S08.E06: The Iron Throne

[Bryce Lynch]

So how is Bran, "I am not Brandon Stark anymore, I'm the 3ER" suddenly Brandon (the Broken) Stark again?

He repeatedly told everyone who would listen that he could never be Lord of Winterfell, but he can be King of the Seven...I mean Six Kingdoms?

And if the North is now independent how does the King of the Six Kingdoms have the authority to sentence someone to go to the Wall, in the North?

Edited May 20, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[kieyra]

1 minute ago, SourK said:

Mixed feelings. I'm happy to know how it ended, and I think most of the plot points would have been fine/good with more build-up. I didn't get that "everything's falling into place" feeling I wanted so much as it just felt like a bunch of stuff happened.

Not thrilled with the politics around Dany overall, happy for Sansa, touched that Brienne said Jaime died protecting his queen, confused about Arya, stealth shipping Jon and Tormund now for some reason.

You’re stealth shipping J/T because it was the first time Jon had smiled in about four episodes. 

Source: am now shipping them. 

[QuinnM]

6 minutes ago, mammaM said:

Sit down uncle"  Hahahahahahaha

Let’s give it to Sophie, that girl has elevator eyes and side eyes.  Damn, imagine when she’s a mom.  

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think he’s going free. I think he’s helping the Free Folk get settled. At this point the Nightswatch will likely be a long term penal colony and a diplomatic point of contact with the freefolk. 

Jon was totally saying goodbye to the Wall when he gave it a last look.

Also, those are the Free Folks’ lands, they don’t need the help of a single man - or anyone ‘s help - to settle.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Raachel2008

[Daisy]

8 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I liked it. The goodbye scene with the Stark children made me verklempt. I am sad Dany went the way she did though. 

How many times have people in the North yammered and proclaimed so and so King/Queen of the North? Don’t get too comfy in the big chair Sansa. 

Ser Pod FTW!!!

Anyone else think Brienne was gonna write, “Survived by his son/daughter”? No? Just me? 

i honestly thought that was going to be in there. 

[Francie]

Arya’s end echoes the end of Season 4, where he is at the head of the ship from Westeros to Bravo. That sweeping music is on of my favorite moments. 

Still, a shame she didn’t want Gendry with her. 

[laprin]

Wait, so the guy who has been “Not Bran” for two seasons because he is the Three-Eyed Raven is suddenly cool with being Bran Stark? How do they know that they can trust him?  Seems to me, the Three-Eyed Raven has been plotting the whole time to rule the kingdom. 

I did not buy that Dany was so far gone that death was the only answer, but whatever show. 🙄

That council meeting was a shit-show. Bronn, Master of Coin? Good luck, Six Kingdoms, you’ll need it.  At least, Winterfell looks to be in good hands. 

[UNOSEZ]

10 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Boooooringgg!!  And I thought the ending to LOTR was long and drawn out. 

Brienne writing about Jaime was basically Wikipedia. 

If the North could stay independent why couldn’t the other six kingdoms?  And why would the Northmen not want to bend a knee to Bran Stark?  

Whoever rules the north which I think is like double the size of the rest of the kingdoms combined.. Needs to live in the North.. And preferably a Stark 

[zibnchy]

Why is Brienne on the Small Counc il? Isn't she oathbound to Sansa? She could be Sansa's hand.  Sansa may need her for protection. Also why was she voting for the new king? Is she Lord of something now? (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brienne, but I don't love her on the small council.)

Ser Pod for the WIN!

Sit down, Uncle.

[Helena Dax]

Were they going to give the Reach to the Dothraki and the Unsullied,? Great farmers, all of them! 

[easypeasy]

12 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Ned raised 3 kings and a queen.. And his most talented child is about to be a pirate... Or explorer so.. Great Job Ned

Poor Rickon.

[Keely]

1 minute ago, Bryce Lynch said:

So how is Bran, "I am not Brandon Stark anymore, I'm the 3ER" suddenly Brandon (the Broken) Stark again?

He repeatedly told everyone who would listen that he could never be Lord of Winterfell, but he can be King of the Seven...I mean Six Kingdoms?

And if the North is now independent how does the King of the Six Kingdoms have the authority to sentence someone to go to the Wall, in the North?

Because Bran knew he was going to be king. You can't say yes to a lordship when you're going to be king soon.

[QuinnM]

8 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

Anyone else think Brienne was gonna write, “Survived by his son/daughter”? No? Just me? 

Hahaha, thank god.  The other people in the room with me thought I was ‘just sick’.

[Captain Carrot]

11 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Not quite. They've established a system where a king (or queen) is appointed by the ruling families - not inherited by right. It's not yet democracy, but it's heading in that direction.

If I remember correctly the Holy Roman Empire had a similar system, and it didn't work out that well. The nobles started electing ineffectual rulers, as that allowed the nobles to have more power in their own lands.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Captain Carrot

[kieyra]

10 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I liked it. The goodbye scene with the Stark children made me verklempt. I am sad Dany went the way she did though. 

How many times have people in the North yammered and proclaimed so and so King/Queen of the North? Don’t get too comfy in the big chair Sansa. 

Ser Pod FTW!!!

Anyone else think Brienne was gonna write, “Survived by his son/daughter”? No? Just me? 

I don’t get the last part here—oh never mind, I just got it. I thought you meant J/C offspring. Yeah, that would have been a tearjerker. 

[mammaM]

10 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

I liked it. The goodbye scene with the Stark children made me verklempt. I am sad Dany went the way she did though. 

How many times have people in the North yammered and proclaimed so and so King/Queen of the North? Don’t get too comfy in the big chair Sansa. 

Ser Pod FTW!!!

Anyone else think Brienne was gonna write, “Survived by his son/daughter”? No? Just me? 

I kept thinking Brienne was gonna end up with a Lannister-in-the-oven because, why not

[JennyMominFL]

15 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Sure it was. It was created by writers, actors, designers. If you want to say it was bad art, you are free to do so.

It was certainly art to me. If the toilet i saw at the Tate Modern in London is considered art, this sure was

[AuxArx]

I thought it was a pretty satisfying ending; not exciting, but satisfying.

Poor Drogon and his mother...I wonder where he took her?

Ghost got his boy back!

Seeing dead Jaime and Cersei was kind of sad, even if they were a couple of twisted individuals.

I was afraid Grey Worm was going to do something to Jon there at the ships, but he just glared.

Almost everyone got an okay ending except maybe for Jon, but I don't think he ever would have been happy as a ruler.

Arguing about the merits of brothels, yay or nay, was kind of funny.

And Tormund needed to go back and comfort Brienne!  Come on, big guy.

It's kind of like the ending to Lost--there are parts you like, and parts you just don't quite understand.  But that's okay.  I will miss the show, though.

Edited May 20, 2019 by AuxArx

[Lemuria]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think he’s going free. I think he’s helping the Free Folk get settled. At this point the Nightswatch will likely be a long term penal colony and a diplomatic point of contact with the freefolk. 

I don't think so.  That's why we had the shot of his turning around and watching the gate close.  There still is no Nights Watch.  I think the two men with Jon were there to pacify Greyworm, who probably wanted to know if Jon definitely went there.

I don't think Tyrion ever believe Jon would stay at the totally empty Castle Black.  I also think he (or Bran) sent word to Tormund.  Because there was no reason for the Free Folk to be at CB.  They didn't need it, or want to live there, before the NK, and they have no reason to want it now.

That's why we had a hint of a smile on Jon's face at the end.  He was finally free.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

[UNOSEZ]

12 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 Oh, also Arya sneaking up on Jon will never get old.

I chuckled out loud

[AimingforYoko]

Just now, Captain Carrot said:

It's not yet democracy, but it's heading in that direction.

I appreciated Royce laughing in Sam's face at that one. If they had gone straight to democracy, it would have been ridiculous.

[OllieSocks]

2 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

Poor Rickon.

Underrated comment. 

[Mystery]

Drogon trying to nudge Dany awake was heartbreaking. 

Jon and Ghost together, Arya off to find adventures, Tyrion still alive and kicking. Nothing else really mattered to me. 

[Francie]

Let me do this right, in long form:

Brienne:  ... in an attempt to save the capital from destruction. 

Ghost of Stannis: Capitol.

Brienne: What?

Ghost of Stannis: Capitol. He came to save the building. Not the city. 

Brienne: I’m pretty sure he meant to save the city.

Ghost of Stannis: Fine, then.  Nevermind. 

[chrisvee]

4 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Jon was totally saying goodbye to the Wall when he gave it a last look.

Also, those are the Free Folks’ lands, they don’t need there help of a single man - or anyone - to settle.

Yep Jon saying bye bye bye.

[QuinnM]

Just now, AuxArx said:

Almost everyone got an okay ending except maybe for Jon, but I don't think he ever would have been happy as a ruler.

Jon is just one of those people that is Eyore.   But at least he’ll be in a place where Pooh (Tormund) can remind him of what joy looks like.

[MKL122788]

Okay, so first off...my major issue with what happened.

Everything before the slight time jump.

Last episode, King's Landing and the red keep was reduced to, basically, nothing. Or so it seemed. Tyrion walks through it, mostly intact. Some devastation, but not a ton. Furthermore, in the crypts where Cersei and Jamie died, there was almost no rubble on the ground. Had they hid in a single dragon skull, they would've lived. I swear that I watched that entire red keep basically implode on itself. Did I delude myself or is that just absolutely god awful consisency in the story?

So, Dany never went all mad queen. The narrative in her head that we do not get to see in the show must be the Dany the conqueror/liberator. This is a much more believable transformation...she became overzealous in her belief that she alone knew what a better world was. She believes that she has to break every society in order to make way for the new one. That would've been a much better buildup into her actions last episode. I look forward to getting to read the inner monologues in the book. That said, with proper advising, this is the kind of shit that would be completely avoided. Intentionally making all of Dany's intelligent advisors act stupid and lead to this runaway thought processes? Not great.

Tyrion having to talk John into believing that she was a big threat to society? This kid is utterly useless. He was so resistant. A nice callback to Aemon, though. Fitting that John is now the Targaryen alone in the world.

Drogon letting John live? Fine. Flying away with Dany? Fine. That dragon is a good boy.

Arya really served no purpose for being in King's Landing, did she?

Pacing was seriously sleep inducing...but at least that is better than the rushed blaze of previous episodes.

After the jump:

Why is everyone bending to Tyrion's will at the trial when he is literally on trial? Oh look, Tyrion says it has been weeks. Oh look, King's Landing is basically already completely rebuilt. That was conveniently fast for it being completely decimated. It also appears to be bustling. Guess too many people didn't die then.

Grey Worm...letting someone who clearly doesn't want either of his prisoners harmed get elected to...do exactly that. Okay, fine. Going to Narth...a tribute to Missandei. Too bad they will all die there.

Bran as king? Meh. Another male character who was literally useless all season failing upward. If he knew all this shit was going to happen and didn't make any attempt at all to stop it, that is some true, next level, power hungry shit. Tyrion becoming hand? Another male character failing upward. John being LCotNW? Same. Having a penis really does matter in Westeros. Honestly, I am meh on most of that. At least he greeted Ghost.

Sansa claiming the north is independent? When she didn't get to be queen, I guess she had to hold on to some power some way. I am meh on this too. She did work hard for the money.

Arya doing her own thing. Alright then.

Brienne finishes Jamie's story was sweet. The new council...ah, boys club. Nice to see change...oh wait. Oh look, more bad jokes. Poor Brienne having to listen to that garbage.

Overall:

Whatever, this episode didn't suck. Some mild irritation that, really, just exposed some maddening inconsistencies in the last 2 seasons of plot and character development. These inconsistencies reached a pinnacle this season. I am okay with this episode relative to the last few for sure.

I am thankful it is all over.

[ICantDoThatDave]

A few weeks ago, I thought they were heading for a happy ending, & I would have been fine with that, but this was a fitting ending.

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Jon was totally saying goodbye to the Wall when he gave it a last look.

Also, those are the Free Folks’ lands, they don’t need there help of a single man - or anyone - to settle.

Good point- but would honorable Jon just abandon his punishment?!! If he’s been sentenced to the wall he would stay there no?

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, MissL said:

I actually said out loud when Tyrion was making his speech for Bran to be king “well this is stupid”. Who has a better story than Bran? How about half the people sitting in those chairs?

A story so great we cut  him out of a whole season and no one noticed!

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I don't think so.  That's why we had the shot of his turning around and watching the gate close.  There still is no Nights Watch.  I think the two men with Jon were there to pacify Greyworm, who probably wanted to know if Jon definitely went there.

I don't think Tyrion ever believe Jon would stay at the totally empty Castle Black.  I also think he (or Bran) sent word to Tormund.  Because there was no reason for the Free Folk to be at CB.  They didn't need it, or want to live there, before the NK, and they have no reason to want it now.

That's why we had a hint of a smile on Jon's face at the end.  He was finally free.

Okay that makes sense. You guys are right. 

[Francie]

Brienne’s last entry for Jaime Lannister in the White Book:

“Despite loss of dominant hand, remained able to please a woman elsewise, including with tongue. Allegedly.”

[CletusMusashi]

If the north is seceding, why do they get a vote for who's in charge of the Six Kingdoms?

And, because I will never stop being pissed off every time they say stupid crap like this: if the north was an independent kingdom for thousands of years, why couldn't they think of a name? Sam needs to send some maesters up north to check for lead in their water.

Edited May 20, 2019 by CletusMusashi

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, laprin said:

Wait, so the guy who has been “Not Bran” for two seasons because he is the Three-Eyed Raven is suddenly cool with being Bran Stark? How do they know that they can trust him?  Seems to me, the Three-Eyed Raven has been plotting the whole time to rule the kingdom. 

I did not buy that Dany was so far gone that death was the only answer, but whatever show. 🙄

That council meeting was a shit-show. Bronn, Master of Coin? Good luck, Six Kingdoms, you’ll need it.  At least, Winterfell looks to be in good hands. 

Yup, Not Bran is suddenly Bran again, with no explanation.

I didn't buy Dany turning murderer of children, but given that the hack writers put that in the last episode, the retconned Dany had to die.

They have no master of war, but they make a guy who is great at war, and terrible with money, master of coin?

That was like Charles Minor putting Kevin at reception and making Stanley his Productivity Czar

[HunterHunted]

1 minute ago, kieyra said:

I believe if Grey Worm was going to kill Jon, he would have done it when he had him in captivity for weeks. I found the fact that he *didn’t* to be hard to believe, but I guess he’s supposed to have chosen peace. 

The show did an awful job of providing a plurality of voices in the Unsullied or the Dothraki, but I suspect there was a decent amount of disagreement about what to do with Jon. We've seen time after time that those dragons would snap and growl at anyone who got near Dany. They'd routinely roast people who tried to hurt Dany. Even people like Grey Worm and Missandei couldn't get near the dragons. Jon kills Dany, but Drogon doesn't attack Jon or try to roast him. Drogon melts the Iron Throne and leaves with her corpse. I suspect that many of those who followed her to this cold unpleasant place where they fought and lost friends fighting frozen dead people, were surrounded by a completely foreign culture, and just had Dany tell them that there would be more of the same for probably a decade felt like they should just leave Jon for the Westerosi to deal with.

[UNOSEZ]

11 minutes ago, MissL said:

Also apparently if Tyrion cries I cry. Last episode with Jaime and this one when he finds Jaime and  Cersei dead. Rip my heart out Peter Dinklage.

Thought it was just me... I was like.. This SOB has me crying over Cersei 

[seacliffsal]

I have found it interesting that the Stark children (including Jon) always spoke about what Ned said or the example he set.  Obviously, none of them found Catelyn to be of much value in terms of life lessons (well, and her actions did start the war although Jaime and Cersei trying to hide the evidences of their incest really set everything into motion).

And, I believe that Arya was sailing under the banner of the independent kingdom of Winterfell as she had the Stark family banner flying on her ship.  If she discovers riches and wealth, they will probably benefit Winterfell.  The final irony of all may be that Ned established a family lineage that may end up far more powerful and far more wealthy than that of the Lannisters or Targaryans.  Ned, you may have been questioned for your morals and decisions in season 1, but you are the ultimate winner in the Game of Thrones.

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Good point- but would honorable Jon just abandon his punishment?!! If he’s been sentenced to the wall he would stay there no?

He was probably pardoned by Queen Sansa since she rules the North and the Wall is in the North. Plus what exactly is the Night's Watch supposed to do? They were there to guard the Wall. The Wall is gone and not needed anymore. 

I think Jon went to join the Wildings as free man. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Sakura12

[filmfan2480]

31 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I didn't hate it, it was just boring and predictable. Who knew one of the most exciting shows of the generation could go out with such a whimper. 

I think that's it.  I didn't hate it, either.  I'm quite fine with quite a bit of it.  But yeah, this incredible show that gave us the likes of the Red Wedding ended on a whimper, for sure.

[Mystery]

7 minutes ago, MKL122788 said:

Drogon letting John live? Fine. Flying away with Dany? Fine. That dragon is a good boy.

Arya really served no purpose for being in King's Landing, did she?

Pacing was seriously sleep inducing...but at least that is better than the rushed blaze of previous episodes.

I forgot to say that I was glad to see Drogon alive, at least. 

Arya in King's Landing just reminds me of The Big Bang Theory when Amy had her theory about Indiana Jones. The Kings Landing story would have been the same without her. 

I thought that the pacing was terrible, starting off with watching Tyrion take HOW MANY STEPS to finding Jaime and Cersei. The director knew that this was the last episode, right?

Edited May 20, 2019 by Mystery

[laprin]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

So how is Bran, "I am not Brandon Stark anymore, I'm the 3ER" suddenly Brandon (the Broken) Stark again?

He repeatedly told everyone who would listen that he could never be Lord of Winterfell, but he can be King of the Seven...I mean Six Kingdoms?

And if the North is now independent how does the King of the Six Kingdoms have the authority to sentence someone to go to the Wall, in the North?

We must have been posting near the same time. I am on the same page!  We don’t even know how much of Brandon remains in the Three-Eyed Raven. Now, we know why he was so useless. He could not put his own life at-risk. Instead, he needed to sew distrust between Dany and the Starks and Dany and Jon because it served his purpose. As per usual, Tyrion gave more bad advice in selecting him over Sansa.  They better hope that the Three-Eyed Raven never turns against the North. He can warg into Drogon at any time. 

[treeranchlady]

22 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I was surprised by how much I loved this episode.  I felt it was a good send off of this show that I have watched from season 1 episode 1 (and have kept my HBO subscription to the show-even over the long hiatus; I will cancel my subscription after next week's documentary).

Although not a full democracy, they are heading that way.  More of a Parliamentary style government with the Lords/Ladies choosing the King/Queen which I would imagine would eventually include more and more people in the decision making process.

I was surprised to see Sam and Brienne in the Dragon Pit and then remembered that they were from major houses and inherited the titles/houses.  I really liked that Brienne finished Jaime's entry.

Lots of good feels for the episode (although there could have been a bit less narrative from Tyrion, but why cut his expositions now?).  I'm sure I'll add more tomorrow, but am going to head off to bed.

Just so you all know, I have really enjoyed the thread through all of the seasons and through all of the website changes... Whether I agreed or disagreed with your posts, I always enjoyed reading from them and appreciated varying perspectives.

It has been great...I'll miss ya all!

[Francie]

If this episode isn’t titled, “Sit down, Uncle,” I’m going to be thoroughly disappointed. 

[lmsweb]

Going to post my thoughts now because I'm already cringing knowing that the majority of this thread is going to be people shitting on the episode.

It wasn't perfect. It felt rushed, much as the whole season has. Visually, it was stunning, as it has been all season. The actors still knocked it out of the park, for the most part. But there was no way this ending was going to satisfy most people. Everyone has, in their own mind, a version of this ending that didn't get shown, which means most people will be disappointed by it. Try not to let that take away from the rest of the series and the hard work the cast and everyone involved has put into it. Yes, that includes D&D. We've had years of fabulous TV entertainment thanks to them. I'm not willing to crucify them because the last season didn't go how everyone wanted it to.

Now, as to the episode itself - I'm not unhappy with where everyone ended up and how it went down. I do think Jon being a Targ amounted to nothing, but then, so did the Night King and we were all certain that was going to be the big point of the series. Turns out in the end it boils down to the realities of everyday living and ruling - which actually feels authentic and very GRRM.

I choked up over Arya and Jon. I choked up over Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei and his scene with Jon was fabulous as well. Brienne being Lady Commander of the Kingsguard? Perfect. As was seeing Ser Podrick as a Kingsguard as well. Jon quoting Aemon Targaryeon. Tormund waiting at the Wall for Jon. Lots of good little moments.

Dany going full on Heil Hitler was actually a little terrifying. I was disappointed that Grey Worm was still apparently in Berserker mode. I have a lingering question in my mind about Drogon burning down the throne - they've made it clear before the dragons are actually quite intelligent. Yet he didn't eat Jon (or burn him). He just carted Dany off and that was it.

Overall - not the finale many wanted. But I refuse to let it ruin the whole series for me. I'll miss seeing what happens with Arya next, and who gets made the new Master of Whispers. And does Gilly have a boy or a girl, and what do they name her? If a show has ended and left me still interested in it's character's futures, then it's done what it's supposed to do, IMHO.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Sakura12 said:

He was probably pardoned by Queen Sansa since she rules the North and the Wall is in the North. Plus what exactly is the Night's Watch supposed to do? They were there to guard the Wall. The Wall is gone and not needed anymore. 

I think Jon went to join the Wildings as free man. 

Yes this makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Jon did his duty and is free from all these political entanglements. Ygritte is dead but he can meet another woman and stay in the cave forever.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, CletusMusashi said:

If the north is seceding, why do they get a vote for who's in charge of the Six Kingdoms?

And, because I will never stop being pissed off every time they stupid crap like this: if the north was an independent kingdom for thousands of years, why couldn't they think of a name? Sam needs to send some maesters up north to check for lead in their water. 

Don't lots of kingdoms have names that if you trace them back far enough mean something "the land" or something? The North is too badass for a name is the idea, I think.

[UNOSEZ]

11 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Oh another thing that made me mad: we didnt even see Arya say goodbye to Bran and Sansa.

It wasn't needed... Jon and Arya gave us all the familial feels we needed.. Besides Bran is a creepy Robot and Sansa probably still liked Robbie more than Arya and Jon... Plus Jon was still salty that Sansa told.. So they were a bit fraught.... I waited 8 seasons but I got my Jon/Arya moments so I'm good

[Growsonwalls]

I hope Jon finds himself a nice Wildling woman who is not also his aunt.

[Daisy]

I have to find it interesting - that basically. nothing's changed - but at the same time everything's changed. 

so basically almost 30ish years ago. Rhaegar and Lyanna run off and have a child, sparking a war, and ended with the "wrong" man on the throne - saying to his best friend years later. "I always thought it should have been you who sat on the bloody chair, Ned."

lots of tyranny and chaos, the wheel changing spoke by spoke, and even the attempt to "smash" the wheel (keeping it on Targ) - was basically thwarted by Rhaegar's son - basically leaving the realm where we started with... new generation, picking someone who doesn't want to be king, and leaving a future that could lead to turmoil and chaos but it was better than what they had - they hope. 

the wheel, just keeps turning...