S41.E05:The Strategist or the Loyalist

[Whimsy]

Quote

The 3 members of Ua compete in the immunity challenge to try to avoid shrinking further. Friendships are put to the test when castaways from different tribes take a journey together.

Original airdate 10/20/21

[mojoween]

When the challenge started at 8:19 I knew I would hate this episode.  And lo and behold, 30 minutes of yammering fulfilled the prophecy.

Survivor put music to Shan’s ridiculous humming.  I hate it.

Did Shan tell Liana if she’s not there on day 12 to not trust Ricard, because he’s her number one?  Does that not mean what I think it means?

I cannot with Tiffany.

I don’t even want to talk about the new terrible advantage because then I’ll need to check *my* blood pressure.

[Guest]

While I don't particularly care for Shan or Ricard, I did enjoy their tense pre-tribal conversation as the two "villains" try to convince each other they're still working together.

Nice to see Sydney add "mermaid" to her list of self-accolades. Not sure where they're going with her. That was such a random bit to throw in. They had the Danny/Deshawn/Naseer convo to give Blue some air time (back in the basement, Erika and Heather!), so I don't know what the Sydney fishing footage was all about. But I did enjoy it.

I'm also enjoying these "surprise!" flashbacks they're putting in, as seen with Naseer busting out the Astroturf phrase. He's having such a good time...I feel like he's in for disappointment soon.

[LadyChatts]

I think Liana's advantage is kind of unfair, because there's no challenge to it.  She already knows who has an idol and an advantage, so unless Xander gives them to someone else for some unknown reason, there's no risk to her.  Guessing the show didn't think that one through.

Speaking of not thinking things through, I don't know what Genie was thinking.  She knows Ricard/Shan are a tight duo, she was blindsided by them when they voted out Brad, they backstabbed J.D. who thought he was with them, yet she trusts them enough to tell them about the idol (which they then took and were going to trick her), and she doesn't even try her shot in the dark?  

The biggest highlight tonight was Ricard and Shan fighting at camp over J.D.'s advantage.  I did like the bonding scene with Liana and Shan, but Liana loses points with me for going through Xander's stuff.  It shouldn't be allowed.  

Tiffany may be smarter at this game than anyone realizes. 

[vb68]

Never, never run and blab you just found an advantage. and then definitely never just leave it behind unopened for someone else to swipe right behind your back.

Yeah, I know the chances are the Genie probably wouldn't had used it at this tribal anyway, but that just irritated me so very much.

Genie was too nice and trusting for this game.

Edited October 21, 2021 by vb68

[PaperTree]

No Shot in the Dark.  No idols.  No surprises.  Ugh.

[mojoween]

Oh!  Also I love how Sydney was like “they were so surprised when a girl was catching fish” yet we didn’t actually *see* anyone say that, because in no universe do I think Danny, Deshawn or Naseer would ever even think that, let alone say it out loud in the year of our lord 2021.  I don’t even think Ericka or Heather would say it, for that matter.

[ByaNose]

Genie should have used the Shot in the Dark. Just for the fact that there are only three of them is one reason. The other reason being Shan & Richard are a tight duo which Genie said at tribal. She also witnessed them basically blindsiding her other tribe members. She sort of deserves what she got. She’s a nice person but she was playing with/against 2 serious game players. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by ByaNose

[GenerationX]

Random thoughts on episode 5 “Wonder Twin Powers Activate!”:

• The next advantage someone finds will nullify the nonsense phrase advantage by following some Rube Goldberg-esque set of steps
• With yet another rule-heavy advantage thrown into the game “(It’s great to learn ‘cause) Knowledge is Power”, Probst has to be an ISTJ (and a fan of Schoolhouse Rock)
• Naseer is everybody’s little brother who is giddy with excitement that his older brothers are letting him play with them

Coming soon to Tribal Council:  Legal Counsel.  Each player will be assigned a lawyer to help interpret the combinations and permutations of which advantage takes precedence in a given vote.

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Oh!  Also I love how Sydney was like “they were so surprised when a girl was catching fish” yet we didn’t actually *see* anyone say that, because in no universe do I think Danny, Deshawn or Naseer would ever even think that, let alone say it out loud in the year of our lord 2021.  I don’t even think Ericka or Heather would say it, for that matter.

I don't know. All three of those guys seem like pretty nice fellas, but I could see at least one of them saying something like that, even as a clumsy attempt at a compliment. That kind of attitude (and far worse) is still rampant out there in the year of our Lord 2021.

[Michichick]

28 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Did Shan tell Liana if she’s not there on day 12 to not trust Ricard, because he’s her number one?  Does that not mean what I think it means?

Yes, Shan said that because Ricard was her #1 ally in her tribe of three, so if she wasn’t there on day 12 it would mean Ricard had betrayed her and therefore wasn’t trustworthy.

[dizzyd]

After 40 seasons, I’m not sure why people are so stupid with their idols/advantages/knowledge and expect to go far in this game. It irks me more when the stupid ones are likeable and I don’t like the ones conning them. 

That said, I’d be the one telling the conners “fuck that, I’m not falling for that shit” and get voted off immediately anyway. Which is another reason why I could never be on Survivor.

Edited October 21, 2021 by dizzyd

[iMonrey]

It's hard to know who to root for this season. Don’t like Shan, don’t like Ricard. Wanted to like Genie but she’s kinda too dumb. Don’t like Tiffany, don’t like Evvie, don’t like Liana, want to like Xander but he’s kinda too dumb.

I guess Danny and Deshawn are Ok but Ricard and Shan had a good point: nobody on the blue tribe has had to be cutthroat yet. Don’t like Naseer, don't like Sydney. Heather and Erika are just sort of there.

Since Shan talked to Genie first, she should have know Ricard was still with her because he obviously did not tell Genie she had the idol. Shan had a lot of nerve trying to bully Ricard into giving back the advantage since that's the exact same thing she did to JD. Glad he stood his ground, even if I don't particularly like him. At least he's not dumb.

Coming up next . . . another twist! Oh goody, we don't have enough of those. 

[vb68]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Shan had a lot of nerve trying to bully Ricard into giving back the advantage since that's the exact same thing she did to JD.

That's what I didn't get at all.  She even stated that it rightfully belonged to her.  Really?  I don't think so. Shan seems to think she's entitled to all the advantages.  That's one of the big reasons she's really hard to like.

6 hours ago, GenerationX said:

Coming soon to Tribal Council:  Legal Counsel.  Each player will be assigned a lawyer to help interpret the combinations and permutations of which advantage takes precedence in a given vote.

 

This is a fun idea. Knowing the show though, it's easy to see them assigning those roles to Sandra and Rob, and giving those two more chances just to argue back and forth.    

Edited October 21, 2021 by vb68

[ProfCrash]

I think I love that Naesser (sp) found the idol. I am hoping that he didn't tell anyone that he found it. Please be the only smart one. Pretty please. 

I did like how Shan and Ricard worked out the idol saying without making it seem like they had the idol. That was pretty devious and smart. I love that type of play. It was perfect. 

I also loved that Shan was at a loss as to why ricard wouldn't give her back the advantage. Of course he wanted to keep it insurance and Shan was surprised by that. I like that Ricard is just like "Nope" and there wasn't anything Shan was able to do about it. 

I did not like Ricard's play that he comes up with the plan and Shan closes it. Shan seems to have been doing a fair amount of the plotting. And I have no idea who Ricard is trying to convince about his roll because no one is there to hear his argument. It is not final tribal and Genie is not on the jury. Then again we have no idea about that, for all we know there is an island with all the people who have been voted out. It wasn't like they could go on any trips this time around so why not do Redemption Island? 

Xander's attempt at lying was awful. Evvie is my favorite on that Tribe. Tiffany is interesting. I can't decide if she might actually be playing well right now. 

 

[wintrygal]

I kind of long for the days when someone found an Idol, and HID it from everyone else, now they go running back to camp yelling and screaming like they just found the most eggs in an Easter hunt, good gravy, what a bunch of knobs!

Had to laugh when Ricard announced that 'they' were running the whole game, really?  You're in a team of three, well, two now.  Too much Shan, cannot stand her. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by wintrygal

[North of Eden]

It's hard to gin up an interesting episode when  half of it only features three characters and a foregone conclusion. 

There was I supppose a slender hope that  I had that Shan would buy a clue that when someone renegs on their word and doesn't give back something you entrusted to them sooner or later maybe not at that tribal council but somewhere down the line Prick-ard the narcissist will deliver a scorpion's sting and betray you.

Thumbs down to the music editors for buying into creating "theme music" for sneaky Shan. Someone must think its funny...but its not.

Thumbs up to the editors for finally keeping something a secret when Nassir (?) turned out to find the idol clue and props to him for not telling anyone else on his team. 

The only thing of any real interest was Shan and Lianna launching their own mini version of The Cookout but with not enough Chefs to have any real juice to affect the game. But I was happy to see my favorite Lianna get more airtime and didn't care for the way Xander seemed to want to exclude her from the rest of the tribe.

[iMonrey]

For all of those who complain about reality show players "mugging" for the camera: I give you . . . Tiffany.

[DEL901]

I liked Genie as a person, but she wasn’t cut out for the game.  Why on earth did she tell Shan and Ricard about the idol.   

So many players I don’t like.  Shan and Ricard, of course, Sydney and Tiffany.  I like Nasser as a person but not a player.   

[iMonrey]

Quote

I like Nasser as a person but not a player.   

Yeah . . . he just doesn't want to play ball with Danny and Deshawn and I think that's to his detriment. I mean, good on him for playing his own game, but Danny and Deshawn have a legit concern and they can still lose one player and keep the numbers.

[Grizzly]

I don't understand how Shan and Ricard think they are going to rule the game after the merge. The 2 of them will be picked off first. If they even make it that far. Shan has the better chance with Lianna.

[Straycat80]

So now that the three idols/advantages are found and the phrases spoken, how high were the writers who thought up broccoli/goat/butterflies, can the people who found them now vote? But everyone knows who holds the idols now. I don’t like this new system, go back to old way, less confusing IMO. 

Genie was too nice, no shock she got the boot.  If they merge next week I don’t know who I’d root for. I like Xander and Naseer but they seem too nice and will probably not make it. 

[Blissfool]

 

25 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

But I was happy to see my favorite Lianna get more airtime and didn't care for the way Xander seemed to want to exclude her from the rest of the tribe.

The empathy she displayed re Shan's mom touched my heart and it helped me forget that I was mad at her for going through Xander's bag.

[LanceM]

5 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

I don't understand how Shan and Ricard think they are going to rule the game after the merge. The 2 of them will be picked off first. If they even make it that far. Shan has the better chance with Lianna.

No they want. The green tribe and the yellow tribe will make it the number one priority to go after the still intact blue tribe. They are going to want to break up those 6 immediately. Shan and Ricard should be safe for awhile once they merge.

[knitorpurl]

58 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

For all of those who complain about reality show players "mugging" for the camera: I give you . . . Tiffany.

Oh, the eye rolls! She just had to let the camera know how little she was falling for Xander's advantage confession. 

Genie- if ever in this season someone has reason to roll the dice to try to stay it was you on this night. How that was not obvious to her (particularly when it was brought up during the tribal discussion) I cannot fathom. Clueless and way too trusting to the end.

[iMonrey]

Quote

So now that the three idols/advantages are found and the phrases spoken, how high were the writers who thought up broccoli/goat/butterflies, can the people who found them now vote? But everyone knows who holds the idols now.

The show is deliberately editing out all the talking heads who undoubtably figured out what the hell was going on with these guys saying weird things. Everyone knows what's going on, but they aren't showing us their reactions to it. Are we to believe everyone else is in the dark and can't figure out why these stupid phrases keep coming up at every challenge? Hell, they're probably laughing about how stupid it is. 

[mertensia]

Shan gives off grifter vibes. I'm not sure why. Hope she goes soon.

 

[Steph Sometimes]

I really, really want a woman to win this season, but if it's a guy...I really hope it's Naseer.

The biggest twist for the next episode? Erika speaks again!

[TVFan1]

When Ricard said that the 2 of him and Shan will be targeted come the merge, I thought that won't happen. Luvu is who will be targeted most likely. When I saw the first vote for Ricard, I got excited that maybe he was going, but of course, he stayed. Disappointing. 

Glad Nasser found the three way idol and now has one. I hope he sticks around for a while. 

Are Tiffany and Xander working together now?

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I think Liana's advantage is kind of unfair, because there's no challenge to it.  She already knows who has an idol and an advantage, so unless Xander gives them to someone else for some unknown reason, there's no risk to her.  Guessing the show didn't think that one through.

Speaking of not thinking things through, I don't know what Genie was thinking.  She knows Ricard/Shan are a tight duo, she was blindsided by them when they voted out Brad, they backstabbed J.D. who thought he was with them, yet she trusts them enough to tell them about the idol (which they then took and were going to trick her), and she doesn't even try her shot in the dark?  

The biggest highlight tonight was Ricard and Shan fighting at camp over J.D.'s advantage.  I did like the bonding scene with Liana and Shan, but Liana loses points with me for going through Xander's stuff.  It shouldn't be allowed.  

Tiffany may be smarter at this game than anyone realizes. 

That Liana knows for sure that Xander has the active HII doesn't make the advantage inherently unfair. She was just lucky to have an easy target to steal a given HII. But the question still remains if it would make sense for her to use the advantage that way. 

She may want to be in an alliance with Xander and to figure out where to get yet another HII or advantage. 

In the abstract the show couldn't have predicted that Xander would be stupid enough to leave his advantage in his unguarded bag and that Liana (or whoever might end up with that particular advantage would be smart enough to go through his bag and get away with it)

I don't understand why someone who was at the bottom would have shared information about an idol and made it a group decision, as opposed to potentially protecting herself. It would have been glorious if Genie played it like she should have and put Shan and Ricard to the test of whether they could risk her playing the idol. They'd almost have to vote for the other, leaving Genie free to vote out whichever she chose and to keep her idol. 

I don't think Tiffany's smarter. I think it's that Xander is dumber. It was such a stupid lie, particularly when he had to say the phrase that pays previously. Even if it weren't such a transparent lie, what would it get him to induce her to believe he just found the idol recently instead of him having it for several days?

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For all of those who complain about reality show players "mugging" for the camera: I give you . . . Tiffany.

You know, I usually hate reality show mugging on the Amazing Race, but I didn't mind it so much out of Tiffany. In part because I believe she is crazy enough to be like that with no cameras around. But also in part because IMO the situation did call for some eye rolling.

1 hour ago, Grizzly said:

I don't understand how Shan and Ricard think they are going to rule the game after the merge. The 2 of them will be picked off first. If they even make it that far. Shan has the better chance with Lianna.

Assuming there's a merge of the 12 remaining players, the 6 green and yellow players have somewhat of an incentive to fight against the 6 blue players. If the blue tribe stays strong, they could otherwise potentially knock the other six off one after the other. 

1 hour ago, Straycat80 said:

So now that the three idols/advantages are found and the phrases spoken, how high were the writers who thought up broccoli/goat/butterflies, can the people who found them now vote? But everyone knows who holds the idols now. I don’t like this new system, go back to old way, less confusing IMO. 

Genie was too nice, no shock she got the boot.  If they merge next week I don’t know who I’d root for. I like Xander and Naseer but they seem too nice and will probably not make it. 

The people who hold HIIs can all vote, as we saw Shan did. Presumably most people noticed something weird about the players saying their respective phrase that pays. But it's certainly possible that without the luxury of full bellies, DVRs and context, they have not parsed what the weird phrases mean or remembered who said them. Because there was such open sharing of information on the Yellow and Green tribes, I would think that pretty much everyone on them knows Naseer, Shan and Xander each have a HII. There is no reason to think that any of the Blue Tribe besides Naseer knows about the HIIs in play. 

All of this could make for a potent combination if they do a conventional merge next week because there could be an alliance formed with numbers, a couple extra votes and a couple HIIs as well. Shan/Ricard/Liana/Xander could be a pretty strong four with two HIIs, two extra votes, and they could steal Naseer's idol since they know he has it. They can bring along Tiffany and Evvie and pick off the Blue tribe one by one. 

[Tdoc72]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I think Liana's advantage is kind of unfair, because there's no challenge to it.  She already knows who has an idol and an advantage, so unless Xander gives them to someone else for some unknown reason, there's no risk to her.  Guessing the show didn't think that one through.

 

It’s not the show’s fault that everyone didn’t keep their traps shut about having the idol. 

3 hours ago, vb68 said:

That's what I didn't get at all.  She even stated that that it rightfully belonged to her.  Really?  I don't think so. Shan seems to think she's entitled to all the advantages.  That's one of the big reasons she's really hard to like.

This is a fun idea. Knowing the show though, it's easy to see them assigning those roles to Sandra and Rob, and giving those two more chances just to argue back and forth.    

I really dislike her. I have to admit she’s pretty sharp and playing a good game. She’s either going to win which I will hate or she will get voted out (hopefully a blindside w/the idol in her bag) which would be <chef’s kiss> delicious. I really hope it’s the latter. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Tdoc72

[Nashville]

To me, the funniest part of this episode was really partly a joke on me.
When Genie found the Beware Advantage and immediately took off running down the trail hollering to Shan and Ricard “I found an idol! I found an idol!” at the top of her lungs, my first thought was “that’s right Genie - shout it out so every other person in the whole frikkin’ tribe can hear you.”

Then I realized - telling every other person in the whole frikkin‘ tribe was exactly what she was about to do.  🤣

[Primetimer]

Primetimer's Joe Reid weighs in on Naseer's surprise Beware Advantage reveal in his just-posted recap of tonight's episode:

Quote

It's a much-needed feather in Probst's cap when it comes to the many changes he instituted for this season. Five episodes in, Survivor 41's meta-narrative has been an existential battle between Probst's desire to keep re-shaping the game with twists and turns versus the genuinely likeable and compelling cast who are playing this season like they've been waiting to play Survivor their whole lives, and in that one glorious moment, Probst claimed a crucial victory.

More here:
https://www.primetimer.com/features/okay-survivor-you-got-us-with-that-silly-secret-phrase-twist

[30 Helens]

6 hours ago, mojoween said:

Survivor put music to Shan’s ridiculous humming.  I hate it.

I was torn. On the one hand, it was kind of hilarious that Shan’s dumb theme song got scored and orchestrated. But on the other hand, let’s not encourage her.

6 hours ago, Michichick said:

Yes, Shan said that because Ricard was her #1 ally in her tribe of three, so if she wasn’t there on day 12 it would mean Ricard had betrayed her and therefore wasn’t trustworthy.

Thank you for clarifying. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one confused by that.

This season’s cast is a huge disappointment. Coming off a season of Big Brother where CBS’s new diversity initiatives resulted in the most likeable and rootable cast in maybe ever, I had high hopes for this group of Survivors. But in this case, the casting team seems to have interpreted “diversity” as finding multiple examples of dumb, egotistical and annoying.

Naseer may be growing on me, though. Strategy aside, I appreciate his stubborn refusal to get on board with Danny and DeShawn’s comp-throwing obsession on general principle, and his giddy enthusiasm over finding the idol almost made me stop rolling my eyes about the stupid 3-way idol and its stupid 3-way secret passwords. At least those damn dead butterfly cousins can stop flapping their wings now.

[violet and green]

God, I want to lie face down on the sand and thump the ground while chewing sand. Yet another rerun of some trusting goof finding an advantage and racing to tell the people who really don't need to know that - cue, 'Genie, NOOOOO!'

There is really only Naseer and Xander left who I find likeable, and I guess Erika...

But never mind, more convoluted advantages! Too many guys on nose beers cooked up this season's 'twists'. It's unbearable.

Watching Shan and Ricard get blindsided at some point will be the only way enduring all of this will be pleasurable, I think. Particularly Shan.

 

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For all of those who complain about reality show players "mugging" for the camera: I give you . . . Tiffany.

And running second is Ricard with his constant side-eye to the world while other people are talking. So handsome but so snide.  It's a shame.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, Blissfool said:

 

The empathy she displayed re Shan's mom touched my heart and it helped me forget that I was mad at her for going through Xander's bag.

I really dont beleive anyone ahould be allowed to go into someone elses bag. I find it disgusting actually .

[Lantern7]

The show is still on “morning after” status for me. I’m still watching The Challenge “live,” and that’s been the best call for me. One drawback is that I potentially miss out on stuff I could’ve learned on the live thread. Shan has her own music now? I totally didn’t notice. I was focused on keeping up with the advantages and strategies.

I don’t think we’ve had a three-person pre-merge TC since Palau. I was rooting for the same thing back then: for each player to vote for each other, get forced to revote, then force another tie when they all switch votes. Sadly, Shan and Ricard opt for Genie, which was probably the right move.

I’m not caring that much for anyone left. The detachment might be for the best. I like Naseer, though. I am disappointed he went for the idol, in the sense that not picking it up would’ve left two other players twisting in the wind. And I appreciated Ua deciding to let the clue lie there, even if it didn’t last.

Im a geek. I see “Ua,” I think “UA,” I think of My Hero Academia. I know that castaways from decimated tribes aren’t automatically out these days, but I don’t think Ricard or Shan are particularly “Plus Ultra” at this point.

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For all of those who complain about reality show players "mugging" for the camera: I give you . . . Tiffany.

In her defense, it’s Xander. I don’t think he’s a dummy, but he’s like a big friendly dog right now. He just wants to please others. Tiffany could learn from Kass . . . less looking into the camera is more, even if Xander does make it so easy. The boy is gonna wind up on The Challenge in the future.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

This season’s cast is a huge disappointment. Coming off a season of Big Brother where CBS’s new diversity initiatives resulted in the most likeable and rootable cast in maybe ever, I had high hopes for this group of Survivors. But in this case, the casting team seems to have interpreted “diversity” as finding multiple examples of dumb, egotistical and annoying.

Naseer may be growing on me, though. Strategy aside, I appreciate his stubborn refusal to get on board with Danny and DeShawn’s comp-throwing obsession on general principle, and his giddy enthusiasm over finding the idol almost made me stop rolling my eyes about the stupid 3-way idol and its stupid 3-way secret passwords. At least those damn dead butterfly cousins can stop flapping their wings now.

People's mileage will vary, but to me, this particular crew of castaways isn't any more dumb, egotistical or annoying than the average crop. We just have been spending a disproportionate amount of time with castaways who are dumb (Tiffany, Brad, J.D., Genie) or egotistical/annoying (also Tiffany, Shan, Ricard, Sydney). There are half of the castaways about whom we know pretty little, really (Heather, Erika) and IMO the rest (Danny, Deshawn, Naseer, Xander, Liane, Evvie) are more or less fine/typical. I personally like Shan but understand why people might have a problem with her. 

I don't think diversity or casting is to blame for any issues with the season so far. I think the problem is that they wanted to juice things up with all the different advantages, which has had things be fairly confusing and had the cast scrambling and making suboptimal decisions. 

Now maybe it will all pay off as people now scheme to find out about the advantages/idols people have, strategize on how to deploy or not the various advantages that they have, get blindsided and get sent home with pocket idols, etc. 

[PhoneCop]

Well, at least we had one week of getting to know the cast as people. Now back to Survivor: Calvinball...

A shakeup would've been nice, but since Genie was no more a strategist than JD, the upside is that we're burning off the obvious cannon fodder before the merge. Fewer warm bodies and more actual players going forward.

[Lamima]

When Shan was deciding does she take the loyalist or the strategist my thoughts were LOYALIST. A duo only needs one strategist. But a loyalist is always helpful. They will do whatever is asked and can be used as a shield pretty easily (I always go back to Rob with Philip). I am no fan of Ricard and his RBF but I really hope he eventually stabs Shan in the back. 

[judyri]

I'm finding this season extremely boring.  It's turned into 99% 'outwit' and it's like sitting through a 4 hour budget meeting in a conference room full of accountants.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

The biggest highlight tonight was Ricard and Shan fighting at camp over J.D.'s advantage. 

I hate them both but that was a great scene. So hilarious. 

52 minutes ago, Lamima said:

When Shan was deciding does she take the loyalist or the strategist my thoughts were LOYALIST. A duo only needs one strategist. But a loyalist is always helpful. They will do whatever is asked and can be used as a shield pretty easily (I always go back to Rob with Philip). I am no fan of Ricard and his RBF but I really hope he eventually stabs Shan in the back. 

This. This so much. I want Ricard to throw Shan under the bus so hard. And then he can go the next week lol.

[ProfCrash]

5 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Naseer may be growing on me, though. Strategy aside, I appreciate his stubborn refusal to get on board with Danny and DeShawn’s comp-throwing obsession on general principle, and his giddy enthusiasm over finding the idol almost made me stop rolling my eyes about the stupid 3-way idol and its stupid 3-way secret passwords. At least those damn dead butterfly cousins can stop flapping their wings now.

I think Naseer is an interesting player. He is awkward, his whole come to me if you have a problem with me, thing struck me as honest but really naive. He was talking about players behind their back, as he should, and he should expect that the same is happening in his direction.

That said, I think he is right to not throw challenges. He is not stupid, he can see how that can be a bad idea. Not only does losing numbers hurt them but it offers a chance that people can vote for him instead of the target that he was told, Erika. You want to avoid tribal because your name can be written down not only because you expect your name to be written down. Nasser seems to be aware that he is on the outside of his tribe and isn't willing to risk being the sacrificial lamb. Good on him.

Nasser will cement himself as a favorite player if he managed to not tell everyone in his tribe that he found the idol. That could also play into his reason for not wanting to throw a challenge, he didn't have a vote at the time of that conversation. The idol only activated at the immunity challenge.

Liana would win me over if she stole Shan's idol. That would be awesome. I doubt that it would happen but it would be great. The obvious play is to take Xander's idol, I am so hoping that isn't what happens. Heck, Liana could take Nasser's idol. She knows all three phrases and would know that Nasser, Shan, and Xander have idols. Imagine a scenario where there is a swap and Liana ends up on a tribe with Xander or Shan and Nasser. She steals Nasser's idol and adds another person with immunity to her group, that could be a game changer.

I don't like people going through bags but it has been a known part of the game for ages. Xander was an idiot to leave his papers in his bag. Liana confirmed that Evvie had been telling her the truth about Xander's idol. They already knew about the vote advantage because Xander told them about it. She really didn't gain much info from that foraging.

DeShawn should know who has the three idols because Evvie told him about Xander's idol. The three phrases are strange enough that they stand out. We heard Brad and Genie referencing Xander's butterfly statement when Brad found the idol. DeShawn should recognize that conversation as awkward and Nasser's statement was just as strange.

 

[Lamb18]

There was a 3-person tribal in season 25 Philippines as Denise and Malcolm were the last ones remaining from their tribe.

Right now I kind of like Ricard. He's not particularly nice and he's sneaky but he's owning it and he's not acting entitled. I hope he goes further than Shan. She was unnecessarily mean to Genie. Genie was really upset about Brad going and Shan just kicked Genie when she was down by saying Brad trusted her more than Genie. Shan was angry and said that on purpose to hurt Genie and put her in her place (bottom). That type of meanness is not necessary in playing the game.

You can't trust Ricard in the game but I think you could trust him in real life. I don't think I could trust Shan at all.

[fishcakes]

The editing is a bigger change to me than all the new twists/advantages. When Naseer said the goat on astroturf thing and they flashbacked to him finding the idol, that was at least the second time they did a flashback to reveal something to the audience that previously they would have shown in more or less chronological order. They did it when Brad found the advantage by the fire and I think there was one other time, but I can't remember the specifics. That, and conversations being intercut with THs about and photos from the players' home lives gives the whole show more of a scripted feel. To me, it makes everything feel a little flat, like I'm watching something with a predetermined outcome.

Ricard saying he and Shan were running the whole game was so funny. They're not running the game, they're running their tribe and running it in such a way that they've lost four of their original six members. So kudos on that, I guess. Also, he thinks that by going to TC so many times, it gives them an advantage over the other tribes since tribes that win all the time sometimes fall apart at the merge because they haven't had to test alliances. And he's right about that, but in the past when players go into a merge down in numbers and end up doing well, it's because they were able to take a subservient role in a larger alliance (Denise and Malcolm in Philippines or Sherri in South Pacific, for example). I don't see Ricard or Shan being able to tamp down on their egos enough to do that. They're going to immediately try to start running things and alienate people. OTOH, the Blue tribe is likely going to merge with a majority, maybe over Yellow and Green combined, but they're not a particularly cohesive tribe, so they could fall apart, except no one on Yellow and Green seems savvy enough to take advantage of that. I just think everyone is playing pretty terribly this season.

[ProfCrash]

Ricard and Shan will survive for a bit because they are swing votes for a 2 person alliance in the Blue tribe or yellow. But they will be the first to go when they are no longer needed. Neither Ricard or Shan strike me as people capable of immunity wins so they are going to be hoping for advantages and idols. It is not a great way to play the game.

This is why I like Nasser's refusal to throw a challenge. There is time to get rid of people in your tribe at the merge but right now, those numbers are important. And you don't want to risk your own ability to play the game because you were lied to and you are the target.

I hope that Nasser has found a way to approach Erika and let her know what the others are planning so that they can work out an alliance of some sort. That said, Erika seems to trust DeShawn so that could backfire.

[blackwing]

Genie has to be possibly one of the dumbest and most naive contestants to ever play the game of Survivor.  At the start of the episode, she's sitting pretty and feeling so good about herself because Shan chose to keep her over JD.  She's gushing about how strong and tight the three of them are and she feels good about it.  Did it not occur to her that if they lost the next immunity challenge, that one of them would be going home?

Obviously not, because when she finds an idol, she immediately goes and tells her competitors about it.  Who then promptly go and backstab her and take it for themselves, even though they all agreed they wouldn't take it.  Then Ricard makes up something about how they were just going to "fake say" the phrase to see if anyone else says their magic phrase.  

I thought Shan had said something to Ricard about how she had to be the one to take the Beware Advantage in case she lost her vote because then Ricard would have to vote Genie off and Shan had promised Genie that she would never write her name down.  Well, I guess Shan decided to write her name down after all?

I am assuming that Shan wins the game.  The editing is so obvious, there are certain seasons where the focus is so much on one person and that person is the narrator for the season.  Tony Vlachos in his first appearance.  Adam Klein.  This season it's Shan.  We already heard her explain her stupid humming twice.  This episode, they turned the humming into actual background music.  She talked about her parent's divorce and having to choose a parent.  She talked about her mom dying (or getting in drugs, or something).  She talked about her rough life and bad crowd and how she found her new life as a pastor.  I think we know way way way more about her than about all of the remaining contestants combined.  I know that Deshawn is in medical school, Danny is a former NFL player, and Tiffany is some kind of teacher or counselor.  But apart from that, I don't think I could tell you a single thing about any of the others.

 

I hate when people go through other people's things.  Of course Xander and Evvie are discussing how Xander left his idol in his bag, just as Lianna and Tiffany are going through his bag.  

The Beware Advantage is a huge bust because at this point, shouldn't everyone know exactly who has the newly activated Idols?  All of Yellow knows Xander has it and they all know that it is active, and they know the other phrases so they know who on the other tribes have them.  Obviously Shan and Rickard know exactly who has them.  Naseer knows.  Deshawn should know, because Evvie told him about the phrases (I think).  If Deshawn knows, then Danny and Sydney know.  So basically, the only people in the game who are possibly clueless are the invisible Erika and Heather.

And because everyone blabbed, now Lianna can just steal someone's idol with her ship's wheel advantage?  I wasn't clear, does this have to get asked at Tribal?  If she steals someone's Idol out in the open in front of everyone, won't everyone know she has it and target her next round?  Even if not in the open, won't the person who got it stolen tell others and get everyone to target her?  This doesn't seem that great.

There have been so many convoluted idols and advantages that I have been getting a little confused.  So I think this is an accurate summary of idols and advantages:

Yellow

Xander - Activated Idol (beware advantage), Extra vote (captain's wheel #1)

Lianna - Take someone's Idol or Advantage (captain's wheel #4)

Green

Shan - Activated Idol (beware advantage), Extra vote (from JD from captain's wheel #1)

Blue

Naseer - Activated Idol (beware advantage)

Deshawn - Extra vote (captain's wheel #2)

 

Brad also had a Steal-a-vote from the captain's wheel #3 from the nighttime sneak away and choose tarp or steal, but that one is gone for good I would assume.

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

People's mileage will vary, but to me, this particular crew of castaways isn't any more dumb, egotistical or annoying than the average crop. We just have been spending a disproportionate amount of time with castaways who are dumb (Tiffany, Brad, J.D., Genie) or egotistical/annoying (also Tiffany, Shan, Ricard, Sydney). There are half of the castaways about whom we know pretty little, really (Heather, Erika) and IMO the rest (Danny, Deshawn, Naseer, Xander, Liane, Evvie) are more or less fine/typical. I personally like Shan but understand why people might have a problem with her. 

I don't think diversity or casting is to blame for any issues with the season so far. I think the problem is that they wanted to juice things up with all the different advantages, which has had things be fairly confusing and had the cast scrambling and making suboptimal decisions. 

Now maybe it will all pay off as people now scheme to find out about the advantages/idols people have, strategize on how to deploy or not the various advantages that they have, get blindsided and get sent home with pocket idols, etc. 

I agree the issue with this season isn't about diversity at all, there are just as many gunners and just as many dumb people and just as many invisible people as in past seasons.  I think the problem is that this season has spent so much time focusing on advantages  that there isn't much time left for anything else.

Edited October 21, 2021 by blackwing

[Guest]

Shan may very well win, or at least go far, but just because she's getting the lion's share of the focus (and a generally positive edit, even if it isn't working on a lot of people XD) doesn't guarantee that. Michaela was THE star of the first 6 or so episodes of Millennials vs. Gen X, and then she got booted right before the merge. People were convinced that Christian was going to win David vs. Goliath because he was getting most of the positive coverage, but he was out before the finale.

So there's hope for those who see Shan's dominance thus far as proof that she's winning. So far, it's just proof that her tribe is losing.

Edited October 21, 2021 by tracyscott76

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ricard and Shan will survive for a bit because they are swing votes for a 2 person alliance in the Blue tribe or yellow. 

Not if they just reshuffle everyone into 2 new six-person tribes. Then they'll be easy pick-offs on their respective tribes, assuming they are separated. 

Quote

it’s Xander. I don’t think he’s a dummy,

Agree to disagree.