S05.E14: The Music and the Mirror

[bichonblitz]

What happened to Rebecca's dementia? She seemed perfectly fine this episode while in others she couldn't walk out the door without getting lost and the family fighting over putting her in an assisted facility. 

 

[gonzosgirrl]

I tend to be a broken record on this, but the casting of the younger Big 3 on this show is incredible. Young Beth is spot on, and in the scene where we see teenage Kate's face straight-on and then it switches to current Kate, also straight on, it's downright uncanny. Teen Randall isn't quite as good in the looks department, but he has Sterling's speech/voice and mannerisms down cold.

I'm sappy, but I really want the show to have a happy ending. We know Kevin has success, but I want it to be the success he wants. I still get weird vibes from Madison (pathologicl liar would not surprise me, nor would kill-you-in-your-sleep psychopath), so I'm not fussed if it's her he's with down the road. I hope Toby and Kate make it, but I'm doubtful that happens. I don't know if they'll have the stomach to kill Kate off, but it would not be unrealistic, and it would (IMO) be good storytelling. I think Beth and Randall will always be fine - they do make a good couple.

[Ohiopirate02]

27 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

What happened to Rebecca's dementia? She seemed perfectly fine this episode while in others she couldn't walk out the door without getting lost and the family fighting over putting her in an assisted facility. 

 

While Rebecca has been diagnosed with dementia, she has not progressed that far yet.  The argument from last season was over Randall wanting Rebecca to uproot her life to travel to St. Louis to be a part of a clinical trial for a new medication.  She is still capable of living her life with some precautions.  She may no longer be driving and Kate would not leave her kids with Rebecca alone, but she is currently having more good days than bad days.  Rebecca getting lost in Pennsylvania was a bad day.  That is not her baseline yet.

[MissLucas]

Great episode. On top of everything already mentioned I loved the short exchanges between Randall and Deja, these two have come a long way. 

And yes, a woman who wants to have pockets in her dress is a woman you love and cherish, you hear me Kevin?

Bit weird to have Kevin been called a people pleaser in the same episode where he gets chewed out for walking out on three different projects. Im sure all the teams and crews he left hanging were not pleased.

I'm with the folks who think uncle Nicky will find Kevin's career saving project. If not, going back to tv is really no longer a downgrade in your career. Also: Hollywood's been remaking basically all the action shows from my childhood - with one exception: Where's my Airwolf remake??? If I can't have it IRL let me at least have Kevin wearing pilot shades and looking all cool as new Stringfellow Hawke. Just saying.

Edited May 12, 2021 by MissLucas

[Blakeston]

I liked Deja being jealous of Jennifer, because it's one of the few times they've shown Deja acting like an actual teenager.

Her advice to Randall was great, but I don't really buy someone her age (she's supposed to be what, 16?) giving such perfect relationship advice. Especially considering that she never had the chance to observe what a healthy romantic relationship looks like throughout the vast majority of her childhood.

[MamaBird]

Poor Deja.  She's situation that can be hard for adults to come to terms with, and she's still so young.  When you commit to a partner who has a child with someone else, you're committing to (at least possibly) have their ex in your life as well.  Jennifer wasn't around when Deja and Malik got together, but it's a looooooong time until that baby is 18, and anything can happen.  Both my husband and I have children from previous marriages, and when we married, his youngest was 13 and mine was 11.  We were old enough to understand and accept that we were looking at several years of dealing with each other's exes on the children's birthdays, graduations, sporting events, etc., as well as the usual visitation and holiday arrangements.  (My husband had custody of his kids.)  And even with all this maturity and understanding (hee!), there were some very difficult times.  I can't imagine trying to deal with that as a teenager.

[circumvent]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but Beth's dance studio storyline did nothing for me. It was completely unrealistic that she would open a studio after not dancing for 20+ years and with zero teaching experience.

Former dancer here. Ballet classes don't vary much. The basics remain the basics forever. Barre are always the same from beginning to end, adding a little twist to quell the boredom of repetition. Center Work follows a routine as well, things we need to work on daily. It is not that hard. To me, teaching came pretty naturally. I could teach a class today, without too much preparation. It is muscle memory,

[ProudMary]

Zoey has some damned nerve with, "No matter what happens, you make it what you wanted all along." What Kevin wanted all along was to have children somewhere down the line. It's the reason he broke up with you. He has a son and a daughter now. This IS what he wanted all along. It seems that next week's episode may have Kevin questioning whether he wants to spend forever with the mother of those children  (I think the answer will be yes) but there's absolutely NO question that he truly did get what he wanted here, probably more than he ever has before.

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Rebecca getting lost in Pennsylvania was a bad day.  That is not her baseline yet.

That also happened because she had taken an antihistamine for poison ivy and it reacted badly to another medication she was on, causing the disorientation.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

While Rebecca has been diagnosed with dementia, she has not progressed that far yet.  The argument from last season was over Randall wanting Rebecca to uproot her life to travel to St. Louis to be a part of a clinical trial for a new medication.  She is still capable of living her life with some precautions.  She may no longer be driving and Kate would not leave her kids with Rebecca alone, but she is currently having more good days than bad days.  Rebecca getting lost in Pennsylvania was a bad day.  That is not her baseline yet.

This is all true, plus hearing one of her favorite songs that day may have also helped. One of my cousins works in a memory care facility and says that even patients with advanced dementia still remember and love to listen to their favorite pieces of music.

[gonzosgirrl]

17 hours ago, mtlchick said:

And about the preview….Kevin do not mix it up with Sophie. Madison appreciates pockets in a wedding dress! MARRY HER. 

Right on with the pockets! POCKETSSSSSSSSS!!!

As for Sophie, my prediction - since this seems to come after he's already spoken with her,  I'm guessing that he's got her on-screen because he's going to delete her contact info.

[SunnyBeBe]

Isn’t Toby getting unemployment benefits?

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Rebecca getting lost in Pennsylvania was a bad day.  That is not her baseline yet.

 

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

That also happened because she had taken an antihistamine for poison ivy and it reacted badly to another medication she was on, causing the disorientation.

It was twice that she had a bad day. Once at the family cabin she got lost then also at Randall's house when the family was there celebrating something and she went out to get a pie or go for a walk or something. She ended up in a Chinese restaurant, lost her phone, didn't know where she was. She was freaking out.  I would have thought the disease would have progressed by now. I was surprised to see she was doing so well. The disease only gets worse, never better. 

[buttersister]

Quote

Her advice to Randall was great, but I don't really buy someone her age (she's supposed to be what, 16?) giving such perfect relationship advice. Especially considering that she never had the chance to observe what a healthy romantic relationship looks like throughout the vast majority of her childhood.

I think her advice stemmed from what she wishes Randall would do for her sometimes. Just be here for me. Don't try to fix it.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

 

It was twice that she had a bad day. Once at the family cabin she got lost then also at Randall's house when the family was there celebrating something and she went out to get a pie or go for a walk or something. She ended up in a Chinese restaurant, lost her phone, didn't know where she was. She was freaking out.  I would have thought the disease would have progressed by now. I was surprised to see she was doing so well. The disease only gets worse, never better. 

Those were actually the same day.  The show got cutesy and did a flashforward in the Thanksgiving 2019 episode. 

[Cheyanne11]

5 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Once at the family cabin she got lost then also at Randall's house when the family was there celebrating something and she went out to get a pie or go for a walk or something. She ended up in a Chinese restaurant, lost her phone, didn't know where she was. She was freaking out. 

The chinese restaurant episode was at the cabin.  She went out to get a birthday cake for Kevin and Kate after taking the antihistamine.  Kate called Randall and he came up and solved the drug interaction.

I believe the one at Randall's was pretty mild, like she couldn't remember a recipe or something and Randall sensed something was wrong.  Regardless, she's still having a lot of good days, so not mentioning her dementia in last night's episode makes sense.

[marceline]

The montage of how Beth lost her dance studio really got to me. She did the same thing so many small businesses did. She did everything possible to try and keep going in the face of ever-changing conditions with no real guidance. The Zoom dance classes broke my heart because they were a perfect example of how some things just can't be done remotely. And watching the Zoom classes gradually have fewer students really broke my heart. Not just for Beth but for her students because we know there were losses behind each of those screens. It really reminded me of the first part of the pandemic when so many of us were just trying to figure it out day-to-day even as the job losses and death toll skyrocketed.

6 hours ago, MamaBird said:

Poor Deja.  She's situation that can be hard for adults to come to terms with, and she's still so young.  When you commit to a partner who has a child with someone else, you're committing to (at least possibly) have their ex in your life as well.  Jennifer wasn't around when Deja and Malik got together, but it's a looooooong time until that baby is 18, and anything can happen.  Both my husband and I have children from previous marriages, and when we married, his youngest was 13 and mine was 11.  We were old enough to understand and accept that we were looking at several years of dealing with each other's exes on the children's birthdays, graduations, sporting events, etc., as well as the usual visitation and holiday arrangements.  (My husband had custody of his kids.)  And even with all this maturity and understanding (hee!), there were some very difficult times.  I can't imagine trying to deal with that as a teenager.

Agreed. I understood her anxiety yet at the same time I wanted to support Jennifer wanting to be present for Janelle and Malik trying to navigate that whole situation. There's no bad guys in this situation (yet). Everyone is just trying to do their best. This is one of the stories I assume got lost to the realities of producing TV during the pandemic.

Edited May 13, 2021 by marceline

[Crs97]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

One of my cousins works in a memory care facility and says that even patients with advanced dementia still remember and love to listen to their favorite pieces of music.

There is a beautiful, heart-breaking video of a prima ballerina with dementia.  She sits in her wheelchair with no expression, but when they played “Swan Lake” she starts doing all the arm motions.  It is absolutely gorgeous.

I really hope Kevin goes through his discernment process only to realize he loves Madison.

It would be hilarious if Kevin ends up saving his career by writing his own western like Nicky wants.

[Ohmo]

22 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I honestly can't tell if he truly loves her or not. I'm going to feel bad for her if she gets dumped right before the wedding especially after finally feeling like she's got a family with Kate and Rebecca and Randall. I don't see this ending well unless Kevin figures it out fast.

Me too...because I think she loves him, and I think part of him loves her.  I hated how a seed was planted at his agent's office. Zoe didn't beed to go there, and Sophie?  Let's hope nothing happens next week.  I have no issue with Sophie.  Truly.  However, that ship has sailed.  Why can't it be that Kevin and Madison have simply grown to love each other?

Wish that Beth would have been able to keep the studio, but Randall did well at the end.  Less is sometimes more, and he managed to be able to do less.

My pet peeve was Kate:.  These kids...Kate, Jack is also one of "these" kids.  Are you going to "other" him like that?  Those choir members are kids...not these kids...just kids.  Jack was not put on this Earth to make Kate feel all warm and fuzzy about herself.  Jack is his own person.  Kate is also not qualified enough to direct a choir.  I can't remember if she actually got her degree or not, but even if she has a degree, she's had it for about five minutes...and now she's a wondrous choir director.  Eye roll.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Ohmo

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I can't remember if she actually got her degree or not, but even if she has a degree, she's had it for about five minutes...and now she's a wondrous choir director.  Eye roll.

She finished college (via being able to pick up her last few credits 15 years later at a different school or some magic like that) but I don't know what her actual degree is in.

[kili]

Quote

It would be hilarious if Kevin ends up saving his career by writing his own western like Nicky wants.

Previously mentioned in this thread was that Ben Affleck recovered his career, but he did it by gaining respect as a director and writer (and started casting himself in his own movies). Affleck's two Oscars are not for acting - one is for writing "Good Will Hunting" (his big break) and the other is for producing "Argo" (which he also directed and helped to adapt the screenplay and starred in).

Kevin recovered from quitting his television series by selecting and producing his own play, so he has already shown he is willing to invest in his career and can pick a winner. So, it wouldn't be that much of a change if he decided to go that route again. It's also interesting that the two previous movies he worked on that went so well were directed by Ron Howard (a former actor) and M. Night Shyamalan (who famously funds his own movies which he also writes and has a cameo in). So, that could be another hint that Kevin is going behind the scenes. 

 

[Crs97]

I totally can see Kevin go the writing/directing route; for me the funny part will be if Nicky’s Bonanza line is life-changing.

[madmax]

22 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Randall coming in to dance with Beth, at the end, had me in tears.  For once, Randall didnt "speech-ify", he just was a husband comforting his wife.  

Only because Deja told him many times not to.

21 hours ago, nilyank said:

I have a feeling that Uncle Nicky is going to find a winner of a script that will make Kevin's career soar.

That would be great!!!

21 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I was confused by the timing of the wedding dress shopping. Was it during the workday? Did Kate take Rebecca to her school the same day?

The whole timing of this show is confusing.

16 hours ago, Quof said:

You don't patch drywall then tape, mud and paint it in a few hours. 

Oh, come on.  One superfast trip to Home Depot, who manages to have everything you need in stock, magically fast-drying spackling that didn't need to be sanded because there wasn't a shit ton of dust everywhere, the exact same paint left in the can that still matched the paint that had been on the ceiling for years.  Sure, it could happen.  🙄

16 hours ago, Ana88 said:

Omg what an episode... Left me crying multiple times. 

First though I really hate how they incorporated covid into the show. I really wish I could forget about it while watching my favourite show instead of getting reminded of it every few mins ugh. Also I wanna see what they originally had in store, it sure feels like they changed A LOT of the original storyline. 

I hate that they did it, but since they did, let's make it more consistent.  Mask up when masks are supposed to be worn.  Don't take them off to have a conversation.  And the Beth storyline truly wouldn't have worked, anyway.  Lock-down happened before everyone was wearing masks, so she couldn't have dance class in masks, especially with them all way less than 6 feet apart.

 

I'm glad they finally addressed the multiple times Kevin has left a production.  Even a shitty production.  I think, as @nilyank said above, Nicky will find him a script, but he'll decide to direct and get his Oscar that way.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

My pet peeve was Kate:.  These kids...Kate, Jack is also one of "these" kids.  Are you going to "other" him like that?  Those choir members are kids...not these kids...just kids.  Jack was not put on this Earth to make Kate feel all warm and fuzzy about herself.  Jack is his own person.  Kate is also not qualified enough to direct a choir.  I can't remember if she actually got her degree or not, but even if she has a degree, she's had it for about five minutes...and now she's a wondrous choir director.  Eye roll.

Kate's job is as a teacher's assistant. I don't think she's actually directing a choir. She just helps out. She was just leading them in that one song because they needed to have the scene of Rebecca watching her and it is more dramatic without the main teacher there.

I thought Kate was just saying "these kids" to refer specifically to the kids she works with. Not to differentiate them for being blind or special needs.

33 minutes ago, madmax said:

I hate that they did it, but since they did, let's make it more consistent.  Mask up when masks are supposed to be worn.  Don't take them off to have a conversation.  And the Beth storyline truly wouldn't have worked, anyway.  Lock-down happened before everyone was wearing masks, so she couldn't have dance class in masks, especially with them all way less than 6 feet apart.

I was wondering about that. It seems like it would have made more sense that she'd suddenly switch to video classes when things shut down, then would be able to open up for classes with smaller groups and kids in masks when she was allowed to re-open. 

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

One of my cousins works in a memory care facility and says that even patients with advanced dementia still remember and love to listen to their favorite pieces of music.

Dementia is about memories of things, places, events, but not emotions. There are studies that show how much calmer and happy some people in nursing homes get when they are visited by family and friends that are close, that are important in their lives. They don't recognize the person, but they feel the emotions related to the family members.

 

4 hours ago, marceline said:

The montage of how Beth lost her dance studio really got to me. She did the same thing so many small businesses did. She did everything possible to try and keep going in the face of ever-changing conditions with no real guidance. The Zoom dance classes broke my heart because they were a perfect example of how some things just can't be done remotely. And watching the Zoom classes gradually have fewer students really broke my heart. Not just for Beth but for her students because we know there were losses behind each of those screens. It really reminded me of the first part of the pandemic when so many of us were just trying to figure it out day-to-day even as the job losses and death toll skyrocketed.

 I felt the same. Just to add, that's how professional dancers kept up at least in during the first lockdown. Some small studios did the same, and in my city one of them is back with classes in person, with masks and distancing.

[UMAngela]

I get that Kate’s weight is often a storyline in the show, but comments on Chrissy Metz’s body independent of that storyline are irrelevant and unnecessary. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by UMAngela

[BoogieBurns]

21 hours ago, MBayGal said:

If I were the costume designer, I would have a nervous breakdown trying to think of something that looks good on Chrissy.

Stop. Just stop. People in this thread could be Chrissy Metz's size and fatphobia doesn't have a place here. The dress was beautiful and I have a similar one in my size. 

On 5/11/2021 at 10:58 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

The baby must have taken a very long nap during all the plumbing repairs

There was a carseat with a blanket over it on the kitchen counter. I think that's where Hailey was. So Toby could have fed her while waiting for Dad to arrive, but she was right there.

[bros402]

Silly Toby, plumbing is nowhere as easy as sudo rm -rf *


(note, if you use linux, do not type that)

[debraran]

I can't take credit for this question, I read it elsewhere, but in all the scenes in the future when Kevin's kids are with him at the cabin, I was concentrating on what he said to them and not their age. They were young and Jack was having a baby then or was that a different time too?

If those were Kevin's twins, no names were used, just "kiddo' and "baby" and I wondered, wouldn't they be close in age to Kate and Toby's children? I wonder if he had another set.

Was the scene in the hospital with Jack Jr much later than Rebecca dying? I would think with one year left, that's a lot of time to speed up.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I can't take credit for this question, I read it elsewhere, but in all the scenes in the future when Kevin's kids are with him at the cabin, I was concentrating on what he said to them and not their age. They were young and Jack was having a baby then or was that a different time too?

If those were Kevin's twins, no names were used, just "kiddo' and "baby" and I wondered, wouldn't they be close in age to Kate and Toby's children? I wonder if he had another set.

Was the scene in the hospital with Jack Jr much later than Rebecca dying? I would think with one year left, that's a lot of time to speed up.

 

Jack's wife and baby are another set of flashforwards set beyond the 2030 of Rebecca's deathbed.   The simplest answer as to why Kevin does not name his twins is the writers decided on the names this season after those scenes were filmed.  

[cameron]

On 5/12/2021 at 2:05 AM, MBayGal said:

If I were the costume designer, I would have a nervous breakdown trying to think of something that looks good on Chrissy.

That dress looked like the drapes that Scarlett O'hara pulled off the windows of Tara and made into a dress.  Not a good choice for her.  She didn't wear it well.

[AzraeltheCat]

17 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Zoey has some damned nerve with, "No matter what happens, you make it what you wanted all along." What Kevin wanted all along was to have children somewhere down the line. It's the reason he broke up with you. He has a son and a daughter now. This IS what he wanted all along. It seems that next week's episode may have Kevin questioning whether he wants to spend forever with the mother of those children  (I think the answer will be yes) but there's absolutely NO question that he truly did get what he wanted here, probably more than he ever has before.

Ugg, this times a million! I mean first of all, even if you feel a pang when your ex says he's getting married, who the heck responds like that? You just grit your teeth, smile, and say "Congratulations, I'm so happy for you" even if you don't mean it!   Plus, she's with someone so that should ease the sting, and she never wanted kids.  So that was just way crappy and I really hope Kevin shakes it off.  

Also, I HATE Sophie.  It's not the character per se, but more the idea that this childhood friend, turned GF then wife, is the absolute LOVE of Kevin's life and no one else will EVER do.  They've tried multiple times.  They haven't made it work.  Kevin has changed a lot and I like to see him move on.  I really like Madison [though I'm dying to know whether she works/what she does or if just lives off a trust or inheritance] and would like to see them work out.  Also, that wedding dress was GORGEOUS! And yay, pockets!! 

Edited May 13, 2021 by AzraeltheCat

[JayDub1987]

This was the first episode of the season that I didn't absolutely hate. Give me more Uncle Nicky.

My wife and I are both still hoping that Kevin and Sophie end up together. It's more of a personal deal for us since we got a divorce and got remarried I suppose, but we're holding onto a sliver of hope. I like Madison, but I'm still pulling for Kevin and Sophie.

[Blakeston]

When Zoe said, "No matter what happens, you make it what you wanted all along," I took it to mean, "You do whatever your partner wants, and convince yourself that you wanted it too."

It's a weirdly back-handed compliment, but there's some truth to it. If it helps Kevin avoid a bad marriage, I'm glad he heard it.

I can't get behind his relationship with Madison, because a) I don't think they love each other, b) the writers don't have a good grasp on Madison's character, and they give her whatever personality is convenient for each episode, and c) I'll always see the actress as the face of nepotism.

[BC4ME]

Good episode. I thought it was ironic how they brought up Kevin walking out on three different productions at the same time they were setting it up for him to (maybe) walk out on Madison. 

They brought up both his pattern to leave situations and his pattern of trying to please everybody. Hopefully he can hit somewhere in the middle and have some personal growth from these realizations. 

[cameron]

11 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Stop. Just stop. People in this thread could be Chrissy Metz's size and fatphobia doesn't have a place here. The dress was beautiful and I have a similar one in my size. 

There was a carseat with a blanket over it on the kitchen counter. I think that's where Hailey was. So Toby could have fed her while waiting for Dad to arrive, but she was right there.

People are probably remarking about Chrissy's weight because of all the items on the internet alluding to her major weight loss.  She is definitely in an unhealthy area with her weight.  

Edited May 13, 2021 by cameron

[TV Diva Queen]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When Zoe said, "No matter what happens, you make it what you wanted all along," I took it to mean, "You do whatever your partner wants, and convince yourself that you wanted it too."

It's a weirdly back-handed compliment, but there's some truth to it. If it helps Kevin avoid a bad marriage, I'm glad he heard it.

I can't get behind his relationship with Madison, because a) I don't think they love each other, b) the writers don't have a good grasp on Madison's character, and they give her whatever personality is convenient for each episode, and c) I'll always see the actress as the face of nepotism.

I took it that way too.  LIke when Kevin said he was craving pizza and Bridgerton all day and ended up with sushi and the British cooking show.  To me, that meant that marry Madison is what is suggested and "required" of him and he really wants Sophie.  Sophie is the pizza and Bridgerton.  

Beth went to Carnegie Mellon?  

I don't see things ending well for Kate and Toby - they're both somewhat lying to each other.  Sure, when you partner is down, you don't over zealously spread your happiness around - BUT the partner should pick up on it and make it OK for YOU to be happy now.  

Too much TV for me......when they showed Toby's dad, I was like "isn't he dead"  and then I thought..."No Kevin Arnold's dad is dead"  LOL  

[chocolatine]

11 hours ago, bros402 said:

Silly Toby, plumbing is nowhere as easy as sudo rm -rf *

If "sudo rm -rf *" is the answer Toby gives to any technical interview question, that would explain why he can't get another job.

8 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Beth went to Carnegie Mellon?  

Yes, that's where she and Randall met.

[TV Diva Queen]

48 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

If "sudo rm -rf *" is the answer Toby gives to any technical interview question, that would explain why he can't get another job.

Yes, that's where she and Randall met.

why don't I know that?  LOL  I knew they met in college, just never retained where it was.  thanks :) 

[Goldfish77]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

 

 

 

Too much TV for me......when they showed Toby's dad, I was like "isn't he dead"  and then I thought..."No Kevin Arnold's dad is dead"  LOL  

Thanks G  you totally made my day!!!!

[Rootbeer]

23 hours ago, Crs97 said:

It would be hilarious if Kevin ends up saving his career by writing his own western like Nicky wants.

It would be even better if Nicky writes it and that Oscar in Kevin's future went to him for Best Screenplay.

[Marley]

Lame episode.

Madison sucks. Bad actress. No chemistry between her and Kevin for me. I didn’t care about her stupid wedding dress shopping. I wish they would just break them up already. Too bad Kevin had kids with her.

Kevin is having problems with his career. I feel like we’ve had a storyline just like this before.

Beth and her dancing career? Boring. Who cares.

Deja and Malik? Who the fuck cares.

Only good part was Uncle Nicky in the meeting.

Beth and Randall dancing at the end. Ok that was damn cute and I cried lol.

[ProudMary]

14 hours ago, Blakeston said:

When Zoe said, "No matter what happens, you make it what you wanted all along," I took it to mean, "You do whatever your partner wants, and convince yourself that you wanted it too."

It's a weirdly back-handed compliment, but there's some truth to it. If it helps Kevin avoid a bad marriage, I'm glad he heard it.

That is what Zoe meant and we have seen Kevin do exactly that on several occasions, with one notable exception: Zoe herself. The fact that she didn't want children was THE deal breaker for Kevin. He knew he wanted children and although it wasn't the way he planned it, he now has exactly what he wanted. The Great British Baking Show instead of Bridgerton? Sure, he can convince himself that he's fine with that. Not having children? That's his line in the sand.

[Manda317]

On 5/12/2021 at 8:31 PM, Crs97 said:

I totally can see Kevin go the writing/directing route; for me the funny part will be if Nicky’s Bonanza line is life-changing.

I never even considered that the Oscar Kevin had would be for anything other than acting. Directing/Writing would be a great idea for him. He would have less recognition which would make it easier for him to be out and about with his family, and it would allow him to be more flexible with his schedule so that he could spend the amount of time he wants with his family.

[kili]

Quote

That is what Zoe meant and we have seen Kevin do exactly that on several occasions, with one notable exception: Zoe herself. The fact that she didn't want children was THE deal breaker for Kevin. 

He didn't break up with Zoe, Zoe broke up with him. She realized that he wanted to have babies, but would sublimate that want for the sake of the relationship. She didn't want to be the reason he didn't have kids. He said that he made his choice and she told him that he made the wrong choice.  He wouldn't break up with her because he didn't get what he wanted - so she had to break up with him so he could get what he wanted.

Interestingly, in the episode they break up, Zoe introduces Kevin to pour-over coffee. He jokes about how long it takes and she tells him it makes for better coffee.  Trying to convince himself about not having kids and having pour coffee, Kevin says:

"See, this is what I want right here, you know. I mean, who could spend minutes doing pour-over coffee if there was a screaming baby in the house?"
 

In this current episode, he is drinking pour-over coffee with two babies in the house (in the morning, before he sees Zoe again).

Back to the subject at hand - I don't think Madison knows that he is just acquiescing to all her wants. She's too distracted by her own issues related to pregnancies and her new role as a Mom. They aren't communicating.  She just thinks she has a great boyfriend. Madison is usually the people-pleaser too. 

[bros402]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

If "sudo rm -rf *" is the answer Toby gives to any technical interview question, that would explain why he can't get another job.

i would love if we saw Toby interviewing, he's asked "okay, so how do you transfer our ubuntu server to Windows, because we hate ourselves?"

"sudo rm -rf *, duh"

[debraran]

21 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jack's wife and baby are another set of flashforwards set beyond the 2030 of Rebecca's deathbed.   The simplest answer as to why Kevin does not name his twins is the writers decided on the names this season after those scenes were filmed.  

Ok, so the show doesn't end with her death which is good. I feel that would be sad, I'd like to see them longer. That was at least 10 years after that scene. How they fit things in next season will be interesting.

[RedbirdNelly]

I loved this episode which had my crying twice

* Beth and Kate having that moment--that was very special and very real. And not just because I'm dealing with my own teenager issues and hoping someday it circles back to a happy place

*Beth and Randall --loved the dance. It was perfect. I also thought it was amazing how much young Beth in profile in the car looks like current Beth. Such great casting. 

I also loved Randall and Deja. That was the best scene with him telling her to roll her eyes and tell him where she was. They both "get" each others tendencies. 

The opening was sad to watch. 

I have my doubts on Madison and Kevin but they work ok, they are this close to the wedding and they have twins--although I would normally say you don't just marry someone when you are not sure--when you have just had twins together and work well enough, you should follow through. Give it a go. As my husband once said (in response my despair when a sibling announcing a wedding that we knew was not the right match), "they can always get divorced." (and they did). 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

While I like that the show is having Kevin seriously think about committing to Madison, I wish the show did not have to bring in his exes to get the ball rolling.  What he needs to do is have a sit down with Rebecca.  Rebecca the one who had her great love in Jack and then found a different kind of love with Miguel.  This is seriously the best time to do the Miguel deep dive we have all been waiting for.  Kevin and Madison can be a parallel to Rebecca and Miguel if the writers wanted to go in that direction.  

[Sake614]

Agree with others who said Chrissy looks even bigger than before. She’s a beautiful young woman but she does appear to have gained weight. ☹️