S15.E10: Polygamy Hell

[Mothra]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:49 PM, LilyD said:

For some reason, I believe they hardly understand the nature of this disease, its  consequences for her future. And they never will...They knew something was wrong whilst pregnant and that baby should have been delivered in hospital, period! 
After  the birth, she had to be rushed to hospital. Then Maddie kept (and keeps) on saying FATCO because she hasn’t got a clue what it stands for. The way they keep on talking about Evie’s issues as if it’s no big deal. Well...it is a big deal! That kid is going to need an awful lot of support in the future....You’re just not getting it! It annoys the heck out of me. 

Having said this, I must say that I was touched with how Evie is loved and accepted into that family. 

I didn't--still don't--know much about fatco syndrome, so I started looking around on the internet.  I didn't learn a lot about that particular genetic disorder, but I did find that genetic disorders are (surprise! surprise!) much more common in polygamous families than in the general population, and practically rampant in the fundy plygs, where marriages among very, very close relatives are the order of the day.  There is one particularly nasty genetic disorder, fumarase deficiency, that has been widely studied, and thus there's more info on that one.  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-mormons-genes/polygamist-community-faces-rare-genetic-disorder-idUSN0727298120070614

I hope someone close to the Browns has a serious discussion with the younger people in that family about the availability (and imo advisability) of prenatal testing, and maybe advising them to find nice Jewish and Catholic spouses.

[gingerella]

I barely watch this tripe now, but I tried to watch this episode, hoping it would be the last ever. Uch. It was really painful watching these dolts try to wrap their heads around Covid and what to do about masking and social distancing. It's not rocket science but watching Janelle try to talk her way around it was PAINFUL AF. She is way dimmer than I had previously thought, and that bar is pretty damn low at this point. We all know Christine isnt jumping ship, it's probably the latest ploy to get TLC to keep them on for another season so they can still milk at the teat of The Loser Channel. That said, Christine looks like she actually lost a lot of weight though her face looks a lot older. But the other three look like dreck! Sobbin' looks like crap now, Merri - what in the GD Hell does she do to her face? She looks like she sets her makeup gun to 'Clown'. And Janelle is just so fucking annoying with her "Gosh golly whillickers I just don't understand why we all need to isolate and social distance?" If I am not mistaken, even dope-on-a-rope KoDouche understood the basics of Covid prevention. So when he's the voice of reason it's time to reevaluate your life choices ladies.

I for one, would love it if Christine and Merri just left and divorced their asses, though I'm not sure how that works if you're not legally married in the first place. Maybe there's some sort of fundy 'conscious uncoupling' ceremony they can do with some sage? Just leave Douche with mealy mouthed Sobbin' and Janelle and let's see how great his plyg life is. Asshats, one and all.

[Scarlett45]

SEVERAL posts have been hidden for the following reasons:

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[Absolom]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:54 PM, heatherchandler said:

Even if he’s the youngest in his class, at 8 years old he should be fully reading, he should not be “learning to read.”  My 11 yo has ADHD and he was reading at the end of preschool if I remember correctly.  Not War and Peace or anything, but age appropriate books.  Scholastic has a good guide according to age, in my opinion.  

Jumping in late.  Solomon was born near the end of October.  The entrance deadline is being 5 by 9/1 for kindergarten and 6 by 9/1 for first grade in Arizona, Solomon would be among the older children and at 8 would have been in second grade.  Most second graders have moved beyond the beginning to read stage and are at least independent on very easy books.  Maybe Robyn doesn't understand the stages involved in learning to read or is using the term improperly.  Otherwise, yes, the kid is behind.  Most second graders can read books like "The Cat in the Hat" or more difficult.  My grandson read that one in kindergarten and he wasn't abnormally advanced for his class.  

Adding since it was Kody who said it, of course, he's oblivious to the stages of learning to read.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Absolom

[Twopper]

I have always loathed Janelle the most of the adults. 

I was ready to punch her when she implied that  Christine's kids were lying about being bullied.  In the season that Ysabel was wearing the back brace she complained about how some of the kids reacted to it.  I know that was in LV, but I would think it would also happen in Flagstaff.  The brace affects movement and makes her look big.    I think Gabe would handle anyone who bullied him, and Savanah would suck it up.  Janelle is not the Mama Bear that all the other moms are;  if they were bullied, they probably kept it to themselves.

And I wanted to take a few more jabs at her for telling Christine she was angry that Christine wanted to go back to Utah. That seemed to come out of left field.  So much for the communication skills Janelle thought they should work on and for the family mission statement. 

I am proud of Hunter for graduating from the Air Force Academy.  He looked awful in those shorts. 

The COVID lock down saved us from the usual over the top graduation party.  I am glad Gwen and Aurora enjoyed their parade.  Were the diplomas mailed to them?

There was the dancing for Aspen and Mariah.   Poor Mykelti had her parents do a lip sync to a song that suggested she stay away from anything that would lead to the "exchange of hormones" or worse.  And even worse was the horrible Tale of Two Maddies which was not only stupid, but probably embarrassed her so much that she was relieved to move to college early. 

I don't recall a big bash for Logan, although he got a quilt of remembrance with everyone's picture on it.  And there were no parties for Hunter, Garrison, Paedon or Gabe. 

[Absolom]

On 4/20/2021 at 3:07 PM, Persnickety1 said:

If this shit gets canceled, it's going to be interesting watching Kody have a meltdown of epic proportions because the only income in the immediate family will be what Meri and Christine make shilling their MLM bullshit.  

Which Kody and Robyn would be amazingly lucky if the full amount of that income was disclosed and any portion was shared with them.  I can't see any reason why Meri or Christine would offer a dime that might go to Robyn.  

[Teafortwo]

On 4/18/2021 at 10:58 PM, whydoievencare said:

Kody's "conversation" with Christine and Ysabel regarding her surgery - I was flabbergasted that he was proposing that she delay because it wasn't just about her but the whole family?  Does the whole family need to go to New Jersey to support her?  I think as long as Christine is with her, that would be sufficient.  He's disregarding the level of pain that she must have all day, every day.

And not just pain. I believe that her Las Vegas doctor said surgery would be required at greater than 45% curvature. 50% is significantly more pronounced. IMO they should have gotten her the surgery in Jan. 2020 at the latest (according to Christine in this conversation, Ysabel was already reporting pain then). I know, they needed to get insurance - which is in itself an outrage. They knew for YEARS that she'd probably require the surgery, so they had years to arrange payment. But Robyn needed a million dollar home.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Teafortwo

[Sofa Sloth]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:22 AM, laurakaye said:

 I tried to make them understand how hard my life was with all of them bugging the ever-loving crap outta me but women!  Amirite?  So THEY left ME!  But you're still gonna let me and Robyn onto Planet Kody, right?  Right?  Hey!!  Wait - noooooooooooooo don't shoot me into outer spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.............."

Coffee literally came out of my nose whilst reading that last part! 😆 You are such a visionary, I love you. 

The idea of old age Kody and Robyn being brutally denied access to their celestial afterlife planet paradise, to instead spend eternity tumbling through the universe endlessly, is just mwah! 💋👌🏼 

[laurakaye]

Sofa Sloth - this is PERFECTION!! 😂

[ladle]

I’m still psychologically distressed by the fact that I’m actually nodding along in agreement with Kody when he discusses Covid precautions.  But then he says that he “believes” that Garrison has a girlfriend, like Garrison is some neighborhood kid he has a passing acquaintance with and not his own offspring, and I remember that he is a full-time asshat and part-time father.

Edited April 23, 2021 by ladle

[ladle]

It’s such a sad statement about the quality of this show that I am completely fatigued by the pandemic and don’t really have any desire to see it play out on my screen, yet it’s almost refreshing to see this family doing anything other than making a series of terrible real estate decisions.

[ladle]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:03 PM, Kbo said:

I like them being the camera people, I feel like we saw more honesty tonight than we have in a long time. There’s a lot to unpack, looking forward to reading everyone’s thoughts this week. 

Right?? When Kody said “I just don’t give a shit anymore” (which totally should have been the episode title, btw) I literally yelled “WOW!” This was...oddly engrossing. 

[ladle]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:34 AM, DNR said:

With NY/NJ being Covid hotspots i wonder if Christine was allowed to be with Ysabel much in the hospital ( since she’s a minor child maybe yes?)

I live in NJ and both my daughter and I had some medical stuff happening this year. As an adult, I wasn’t allowed to have anyone in the hospital with me (except when I gave birth and my husband was permitted to be there). My daughter, as a minor, was permitted to have only one parent/guardian accompany her. 

[magemaud]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:50 AM, Cetacean said:

And vomit inducing to hear a "sister wife" encouraging another to stick around for a lifetime of emotional abuse.

A prospect not even relieved by death since Christine has to look forward to living on Planet Kody for eternity. 

I came here to suggest that maybe Ysabel doesn’t WANT her father to come to NJ for her surgery. She might be mortified by his exhausting, attention seeking behavior and would find more comfort dealing with the surgery with only her mother and Jersey relatives around.

[magemaud]

Just being picky, but I’m pretty sure doctors refer to scoliosis curves in “degrees” not percentages. I’m not sure what term the Browns use when talking about Ysabel. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

20 minutes ago, magemaud said:

...maybe Ysabel doesn’t WANT her father to come to NJ for her surgery. She might be mortified by his exhausting, attention seeking behavior and would find more comfort dealing with the surgery with only her mother and Jersey relatives around.

Even though I’ve watched this show from the beginning, I was still stunned when Kody said that Ysabel would need him there to draw strength from him. What a self-centered dimwit. He really doesn’t see these kids as individuals. They’re just reflections of him and opportunities to make him look good — mostly just in his own mind.

What Ysabel NEEDS is scoliosis surgery two years ago. Since you denied her that, what she needs is scoliosis surgery ASAP, accompanied by an adult to help and comfort her and not turn the ordeal into a circus. Sadly, despite the conceit that she has five parents who could fill that role, there’s only one who can or will and it sure as hell isn’t her useless biological father. 

I’m usually the farthest thing from a “but what about the ChiLDreN?!” type, but when Christine said Ysabel’s pain had been at an 8 or 9/10 for months and she was beyond her breaking point, and Kody started blabbering out a bunch of “solutions” that boiled down to “her pain is not a factor. My time and money and convenience and fear of COVID are all that matter,” I was yelling at the TV. The pain and fear Ysabel has experienced due to her biological father’s selfishness, laziness, and obvious lack of concern for his non-Robyn children, and her mother’s brainwashing and lack of resources, is unimaginable. I would not be surprised if she ends up with some form of PTSD or other long-term psychological effects. 

Kody needs to let them go. Just set these people free. They would all be better off without him — Christine and Meri and their kids, for sure, but also Janelle and hers, whether she realizes it or not. Robyn and hers probably would, too, just because he’s a toxic moron in general, but they’re at least reaping some meager benefit from his attention and preferential treatment. 

[Onecattoo]

Finally watched this last night and honestly, if Christine stays with this horrible excuse of a husband and father after this, then she’s complicit in the emotional abuse of those children.  She’s right, they have been last in their fathers eyes all their lives.  His complete disregard for Ysabels pain and needs over the impact on his wants, the impact on his ability to be with Robyn and her kids, and telling her she’ll just need to go have major surgery by herself is inexcusable.  How sad that Ysabel has to live with knowing the entire viewing audience got to see exactly how little she matters in her fathers eyes.  He truly doesn’t care anything about her, except what he can use to further his own wants.  Her eyes were clearly opened to this realization that she as a person has no value to him and that was heartbreaking to witness. Truely appeared to have figured him out long ago, but I think the older kids who remember the years when they all lived together have held onto the idea that he has redeeming qualities somewhere as a father....but in this episode he showed the world that simply isn’t true.  I hope every one of his older kids watched that this week and gave him hell.  The very best thing Christine could do for her children is take them to Utah and build a new life far away from Kody and his monogamous future he envisions for himself with Robyn.  And don’t even get me started on her concern about her kids changing schools if they moved to Utah, she didn’t care about anyone else’s kids when she insisted everyone follow Dayton to Flagstaff!  Her snowflakes would be just fine...but still, Christine and her kids would be so much better off surrounded by family and friends who care about them...Kody doesn’t. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Onecattoo

[Teri313]

1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I’m usually the farthest thing from a “but what about the ChiLDreN?!” type, but when Christine said Ysabel’s pain had been at an 8 or 9/10 for months and she was beyond her breaking point, and Kody started blabbering out a bunch of “solutions” that boiled down to “her pain is not a factor. My time and money and convenience and fear of COVID are all that matter,” I was yelling at the TV. The pain and fear Ysabel has experienced due to her biological father’s selfishness, laziness, and obvious lack of concern for his non-Robyn children, and her mother’s brainwashing and lack of resources, is unimaginable. I would not be surprised if she ends up with some form of PTSD or other long-term psychological effects. 

 

I really don't believe for a minute that Kody is motivated in any way by COVID safety, I think it's just a very convenient excuse to continue living with his real wife. If he went to NJ with Christine and Ysabel , not only would he be away from Robyn and his favorite children for that duration, but he would have to quarantine for a few weeks once they got back, right? Presumably at Christine's house. He certainly doesn't want to spend that much time with her, and he's not about to sacrifice that time away from Robyn, even for a kid who is in as much trouble as Ysabel is. He really is a piece of shit. And I know the other wives sound reckless at times, but I think it's just a frustration response to him and his manipulative BS.

[Cetacean]

2 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I’m usually the farthest thing from a “but what about the ChiLDreN?!” type, but when Christine said Ysabel’s pain had been at an 8 or 9/10 for months and she was beyond her breaking point...

Which makes Christine as complicit as Kootie.  What kind of mother allows that sort of thing to go on?  And that's not counting the years she encouraged the snake oil saleman from Michigan to harness her daughter in a useless contraption.  All because the Mighty Prophet decreed it?  Disgusting.  Shame on both of them.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Cetacean

[Sandy W]

40 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

Which makes Christine as complicit as Kootie.  What kind of mother allows that sort of thing to go on?  And that's not counting the years she encouraged the snake oil saleman from Michigan to harness her daughter in a useless contraption.  All because the Mighty Prophet decreed it?  Disgusting.  Shame on both of them.

All of this confirms my suspicion that what they are engaged in is a cult, rather than a religion.  Animals in the wild have more protective instinct to their young than these clowns do.

[Jeanne222]

Gosh I have so many thoughts on this I don’t know where to begin!

Im still in shock how badly he treats yasabel!  That was downright cruel!

For Christine to suggest another move for this ship of fools. Really Christine?

She now wants to live a polygamist lifestyle in Utah but when building one home for all to share in Flagstaff no, no, no!!!

They have no leader, they don’t like each other, no common ground and meri is a wife no more, Christine wants to move she’s feeling unloved and unwanted Janelle is still Kodys co pilot no matter how badly she’s treated!

Robin is Kodys wife. The end.   Stop trying to save nothing!

[65mickey]

I woud hope that Christine just wants to move her kids to Utah and doesn't give a damn about the polygamist life any more. Surely she must know that living polygamy with Kody and his harem is not working for her or for her children. But you are right there is nothing left to save. Just get out while the getting is good. Run Christine and don't look back. 

 

[b2H]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:58 AM, aulait said:

I've watched this trash show since the beginning and by far this was the worst episode EVER. Ironically, it was one of the most watchable because nearly every scene had some appalling element. I almost never comment but OMG.

At first I thought it was sweet how Meri pulled Christine away. Even when her "pep talk" started I was like, okay, this could be good. But by the end I was disgusted. Christine is done done. You can tell. She is 100% over it. Meri tried over and over to shut her down and tell her she was wrong (gosh, so reminiscent of the Christianese about how you shouldn't divorce even a truly horrible person) and Christine was so not convinced but stopped trying to argue back. 

Kody's treatment of Ysabel was just beyond words. As someone who has had this surgery, it is major, it is scary, and no, its NOT something you can wait on, especially if you are in pain. Scoliosis is progressive. And it is not a steady progression, it can and does accelerate. As an aside, I did wonder why she needed to travel to NJ for it though. I had my procedure done at a local hospital here in Seattle and unless I misunderstand what her procedure is, it's not so specialized that it should require cross country travel. If AZ doesn't have a specialist than surely a surrounding state does, and certainly Cali or WA! But whatever, it needed to be done and Kody being there was completely and utterly irrelevant. When  he said he wanted to be there so she could draw strength from him I was like WTF. She's got her Momma. No one is drawing strength from you. And this surgery isn't about YOUR need to be there, ffs. 

It may have been a situation to do with their getting insurance to afford the surgery.  That was all I could figure.  There are great hospitals and teaching hospitals in the southwest.  No need to go to NJ.

[b2H]

23 hours ago, Twopper said:

I have always loathed Janelle the most of the adults. 

I was ready to punch her when she implied that  Christine's kids were lying about being bullied.  In the season that Ysabel was wearing the back brace she complained about how some of the kids reacted to it.  I know that was in LV, but I would think it would also happen in Flagstaff.  The brace affects movement and makes her look big.    I think Gabe would handle anyone who bullied him, and Savanah would suck it up.  Janelle is not the Mama Bear that all the other moms are;  if they were bullied, they probably kept it to themselves.

And I wanted to take a few more jabs at her for telling Christine she was angry that Christine wanted to go back to Utah. That seemed to come out of left field.  So much for the communication skills Janelle thought they should work on and for the family mission statement. 

I am proud of Hunter for graduating from the Air Force Academy.  He looked awful in those shorts. 

The COVID lock down saved us from the usual over the top graduation party.  I am glad Gwen and Aurora enjoyed their parade.  Were the diplomas mailed to them?

There was the dancing for Aspen and Mariah.   Poor Mykelti had her parents do a lip sync to a song that suggested she stay away from anything that would lead to the "exchange of hormones" or worse.  And even worse was the horrible Tale of Two Maddies which was not only stupid, but probably embarrassed her so much that she was relieved to move to college early. 

I don't recall a big bash for Logan, although he got a quilt of remembrance with everyone's picture on it.  And there were no parties for Hunter, Garrison, Paedon or Gabe. 

I knew someone in junior high that had to wear a halo brace for scoliosis.  Not sure what happened to her - she was a couple of years behind me in school.

My grandson’s graduation from middle school was a drive by last year.  They collected their certificates then and were allowed more than six foot distance to get their graduation photo taken.  I joked at the time that figuring out who all these people were in the photo would be a challenge, given half the class or more were wearing their masks.

The ceremony was fine,

[Art Of Noiz]

5 hours ago, Sandy W said:

All of this confirms my suspicion that what they are engaged in is a cult, rather than a religion.  Animals in the wild have more protective instinct to their young than these clowns do.

I'm by no means defending their decisions re: Ysabel's scoliosis treatment. I'm a retired early, advanced Registry  Xray/CT/MRI Tech. I worked in the field for 35 years, and saw horrific images of people who had chiropractic adjustments. 

 

That said..my aunt converted to mainstream LDS right after I was born. She would visit chiropractor before an MD. She took herbal remedies, etc. The SW remind me of her. 

I've been reading Dorothy Solomon Allred's book, Daughter Of the Saints. Rulon was a chiropractor who utilised holistic and homeopathic remedies taught him by his mom. In the 1950s. I believe its an Old West tradition, with chiropractic methods as a "modern" twist. Add to that, most polygamists back then, didn't have insurance..it became part of their upbringing.

Especially for Christine Allred. Imo. 

 

[itsadryheat]

1 hour ago, b2H said:

There are great hospitals and teaching hospitals in the southwest.  No need to go to NJ.

Strange they couldn't go to Mayo Clinic in Phoenix. Maybe staying with her sister was a factor. Or getting away from kody.

"At Mayo Clinic, neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons draw upon their vast experience with spinal fusion techniques to help provide exactly the treatment and care you need for your specific condition."

[Twopper]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:41 PM, Cetacean said:

Which makes Christine as complicit as Kootie.  What kind of mother allows that sort of thing to go on?  And that's not counting the years she encouraged the snake oil saleman from Michigan to harness her daughter in a useless contraption.  All because the Mighty Prophet decreed it?  Disgusting.  Shame on both of them.

21 hours ago, Art Of Noiz said:

That said..my aunt converted to mainstream LDS right after I was born. She would visit chiropractor before an MD. She took herbal remedies, etc. The SW remind me of her. 

I've been reading Dorothy Solomon Allred's book, Daughter Of the Saints. Rulon was a chiropractor who utilised holistic and homeopathic remedies taught him by his mom. In the 1950s. I believe its an Old West tradition, with chiropractic methods as a "modern" twist. Add to that, most polygamists back then, didn't have insurance..it became part of their upbringing.

 

Janelle's mother who was an RN and a convert first to LDS then to fundy Mormon sent Mykelti to a chiropractor when she fell off the horse she wasn't supposed to ride.  I was rather surprised.

From my limited knowledge of people having surgery for scoliosis, it is my understanding it is preferred that the teen reach adult height before the operation.  

It makes me sad for Ysabel that she had to spend 90 minutes a day doing those useless exercises and only had time for school, homework and exercises for a year. 

On 4/23/2021 at 10:57 AM, magemaud said:

I came here to suggest that maybe Ysabel doesn’t WANT her father to come to NJ for her surgery. She might be mortified by his exhausting, attention seeking behavior and would find more comfort dealing with the surgery with only her mother and Jersey relatives around.

On 4/23/2021 at 11:26 AM, magemaud said:

Just being picky, but I’m pretty sure doctors refer to scoliosis curves in “degrees” not percentages. I’m not sure what term the Browns use when talking about Ysabel. 

I think someone upthread used the % and it is probably because if you are using the keyboard on the phone it is hard to make a degree sign.   I practiced once, and I had trouble using it in a text message.  I usually give up and write it out.   I was thinking I could also have said it, because I am often tired when I type comments.

I fully agree that Ysabel probably didn't want her dad around making the surgery all about him and his giving her strength and comfort when he made her do those exercises that killed her social life for a year or more.   I would resent the hell out of a parent who did that and then later suggested that despite the pain I should postpone it another 6 months., but if Kody were there he would be filming himself as the World's Greatest Dad instead of the idiot that made her wear all those pipes.  It was bad enough she had to wear the brace to school   The kids I have known recently have been able to just use the night brace; too bad that couldn't work for her.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Twopper

[Grifter Lives]

7 hours ago, Cetacean said:

Which makes Christine as complicit as Kootie.  What kind of mother allows that sort of thing to go on?  And that's not counting the years she encouraged the snake oil saleman from Michigan to harness her daughter in a useless contraption.  All because the Mighty Prophet decreed it?  Disgusting.  Shame on both of them.

Christine is complicit.  She allowed his preposterous and heartless idea that Ysabel go to NJ alone to be presented as an option.  Christine should have slammed it down and told him that his suggestion was so unconscionable that it was unspeakable.  But, he stated it and described it a few times and asked Christine and Ysabel independently if Ysabel could handle the surgery by herself.  Christine finally turned to Ysabel and assured her that she would not have to go alone.  But, at that point, Ysabel already stated that she wasn't needed and wanted to flee.  

Christine acted appalled in her sofa interview - but she was appalled by Kody's speaking his obscene idea, not his actual discarding their child.  I imagine that she'd react harshly and instantly, in contrast, if Kody suggested an obscenity like she share a kitchen or seal Ysabel as the 34th sister-wife to an elderly polygamist, who happens to be her parents' direct ancestor, ASAP for the insurance coverage.

Yet, Christine claimed that she never knew that men (in her sect) could be such bastards, when she remains married to one who revels 24/7/365 in reminding her.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Grifter Lives
,

[deirdra]

8 hours ago, Teri313 said:

I really don't believe for a minute that Kody is motivated in any way by COVID safety, I think it's just a very convenient excuse to continue living with his real wife. 

His personal COVID protocol is also odd; he doesn't seen to understand that germs can transfer both from him and to him and the next place he goes.  He mentions changing his clothes between homes, but he hops out of one of his many vehicles, walks inside & kisses Janelle or poses inches from Meri face without first determining what they've been up to for the past 14 days.  Washing or sanitizing his hands should have been the first thing he did upon arriving since the steering wheel, front door handle, etc. could have COVID on them from his trips from house to house, the gym (when open), & stores while Robyn confined herself to the home.

Edited April 24, 2021 by deirdra

[Absolom]

The biggest is no masks.  Changing clothes is basically useless with COVID.  That wouldn't have been known the first few weeks, but they should have had on masks fairly soon into production.  I was wearing masks before the end of March, but I'm a fussbudget.

[HelloOutThere]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:13 PM, gingerella said:

Merri - what in the GD Hell does she do to her face? She looks like she sets her makeup gun to 'Clown'. 

I noticed Meri seems to be channeling Peppermint Patty in styling this season. The camo top she wears a LOT is dreadful and really gives her a bit of a butch vibe (not anything wrong with that; I just don’t think that is what she’s going for at all).
 

It’s crazy that Meri slangs “cute” clothing but never looks good in clothing herself. It would be like it someone who looked like they were morbidly high risk for COVID preaching about “striving” to lose weight. 🤔🤔😉

Sorry for the superficial comments but I don’t have much to add to the insightful thoughts already shared about this episode. I like my reality shows REAL, but this was RILLY RILLY RILL, guys. Up there with the “you’re an alcoholic! There I said it, now everyone knows!” episode from Season 1 of RHOBH.

While I hate to see Christine in pain and wish she would just leave, I think her performance at Prairie Poop Flats (Specifically, “We’re not moving...are we?”) secured them AT LEAST one more season. Look at all the comments on this episode for example.

I wonder if Christine will now rise in favored status since, whether she meant to or not, I’m pretty sure she saved the show — not Janelle and her communication BS.

 

[rue721]

15 hours ago, Grifter Lives said:

She allowed his preposterous and heartless idea that Ysabel go to NJ alone to be presented as an option.  Christine should have slammed it down and told him that his suggestion was so unconscionable that it was unspeakable.

To be fair, Christine immediately told Ysabel that that would never happen, she would 100% be there, etc. But the damage was already done.

I have some sympathy for Christine because she was brought up in polygamy. I think it took her a long time to realize that she could choose something different, and it seems like even now she doesn't have the perspective to see how horrible and bizarre the current situation is. Also, her only identity in life since she was very young has been: (plural) wife, mother, homemaker -- and now she can see being an empty-nester on the horizon. I think she probably has the wrongheaded notion that she shouldn't break up the family while there are still young kids involved and is waiting until all are grown. But it seems to me that the family has already dissolved anyhow.

It's interesting to go back and watch old episodes of this show. Pretty much the only justifications that any of the adults gave for polygamy even a decade ago is that it makes childcare much easier and it's part of their faith. Well, childcare isn't really an issue anymore, and frankly, there will probably be no more kids. So now all that's holding them together is their faith? I have a hard time believing that most of these women are interested in being on Planet Kody and Kody has been really blunt that he doesn't want them there. Although especially with Meri and Christine, maybe they really are that religious, I don't know.

I wish I knew what was going on between Kody and Christine. I don't think they ever really got along, but he seems to actively despise her now. Where is the antipathy coming from?

It's interesting to see how much Kody wants monogamy at this point, too. He never seemed in love with or attracted to his first three wives, and I think he legitimately might have married three because that's the minimum number to get your planet and "practice the faith." I think now even living his religion isn't worth it to him, it's too horrible to be pressured to "cheat" on Robyn and be away from her all the time. I feel like I'm watching a nature doc on mating habits hahaha

[LilyD]

11 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I have some sympathy for Christine because she was brought up in polygamy. I think it took her a long time to realize that she could choose something different, and it seems like even now she doesn't have the perspective to see how horrible and bizarre the current situation is

This is actually pretty interesting from a psychological perspective. Some cults/faiths have a tremendous impact upon how someone thinks and behaves. And generally, it is really, really hard to change that or to open up to other thoughts or beliefs. And when you do open yourself to other views, taking that actual step to change, is a league in its own. 

It is my understanding, that the biggest factor is fear. Most faiths or cults will teach you that going astray has very serious consequences. (Think of being shunned, your kids being taken away, going to hell, etc) For Christine, it is not just about being married to Kody, it is about what her life has been from the moment she was born. You don't just change that.

I do wonder what opened her eyes... I doubt it was the harsh reality of living with an idiot. Two of her kids have married monogamously (Aspyn for now though) and I think Paedon has moved out too. Her kids seem to teach her a valuable life lesson; you can be happy and not be polygamist... 

[ladle]

I thought Meri's banana selfie was the most uncomfortable thing I'd ever have to see on this show... but, man, Ysabel's reactions to that conversation are right up there too.  Poor kid. 

I don't particularly care for Christine, for many reasons, but I will say that she does seem to genuinely love and support her children.  (And on a superficial note, her hair is looking fantastic!) 

[TurtlePower]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:03 PM, laurakaye said:

 

Run, Christine.  Go.  You cannot be with these people.  They are ugly, inside and out.

I hope she does, dumbfounding them all with her bravery. They don’t care about her and treat her like the “basement wife” she talked about feeling like. 

This was the most real and raw season yet. Yes, run Christine. Go back to Utah and let those assholes deal with one another, grab your popcorn and laugh at them from afar. 

[ladle]

"Isn't it obvious that we're not going to build on the property?!"

 

Yeessssss, Christine says what we're all thinking.  Who would have thought that a woman who's afraid of being killed by a kitchen appliance would somehow become the Greek chorus of this show?

 

I used to think that Jenelle needed to run from Kody and start her own life, but my views on this have completely shifted.  I actually think that of the three Original Recipe (TM) wives, Jenelle actually comes closest to having her needs met via her marriage to Kody.  At least Jenelle and the Asshat (band name?) actually seem to somewhat enjoy each other's company.  (Albeit in a pretty asexual/perfunctory way, but if that's what works for them, rock on.)  

 

(Can Christine maybe leave Kody, move back to Utah, and become part of the cast of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City?  I know the shows are on different networks but it's important to dream, right?)

[mittsigirl]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:45 PM, Raynedon said:

I think the older kids have lived this life with Kody all along and, if anything, may be surprised much of this season (the honesty), especially tonight's episode made it to air, but not surprised that the interactions took place.  

No matter what type of relationships kids are born into, it is ALWAYS those precious kids who are the ones to suffer so greatly. ALWAYS.

On 4/18/2021 at 9:40 PM, Just Wondering said:

I hope girls watching this show don’t attempt to emulate any of the ideas promoted therein. I hope/pray this is not the only brush they have with God - because then it might be the last.

And if they consider themselves to be so Godly, and living their lives the way God wants them to, then it is also them who should be the ones who know better. Sadly they just don't get it. Christians my a$$.

[Twopper]

23 hours ago, Twopper said:

Janelle's mother who was an RN and a convert first to LDS then to fundy Mormon sent Mykelti to a chiropractor when she fell off the horse she wasn't supposed to ride.  I was rather surprised.

From my limited knowledge of people having surgery for scoliosis, it is my understanding it is preferred that the teen reach adult height before the operation.  

It makes me sad for Ysabel that she had to spend 90 minutes a day doing those useless exercises and only had time for school, homework and exercises for a year. 

I think someone upthread used the % and it is probably because if you are using the keyboard on the phone it is hard to make a degree sign.   I practiced once, and I had trouble using it in a text message.  I usually give up and write it out.   I was thinking I could also have said it, because I am often tired when I type comments.

I fully agree that Ysabel probably didn't want her dad around making the surgery all about him and his giving her strength and comfort when he made her do those exercises that killed her social life for a year or more.   I would resent the hell out of a parent who did that and then later suggested that despite the pain I should postpone it another 6 months.  if Kody were there he would be filming himself as the World's Greatest Dad instead of the idiot that made her wear all those pipes.  It was bad enough she had to wear the brace to school   The kids I have known recently have been able to just use the night brace.

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Twopper

[mittsigirl]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:09 AM, MargeGunderson said:

I’m sure that if a wife leaves, Kody will blame the remaining wives, except for Robyn, of course. He will accuse them of not being sufficiently supportive and poor communication. He will never, ever accept that his treatment of the wives has anything to do with their unhappiness. 

I agree with your post. I just can't figure out the big attraction to Robyn he has. Robyn is not that great looking, she doesn't have a great body, she doesn't seem to be very intelligent, I just don't get her appeal, at all! She doesn't look as young as she should look for her age, she does so much of the dry-tear crying and sobbing, what the hell is it?? Is it the sex? Does she have an extra special working vagina that the other 3 don't have? What makes her so special to him?? Unless he maybe has a crazy chin fetish!

[Sandy W]

5 hours ago, LilyD said:

 

I do wonder what opened her eyes... 

Gwen is brutally blunt, and it would not surprise me at all to hear that she has been pointing out the inconsistencies in this relationship that Christine has considered a marriage.  It may be time for Gwen to call in reinforcements in the form of Christine's mother and aunt and stage an intervention to show Christine that there really can be a life after polygamy.

[mittsigirl]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:35 PM, ErikaAlyson said:

I finally finished the finale this morning. I'm surprised but then not surprised no one got up to comfort Christine when she was breaking down. They always fall over theirselves trying to comfort Robyn when she cries. Janelle was not being a good friend to Christine. Kody is a bad person. Seeing her sad TH's was painful to watch. Kody is sadistic.

I agree with your post. I have the last 4 shows waiting for me to watch on my PVR. I love reading all of your comments before I watch, helps me to not miss things! But it sounds like the last show is going to be upsetting to watch, because of Christine being so upset and not being comforted by her damn 'sisters'. And having to watch a child be so disrespected and dismissed by her sperm donor! That's not the way for a loving father to act at all! What's the point of having to be all together if they can't even care about each other? I have watched every single one of their shows, never missed one, but it's not enjoyable anymore, not with the cold heart that Kody is showing us. It's time for TLC to cut this 'family' loose.

[Sandy W]

11 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

I agree with your post. I just can't figure out the big attraction to Robyn he has. Robyn is not that great looking, she doesn't have a great body, she doesn't seem to be very intelligent, I just don't get her appeal, at all! She doesn't look as young as she should look for her age, she does so much of the dry-tear crying and sobbing, what the hell is it?? Is it the sex? Does she have an extra special working vagina that the other 3 don't have? What makes her so special to him?? Unless he maybe has a crazy chin fetish!

Referring back to the courting and honeymoon episodes with Robyn, comparatively speaking, Robyn was physically much more attractive than his existing harem of 20+/- years. Janelle and Christine had given birth 6 times each to his legacy children and they were done with that.  Robyn was a boost to his virility when she held out the hope of more kids in his kingdom. 

She came across to Kody as her savior, appealing to the White Knight complex that is inherent in many men.  She played her cards just right, leading the whole family to believe that she was a grateful woman who would bring nothing but balance and harmony to the group.  She was also much more worldly than the original 3, why she actually knew gay people!!! so she was in a position to counsel Meri on how to respond when Mariah came out.  Kody fell for it, and believed that with Robyn at the ready, she would relieve him of the pesky problems presented by the OG.  I think Kody is still under the impression that Robyn is an invaluable asset and if, off camera, the other's point out the inequalities, she has him so firmly wrapped that he would dismiss their concerns as petty and unappreciative of all she does for the family.

 

[TMI]

41 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

I just can't figure out the big attraction to Robyn he has. Robyn is not that great looking, she doesn't have a great body, she doesn't seem to be very intelligent, I just don't get her appeal, at all! 

The key...intelligence....hers does not threaten kod-dummy!

[Teafortwo]

I'm a bit late to the party and have not read through the whole thread, so I may be duplicating others' sentiments. I just came on to say that I'm happy to see real growth from Christine. She seems to have evolved much more than anyone else, from the ultra polygamy defender/supporter to the realization that her stunted, fossilized relationship with Kody is not what she wants and needs. Kody has changed too, but he's devolved.  

I think maybe what I've been waiting for all these years is to see these relationships, between the wives and each other, and each woman and Kody, unravel. The kids are either grown up or on the verge of being grown up, except for Truely, Sol and Arielamae. Kody doesn't give a rat's ass about Truely; he'd rather clean up dead rats with Sol any day. 

In the beginning I was fascinated by the possibility of seeing how a polygamist family operates and interacts. I found the investigation by the "anthropologists" from UNLV interesting (although it appears they weren't actually anthropologists) and the female minister who took an interest in the Browns early on. But once it became cake "testing" (why don't they say tasting?), delivering babies, and moving it just became so repetitive. Who knows if we're finally getting the truth or if Christine's "journey" this season was scripted, but her pain certainly seemed real. Kody deserves for her to dump his ass - but he won't give a damn if she does. He'll likely be relieved.

[Teafortwo]

13 hours ago, HelloOutThere said:

I noticed Meri seems to be channeling Peppermint Patty in styling this season. The camo top she wears a LOT is dreadful and really gives her a bit of a butch vibe (not anything wrong with that; I just don’t think that is what she’s going for at all).
 

It’s crazy that Meri slangs “cute” clothing but never looks good in clothing herself. It would be like it someone who looked like they were morbidly high risk for COVID preaching about “striving” to lose weight. 🤔🤔😉

Sorry for the superficial comments but I don’t have much to add to the insightful thoughts already shared about this episode. I like my reality shows REAL, but this was RILLY RILLY RILL, guys. Up there with the “you’re an alcoholic! There I said it, now everyone knows!” episode from Season 1 of RHOBH.

While I hate to see Christine in pain and wish she would just leave, I think her performance at Prairie Poop Flats (Specifically, “We’re not moving...are we?”) secured them AT LEAST one more season. Look at all the comments on this episode for example.

I wonder if Christine will now rise in favored status since, whether she meant to or not, I’m pretty sure she saved the show — not Janelle and her communication BS.

 

I love this comment and your insight that Christine's struggle will give them another season.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Teafortwo

[Jeanne222]

Hummm I wonder how many of the wives would stick around if the show and money were no more.

Something to ponder.

[notnowimbusy]

When Christine spoke about going to the Darger's, what she seemed to be trying to imply is that the women felt loved, respected, and happy - something that isn't at all what this family is capable of having.  The wives vie, backstab, gossip, complain about each other for the attention of a low life, ignorant, ego-maniacal douche bag.  The TLC paycheck has to be at the center of their thinking.   When that stops, only Janelle will be left for Kody to deal with.  Meri & Christine will go.   For the entire family it's always been about money.  Not having enough, having to always live on a knife's edge to get by.  

Christine looked like a hostage in her videos.   And Meri is the last person to give her advice about dealing with abandonment, and a loveless marriage.

[JenMcSnark]

On 4/23/2021 at 6:17 PM, Art Of Noiz said:

I'm by no means defending their decisions re: Ysabel's scoliosis treatment. I'm a retired early, advanced Registry  Xray/CT/MRI Tech. I worked in the field for 35 years, and saw horrific images of people who had chiropractic adjustments. 

 

That said..my aunt converted to mainstream LDS right after I was born. She would visit chiropractor before an MD. She took herbal remedies, etc. The SW remind me of her. 

I've been reading Dorothy Solomon Allred's book, Daughter Of the Saints. Rulon was a chiropractor who utilised holistic and homeopathic remedies taught him by his mom. In the 1950s. I believe its an Old West tradition, with chiropractic methods as a "modern" twist. Add to that, most polygamists back then, didn't have insurance..it became part of their upbringing.

Especially for Christine Allred. Imo. 

 

I was raised mainstream LDS and my parents took us to a "friend" who was a church member in a different ward (not sure how my dad met him if it was outside the church) for chiro adjustments almost weekly.  To this day, I will not see a chiro.  I really, really hated it. 

Dr. Elkins had an office and practice, but we always went to his house where he also had an office.  "Say popcorn!" as he snapped my neck... *shudder*

Back on topic, I am afraid that Christine just thinks a move back to Utah will bring Kody back in line.  He's obviously so far from any kind of religious beliefs at this point.  

Christine is completely guilty of neglecting Ysabel, but I also think that she had to raise the money and figure out the logistics of child care, etc., because Kody sure wasn't going to help out at all. 

I hate him. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by JenMcSnark

[AryasMum]

On 4/22/2021 at 3:47 PM, Mothra said:

I didn't--still don't--know much about fatco syndrome, so I started looking around on the internet.  I didn't learn a lot about that particular genetic disorder, but I did find that genetic disorders are (surprise! surprise!) much more common in polygamous families than in the general population, and practically rampant in the fundy plygs, where marriages among very, very close relatives are the order of the day.  There is one particularly nasty genetic disorder, fumarase deficiency, that has been widely studied, and thus there's more info on that one.  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-mormons-genes/polygamist-community-faces-rare-genetic-disorder-idUSN0727298120070614

I hope someone close to the Browns has a serious discussion with the younger people in that family about the availability (and imo advisability) of prenatal testing, and maybe advising them to find nice Jewish and Catholic spouses.

Interestingly, neither Kody,Janelle, nor Caleb come from polygamous stock. Now how inbred LDS is, I’m not sure. 

On 4/23/2021 at 9:16 AM, ladle said:

I’m still psychologically distressed by the fact that I’m actually nodding along in agreement with Kody when he discusses Covid precautions.  But then he says that he “believes” that Garrison has a girlfriend, like Garrison is some neighborhood kid he has a passing acquaintance with and not his own offspring, and I remember that he is a full-time asshat and part-time father.

I think that was Gabe. I agree about nodding along with Kody regarding Covid. Janelle is her typical wishy-washy useless, and her boys, minus Logan, are ignorantly dismissive of the danger of Covid. So irritating. 

[Mothra]

6 hours ago, AryasMum said:

Interestingly, neither Kody,Janelle, nor Caleb come from polygamous stock. Now how inbred LDS is, I’m not sure. 

I've been puzzling over this.  I gather, but only from tv shows like this one, that LDS tend to marry within their religion maybe more than other groups?  Polygamous or not, that limits the mating pool, and just as some other genetic disorders are linked to closed or relatively closed religious communities (notoriously, Tay-Sachs among certain groups of Jews and maple-syrup-urine disease among some Amish), I wonder if the LDS community is closed enough on its own, without factoring in polygamy, to have an effect on genetic anomalies.

There are about 6.5 million LDS in the US, mostly concentrated in only a few areas.  If mates are chosen only or mostly from that pool, what does that mean in terms of genetics when compared to our overall population of about 330 million?

I read somewhere a long time ago that it's necessary to go back only about 14 generations before we find that we (everyone on earth) are cousins.  Maybe we're all in a lot more trouble than I thought!