S15.E07: Week 7: Latvia

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, MissPriss said:

so guys--when Hannah was telling her story about her lovelife how twice she was ready to get engaged do you think Colton <gag> was one of the men she was talking about?

And wierd--I actually thought Jed was really cute and then blech he looked like a little weasel last nite.  And Garret is a whiny gossipy little twit. Tyler...so cute lol. loved his little white pants 🙂

[Wandering Snark]

Hannah would be a nightmare to be in a relationship with because every argument would go on for weeks! She plays the 'I've just been processing' card and drags things back to the topic they already went over but now that she's been 'processing' she realizes she wants to make her point/disprove something said during their last conversation.

She is continually ruminating on things instead of discussing them and letting them go/talking them out as she seems to be. "Oh I've been processing what you said yesterday and I'm thinking today that I didn't like it when you said _____ " and you're back in yesterdays argument/discussion again! That would drive me nucking futz.

[Pass the Tequila]

I just can't with this Luke storyline anymore. So screensaver anyone? You're welcome. 😍

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Abuse is okay as long as the victim is strong enough for it to not have an effect on them?  I disagree.  It's like saying shooting someone is okay if they're wearing a bulletproof vest.  

I didn't say that at all.  I was talking about whether or not what Luke does should be defined as gaslighting.  Shooting someone is never okay, neither is knifing someone, but if someone shot Hannah and everyone said, "Look he knifed her."  I would question their definition of knifing.  

Here's the definition of gaslighting:

manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

Manipulating someone requires intention, you don't accidentally do it, psychological manipulation requires even more calculating and a good  knowledge of psychology, that I don't see coming from Luke. Besides, I see no reason why Luke would want Hannah to question her own sanity.   Gaslighting was traditionally used by people who wanted to commit their family members to asylums.

I think Luke would like to have Hannah for his girlfriend and I think he would like her to pretend she already is and do, or not do, certain things.  If they've been making out for hours that may be part of why he keeps thinking she is his girlfriend. The reason Kaitlyn was so upset after she slept with Nick is she had already privately told Shawn he was the one when she had slept with him.  Even in this strange Bachelor situation people can give each other reasons to expect a certain amount of fidelity.

I don't think Luke's a great guy, I think he  blurts out whatever he's thinking and then back pedals and lies when he gets in trouble for what he said.  I think he's immature and rather stupid, but I don't think he's abusive.

Frankly, I think "gaslighting" is the popular new word and people are using it without really knowing what it means.  It's a terrible thing, particularly when used against someone who is already mentally ill and more susceptible to doubting themselves and their own perception of reality. The accusation is serious enough it should be saved for when it really happens and not when some jerk claims he didn't say something we all know he said just to try and get himself out of trouble.

[Stats Queen]

57 minutes ago, Biosynth said:

Having been on the receiving end of gaslighting and abuse from a former husband, I can say that Luke really exhibits all those qualities.  It's almost like a flashback when I watch this show.  Only Luke is moderately better looking than my ex.

So I’m not the only one who had flashbacks to an abusive, ex-husband.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Stats Queen

[Gregg247]

Let's give Jed a break.  His entire reason for coming onto this show is for the exposure - exposure to the producers of "The Bachelorette", so that next year, if he's lucky, he can be the anonymous musician who seranades the next Bachelor/Bachelorette during an early-season 1-on-1 date.  A ticket to stardom!!!

[tinkerbell]

There are stages of gaslighting, and various degrees:

 7 stages of gaslighting , Psychology Today

Quote

Gaslighting is a form of persistent manipulation and brainwashing that causes the victim to doubt her or himself, and ultimately lose her or his own sense of perception, identity, and self-worth. The term is derived from the 1944 film Gaslight, in which a husband tries to convince his wife that she’s insane by causing her to question herself and her reality.

In its milder forms, gaslighting creates a subtle, but inequitable, power dynamic in a relationship, with the gaslightee subjected to the gaslighter’s unreasonable, rather than fact-based, scrutiny, judgment, or micro-aggression. At its worst, pathological gaslighting constitutes a severe form of mind-control and psychological abuse. Gaslighting can occur in personal relationships, at the workplace, or over an entire society.

I think Luke's behavior fits.  He's not as good at it as he hopes to be, but he's young, he'll get better at it over time.   

The conversation with Garrett was a good example of an attempt to gaslight.  He tried to manipulate Garrett into thinking that he was wrong about who was and who was not "staying in their lane".  When you question me questioning you, then YOU are the one who is wrong.  

With Hannah, he tries to make the case that the nude bungee jump was somehow cheating on her future husband, and he said or implied that he wouldn't be proud to introduce her to his family.   I think someone had a talk with Hannah after that, and helped her with how to process what he had said.  Also his non-apology! Looking sincerely into Hannah's eyes and saying "I'm sorry you misunderstood me."  Yeah, that's gaslighting.  (I'm not the asshole, I'm the victim, you misunderstood and blamed me!)  

[Haute Messe]

14 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

Luke, to me, acts like a guy who is there on a bet.  Someone bet him he couldn't get Hannah to keep him until the end.  It's a competition, and he's there to WIN, not to have Hannah. 

He acts to me like he's auditioning for a part in a community theater production.

[b2H]

13 minutes ago, lizajane said:

He acts to me like he's auditioning for a part in a community theater production.

He will probably show up on BIP and then disappear into the sunset, never to be heard from again.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.  [\s]

[Haute Messe]

2 minutes ago, b2H said:

He will probably show up on BIP and then disappear into the sunset, never to be heard from again.  Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.  [\s]

If he even dares to show up and ruin BIP for me, I hope the veterans chew him up and spit him out.

[Ohwell]

Oh I would love to see Luke on BIP.  

[Tatortot]

Inquiring minds want to know!!!

Jed ended up serenading Hannah in her hotel room bed, and in the next scene all the boys are at the lounge talking.    Did Jed spent the night?   Did they do it?

[ChiMama]

9 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

He looked straight out of some 1950s movie in the scene, between the hair, the dancing, the ridiculous outfit.

Totally reminded me of the Jimmy Fallon "tight pants" skits:

[b2H]

1 hour ago, lizajane said:

If he even dares to show up and ruin BIP for me, I hope the veterans chew him up and spit him out.

I suspect he's playing a character on Bachelorette.  He may actually be a nice guy and find someone on BIP.  I've seen it happen before, though I can't remember with whom....  any takers out there to remind me?

[ChiMama]

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Either we really are in the minority for wanting to hear those kinds of conversations, or TPTB is just blind to what most people really want.

Or politics and religion are hot-button topics that they'd rather avoid on a network television show.

[LuvMyShows]

21 minutes ago, ChiMama said:

Or politics and religion are hot-button topics that they'd rather avoid on a network television show.

I don't necessarily want to hear their detailed debates, but someone saying that going to church is important to them, and discussing some of their church attendance habits/background, would not be a hot-button topic to be avoided.  We already saw Luke go to church, so clearly that is not a concern of TPTB.   Someone saying that they make time each morning to read a Bible verse is also innocuous enough.  And whether we hear the politics or not, they could still have an ITM where the lead says something summary-ish, like "Last night at dinner Luke and I talked about politics, and we're on the same page." Or even give us the summary of the finances/career/kids/geography conversations.  Something so that we know the contestants as more than one-note quasi-caricatures.

[CindyBee]

43 minutes ago, b2H said:

I suspect he's playing a character on Bachelorette.  He may actually be a nice guy and find someone on BIP.  I've seen it happen before, though I can't remember with whom....  any takers out there to remind me?

Chris Randone wasn't the greatest on Becca's season but turned up on BiP, found love and now is married to Krystal.   

Who knows if that would remotely happen for Luke.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 Gaslighting was traditionally used by people who wanted to commit their family members to asylums.

Frankly, I think "gaslighting" is the popular new word and people are using it without really knowing what it means.  It's a terrible thing, particularly when used against someone who is already mentally ill and more susceptible to doubting themselves and their own perception of reality. The accusation is serious enough it should be saved for when it really happens and not when some jerk claims he didn't say something we all know he said just to try and get himself out of trouble.

I assume you're speaking of the movie "Gaslight" from 1944.  The term "gaslighting" wasn't used as a metaphorical expression in the play or the movies.  That was a movie about a man who was literally dimming the gaslights in the house to get his wife to think that she was going insane so that she would be committed and he could steal her inheritance.  The gaslights were used literally, not metaphorically, and it was fictional, not a real life story.

According to Wikipedia, "The term "gaslighting" has been used colloquially since the 1960s[8] to describe efforts to manipulate someone's perception of reality."  That's when it became used in the metaphorical sense.

So it's not "the popular new word" as you say.  I myself learned about the term in 2011, so that's given me 8 years to learn what it means.

I'm very confident that I know what the term means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Edited June 25, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Nowhere]

59 minutes ago, b2H said:

I suspect he's playing a character on Bachelorette.  He may actually be a nice guy and find someone on BIP.  I've seen it happen before, though I can't remember with whom....  any takers out there to remind me?

Nick? Production made everyone hate him as well but then he was a favorite on BIP.

Newsflash. Garrett does the same thing Luke does. He’s just playing innocent while Luke is being straight up about it. This all comes down to Hannah not getting rid of Luke when she saw the red flags to begin with. None of the guys she has left are any good. If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it’s when a group gangs up on one guy which is what they’re all doing to Luke. Okay, Luke sucks. But he has tried to get along with the guys and explain things to them. They all tattle to Hannah and talk about each other. But somehow only Luke is blamed for it. Hypocrisy irritates the shit out of me. And btw, if they were one on one with Luke with no cameras around, there’s no way they’d poke at him like they’re doing. But since they all have each other as backup they get very bold. It wouldn’t happen that way in the real world.

Garrett literally makes me sick and his nose is too small. 

[Dejana]

16 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I don't necessarily want to hear their detailed debates, but someone saying that going to church is important to them, and discussing some of their church attendance habits/background, would not be a hot-button topic to be avoided.  We already saw Luke go to church, so clearly that is not a concern of TPTB.   Someone saying that they make time each morning to read a Bible verse is also innocuous enough.  And whether we hear the politics or not, they could still have an ITM where the lead says something summary-ish, like "Last night at dinner Luke and I talked about politics, and we're on the same page." Or even give us the summary of the finances/career/kids/geography conversations.  Something so that we know the contestants as more than one-note quasi-caricatures.

Many contestants have indicated that they've talked about politics and religion and it was not mentioned all on the show. I think it just depends on whether it's the storyline that the producers want to tell that particular season.  

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/08/205005/bachelor-show-contestants-politics-trump

Edited June 26, 2019 by Dejana

[EllenB]

Luke reminds me of Jake when his smiley mask started slipping and the mean control freak showed.  Remember even on Jillian's season, he was (smilingly) possessive and telling her to dump guys, supposedly in her best interest?  Then on his season, he started eliminating the women who seemed the most independent first.  I felt sorry for that dipshit Vienna; she was dumb and came from a less-sophisticated background, which made her awkward and mouthy around the other women, but it was exactly what Jake honed in on - the vulnerable, not-too-bright outsider who would do exactly what he wanted.  Once the season was over and she showed more Independence than he anticipated, he dropped his civilized  mask and became verbally (and possibly physically) abusive.  Luke has the same possessive outlook, he's not as polished about it.  Yet.

[Riplet68]

I’d like to know more about how/when dates are planned and when the datee is chosen for that particular 1/1. Also,how often they reedit between episodes based on reactions and news coming out. 

After she sent Luke home and producers let him come back and had her keep him at that rose ceremony, I feel like the rest of the guys know Luke is only being kept around for drama.  Girl can keep him for producers, and still get her groove on with him.

Previous poster asked about serious girl really wanting serious relationship; Rachel was that way. She had a damn questionnaire for her final 3!

i dated 2 different guys who did what Luke does, for 2 very different reasons. One because he just didn’t like confrontation and disagreement (not in a “fine, you’re right,” but a “I want us to be on same page” way).  The other was totally doing it to cover his ass.

[waving feather]

So, the signs were there that Luke is a possessive and manipulative guy. So if Hannah kept him until what was shown in the previews, it's all on her. That was not the first time Luke attempt to control or shame her. Playing the part of a "forgiving" man by "forgiving" her bone-headed mistakes. Whaaa...?

She even recognized but she decided to brush it aside after some useless confrontation where he talked in circles again. How could she let it slide? She acts like this tough girl lecturing the guys but she is a pushover after all.

And she told Chris she was falling in love with him? LMAO. She really is a prime example of smart people making dumb decisions. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by waving feather

[JudyObscure]

34 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I assume you're speaking of the movie "Gaslight" from 1944.  The term "gaslighting" wasn't used as a metaphorical expression in the play or the movies.  That was a movie about a man who was literally dimming the gaslights in the house to get his wife to think that she was going insane so that she would be committed and he could steal her inheritance.  The gaslights were used literally, not metaphorically, and it was fictional, not a real life story.

I actually prefer the 1940's version because I think Diana Wynyard  was perfect for the role, but sure, of course I know it was fiction.  What I meant was that the play/movies gave us  the verb "to gaslight," so they are the classic examples.  In them the person doing the gaslighting (both literally and metaphorically) was an older, well respected man and the woman was much younger and  insecure.  I don't think the Ingrid Bergman character would have succeeded in convincing her husband he was going crazy or convincing a doctor that he should be committed. I'm sure a gaslighting can take many forms but I think it would be harder for someone who no one respects (like Luke) to succeed in gaslighting a young woman like Hannah who seems to have plenty of self-esteem.

I guess we'll see.  Maybe next week Luke will tell Hannah she didn't really see Garrett's ding dong she just imagined the whole thing.

[deSchenke]

All I could think of during that bungee jumping date is that it was freezing outside.  Then the two of them sit around a meager fire in their terry robes by the river.  And it was snowing!

I'm still puzzled that Hannah kept her bra on until the final jump out of the cable car, yet had no issues removing her undies beforehand.

Luke is a non-issue.  It's clear he digs his own grave. He twists his words and the truth around like a pretzel at his whim. I fear for any woman who succumbs to this. But we know from the previews that Hannah sends him home.

[Kiss my mutt]

Maybe the guys who are cast off should just come back a la Luke. 

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

So, the signs were there that Luke is a possessive and manipulative guy. So if Hannah kept him until what was shown in the previews, it's all on her. That was not the first time Luke attempt to control or shame her. Playing the part of a "forgiving" man by "forgiving" her bone-headed mistakes. Whaaa...?

She even recognized but she decided to brush it aside after some useless confrontation where he talked in circles again. How could she let it slide? She acts like this tough girl lecturing the guys but she is a pushover after all.

And she told Chris she was falling in love with him? LMAO. She really is a prime example of smart people making dumb decisions. 

Hannah confuses me, which is why I can buy she confuses Luke.  Hannah has repeatedly said she wants a traditionally southern masculine man and her faith is very important to her.  Luke has been upfront as being that kind of man, which is why she appears to like him.  Those type of men typically do NOT like to see "their women" being sexually aggressive with other men.  She's from Alabama she knows this.  Now of course all of them aren't like this.  But most traditionally southern religious men I know, being from the south, certainly have strict views about women and sex.  So it's confusing to me that the reasons she appears to be attracted to Luke are the same reasons she's fighting him over, if that makes sense?  Luke is very straightforward IMO about the type of man he is.  But Hannah, to me, seems confused about who she is and what she wants in a man.  I believe a part of her agrees with Luke's conservative views but there's another part of her trying to fight against them.

[call me ishmael]

Tbh, leaving aside the physical, i think the real point is that Hannah is still at that age when the “drama” seems to her to be a sign of deep emotional connection.  It is all about the frisson around Luke—that’s not a bug for her it’s the feature.  The fact that she could say that either she is falling in love with him or she is losing her mind is a sign of this.

Luke is clearly manipulative.  But it is possible that he is of the George Costanza school of “it’s not a lie if you believe it.”  So maybe since he knows that he is the eight person for her and that God came to him in the shower that nothing he says is a lie because it is simply part of the deeper truth that her marrying him is the divine plan.

[jade.black]

23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

With Hannah and Peter I feel like I'm watching an awkward teenager and his first serious girlfriend go at it. Even with all the bikini straddling, sauna and heat, nothing about that was sexy or hot to me. Just kind of adorably awkward.

This! Exactly! Tyler is naturally hot and their chemistry together is smooth and gets ME hot. Peter is so embarrassingly awkward. His clunky moves like pushing her down on the sauna bench (which he'd clearly been calculating doing in one motion- and failed- regardless of whether the timing was natural) and the arms jerkily groping up and down her body. Nah. Brings me right back to high school dating. He seems nice. But cringe.

I tend to be a bit of an exhibitionist and would have LOVED naked bungee jumping. Anyone who wants to slut shame like Luke, get the fuck out. I've been through years of being labeled a slut for nothing more than wearing revealing clothes and enjoying making out with whoever I please (while single)... I once had a guy in high school point me out to my younger brother (unknowingly) and tell him I was the biggest slut in our school. I was a virgin. I didn't even know the guy. Luke reminds me of every asshole who treated me like I was trash when I was younger. Guys like Luke are the same guys who will monitor what you wear when you leave the house, accuse you of cheating when you go to a party without them, take your phone while you're in the shower and search for texts they think are incriminating, tell you they're leaving you because you "tricked them" into being with you when you say something they don't approve of, storm out of bars breaking things when you try to talk to them about concerns (once the gaslighting stops working)... I've been through all of it. Run, run far away. Run to a guy like Tyler who shrugs it off because he knows you're a confident woman and doesn't blow things out of proportion. There is nothing wrong with going natural (and they definitely had underwear on so it was pretty tame) and nothing wrong if it was sexual and nothing wrong if you just want to show off your banging tits.

His backtracking just took him from "I'd be ashamed to introduce you to my parents" to "oh wait, I didn't let you explain that you weren't turned on doing it so I'll pretend it's acceptable." She sees right through his bullshit and explicitly said that even if it was sexual, he has no right to judge, but his whole "being misunderstood" argument painted him in a bad light regardless of how he tried to rework it. She says she just wants him to be 100% himself all the time, but what she can't seem to grasp is that he IS being 100% himself and she just doesn't like the person he is. Fuck that guy.

Edited June 26, 2019 by jade.black

[saber5055]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Maybe the guys who are cast off should just come back a la Luke. 

Hey, it could happen. Chris Bukowski even came back on a season he wasn't cast to be on.

I think TPTB are keeping Luke around to create conversation. I mean, that's all anyone here is talking about so I guess that plan is working for them. Count me out of the It's All About Luke convo. BORING. Although this episode didn't give us much else to discuss. At least there wasn't a clip show, so thanks for that.

[nlkm9]

3 hours ago, Nowhere said:

Nick? Production made everyone hate him as well but then he was a favorite on BIP.

Newsflash. Garrett does the same thing Luke does. He’s just playing innocent while Luke is being straight up about it. This all comes down to Hannah not getting rid of Luke when she saw the red flags to begin with. None of the guys she has left are any good. If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it’s when a group gangs up on one guy which is what they’re all doing to Luke. Okay, Luke sucks. But he has tried to get along with the guys and explain things to them. They all tattle to Hannah and talk about each other. But somehow only Luke is blamed for it. Hypocrisy irritates the shit out of me. And btw, if they were one on one with Luke with no cameras around, there’s no way they’d poke at him like they’re doing. But since they all have each other as backup they get very bold. It wouldn’t happen that way in the real world.

Garrett literally makes me sick and his nose is too small. 

Garret is a shit stirrer and a whiny little bitch!! These guys need to forget about Luke and if they are interested make a play for Hannah. Ugh!!!

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

Hannah confuses me, which is why I can buy she confuses Luke.  Hannah has repeatedly said she wants a traditionally southern masculine man and her faith is very important to her.  Luke has been upfront as being that kind of man, which is why she appears to like him.  Those type of men typically do NOT like to see "their women" being sexually aggressive with other men.  She's from Alabama she knows this.  Now of course all of them aren't like this.  But most traditionally southern religious men I know, being from the south, certainly have strict views about women and sex.  So it's confusing to me that the reasons she appears to be attracted to Luke are the same reasons she's fighting him over, if that makes sense?  Luke is very straightforward IMO about the type of man he is.  But Hannah, to me, seems confused about who she is and what she wants in a man.  I believe a part of her agrees with Luke's conservative views but there's another part of her trying to fight against them.

Exactly. Which is why she was a terrible choice for The Bachelorette. It was clear on The Bachelor that she has no idea who she is and is very immature. I’m thinking of her refusal to make a toast and laughing like a little girl because she couldn’t think of anything to say. Second hand embarrassment was through the roof. I couldn’t believe they chose her, honestly. 

[Ripley68]

Finally watching show.  Only to Peter's date.  Watching Luke talk to Hannah after the group date, he actually came across as real and at the time not controlling. Yeah he said some things, but it was all stated as HIS feelings, and what he felt.  He even got her to empathize when starting out by asking if she ever had been cheated on.  At this sit down, it come across as over controlling and psycho.

Watching Hannah's smack down.  I think Luke is just an , idiot and really has no clue how he is coming across.  I do see him trying, and when talking about the bungee jump, it was all stated as his feelings and how what they did on the date made him feel.  Yes, there were other things he said (her body shouldn't touch anothers till marriage and stuff like that)  Still don't him though, but I can see him trying.  I don't see anywhere near the connection with him that she has with Jed and Tyler. She leans into them, never leans into Luke.

I think Luke did try with Garret to get him to drop it and not bring it up at the rose ceremony.  Garrett is the one being a bitch here. 

I've only watched since JoJo, but I don't recall EVER seeing producers manipulate the players so much.  I have no doubt that THEY cancelled the cocktail party, not Hannah - or they talked her into it.  THEY brought Luke back after she kicked him to the curb, THEY gave Tyler the flowers (he has no money, duh), THEY set up these dates (and I have no doubt they talked her into Garrett for this one knowing it would poke all Lukes buttons), THEY sent Jed to Hannah's room.  On and On.

Tyler is definitley the stand out so far.  And she is WAY into him.

OOO, I swear I just heard the white bootee whisper something like "don't apologize, I know you had to."

She couldn't even look Luke in the eye after giving him the rose and their hug was perfuctory at best.  I don't get how this all lines up with what we saw in the previews for later in the season (her climbing on him)

Edited June 26, 2019 by Ripley68

[meatball77]

22 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

Exactly. Which is why she was a terrible choice for The Bachelorette. It was clear on The Bachelor that she has no idea who she is and is very immature. I’m thinking of her refusal to make a toast and laughing like a little girl because she couldn’t think of anything to say. Second hand embarrassment was through the roof. I couldn’t believe they chose her, honestly. 

She's so obviously going through a major change in understanding who she is.  She's mentioned that she's only kissed five guys before, I think she's been unconfident and repressed.  So she's really enjoying having some sexual power and being able to feel confident sexually.  That would have been great for her on Bachelor in Paradise, but she's not in any way ready to get married.

[rebel2u]

On 6/24/2019 at 9:56 PM, nutty1 said:

I’m on vacation and in the car. I am enjoying your commentary more than I’d probably be enjoying the show!

So they didn’t edit Jed any worse?

Well, you just better stay in your lane!

[phlebas]

[kita]

All I'm going to say about the whole "Hannah keeping Luke" situation, is that I always think of it from a production perspective. We can't take everything at face value. Luke is the entertainment for us wrong reasons viewers, so if Hannah is being told to keep him, she'll keep him (and that even plays into what she has said about herself, right? that she tries to appease people). I look at the show as a story line, and I think a lot of the early participants do, as well. They play their part, and if they leave early, they go shill on Instagram or whatever. Hannah does the things that production asks her to do, brings up things they want her to bring up, etc. It's all part of the deal.

A few of them, I think, get swept into it and really want to date someone. But there's a reason that a lot of these relationships from Bachelor/Bachelorette shows haven't worked: it's because it is in an artificial setting and everyone is playing for the camera. Then they get into the real world and a lot of them see that they didn't really know the other person much at all.

Anyway, that is just how I look at it. Poor Dylan and Dustin, they really got robbed on the screen time. I hope they didn't want to do much Instagram shilling. 😂

Still waiting for a fence jump this season; don't disappoint me, show. You all seem to like Tyler's bum, so he can do it: EVERYONE WINS.

[nittany cougar]

21 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

so guys--when Hannah was telling her story about her lovelife how twice she was ready to get engaged do you think Colton <gag> was one of the men she was talking about?

And wierd--I actually thought Jed was really cute and then blech he looked like a little weasel last nite.  And Garret is a whiny gossipy little twit. Tyler...so cute lol. loved his little white pants 🙂

I actually thought it could have been a high school boyfriend and a college boyfriend.  In any event, that is a lot for someone as young as Hannah.  

I feel like Hannah is sweet but very immature.  Luke is feeding her inner teenage drama queen and her need to be admired.  She could have walked away from him, but she chose to fight with him because he has to prove himself and feed her ego.

I actually felt for Luke on some level because he was struggling to understand her and was getting frustrated.  I kind of felt sad for him in a way.  Luke's uncanny resemblance to Bryce Harper might be clouding my judgment.

My overall impression is still that Hannah is very limited.  She likes to be admired for her looks because that is what she has always known since childhood in the pageant world.  She likes to make out because it's fun, and she doesn't have a lot to contribute intellectually. Her favorite subjects are what Hannah feels and what Hannah wants. 

My feeling is that five years from now, she will be married to a doctor or lawyer from Alabama or Georgia,  living in a nice house, and she won't be much different than she is now.  (And this isn't a ding on the South, I'm from Texas.)

Edited June 26, 2019 by nittanycougar

[portergirl99]

21 hours ago, lizajane said:

He acts to me like he's auditioning for a part in a community theater production.

Not sure about Luke as a whole, but his eyebrows are DEFINITELY auditioning! 

[Nowhere]

Well if production can tell Hannah to keep Luke then they can also tell Luke to brink up his concerns in certain ways for our entertainment. I don’t believe anything that happens on this show. They either try to make someone look really bad or really good or just dumb.

Edited to say that my phone autocorrected “bring” to “brink” but I’m keeping it.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Nowhere

[leighdear]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:34 PM, Pass the Tequila said:

I just can't with this Luke storyline anymore. So screensaver anyone? You're welcome. 😍

Hmmm....tightie whities under tightie whities.  I like it.  

[Bethanne]

On 6/24/2019 at 8:08 PM, Quickbeam said:

Can Hannah say “Latvia” again? Because I’m not sure she said it enough. I’m just an occasional watcher......

I can't stand how she says "Lawtvia." But I guess the upside is that she's not saying "Roll Tide" anymore. 

On 6/24/2019 at 8:54 PM, TiredMe said:

Luke has a neon warning sign flashing over his head and Hannah is too blinded by his tiny man parts to notice. 

Luke totally has a micropenis (TM New Girl.) 

On 6/24/2019 at 9:42 PM, tennisgurl said:

“You misunderstood...you misunderstood...” Luke is hard core gaslighting her, textbook abuser tactics. This is just getting sad and creepy, I half want them to put a domestic abuse PSA up at the end with a phone number to call. 

I can't fucking stand gaslighting and he is most definitely a textbook case. 

On 6/24/2019 at 9:48 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

TYLER IS SO DAMN HOT

Yes. He is such a Bro, though--he was cracking me up when he had enough with Luke. He is a graduating senior Phi Kappa Alpha so over the idiotic incoming freshmen. 

Am I the only one questioning Hannah's "you aren't in charge of my body" trope? Girl better get the hell out of Alabama with that mindset. 

[Pass the Tequila]

7 hours ago, kita said:

I always think of it from a production perspective. We can't take everything at face value. Luke is the entertainment for us wrong reasons viewers, so if Hannah is being told to keep him, she'll keep him (and that even plays into what she has said about herself, right? that she tries to appease people). I look at the show as a story line, and I think a lot of the early participants do, as well. They play their part, and if they leave early, they go shill on Instagram or whatever. Hannah does the things that production asks her to do, brings up things they want her to bring up, etc. It's all part of the deal.

A few of them, I think, get swept into it and really want to date someone. But there's a reason that a lot of these relationships from Bachelor/Bachelorette shows haven't worked: it's because it is in an artificial setting and everyone is playing for the camera. Then they get into the real world and a lot of them see that they didn't really know the other person much at all.

Anyway, that is just how I look at it. Poor Dylan and Dustin, they really got robbed on the screen time. I hope they didn't want to do much Instagram shilling. 😂

Still waiting for a fence jump this season; don't disappoint me, show. You all seem to like Tyler's bum, so he can do it: EVERYONE WINS. 

This is such a well written post. Thanks for that.. and I wish I had written it myself.☺️

I sometimes forget, while watching and commenting here, whether I'm a right reasons or wrong reasons viewer. Lol

I'm a little torn on who Luke really is so I've been reluctant to comment too much yet. Right reasons says there is something good in him as Hannah said and we probably don't see because it's edited out. He does seem like he's trying. He is young though and he says some dumb things that definitely cross the line. I don't think this means he's automatically destined to become an abuser or gaslighter. I'm sorry I love y'all posters who think he is and agree with practically everything else you guys say, but I disagree that he is truly gaslighting. It requires intent. He's too dumb to have that kind of insidiousness. I think he's just a typical young stud, arrogant and full of himself, recently grabbing on to religion and all the sexism there..but what's really awesome to see is Hannah giving him a good tuning for it!! Delayed or not, she's not giving him any free passes.

I never thought I'd say this in a million years but I sincerely hope (for right and wrong reasons), that he makes it to hometowns. I must see the interaction between his parents (and the relationship he has with his mum), to see what if any influence they may have had with respect to his offensive comments (and possibly perspective). I don't know what factors created his filter. It'll be interesting to see.

Also I didn't realise he was so short. In my experience 5'8" in a man (I'm almost 5'10" myself) can be emasculating...so maybe he's overcompensating? (sheesh sorry for the psycho analysis...I am not a physician!)

I hope this all makes sense! Gah.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Pass the Tequila

[Wandering Snark]

2 hours ago, Bethanne said:

Am I the only one questioning Hannah's "you aren't in charge of my body" trope? Girl better get the hell out of Alabama with that mindset. 

I think this on the list of things that she says about herself that are newly stated 'this is the woman I am' things. The things she wants to be true about herself now that she has the freedom/platform to decide such things on her own, without others influencing her.

[JudyObscure]

12 minutes ago, Pass the Tequila said:

Also I didn't realise he was so short. In my experience 5'8" in a man (I'm almost 5'10" myself) can be emasculating...so maybe he's overcompensating? (sheesh sorry for the psycho analysis...I am not a physician!)

I've been reading the Ringer's recaps and their writer agrees with you that Luke's height might be making him act a little desperate out of ..er...desperation.

There's a good picture inside the recap that shows all the guys standing together and Luke really is way shorter than most of them.

Here.

[leighdear]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:55 PM, JudyObscure said:

Frankly, I think "gaslighting" is the popular new word and people are using it without really knowing what it means.  It's a terrible thing, particularly when used against someone who is already mentally ill and more susceptible to doubting themselves and their own perception of reality. The accusation is serious enough it should be saved for when it really happens and not when some jerk claims he didn't say something we all know he said just to try and get himself out of trouble.

I'm with you.  Younger folks I've heard using it just assume it means somebody is screwing with you.  It's like them saying "I wanna cheers" instead of toast.  Sometimes people hear a term and use it without knowing what it really means, then assign a new meaning.  That's happened with the word "Bully", in my opinion.  But that's waaaaay off topic....

I just don't think Luke is intelligent enough to have crafted such an intricate plan to "win" this "game".  I think he's simple, clueless and getting a crapload of grief that he never bargained for.  He went to 3 different "colleges" but no idea if he graduated from anywhere or does anything.  Any idea if he has a job?  

[rebel2u]

The show says he's an import/export manager, but what he specifically does, or if he's still doing it, who knows?

[ByTor]

29 minutes ago, rebel2u said:

The show says he's an import/export manager

[Stats Queen]

21 minutes ago, ByTor said:

OMG, I was looking for a Seinfeld gif on this - you rock!

[Arkay]

5 hours ago, Bethanne said:

Am I the only one questioning Hannah's "you aren't in charge of my body" trope? Girl better get the hell out of Alabama with that mindset. 

I've seen so many references here to the South, and Alabama in particular, when it comes to Hannah's ways. I'm a native New Yorker who has been to the South many times, but only on vacation.  What in particular about Alabama would make Hannah's independence so unique? I genuinely do not like her, but not because she's a Southern girl. I know here in NYC there are so many, many cultures that there isn't ever just one mindset. We have many sincere Christians and Jewish people so it can't just be a religious thing. Is there still some kind of Southern Belle    Influence? Is it pageant culture? I thought that was more of a stereotype. 

Here in NYC I've known exactly one pageant girl. She was about 10 and friends with my daughter decades ago. They moved to Florida because pageants are not such an influence here. I'm sure there is a contingent of people involved, but it is definitely not the norm.

Please enlighten me!