LadyPenelope

I’m pretty sure only Cersei went with him, because Tywin was plotting to marry her to Rhaegar. That’s why she convinced Jaime to join the Kingsguard, so he would be in KL too. But Tywin was so furious over it that he quit his job as Hand and took Cersei back to Casterly Rock, leaving Jaime alone there where he remained until the end of the war. Regardless, pretty sure Tyrion was mainly at the Rock. That little pedantry is all I have to say about the episode really. It was very meh. The only scenes that made me feel anything were Tyrion in the rubble, and Brienne writing in the Kingsguard book*. Which is a shame, as Dany dying should have been hugely emotional but felt lacking, maybe due to the acting or the utter lack of chemistry between her and Jon. One thing I found odd was the lack of any future to the current set-up. They are all childless, with little prospect of having children. What will happen when the current group is dead? It just seems like Westeros will be plunged back into war. Even if they plan on voting for the new kings, how long before that turns into a Vatican-esque game of threats and bribes and alliances? *Potentially my favourite scene - I thought that was a great testament to her sense of honour and fairness. I liked the twist to her mouth as she wrote the final line that Jaime “died protecting his queen” - that more than any of the rest of it captured his life and who he was. I’m going to miss Jaime Lannister, the ridiculous idiot.

I am okay with this season too. The plot is a bit rushed and there are a few things I would have done differently, but overall I like it. At the end of the day, the story doesn’t belong to me. If I want something to end exactly how I choose, I will write it myself. ...Of course, my favourite characters got exactly the ending I would have chosen, so it’s easy for me to say.

Cersei was left with no options but to blow up the sept or die. I feel sorry for Loras and Margaery, who were basically prisoners there, but the majority of those people were just there for the satisfaction of seeing the queen put on trial and executed. And, importantly, not for any of her actual crimes, but for having sex outside of marriage. So fuck ‘em all, they deserved to burn. Much like when Dany burned the khals - they wanted her dead for no reason but misogyny so it’s really hard to care. Dany’s more recent pyrotechnics were, I think, an expression of her grief and her rage that the people of King’s Landing were treating her like an invader rather than a liberator. I get it. It’s a shame, but I think her capacity for vengeance has been repeatedly foreshadowed. I don’t, however, think either of them are mad, or enjoy hurting people just for the sake of it. Ramsay Bolton was a psychopath who enjoyed pain for pain’s sake; Cersei and Dany are just ruthless, unyielding and vengeful. As were many men before then who never got called crazy. On a separate note, I loved the shot of Drogon coming out of the darkness and thought it foreshadowed Dany’s actions well - we have been conditioned to love the dragons and cheer them on but in that moment we were reminded of what they really were - terrifying and dangerous.

I hate to be this asshole, but I loved Jaime and Cersei’s deaths. They really are the show’s fucked up OTP and I love that/them. I also loved that this episode was filmed like the Lannisters were the heroes, with the camera cutting from Tyrion’s horror to Jaime desperately trying to make it to Cersei’s side to Cersei watching the city burn as she cried. I was anti-mad Dany but fuck it - I’m 100% here for the tragic tale of the Lannister kids. I hope Jaime is drinking wine with two hands in one of the seven heavens, laughing at the idea he needed redeeming for spending his entire life unflinchingly loyal to the woman he loved. In conclusion, S8 is GoT fan fiction as written by Jaime Lannister and I am all in.

Cersei has already been tortured, imprisoned, publicly humiliated, and watched everyone she loves die or abandon her. She has suffered. I’m sort of coming around to some of these spoilers. I especially like the idea of Arya being distracted from her list by trying to help people in KL. Having her choose life over death is the only way I can see her having any future that isn’t just ‘dead eyed vigilante’. It seems like a lot of the characters are being given endings that are ‘bittersweet’. Jorah died, but he died protecting Dany. Theon died as a Stark, having received absolution from Bran. If these spoilers are accurate, the Hound will go out destroying his brother, Jaime gets a hero moment before dying in the arms of the woman he loves as promised, Jon will be free in the North with Ghost by his side. The only person who is utterly fucked over is Dany.

I think in an ideal world this entire season would have built up to the NK, with time for Jon and Dany to build their relationship, Sansa to make an effort with Dany only to realise that she was never going to agree to Northern independence, Arya to attempt to be a lady of Winterfell then to decide it wasn’t who she was, Jaime to try to be a real boy and have a normal relationship before realising that it wasn’t who he was, Theon and Sansa to spend more time together, etc, etc. Then next season could deal with the aftermath and give Dany more time to lose everything and become gradually more ruthless and frightening.

I completely agree with you on both points. Brienne is a romantic, she loved Renly and knew she would never be with him, and she has loved Jaime for years. Then, just when she had let herself be vulnerable and started to believe he loved her and had chosen her, he abandoned her and went off to die. Of course she was devastated - that’s just being human. Nobody criticises Dany for crying over Jorah. Showing emotion isn’t weakness. And I would have been fine with Sam’s fear if he had accepted that he wasn’t a soldier, and gone to the crypts. But he insisted on fighting, was offended at the thought that he not be on the front line, and then got people killed by falling apart. It also seemed out of character for a self-professed coward not to realise that he wouldn’t be of use.

I don’t think Jaime is heading off to enact bloody vengeance to protect Brienne. He didn’t seem to have much of a reaction to Bronn coming to kill them, until his face changed when Bronn said that obviously Cersei was going to die. Later he has the same reaction when Sansa talked about Cersei being executed. If they wanted him to be going off to kill Cersei, all they needed was to change Sansa’s last line to ‘Dany’s lost another dragon and Missandei and now Cersei might win!’ and have Jaime look grim and determined. But instead she said it as evidence that Cersei will definitely die, and Jaime looked stricken. I don’t think he’s off to fight for her, or to try to save her. Maybe he will kill her, if she is doing something terrible when he arrived. But I think he is simply doing exactly what Brienne said - going to die with her.

Lena Headey and Emilia Clarke were both excellent this episode. I loved the scene where Cersei told Euron about her pregnancy - every time he was looking at her face she was smiling, and every time he looked away her face fell. Her reaction during Tyrion’s speech was also a lovely piece of acting. And Dany’s facial expressions over Jorah, and then Rhaegal and Missandei, were heartbreaking.

Well, Jaime and Brienne sleeping together was revolting. As is the set up for Dany to turn into the next Mad Queen. I’m not sure if I am supposed to be rooting against her as she watches everyone she loves die and finds herself alone with all her advisors turning against her, but at this point I hope she burns them all.

I’m trying not to be too much of a brat about it, but I will definitely be deciding whether or not to bother watching based on reading an episode synopsis first. This may be the point I give up on the show and wait for the (ghost written, after GRRM’s death) books.

I think the only person Tyrion would betray Dany/the Starks for is Jaime - might fit with the spoilers about Jaime being taken hostage and Tyrion freeing him?

I think Margaery, and Sansa herself, would both have played it differently - if they had the relevant information. From Sansa’s perspective, her dad is suddenly being awful and forbidding her to be with the boy she loves - which is a classic romance trope. In another story, in another world, Sansa would be the romantic heroine. Thinking about how other characters would react reminds me that Cersei at the same age has a similar moment of defiance when she pulls strings to get Jaime onto the Kingsguard behind Tywin’s back. Similarly with Lysa. Arya repeatedly goes against what her parents ask her to do because she doesn’t want to play the role she is supposed to, Really, apart from Cat, most of them have moments of parental defiance - Sansa’s just happens to end in tragedy.

No offence taken - it’s just a tv show. 😂 Sure, as I said - the consequences turned out to be severe. A lot of people had a role to play in Ned’s death - if Jon Arryn hadn’t died (Littlefinger), if Bran hadn’t been pushed from the tower (Jaime), if an assassin hadn’t been sent to kill him (Joffrey), if Tyrion hadn’t been arrested (Cat), if Ned had agreed to work with Cersei or Renly, if Renly hadn’t then abandoned him, etc, etc. Sansa played her part, and was punished disproportionately for it. I still think what she did was understandable given her upbringing and the fact that she was left in the dark about why they had to leave KL. She made a mistake, she suffered for it, but I don’t think that one moment completely defines her as a character.

I like Book Sansa, and I don’t mind Show Sansa, but neither is my favourite. However, I don’t think this is a fair reading. She was a sheltered, naive, and yes, silly, little girl. She made a stupid decision, but I hardly think it was that shocking - she trusted Cersei and loved Joffrey, and she was a child. Dany has been on the run for her whole life, while Sansa has been coddled and taught to be gentle and trusting and ladylike. Robb might only be two years older, but I would say that his youthful mistakes were much more costly. Sansa made (IMO understandable) mistakes. She played a small part in Ned’s death, and suffered terribly for it. That doesn’t make her an evil, irredeemable bitch - it makes her human. ETA: I also wanted to add that the male Starks were treated like men, from the beginning. Even Bran had to go and watch an execution and learn about how to be a lord. Sansa was not given any information. If Ned had told her anything about why he wanted to leave, that she couldn’t trust Cersei and why, etc., she might have listened. But she was treated like a child, so she behaved like a child.