S41.E05:The Strategist or the Loyalist

[30 Helens]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think diversity or casting is to blame for any issues with the season so far.

41 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree the issue with this season isn't about diversity at all,

Please allow me to clarify that I was not complaining about actual diversity, or saying that diversity is the reason I’m not enjoying this cast. I was joking that the casting department selected a group of disparately unlikeable people because they misunderstood the definition of diversity. A joke that, apparently, did not land. (In summary: Diversity is good!)

I will agree that that the main problem is probably not the cast, but the way they’re being portrayed— or not portrayed, in some cases. While there are always those invisible people who pop up here and there, causing everyone to say “who’s that?” or “there’s a Kelly?”, it seems the population of Whoville is unusually large this year.  Of the more visible cast members, I also feel we’re getting more of a one-dimensional edit than in seasons past.

The decision to focus on twists and advantages rather than character and relationships was not a good one.

 

[eskimo]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Genie has to be possibly one of the dumbest and most naive contestants to ever play the game of Survivor.  At the start of the episode, she's sitting pretty and feeling so good about herself because Shan chose to keep her over JD.  She's gushing about how strong and tight the three of them are and she feels good about it.  Did it not occur to her that if they lost the next immunity challenge, that one of them would be going home?

Obviously not, because when she finds an idol, she immediately goes and tells her competitors about it.  Who then promptly go and backstab her and take it for themselves, even though they all agreed they wouldn't take it.  Then Ricard makes up something about how they were just going to "fake say" the phrase to see if anyone else says their magic phrase.  

I thought Shan had said something to Ricard about how she had to be the one to take the Beware Advantage in case she lost her vote because then Ricard would have to vote Genie off and Shan had promised Genie that she would never write her name down.  Well, I guess Shan decided to write her name down after all?

I am assuming that Shan wins the game.  The editing is so obvious, there are certain seasons where the focus is so much on one person and that person is the narrator for the season.  Tony Vlachos in his first appearance.  Adam Klein.  This season it's Shan.  We already heard her explain her stupid humming twice.  This episode, they turned the humming into actual background music.  She talked about her parent's divorce and having to choose a parent.  She talked about her mom dying (or getting in drugs, or something).  She talked about her rough life and bad crowd and how she found her new life as a pastor.  I think we know way way way more about her than about all of the remaining contestants combined.  I know that Deshawn is in medical school, Danny is a former NFL player, and Tiffany is some kind of teacher or counselor.  But apart from that, I don't think I could tell you a single thing about any of the others.

 

I hate when people go through other people's things.  Of course Xander and Evvie are discussing how Xander left his idol in his bag, just as Lianna and Tiffany are going through his bag.  

The Beware Advantage is a huge bust because at this point, shouldn't everyone know exactly who has the newly activated Idols?  All of Yellow knows Xander has it and they all know that it is active, and they know the other phrases so they know who on the other tribes have them.  Obviously Shan and Rickard know exactly who has them.  Naseer knows.  Deshawn should know, because Evvie told him about the phrases (I think).  If Deshawn knows, then Danny and Sydney know.  So basically, the only people in the game who are possibly clueless are the invisible Erika and Heather.

And because everyone blabbed, now Lianna can just steal someone's idol with her ship's wheel advantage?  I wasn't clear, does this have to get asked at Tribal?  If she steals someone's Idol out in the open in front of everyone, won't everyone know she has it and target her next round?  Even if not in the open, won't the person who got it stolen tell others and get everyone to target her?  This doesn't seem that great.

There have been so many convoluted idols and advantages that I have been getting a little confused.  So I think this is an accurate summary of idols and advantages:

Yellow

Xander - Activated Idol (beware advantage), Steal-a-vote (captain's wheel #1)

Lianna - Take someone's Idol or Advantage (captain's wheel #4)

Green

Shan - Activated Idol (beware advantage), Steal-a-vote (from JD from captain's wheel #1)

Blue

Naseer - Activated Idol (beware advantage)

Deshawn - Steal-a-vote (captain's wheel #2)

 

Brad also had a Steal-a-vote from the captain's wheel from the nighttime sneak away and choose tarp or steal, but that one is gone for good I would assume.

I agree the issue with this season isn't about diversity at all, there are just as many gunners and just as many dumb people and just as many invisible people as in past seasons.  I think the problem is that this season has spent so much time focusing on advantages  that there isn't much time left for anything else.

Are they steal-a-votes or just extra votes?  I thought they were just extra votes. 

[LadyChatts]

5 minutes ago, eskimo said:

Are they steal-a-votes or just extra votes?  I thought they were just extra votes. 

I think it varies.  Brad had a steal-a-vote, Xander, J.D., and I think Deshawn got extra votes.

[blackwing]

9 minutes ago, eskimo said:

Are they steal-a-votes or just extra votes?  I thought they were just extra votes. 

Ah I think you are right.  Sorry.  I went back and edited.  Xander and Deshawn and Shan (or Rickard if he refused to give it back) have extra votes.  Brad was the one who had the steal-a-vote, now presumably dead.

Edited October 21, 2021 by blackwing

[Tachi Rocinante]

I can't believe Shan is a "preacher".  She's shady as fuck.  I have a sneaking suspicion her "church" is one of those that guilts you into giving, and then grabs you by the ankles and dumps out your pockets as you leave just to be sure.

[blackwing]

2 minutes ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

I can't believe Shan is a "preacher".  She's shady as fuck.  I have a sneaking suspicion her "church" is one of those that guilts you into giving, and then grabs you by the ankles and dumps out your pockets as you leave just to be sure.

I wonder how Genie felt watching this episode air last night.  She must feel like the world's biggest fool.  Not only is Shan shady, but I think she's one of the bigger bullies we have seen on Survivor in recent years.  When was the last time there was a clear example of a bully on this show?  And not just one time, but someone who consistently bullies their way through the game?

I thought it was interesting that Shan bullied JD into giving her his extra vote advantage.  She guilt tripped him by saying he had to trust her and that he had to give it to her otherwise she wouldn't trust him.  Then the same scenario happened in reverse to her with Rickard, and when he pointed out to her that it was the exact same thing she did to JD and she didn't have an issue with it then but did now.

She was a bully to Genie when she screamed about "shutting this down RIGHT NOW" and telling her that she wasn't Brad's #1 ally.  Then she made Genie feel like she was her #1, even though Genie obviously knew (and said so later on at tribal) that Rickard and Shan have been tight since the beginning.   She promises to Genie that nobody will claim the Beware Advantage.  Then immediately turns around and goes back on her word.  Then she and Rickard devise a way to activate her idol by claiming they are just going to flush out who else has it.  She gets Rickard to do the dirty work and lie to Genie about this.  Was Genie not suspicious at all?  

Then she said that she and Rickard had to get Genie to think that each wanted to save her.  Shan and Rickard are so manipulative and so sleazy.  I get this is the game, but it still seemed very two-faced.

I am curious if Genie has commented about any of this in a boot interview.  I also wonder if she knows she was cast as cannon fodder, basically to check all of the casting directors quota boxes.  Older.  Overweight.  Asian.  Lesbian.  The casting director must have been so excited that Genie represented a "normal looking person" (as opposed to the young buff white guys and hot young white girls that is always cast) and was also Asian and gay to boot.  Too bad she had absolutely no idea how to play the game.

[himela]

Just name this season "Shan's season" and get it over with. Another boring winner. And we are only on episode 5 lol. Just let someone else speak for a change! Poor purple Heather and purple Erika :(

[LadyChatts]

I'm not ready to crown Shan the winner yet.  Only because we haven't seen her have to do anything outside of her own tribe.  And, while I think she has played a good game so far, she did have an upper hand in having a majority on her dwindling tribe numbers.  She's tight with Ricard, Brad thought he could trust her, J.D. thought he could trust her, and while it didn't matter from a numbers perspective, Genie thought she could trust her.  She did good in getting J.D. to trust her enough to give her his advantage (twice).  Really, that's about the only thing I can say she's done well. 

I do wonder if there will be trust issues with her and Ricard going forward.  But anyway, Shan's been in the majority in her tribe the whole time, and anyone she burned is gone and out of the game.  The only one she has to worry about is Ricard.  I don't know that alliances at the other tribes are super tight, with maybe the exception of Deshawn/Danny/Sydney.  I'm not exactly sure the dynamic of Yase anymore.  But Shan may not be calling the shots or be able to work her magic if she makes the merge and gets in a bigger group.

[DEL901]

Shan got the result she wanted, but at what cost?  Ricard has had his eyes opened and will ditch her as soon as it is in his best interests…. After all, he is the strategist.  

[MerBearHou]

Once the merge happens, I hope Ricard spills the beans on the conniver that Shan is and she gets booted ASAP.  If she wins, this will be a horrible season.  Shan = Shady AF is right.  Preacher?  Give me a break.  And if again I hear that blasted stupid tune she hums and thinks is so cute, I'll barf.

Edited October 21, 2021 by MerBearHou

[ProfCrash]

People dislike Shan because she is playing the game and adapts her approach based on who she is approaching? Just checking.

I am fine with her approach. I don't think she has been all that smooth or consistent in maintaining her cool. I think her blow up with Genie was unnecessary and could have hurt her. I was surprised at how hard she pursued Ricard and the advantage. She should have let that go right away. At least now she knows that she cannot push Ricard to do what she wants. She will need a different approach for him.

I liked that she reached out to Liana. Her message about Ricard was perfect.

I don't think that Ricard is the strategist. Shan has clearly been seeing the game and laying a multitude of plans. She has done a better job of convincing other people to work with her and trust her in a way that Ricard could not. I don't doubt that Ricard and Shan are working together but I don't think for a second that Ricard is the Stephan of this team.

Of the people we have seen actively playing the game, Naseer, Evvie and Shan are positioning themselves well. Nasser is not a part of the core alliance but Danny and DeShawn are talking to Nasser and trying to bring him in. Nasser might not believe in their plan but he is a part of the conversation. And Nasser is smart enough to see that their inclusion might not be good for him. His social game is not good but he has good instincts and seems to be liked enough even if he is not tied too many folks on his Tribe.

Evvie is working two different alliances and has that connection to DeShawn. Her biggest hurdle if Tiffany. I want to believe that Evvie is smart enough to replace Tiffany with another person.

Shan has herself well positioned with Liana and seems to be good at reading the room.

Danny and DeShawn could be interesting to watch. They really have not been able to show how good they are at the game. They have won enough that they have not had to test their alliance. Nasser and Ericka are the easiest to vote out but what happens after that. We just don't know enough about what is happening with the Blue Tribe to know how things might play out. Sydney is an unknown and so is the blond 52 year old whose name I cannot remember. Nasser is the only member of that tribe that I feel like I have a clue about.

Anyway, Shan is playing the game and she is playing it well. I am not so certain that they would have won more challenges if they had changed the pattern of who they voted out. I am not thrilled with her outbursts but I don't have a problem with her manipulating people. That is a part of the game.

[RedbirdNelly]

my favorite part of the episode was Naseer talking about his kid hiding immunity idols in his backyard. That was adorable. 

Other favorite part was Ricard saying he and Shan were running the game. Like others have already noted, my husband and I said out loud "you are not running the game; you are running a tribe of 3 people." 

[seacliffsal]

I have so many unpopular opinions... First of all, I love Naseer's enthusiasm and refusal to throw the challenges.  It seems like he pretty much, again, won the challenge on his own and he is so gleeful!  The story about learning English while watching Survivor and his daughter training him to find idols are just so endearing.  His social game is not great and he looks like he is trusting the wrong people on his tribe.  But, at this point, I find him very entertaining and likable.  

Also, I don't necessarily think Genie is "too nice" for survivor.  I think she just didn't really know how to play and didn't even play attention to her tribe's dynamics.  Why in the world would she share the idol news?  I guess she could have really been affected by Shan's interactions with her (and JD) and didn't want to be a recipient of another outburst.

I really don't like the prolonged looks at the contestants' lives outside of the game.  Don't need photos of Shan and her mom, her church, etc. (and she stated that she found her higher power-no reference to God so I don't know what kind of church it is).  I feel like these "real life glimpses" combined with all of the advantages just take too much time away from what I want to see-interactions, camp life, etc.

I also don't understand why DeShawn and Danny want to throw a challenge so much.  Play the social game-keep everyone tight and if there's a merge they will have the numbers.  Now, if some of the tribemates realize they are disliked then, yes, they may join others but Rob showed how important it is for each member of the tribe to feel valued and a part of the alliance.

[meep.meep]

Wasn't this the perfect time for Genie to play the Shot in the Dark?  She clearly could see that both of the others were shady.

Along the same lines, why didn't Lauraina  (?) just trot up to Xander and get his idol/advantage?  Why do people keep burying their idols?  Can't someone else find them

The editors totally gave Ricard a "hero" camera shot during the IC.  I don't think there's been a clearer one since Earl.  Hmmmmm....

[Guest]

Just now, meep.meep said:

The editors totally gave Ricard a "hero" camera shot during the IC.  I don't think there's been a clearer one since Earl.  Hmmmmm....

Except he missed the shot. I think it was just a dramatic effect to make us think he was about to win the challenge, and then...*whiff*

I might have laughed a little...

Edited October 21, 2021 by tracyscott76

[LadyChatts]

Just now, tracyscott76 said:

Except he missed the shot. I think it was just a dramatic effect to make us think he was about to win the challenge, and then...*whiff*

I might have laughed a little...

I usually roll my eyes at the slow-mo during the challenges, but that was actually kind of cool last night.  I knew Green was going to miss, so it made it that much better.

 

7 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Along the same lines, why didn't Lauraina  (?) just trot up to Xander and get his idol/advantage?  Why do people keep burying their idols?  Can't someone else find them

Once a person has an idol it is theirs.  Corinne from S17 and S26 explained that during S26, she and Malcolm found an idol together, but because Malcolm put his hands on it first, it technically belonged to him (which she didn't realize until after the fact).  They probably have that rule in place to prevent just that, people burying or hiding the idols they found and someone else finding it and taking it.

[blackwing]

35 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

People dislike Shan because she is playing the game and adapts her approach based on who she is approaching? Just checking.

I am fine with her approach. I don't think she has been all that smooth or consistent in maintaining her cool. I think her blow up with Genie was unnecessary and could have hurt her. I was surprised at how hard she pursued Ricard and the advantage. She should have let that go right away. At least now she knows that she cannot push Ricard to do what she wants. She will need a different approach for him.

I dislike her because I think she is a manipulative hypocrite.  And when she gets called out on her shit, she turns into the victim.

Brad finds the Beware Advantage and for some reason, chose to tell both Genie and Shan about it.  He also got the Steal a Vote from the midnight Captain's Wheel, and I believe he told Shan about this one as well.  She kept this information to herself (or maybe she shared with Rickard).  At this point in the game, I think Rickard, Brad and JD all thought she was with them.

JD got the extra vote from the Captain's Wheel.  He didn't hide it so well, she saw it.  She immediately confronts him about it and she is angry that he didn't trust in her.  She makes him feel bad about it.  Then she demands that he give her the extra vote as a show of trust.  He does.

Brad goes home.  Genie feels betrayed and says something.  Shan immediately and angrily retorts "I'm shutting this down RIGHT NOW" and proceeds to tell Genie that she wasn't Brad's #1, she herself was.  Genie looks defeated and looked like she would crawl into a hole in the sand if she could.

JD speaks up.  "Hold on a second, why did you give me such a hard time about not telling you about my extra vote when you did the exact same thing by not telling me about Brad's advantage?"  She almost instantly retorted with "That's different.  This was your advantage.  That was his advantage.  It wasn't my secret to tell."  The fact that she responded so instantly tells me that she's used to situations like this where she gets called out but always has a justification for her actions.

Later that episode, she bullies JD into giving her his extra vote, again, as a continued show of trust.  She tells him he has to do this.  He agrees and gives it to her.

This episode, she has the extra vote she bullied from JD.  She gives it to Rickard and makes it clear that she isn't giving it to him, she is only having him hold it, and if she gets voted out by him that night, it is not his.  Her idol gets activated at the immunity challenge.  She asks Rickard for the extra vote back.  He refuses and says she has to trust him.  She immediately starts confronting him about it, saying it is hers, etc.  He points out that she did the exact same thing to JD.  

She is a bully who just talks her way over every situation in a manner that is most advantageous to her.  That's why I don't like her.  I agree that she is playing the game, but I think she is playing in a very distasteful and disagreeable way.  I hate bullies.

12 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

Except he missed the shot. I think it was just a dramatic effect to make us think he was about to win the challenge, and then...*whiff*

I might have laughed a little...

It was weird because usually the upswell of music indicates that someone is about to win the challenge.  But with him, I think he still had two targets left.  So not sure what the point was, other than to make him look like a fool when it aired on TV.  I laughed as well.

At this point, the people I truly dislike in order are 1) Shan, 2) Rickard, 3) Tiffany, 4) Sydney.  I'd be fine with anyone else winning at this point.  Which probably means that Shan, Rickard and Sydney are in the final 3.  Le sigh.

[PaperTree]

24 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Wasn't this the perfect time for Genie to play the Shot in the Dark?  She clearly could see that both of the others were shady.

Along the same lines, why didn't Lauraina  (?) just trot up to Xander and get his idol/advantage? 

Would the Shot in the Dark been 1 out of 3 instead of the original 1 out of 6?  If so, she should have tried it.

I missed the details, but can she only use her steal thingy at Tribal Council?

[Hera]

Danny: "I'm worried about the number of men who have been eliminated so far."
Also Danny: "I don't want to work with Naseer (but I have to for the time being)."

I do agree with the people who are upset that the editing has been so focussed on a few players, although the number is higher than on a lot of other seasons. Shan's getting a lot of attention right now because her tribe is the one going to tribal council and she and Ricard appear to be the ones who decide who gets voted out on that tribe. But I feel like I have a good handle on Yase, the yellow tribe as well. Really, the only seriously underedited people are the women on the blue tribe (although the editors seem keen to show us Sydney at least once an episode). I still don't understand why the men on that tribe are so afraid of Erika, but this is the second week in a row that they've talked about it.

19 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

The biggest highlight tonight was Ricard and Shan fighting at camp over J.D.'s advantage.

I liked that too. I thought it showed a really interesting dynamic—they were each so open about feeling uncomfortable that the other person wanted to hold the advantage. Presumably they've re-established trust now that they've voted out Genie, but I thought it was revealing in terms of showing the strengths and the potential weakness of their bond. Also, when Shan was off with Liana and Ricard told Genie that he felt like Shan was the one getting credit for strategy he had come up with, I got the sense that was something that was genuinely bothering him, and not just a plausible reason he invented for Genie's benefit about why he'd be willing to vote out Shan.

39 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

Would the Shot in the Dark been 1 out of 3 instead of the original 1 out of 6?  If so, she should have tried it.

My understanding is that it still would be 1 out of 6, since the idea is that they're literally rolling a die. I don't think it has anything to do with the number of people left in the game.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

Wasn't this the perfect time for Genie to play the Shot in the Dark?  She clearly could see that both of the others were shady.

Because Shot in the Dark means giving up your vote, the only time it's worth playing is when you are essentially 100 percent sure that you're the target. (It's also unclear to me if a player could take a Shot in the Dark every tribal if they wanted to or if it is a one-shot deal).

Had Genie played Shot in the Dark, she would have had a 17 percent chance of surviving. It would be very curious to see what would have happened then in various scenarios. If both Shan and Ricard voted Genie, there presumably would be a rock draw to see which of them would stay (as on the revote obviously they would tie by writing each other's name). That would have been funny. If one of them voted for Genie and the other voted Shan/Ricard, then Shan/Ricard would be gone. 

But in the 83 percent likelihood that she didn't get rando immunity, she would almost certainly be gone. At best, it would be a 1-1 vote with Shan and Ricard going after each other. I would think on revoting they would then go for Genie for sure. 

It seems in the abstract to hope that Shan sees Ricard's shadiness and rewards Genie's loyalty or that Ricard thought it was better to backstab Shan. Unfortunately for Genie, though Ricard already seems bothered by the notion that Shan is getting credit for their moves (by who?), he doesn't yet have Big Move Fever. After the merge, he likely will get a terminal case.

59 minutes ago, PaperTree said:

I missed the details, but can she only use her steal thingy at Tribal Council?

I am assuming that she can use the steal an advantage/idol anytime she wants, up to and including at a Tribal Council.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Did the rules change because people keep talking about stealing someone else's idol/advantage and that was never allowed before if I recall correctly. Going into someone's bag to see what they have is reprehensible but permitted but if they actually found the idol/advantage they couldn't just appropriate it.  And that advantage/idol(?) last night was not stolen directly, she was cleverly talked into replacing it (an option given to avoid getting a possible disadvantage) and then once it was replaced unopened it was taken. I do agree though that it should be in the rules that players should be forbidden from rifling other player's bags.

Shan can go any time. Her ridiculous attempt to get Ricard to give her his advantage for the exact same reasons she plied JD with (I promise to give it back, you can trust me) and insisting that Ricard needed to prove trust to her but she was displaying a lack of trust in him was so transparent. Ricard is too smart to fall for it, thankfully.

I'll miss Genie's good natured attitude even if she was naive. And I hope Naseer goes far. He's my favorite person so far.

[Nashville]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For all of those who complain about reality show players "mugging" for the camera: I give you . . . Tiffany.

Tiffany’s constant exaggerated eyerolls had me wishing for a time-warping 2x4.

 

 

[fishcakes]

15 minutes ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Did the rules change because people keep talking about stealing someone else's idol/advantage and that was never allowed before if I recall correctly.

It's still not allowed in general, but Liana got an advantage that lets her ask someone if they have an idol or advantage, requires them to tell the truth about it, and if they have one, they have to give it to her. I think this has to happen at a tribal council, but I'm not sure about that part. It would have been more interesting if she didn't know who had an advantage, but she knows about Xander's idol and extra vote and she's seen the note that came with Xander's idol, so unless she's dim, she's figured out that Shan and Naseer also have idols.

[Vikitty]

Ugh, another of my favourites gone. I can't stand Shan or Ricard and if either win I am going to be pretty choked. I'm optimistic that Shan will lose her footing when they merge and she's no longer running the tribe. 

Genie was too honest and trusting for this game. 

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

It's still not allowed in general, but Liana got an advantage that lets her ask someone if they have an idol or advantage, requires them to tell the truth about it, and if they have one, they have to give it to her. I think this has to happen at a tribal council, but I'm not sure about that part. It would have been more interesting if she didn't know who had an advantage, but she knows about Xander's idol and extra vote and she's seen the note that came with Xander's idol, so unless she's dim, she's figured out that Shan and Naseer also have idols.

I think it does have to be stolen at tribal council (because how else could it be enforced)? This actually makes it a bit dangerous. If you steal an advantage at tribal, everyone will know that you then have that advantage. So you make yourself a target and make the advantage/idol less useful. Plus, depending on who you steal from you may make yourself look bad.

[LanceM]

Yeah I would apply the brakes to the Shan is winning becuase she is getting so much airtime theory. Her tribe has lost 4 times. The reason why we know so much about her and the tribe dynamics on that tribe is because they keep losing.  They have to focus more on the losing tribe

That being said I wouldn't mind seeing her win as I do enjoy a manipulativee female villain

Edited October 22, 2021 by LanceM

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, himela said:

Just name this season "Shan's season" and get it over with. Another boring winner.

I am nervously hopeful we are being set up for some delicious revenge. Perhaps with a huge swelling orchestra playing Shan's theme song like its the 1812 Overture, as she plots something nasty and beams with delight - before being blindsided. While Ricard experiences a slow and painful downfall, at the bottom of the social alliance, before he scrabbles with his fingernails over the pit of doom and goes home, head down.

[bankerchick]

I guess it says something about this season that I recorded the show as usual, and never even thought about it until dinnertime today.  

Since the yellow team knew how the Beware Advantage worked, it was easy to say they could always come back for the idol later.  Aside from blindsiding Genie, there is also the fact that by not actually picking up the idol, nobody had to abstain from voting in the case where not all 3 teams said the phrase.  I realize Ricard came up with a plausible way of getting the phrase out there just in case, but that brings up another question:  if they had not opened the idol but the other two teams used the phrase, would they be able to then use their team phrase (assuming they could remember what it was) and garner the advantage, without having actually opened it up?  And if so, who gets it?  The person who actually said the words?

 

[ZeeEnnui]

On 10/20/2021 at 7:03 PM, vb68 said:

That's what I didn't get at all.  She even stated that it rightfully belonged to her.  Really?  I don't think so. Shan seems to think she's entitled to all the advantages.  That's one of the big reasons she's really hard to like.  

Her hypocrisy is eye-rolling, but unsurprising coming from a youth pastor. Can't stand her, and loathe that she's getting a winner edit (music and all). 

Let's cut all the bullshit twists, and Jeff's hair next season. 

Genie, you dumb. That is all. 

What is with everyone just handing over their advantages on the green team. You want to build trust? Stand in a circle and hold a trust fall exercise (Ricard will let you fall every time). You want to hold onto your twist of the week? Keep your mouth shut, and your advantages locked up tight. It's not that hard, people. 

[himela]

6 hours ago, violet and green said:

I am nervously hopeful we are being set up for some delicious revenge. Perhaps with a huge swelling orchestra playing Shan's theme song like its the 1812 Overture, as she plots something nasty and beams with delight - before being blindsided. While Ricard experiences a slow and painful downfall, at the bottom of the social alliance, before he scrabbles with his fingernails over the pit of doom and goes home, head down.

This sounds nice but I don't think they'd have created all this story and the orchestra etc just to plan her downfall. She wins and it will be just like Denise winning.

[violet and green]

8 minutes ago, himela said:

This sounds nice but I don't think they'd have created all this story and the orchestra etc just to plan her downfall. She wins and it will be just like Denise winning.

Denise had a lot of grit in challenges and in endurance. So, not like Denise. But I seem to recall you being sure some other irritant in the early edits of previous season would definitely win, and they didn't, so hope your pessimism is misplaced this time, also.

[himela]

15 minutes ago, violet and green said:

Denise had a lot of grit in challenges and in endurance. So, not like Denise. But I seem to recall you being sure some other irritant in the early edits of previous season would definitely win, and they didn't, so hope your pessimism is misplaced this time, also.

Haha I hope so too :)

[SVNBob]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:06 PM, LadyChatts said:

I think Liana's advantage is kind of unfair, because there's no challenge to it.  She already knows who has an idol and an advantage, so unless Xander gives them to someone else for some unknown reason, there's no risk to her.  Guessing the show didn't think that one through.

Technically, she should know where all 3 idols are.  She read the clue for herself when went through Xander's bag; she knows the 3 phrases.  And she heard them all at that IC.  She also confirmed with Shantel that she had the one idol.

On 10/20/2021 at 9:14 PM, ProfCrash said:

I think I love that Naesser (sp) found the idol. I am hoping that he didn't tell anyone that he found it. Please be the only smart one. Pretty please. 

Even if he doesn't say a word, people already know he has it.

On 10/20/2021 at 11:00 PM, mertensia said:

Shan gives off grifter vibes. I'm not sure why.

She went from organized crime to organized religion.  Makes sense to me.

 

On 10/21/2021 at 12:25 AM, Tdoc72 said:

It’s not the show’s fault that everyone didn’t keep their traps shut about having the idol.

It's less about people sharing they have the idol, and more about them sharing the code phrases.  By my reckoning, 7 of the 12 players know where all the idols are (All of Yellow and Green plus Naseer), with an 8th (Deshawn) having at least suspicions.  And it's all because Xander and Brad shared their clues with other members of their tribes, and those people told other people.  It's Survivor Idol Telephone.

 

17 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

DeShawn should know who has the three idols because Evvie told him about Xander's idol. The three phrases are strange enough that they stand out. We heard Brad and Genie referencing Xander's butterfly statement when Brad found the idol. DeShawn should recognize that conversation as awkward and Nasser's statement was just as strange.

Evvie told Deshawn about the butterflies.  She might also have mentioned the other two phrases to him, but neither idol had been found for a while, and Deshawn has been thinking about a more pressing matter in trying to throw challenges.

That said, I still maintain that the goat phrase was the easiest to work in.  Naseer basically used it in appropriate context as a follow-up to the back-and-forth between Shantel, Ricard, and Xander.

 

17 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

There was a 3-person tribal in season 25 Philippines as Denise and Malcolm were the last ones remaining from their tribe.

Bobby Jon and Stephanie wave hello from Ulong tribe in Palau.

 

16 hours ago, blackwing said:

There have been so many convoluted idols and advantages that I have been getting a little confused.  So I think this is an accurate summary of idols and advantages:

Yellow

Xander - Activated Idol (beware advantage), Extra vote (captain's wheel #1)

Lianna - Take someone's Idol or Advantage (captain's wheel #4)

Green

Shan - Activated Idol (beware advantage), Extra vote (from JD from captain's wheel #1)

Blue

Naseer - Activated Idol (beware advantage)

Deshawn - Extra vote (captain's wheel #2)

Almost correct.  Ricard currently holds the Extra Vote on Green.  That's how I have it on the Tracker, at least.

[BK1978]

 

On 10/20/2021 at 10:14 PM, ProfCrash said:

I think I love that Naesser (sp) found the idol. I am hoping that he didn't tell anyone that he found it. Please be the only smart one. Pretty please.

 

 

Right now Naesser is by far and away my favorite player and him finding the Idol bought a smile to my face.

On 10/20/2021 at 10:17 PM, North of Eden said:

There was I supppose a slender hope that  I had that Shan would buy a clue that when someone renegs on their word and doesn't give back something you entrusted to them sooner or later maybe not at that tribal council but somewhere down the line Prick-ard the narcissist will deliver a scorpion's sting and betray you.

The only thing of any real interest was Shan and Lianna launching their own mini version of The Cookout but with not enough Chefs to have any real juice to affect the game. But I was happy to see my favorite Lianna get more airtime and didn't care for the way Xander seemed to want to exclude her from the rest of the tribe.

Prick-ard is a hilarious nickname and very fitting.

I don't need to see another racist alliance that wants to vote out anyone who does not look like them and then have people be like, "Oh but if people are historically oppressed, they have the right to be racist and you're wrong if you disagree with that."  Granted those type of alliances tend to be the realm of Big Brother (It happens nearly every damn season on that show or at least it seems like it does.) more than any other show. 

I would like to watch a show without discriminatory alliances.  I don't want to see any all-women alliances, all-men alliances, all-LGBT alliances, all-white folks alliances, all-black folks alliances, all-Asian folks alliances...you get my drift.  They are all equally bad in my opinion and not fun to watch.

Also, I would like to make an addendum.  If an alliance like that happens organically I am less against it (But still find them to be stupid, because you could be excluding someone who might benefit your game but if you don't give them the opportunity to show you then you will never know.).  I am talking about alliances that are specifically formed to get rid of anyone who does not look like them or does not share the same genitals as them or whatever.

15 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

I can't believe Shan is a "preacher".  She's shady as fuck.  I have a sneaking suspicion her "church" is one of those that guilts you into giving, and then grabs you by the ankles and dumps out your pockets as you leave just to be sure.

Have you met any preachers?😃 

The guy that was the head priest of my church, when I was a little kid, had perjury charges brought against him due to his testimony in the the Claus von Bülow trial, stole hundred of thousands of dollars from the church.  That is not even the worst stuff this guy did, that is just the stuff that I could put on this site.  This guy was a depraved piece of garbage. 

So yeah, while I understand a lot of preachers/priests are good, god fearing people.  There are also a good amount who are total degenerates (Like Jim Jones).

13 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I really don't like the prolonged looks at the contestants' lives outside of the game.  Don't need photos of Shan and her mom, her church, etc. (and she stated that she found her higher power-no reference to God so I don't know what kind of church it is).  I feel like these "real life glimpses" combined with all of the advantages just take too much time away from what I want to see-interactions, camp life, etc.

 

Well if you don't like these prolonged looks into contestants' lives, then I suggest you stay away from Australian Survivor.  What we see on this current version of American Survivor is nothing compared to the mini-documentaries they give on every contestant they have on that show.  I am not even joking here, they will have a six minute segment talking about the life of a contestant in the middle of the damn episode, it is so annoying.

That being said, coming from a very good Australian Survivor season, with two excellent players in the final two, to this current season of our Survivor is a major letdown.  This season is just not good and as others have said there are far too many advantages in this game.  I don't think these advantages add to the game, I think they detract from the game.

Edited October 22, 2021 by BK1978
Just fixing some typos. Or many typos.

[Kenzie]

41 minutes ago, BK1978 said:

Australian Survivor

I hear so much positive chatter about Survivor Australia but have no idea where to find it. Full episodes are not available on YouTube.

Can you share what cable channel in the U.S. carries it?

[himela]

1 hour ago, Kenzie said:

I hear so much positive chatter about Survivor Australia but have no idea where to find it. Full episodes are not available on YouTube.

Can you share what cable channel in the U.S. carries it?

Please check your pms :)

[cowgirlwen]

4 hours ago, Kenzie said:

I hear so much positive chatter about Survivor Australia but have no idea where to find it. Full episodes are not available on YouTube.

Can you share what cable channel in the U.S. carries it?

Yes, I've been wondering that too!  Please share!

[AncientNewbie]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:25 PM, GenerationX said:

Coming soon to Tribal Council:  Legal Counsel.  Each player will be assigned a lawyer to help interpret the combinations and permutations of which advantage takes precedence in a given vote.

Finally I'll get to use my degree and love of Survivor together...

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, SVNBob said:

It's less about people sharing they have the idol, and more about them sharing the code phrases.  By my reckoning, 7 of the 12 players know where all the idols are (All of Yellow and Green plus Naseer), with an 8th (Deshawn) having at least suspicions.  And it's all because Xander and Brad shared their clues with other members of their tribes, and those people told other people.  It's Survivor Idol Telephone.

Evvie told Deshawn about the butterflies.  She might also have mentioned the other two phrases to him, but neither idol had been found for a while, and Deshawn has been thinking about a more pressing matter in trying to throw challenges.

That said, I still maintain that the goat phrase was the easiest to work in.  Naseer basically used it in appropriate context as a follow-up to the back-and-forth between Shantel, Ricard, and Xander.

The butterflies phrase was said three times.  Something about broccoli being little trees was said twice (and by two different people).  Then Naseer chimes in with this ridiculous thing about being as confused as a goat on astroturf.  Naseer is an awkward person who hasn't been shown to have a joking personality, so it was obviously completely out of place.  He has painted himself as this fish out of water that doesn't speak English very well... I wonder if he even knows what astroturf is.  I would think it's out of place just because I haven't heard anyone call it "Astroturf" in a long time... nowadays it's just "turf" or "synthetic turf" when I hear people talking about it.  Maybe it's a regional thing.

Deshawn is in medical school so he can't be stupid (unlike, say, Genie or Tiffany).  Evvie told him about the butterflies phrase and I am pretty sure she told him that two other people had to say their phrases.  I am sure he recognised the broccoli and astroturf as magic phrases.  Deshawn knows who has the idols.  And I am sure he told Danny.  And likely Sydney.  I think the only two players who possibly do not know about the Idols and who has them are Erika and Heather.  But we would never know, since they almost never speak.

[SG429]

6 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Well if you don't like these prolonged looks into contestants' lives, then I suggest you stay away from Australian Survivor.  What we see on this current version of American Survivor is nothing compared to the mini-documentaries they give on every contestant they have on that show.  I am not even joking here, they will have a six minute segment talking about the life of a contestant in the middle of the damn episode, it is so annoying.

They also went 48 days in the outback and about twice as many eps running 2-3x per week, so plenty of time for Up Close and Personals.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, Kenzie said:

I hear so much positive chatter about Survivor Australia but have no idea where to find it. Full episodes are not available on YouTube.

Can you share what cable channel in the U.S. carries it?

If you want to watch it legally in the US, Paramount+ has seasons 4-6.

[Birnam Wood]

I'd like to congratulate Production on their purchase of the Slo-Mo Beauty Shot 3000, which made quite the debut in this episode.

Also, I have no problem with the game that anyone is playing, but there was a shot where Ricard looked exactly like Lucifer, and now I can't unsee it. This does cause me to wonder exactly what kind of church Shan is affiliated with...

[30 Helens]

Exit interview with Genie: https://ew.com/tv/survivor-41-genie-chen-interview/

Quote

Actually, my favorite day was the worst day, when I got voted out… I was getting food for us and felt like Ozzy. I came up with a fish and I cheered, and it was the tiniest little fish, but I felt like it was, you know, a giant ahi tuna. That was a great moment for me because I didn't think I'd be somebody who could do that.

And when I was watching last night, I was like, "Oh man, I hope they show that I get three fish!" But no, they didn't. What they show is Sydney getting like nine fish. I'm like, "Aw, man, really?" But I get it. Maybe Sydney looks way better getting fish than I do. But still, they could have showed me a little bit with a fish, you know?

Aw. I would have preferred to see Genie fishing, too. 

Yes, she played terribly and yes, she was too naive, but I can’t really fault her for thinking Shan would keep her over Ricard. I would never keep Ricard. He’s practically the dictionary definition of untrustworthy, and who wants to take that to a merge?

[candall]

On 10/20/2021 at 9:14 PM, ProfCrash said:

[...]I also loved that Shan was at a loss as to why ricard wouldn't give her back the advantage. Of course he wanted to keep it insurance and Shan was surprised by that. I like that Ricard is just like "Nope" and there wasn't anything Shan was able to do about it.  [,,,]

 

Same.  This was so enjoyable to me, I backed it up and watched it again.

 

Shan:  I'd feel better if I held onto the paper.

Shan:  If I had it, I'd know for sure that we're a team.

Shan:  You don't need to worry about giving me the advantage.

Shan:  I won't feel safe unless you give it to me.

Shan:  Are you refusing to give it to me????

Me:  <hahahahahahaha>

 

[lasu]

So, Heather

has to be the long lost mother of The Challenge's Evelyn, correct?

 

[Lantern7]

10 minutes ago, lasu said:

So, Heather

has to be the long lost mother of The Challenge's Evelyn, correct?

 

What is Heather’s deal? Like I said, I’m not paying attention. I remember Evelyn, though, and not fondly. Maybe Heather just digs visors.

Small upside from the latest episode: no whispering among the players. That would’ve been funny if it happened.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

If I were playing the next season of Survivor after this one was shown, I'd make it a point to utter some weird phrase out loud at the beginning of a challenge just to see if everyone assumed I had something.

Shan doesn't bug me the way she bugs some. Yes, she's being underhanded and devious, but so what? It's a game. I find Ricard's unearned arrogance way more off-putting.

Totally agree with Naseer's refusing to throw a challenge: as someone who learned to speak English partly from watching the show, he knows how often that strategy has backfired.

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I think it does have to be stolen at tribal council (because how else could it be enforced)?

Production is around at all times, and if the actual sheet is shown to the player, they will know that they can't get away with lying. It might take a 4th wall break and a reshoot for production to say "Cut the shit, Naseer, you have a HII. You're going to have to give it to her. Now let's take it from the top and pretend like we're not here. Act natural." 

I didn't freeze-frame the letter, but I don't recall anything saying "You can only use this at TC."

[watch2much]

I find I can tolerate Ricard's type of villain more than I can Shan's.  Yes, he fed Genie lies and she believed him, but she knew he was devious.  Shan seems to really get off on it.  she seems to enjoy doing it.  yet, she's aghast when someone says something contrary or, in Ricard's case, doesn't do what she wants.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Shan doesn't bug me the way she bugs some. Yes, she's being underhanded and devious, but so what? It's a game. I find Ricard's unearned arrogance way more off-putting.

I have enough hate in my heart for both of them lol.