S08.E03: The Long Night

[millennium]

12 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

I'm so very disappointed he was still alive at the end of this episode. I wanted the zombie ice dragon to devour him

Bran is good for the digestion.

[Coxfires]

31 minutes ago, steelyis said:

Me! Davos came off small and petty. I expected better of him.

It's disheartening, because even after everything that just happened a lot of these people are going to fall back into old habits and rehash pointless vendettas instead of focusing on building something new and better.

But unfortunately this is deeply human, as history and modern times prove it once and again. We never learn. And that is why I am glad we did not end up on Humanity vs Death. The truth is that power,  greed, ego are inherent to human conditions and in the end the real evil we just can't get rid of 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Coxfires

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, Rebky said:

what was the purpose of Bran warging out?

Maybe:

When he wargs, the Night King couldn't read his mind. (Or his mind was so empty that NK decided that spending time there was a waste of his time?) (The mental equivalent of singing a hundred bottles of beer on the wall, etc.)

1 hour ago, Bali said:

turn up the brightness. For us, it was probably too dark. Now I have to watch it again for that.

Brightness and contrast change really did wonders.  The shadows in hand to hand battles became characters we loved.

[Advance35]

Quote

Sansa being afraid during the battle and not rousing her people. No, she didn't. She is a survivor, not a warrior. Big BIG difference. Her royal training is reserved to sewing and how to do her damn hair! It probably never occurred to her to boost them up. It probably never occurred to her to boost herself up much. She isn't Little Bear. She was in fully over her head. Even Tyrion didn't have much to say. As for the hiding, everyone was hiding. Sansa and Tyrions hiding (in my opinion) was so fans could see the hand kiss.

This sums up my feelings.

I think when Sansa encounters dangerous situations, her inner thoughts are "live through this, live through this, live through this."

Brave as Lyanna was, she's dead and so is her House.

Survival is the name of the game.  Sansa wins as long as she's still alive.

And credit where it's due.  I've loved some of Sansa's sewing.  Her mockingbird dress and her wedding attire (In Season 5) were some of my favorite ensembles on the whole show.

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, Lady S. said:

No, but she was in the godswood with Theon and co, and he was the last one standing, so I'm assuming she didn't make it.

That's what I thought as well. I would have thought she'd end up in the crypts but she had a bow and arrows when she went with Bran so apparently planned to fight. Not that she was a major character, but she hasn't been mentioned among the dead.

[sistermagpie]

I just watched the ep and one thing I was looking out for was imagining Sansa comforting anyone in the crypt and it really seemed like it would have been tone deaf of her to try to do anything like that. I feel like people would have even found it disrespectful. She did in the end seem to find courage to me, when she took out her knife she had little idea how to use. (Luckily she'd gotten lesson one.)

But the main thing  that struck me is people keep making fun of Jon for yelling at the dragon, which is just Jon yelling in frustration and desperation because he's tried so many times to get past the dragon to get to Bran and he can't. But then Arya kills the NK and the dragon disintegrates and I find myself wondering if Jon was like...wow, did I do that? Like maybe yelling at him really did do the trick!

[MVFrostsMyPie]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

I don't think the writers ever intended for him to be the one to kill the NK, and kill Cersei, and claim the Iron Throne.  Then GoT would just turn into the Jon Snow Show.  He might still do one of those other things, but they're not going to have him be the star of every definitive moment.

In the behind the scenes episode, D&D said they'd known Arya would be the one to kill the NK for the last 3 years. So yeah, it was never meant to be Jon Snow. He knows nothing. It was pretty funny how Kit pretended to be mad though about that when he was being interviewed.

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Kate47 said:

I feel like, had they given Sansa a training scene, and had she managed to retain the knowledge in her first battle against the dead in the crypt, and had she managed to kill one or two dead Starks....

People would be crying out that she killed them too easily, that she's not a fighter, that she's a Sue.

It's literally a no win situation for her in the eyes of a lot of commenters, because Sansa is apparently terrible no matter what she does. 

Haven’t you been paying attention? She disagreed with Jon. IN PUBLIC.

/s 

Edited April 30, 2019 by kieyra

[Lady S.]

5 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

That's what I thought as well. I would have thought she'd end up in the crypts but she had a bow and arrows when she went with Bran so apparently planned to fight. Not that she was a major character, but she hasn't been mentioned among the dead.

Her dad had an offscreen death in BotB too, and I remember thinking it was weird we didn't find out what happened to him til 7.01. She's older than Lyanna Mormont and wore a sword in her first scene, so I wasn't surprised to see her going into battle, but was surprised it was with Theon's men instead of her own. Guess she and l'il Ned Umber redeemed their fathers' (and grandfather's too in her case) treason.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

The crypt sequence basically goes like this. Zombies start breaking out the tombs and attacking people. Cut to: Tyrion and Sansa hiding behind a sarcophagus looking petrified, Sansa takes out her dagger, they share a meaningful look, and then they move out. Cut to Tyrion and Sansa finding Varys, Missandei, and the rest of the people, then Arya kills the Night King. Did I miss something?

Right. To me it looked like Tyrion and Sansa were going to head out and face things but the scene got cut. He kissed her hand and then they made a move and then the scene cut away. They were standing in front of everyone later. And honestly, why are there people picking on Sansa for not fighting ... when Tyrion was doing the same damn thing?!? I actually liked that Sansa wasn't out there making things harder and having people trying to protect her. Unlike you know SAM! Jesus. Why can't we lose that guy?

I loved when Bran told Theon he was home. I loved the music. I even loved how dark and chaotic it all was ... because that's how it actually would be.

I'm glad Ghost made it and the other 2 dragons. I wanted to add that in addition to how great the dragons look in general, I always appreciate the little 'verbal' stuff they give them. Like the cries when Drogon is being attacked by the wights. Or the sound of sadness he makes for Dany when Jorah died.

[tv-talk]

I took that scene to mean Tyrion and Sansa were going to try and lead Varys and the kids out of the crypts. 

Arya killing the Night King is perfect, though if all it took was a dragon glass dagger they should have had a better plan in place.  A single arrow could have taken him out.

Jon could have incinerated 10,000 undead in a few minutes after the Night King flew off, instead he let the North get decimated and probably for love of Danny. 

[MissL]

I'm ok with Sansa and Tyrion being in the crypt because there are plenty of good reasons for them to be there. What I don't like is that Arya is the only one who thought to give anyone down there a weapon? They had to know there was somewhat of a chance the crypt would be breached...and yeah they may not be fighters down there but if your life or a child's life is in danger you'll at least give it a SHOT. 

What...did they figure ig the wights got to them then all the soldiers are already dead and they might as well just stop fighting? 

[Giselle]

1 hour ago, Kate47 said:

I feel like, had they given Sansa a training scene, and had she managed to retain the knowledge in her first battle against the dead in the crypt, and had she managed to kill one or two dead Starks....

People would be crying out that she killed them too easily, that she's not a fighter, that she's a Sue.

It's literally a no win situation for her in the eyes of a lot of commenters, because Sansa is apparently terrible no matter what she does. 

She still has to pay for the sins of her youth. Season 1 Episode 1 she lied & sold out her family because she was smitten with Joffery.

Only right she continues to pay till her dying day.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

6 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Arya killing the Night King is perfect, though if all it took was a dragon glass dagger they should have had a better plan in place.  A single arrow could have taken him out.

It was Valyrian steel, and she stabbed him where the Children stabbed him. She gave her dragonglass dagger to Sansa.

[Bannon]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I took Bran as saying he was dying as a good man, not that he had made up for things he did in the past, exactly. That is, he wasn't "a good man all along" or "a good man underneath" even when he killed the boys and took over Winterfell, he was a good man now because he was honestly trying to atone for what he did and do a good thing for no other reason than that.

Same thing with Jaime, really. It seems like part of his nasty attitude in the past was thinking that he was bad so there was no point in trying to do the right thing, that he had the name so might as well live up to it etc. But he could still be a good man right now and in the future. Anyone can. Even if they can't undo being a bad person yesterday.

This plays in to something I thought of upon rewatch. My best guess at this point is that Bran's purpose is essentially theological. He is to be the repository of knowledge of the history of Westeros, and maybe elsewhere, and thereby unite the people, no matter their religion. We've seen one of the high priestesses of The Lord of Light redeem herself and then die. Theon, born to people who worship The Drowned God, raised in the Northern Weirwood Tree religion, is given absolution by Bran prior to dying.We've seen Brienne resolve her life's struggle, gaining Knighthood via a blessing involving the southern Westerosi Gods. Maybe Bran will play a role in removing the corruption of that religion, that was represented by The High Sparrow and his thuggish disciples. Makes me think about the meaning of the Ian McShane episode.

Anyways, liked the episode better upon rewatch, even if I still didn't love it.

[tv-talk]

5 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

It was Valyrian steel, and she stabbed him where the Children stabbed him. She gave her dragonglass dagger to Sansa.

Oh well in that case great stuff, far better to have Arya kill him than John and it would have been odd if any single piece of dragonglass could take him out. 

[WatchrTina]

3 hours ago, MrsR said:

Let's face fictional facts. Winterfell itself is a crappy castle to defend. No natural defenses like a river or a promontory. It's built on flat land.

Two words:  Hot Springs.  That's why they picked that location.

Edited April 30, 2019 by WatchrTina

[Macbeth]

I noticed that Rhaegal and Drogon was sniping at each other at the beginning of the battle. 

It's when Jon gets off of Rhaegal and joins Dany at the top of a hill overlooking the battle. 

It looks like the children have picked up that the parents are fighting and have taken sides. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Macbeth

[LittleIggy]

Have to give props to the people who created the Night King’s make-up, costume, etc. He was really visually impressive.

Loved the music in this episode, especially in the last part. 

Watched again and cried again when Lady Mormont died. 😞

[lovinbob]

10 hours ago, riff-raff said:

 Second -- I needed better closure on why Bran was so important and why the NK was so keen on killing him.  "Bran is the one with memories" was too thin a sauce, IMO.  I would have liked to see Bran have some role in the battle other than just "bait" which validated the importance and mysticism surrounding his character.   

Here's my take on this, and it may apply to the whole damn series. The Night King wanted what all of the erstwhile and hopeful kings wanted, and what Dany wants: to rule everything. It wasn't enough to terrorize the Wildlings and the Night's Watch and the North. He wasn't content with his raggedy horses and wights. He wanted to rule over everything, he wanted his giants and his dragons, and (if Bran and Sam are correct, which it seems they are) to erase the world's memory. He wasn't content to rule the Night; he wanted all of Westeros, just like Dany and Robert, and the Mad King. 

The whole joint could learn a lesson from the Night King, who had pretty much conquered everything but just *had* to vanquish the Three Eyed Raven and his wargy memories.

What will happen to Dany if she sacrifices love and loyalty and all that because she insists the North bend the knee to her? Cersei has already abandoned it all. Can't they all just get along in their separate kingdoms?

Also, the Night King may not have Evil Gloated, but his strut to Bran cost him.

RIP Jorah Mormont--my first and last GOT boyfriend. His death scene was some of Emilia Clarke's best work—and Drogon's too. 

Theon was truly amazing, and Alfie Allen was powerful. That moment with Bran was so out of character--that Bran would offer praise and absolution. Made me wonder if Bran might return to being Bran?

Can't wait to see Jamie and Brienne with Cersei. Cheers to the poster who said Cersei's death might come via Sansa and the knife Arya gave her--that would be fitting.

[CletusMusashi]

I can't help thinking that a few centuries from now there's going to be a documentary about "Operation get Behind the Dothrakis:"

"The Targaryans knew that such a large number of swarthy uncastrated men could never be assimilated by the west, and thus began the infamous Dothraki Genocide. These peaceful, naive hunter-gatherers had already been separated from their families and brought to Westeros in bondage, only to be ordered into a cruel suicide mission in order to placate the xenophobic Thenorthians. Thankfully for the Seven Kingdoms, a kindly pyromancer wandered by in time to ignite their weaponry. The Dothraki were nonetheless destroyed in mere minutes, but at least they brought untold millions of giant ice spiders, creepy hammer-wielding dentist elves, bouncing Bumbles, giant wights, woolly mammoth zombies, vampire walruses, nihilistic narwhals, and  beligerant mummy-puffins along with them."

Edited May 5, 2019 by CletusMusashi

[voiceover]

(apparently I've spent the past 48 hours posting in the wrong thread. *clears throat* So here I am in the "no book" place, to honor Theon and his portrayer, Alfie Allen)

This show has birthed some fascinating character arcs (all the Stark children, for example), and a few -- even more compelling -- redemption arcs: Jaime. The Hound. Theon Greyjoy.

But of those three men (and now I love them all; *hated them in the early going), only Theon has had both an emotional/moral/spiritual redemption, and a physical one.

Jaime was always attractive (See my Ep 1 ref to his current facial hair...I believe the post included the phrase "want to lick it off"); Clegane was always ugly.

But Theon went from this:

-- rat-like, resentful, whingeing, wretched, broken, terrified, resigned --

to this:

-- bathed in the golden light of the True Hero: self-sacrificing, humbled, grateful, loving.

And finally: handsome.

Standing O, Alfie.  I bought it all, and I mourned your death more than any one since Ned's.

Edited April 30, 2019 by voiceover

[Coxfires]

20 minutes ago, voiceover said:

(apparently I've spent the past 48 hours posting in the wrong thread. *clears throat* So here I am in the "no book" place, to honor Theon and his portrayer, Alfie Allen)

This show has birthed some fascinating character arcs (all the Stark children, for example), and a few -- even more compelling -- redemption arcs: Jaime. The Hound. Theon Greyjoy.

But of those three men (and now I love them all; *hated them in the early going), only Theon has had both an emotional/moral/spiritual redemption, and a physical one.

Jaime was always attractive (See my Ep 1 ref to his current facial hair...I believe the post included the phrase "want to lick it off"); Clegane was always ugly.

But Theon went from this:

-- rat-like, resentful, whingeing, wretched, broken, terrified, resigned --

to this:

-- bathed in the golden light of the True Hero: self-sacrificing, humbled, grateful, loving.

And finally: handsome.

Standing O, Alfie.  I bought it all, and I mourned your death more than any one since Ned's.

One of the most overlooked by the general media but thankfully appreciated by fans. He truly knocked it out of the park

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, voiceover said:

(apparently I've spent the past 48 hours posting in the wrong thread. *clears throat* So here I am in the "no book" place, to honor Theon and his portrayer, Alfie Allen)

This show has birthed some fascinating character arcs (all the Stark children, for example), and a few -- even more compelling -- redemption arcs: Jaime. The Hound. Theon Greyjoy.

But of those three men (and now I love them all; *hated them in the early going), only Theon has had both an emotional/moral/spiritual redemption, and a physical one.

Jaime was always attractive (See my Ep 1 ref to his current facial hair...I believe the post included the phrase "want to lick it off"); Clegane was always ugly.

But Theon went from this:

-- rat-like, resentful, whingeing, wretched, broken, terrified, resigned --

to this:

-- bathed in the golden light of the True Hero: self-sacrificing, humbled, grateful, loving.

And finally: handsome.

Standing O, Alfie.  I bought it all, and I mourned your death more than any one since Ned's.

I think this says it best:

I love that Arya killed TNK because it was unexpected, but there fans were disappointed. Even Maisie knew some people would be let down how the big villain was killed Entertainment Weekly:

Quote

“It was so unbelievably exciting,” Williams told Entertainment Weekly. “But I immediately thought that everybody would hate it; that Arya doesn’t deserve it. The hardest thing in any series is when you build up a villain that’s so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them. It has to be intelligently done because otherwise people are like, ‘Well, [the villain] couldn’t have been that bad when some 100-pound girl comes in and stabs him.’ You gotta make it cool. And then I told my boyfriend and he was like, ‘Mmm, should be Jon though really, shouldn’t it?’”

Also, while I appreciate Melisandre's help with the trench and giving Arya the idea for killing the Night King, I did not expect Davos to forgive her! And people saying he was being petty for still wanting to still kill her after the battle? Really? I mean...

I don't think Melisandre told Davos or anyone "Oh by the way it was my idea that Arya kill the Night King, and saved you all"

Edited April 30, 2019 by VCRTracking

[crowsworks]

12 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I think this says it best:

I love that Arya killed TNK because it was unexpected, but there fans were disappointed. Even Maisie knew some people would be let down how the big villain was killed Entertainment Weekly:

Loved Theon - the NK saw him as a threat - Not Arya, he held her up like am annoying kitten  - Big mistake. He didn't know she had a support team of Mel, Hound and others who made sure she was there... and it made that faceless season worth it.

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, Kate47 said:

I feel like, had they given Sansa a training scene, and had she managed to retain the knowledge in her first battle against the dead in the crypt, and had she managed to kill one or two dead Starks....

People would be crying out that she killed them too easily, that she's not a fighter, that she's a Sue.

It's literally a no win situation for her in the eyes of a lot of commenters, because Sansa is apparently terrible no matter what she does. 

Please allow me to introduce myself
A woman of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

[crowsworks]

ps: I DVr'd the 9 HBO showing and also the 2;30 AND for some reason, the later showing was much lighter and you could see what was happening. Just saying - maybe it was my crap DTV dish but maybe HBO muffed it? Try it again?

I saw Trevor AND Steven joke about how dark it was.

[MissLucas]

5 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

When Davos glared at Melisandre at the end, did anyone else think "Fuck off, Davos"?  She just helped save millions of lives.  It was terrible what she did to Shireen, but her parents agreed to it and let it happen.  But he was still prepared to kill her in the end, until she killed herself.

Nope. Killing Shireen was just one of many crimes. And she was on borrowed time. I was glad Davos made sure that she kept her end of the bargain. 

[Oscirus]

Still not a fan of  a war where no inconvenient  characters died.  Characters close to Dany died but none that would affect the plot. Hell getting rid of the dothraki only helps her politically.

While I get the fan service of the scene, Lyannas death scene was cheesy as fuck. What even was the giant doing putting her near his eye like that?

Im a bit numb about the Arya killing the nightwalker thing. I guess its fine but eh, this era of subverting expectations is taking it's toll on the stories of today.

Even though you took the claustrophobia of the crypt and turned it into a Tyrion Sansa stan session, I didn't hate it.

Im not about to forgive Mellisandre or Theon for being child killers they can go to hell. But props to Jorah going out on his terms.

Way too dark.

[ElizaD]

I just realized... it looks like every single character in last episode's "we're all going to die" fireside chat ended up surviving. What a non-event this undead invasion turned out to be.

[merrick715]

 

 

 

2

7 hours ago, Lady S. said:

I feel like there may have been cut footage between Sansa/Tyrion coming out from behind the statue and the last shot where they're all clear, because the bts stuff appears to show them emerging and actually encountering the wights.

They cut a scene of Tyrion and Sansa killing a wright. Someone on twitter put the six-second clip here.

[LadyPenelope]

Watching a night later than everyone else gives me a lot of reading to catch up on! In summary:

I don’t especially like Arya but I didn’t mind her killing the NK - it felt earned. Plus it means she is unlikely to be the one to kill Cersei, which pleases me.

The Jon/Dany relationship has soured me on Dany so much that I had forgotten that I actually like her. I really felt for her this episode, as she lost everything she had fought so hard for - the Dothraki, including Drogo’s last bloodrider and her last link to him, the Unsullied, and her best friend. I lost it when Jorah died. They were one of the only two relationships on this show I care about, and I’m glad he died protecting her, but my god that was heartbreaking. 

Jon was fine. In fact, the only character who irritated me this episode was Sam, just flopping around getting people killed after refusing to go to the crypts. I thought that much as Sam was a self-described craven, when push came to shove he had always stepped up. He really didn’t here.

I don’t understand why anyone would expect Sansa to fight - she would have been killed immediately. It’s not like Tyrion took her dagger and charged into battle, and he has a lot more combat experience than she does. I was surprised though that she made no attempt to speak to the women and children a la Blackwater. She didn’t have to sing a song, but even a speech about how bravely those outside were fighting might have been a comfort. At least Cersei provided refreshments - the crypts seemed to be BYOB. 

Theon’s death was sad, but fitting. I’m glad he acknowledged Winterfell as his home, and went some way towards making up for his previous actions. I hope the people are told about his courage. 

Cersei was absolutely right to sit this one out. Now the WW are gone, and her enemy’s army is vastly depleted. However, the decision did cost her Jaime, and that may be an even bigger loss than she currently realises if he comes back to kill her. I’m still assuming/hoping it will be him, although if we are talking about who deserves to kill her, the answer is clearly Tyrion. 

[steelyis]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Nope. Killing Shireen was just one of many crimes. And she was on borrowed time. I was glad Davos made sure that she kept her end of the bargain. 

If she had it coming then Tormund, The Hound and Jon Snow have it coming too. And unlike Melisandre none of them killed children, directly or indirectly, to help save the world. Killing Melisandre after the war would have been empty, petty revenge. It was time to let it go and move on.

Plus, I have a feeling Davos wouldn't have held Stannis accountable for his role in Shireen's death if he was still alive. And I'm not here for Davos constantly blaming Melisandre for Stannis's greed and weakness. It's the thing I hated most about Davos during that story line.

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, LadyPenelope said:

The Jon/Dany relationship has soured me on Dany so much that I had forgotten that I actually like her. I really felt for her this episode, as she lost everything she had fought so hard for - the Dothraki, including Drogo’s last bloodrider and her last link to him, the Unsullied, and her best friend. I lost it when Jorah died. They were one of the only two relationships on this show I care about, and I’m glad he died protecting her, but my god that was heartbreaking. 

One thing I get from this episode is how little it seems Jon really cares about Dany. When she fell off her dragon, where was he? Jorah was over there watching out for her. Jon is like - Brannnnnnnn.  They are like work partners. I got more love this episode from Jamie and Brianne, Hound and Arya, and Sansa and Tyrion than the main couple.  Notice there was no final kiss before the fight? Not feeling the epic love. 

[millennium]

1 hour ago, LadyPenelope said:

Cersei was absolutely right to sit this one out. Now the WW are gone, and her enemy’s army is vastly depleted. However, the decision did cost her Jaime, and that may be an even bigger loss than she currently realises if he comes back to kill her. I’m still assuming/hoping it will be him, although if we are talking about who deserves to kill her, the answer is clearly Tyrion. 

I have seen many references to Jaime killing Cersei in our discussion here, but what would be his motivation?   He still loves her.  She is carrying his child.  He has never let on that he might want to kill her -- even after she blew up the Great Sept, an act worthy of the very king Jaime slayed and which resulted in the suicide of his only living son.

That may change in an episode or two, especially if he learns she put a hit out on him with Bronn or somehow manages to kill Tyrion (don't rule it out -- I think they deliberately lulled us into a false sense of security with this most recent episode).  But for now, the intent doesn't seem to be there.

[Bali]

9 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

When Davos glared at Melisandre at the end, did anyone else think "Fuck off, Davos"?  She just helped save millions of lives.  It was terrible what she did to Shireen, but her parents agreed to it and let it happen.  But he was still prepared to kill her in the end, until she killed herself. 

Not me. I think he was just watching her, and that he had a "What just happened", resting face. I mean, he did stop to watch her walk away. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Bali

[Bali]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Wasn't that a Beatles song?  The Wight Album, right?

Yes. That's why they couldn't use it as a title. Copyright infringement. 

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, steelyis said:

If she had it coming then Tormund, The Hound and Jon Snow have it coming too. And unlike Melisandre none of them killed children, directly or indirectly, to help save the world. 

She was a religious fanatic who burned people alive in the name of a god who can't make up his mind. And those are the worst in my book. Also I'm not going to shed a tear for the Hound either if/when he bites it. 

And if killing Shireen helped save the world then we might as well claim that ultimately every action and every crime committed in the past eight season had to happen in order to save the world. That's pushing Bran's fatalism into the territory of nihilism.

Jon told Melisandre that returning to the North was her death sentence, she knew it and she accepted it. Davos did not kill her upon her arrival but let her do her shtick and earn some redemption - that was good enough and he can glare all he wants.

[Bali]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I just watched the ep and one thing I was looking out for was imagining Sansa comforting anyone in the crypt and it really seemed like it would have been tone deaf of her to try to do anything like that. I feel like people would have even found it disrespectful. She did in the end seem to find courage to me, when she took out her knife she had little idea how to use. (Luckily she'd gotten lesson one.)

She comforted Tyrion. And she probably tried to comfort the others, but the director wanted us to look at a black screen instead. 

[Friendly kitty]

41 minutes ago, millennium said:

I have seen many references to Jaime killing Cersei in our discussion here, but what would be his motivation?   He still loves her.  She is carrying his child.

I don’t think Jaime still loves Cersei. I think he already understood that she does not love him and may never have loved him. So if she begins to weave intrigues and becomes the cause of killing many innocents, especially now, after the Great Battle, then Jaime can kill her. He used to kill for her, now he will stop her. The circle closes.

7 minutes ago, Bali said:

Yes. That's why they couldn't use it as a title. Copyright infringement. 

But the name of the song does not fall under this law of ownership. There are a lot of movie episodes that are called a line from a song...

3 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Jon told Melisandre that returning to the North was her death sentence, she knew it and she accepted it.

But why did she kill herself so stupidly? I still understood if she would die for a just cause, fighting, fleeing from the dead ... And so it looked silly and strange.

[kokapetl]

Did Jon and Dany have a dragon collision due to low visibility? I couldn’t quite see.

[LadyPenelope]

56 minutes ago, millennium said:

I have seen many references to Jaime killing Cersei in our discussion here, but what would be his motivation?   He still loves her.  She is carrying his child.  He has never let on that he might want to kill her -- even after she blew up the Great Sept, an act worthy of the very king Jaime slayed and which resulted in the suicide of his only living son.

That may change in an episode or two, especially if he learns she put a hit out on him with Bronn or somehow manages to kill Tyrion (don't rule it out -- I think they deliberately lulled us into a false sense of security with this most recent episode).  But for now, the intent doesn't seem to be there.

I agree that he still loves her and doesn’t want her dead. But I think thematically that him killing her and then dying himself makes sense - they were born together, they will die together. Killing the mad king was an act of heroism misconstrued by the world as something evil; it would be fitting if he killed the mad queen in an act that the world would see as heroic and he would feel to be his greatest tragedy. Plus I’m a romantic! 

[AnnaL]

8 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

In the behind the scenes episode, D&D said they'd known Arya would be the one to kill the NK for the last 3 years. So yeah, it was never meant to be Jon Snow. He knows nothing. It was pretty funny how Kit pretended to be mad though about that when he was being interviewed.

I do understand that all signs have been pointing out to Arya for a while, I just didn't see it, but more power to her. I am proud it got to be a Stark. 

 D&D could have given this to Arya and not Jon but they could still have given Jon some meat, maybe not killing the NK but striking Viseryon and killing him. That would have given Jon something. They had him up against the wall being unable to get to Bran and then for his ending scene they had him screaming at an ice dragon. Not their best thinking, they did Jon Snow wrong and I am not surprised that Kit didn't like that part at all. I would be fuming. 

[Otherkate]

I woke up thinking of this scene of Arya and Tywin speaking of the legends/tall tales that had developed around Rob as a warrior.

Arya: They say he can't be killed.
Tywin: Do you believe them?
Arya: No, my lord. Anyone can be killed.

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, MissL said:

I'm ok with Sansa and Tyrion being in the crypt because there are plenty of good reasons for them to be there. What I don't like is that Arya is the only one who thought to give anyone down there a weapon? They had to know there was somewhat of a chance the crypt would be breached...and yeah they may not be fighters down there but if your life or a child's life is in danger you'll at least give it a SHOT. 

What...did they figure ig the wights got to them then all the soldiers are already dead and they might as well just stop fighting? 

Well the weapons would be rare. They’ve been working to make dragonglass weapons for the front lines. But yes they should have all had torches to light. 

[QuinnM]

9 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Did Jon and Dany have a dragon collision due to low visibility? I couldn’t quite see.

Yes and Jon ended up taking off the tops of the forest as well.  So we know now that dragons do not have bat radar.

[MarySNJ]

8 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Jon could have incinerated 10,000 undead in a few minutes after the Night King flew off, instead he let the North get decimated and probably for love of Danny. 

What? When did Jon ‘let the North get decimated... for the love of Dany?’ I saw fucking chaos everywhere. I saw both Dany and Jon incinerating wights, the dragons fighting in the sky and Drogon and Rhaegal injured. I don’t get this at all.

7 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I noticed that Rhaegal and Drogon was sniping at each other at the beginning of the battle. 

It's when Jon gets off of Rhaegal and joins Dany at the top of a hill overlooking the battle. 

It looks like the children have picked up that the parents are fighting and have taken sides. 

I didn’t notice, but it sounds like siblings squabbling. And I’m sure the tension of the whole scenario only made things worse. 

3 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Im a bit numb about the Arya killing the nightwalker thing. I guess its fine but eh, this era of subverting expectations is taking it's toll on the stories of today.

Even though you took the claustrophobia of the crypt and turned it into a Tyrion Sansa stan session, I didn't hate it.

Im not about to forgive Mellisandre or Theon for being child killers they can go to hell. But props to Jorah going out on his terms.

Way too dark.

I have mixed feelings about Arya killing the Night King especially after hearing what D&D said about it. It was a fantastically set scene, but they wanted to NOT let Jon do it because that would be expected. Subversion of expectations sometimes works, but it felt a little contrived to me and now I know why. 

The whole crypt scene was interesting and tense. I know some have said it was dumb to put the women and children there, but even with the mummies being reanimated, it was still safer than above. 

1 hour ago, BooBear said:

One thing I get from this episode is how little it seems Jon really cares about Dany. When she fell off her dragon, where was he? Jorah was over there watching out for her. Jon is like - Brannnnnnnn.  They are like work partners. I got more love this episode from Jamie and Brianne, Hound and Arya, and Sansa and Tyrion than the main couple.  Notice there was no final kiss before the fight? Not feeling the epic love. 

Jon and Dany dealing with utter chaos in the middle of battle against a supernatural threat, and Jon trying desperately to get to Bran and to kill the Night King to hopefully end the slaughter, but that means Jon doesn’t care for Dany because he didn’t go running when she fell off her dragon? Jorah was right there, and it was his duty and honor to defend Daenerys (and otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten that beautiful Jorah death scene). I guess Jon doesn’t care for Sam because he didn’t save him in the courtyard either. Look, I get that not everyone ships Jon/Dany but under the circumstances, especially with the shocking revelation of the previous episode that neither had a chance to digest before the onslaught, it seems like they both had more important things to deal with smooching before they go into battle. 

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, AnnaL said:

D&D could have given this to Arya and not Jon but they could still have given Jon some meat, maybe not killing the NK but striking Viseryon and killing him. That would have given Jon something. They had him up against the wall being unable to get to Bran and then for his ending scene they had him screaming at an ice dragon. Not their best thinking, they did Jon Snow wrong and I am not surprised that Kit didn't like that part at all. I would be fuming. 

The NK had Viseryon pinning down the threat, Jon.  The man with a Valyrian sword.  The steel that Joran had was pinned in the field.  Jaime and Brienne were pinned on the wall with the swords from Ice.  He felt invincible. He was over confident.

I believe Bran went to his happy place to watch for Arya.  When he ‘saw’ her in position he came back.  Theon died and the NK advanced.  It wasn’t until the last second that the NK recognized that Bran knew something he didn’t.  

I like it.

[AnnaL]

8 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I noticed that Rhaegal and Drogon was sniping at each other at the beginning of the battle. 

It's when Jon gets off of Rhaegal and joins Dany at the top of a hill overlooking the battle. 

It looks like the children have picked up that the parents are fighting and have taken sides. 

LOL, I hope not because then Jon is screwed 

These dragons are almost the alter egos of their name sakes. 

Viseryon for her brother, the one who sold her, the one who turned mad, it is not a surprised he was turned into an ice dragon who fights against Dany. 

Rhaegon for her older brother and Jon's father. He was never much of a fighter, he was melancholic and also a book worm. He loved to read about prophesies and history but only learned how to swing a sword upon reading in a book that he or one of his children might be the PTWP. He was charismatic and the small folk loved that he could play the harp. He is much smaller than Dragon as well. 

Dragon for her husband. Drogon was a mighty warrior. He was a sight to be hold. He was brutal but he also loved Dany with passion. Drogon, ,much live Jorah, will die before letting anything happen to Dany, he will protect her with his life. He is big and strong and seem to have a very deep connection to Dany. 

In a battle between Rhaegon and Dragon, my money is on Drogon.

[AnnaL]

7 hours ago, voiceover said:

(apparently I've spent the past 48 hours posting in the wrong thread. *clears throat* So here I am in the "no book" place, to honor Theon and his portrayer, Alfie Allen)

This show has birthed some fascinating character arcs (all the Stark children, for example), and a few -- even more compelling -- redemption arcs: Jaime. The Hound. Theon Greyjoy.

But of those three men (and now I love them all; *hated them in the early going), only Theon has had both an emotional/moral/spiritual redemption, and a physical one.

Jaime was always attractive (See my Ep 1 ref to his current facial hair...I believe the post included the phrase "want to lick it off"); Clegane was always ugly.

But Theon went from this:

-- rat-like, resentful, whingeing, wretched, broken, terrified, resigned --

to this:

-- bathed in the golden light of the True Hero: self-sacrificing, humbled, grateful, loving.

And finally: handsome.

Standing O, Alfie.  I bought it all, and I mourned your death more than any one since Ned's.

Theon, OMG

I never thought I could hate someone so much at the beginning of the series and end crying about his sacrifice so much.  Alfie Allen is such an excellent actor, he has given us cocky Theon, insecure Theon, tortured Theon, redeemed Theon. 

Were some other actors have had to stay on the one note act, Alfie has given the performance of a life time. I wish her the best acting career and from now on I will be looking forward towards any of his performances. His face at the end, the tear in his eyes, it was just pure acting perfection. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by AnnaL
Edit correct name