S04.E04: Flip a Coin

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

10/15/2019 (09:00PM - 10:01PM) (Tuesday) : Kevin reflects on his past. Rebecca visits Randall at college. Beth's mom comes to visit. Kate and Toby share new experiences with Baby Jack.

[ShadowFacts]

I really like that Nicky opened up a little about his trailer, and that Kevin bought himself one.  It was also great to see some self-awareness in several of the characters and their ability to apologize, from Kate to Beth's mom to Randall.  Also sweet to see teen Kate want her mother to be happier.

[ams1001]

"C'mon, Hollywood Douchebag."

Why did Randall and Beth look at Deja like they're surprised she has friends? Randall dragged her down there specifically to meet Skye last year and we saw them together in the season premiere so obviously they became friends. And she was at the party with her so it's not like she hasn't gone out with friends since they moved.

Yeah, Little Jack...I'd scream, too, at that screeching lady and her ukelele. (And plenty of babies with perfect vision would freak out at that scene, too, so calm the fuck down, Kate. Not every bad reaction the kid has to something is because he couldn't see it coming. Sometimes noise is just distressing, especially when you're a new, tiny person. Or, y'know, a 44-year-old.)

Three hours to kill? Go to a movie or something, geez.

The whole scene with Randall and Rebecca at the college made me cringe.

"This is my dad, Randall. Randall please don't do anything weird." Well, after the above college scene, I guess we know where he gets it.

"Untitled Hot Babysitter Pilot"

[chitowngirl]

The show is settling in nicely for this season’s stories.

It’s so sad of the relationship that was lost with Nicky and Jack.

The first time I took my toddlers to Chuck E Cheese, they freaked out. So much noise!! I don’t think they got out of the stroller. They were much happier at the bookstore next store.

Edited October 16, 2019 by chitowngirl

[Dreamboat Annie]

Well, now.  That was loaded.

[debraran]

Liked this show but the scenes seem so short sometimes. I liked seeing Kate having a job and a boyfriend and I wonder what makes her spiral later, he leaves her? She goes from a somewhat well adjusted teen to sitting outside her old house eating every year and by early 20's is very overweight. Interesting to see how they play that.

Kevin is very endearing and I would like to see where they duel trailers goes to later, and I loved Nicky's "That's still on?" in regard to his show. ; )

Phylicia nails Beth's mom and she did a great performance in my eyes.

I'm intrigued at Randall's interactions with Tess next week and his performance was a bit lacking to me tonight, just his usual controlling nature but I enjoyed the others.

The "do you want your husband" I feel was to make it seem like they wont be together later, but they will. Time will tell.

Edited October 16, 2019 by debraran

[Spartan Girl]

That last bit with Kevin and the baby on The Manny was gold, as well as Kate and Rebecca dancing together. 

Loved Rebecca connecting with Beth's mom about losing their husbands.

Wow, so Teen Kevin just eloped with Sophie and just called them about it after? Sheesh.

I don't blame Beth and Randall for freaking out when they found out about Malik's baby. They still ought to give him a chance because forbidding Deja from seeing him won't turn out well.

Again, I really reeeeeally don't want Kevin and Cassidy together. What is it about Jennifer Morrison that she always plays characters that are hard to like. Anyway, I hope she works things out with her husband.

[CleoCaesar]

Either I'm getting soft or this was a pretty good episode. It was a nicely paced mix of all the characters and no one was off-the-charts annoying.

That being said, anything concerning Nicky can easily be cut and the show will not suffer.

Since they made a point of saying Cassidy wants her husband back, hopefully they won't pair Kevin and Army McFrownsALot.

Teen Kate and her mother getting along? What??

Adult Kate and Toby's fight in the car really made me think "yeah, these two are going to get divorced eventually". Sure, she apologized but the passive-aggressive remark about the gym, the personal attacks, the condescending disregard of Toby's parenting abilities, the misdirected obsession with Bunny... get thee to a marriage councilor, Kate.

[Jax7917]

Cassidy needs some makeup . She has that permanent frown that’s glued to her face and she’s not too appealing . I also hate when new characters on shows are so nasty to the main character /future love interest but then the predictability sets in and they warm up to them . It’s just so cliche . 
 

so now every time Kate’s baby cries , it’s because he’s blind and not because he’s a newborn baby who’s main job it is to cry ? I understand how hard it must be for her , but she needs to take into account that babies cry and it’s not always related to him being blind 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Jaclyn88

[Bulldog]

Really good episode.  Favorite moment was Beth yelling across the room that the exterminator said it was just one possum.

[Spencer Hastings]

Kate and Toby are doomed.  I would’ve been relieved in Season 1 because I hated Toby but at this point he needs to just save himself if she’s already melting down over Monkey 1 and Monkey 2. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Spencer Hastings

[Ohmo]

Hollywood Douchebag money.  I have to give credit to Kevin.  I know Nicky doesn't want a new trailer, but at least Kevin is self-aware enough that he knows he makes a crap ton of cash, and he knows that he has the means to help his family members.  They have the right to refuse it, but Kevin could be a real douchebag and not even offer.  Let's be real.  Money makes life easier, so good for Kevin for being willing to share his wealth, whether his family chooses to take him up on it or not.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Ohmo

[Lady Calypso]

Not a horrible episode. I grew to tolerate Cassidy a little bit more. I like that she got to see Kevin's charm and how he quickly snapped from being annoyed at Cassidy to having to be "on" with one of his fans. Seeing him change on a dime just shows how long he's been doing it. 

Plus, we got a new flashback time period with Kevin's pilot on The Manny!

And I hope that this is a hint that Cassidy/Kevin won't be romantically involved, but he'll be her supporter and help her try to get her husband back by getting better.

The Randall/Beth flashback stuff was nice. Rebecca met Carol and they got to talk about the loss of their husbands. Of course, that led Carol to tell Beth to not go out with Randall, which we already knew wouldn't stick. 

Kate/Toby have a hard day as parents. But at least it ended on a nice note. I assume they'll get into more fights because taking care of a baby must be tough.

Yes! We're finally getting into the Married Teen Kevin saga! I've been waiting for them to explore that for a couple of seasons, at least.

[LaJefaza]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Again, I really reeeeeally don't want Kevin and Cassidy together. What is it about Jennifer Morrison that she always plays characters that are hard to like. Anyway, I hope she works things out with her husband.

And we know this show has no issue sticking Kevin with unpleasant partners. Remember the dreadful Olivia from season one? I spent so long worrying she would come back. Shudder.

Teen Kevin calling to say "...oh and by the way, I eloped, can I have some money?" was hilarious.

I KNEW Kate would go there with Toby about him going to the gym. I KNEW it. He knew damn well why he had to hide it from her. I'm glad she apologized, but this is definitely not the last time she'll lash out at him over it. Toby going to the gym is yet another thing that is 'happening to her'. He is losing weight AT her, apparently. I just wish she would relax just a little. Last week she looked so pretty in that dress she wore to the lunch with Toby's clients, and she looked especially stunning in the 'Manny' flashbacks with Kevin. She's beautiful, but is too angry at the world to see it. Right now she and Cassidy are fighting hard for the title of most unpleasant character. I know Kate is under a lot of new mom stress, but I can't help but think this would have been her reaction to Toby no matter when he started losing weight. There would never have been a time when she wouldn't take it personally.

On another note, Randall was right to call his mother-in-law regal. Phylicia Rashad has always been beautiful, but tonight in her flashback scenes at the college with Rebecca and teen Randall and Beth... my goodness. This woman just gets better with age. The woman is 71! How many 71-year-olds do you know who could play the mother of a teenager?! Just drop dead gorgeous.

Edited October 16, 2019 by LaJefaza

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Cassidy needs some makeup . She has that permanent frown that’s glued to her face and she’s not too appealing .

She's a recovering alcoholic with PTSD.  She's got other things going on than pretending to look happy to please other people.  I haven't warmed up to the character and never liked the characer she played on House.  So I doubt I will.  However, it isn't because she looks miserable.  Her character's whole world is falling apart.  She is miserable.  

[ProudMary]

48 minutes ago, Sarah Heart said:

The scenes with Nicky were better, I'm wondering  if Sally is still alive.

Oh, I'm sure she is. If there's one thing this show needs it's more characters. 🙄

[JKL845]

This show does a remarkable job with casting. Young Beth is spot on, with her mannerisms and how much she looks like Beth, The big three at all their stages, really well done. I like all the younger kids, not so much adult Kate and Randall right now but all the rest are so good.

[bros402]

That was a good episode. We need more Tim Omundson, though.

Also, Kate and Toby need to see a therapist - the divorce rate is much higher in families where a child as a disability - and Kate and Toby are already displaying some of the signs of it, they need to communicate, they need some time to themselves. They need to take advantage of having Rebecca there and let her take Jack for a bit.

And I think most babies would cry at the sudden instrument playing right in their face! Babies randomly cry! Some are a bit more sensitive to noise than others! Jack Jr is, what, 6 months old at the latest? His job is still to cry!

[MsJamieDornan]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not a horrible episode. I grew to tolerate Cassidy a little bit more. I like that she got to see Kevin's charm and how he quickly snapped from being annoyed at Cassidy to having to be "on" with one of his fans. Seeing him change on a dime just shows how long he's been doing it. 

I took it as Kevin was showing her that even though you're having a shitty day, you can be nice to people.

[GSMHvisitor]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yes! We're finally getting into the Married Teen Kevin saga! I've been waiting for them to explore that for a couple of seasons, at least.

Me too! But I'm very sceptical if they will thoroughly explore it. I want to see the wedding itself and all that led up to it, actually SEE it and not just have it recounted as they tell the family. It seems to me that next week will be all about the reaction of the family. From the promo teen Kate's story already seems more front and center than Kevin's. But what I really need is some real insight into teen Kevin & Sophie's relationship. Also can teen Sophie finally be allowed to be more than Kevin's arm candy? I want some real focus on their relationship for once. Teen Sophie first appeared in s1, but we have seen nothing of their relationship so far.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

That was a good episode. We need more Tim Omundson, though.

Also, Kate and Toby need to see a therapist - the divorce rate is much higher in families where a child as a disability - and Kate and Toby are already displaying some of the signs of it, they need to communicate, they need some time to themselves. They need to take advantage of having Rebecca there and let her take Jack for a bit.

And I think most babies would cry at the sudden instrument playing right in their face! Babies randomly cry! Some are a bit more sensitive to noise than others! Jack Jr is, what, 6 months old at the latest? His job is still to cry!

I thought that class didn't resemble any I've seen and a little over the top to make a point. My kids weren't blind but would cry with that lady yelling and jumping around. ; )

I hope Tim helps with some comedy levity with Kate and Toby and maybe helps Kate with talking and walking and discussing things as a bystander. We don't know his background so maybe he will help in some way.

Sally, of course, there will be a Sally.....widowed, married, passed away?

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I took it as Kevin was showing her that even though you're having a shitty day, you can be nice to people.

It reminded me of Tom Hanks, he always tries but if he has a slightly off day, people say something. You know he must have bad days, rushed days, but always tries to be nice to fans. I just saw him for a second with Kevin.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Randall and Beth insisting they had to meet Malik before Deja could go to the movies with him was giving me My So-Called Life vibes. I know kids HATE when parents want to meet a boy before you can go out with them, but as an adult I can see that it's not a completely unreasonable request.

Deja's clear discomfort while Randall was talking to Malik was hilariously realistic.

I loved Rebecca having lunch with Beth's mother. There are so many things that people don't tell you when your spouse dies so you're left to figure it out for yourself (like if you're supposed to take your ring off).

I don't know why Kate and Toby felt uncomfortable about Jack crying at music class. Babies (blind and otherwise) cry for no reason all the time. If there's anyone who understands, it's teachers and other parents because they deal with it too.

I think Kate is already coddling Jack too much. Yes, he's blind but he's also a baby. He doesn't comprehend all the words you are saying at this point so narrating everything isn't going to make him comfortable with things like music class because he doesn't understand what you're saying yet. I mean, yes, it's a good habit for her to start now (narrating for him) but she can't expect that to keep him from being startled when there are loud noises.

I don't know have any experience with blind babies, but I do have experience with babies in general and one thing I have learned is that keeping everything quiet all the time is usually not a good idea. They have to get used to hearing noise or you may end up with a baby who wakes up crying every time there's the slightest noise. I remember after my aunt had her first baby, she made sure to always make noise while they were sleeping, rather than tiptoeing around the house and whispering. She would wait until the baby fell asleep and then deliberately make noise by doing things like vacuuming. By the time the baby was eight months old, my aunt flew out to visit us and that baby slept through an entire meal at the Hard Rock Cafe with music blaring.

Although Kate and Toby's fight in the car afterward was realistic, it was also annoying. I guess congratulations to the writers for making their fight believable? Heh and I've been on both sides of the end of that conversation. As the driver, I hate when someone doesn't tell me where they want to go. But on the other hand, this is driving for the sake of driving so you don't actually have to go anywhere. You can drive to your house and then drive around the block over and over until the baby falls asleep.

The thing with fighting is that you have to remember that you love the other person and to try to control yourself. It's easy to let loose on someone when you think that they will always love you and forgive you no matter what, but you can't take back things that you say. You can apologize afterward, but you can't unsay those things and you can't unhurt someone's feelings. Kate was being petty because she was frustrated. I get that she is dealing with a lot, but she really needs to slow her roll and not take it out on Toby. They could really use a therapist to help them through this. Having a baby can be overwhelming even under the most ideal circumstances but they are in completely uncharted waters since neither of them have any experience with blindness. That's why they need to talk to someone who can help them maintain a healthy relationship with each other.

While I understand that to Cassidy, The Manny getting canceled years after Kevin left is not the same level as her marriage ending, this isn't a contest to see whose life sucks more. If Kevin is feeling sad or upset because of something, no matter how petty or trivial someone else  thinks it is, he is still feeling sad or upset. Your judgment doesn't make him any less sad or upset. He was feeling crappy enough to seek out a meeting, so that's enough of a reason to at least not pile on and make him feel worse.

In Kevin's defense, that show launched his career. Sure, maybe if he hadn't been on The Manny, he would have ended up on another equally successful show but the reality is he owes his success to The Manny. No one knew who he was before that. Thanks to that show, he is now a celebrity who is financially comfortable with the opportunity to do movies with Ron Howard and M. Night Shyamalan. It's okay for him to feel sad, nostalgic, or wistful about the show being canceled, even if he's not on it anymore.

Several years after I graduated from college, I found out that the elementary school I attended had shut down. I moved to a different state just before I started middle school so I hadn't visited my elementary school or even thought about it for years, but I was still a little sad when I learned that it no longer existed. I know it's not exactly the same as The Manny being canceled, but I get how finding out that something that was once important to you is now gone can be unsettling or just put you in a weird mood for a few hours.

I also want to point out that although Kevin was upset about the news, he was unfailingly cheerful and kind to everyone who recognized him. Not all celebrities are that nice when they're approached by strangers in public.

What a contrast with his teen self though. Calling your mom to thank her for sending brownies and to tell her you might have an audition for a Sunny D commercial and then casually mentioning that you got married and followng that up with "Can you send me some money?" That's the teen Kevin I remember and don't like. If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to stop asking your parents for money.

7 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Hollywood Douchebag money.  I have to give credit to Kevin.  I know Nicky doesn't want a new trailer, but at least Kevin is self-aware enough that he knows he makes a crap ton of cash, and he knows that he has the means to help his family members.  They have the right to refuse it, but Kevin could be a real douchebag and not even offer.  Let's be real.  Money makes life easier, so good for Kevin for being willing to share his wealth, weather his family chooses to take him up on it or not.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are stories about celebrities who have strained relationships with family members who expect to be taken care of financially just because the celeb has money. I mean, I'm all for helping people out but just because someone in your family has money doesn't mean they're a human ATM machine who is now responsible for your financial well being. But I agree - it's nice that Kevin is trying to help Nicky because he can.

6 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

On another note, Randall was right to call his mother-in-law regal. Phylicia Rashad has always been beautiful, but tonight in her flashback scenes at the college with Rebecca and teen Randall and Beth... my goodness. This woman just gets better with age. The woman is 71! How many 71-year-olds do you know who could play the mother of a teenager?! Just drop dead gorgeous.

She is absolutely regal and has such a commanding presence. She looks like she hasn't aged at all in the past 30+years!

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I took it as Kevin was showing her that even though you're having a shitty day, you can be nice to people.

Or at the very least that you can have a shitty day but choose not to be a total jerk (which is a few steps below actually being nice).

[JudyObscure]

Great episode, I'm really loving Kevin this year.  Randall once again proving what a great husband he is.

Toby being a great father but still picked at by Kate.  I feel for Kate, any new baby can be stressful and her situation is heartbreaking but pushing Toby away will only make things much worse.  I think Kate feels a tremendous load of guilt over little Jack's blindness, knowing that her weight caused the premature birth and the need for the  long incubation period.  Until she works through that, Toby might be dealing with a lot.  I hope he keeps going to the gym even if it's just to get away for awhile.

I didn't like Randal and Beth's attitude about, "A boy who gets girls pregnant," as though the way to keep Deja from getting pregnant is to choose certain boys.  Teach Deja to protect herself and not depend on boys with their less effective, last minute methods.

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

She is doing nothing more than playing the same role/acting the same way as she had on "The Cosby Show",  Clair Huxtable.  Nothing to write home about.

Thank you.  That perpetual self-satisfied smirk was why I couldn't watch the Cosby show even before the scandal. I also didn't like the character she was playing, letting Rebecca talk on about her loss for awhile and then flatly stating that she had lost her husband months before, like some sort of one-upmanship move  Then while poor Rebecca falls all over herself apologizing, she doesn't say something like, "That's okay, you couldn't have known."  She just sits there with that superior condescending smile.

Poor Randall, his girls don't seem to respect him and he has Clair Huxtable for a mother-in-law.

Edited October 16, 2019 by JudyObscure

[MissLucas]

Yeah, also not a fan of Beth's mom (or Claire Huxtable for that matter).

I know Malik is still a kid but dude, did you really expect that Deja would have already filled in her parents about you having a baby? I appreciate that he does not want to hide the fact that he's a father but between lying by omission and casually dropping that bombshell there's a good middle-ground he needs to find fast. Poor Deja though - that meeting was a cringefeast extraordinaire. Lyric Ross really sold that scene with her reactions.

Good episode for Kevin - his looks are opening a lot of doors for him but he's also putting in the work with his people skills instead of being a jerk and hoping to get away with it due to his looks. I like the easy-going buddy chemistry he has with Cassidy but I doubt the show has the nerve to keep them platonic. Also: imagine her husband realizing that the Manny has decided to partner up with his wife in an effort to win him back, LOL! 

Kate and Tobby: folks, you definitely need to see a therapist. Quite frankly the lady consulting on how to take care of Jack should have had that on her list as well. As has been pointed out above the divorce rate for parents with a disabled child is higher than average so this should have been addressed in her session. 

Loved the styling for teenage Kate: Plaid shirt worn a over dress and a choker necklace - how much more 90's can you get?

Edited October 16, 2019 by MissLucas

[ShadowFacts]

53 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In Kevin's defense, that show launched his career. Sure, maybe if he hadn't been on The Manny, he would have ended up on another equally successful show but the reality is he owes his success to The Manny. No one knew who he was before that. Thanks to that show, he is now a celebrity who is financially comfortable with the opportunity to do movies with Ron Howard and M. Night Shyamalan. It's okay for him to feel sad, nostalgic, or wistful about the show being canceled, even if he's not on it anymore.

It's perfectly okay for him to feel any way at all about it.  It's also okay for Cass to be irked by it.  I thought it was a little unbelievable that she would agree to spend five hours with him and Nicky, but they apparently had to go for that contrivance so we could see how Kevin schmoozes people and how she melted a little.  I do like that she opened up and recounted how her husband pursued her, and how she declared she wanted her marriage back, at Kevin's insistence that she say if she did or did not (I think, I was a little distracted at the end).  I hope they keep it at this level, having the three of them be helpful to each other and not go the romance route.  Kevin does not need another one so soon after Zoe and renewed sobriety, and Cass does not need what would probably be a brief interlude to complicate her life further.  I also like that they've opened up a window on how Kevin really did not like acting very much. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Loved that Kate was watching Buffy!

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't know have any experience with blind babies, but I do have experience with babies in general and one thing I have learned is that keeping everything quiet all the time is usually not a good idea. They have to get used to hearing noise or you may end up with a baby who wakes up crying every time there's the slightest noise. I remember after my aunt had her first baby, she made sure to always make noise while they were sleeping, rather than tiptoeing around the house and whispering. She would wait until the baby fell asleep and then deliberately make noise by doing things like vacuuming. By the time the baby was eight months old, my aunt flew out to visit us and that baby slept through an entire meal at the Hard Rock Cafe with music blaring.

I guess they're still in the learning stages of caring for a baby, which is fine. They'll make mistakes, they'll get frustrated, and I found it realistic that they have no idea what the right thing to do is. I don't even think Kate's been around a lot of babies. I'm not even sure how much she was around Annie and Tess when they were babies, but she doesn't have that natural instinct like Kevin does (and even Kevin took a couple of tries to figure it out). 

I can see why Toby and Kate were worried about overstimulating baby Jack, and why they were totally overwhelmed by the music class. Babies cry, but I can imagine that it's a bit more stressful when your baby is crying loudly in public and won't stop. 

I think Toby/Kate will be fine eventually. I like watching them struggle a bit with how to care for Jack. Hopefully they stop taking it out on each other soon, because watching couples fight on TV isn't THAT interesting most of the time. 

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I understand that to Cassidy, The Manny getting canceled years after Kevin left is not the same level as her marriage ending, this isn't a contest to see whose life sucks more. If Kevin is feeling sad or upset because of something, no matter how petty or trivial someone else  thinks it is, he is still feeling sad or upset. Your judgment doesn't make him any less sad or upset. He was feeling crappy enough to seek out a meeting, so that's enough of a reason to at least not pile on and make him feel worse.

Agreed. That's why I appreciated that Cassidy got to see Kevin turn "on" for the fan. I think that gave her perspective that she didn't have, and she acknowledged that she was being a bitch. It did soften her to Kevin in that scene.

5 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I took it as Kevin was showing her that even though you're having a shitty day, you can be nice to people.

Definitely. I think it's a little of both; Kevin just instinctively snapped into "Hollywood Douchebag" mode (ok not exactly douchebag but I had to use Kevin's self-coined term) and was able to go from normal Kevin to Celebrity Kevin in a blink. I don't think he was intentionally trying to teach Cassidy a lesson in that moment but Kevin has always been very courteous toward his fans and has that talent of being able to be switch modes without even thinking about it. 

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought it was a little unbelievable that she would agree to spend five hours with him and Nicky, but they apparently had to go for that contrivance so we could see how Kevin schmoozes people and how she melted a little.

I think it makes sense since Cassidy knew if she went off alone, she might start drinking, so I can see why she reluctantly decided to go along with Kevin/Nicky. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

  I also like that they've opened up a window on how Kevin really did not like acting very much. 

I feel like they're going there, too and I'm giving them the side eye over it.  Didn't we all see several examples of little Kevin loving the limelight and putting on homemade shows for anyone who would watch?  We've been led to believe he was born to act.

[PRgal]

I wonder if The Manny was already unofficially cancelled when Kevin got the text (or email).  After all, they would have already announced the season's shows.  Or maybe The Manny was due to come back in the winter.  Writers should know these things.  After all, they...work for TV??  Also, maybe I missed something, but is Beth's mom moving in with the Pearsons?

Anyone had the vibe that 90s Beth's mom didn't like Randall because Rebecca is not black?

[ShadowFacts]

26 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I feel like they're going there, too and I'm giving them the side eye over it.  Didn't we all see several examples of little Kevin loving the limelight and putting on homemade shows for anyone who would watch?  We've been led to believe he was born to act.

True, he wanted to be the star of the family and resented Randall that he was not.  But I can buy him being conflicted.  He's at a crossroads, almost 40, and he talked about not knowing where he should be in his life at the AA meeting.  He's casting about for what to do.  He turned down a movie role to go to Pennsylvania to Nicky.  He was shown as being not happy on the set of The Manny.  Who would be, it was not so much acting as being a buffoon.  But he got some acclaim for real acting off Broadway, and I guess in the Ron Howard movie.  He needs to figure these things out about himself so he can have a better handle on how to stay in recovery mode.  If he was happy acting, he would be pursuing those opportunities, and he still might.  Or he might actually find it taxing switching on and off between his private self and the fan-pleasing star.  He makes it look easy, but it probably takes a toll. 

[WendyM]

I figured that Beth (Bethany) went for Randall because her mother disapproved of him. And I even thought her mom knew that Beth would do that, but secretly approved so it all worked out. But I was wrong about the latter (when Carole told Randall she didn't like him at first). I still think Beth would do the opposite of what her mother wanted, no matter what. (And with that mother? I would too. I look at her and think, Clair Huxtable! How could you not know what your TVhusband was up to?)

Teen Kate is so beautiful. Those eyes! And yes, she was watching Buffy! Loved it.

I can't imagine Cassidy won't get back together with her husband because would they really waste Nick Wechsler on that one appearance?

I'm dying to see whom they cast for Nicky's Sally.

I also don't buy Kevin not wanting to be an actor. He's always been an actor. He'd also be a terrific life coach.

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I didn't like Randal and Beth's attitude about, "A boy who gets girls pregnant," as though the way to keep Deja from getting pregnant is to choose certain boys.  Teach Deja to protect herself and not depend on boys with their less effective, last minute methods.

I think I would be extremely wary of that relationship.  Deeja is 14.  An intimate relationship with a 16 year old who has a child is just too much for her under any circumstance.     

[Aloeonatable]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

10 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

On another note, Randall was right to call his mother-in-law regal. Phylicia Rashad has always been beautiful, but tonight in her flashback scenes at the college with Rebecca and teen Randall and Beth... my goodness. This woman just gets better with age. The woman is 71! How many 71-year-olds do you know who could play the mother of a teenager?! Just drop dead gorgeous.

She is absolutely regal and has such a commanding presence. She looks like she hasn't aged at all in the past 30+years!

Not to disparage Phylicia, (I've seen her in person recently), but makeup and CGI can make anyone look years younger. That is how they make 42 year old Milo look 28. 

[Blakeston]

Randall, do not apologize to Beth's mother about your "tone" until she apologizes for twenty years of her insufferable tone toward you.

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

That last bit with Kevin and the baby on The Manny was gold, as well as Kate and Rebecca dancing together. 

Loved Rebecca connecting with Beth's mom about losing their husbands.

Wow, so Teen Kevin just eloped with Sophie and just called them about it after? Sheesh.

I don't blame Beth and Randall for freaking out when they found out about Malik's baby. They still ought to give him a chance because forbidding Deja from seeing him won't turn out well.

Again, I really reeeeeally don't want Kevin and Cassidy together. What is it about Jennifer Morrison that she always plays characters that are hard to like. Anyway, I hope she works things out with her husband.

My father would not even let me date or see boys at all in High School. The sassy eye rolls annoy the hell out of me. Deja is only in middle school and does not need to be seeing a someone who is a father. However, Randall disrupted his family to make things better in that area and being judgmental of a teenage father who is trying his best is quite hypocritical.

Jennifer Morrison is like the lady who plays Skyler White (who did not deserve the hate that came her way). They are both solid actresses but do not really connect with the audience very well and come off unlikable. I remember the stupidity in House when he could not understand why someone as beautiful as her would not just want to marry a doctor instead of become one (this was not Jennifer Morrison's fault). Even as a kid I wondered why the hell the House writers seemed to be stuck in the 1950's and they excused it with the main character is just a lovable misogynistic racist, so of course he only values women for their looks.

14 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Either I'm getting soft or this was a pretty good episode. It was a nicely paced mix of all the characters and no one was off-the-charts annoying.

That being said, anything concerning Nicky can easily be cut and the show will not suffer.

Since they made a point of saying Cassidy wants her husband back, hopefully they won't pair Kevin and Army McFrownsALot.

Teen Kate and her mother getting along? What??

Adult Kate and Toby's fight in the car really made me think "yeah, these two are going to get divorced eventually". Sure, she apologized but the passive-aggressive remark about the gym, the personal attacks, the condescending disregard of Toby's parenting abilities, the misdirected obsession with Bunny... get thee to a marriage councilor, Kate.

13 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Cassidy needs some makeup . She has that permanent frown that’s glued to her face and she’s not too appealing . I also hate when new characters on shows are so nasty to the main character /future love interest but then the predictability sets in and they warm up to them . It’s just so cliche . 
 

so now every time Kate’s baby cries , it’s because he’s blind and not because he’s a newborn baby who’s main job it is to cry ? I understand how hard it must be for her , but she needs to take into account that babies cry and it’s not always related to him being blind 

12 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

And we know this show has no issue sticking Kevin with unpleasant partners. Remember the dreadful Olivia from season one? I spent so long worrying she would come back. Shudder.

Teen Kevin calling to say "...oh and by the way, I eloped, can I have some money?" was hilarious.

I KNEW Kate would go there with Toby about him going to the gym. I KNEW it. He knew damn well why he had to hide it from her. I'm glad she apologized, but this is definitely not the last time she'll lash out at him over it. Toby going to the gym is yet another thing that is 'happening to her'. He is losing weight AT her, apparently. I just wish she would relax just a little. Last week she looked so pretty in that dress she wore to the lunch with Toby's clients, and she looked especially stunning in the 'Manny' flashbacks with Kevin. She's beautiful, but is too angry at the world to see it. Right now she and Cassidy are fighting hard for the title of most unpleasant character. I know Kate is under a lot of new mom stress, but I can't help but think this would have been her reaction to Toby no matter when he started losing weight. There would never have been a time when she wouldn't take it personally.

On another note, Randall was right to call his mother-in-law regal. Phylicia Rashad has always been beautiful, but tonight in her flashback scenes at the college with Rebecca and teen Randall and Beth... my goodness. This woman just gets better with age. The woman is 71! How many 71-year-olds do you know who could play the mother of a teenager?! Just drop dead gorgeous.

Kevin is just so gorgeous but I really don't believe the chemistry he has with any of the women they pair him with. It is like Justin H is so good looking, that they think him going with quirky ladies makes it him more interesting. Unfortunately, the writers think quirky is bitchy and unpleasant. I remember Beth's cousin coming off so annoying with Kevin but awesome in the one episode where she was paired with Beth and they visited Beth's mother.

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Randall and Beth insisting they had to meet Malik before Deja could go to the movies with him was giving me My So-Called Life vibes. I know kids HATE when parents want to meet a boy before you can go out with them, but as an adult I can see that it's not a completely unreasonable request.

Deja's clear discomfort while Randall was talking to Malik was hilariously realistic.

I loved Rebecca having lunch with Beth's mother. There are so many things that people don't tell you when your spouse dies so you're left to figure it out for yourself (like if you're supposed to take your ring off).

I don't know why Kate and Toby felt uncomfortable about Jack crying at music class. Babies (blind and otherwise) cry for no reason all the time. If there's anyone who understands, it's teachers and other parents because they deal with it too.

I think Kate is already coddling Jack too much. Yes, he's blind but he's also a baby. He doesn't comprehend all the words you are saying at this point so narrating everything isn't going to make him comfortable with things like music class because he doesn't understand what you're saying yet. I mean, yes, it's a good habit for her to start now (narrating for him) but she can't expect that to keep him from being startled when there are loud noises.

I don't know have any experience with blind babies, but I do have experience with babies in general and one thing I have learned is that keeping everything quiet all the time is usually not a good idea. They have to get used to hearing noise or you may end up with a baby who wakes up crying every time there's the slightest noise. I remember after my aunt had her first baby, she made sure to always make noise while they were sleeping, rather than tiptoeing around the house and whispering. She would wait until the baby fell asleep and then deliberately make noise by doing things like vacuuming. By the time the baby was eight months old, my aunt flew out to visit us and that baby slept through an entire meal at the Hard Rock Cafe with music blaring.

Although Kate and Toby's fight in the car afterward was realistic, it was also annoying. I guess congratulations to the writers for making their fight believable? Heh and I've been on both sides of the end of that conversation. As the driver, I hate when someone doesn't tell me where they want to go. But on the other hand, this is driving for the sake of driving so you don't actually have to go anywhere. You can drive to your house and then drive around the block over and over until the baby falls asleep.

The thing with fighting is that you have to remember that you love the other person and to try to control yourself. It's easy to let loose on someone when you think that they will always love you and forgive you no matter what, but you can't take back things that you say. You can apologize afterward, but you can't unsay those things and you can't unhurt someone's feelings. Kate was being petty because she was frustrated. I get that she is dealing with a lot, but she really needs to slow her roll and not take it out on Toby. They could really use a therapist to help them through this. Having a baby can be overwhelming even under the most ideal circumstances but they are in completely uncharted waters since neither of them have any experience with blindness. That's why they need to talk to someone who can help them maintain a healthy relationship with each other.

While I understand that to Cassidy, The Manny getting canceled years after Kevin left is not the same level as her marriage ending, this isn't a contest to see whose life sucks more. If Kevin is feeling sad or upset because of something, no matter how petty or trivial someone else  thinks it is, he is still feeling sad or upset. Your judgment doesn't make him any less sad or upset. He was feeling crappy enough to seek out a meeting, so that's enough of a reason to at least not pile on and make him feel worse.

In Kevin's defense, that show launched his career. Sure, maybe if he hadn't been on The Manny, he would have ended up on another equally successful show but the reality is he owes his success to The Manny. No one knew who he was before that. Thanks to that show, he is now a celebrity who is financially comfortable with the opportunity to do movies with Ron Howard and M. Night Shyamalan. It's okay for him to feel sad, nostalgic, or wistful about the show being canceled, even if he's not on it anymore.

Several years after I graduated from college, I found out that the elementary school I attended had shut down. I moved to a different state just before I started middle school so I hadn't visited my elementary school or even thought about it for years, but I was still a little sad when I learned that it no longer existed. I know it's not exactly the same as The Manny being canceled, but I get how finding out that something that was once important to you is now gone can be unsettling or just put you in a weird mood for a few hours.

I also want to point out that although Kevin was upset about the news, he was unfailingly cheerful and kind to everyone who recognized him. Not all celebrities are that nice when they're approached by strangers in public.

What a contrast with his teen self though. Calling your mom to thank her for sending brownies and to tell her you might have an audition for a Sunny D commercial and then casually mentioning that you got married and followng that up with "Can you send me some money?" That's the teen Kevin I remember and don't like. If you're old enough to get married, you're old enough to stop asking your parents for money.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are stories about celebrities who have strained relationships with family members who expect to be taken care of financially just because the celeb has money. I mean, I'm all for helping people out but just because someone in your family has money doesn't mean they're a human ATM machine who is now responsible for your financial well being. But I agree - it's nice that Kevin is trying to help Nicky because he can.

She is absolutely regal and has such a commanding presence. She looks like she hasn't aged at all in the past 30+years!

Or at the very least that you can have a shitty day but choose not to be a total jerk (which is a few steps below actually being nice).

It sometimes bugs me that Jack has implanted in Kevin that he needs to take care of everyone so deeply that he takes this stranger's abuse over and over again. Yes, her life is hard and I don't expect her to smile through it. However, she has been just nasty to a man who had been nothing but kind.

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Beth's mom (Carole) is confusing strength with arrogance.  Carole comes off as incredibly arrogant and unlikable.  I wonder how she feels about her daughter being married to Randall?  Randall, a dude that suffers from anxiety attacks, something that he has no control over.  Something that I wouldn't wish on anyone, it is very difficult to deal with.   I wonder if Carole views Randall as being "defective" and "weak-minded" unworthy of her daughter?  I would imagine that Carole would feel that if Randall were mentally strong, he wouldn't have anxiety issues.

I also wonder how much longer Toby is going to put up with Kate's crap?  She keeps taking verbal shots at him and he keeps putting up with it.   Sure she apologizes after the fact, but at some point apologies don't matter anymore. At what point does Toby lose his patience and verbally go off on Kate?

Kate was obsessed with daddy Jack and now baby Jack is her new purpose in life. I feel for her sorrows but she knew what high risk she was taking when she became pregnant. I am glad we saw the flash forward of adult baby Jack being so successful and independent. Otherwise, I would be afraid that Kate would raise a son totally dependent upon her so he would never leave his mother, kind like the mom on Everybody Loves Raymond.

I'm sorry, but Beth thought Randall was creepy as hell until her mother said she did not like him. His obsession with a girl that has openly told him that she is not interested is not romantic and should not be presented as such.

Rashad has of lost me as fan after some comments she made. She always plays the same type of character and Randall had nothing to apologize for.

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

True, he wanted to be the star of the family and resented Randall that he was not.  But I can buy him being conflicted.  He's at a crossroads, almost 40, and he talked about not knowing where he should be in his life at the AA meeting.  He's casting about for what to do.  He turned down a movie role to go to Pennsylvania to Nicky.  He was shown as being not happy on the set of The Manny.  Who would be, it was not so much acting as being a buffoon.  But he got some acclaim for real acting off Broadway, and I guess in the Ron Howard movie.  He needs to figure these things out about himself so he can have a better handle on how to stay in recovery mode.  If he was happy acting, he would be pursuing those opportunities, and he still might.  Or he might actually find it taxing switching on and off between his private self and the fan-pleasing star.  He makes it look easy, but it probably takes a toll. 

They will probably make Kevin quit acting to run some sort of shelter for Veterans. He has to reach his dad's pedestal somehow.

[MadyGirl1987]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't know have any experience with blind babies, but I do have experience with babies in general and one thing I have learned is that keeping everything quiet all the time is usually not a good idea. They have to get used to hearing noise or you may end up with a baby who wakes up crying every time there's the slightest noise. I remember after my aunt had her first baby, she made sure to always make noise while they were sleeping, rather than tiptoeing around the house and whispering. She would wait until the baby fell asleep and then deliberately make noise by doing things like vacuuming. By the time the baby was eight months old, my aunt flew out to visit us and that baby slept through an entire meal at the Hard Rock Cafe with music blaring.

My grandma once told me she would put my mom and aunts to sleep with the TV on for that very reason. My mom kept it up with me and my sister and I am still able to sleep through anything.

Kate was so rude to Toby in that argument. Agree with the person above who say she seem to feel he's losing weight "at" her.

Man, Malik has no chill. At first I thought he was trying to pull something, inserting his daughter into the conversation like it's nothing, almost like Randall wouldn't notice, but then he came across as dumb when he said he thought they knew. Unless Deja lied and said they knew, why would he think she would bring that up to her parents so soon? And why would you bring it up within minutes of meeting them? I know he's young but he has to know most parents would be wary of their teen daughter dating an older boy who's a teen father.

Laughed at teen Kevin just casually slipping in he married Sophie over a phone message. It's definitely in character with Kevin at that age.

Loved Becca and teen Kate getting along was so nice. Also enjoyed Becca and Beth's mom connecting.

[JenE4]

I feel like with this show you never really know what you’re going to get—maybe a present-day/flashback with one character, maybe an all-Jack flashback, maybe a two-character ghosts of Christmas past, present, and future—or maybe even an entire show with people we don’t even know. But I thought this setup right here was most effective with the Big Three (and with related secondary characters) having over-arching storylines that show how their pasts impacted who they are today, with related storylines. I don’t know how we “vote” for this, but writers, as you’re shuffling up timelines and storylines, consider sticking with this methodology more often. I liked how it gave character development and also equal-billing to the main 3. Storylines that spend an hour focusing on one person make me just sick of that person by the end of the show, but I actually liked everyone this episode! (Also, special shout-out to college-aged Randall and Beth who did something with their mouth/voice and hands, respectively, that was just the pure embodiment of their adult counterparts.)

[t7686]

14 hours ago, debraran said:

Phylicia nails Beth's mom and she did a great performance in my eyes.

I have a soft spot for Beth mom, she reminds me so much of my own. This show, at least in my experience as a first generation Jamaican American, is spot on in portraying a Jamaican mom. Even the way Beth responded to her mother's upbringing (becoming somewhat reserved yet close to her family) is accurate. I loved her and Rebecca bonding but agree it did seem like Carole was judging Rebecca for being a mess. Kind of messed up but again I can see where she's coming from. Both my mom and my grandmother are big on a "stiff upper lip" and would probably respond the same way. 

I also like how Kevin is developing. He's becoming my favorite of the adult siblings (sorry Randall) though I hope they don't make him give up on acting. One of them has to stick to a career/he's good at it.

[roughing it]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

My kids weren't blind but would cry with that lady yelling and jumping around.

Hell I would cry with that lady yelling and jumping around!

[buckboard]

Jack was saved from a life of crime when he met Rebecca.  They drove across country together and eventually married and had a mostly happy life together.

Nicky fell even further into a life of drinking and depression when his plan on meeting with Sally and driving cross country with her fell through.

How simple choices can completely change lives.

[AriAu]

That was a nice, mostly happy little episode. Middle Kate got a job and met a boy (and stopped eating), middle Randall got kissed (loved him staring at Bethany all lovestruck), Present Day Kevin showed more charm and acting ability than he has in the prior 3+ seasons, Present Day Randall was at his most Randallish, even the way too harsh looking Cass was relatively chill (notice, I said relatively).....which can only mean that real misery is on the way. 

My bet is on Malik AND Deja....he is way too happy and so is she, so real pain must be on the way, either from Randall/Beth or the real world, but you just know it won't be pretty.

And given how nice it was to see her smiling and being relatively happy, I really, really am not going to enjoy Middle Kate's spiral, which must be coming soon

[Ohmo]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, there are stories about celebrities who have strained relationships with family members who expect to be taken care of financially just because the celeb has money. I mean, I'm all for helping people out but just because someone in your family has money doesn't mean they're a human ATM machine who is now responsible for your financial well being. But I agree - it's nice that Kevin is trying to help Nicky because he can.

I wasn't saying that Kevin should be expected to help, believe me.  I've seen how that can go wrong in a family.  I was referring to Kevin's genuineness about having money.  He knows he has it, and everyone else knows he has it.  (This is your Uncle Kevin.  He smells expensive.)  I like Kevin's lack of pretense about it.  His view seems to be "I've got all of this cash.  Why wouldn't I use it to help Nicky or Kate or Jack, etc.?

Posters were mentioning that Kevin attended several of Jack's appointments.  It wouldn't shock me if some of those were specialists and Kevin was the one footing those bills.  From the flash forward, we also know that Rebecca is being cared for at Kevin's house.  I'm quite certain that is not a cheap endeavor, but it jives with Kevin's view of money----as something that can be used to help make someone's life better, and not because Kevin feels that he's expected to do that.  It's something that he genuinely seems to want to do.  So I say, good for him.

[Kktjones]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. Present day Kevin remains my favorite character. Yes, he can act like a "Hollywood douchebag" sometimes, but overall I like where they are taking his character. I liked the scene with him and Cassidy in the manager's office. It shows that down deep he really is a kind person. Even though he's having a crappy day, he made sure to turn it "on" to please his fan. I generally like Jennifer Morrison, so interested to see where they go with her. I'm guessing she will end up back with her husband as her being a love interest for Kevin is way too obvious.

And I have to add that my favorite thing about the episode was NO Jack! (runs and hides)

[Bulldog]

40 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Hell I would cry with that lady yelling and jumping around!

This x1000.

If that was an example of "the best program in the city," then I shudder to think what the others must be like. 

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Most overrated song, along with Peaches' and Herb's "Reunited" which never felt so good.  

Oh my god. That was the title of last week's Grey's Anatomy episode (though to be honest I'm not entirely sure what it referred to in the episode...) and every time I came back to the tab with forum thread for it that damn song got stuck in my head all over again. (And now it is again, too.)

1 hour ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

My grandma once told me she would put my mom and aunts to sleep with the TV on for that very reason. My mom kept it up with me and my sister and I am still able to sleep through anything.

I don't know if my parents purposely made noise when they put us to sleep (though my brother was a toddler when I was born and we shared a room for the first few years so I'm sure there was some noise going on anyway) but even as a little kid I always played the radio when I went to bed (I think I got my first clock radio when I was about 7). Still do. I was a pretty heavy sleeper when I was younger, though I think I'm not quite as much now, which is rather annoying sometimes.

Edited October 16, 2019 by ams1001

[Jillybean]

17 hours ago, debraran said:

I liked seeing Kate having a job and a boyfriend and I wonder what makes her spiral later, he leaves her? She goes from a somewhat well adjusted teen to sitting outside her old house eating every year and by early 20's is very overweight. Interesting to see how they play that.

I was wondering the same thing. High school grad Kate misses her dad, but seems fairly OK other than not having any real plans for college or work (since she just stumbled into the record store job). She appears to be at a normal, healthy weight. How does she go from this to the fast-food-munching, old-house-stalking, morbidly obese Kate of a few short years later?

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, roughing it said:

Hell I would cry with that lady yelling and jumping around!

Me too. Good grief, how can anyone believe they are going to develop a love or affinity for music in a child with that... whatever that was. It was beyond ridiculous.

[Neurochick]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don't blame Beth and Randall for freaking out when they found out about Malik's baby. They still ought to give him a chance because forbidding Deja from seeing him won't turn out well.

I thought Carol's read was interesting.  She told Randall that when she first met him, she thought he wasn't strong enough for Beth, but he proved her wrong.  Basically she told Randall, you might be wrong about Malik too.

Why should Beth and Randall freak out anyway?  If Malik's girlfriend either had an abortion or put the baby up for adoption, they would not have known because the baby wouldn't have been there.  But he still would have gotten a girl pregnant regardless.

Besides, what if Carol found out Randall's birth parents were drug addicts?  

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

I was wondering the same thing. High school grad Kate misses her dad, but seems fairly OK other than not having any real plans for college or work (since she just stumbled into the record store job). She appears to be at a normal, healthy weight. How does she go from this to the fast-food-munching, old-house-stalking, morbidly obese Kate of a few short years later?

My guess is this 90s record store dreamboat turns out to be somehow abusive and she eats to cope.

[MissLucas]

One thing that strikes me as odd about Malik's story is how little we know about the mother. Her parents wanted to give up the baby for adoption - but what was the girl thinking? And where is she now? I suppose she was from the neighborhood - is she still living there? Going to the same school as Malik? And what are the chances she will sooner or later re-enter the picture?