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S06.E13: Be Free

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On 7/30/2018 at 10:26 AM, Ray Adverb said:

I was using the plural version of "you", since 2 different people have made claims that Badison was speaking in a non-existent accent which I've clearly seen does exist.  English doesn't have good words to differentiate singular and plural "you".  That was the clearest way I could think to do it.

That criticism makes sense.  Not like "she is speaking in a way which no person anywhere has ever spoken".  I personally didn't notice any discrepancies but I like the character.

Sure we do.  We use it here in Texas anytime we are referring to 2 or more people.  "Y'all". :D

On 7/31/2018 at 2:49 AM, Armchair Critic said:

Why does the charisma free Daya keep getting major storylines and people falling in love with her? 

The awful Badison also got too much air time and unfortunately will be back next season.

I don't get the Daya thing, either. The guard from the first season was all about her from the start and acted like she was so colossal beauty.  Daddy (good grief, who thought up that name?) was also talking about how hot she is. I just don't see it.  

On 7/31/2018 at 5:47 PM, Chaos Theory said:

It’s funny I feel about Taystee the way a lot  of people feel about Piper.  Except Piper gets called on her Narcissism every time she opens her mouth or wants something.  Taystee started a riot and we are supposed to feel bad that their are unintended consequences?   I don’t think Taystee works at all as an innocent victim of an unfair justice system. 

I didn't find myself feeling all that sorry for Taystee, either.  Make no mistake. It absolutely sucks that she was convicted of a murder that she didn't commit.  Last season, though, she burned her bridge with me with MCC was willing to give her every single thing she asked for except arresting the officer for Poussay's murder.  It wasn't murder.  Everytime she calls it murder, I get annoyed.  It as a terrible, horrible accident.  Murder has to have intent.  There was no intent.  Plus, it isn't up to MCC to charge anybody with anything.  That's on the DA.  The District Attorney has to review the case and determine what, if anything, to charge him with.  MCC had no control over that.  But she got all high and mighty and refused to accept the terms. She as told that if she didn't accept it, it wasn't going to be offered again.  It was what everyone in the prison wanted, but she was selfish and only looking out for the one thing she wanted.  She refused the terms, the riot continued, then the feds came in and we all know what happened next.  Is she a murder?  No.  But neither was the guard.  Then, this season, the public defender told her she didn't have a case.  Taystee, though, thought she was smarter than the public defender.  The public defender explained everything regarding why it was clear Taystee didn't have a case including that there were eye witnesses who were going to point the finger at Taystee.  But Taystee refused to listen and went to trial.  Now she is in federal prison for the rest of her life. Or maybe she is getting the death penalty.  I don't know.  I do know it isn't good and it all could have been avoided by her if she had just once listened to someone more informed on the subject she might not be in this terrible situation paying for a crime that she didn't commit.

 

Madison is the worst.  At least Vee had parts of her that were interesting.  Evil to the extreme with not a lick of goodness in here, but still interesting.  Madison (I refuse to use that stupid nickname) is just ridiculous. I can't imagine she scored well with test audiences.  I'm hoping she is killed off early in the first episode of season 7.

Also, when they first showed Barbara and Carol lying on the ground, did anyone else think it was going to be Freida who did them both in?  I admit, I was a little disappointed that it wasn't.  Hoping that when Red gets out of SHU, she is put in Florida.  I'd like to see how she and Freida get along from here. Red pissed me off going at Frieda instead of seeing her grandkids. She's my favorite character and when she did that, I probably got more irritated than is rational.

Hands down, the saddest part for me was Diablo standing there with flowers waiting for Blanca.  I so wanted those two to have a happy reunion and go off together to make lots of babies.

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5 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

The guard from the first season was all about her from the start and acted like she was so colossal beauty.  Daddy (good grief, who thought up that name?) was also talking about how hot she is. I just don't see it.  

She's nice looking and looked really good in the flashback with regular clothes. She always struck me as kind of dumb, so I think she attracts people who have that "want to take care of you" thing going on. Daddy (I mean, come on) looked to be that kind of person in her flashbacks. 

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Just finished it. I HATE Badison. Hate her. And not in a fun way, just in the way where I want her to be the one that dies and was so disappointed she didn't. God, that horrible voice! 

Of the new inmates, I enjoyed Carol and Barb as the season villains, and I like the way their story wrapped up. They also did a great job on casting young/old versions of them- I thought that was amusing.

I also liked Daddy a lot. If we're going to have to see more of these new people, please let it be her and not Badison, for the love of god. Although, I can already tell what's going to happen- it's likely Alex vs Madison next season, I'm sure.

I'm glad Piper's finally out of prison, it was starting to bother me how her 13 month sentence had somehow stretched into years, even though I know they basically threw out the timeline. I know they're going to follow her on the outside though. I'm expecting the next season to probably be a little more like Season 1, with more Piper focus, since they haven't followed anyone else on the outside that much (Aleida's been the only one, but that's a subplot- Piper will have a lot more screentime). I don't know how realistic it is that she'd end up waiting for Alex all those years though. 

I think what should happen is that she can use her memoir to publicize what happened and try to bring justice for Taystee. 

It's way past time to get rid of Daya. I can't believe they've kept her around this long. She's not likable or interesting, and at this point I think they should just end her story in tragedy and have her overdose. I thought her S1/S2 story with Bennett was good, but ever since then it's just been nothing. 

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12 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I didn't find myself feeling all that sorry for Tasha, either.  Make no mistake. It absolutely sucks that she was convicted of a murder that she didn't commit.  Last season, though, she burned her bridge with me with MCC was willing to give her every single thing she asked for except arresting the officer for Poussay's murder.  It wasn't murder.  Everytime she calls it murder, I get annoyed.  It as a terrible, horrible accident.  Murder has to have intent.  There was no intent.  Plus, it isn't up to MCC to charge anybody with anything.  That's on the DA.  The District Attorney has to review the case and determine what, if anything, to charge him with.  MCC had no control over that.  But she got all high and mighty and refused to accept the terms. She as told that if she didn't accept it, it wasn't going to be offered again.  It was what everyone in the prison wanted, but she was selfish and only looking out for the one thing she wanted.  She refused the terms, the riot continued, then the feds came in and we all know what happened next.  Is she a murder?  No.  But neither was the guard.

If this was just the character, I could roll with it.  TV characters don't always have to be likable or sympathetic.  But it feels like the writers are trying to set her up as a folk hero and an innocent person railroaded by the justice system at every turn.  Like the viewers are supposed to be on her side.  We are supposed to agree that she was right to demand the guard be prosecuted for Poussey Washington's death.  Like we are supposed to believe she was right when she used hostages to demand this.  I would be far less annoyed if a few characters in the show would hold her accountable for her tasks.  Caputo was the only one who even tried.

 

Why were those spectators in the court room so convinced of her innocence?  The state had a strong case.  The only way we as viewers know that she was framed is because we have the benefit of knowledge they didn't; we saw to SWAT team set up the frame job.  The Department of Justice has every reason to believe that she killed the guard.  They are not the bad guys.  They were, quite simply, tricked. 
 

Quote

 

Then, this season, the public defender told her she didn't have a case.  Tasha, though, thought she was smarter than the public defender.  The public defender explained everything regarding why it was clear Tasha didn't have a case including that there were eye witnesses who were going to point the finger at Tasha.  But Tasha refused to listen and went to trial.  Now she is in federal prison for the rest of her life. Or maybe she is getting the death penalty.  I don't know.  I do know it isn't good and it all could have been avoided by her if she had just once listened to someone more informed on the subject she might not be in this terrible situation paying for a crime that she didn't commit.

 

Tasha Jefferson is likely going to be sentenced to death.  Dayanara Diaz took a plea for life.  Tasha went to trial, so she's not going to get off that easily.  You are correct though that she will spend the rest of her life in prison.  That will just be fewer years than Dayanara.

 

As much as I hate Tasha, I can't blame her for fighting the case.  She knew she was innocent and thought she had a chance.  It was worth a chance and she didn't have a lot to lose.  Even her better, paid for lawyer, didn't have much of a case.  It seemed to hang on character witnesses and seemed to border on jury nullification if you ask me..

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2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Just finished it. I HATE Badison. Hate her. And not in a fun way, just in the way where I want her to be the one that dies and was so disappointed she didn't. God, that horrible voice! 

Of the new inmates, I enjoyed Carol and Barb as the season villains, and I like the way their story wrapped up. They also did a great job on casting young/old versions of them- I thought that was amusing.

I also liked Daddy a lot. If we're going to have to see more of these new people, please let it be her and not Badison, for the love of god. Although, I can already tell what's going to happen- it's likely Alex vs Madison next season, I'm sure.

I'm glad Piper's finally out of prison, it was starting to bother me how her 13 month sentence had somehow stretched into years, even though I know they basically threw out the timeline. I know they're going to follow her on the outside though. I'm expecting the next season to probably be a little more like Season 1, with more Piper focus, since they haven't followed anyone else on the outside that much (Aleida's been the only one, but that's a subplot- Piper will have a lot more screentime). I don't know how realistic it is that she'd end up waiting for Alex all those years though. 

I think what should happen is that she can use her memoir to publicize what happened and try to bring justice for Taystee. 

It's way past time to get rid of Daya. I can't believe they've kept her around this long. She's not likable or interesting, and at this point I think they should just end her story in tragedy and have her overdose. I thought her S1/S2 story with Bennett was good, but ever since then it's just been nothing. 

I am betting we will see Piper being just as annoying but crusading for whatever on the outside.  Unfortunately, I think it is likely I will agree with her cause and still end up completely annoyed because she is just an annoying character.  I also think there is zero chance she stays true to Alex. She is one of those people who always has to have someone.  Needy, whiny, and clingy, she can't be expected to go through life without a partner at her side. She'll end up cheating.  At least, if they stay true to her character, she'll end up cheating.

1 hour ago, Ray Adverb said:

If this was just the character, I could roll with it.  TV characters don't always have to be likable or sympathetic.  But it feels like the writers are trying to set her up as a folk hero and an innocent person railroaded by the justice system at every turn.  Like the viewers are supposed to be on her side.  We are supposed to agree that she was right to demand the guard be prosecuted for Poussey Washington's death.  Like we are supposed to believe she was right when she used hostages to demand this.  I would be far less annoyed if a few characters in the show would hold her accountable for her tasks.  Caputo was the only one who even tried.

 

Why were those spectators in the court room so convinced of her innocence?  The state had a strong case.  The only way we as viewers know that she was framed is because we have the benefit of knowledge they didn't; we saw to SWAT team set up the frame job.  The Department of Justice has every reason to believe that she killed the guard.  They are not the bad guys.  They were, quite simply, tricked. 

Yes!  I agree to everything here.

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3 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

We are supposed to agree that she was right to demand the guard be prosecuted for Poussey Washington's death.  Like we are supposed to believe she was right when she used hostages to demand this.  I would be far less annoyed if a few characters in the show would hold her accountable for her tasks.  Caputo was the only one who even tried.

Are we though? The show did have Caputo call her out this season. 

3 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

Why were those spectators in the court room so convinced of her innocence? 

They did make a point to underscore that the independent medical examiner's report contradicted the 'official' one. If I were following the case that would seem like enough doubt for me not to vote guilty on this one. The lawyer flat out said the jury would ignore the report, so she may have been on tv explaining the case. I got the impression from all the mail and all the people showing up that this was in the news a lot, so with a 24 hour cycle, they're going to dig into it a lot. I hope they appeal the case because I want the set up to come out. 

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21 hours ago, Ray Adverb said:

If this was just the character, I could roll with it.  TV characters don't always have to be likable or sympathetic.  But it feels like the writers are trying to set her up as a folk hero and an innocent person railroaded by the justice system at every turn.  Like the viewers are supposed to be on her side.  We are supposed to agree that she was right to demand the guard be prosecuted for Poussey Washington's death.  Like we are supposed to believe she was right when she used hostages to demand this.  I would be far less annoyed if a few characters in the show would hold her accountable for her tasks.  Caputo was the only one who even tried.

 

Why were those spectators in the court room so convinced of her innocence?  The state had a strong case.  The only way we as viewers know that she was framed is because we have the benefit of knowledge they didn't; we saw to SWAT team set up the frame job.  The Department of Justice has every reason to believe that she killed the guard.  They are not the bad guys.  They were, quite simply, tricked. 
 

Tasha Jefferson is likely going to be sentenced to death.  Dayanara Diaz took a plea for life.  Tasha went to trial, so she's not going to get off that easily.  You are correct though that she will spend the rest of her life in prison.  That will just be fewer years than Dayanara.

 

As much as I hate Tasha, I can't blame her for fighting the case.  She knew she was innocent and thought she had a chance.  It was worth a chance and she didn't have a lot to lose.  Even her better, paid for lawyer, didn't have much of a case.  It seemed to hang on character witnesses and seemed to border on jury nullification if you ask me..

Wasn’t she convicted of 2nd degree murder? I don’t think that she can get the death penalty. 

How can she get the death penalty anyway since NY doesn’t have it?

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3 hours ago, Bubbles1967 said:

Wasn’t she convicted of 2nd degree murder? I don’t think that she can get the death penalty. 

How can she get the death penalty anyway since NY doesn’t have it?

I'm not sure about the exact charge she was convicted of, but there's no way the state is going to offer a plea of a life sentence and not make the consequences for a trial worse.

 

New York doesn't have death penalty, but this is a federal case.  Federal system does.

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Also, I don't know how anyone can be so twisted that they think Piper's crime of carrying some drug money through customs is somehow worse than Tasha's crime of inciting a riot and taking hostages to blackmail authorities into sending an innocent man to prison.

Why all the defense of Bayley? Whether he meant to or not, he killed Poussey. It is up to every person to make sure that when you are defending yourself against someone, you aren’t *also* accidentally simultaneously crushing someone else to death. I don’t think Taystee was holding out for a first degree murder charge; she just wanted it acknowledged and him to be held accountable in some way. Bayley himself wanted to be held accountable!

agree that her idealism has been her downfall- thinking she could keep negotiating, thinking she could take her case to trial. These mistakes that led to her tragic ending are based on some hope in humanity that she has gradually been losing. Taystee to me remains the most relatable character (at least since Poussey’s death). I loved seeing the backstory between her and her guard friend. 

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On 2018-08-12 at 6:19 PM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

 But Taystee refused to listen and went to trial.  Now she is in federal prison for the rest of her life. Or maybe she is getting the death penalty.  I don't know.  I do know it isn't good and it all could have been avoided by her if she had just once listened to someone more informed on the subject she might not be in this terrible situation paying for a crime that she didn't commit.

Also, when they first showed Barbara and Carol lying on the ground, did anyone else think it was going to be Freida who did them both in?  I admit, I was a little disappointed that it wasn't.  Hoping that when Red gets out of SHU, she is put in Florida.  I'd like to see how she and Freida get along from here. Red pissed me off going at Frieda instead of seeing her grandkids. She's my favorite character and when she did that, I probably got more irritated than is rational.

Hands down, the saddest part for me was Diablo standing there with flowers waiting for Blanca.  I so wanted those two to have a happy reunion and go off together to make lots of babies.

I love Freida! It would have been fitting if it had been her, although I don't want to see an added sentence for my favourite character. I don't know how Red would end up back in Florida but I am definitely looking forward to seeing the two of them dealing with this sometime in the future.

On 2018-08-13 at 7:22 AM, Ray Adverb said:

If this was just the character, I could roll with it.  TV characters don't always have to be likable or sympathetic.  But it feels like the writers are trying to set her up as a folk hero and an innocent person railroaded by the justice system at every turn.  Like the viewers are supposed to be on her side.  We are supposed to agree that she was right to demand the guard be prosecuted for Poussey Washington's death.  Like we are supposed to believe she was right when she used hostages to demand this.  I would be far less annoyed if a few characters in the show would hold her accountable for her tasks.  Caputo was the only one who even tried.

Tasha Jefferson is likely going to be sentenced to death.  Dayanara Diaz took a plea for life.  Tasha went to trial, so she's not going to get off that easily.  You are correct though that she will spend the rest of her life in prison.  That will just be fewer years than Dayanara.

As much as I hate Tasha, I can't blame her for fighting the case.  She knew she was innocent and thought she had a chance.  It was worth a chance and she didn't have a lot to lose.  Even her better, paid for lawyer, didn't have much of a case.  It seemed to hang on character witnesses and seemed to border on jury nullification if you ask me..

It wasn't clear to me either, whether she would be sentenced to death. Normally I think she would reappear in court for the official sentencing. I do know that it's life, not a death sentence, strictly from having read a few interviews with the showrunner and cast.

On 2018-08-13 at 8:29 AM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I am betting we will see Piper being just as annoying but crusading for whatever on the outside.  Unfortunately, I think it is likely I will agree with her cause and still end up completely annoyed because she is just an annoying character.  I also think there is zero chance she stays true to Alex. She is one of those people who always has to have someone.  Needy, whiny, and clingy, she can't be expected to go through life without a partner at her side. She'll end up cheating.  At least, if they stay true to her character, she'll end up cheating.

Yes!  I agree to everything here.

I usually find Piper annoying too, and not a bit boring, but she has her moments. I think of them like Captain Kirk monologues - or Kyle/Stan in South Park or Jeff in Community - inspirational speeches meant to unify the group and find the moral of the story. Usually Piper is mocked but occasionally, it works. I think the kickball speech actually worked. Definitely think it's going to be useful in her future call for prison reform. Can totally picture Piper showing up on celebrity news shows like The View and The Talk, especially once she writes that memoir and publishes it. 

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On 8/12/2018 at 5:19 PM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Sure we do.  We use it here in Texas anytime we are referring to 2 or more people.  "Y'all". :D

 

In Chicago, we have "you guys."

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Taystee will no doubt have an appeal. Maybe Caputo can testify in person/uncover more info in the meantime, or Fig could learn something and blow up the company she already has contempt for. And the guy who punched him showed up at sentencing for a reason. Conscience? 

Can Piper even visit Alex? Does early release mean no parole? I would assume felons aren't able to just start hanging out at their former prison on visiting day after release (though maybe there are immediate family exceptions like Aleida?)

54 yr old greater Bostonian (10 yrs in actual city) - it was bad, inauthentic, and inconsistent. We know what they were going for - CT prison, makes sense to have some classic Boston low lives represented. I did think the actress and character as written were interesting. She was SUPPOSED to be ineffectual and lame. They were consistent that she never fit in and was always trying to ingratiate herself with horrible people by lashing out. Classic sociopath, the perfect recruit for mobsters like Carol who need enforcers. A little attention yields ferocious loyalty, but they're never trusted and ultimately disposable. They die violently or end up ratting out the people above them.

In a power vacuum next season i imagine she'll make a play against Alex and everybody on the block will pretty much act like they did when selecting kickball coach. Like she doesn't exist.

Edited by kassa
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On 7/27/2018 at 8:54 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Although better then the previous two seasons Season 6 of OITNB still suffers because it makes all the guards either evil or stupid while most of the inmates either violent or victims. There is very little middle ground or nuance.  The end to Taystee's trial was predictable.  It was so predictable that I could't even feel that bad for her.     

I know Piper is a divisive character but if she is gone for good I think I might be too.  Except for season one which I found to be exceptionally entertaining this show has been average at best.  It got waaaaay to political in the last couple of seasons.  I liked everyone going to Max and even Ad Seg.  However Piper has always been my gateway to the show.  I like everyone else but she is the character I have the most attachment to.  

If she is gone so am I.  

So weird.  I've always seen her as one of the more annoying and least interesting of the characters.

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On 8/5/2018 at 4:28 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

 the character Daya is.. so.. nothing that I’m always confused with people falling all over her. I don’t get it either. I think the writers just don’t know what to do with her at this point? She’s.. just kind of there for the most part.

I'm going to go as far as to say I've always found her kind of gross.  So, yeah...I don't get it, either.

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12 minutes ago, stan4 said:

I'm going to go as far as to say I've always found her kind of gross.  So, yeah...I don't get it, either.

I think the actress herself is pretty and I’ve seen her in interviews and she seems nice enough and more charismatic then she ever does as Daya. But Daya just adds nothing to the show and somehow ends up being a central part in the seasons arc a lot of the time.

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On 8/10/2018 at 9:18 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Wouldn't there also be the thing where Tastee committed a felony and that lead to someones death so it is considered murder. I'm no !awyer but is the link between her inciting the riot and Piscatella getting killed enough for her to be guilty of murder?

Felony Murder:  A rule that allows a killing that occurs in the course of a dangerous felony, even an accidental death, to be charged against the felon as first-degree murder.

3 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I think the actress herself is pretty and I’ve seen her in interviews and she seems nice enough and more charismatic then she ever does as Daya. But Daya just adds nothing to the show and somehow ends up being a central part in the seasons arc a lot of the time.

I don't know about the actress (I'm sure all the folks in the show look better when they aren't dressed up and coiffed like jailbirds), but the character in this case always skeeved me out.  Kinda dumb, too naive, not particularly good-looking as to incite so much lust, etc.

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On 8/19/2018 at 2:57 AM, kassa said:

 

54 yr old greater Bostonian (10 yrs in actual city) - it was bad, inauthentic, and inconsistent. We know what they were going for - CT prison, makes sense to have some classic Boston low lives represented. I did think the actress and character as written were interesting. She was SUPPOSED to be ineffectual and lame. They were consistent that she never fit in and was always trying to ingratiate herself with horrible people by lashing out. Classic sociopath, the perfect recruit for mobsters like Carol who need enforcers. A little attention yields ferocious loyalty, but they're never trusted and ultimately disposable. They die violently or end up ratting out the people above them.

 

Suburban New England chick here...I deliberately pronounce my "r's" b/c the accent sounds harsh to me (hahsh!  LOL)

Madison...goes in & out...like we pronounce the "r' in "first" but not in "car" or "Saturday" and someone said it was too languid...exactly.  IMHO we rival New Yorkers for the rapid-fire talking

She's a typical bully...hurt people hurt people.  I fucking hate her.

Never change, Aleida.  Daya's on drugs?  Fuck it, I gotta do me!

I liked Season 1 Piper when she was kind of the "eyes & ears" of the audience, like what would happen if your average suburban white girl was suddenly imprisoned, but they went off the rails with her.  It's funny that IRL she did a year & then married Larry.

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1 hour ago, teapot said:

IMHO we rival New Yorkers for the rapid-fire talking

That's the thing that got me. She should be a verbal barrage to the point where she's nearly unintelligible. 

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I thought it was a stretch of artistic liberty that the moment Taystee's verdict was read, they put handcuffs on her and led her out of the courtroom. There are far too many true crime shows on TV to get away with that kind of dramatic license. Haven't they ever seen Dateline before? 

Overall I liked the way it ended but I agree with the consensus that Badison was an utter fail as a character, and I hope the show takes the temperature of its audience and responds accordingly in Season 7. I hated Vee too but at least they killed her off at the end of the season so I had something to cheer about. No such luck with Badison. 

A lot of the impact of this season was lost on me because I couldn't remember half of what went down in Season 5, like who actually started the riot or who did what to who or who was really guilty, etc. etc. That's the problem with shows that drop once a year, and especially when you have a fairly weak season like Season 5. There was no way I was going to go back and re-watch the whole thing to refresh my memory because it was a slog to get through it the first time around.

It's probably also why I did enjoy this season a bit more, just because last season was so bad. 

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Agreed.  Comparison makes six shine.

In fact, I dropped out of season five pretty close to the beginning and then just watched the last episode before season 6 started.  It was just so boring and tedious.  

Everyone who said bad stuff about Badison echoes my thoughts.  That is the kind of character I loathe - the rando psycho.  It's lazy and irritating.

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This season was pretty disappointing.

It seemed way too over the top to have Taystee convicted for Piscatella's murder. First of all a series of unrealistic events would have had to take place like falsifying the autopsy, and Cindy not speaking up even though she knew it was the only way she could possibly save someone who she'd been friends with for years (it also is the opposite of her plotline about becoming Jewish because Judaism is about taking personal responsibility and healing the world). Even if she was deemed an "unreliable witness," her original testimony would definitely screw Taystee over, so it would have been at least worth a try to tell the truth. It seemed like the writers put this plot in more to beat people over the head with a political agenda than anything else. Like yes, there is a lot of discrimination against minorities and a lot of corruption in the prison system, but there have been many more realistic ways that was shown like Poussey's death and Sophia's time in the SHU, and this plot just jumped the shark for me.

Conversely I did think Flores' plotline of being deported was a more realistic thing although they definitely would have told her beforehand if she was being deported IRL (actually it's usually part of someone's sentence).

Even though I hated Badison I did feel like she served a purpose in the plot and that she is a realistic example of someone who never progressed past being a middle school bully. However, I feel like her purpose in the show has been served.

I hate Aleida possibly even more than Badison, so I hated that they spent so much time on her plotline this season. She has zero redeeming qualities.

I also felt like Piper and Alex had little chemistry. Now that they don't have a passionate love-hate relationship anymore, there doesn't seem to be any good reason why they are together besides familiarity and not wanting to be alone in prison...perhaps that is the point?

Suzanne also is beginning to annoy me. Not only is she a one-dimensional character, but also nobody seems to acknowledge all the damage she caused. If it wasn't for her, several characters would be alive and several characters would have a lot less time on their sentences. Yet she still isn't in Psych where she belongs? How long before she causes another catastrophe?

I was one of the few people who didn't hate the Pennsatucky/Coates storyline. I don't think the writers were encouraging people to forgive their rapists, and I don't understand why people think that is the case. The whole point is that someone like Pennsatucky, who had the experiences of being raped before and being treated like dirt by most of the men in her life, realistically would continue dating her rapist and forgive him, because she was taught to accept such treatment. She learned self-respect over the course of the show but it took time for the lessons to really sink in. However I felt like they didn't give Pennsatucky enough to do after she got back to prison and I'm not sure where her character can go from here.

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Phew. With all Piper’s wistful staring, I was  afraid she was going to pull a Rose jumping back onto the Titanic and I was prepared to be infuriated.

 

Blanca and Diablo broke my heart. He’s so adorable, and with the flowers...

 

Poor Badison, no one has ever liked her or been impressed by her. Not her classmates, not her peers in the boot camp, not her fellow inmates, not the viewers. As much as I can’t stand looking at  or listening to her, I bet prison is full of her. Pain in the butt people who don’t know how to stfu and who make bad choices for stupid reasons. (I interpreted that fire incident as an accident. I thought she wanted to bully the other girl to try to fit in with the cool bad girls, but just wanted to spray her and make her roach spray joke. I don’t think she planned on setting her on fire.) Without Carol’s patronage, I’m sure she’ll be shoved to the side. I hope so. She’s the worst.

 

I know not everyone likes Taystee or her choices, but man, if she’d had even a nudge toward community college or job training... she’s smart and funny and has a good attitude... she could have held down a decent job if she’d known how to get there. What if her Vee figure had been a secretary or managed a grocery store instead of being a drug dealer? Someone who knew how to fill out a FAFSA and create a resume?

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I wonder if the Taystee plotline was inspired by Making a Murderer. The "thesis" of Making a Murderer (whether it's true or not) is that Steven Avery was wrongfully convicted for Teresa Halbach's murder with falsified evidence because he was bringing a bunch of lawsuits against the Manitowoc police for wrongfully convicting him the first time around. It's a Netflix series and so is OITNB. Of course Taystee's plotline also has the racial discrimination aspect.

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I really liked this season.  Madison was a drag but I think she is a realistic personality to include.  I found Carol and Barb very interesting.  I'm hoping that Piper has a smaller role next season.

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Piper makes me think of Natalie Jastrow from The Winds of War.  She was stubborn and reckless, and drove the story forward.  In contrast, Natalie Jastrow in the subsequent War and Remembrance was nicer and more likeable (and played by the very-easy-on-the-eyes Jane Seymour), but her character was much, much more passive.  

Piper also reminds me of my favorite character from my favorite show, namely Amy Gardner from The West Wing.  Then again, most fans of that show can't stand her.  

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It was a bittersweet end to a season I ended up liking a lot better than last season.  Piper and Alex's wedding scene was nicely done, and I thought Piper's reunion with her brother was moving.  I could see Taystee's verdict coming from a mile away.  I hope next season Caputo does some detective work to prove who the real killers were.  It will be interesting what goes down between Taystee and Cindy next season.  Taystee was the strongest character this season though and I looked forward to her scenes.  I didn't see Blanca's getting handed over to ICE coming.  That was pretty heartbreaking.   Lorna's baby is premature so that will bring some drama.  Glad kickball didn't turn into a massacre.  Hard to work out the logistics of the Barb/Carol death match.  Somehow Barb got one of Carol's shivs away from her and stabbed her in the back with it, then Carol turned around and sliced Barb's neck open?  Barb started that fight with a crappy razor blade on a stick while Carol had two menacing-looking daggers.  Daya was the only one I didn't care about (outside of Madison), that character has annoyed me since season one with her dead eyes, dull-witted personality, and lack of self-awareness.  Gloria should wash her hands of her once she gets out of the SHU.  I hope they ship Madison off to another prison next season.

Edited by Dobian
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I thought this season was a definite improvement on last season, but still hasn't quite reached the heights of older seasons. A lot of that is because, as other people have said, its just so depressing and bleak all of the time. I dont mind the show being dark, and this season still had some funny and sweet scenes (I would argue this season was more pleasant than last season, where almost everyone was an asshole), but it just feels like we are constantly close to getting something happy, and then it gets pulled away like Lucy and the football of false hope. People jyst making crappy choices, being stuck in an uncaring system, and everything just mostly sucking. And I missed having all the ladies around, I just didnt care about most of the new people. 

I did like Carol and Barb as antagonists, and that they wont be overstaying their welcome. They were sufficiently scary as befits leaders at a max prison (their backstory was legit one of the creepiest things this show has ever done) and I found their actors, both younger and older, to be compelling. 

On the other hand, Badison is the freaking WORST. I know that she is probably realistic to the people you would see in prison (a dumb thug who is petty and mean but by no means smart enough to be a master criminal) and I think she could have worked fine as a background character, but as one of the main new characters? No thank you. and her accent, realistic or not, is like nails on a freaking chalkboard. 

Piper can be annoying, but I think she is a basically well meaning person, and I thought her seeing her kickball game going well, and that the women ended up playing instead of killing each other (thanks to Maria on a redemption path) and her happy reaction was sweet, as was her seeing her brother and their big hug. Of course, that was killed instant;y when Blanca was handed ovr to ICE, complete with poor Diablo and his flowers and his happy, excited face becoming more confused as Blanca doesn't come out. Oh yeah, that hurt. 

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I also liked the verdict scene being sound dropped.  It gave you a chance to see the emotion on Taystee's face telling the whole story in concert with what most viewers expected the verdict to be.  In other words, we really didn't need to hear it.  The creative choice worked for me.

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So did Blanca not get the same type of 'exit' interview that Piper got?  Piper was told she was getting an early release, so what was Blanca told?  I think its inordinately cruel if Blanca was told she got an early release, but then MCC turned her over to ICE instead.  And Diablo doesn't know!  and he probably won't know until she's out of the country!  That's the worst.  

I for one am glad Barb and Carol did themselves in.  Frankly, they should have gotten the death penalty in the first place, imo.

I can't blame Aleida too much for writing off Daya so she could try and do better with her remaining children, once she gets custody of them again.  One can hope she'll get a real job then too.  There's only so much she can do to help Daya, which isn't much.

Its great that the kickball worked out and the women enjoyed it so much they decided to skip the shanking.

So what happened to Donuts?

I do hope that Tasha's story improved.  I agree that I didn't really get why Cindy didn't tell the truth to begin with, although I suppose she feared repercussions from the guards for blaming the stormtroopers.  Its a shame she didn't tell her lawyer everything at the beginning.  He probably could have helped.  And now both women are suffering, especially Tasha.

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Things I really thought were going to happen:

- Frieda knew that Carol and Barb were probably going to make a move while the cell blocks were empty and that's why she sent Suzanne away in order to protect her.

- After the event of the prison wedding and making plans for the future, Alex was going to get fatally stabbed and Piper might see it happen.

- Since the guards understandably don't trust Ruiz, I was afraid that they wouldn't believe her about what was going to happen at the game.

- There'd be a big cliffhanger as to whether Suzanne, Nicki, and the others we know were stabbed and/or survived.

SO glad to be completely wrong about everything—although Madison dying would have been fine with me! It was nice moment that Ruiz was able to, in a small way, redeem herself for her actions from the previous season. The only thing I hated about the ending was poor Blanca!

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Piper is one of (if not) the most annoying characters on the show so I hope that her release is permanent and we never have to see her again. I've said since S1 that I would gladly watch the stories of the other characters without Piper's presence.

One smaller thing I enjoyed in this episode was how Doggett has become friends with Suzanne to the point that when Frieda told Suzanne they weren't friends, Doggett immediately told Frieda to say she didn't mean it because she knew how much it would upset Suzanne.

It seems fitting that Carol and Barb killed each other. From a story point of view, that leaves a power vacuum for next season and hopefully frees Alex from getting sucked back into doing illegal shit. I really hope Badison doesn't try to take over because she is so immature and annoying.

Luschek and his DeLorean - I have no words.

Poor Blanca. I was so happy for her when she found out she was being released, partially because, unlike Piper, she had the good sense to WANT to leave prison. Of course Piper managed to get sad about early release. FFS.

Loved that Flaca knew all along what was upsetting Cindy.

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6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Piper is one of (if not) the most annoying characters on the show so I hope that her release is permanent and we never have to see her again. I've said since S1 that I would gladly watch the stories of the other characters without Piper's presence.

One smaller thing I enjoyed in this episode was how Doggett has become friends with Suzanne to the point that when Frieda told Suzanne they weren't friends, Doggett immediately told Frieda to say she didn't mean it because she knew how much it would upset Suzanne.

It seems fitting that Carol and Barb killed each other. From a story point of view, that leaves a power vacuum for next season and hopefully frees Alex from getting sucked back into doing illegal shit. I really hope Badison doesn't try to take over because she is so immature and annoying.

Luschek and his DeLorean - I have no words.

Poor Blanca. I was so happy for her when she found out she was being released, partially because, unlike Piper, she had the good sense to WANT to leave prison. Of course Piper managed to get sad about early release. FFS.

Loved that Flaca knew all along what was upsetting Cindy.

I liked the moment with Suzanne and Doggiet and Fredia too. I feel like sometimes too much suzanne is too much but sometimes they do okay. I loved when Doggit was like “what are we going to do without our best player?” And Suzanne was like “lose I guess?” And I like that they seemed to be building a friendship.

Also yeah I know this a prison drama but wasn’t part of its appeal that it was more dark comedy? I didn’t feel the need to struggle to find the light moments as much as I have these past seasons. 

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Late to the party, but I REALLY liked the ending of the series season. I am glad that they didn’t all kill each other on the kickball field, love that the sisters are dead and Freida is safe, I felt bad for Suzanne though and feel terrible for Lorna and the one being deported. Loved loved loved the prison wedding. More to follow after I read all of your awesome posts!

Edited by tvfanatic13 · Reason: ETA- I thought I read that it was cancelled but apparently not.
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On 8/14/2018 at 9:00 AM, betha said:

Why all the defense of Bayley? Whether he meant to or not, he killed Poussey. It is up to every person to make sure that when you are defending yourself against someone, you aren’t *also* accidentally simultaneously crushing someone else to death. I don’t think Taystee was holding out for a first degree murder charge; she just wanted it acknowledged and him to be held accountable in some way. Bayley himself wanted to be held accountable!

agree that her idealism has been her downfall- thinking she could keep negotiating, thinking she could take her case to trial. These mistakes that led to her tragic ending are based on some hope in humanity that she has gradually been losing. Taystee to me remains the most relatable character (at least since Poussey’s death). I loved seeing the backstory between her and her guard friend. 

Agree.

What happened to Taystee is really close to what happens to so many people trapped in the system. Not the riot part, that was TV, a means to show the reality. But the idealism, the deceptions and disappointments are too real, and they happen all the time, sometimes worse than what happened to her.

I have mixed feelings about this show. In one hand I think the writing is terrible, on the other hand I think some of the themes and how they are played out is really raw and real. On yet another hand, because I think I need another one to make my point, I feel frustrated to see real headlines played on the show. I read the news and then I see it on the show and that's a bit much sometimes. Just the sight of actors dressed as ICE made me queasy.

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So piper was in for about 13 months? In 13 months daya got pregnant and had a baby and Lorna got pregnant after and had a baby? Am I missing something?

what did end up happening to co baily? I thought for sure he was going to commit suicide but he just fell off the face of the earth?

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2 hours ago, Spicymustard said:

So piper was in for about 13 months? In 13 months daya got pregnant and had a baby and Lorna got pregnant after and had a baby? Am I missing something?

what did end up happening to co baily? I thought for sure he was going to commit suicide but he just fell off the face of the earth?

IIRC, 13 months was her original sentence. I believe she got some more time added on in an earlier season, plus some more for the riot. 

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18 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

IIRC, 13 months was her original sentence. I believe she got some more time added on in an earlier season, plus some more for the riot. 

Was it ever confirmed that she got added time from her trial in Chicago? I think Healy hand-waved more time for her from her beatdown of Pennsatucky, after the latter threatened to expose him for letting that happen.

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Just finished the season.  Can someone explain the relationship between Frieda and the sisters (who killed each other)?  I either missed it or forgot.  Thanks!

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On 12/7/2018 at 2:33 AM, Thumper said:

Just finished the season.  Can someone explain the relationship between Frieda and the sisters (who killed each other)?  I either missed it or forgot.  Thanks!

When Frieda was originally in the maximum security about 30 years earlier, she was allied with one of the sisters.  IIRC, Frieda stole that sister's stash and blamed the other sister to set them against each other.  She meanwhile turned in the stash and used it as a bargaining chip to get herself transferred to minimum security. 

Frieda knew that the sisters had realised that she was the one who'd set them up, which is why she was trying her best to avoid them. 

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I am seriously late to the party here. 

  • My heart broke for Blanca and Diablo. I read ahead here (my own fault) and knew ICE was showing up and experienced a physical reaction not only showing the new ICE centers MCC whatever the new name is company will be holding. For profit prisons and "detention centers" are revolting. With the dehumanizing rhetoric about undocumented immigrants I wouldn't be shocked at all if no one gave her a heads up ICE was waiting and left Diablo hanging. Did we know she was undocumented?
  • Madison comes across as someone with a legit, untreated personality or conduct disorder. He behavior in her backstory and the only scene we get of her 'treatment' is some sort of treatment camp screams 'too little too late' intervention wise.
  • The sisters murdering their younger sister was by far the most chilling backstory this show has. Their home life wasn't all kittens and unicorns. It seemed her parents only gave a shit about the youngest and had serious control issues.
  • I really hope season 7 involves Sophia coming around to share her story as well as justice for Tasha and Poussey. If Sophia signed an NDA any good lawyer would be able to challenge it since it was basically sign this and get released or continue to be abused in prison. I can't fault her at all for agreeing to whatever to get out.

I don't expect the series to end on a happy note. Just maybe a glimmer of justice for the abuses committed at the hands of the prison system. Yes, they are criminals and some committed heinous crimes but that doesn't excuse the abuse suffered at the hands of the guards.

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On 8/8/2018 at 10:46 AM, PreBabylonia said:

Regarding her accent, Amanda Fuller says she was told to come across with a Boston accent and modelled it on Ben Affleck and to a lesser degree, Amy Ryan.

BEN AFFLECK AND AMY RYAN, WATCHING THAT INTERVIEW: Um....how about NO.

Seriously, though. Someone, somewhere, at some time--even if only on the internet--must have made it clear to her since this season dropped what a shit job she did at that accent. Why on God's green earth would she name-check people she tried (and I use that word loosely) to model it after?

Edited by auntiemel

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While I would have had no problem with Taystee being found guilty of inciting the riot, I have a big issue with her being found guilty of the death of Piscatella. We all know who really killed him. For that matter, Daya shouldn't be convicted of the murder of Humps. Kukudio actually admitted to it to Suzanne down in medical. Daya shot him....that's true. But after Sophia and the Dr done surgery he was recovering. On the list of injustices is Blanca and the ICE situation. How was she not taken in by ICE before now? She had been in Litchfield for quite a while and then Max. They wait until she is released? Diablo waiting for her with flowers broke my heart.

As for Lorna's baby, I'm worried. I had a baby at 7 months.....there could be complications. I hope Vinny and her sister can step up and care for the baby if it lives.

I'm not gonna get started on Badison. Previous posters have pretty much summed up the way that I feel.

I didn't care for Carol or Barb. I'm glad they are dead.

Red went off the rails. I really find it hard to believe that she chose to attack Frieda over seeing her grandchildren. That makes zero sense. She could have plotted her revenge after visitation.

As for Piper and Alex. I did enjoy the wedding officiated by Rabbi Nichols....lol. 

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3 hours ago, mj2000 said:

While I would have had no problem with Taystee being found guilty of inciting the riot, I have a big issue with her being found guilty of the death of Piscatella. We all know who really killed him. For that matter, Daya shouldn't be convicted of the murder of Humps. Kukudio actually admitted to it to Suzanne down in medical. Daya shot him....that's true. But after Sophia and the Dr done surgery he was recovering. On the list of injustices is Blanca and the ICE situation. How was she not taken in by ICE before now? She had been in Litchfield for quite a while and then Max. They wait until she is released? Diablo waiting for her with flowers broke my heart.

Daya intentionally shot Humps, and being shot significantly contributed to his death. So even though he was a shitty person, I'm ok with her being on the hook for his murder.

As for Blanca, did we ever find out what landed her in prison? Her story was sad and the actress sold it well, but it is hard to feel too bad about her deportation without knowing what crime she comitted.

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On 6/16/2019 at 3:08 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Daya intentionally shot Humps, and being shot significantly contributed to his death. So even though he was a shitty person, I'm ok with her being on the hook for his murder.

As for Blanca, did we ever find out what landed her in prison? Her story was sad and the actress sold it well, but it is hard to feel too bad about her deportation without knowing what crime she comitted.

Wasn't she stealing or doing something to an old handicapped woman she was caring for, because she fired her boyfriend. 

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:19 PM, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Hands down, the saddest part for me was Diablo standing there with flowers waiting for Blanca.  I so wanted those two to have a happy reunion and go off together to make lots of babies.

There's nothing stopping them from going off together and making lots of babies in her home country.

If the show really wanted to end with a bang, make a statement, show some serious balls... they would have Taystee get the death penalty, and then show it. It would be an amazing acting opportunity for Danielle Brooks, a compelling and edgy storyline, and a conversation about the justice system and the death penalty in particular.

Edited by axlmadonna
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