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S04.E11: Mondays, Am I Right?

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in The Good Place [V]

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Catfi9ht

Catfi9ht

34 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Chidi gets some good advice from Jason

Looking forward to it! It's probably just me being sensitive and/or protective of Jason's character, but I feel the jokes he's been a part of the last couple of seasons have been more mean-spirited in nature than the first couple of seasons. Season 3 fell into this pattern more than season 4, which I think has been a more positive ratio of mean-spirited to well-meaning.

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Ailianna

Ailianna

But it isn't the series end.  Two more episodes, and I am still expecting something I can't expect to happen.

I did like this a lot though.  And I really loved Jason's parts, and him noting that he has read a book or two.  Plus it was kind of good to see that Chidi wasn't now a miraculously perfect person, and that he still felt self-conscious.  But then was able to get through it, with some help from his bud.

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)

What fresh hell will the good place actually be?

I liked that Chidi was basically unphased reading Eleanor’s history.   They have reached the point where Chidi wouldn’t be horrified by anything Eleanor has done but does in fact take it as something that made her the woman he loves.   And Eleanor knows exactly who Chidi is as a person.

i also liked that the show brought Vicky back and had  Michael install her as the head architect because it made sense.  It was a great way to circle back to the first season and her wanting a bigger part.   Well this Is  much better then “Real Eleanor” ever was.   The roll of a lifetime.

Hi lava demons.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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phalange

phalange

I’m always impressed at how the things that would be a season, or in this case, series, finale on any other show never are on this one. I didn’t expect a time jump of 1.28 Jeremy Bearimys or for them to get into the Good Place with two episodes to go. The return of the hot air balloon was a nice touch, and it was so Wizard of Oz-like as the crowd waved to them. And of course Jason yelled Bortles! I can’t help but think there’s gonna be one more twist, though...

I love Vicky, the strong, independent acid snake in the body of a strong, independent woman. She finally got to be the star she always wanted to be. 

Chidi and Eleanor both worrying they’re not good enough for each other for opposite reasons was so sweet and very them. 

 

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Linny

Linny

This episode was one of the quieter ones in tone, but it functioned as a tidy bridge between the gang's journey from saving humanity's afterlife and moving forward with their own. Now that the big macro problem has been resolved, it makes sense for Michael and Chidi to momentarily question what's to come for them personally, if they'll be fulfilled or be fulfilling. The big picture of The Good Place has centered around faith that things can improve, that we'll be okay, and now the characters are having to find that same trust on an individual level. 

Michael's Sisyphus, rolling a rock up a hill analogy was a brilliantly executed way for Tahani name-dropping The Rock. God, I'm going to miss her perfectly timed, overly serious celebrity references. Also, as much as Vicky has annoyed me throughout the seasons, I gotta admit it felt good to see Michael provide her with some closure and the role of a lifetime. 

"Once on Earth I didn't know something and I had to ask Alexa. I felt dirty." LMAO. 

A golden hot air balloon ride seems like just the right sort of dreamy choice to transport the crew to the Good Place. Onward and upwards to our final hurrah. (Which I refuse to be sad during. This show has provided me so much joy and that's the feeling I want to carry through to the finale--not sadness that it's ending, but appreciation for how truly special it's been.)

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DrScottie

DrScottie

43 minutes ago, Linny said:

A golden hot air balloon ride seems like just the right sort of dreamy choice to transport the crew to the Good Place. Onward and upwards to our final hurrah. (Which I refuse to be sad during. This show has provided me so much joy and that's the feeling I want to carry through to the finale--not sadness that it's ending, but appreciation for how truly special it's been.)

It looks like the same balloon from the "Best Self" episode where they planned to take it to the Good Place, but that setup was just a sham as Michael didn't actually know how to get there. They hadn't even met the Judge yet. 

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Guest

Guest

15 minutes ago, DrScottie said:

It looks like the same balloon from the "Best Self" episode where they planned to take it to the Good Place, but that setup was just a sham as Michael didn't actually know how to get there. They hadn't even met the Judge yet. 

 I loved that it looked the same. It shows that Michael was telling the truth about trying to find a way to save them. He did find out about Good Place transport but couldn’t do anything more than replicate its appearance. Although I am disappointed Jason did call shotgun. 

thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Basically a set-up for the last two episodes, but I enjoyed it, and I'm glad they addressed some of the final issues, like Eleanor and Chidi's fear over them ever getting bored with each other in the afterlife and Michael wondering about his place in the world.

Vicky!  Glad they brought her back for one final moment, and she even ended up being a success as part of Michael's grand plan.  Sure, she might be an "acid snake" in a woman's skin suit, but she does have her moments, dammit!  Hope Tiya Sircar continues to get more roles.

Loved Janet/D'Arcy Carden's reaction when Michael started frantically telling her to shut-up.  And then her admitted she had to use Alexia at one point during her time on Earth.

Great episode for Jason.  He does read books, sometimes!  For a second, I thought it was going to be revealed that he only knew about Romeo & Juliet thanks to the Leonardo DiCaprio/Claire Danes film back in the 90s, but I like that it went in another direction.  And while Chidi's list was probably more accurate, I with Jason showing love for the almighty DJ Jazzy Jeff!

Not surprised that Kamilah and her parents would still be an issue with Tahani.

So, taking everything at face value, it looks like they are finally going to The Good Place! But judging from Michael's strange reaction at the end; not to mention there still being two more episodes; I suspect something else is up.

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albinerhawk

albinerhawk

8 hours ago, QuantumMechanic said:

Hmm. Michael had quite the grimace as he was stepping into the balloon (as Chidi  was walking in front of him). He either knows something or someone’s impersonating him. It can’t be this easy.

I anticipate there is a problem, but I don't think Michael is aware of it at this point. I took his look as one of reticence, letting go of the life he has known it to move onto the next chapter. 

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mikem

mikem

I liked that Jason's response to Chidi's surprise that he knew about the Montagues and Capulets was a simple, "I read some books, man!" and there wasn't a follow-up joke undermining him. 

Tiya Sircar as Vicky is really good as the one we love to hate.  Glad she came back one more time.

Hard to believe that the show is almost over.  Two more weeks!  I agree that The Good Place won't turn out to be completely good after all, but I have no idea what the actual twist will be.

 

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

I loved the whole exchange between Jason and Chidi.  I love that the best version of Chidi sees the logic in Jason's ramblings, and the parallels between Eleanor and Jason.  Both of them could have been so much more on earth if they only had a better upbringing.  

I do wonder if Michael's reticence about Team Cockroach ascending to the Good Place has to do with the fact that he is a demon.  I know he was not immediately thrown out of the post office last season, but I do wonder if he is worthy enough to stay with his friends.  Are they going to have to say goodbye, or can Team Cockroach find a way to keep the band together?

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jmonique

jmonique

19 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do wonder if Michael's reticence about Team Cockroach ascending to the Good Place has to do with the fact that he is a demon.  I know he was not immediately thrown out of the post office last season, but I do wonder if he is worthy enough to stay with his friends.  Are they going to have to say goodbye, or can Team Cockroach find a way to keep the band together?

That's what I took it as, too. While it's been 500+ years since a human ascended to The Good Place, it's a strong bet that NO demon has ever been there. Michael's likely wondering if he's earned the trip, as well. 

I can see this ending with him leaving the foursome behind to go back and oversee the testing for another eon or so, to feel like he's truly earned his place -- but then again, that's also why I suspect that won't happen. Because I've rarely predicted anything on this show.

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chaifan

chaifan

I'm hoping speculation about Michael being switched isn't correct.  No time for that at this point.

Good Place thoughts - if it's been 500 years since anyone got in, is the Good Place in perpetual Renaissance mode?  Will our merry gang arrive and realize there's no modern plumbing, no electricity, no internet?   Assuming it's a "modern" neighborhood, will it look like Michael's neighborhood?  If they deny us fabulous storefront name puns for the last hour of the show, then we're truly in the Bad Place.   I'm also hoping for a return of the shrimp dispenser.

The First 100 List:  Loved seeing Mr. Rogers on the blackboard.  But I was really hoping to see Mindy's name up there.  She really deserves to get out of the Middle Place.  I know, the First 100 are people who are unquestionably good.  But I thought that would be really a nice thing to do. 

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

5 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'm hoping speculation about Michael being switched isn't correct.  No time for that at this point.

Good Place thoughts - if it's been 500 years since anyone got in, is the Good Place in perpetual Renaissance mode?  Will our merry gang arrive and realize there's no modern plumbing, no electricity, no internet?   Assuming it's a "modern" neighborhood, will it look like Michael's neighborhood?  If they deny us fabulous storefront name puns for the last hour of the show, then we're truly in the Bad Place.   I'm also hoping for a return of the shrimp dispenser.

The First 100 List:  Loved seeing Mr. Rogers on the blackboard.  But I was really hoping to see Mindy's name up there.  She really deserves to get out of the Middle Place.  I know, the First 100 are people who are unquestionably good.  But I thought that would be really a nice thing to do. 

I also hope to see Mindy one last time.  This show is too well-plotted to leave Mindy and by association Derek hanging.  I don't know what will happen, but I bet we see them again.

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ClareWalks

ClareWalks

2 hours ago, BookThief said:

I just want to know what Janet could possibly not know that Alexa does!

I think she stopped uploading new info while on Earth, so she wouldn't have known what was happening between their arrival and whatever day she had to ask Alexa the question. Something like "Alexa, why is there an arrest warrant for Odell Beckham Jr?"

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iMonrey

iMonrey

My stupid DVR always cuts off the last few seconds of this show. And I have it set to record an extra 2 minutes, too. Damn NBC, how much extra time do I need to give this show? Did anything happen after the balloon took off? My recording stopped just as it was rising into the air.

I call BS on Jason having read Romeo and Juliet. In all modesty I'm much more literate than Jason and I can barely get through Shakespeare myself.

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Xantar

Xantar

OK, I have a theory for the final episodes and a thesis for how the show ends.

First of all, Team Cockroach is going to discover The Good Place isn't all it's cracked up to be. Maybe it will turn out to be super boring or maybe eternal paradise will turn out to be stagnant. I'm not exactly sure what.

So I think they are going to decide to leave. Together. And they'll come to the conclusion that as long as they have each other, they'll be fine.

This is the flipside of Season 1. Remember that in that season, the original four were explicitly chosen because their mere presence together would torture each other. Now they have spent so many lifetimes together that they would willingly offer themselves up to eternal torture for each other. They can get through anything as long as they have each other.

What is The Good Place? It's wherever our friends are.

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whiporee

whiporee

I should just be grateful for what we have, but I was completely underwhelmed by this one. More than any other in the series, and it's left me nervous about the end. Nearly everything in it seemed recycled, and what wasn't recycled felt rushed. Like they were speeding towards Golden Corral or something -- I get that you're in a hurry, but for this? MEJ acting like Fonzie, Vicky being Vicky again, Jason not being quite as dumb as he seems (I mean, we're on five or six times with that now) ... it all just felt lackluster. A lot of P&R shows felt that way to me -- heck, almost the entire Office run felt that way to me -- but with so much to do and so little time to do it, just none of it worked for me.

Also, the inconsistencies are really starting to show. Someone above was thankful Tahani passed her test, but she didn't. After all these lifetimes and all her "growth," she still couldn't think of a sincere nice thing to say about her sister. Eleanor still has trouble thinking past both herself and her past. Michael is still manipulative, and to be honest --- 

Okay, on one of the last episodes of The Andy Griffith Show (after Barney was gone and they were in color and pretty awful), a bad guy is getting away and Andy takes someone's gun and shoots at the car. The entire premise of the show was the opposite of that -- he was literally The Sheriff Who Didn't Carry a Gun. He had never drawn a pistol in any episode before that one. And in this stupid little scene, they threw away the show's bible because they just wanted to be done. 

That's how Michael telling Janet to shut up (and her just taking it) felt to me. Not in character, not in line with anything we know about either of them. But along those same lines, Michael just turning the project over to Vicky also felt out of place. As, honestly did his antagonism towards her.  He's never been an aggressive character, and here he was, being a lot of things he's not.* Drawing his pistol to shoot the bad guy driving away. 

So this leads me to three possibilities. The first -- and the one that follows the path they are on -- is the Good Place is going to be lackluster, and boring, and there will be something about the struggles of every day life that make the living worthwhile. Maybe something like Michael's version is better because there is something to care about, and in the real Good Place there isn't. This would be a severe attack on a lot of mainstream religion, and I'm not sure Mike (or NBC) really want that kind of fight.  

The second is we're at holy Mother Forking Shirtballs Part II, in which all of this has been Michael's evil plan, and that explains a lot of his reactions because he developed some degree of compassion for the four of them and he knows what is about to happen. That would be a very long con, but if you're immortal ...

The third is that we're in Newhart/ St. Elsewhere territory, where it all will have been some sort of dream of Eleanor's, so as she's getting closer to waking up things don't have to make sense. Time and coincidence often run together at the end of a dream, that this has all been about the reclamation of the soul of Eleanor Shellstrop. I'd be okay with that because I think there are lots of clues along the way, but I don't know how from a storytelling point you deal with the other POVs that have been included. 

I have loved this show. I'll miss it. It's made me feel good and think a whole bunch of times. But so far I've been let down by the way they're wrapping it up. Now, it's their story and they are allowed to tell it however they want, and not usually one to criticize. But I hope they do better than this episode showed, and I hope they've just been saving up for the end. Because to me at least, to do anything less  would take away from the overall thing they've created. It doesn't wipe it away, but a simplistic solution to everything they've been asking would certainly diminish it.  

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Traveller519

Traveller519

7 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

Did Michael spin the story of Sissyphus as something he enjoyed?

It's quite a common analogy that Sisyphus' rock represents a grand purpose. It's annoying and it never goes away and it's easy to hate in the moment, but when it's no longer there, life feels empty.

A common thing for people who made work their whole life and then can't figure out what to do in life. Jake in Everybody Wants Some!! talks about how Baseball is his rock in a Sisyphean struggle as part of his college application essay that required him make an analogy for his life to Greek Philosophy.

 

While I was very happy watching Vicky get turned into a pile of goo earlier this year, it was even better having her back. She'll be great in that role. And at the risk of costing myself some Good Place points, she looked fantastic! That Acid snake knows how to pick a skin suit! 

I appreciated the relative lack of drama, or twists and surprises. I still think we'll get some as we close out (the committee is obviously wholly incapable of running anything in the Good Place) but this was a nice set up to the finale

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The Companion

The Companion

16 hours ago, Linny said:

This episode was one of the quieter ones in tone, but it functioned as a tidy bridge between the gang's journey from saving humanity's afterlife and moving forward with their own. Now that the big macro problem has been resolved, it makes sense for Michael and Chidi to momentarily question what's to come for them personally, if they'll be fulfilled or be fulfilling. The big picture of The Good Place has centered around faith that things can improve, that we'll be okay, and now the characters are having to find that same trust on an individual level. 

 

I think that's right. This show has some really hilarious episodes, but they are so good because of the quieter ones. I think it is an interesting study on human nature. We often feel at sea after big events (good and bad) because we have been working towards something and now we don't know what to do. I also think this is a good point about bringing it back down the the individual level. If the series ended last night, it would have been so unsatisfying. We haven't been watching for years in the hopes that they fix the system. In the end, we watch to see what happens to these characters. 

14 hours ago, Harry24 said:

I think he yelled "Foles" this time.

We could not figure it out last night. That is amazing. 

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also hope to see Mindy one last time.  This show is too well-plotted to leave Mindy and by association Derek hanging.  I don't know what will happen, but I bet we see them again.

Still holding out for a shot of her doing Coke with a de-marb;eized Disco Janet. 

 

I do not want this show to end.

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Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

On 1/10/2020 at 10:31 PM, lucindabelle said:

Doesn’t the judge realize:l that if she erases the earth no more justified, or disco, or Tim Oliphant?

She did make the point about her petition to reboot Ally McBeal was going to be realized in a way by rebooting the entire universe. Maybe the Judge was willing to wait 14 billion years or however many Bearimys to see the new version of Timothy Olyphant?

8 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

If anything I think there me be a problem with the ACTUAL Good Place.   Like because no one has gone there for hundreds of years it is a virtual wasteland.   Worse then Cleveland.   Florida bad.   

I don't think it will be a wasteland or anything obviously bad on first sight, but I can see an existence totally free of challenge and struggle becoming depressingly boring in short order. Without conflict, what would there be to generate interest?

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cpcathy

cpcathy

I didn't enjoy this episode as much as last week's. I think the attraction is wearing off for me. I did enjoy everything Ted Danson did in the episode, and the "you suck" comment (or "she sucks," can't remember exactly) was tinged with Sam Malone vibes. I don't tend to know where they are going with the story, but I care less and less.

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Sarah 103

Sarah 103

 

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Great episode for Jason.  He does read books, sometimes!  For a second, I thought it was going to be revealed that he only knew about Romeo & Juliet thanks to the Leonardo DiCaprio/Claire Danes film back in the 90s, but I like that it went in another direction. 

I thought that's where it headed too! 

 

Affogato

Affogato

(edited)
6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

My stupid DVR always cuts off the last few seconds of this show. And I have it set to record an extra 2 minutes, too. Damn NBC, how much extra time do I need to give this show? Did anything happen after the balloon took off? My recording stopped just as it was rising into the air.

I call BS on Jason having read Romeo and Juliet. In all modesty I'm much more literate than Jason and I can barely get through Shakespeare myself

Edited by Affogato
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Of course creating her own test is Vicky's dream job! She is a strong independent acid snake in the body of a strong independent woman, and most importantly, an artist!

I suspect that the real Good Place wont be all that its cracked up to be, and the show will end with the gang fixing the Good Place next. I mean, they all found happiness and fulfillment in bettering themselves and working to improve things for others, so maybe a Good Place is a place where you are still learning and growing, even when everything is still basically awesome. 

Will Michael be allowed into the Good Place as a demon? He is a reformed demon who has certainly amassed enough points to get in (saving the world and all that) but has a demon ever been to the Good Place?

"On Earth I didnt know something once, so I had to ask Alexa. I felt dirty." Truly dark times for Janet. 

Look at Jason, actually pulling a pretty good psychology gambit to help Chidi, AND making a literary reference! He really has come a long way, not only selflessly helping people, but also using smarts to help them. 

The closer we get to the ending, the more I am not ready for this show to end! Its probably the right time, so that the concept doesent run past its due date, but I am not ready to leave quite yet!

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