S39.E12: Just Go For It

[bamlou]

5 hours ago, LanceM said:

They barely promoted it at all on social media. Elizabeth tweeted a post about how the tribe name was beautiful (because it was a reference to Jack's dad who passed away). That is it. What is their to question about their apologies?  They couldn't say anything publicly until the episode aired but they had already apologized to Kelly privately months prior.

If they’d already apologized moths prior, that’s news to me. I’d thought that the cast had been discussing privately only once the merge eps aired and they realized the extent to which Dan was making Kellee uncomfortable. Good to know if they had been having ongoing discussions previous to the show airing. 
 

Up until that ep, Missy, Elizabeth, Aaron, and even Dean were happily posting about the show each week on social media, and then went relatively quiet once the backlash hit. So it seemed  (and we were told) that they had a limited scope of the situation and only realized once they saw the episode too. Many of them seemed surprised until that episode aired. Now that we see Dan was removed from the game, it just makes me question what they actually understood at the time and how they didn’t put two and two together since then (with the tribal where the allegations against Dan were discussed) - just my perception of things, but I get that it’s all murky though how much anyone understood the full scope of things. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by bamlouie

[ProfCrash]

16 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I hate Janet working with Dan, but I give her the benefit of the doubt.  After her gaslighting, she might not know what the hell to believe.  

Also, even Kellee, the only one on record with a complaint was willing to work with Dan and target Missy.  Janet took one bullet for Kellee, Missy and Elizabeth.  I am not sure it is fair to expect her to keep taking bullets.  She stood up much stronger against Dan's groping than the women who were actually groped.

Karishma did clean up nice for jury duty.

100% agreed.

Even last night, Production did not tell the cast that Dan was pulled for inappropriate touching or violating his warning or anything along those lines. All the cast was told is that Dan was removed from the game and that was it. I think Janet figured out that it was because of the touching but Tommy went to "maybe someone was sick at home", apparently not grasping the difference between "left the game due to an emergency at home" and "removed from the game."

Janet believed Kellee, Missy, and Elisabeth and acted correctly based on what she was told. Then Missy and Elisabeth lied to Janet and Dan and confused the issue for Dan. Janet worked with Dan because she didn't see anything directly and because she was lied to by two of the "victims." Dan never touched Janet so she was fine with him on that level. The other ladies lied, so Janet was not as certain as she had been. I have no problem with how Janet played or her decisions. What appears black and white at home is far less black and white during the game.

I would love to see Janet win. She has played a very good game and has held her own physically. She has been kind and compassionate and an overall good person. She would be a great winner but that is not going to happen and we all know it. She is going to be the target at five.

Was the idol nullifier only usable for a certain number of tribals or was that usable up to 5?

[DEL901]

Based on the episode and that People reported that at least one of the cast witnessed the incident... and the fact that they were all sitting together when Jeff came to deliver the news...

My guess (and it is only a guess), is that production (after talking to the crew member and their legal team) called them all together and took them aside one by one to discuss what happened, leaving Dan until last.

When the incident was confirmed, that was all they needed to finally turf Dan.

[Slakkie]

I am going to believe that as they started going through tape as well as the incidents went through the HR red tape they started talking to all of the female members of the crew and someone came forward.  

Again just my thoughts on it but the timing makes sense because although for the viewers weeks have gone by in real time it was a shorter period and they had to look through the tape and interview.  Plus the players themselves did not help the situation. 

They should have removed him at the time of the incident and they did not so they had to take him out but they definitely screwed the pooch on this one and while the season itself is not stellar many of us who have had to deal with incidents like this it is quite interesting to see it play out and the reactions which mirror the real world

[Jeanne222]

We will find out what happened that Dan got the boot!  Remember that old saying...'Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead'!

Edited December 13, 2019 by Jeanne222

[JudyObscure]

42 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I hate Janet working with Dan, but I give her the benefit of the doubt.  After her gaslighting, she might not know what the hell to believe.  

Also, even Kellee, the only one on record with a complaint was willing to work with Dan and target Missy.  Janet took one bullet for Kellee, Missy and Elizabeth.  I am not sure it is fair to expect her to keep taking bullets.  She stood up much stronger against Dan's groping than the women who were actually groped.

Karishma did clean up nice for jury duty.

I didn't expect Janet to know all about Dan's groping or to take bullets for the other women.  I expected her to quit sitting beside and closely befriending a man who calls other people losers, cheers when people are voted out, looks down on people like Elaine, as a wierdo, and was an all around superior acting creep, all of that was in plain view for Janet. Seeing her be so friendly and close with him at the family visit was the last straw for me.  Plus the "stop the hate," business.  The young girls on the show may see her as a leader and mother figure, but she's none of that for me.

[BusyOctober]

Dan is a pervert.  He will never recognize what he did was inappropriate.  He will never feel contrite over his actions.  Maybe over the next week, there will be carefully crafted statements that contain "IF I made anyone uncomfortable, it wasn't my intention."  No, you asshole.  Your 'intention' was to make yourself feel powerful and get your rocks off by putting your hands where YOU wanted them to be.

I feel bad for his family for all the shame and vitriol that they will be exposed to over Dan's shitty behavior.  I won't be surprised if after the finale airs, there are some former clients of Dan's who come forward with their experiences.  Of course, those stories will be viewed with suspicion and incredulity because: "Why did they wait so long to come forward???", "Oh, now these 'victims' just want their 15 minutes of fame", "They are just being vindictive because they didn't get the jobs they wanted in the industry, and they are blaming Dan for their lack of talent."  (sigh)

As for Elaine getting a chance to play again, I have mixed feelings.  I'd love to see Elaine get a 2nd try, but it doesn't usually work out well for returning players.  When they are thrown in with "newbies", they have a huge target on their backs and get booted quickly (or at the very least, get relegated to the fringes of any real alliances).  I don't want Elaine to go through that emotional roller coaster.  She's too nice for that.

I guess I'm rooting for Janet at this point.  Therefore, I doubt she will win.  Noura is not only a fruit loop, but she is not a good player.  Tommy is meh.  Lauren irks the shit out of me.  Dean is...Dean.

Very lackluster season IMO as far as real gameplay goes.  

[Koalagirl]

12 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

We will find out what happened that Dan got the boot!  Remember that old saying...'Two can keep a secret if one of them are dead'!

Which is why the reunion is not going to be live.  For the time being, CBS wants to control the narrative and tape it so they can edit out anything they don’t want to get out to the public.  There might also be a legal reason behind it.  If cast members signed an NDA they might not be allowed to publicly speak about specifics on the outside.

[tvfanatic13]

Whaaaat??? I NEED to know what happened. I am sure he won’t be at the reunion now but damn. This is the shit I lose sleep over! 
I will miss Elaine. I hope that she returns for another chance.

[sigmaforce86]

The second the words came up on the screen I said (yelled nearly), I knew Kellee wasn't exaggerating and the other women downplayed what happened just for their own game.  Which is sad really, if the women had stuck together the first time Dan would have been out a lot sooner and his son would have been spared the embarrassment of that happy family visit sandwiched between two harassment claims.  The others seriously owe Kellee an apology for the way they backtracked at that tribal even if it was under the guise of "just gameplay"  Of course if Dan had gotten the boot that first time we'd never have known he'd do it again and we'd have been debating all of this in a different way but still.

I've been wondering about pay, wondering if the contract is written in such a way that Dan gets bupkis or does he drop down to "first voted out" status and everyone that left since gets bumped up one level?  Just one of those things that makes me curious.   I'll give zero chance of him being on the reunion show but I am also wondering will they address it at all then or let Kellee say anything about it (if she wants to) or just let the elephant hang out in the corner of the room unmentioned

I do think that this quote from Probst's E! interview is very, very (very) telling:

"When we first told Dan we were pulling him from the game, he was not happy. We talked through everything for quite a while, and by the time he got on the boat to leave he had calmed down and was actually very respectful as he departed."

Obviously he went into denial mode but the implication is he got heated about it since he had "calmed down" by the time he got on the boat.  But more that he was respectful as he departed  ..... which to me reads like he had not been respectful up to then and had maybe been at the very least argumentative before that.  I wouldn't be surprised if he took a: who me, they're lying, it was an accident, this is an overreaction stance trying to bully, bluster and bluff his way out of the whole thing.

[Maya]

Too bad the Dan thing didn’t take place during tribal council, we could have witnessed Aaron piping up from the jury that if anything inappropriate had happened, he would have known about it 😂😂

[Bryce Lynch]

20 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I didn't expect Janet to know all about Dan's groping or to take bullets for the other women.  I expected her to quit sitting beside and closely befriending a man who calls other people losers, cheers when people are voted out, looks down on people like Elaine, as a wierdo, and was an all around superior acting creep, all of that was in plain view for Janet. Seeing her be so friendly and close with him at the family visit was the last straw for me.  Plus the "stop the hate," business.  The young girls on the show may see her as a leader and mother figure, but she's none of that for me.

I have to disagree on that,  Sexual harassment is one thing, but forming alliances with douchebags who do all that other crap Dan did is part of the game.   

I just read her "Stop the hate" tweet and that was about Tommy, who she says "was huge trying to support her during tribal."   Did she ever make a "stop the hate" comment about Dan?

[sadiegirl1999]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

However, even as I state the above, it also doesn't mean that they didn't colossally screw up by waiting this long for another incident to happen before finally removing him. They had so many instances and production chose not to act until now, which is entirely on them. Had Dan been removed earlier, we'd likely have a very different finale upon us.

I haven’t watched since Kellee was voted off but I have been reading here and other places. 
 

Last night this was trending on Google! 
 

I have to say, they might be and should be facing an ENORMOUS lawsuit by this production member. 
 

Bc they had a chance to remove him and didn’t, therefore she wouldn’t have been harassed by him. 

[RescueMom]

13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I have to disagree on that,  Sexual harassment is one thing, but forming alliances with douchebags who do all that other crap Dan did is part of the game.   

I just read her "Stop the hate" tweet and that was about Tommy, who she says "was huge trying to support her during tribal."   Did she ever make a "stop the hate" comment about Dan?

She had one tweet where she said she loved ALL of her cast mates. 

Edited to add: I went back to double-check, and she did post clearly in a note on Twitter : "I love and respect my tribe mates, ALL OF THEM..." Sorry, don't know how to post the link.

Edited December 12, 2019 by RescueMom

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, Souris said:

Kellee’s statement.

I know I'll get dragged for this.  I liked Kellee, I felt bad for Kellee and I was rooting for Kellee.  But, IMO, she was part of the problem and enabled Dan a lot more than production did.

1) During a confessional, a production member asked her if she wanted them to step in and she said no.   

2) She talked about being strategic instead of emotional about the unwanted touching and then spoke to Lauren about targeting Missy, instead of Dan.   

In both of these instances, she was putting Dan's vote and her alliance with him ahead of protecting herself AND the other women from Dan's unwanted touching.  

Dan deserved to be ejected, but if none of the women are going to step up and ask for this and,  but instead, be willing to work with him, gaslight other women over the situation, and say  by their words and votes that they wanted him to stay in the game, then I don't think production had any business doing so.   

You can't  be strategic and uncooperative with TPTB about sexual harassment and then expect them to step in and fire/eject someone, AGAINST your expressed wishes.   

3) Kellee had the power to ensure the groper went home and no other women would be touched, while also ensuring her own safety, by playing one of her two idols.  But, again, she put strategy ahead of stopping the touching.

Also, she makes it sound like her speaking about the unwanted touching in her confessional got her voted out of the game.   That had nothing to do with in.  In fact, it was her being soft on Dan's abuse and telling Lauren that she wanted to vote out Missy that started the chain of events (including Missy and Elizabeth's disgusting behavior) that lead to her being voted out.  

[cheewhiz]

12 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

well blow me down and scatter my ashes.....

gonna be using this phrase daily! Love it

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

I think they didn’t show Dean finding his sneakers in order to leave time to show Probst telling them about Dan leaving.

Just another stupidly edited episode, IMO.  If they weren't going to show the fallout (if there was any) over Noura hiding Dean's precious shoes, then why show it at all?  Okay, great, Noura hid Dean's shoes.  Could be interesting, since Noura is nuts and Dean apparently loves his shoes.  And then?  Nothing.  Just another irritation in an already extremely frustrating season.

51 minutes ago, sigmaforce86 said:

I do think that this quote from Probst's E! interview is very, very (very) telling:

"When we first told Dan we were pulling him from the game, he was not happy. We talked through everything for quite a while, and by the time he got on the boat to leave he had calmed down and was actually very respectful as he departed."

My goodness.  This is interesting.  Of course I don't know what went down, but to say that Dan was not happy and had to be calmed down shows that Dan learned absolutely NOTHING from his warnings.  Nothing at all.  The fact that they had to, once agan, "talk through everything for quite awhile" tells me that Dan was probably very busy Dan-'splaining his reasons for every single touch - Kellee had sand in her hair!  I tripped and had to grab onto Noura so I didn't fall!  The shelter is dark and I didn't see Elizabeth's leg there!  Missy's toes had dirt on them, I was only brushing it off!  Based on what we've seen from him, this pattern of behavior has probably been going on for a very long time, and Dan had a prepared laundry list of excuses and reasons.

But to say that once he was on the boat headed home, he was "actually very respectful?"  Why does Probst feel any need whatsoever to sugarcoat Dan's actions AFTER he was told that there was no way he was going back to camp?  He was "actually very respectful" after he obviously blew up to the point of having to be calmed down in the first place.  Give me a break.  "Dan" and "respectful" do not belong in the same sentence.  I see no need for Probst to try and shine a pretty light on a predatory scumbag.  

I guess I don't care who wins anymore.  This season can just be over and I'll cleanse my palate by watching old seasons of my favorite show and hope that season 40 is not the end.

Edited December 12, 2019 by laurakaye

[Bryce Lynch]

I have very badly not wanted Tommy to win because of how arrogant he is.  But, after last night's episode, I am more disgusted by all the other idiots kissing his ass and not even considering the idea of voting him out.  

Lauren is worrying about Tommy choosing Dean to take her place at FTC (with good reason as that was his plan).  The glaringly obvious solution is to vote Tommy out take Dean there yourself.   

This reminds me so much of Redemption Island when Boston Rob's pathetic cult members handed him the victory.  But, this might be even worse.  Rob was a master manipulator and did things like the "buddy system" to keep people in line.   These idiots just seem to have it in their heads that Tommy is guaranteed as spot at FTC and he get to choose who goes with him.  

[JudyObscure]

26 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I have to disagree on that,  Sexual harassment is one thing, but forming alliances with douchebags who do all that other crap Dan did is part of the game.   

I just read her "Stop the hate" tweet and that was about Tommy, who she says "was huge trying to support her during tribal."   Did she ever make a "stop the hate" comment about Dan?

I'm not on twitter so just go by what is brought here, like the post above and one right after the big harassment TC show when everyone was hating Dan. 

I know people form alliances with creeps, but we always see interviews where they make it clear that the "friendship" is just for the game.  We saw Janet say she felt she had to back the girls even though Dan was her best friend in the game.  We saw her encourage Tommy to take Dan and son on the reward meal.  I think she's willing to overlook all his sneering and snide remarks for some reason, maybe she's as impressed with his job as he is,

[Special K]

"and was actually very respectful as he departed" = realized he was probably on the line for a big lawsuit.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, sigmaforce86 said:

The second the words came up on the screen I said (yelled nearly), I knew Kellee wasn't exaggerating and the other women downplayed what happened just for their own game.  Which is sad really, if the women had stuck together the first time Dan would have been out a lot sooner and his son would have been spared the embarrassment of that happy family visit sandwiched between two harassment claims.  The others seriously owe Kellee an apology for the way they backtracked at that tribal even if it was under the guise of "just gameplay"  Of course if Dan had gotten the boot that first time we'd never have known he'd do it again and we'd have been debating all of this in a different way but still.

I've been wondering about pay, wondering if the contract is written in such a way that Dan gets bupkis or does he drop down to "first voted out" status and everyone that left since gets bumped up one level?  Just one of those things that makes me curious.   I'll give zero chance of him being on the reunion show but I am also wondering will they address it at all then or let Kellee say anything about it (if she wants to) or just let the elephant hang out in the corner of the room unmentioned

I do think that this quote from Probst's E! interview is very, very (very) telling:

"When we first told Dan we were pulling him from the game, he was not happy. We talked through everything for quite a while, and by the time he got on the boat to leave he had calmed down and was actually very respectful as he departed."

Obviously he went into denial mode but the implication is he got heated about it since he had "calmed down" by the time he got on the boat.  But more that he was respectful as he departed  ..... which to me reads like he had not been respectful up to then and had maybe been at the very least argumentative before that.  I wouldn't be surprised if he took a: who me, they're lying, it was an accident, this is an overreaction stance trying to bully, bluster and bluff his way out of the whole thing.

I wish we could see video of Dan melting down when the told him he was out.  I can imagine the denials, the lame excuses and the rage.  

3 minutes ago, Special K said:

"and was actually very respectful as he departed" = realized he was probably on the line for a big lawsuit.

He probably also realized that he was being recorded and that production had a lot of footage of him touching women that they could make public.   

Edited December 12, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[truthaboutluv]

Well I'm sure it's all been said already. I was out and missed the episode as it aired. As soon as I got home and saw on social media that a player had been ejected from the game, I knew it was Dan.

As the episode went on, I was starting to wonder if when and how it happened, since we were in the last five minutes and the episode was moving along as is. I do find it interesting that they kept the situation so vague, only writing a note at the end. I'm assuming maybe the crew member (who I'm assuming was the one who accused Dan) didn't want things played out onscreen. 

I would like to say I'm surprised but please, Dan's sleaze was obvious and I said as much weeks ago when the situation first came up. Will be very interesting to see what the cast  members say once the season is done and how this is handled, if at all, at the live reunion. 

Meanwhile, as for the actual game itself. Cannot believe Nutty Nora and Dean have made it to the Final 5. But then again, I sort of can. Rob mocking on Dean's flexing was hilarious. And I actually think 'ol Dean might somehow slither his way into the Final 4.

He might be peaking in the game at just the right time. And honestly, annoying as he may be, I'd take Dean over Tommy who just freaking bugs me. Hell I'd take any of the five left winning over Tommy. A Noura win would be hilarious. 

And hindsight is 20/20 and why this game is so frustrating but fun at the same time, because regarding the Dan issue, again I can't help thinking that if Kellee had just played one of her TWO damn idols, Dan would have been eliminated many episodes ago and who knows how the rest of the season would have played out. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[sadiegirl1999]

”I wish we could see video of Dan melting down when the told him he was out.  I can imagine the denials, the lame excuses and the rage.“

THIS! 
 

Screw the “I want to see video of what Dan did” crap. We already have enough evidence of that (and there’s probably more on the editing room floor, let’s be honest) 

I want video of Dan melting down! Tired of the show protecting him. 
 

Zeke said it best on Twitter: “Shame on you, Survivor “. 

[ProfCrash]

19 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm not on twitter so just go by what is brought here, like the post above and one right after the big harassment TC show when everyone was hating Dan. 

I know people form alliances with creeps, but we always see interviews where they make it clear that the "friendship" is just for the game.  We saw Janet say she felt she had to back the girls even though Dan was her best friend in the game.  We saw her encourage Tommy to take Dan and son on the reward meal.  I think she's willing to overlook all his sneering and snide remarks for some reason, maybe she's as impressed with his job as he is,

Or maybe she understands that just because you see something in someone doesn't mean that they are not capable of being an asshole to others.

I have a friend who told me about some harassment she experienced. She came forward when the metoo movement kicked off. I believe her because she is someone I trust to not lie about these things and because she had mentioned it long before coming out publicly. We have mutual friends who work with the accused who cannot believe that he did what my friend said he did because they never saw it and he was always fine with them. Mind you, there were two investigations and multiple accusers and my friends story was found to be truthful. Our mutual friends still say they don't believe it because that was not the person that they know.

While Janet did not see anything or experience anything, she believed Kellee, Missy, and Janet and voted for Dan. She flat out said that he could not stay in the game if he was making other people uncomfortable. After the vote, Missy and Elisabeth changed their stories. Their new story reinforced Janet's perception, that Dan was fine. So Janet was willing to work with Dan because Elisabeth and Missy said that they had lied to her and that Dan did not make them uncomfortable.

Janet did not see the footage that we saw. She never witnessed the harassment and was never harassed. Expecting her to carry on as if Dan was awful in the game is unreasonable.

I don't know what to make of her comment that she loves all her castmates. Unless Dan told her that he had been removed for touching/harassing a staff member, Janet would not have known why he was gone until tonight.

A different example but think of all the interviews with the neighbor or friends of mass shooters who will tell you that they never would have guessed that said person was homicidal. Many times people are caught off guard. Or when someone commits suicide. All we have is our perceptions of people based on our interactions with them. There are times that we are shocked because we are presented with evidence that something is wrong that we never saw.

Edited December 12, 2019 by ProfCrash

[Bryce Lynch]

29 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Dan was probably very busy Dan-'splaining his reasons for every single touch -

You win the forum today!  

[Josh371982]

37 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I have very badly not wanted Tommy to win because of how arrogant he is.  But, after last night's episode, I am more disgusted by all the other idiots kissing his ass and not even considering the idea of voting him out.  

Lauren is worrying about Tommy choosing Dean to take her place at FTC (with good reason as that was his plan).  The glaringly obvious solution is to vote Tommy out take Dean there yourself.   

This reminds me so much of Redemption Island when Boston Rob's pathetic cult members handed him the victory.  But, this might be even worse.  Rob was a master manipulator and did things like the "buddy system" to keep people in line.   These idiots just seem to have it in their heads that Tommy is guaranteed as spot at FTC and he get to choose who goes with him.  

I even commented on this digustingness on JokersUpdates. Saying "LOL at these idiots fighting over who gets to sit with Tommy at the end instead of voting his ass out cause why be Smart?"

[sigmaforce86]

6 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

While Janet did not see anything or experience anything, she believed Kellee, Missy, and Janet and voted for Dan. She flat out said that he could not stay in the game if he was making other people uncomfortable. After the vote, Missy and Elisabeth changed their stories. Their new story reinforced Janet's perception, that Dan was fine. So Janet was willing to work with Dan because Elisabeth and Missy said that they had lied to her and that Dan did not make them uncomfortable.

OMG I am so glad you said this.  I was debating whether to ask here or in another topic whether I was remembering this correctly - that Missy and Elisabeth had their own experiences with Dan and downplayed it changing the story only after the vote (to, in my opinion, save their games).  Only because this is how the MSN article from today was phrased:       Tribemates Missy Byrd and Elizabeth Beisel then made up their own complaints to manipulate other players to vote out Dan, and it became a giant mess,

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/survivor-removes-a-player-from-the-game-for-the-first-time-ever/ar-AAK1ZFL

And the minute I read it I thought no they didn't make it up they backtracked.  But then I wondered if I was remembering that episode wrong which is why I was happy to see your comment.    And that, to me, is a problem.  By backtracking people could say well if you take it back or downplay it or say it wasn't as bad as you thought or whatever excuse you make then it probably is reasonable for MSN to use the words "made up" which makes the whole thing sound like a false accusation.  The game play makes for this twisted narrative of what is a real world, outside of strategy, this happened scenario and what is an outwit, I exaggerated, moving my game forward scenario.  I disagree with MSN's wording, I wish they had chosen something less definite than "made up" but it's weird uncharted territory to have this happen in a situation where things are made up as people push their game forward.  There's just a huge difference between made up I went to island of the idols and had to draw a rock to win an advantage and made up he touched me, no he didn't, yes he did.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Josh371982 said:

I even commented on this digustingness on JokersUpdates. Saying "LOL at these idiots fighting over who gets to sit with Tommy at the end instead of voting his ass out cause why be Smart?"

This season's castaways seem to have an aversion to being smart.  

[Bryce Lynch]

So is Janet going to get voted out at 5 (by Dean's idol nullifier) instead of a making the Final 4, winning at fire building (she made fire in episode 1 without flint) going to FTC and winning, because of a freaking coin flip?  

They really need to drastically reduce the number of gimmicks in the game.  

Ironically, Dan getting ejected for sexual harassment is probably going to screw the one woman who heroically stood up for the other women against him.   

If Dan had stayed in the game, Dean might have tried to draw the votes to himself, to make the "big move" of playing the real fake legacy advantage (after playing the fake fake legacy advantage) and gotten a horrible surprise when Probst threw it into the fire.  
 

Now that there is no Final 6 TC, Dean won't have the chance to embarrass himself and Janet will probably get voted out next week when her idol gets nullified.   

[LizBug]

A few other thoughts:

** Why does everyone assume Tommy is going to the end?  He isn't exactly a challenge beast.

**. Did anyone else see Noura walk up to Dan in camp and give him a hug?  

**  Wish there would be a water/swimming challenge now ... something that Janet might be able to win.

**. Was Dan's inappropriate touching of the production person the first time that happened?  Or had he been touching that person (and perhaps others) on other occasions?  

**. Will the Jamal/Jack bonding moments be celebrated or ignored at the Reunion show?

[JudyObscure]

33 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Janet did not see the footage that we saw. She never witnessed the harassment and was never harassed. Expecting her to carry on as if Dan was awful in the game is unreasonable.

None of my criticisms of Janet have had a thing to do with Dan's sexual harassment.  I've made that clear in every post.  Dan has been seen by us, with Janet present, calling Elaine a loser and calling Noura, Karishma and Elaine together losers and weirdos.  We've seen him, with Janet present, jeering as people are voted off, making faces behind their backs, treating and speaking of Karishma as though she was so far beneath him as to be practically inhuman.  Dan was awful in the game in ways that had nothing to do with the touching.  

[Carolina Girl]

12 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I’ve watched this show from the very first episode. This is not my Survivor. It used to be a show I’d watch with my son or talk about at work the next day. This year makes me feel like I need a shower. And a no pest strip. And a second chance for Kellee who had her game blown up by a pervert and two shady women.

Fuck you Probst and CBS. 

Yeah, I have to agree with you.  I have always looked forward to the BEGINNING of the Survivor Season and then end up checking out when it's down to the final 5 or so because I can't stand any of the remaining contestants - but I had some high hopes this time.  I feel like Charlie Brown playing football with Lucy.  I was hoping that Elaine or Janet would be at the final and there would be a good person to work for.  I'm not on the Noura love train, but she'd be preferable to Tommy or Dean.  

I am seriously debating whether to just remove Survivor from the DVR, and hope that Amazing Race is back soon.

[JudyObscure]

12 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

So is Janet going to get voted out at 5 (by Dean's idol nullifier)

I hate that idol nullifier crapola! There should never be something that sets people up for failure so completely through no fault of their own.  It's a Big Brother level "twist." 

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

None of my criticisms of Janet have had a thing to do with Dan's sexual harassment.  I've made that clear in every post.  Dan has been seen by us, with Janet present, calling Elaine a loser and calling Noura, Karishma and Elaine together losers and weirdos.  We've seen him, with Janet present, jeering as people are voted off, making faces behind their backs, treating and speaking of Karishma as though she was so far beneath him as to be practically inhuman.  Dan was awful in the game in ways that had nothing to do with the touching.  

I agree that, even without the touching, Dan was an ass.  But, a lot of other people were mean to Karishma and others, including Noura and Missy.  

Janet blew up her own game to stand up against Dan and he would have been gone if she got her way and Elizabeth, Missy, Elaine, Tommy, Dean, Aaron and Lauren hadn't backed Dan and voted out Kellee.   

After that, Janet was a woman without a country.  She was an outcast and slept on the beach by herself.  She had to regroup however she could.

Also,  a lot of Dan's comments and reactions at TCs were probably not apparent to other players.  They were looking at Probst and the votes, and didn't have closeups of Dan, like we did.  

15 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I hate that idol nullifier crapola! There should never be something that sets people up for failure so completely through no fault of their own.  It's a Big Brother level "twist." 

Well, you could argue that the nullifier crapola is a antidote to the idol crapola.  What bothers me most is that a coin flip is probably going to cost Janet Sole Survivor and a million dollars. 

[zscore]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I have very badly not wanted Tommy to win because of how arrogant he is.  But, after last night's episode, I am more disgusted by all the other idiots kissing his ass and not even considering the idea of voting him out.  

I think Tommy somehow convinced people that he's really not a threat and everyone else thinks they can beat him. On paper he hasn't really done anything. He never won immunity, never had an idol or advantage, never really made a big move at TC. He's also not a big jury threat the level of Elaine or Janet. He was only targeted last week because Lauren won immunity, so Lauren was always considered more dangerous than Tommy.

I'd be impressed if he can win without ever having individual immunity or idol. Not many people have done that.

[tvgoddess]

9 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Thank God for Rob and Sandra. This season would have been lost without them.  But as for the cooking, twenty bucks says that was staged for the camera.  Fiji Doordash dropped that food off 10 minutes before.

I've seen him cook at home too on Instagram which prompted me to want him giving me a cooking lesson (I can't cook!) I don't think everything is as staged as everyone wants it to be. Rob genuinely loves being out there.

Edited December 12, 2019 by tvgoddess

[RedbirdNelly]

Sad to see Elaine go but it was obvious at that tribal. If she thought she had a possible chance to not leave, then she completely screwed up at tribal with the waterworks. I assumed the fact it was such a lovefest meant everyone there had just about pledged to vote for her no matter what and the editing was just trying to make me think there was a chance something else had happened.

Glad to see Dan is gone but there was part of me that for a second wanted it to somehow mean Elaine was back--as someone else put it, a newly created Tim Gunn save--that there was some reason the circumstances of the Dan pull nullified that vote.

[amazingracefan]

The tests on Island of the Idols seem very cheap (here a coin toss).  Did Sandra, Rob and their statues really take up all the budget...

[Josh371982]

1 hour ago, DallasGypsy said:

A few other thoughts:

** Why does everyone assume Tommy is going to the end?  He isn't exactly a challenge beast.

**. Did anyone else see Noura walk up to Dan in camp and give him a hug?  

**  Wish there would be a water/swimming challenge now ... something that Janet might be able to win.

**. Was Dan's inappropriate touching of the production person the first time that happened?  Or had he been touching that person (and perhaps others) on other occasions?  

**. Will the Jamal/Jack bonding moments be celebrated or ignored at the Reunion show?

Cause NO ONE is throwing his name out for eviction, last I checked you dont need to be a challenge beast to win the game  and we literally see everyone sharing everything with him, we seen Lauren and Dean fighting to be his biggest goat etc. 

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I hate that idol nullifier crapola! There should never be something that sets people up for failure so completely through no fault of their own.  It's a Big Brother level "twist." 

I hope Dean does use it on Janet cause then followed by her alienation cahse there's more evidence hes a moron playing for Tommy 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Josh371982

[zoltana]

Someone else may have already found this, but I got this from people.com (https://people.com/tv/survivor-finale-pre-taped-after-dan-spilo-removal/)

While details about the mysterious “incident” were not given, multiple people involved with the show’s production confirmed to PEOPLE that the incident happened after an immunity challenge as Spilo and other contestants were getting into a boat to transport them back to the camp.

While getting into the boat, Spilo allegedly touched a female crew member on the leg. He insisted that the contact was accidental, according to multiple sources, but the show’s production team wasn’t convinced of that and after consulting with the show’s legal team, producers decided to remove him from the show.

At least one of the remaining contestants witnessed the incident. Sources close to Spilo say that he vehemently disagreed with the decision to remove him from the game.

[Otherkate]

Dan couldn't even stop sexually harassing women for the chance at a million freaking dollars. That is one disturbed dude.

Why are they all resigned to taking Tommy? Why is Dean, of all people, going on a run? Make it stop.

I think we may see returns from Kellee and Elaine. Maybe even Janet. 

[Bouffe]

10 hours ago, lyric said:

FFS. Setting aside they had TAPED EVIDENCE of Dan's groping, Kellee's direct request to him to cut that shit out, and his subsequent unwanted touching - how about we just try believing women the first time? This isn't hard. Damn.

Oh, and all of this grossness overshadowed Elaine's TC - one of the most authentic and endearing moments this show has ever had.

I am SO glad you mentioned how the whole saga overshadowed Elaine's exit. I felt the exact same way. I even said out loud, thank you fucking much, D bag. I wish Elaine had not gone on to talk about her mother, but I think she knew she was toast anyway and she just let it all out. She was my favourite this season. Hopefully she'll be brought back on another season.

I am disappointed the show didn't boot Dan right after Kelley's complaints. As you said, they had taped evidence and still gave him a chance. He should not have had that chance to stay in the game, disrupt everybody else's game with his eviction, and most of all, should not have had the chance to touch another female.

I can understand the show and Jeff not wanting to say much right now; there most certainly are legal ramifications that we are not privy to. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

After that, Janet was a woman without a country.  She was an outcast and slept on the beach by herself.  She had to regroup however she could.

Janet said she was an outcast and everyone hated her, but no one agreed with her and she chose to sleep on the beach. Some might call it pouting. 

What was that all about?  Janet had a very admirable moment when she said she would have to believe the young women and take their side against Dan.  Then she went to Tribal and found out they were using her and instead of getting angry at them she started crying about how they didn't like her now.  That's when I first said, "What the heck, Janet?"

She should have been furious with Missy and Elizabeth and instead she's crawling off to the beach to cry about her loss of popularity.  The only one who should have been angry at her was Dan (if he really had been innocent) and he seemed quickly over it.

Everyone has had their game blown up a few times this season, been lied to and outside the vote, and screwed over by Dean or Noura.  They don't go sleep on the beach and say everybody hates me now.  Even Karishma wasn't that bad.  It makes me wonder if this was the first time in Janet's life that she wasn't  standing on a pedestal set a little above everyone else.

[TVFan1]

If Lauren somehow takes Tommy out, I would like to see her win.

[simplyme]

5 minutes ago, TVFan1 said:

If Lauren somehow takes Tommy out, I would like to see her win.

I'm having visions of this turning into another Gabon for me. I still feel like they should just have given the money to one of the gorillas that season. I'm pretty sure the jury would have voted that way if they could have.

[treeofdreams]

I would wager that no one from this season, especially anyone involved even marginally in Dangate, will be invited to return for another season.  It would just remind everyone of what happened, and Survivor would not want that.

[Special K]

11 minutes ago, treeofdreams said:

I would wager that no one from this season, especially anyone involved even marginally in Dangate, will be invited to return for another season.  It would just remind everyone of what happened, and Survivor would not want that.

You're probably right, but I'd still like it if Kellee would get another shot, on a "second chances" season or something.  And Elaine of course.  I hope and expect she will be invited back.  She is absolutely Survivor gold.

[iMonrey]

Quote

My son is convinced that all of the slips in that Island of the Idols bag read "Dean."  Random draw his ass.  I'm not sure if they all read Dean but I definitely wouldn't put it past them to only have names in there who hadn't been before.  Maybe just Dean & Tommy...everyone else had been, right?

Yeah. Isn't it luckly/a coincidence that nobody has been selected to go to IofI twice? And that everyone who hasn't been there yet is still in the dark about Rob and Sandra being there? I mean . . . c'mon. How dumb does this show think I am? Oh, wait. I'm still watching it, aren't I? 

Noura is a weirdo for sure but I did get a kick out of Jeff asking her at TC "So where are we at this point in the game" and her answering "Um . . . at Tribal Council?" 

Quote

 I have always looked forward to the BEGINNING of the Survivor Season and then end up checking out when it's down to the final 5 or so because I can't stand any of the remaining contestants - but I had some high hopes this time.  I feel like Charlie Brown playing football with Lucy. 

The problem is that the more twists and gimmicks the show throws into the game the worse it gets. It doesn't really benefit anyone except maybe the producers who just want to keep shaking things up because they think it's more interesting to ruin anyone's plans or game play by switching tribes or giving immunity idols to whoever's the next target. 

So in the end it all comes down to dumb luck more than anything else.

[ChicksDigScars]

15 hours ago, dbell1 said:

I’ve watched this show from the very first episode. This is not my Survivor. It used to be a show I’d watch with my son or talk about at work the next day. This year makes me feel like I need a shower. And a no pest strip. And a second chance for Kellee who had her game blown up by a pervert and two shady women.

Fuck you Probst and CBS. 

Yep. For me, the shark jumped the minute they said "Rob and Sandra return." I haven't watched much, but have kept up with Twitter comments and comments here both times that Dan fucked up.  Am I surprised that they let this creep stay to get busted a second time? Nope. This is the same show that excused every naked moment Richard Hatch had, including rubbing his naked nuts up against Susan, and treated HER like the unstable shrew that called it out. BIG shock that even after #MeToo, they still think the same way. 

[HurricaneVal]

Setting aside everything else that happened last night (and, WOW)...

Can we get some love for whoever designed that challenge?  Yeah, yeah, it was a typical "do this obstacle course bit, free some puzzle pieces, and put a puzzle together" challenge, but this one was very well thought out for our viewing pleasure.  I did wonder at them only having to symbolically untie one single puzzle piece to join the rest of them waiting at the end, but then I realized maybe in the trial runs, requiring them to pick up multiple puzzle pieces may have been impossible.

Because.  Dude.  That un-spooling rope spinning thing to start the whole thing was brilliant!  OMG.  Then, not only is your head spinning from that, you then step onto extremely bouncy netting that further affects your equilibrium, then you have to do a ramping, zig-zagging balance beam, stopping halfway to untie a puzzle piece....  All that was comedy gold, and I sincerely thank the challenge designer for that. 

But then look at the sneaky detail at the end, with how the puzzle pieces were cut.  Survivor word puzzles always incorporate the catch phrases of the show.   "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast" usually always show up during these word challenges, but the challenge designer cut the phrase "this game will mess with your mind" such that "WIT" from "with" was kept together.  Which served as a huge red herring for most of the players.  Look at how far along Elaine and Dean were compared to the rest of the players.  I think that "WIT" did its job distracting everyone else into trying to make an "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast" phrase out of their pieces.

Brilliant!

Edited December 12, 2019 by HurricaneVal
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