S05.E16: Reunion Part 2 2018.07.26

[may flowers]

What struck me about Ashley in this reunion was her complete lack of boundaries when it came to Thomas, Kathryn, their children and the custody agreement. It’s not Ashley’s fight, but she’s inserted herself very deeply into those relationships and acts like her opinion matters. It doesn’t.  She’s not the new wife and stepmom. I can’t imagine how Kathryn felt when Ashley insinuated Kathryn got special treatment or she would have missed a drug test and abrogated the agreement. The reality is Kathryn met all the obligations of her court-sanctioned agreement with Thomas. A judge agreed. Ashley’s attempts to undermine that was wrong.  It seemed Ashley was trying to provoke Kathryn.  I was impressed it didn’t work. 

 

I wish that that they had just done the first hour of the reunion and not this additional one with Ashley. It was not interesting. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

11 hours ago, Sage47 said:

I don’t think Ashley should get a pass for being a POS because she’s associated with Thomas and he “caused her to be that way”.  It is not remotely just him, nope!  She already had some very serious issues. 

I recall well how Ashley gleefully chose the tiny shorts to meet Kathryn at that party. She had two choices but picked the more provacative one. Then she hung all over Thomas and kept trying to goad Kathryn. She IS a terrible human being. No way around it 

Also, during the lunch she had with Kathryn, Ashley purposefully told her the first day she met the kids was on Mother's Day.  That was on purpose to get a dig in. 

I think it is interesting that Whitney started this show and it was to be based on Southern men and it has turned into most of the leads being female. 

[RedHawk]

10 hours ago, izabella said:

You must have missed season 1 when Kathryn was taking that drunk old man home to meet her parents, and both her parents and her grandmother were so approving of her planning to marry a man 30 years her senior with a prison record.  And that car ride where she told the girls she was waiting for a ring any minute now, maybe after she gets pregnant, but any minute now.

 

I don’t know, I think disinviting the cast to your wedding and then asking Andy to officiate it when you have not even been proposed to yet is going pretty far out there. I can’t imagine what Thomas thought when he heard about that.  As we all saw, Thomas led Kathryn to believe that he would marry her if she got pregnant whereas he recoiled every time Ashley pushed for a ring, a proposal, etc. She has been far more desperately seeking marriage than Kathryn was. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by RedHawk

[ozzy]

13 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

But Kathryn hasn't used her illness as an excuse to defend her behaviour and I don't think anyone here has either. Kathryn has been ripped on from the start because we all saw the destructive behaviour and held her accountable to it. No one is retroactively defending her past actions in light of knowing of addiction and depression issues but what many of us are doing is not using those past behaviours to hang over her head and question the sincerity of her behaviour when our eyes and ears show us that she is certainly not the same person she was in seasons past. She's still is a work in a progress but, and I can only speak for myself, don't think we do any favours to the subject when we don't acknowledge that it is in fact an accomplishment when you can achieve sobriety and a healthy mental state to allow you to simply live with some decency. I'm really sorry that you experience those issues in your family, I can't imagine that it's easy to be part of that kind of support system, must take a lot of patience and energy to see the process through and be mindful but speaking specifically to your intolerance and what sets you off with Kathryn, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because again, I haven't taken anything she's said as an excuse for harming people. In fact, at one point when Cam was having her breakdown and was apologizing to Kathryn, Kathryn said 'it's okay, I've forgiven' and then she clarified that forgiveness for Cam isn't needed but that she's needed to forgive herself and her past. She could have taken that apology and played victim but instead, she took the moment to demonstrate that she had to atone for her own behaviour because it was largely a catalyst for how she was treated by the others. 

I love this observation so much. She is getting there. Recovery is hard, and requires Grace and inner Fortitude.

Also , when is Thomas Ravenel going to check into Rehab?  

Edited July 28, 2018 by ozzy
Reasons

[b2H]

On 7/26/2018 at 10:45 PM, JenE4 said:

Thank you so much, RedDelicious, for the throwback to the ultimate viral video The Bed Intruder Song. That video kills me every time! Wise words, indeed: “Hide yo kids, hide yo wives. Hide yo kids. Hide yo wives. And hide your husbands cause they rapin everybody out here.” But, I think the song is more for Thomas than Ashley.

But, man, the whole gang really got me feeling for Ashley when they were empathetic for her and saying Thomas is the one causing all of this and brainwashing her—and gaslighting her. That was so sad when she was saying it was her fault Thomas threw the food at her. But it was also pretty strange the way she was saying their way of having fun is fighting and her immediate response to an earlier question about what’s their relationship like is that they like to scare each other—jumping out at each other and throwing open the shower curtain, or as Shep responded, Psycho play-acting. I think all that says a lot about their dysfunction and the continual need to get this negative charge out of each other by terrorizing each other and everyone around them. This isn’t normal. I feel like we’re watching the lead up to one of these torturous serial killer couples on that ID 24-hour murder channel. What the fuck? Thomas is crazy. Yes, Kathryn played into that dynamic a bit, but she was 21 and they just had a love-hate pull between themselves, so whatever. But Thomas and Ashley together—holy shit—they’ll terrorize the world with their “love.” 

Having been a mild version of a battered wife a long time ago, Ashley is exhibiting all the red flags of being a battered wife/girlfriend.  Everything with Thomas is always her fault and either she needs to better or it was all in good fun.  It was neither, andshe is being abused all in the hopes of marrying this guy.

her attitude toward Kathryn is entirely scripted by Thomas.  He is an awful person.  He and Ashley were made for each other and deserve each other.

[Stephres]

21 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I'm willing to bet if she wasn't medicated and didn't have the court watching her every move, hanging access to her kids over her head,  Kathryn would have been all over trying to beat down Ashley. I don't find that all that redeeming. Kathryn has proven she sober, doesn't mean she's changed. 

Are family courts really like that nowadays? With their mother's documented drug use plus all their other bad behavior on the show I don't think their arrangement is all that far fetched. I do also think the fact that Thomas had a full time Nanny to care for the kids helped his case too. At least there was one stable person on his side to make sure kids were safe. God knows what those kids would have been exposed to if left alone with Kathryn during that time. 

I know for a fact that courts favor white men with connections, especially family court, from watching a friend battle it. Why does Thomas get to determine when and how many drug tests are taken? Why doesn't Thomas have any random drug tests? Why is when he misses her dates with the kids, that time is never made up? There are reasons, and it has nothing to do with justice.

I have long suspected that he knows so much about her drug dealer because it is his drug dealer as well. And now Ashley's as well. He is a predator, who uses his money and status to his advantage.

[TeeMo]

Put me on the record in believing there are zero non-assholes in the Ashley-Thomas-Kathryn triangle and the only people I feel badly for in that orbit are those two children who are being raised by such a collection of lowlifes. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

57 minutes ago, b2H said:

Having been a mild version of a battered wife a long time ago, Ashley is exhibiting all the red flags of being a battered wife/girlfriend.  Everything with Thomas is always her fault and either she needs to better or it was all in good fun.  It was neither, andshe is being abused all in the hopes of marrying this guy.

her attitude toward Kathryn is entirely scripted by Thomas.  He is an awful person.  He and Ashley were made for each other and deserve each other.

I'm not sure how it can be all of these things.  If she is a victim, how can she "deserve him"?  

For me, I think she's a grown ass woman who is going along with a program.  He's clearly an asshole, and she's a volunteer.

[Adiba]

1 hour ago, Stephres said:

I know for a fact that courts favor white men with connections, especially family court, from watching a friend battle it. Why does Thomas get to determine when and how many drug tests are taken? Why doesn't Thomas have any random drug tests? Why is when he misses her dates with the kids, that time is never made up? There are reasons, and it has nothing to do with justice.

I have long suspected that he knows so much about her drug dealer because it is his drug dealer as well. And now Ashley's as well. He is a predator, who uses his money and status to his advantage.

I thought this myself--why didn't Kathryn request that (maybe she did and it was denied)? Also, because Thomas went to rehab, albeit years ago, why is he given a free pass on excessive alcohol consumption?

[CatMomma]

I'm not seeing all this "Katherine love" some posters are talking about.  A lot of people are cautiously optimistic and appreciate the hard work Katherine has put in to improve herself and the incredible poise she showed while being attacked in a really vicious way by Ashley. 

I will admit that I was one of the few posters who felt some sympathy for Katherine from the beginning.  Not because I felt her behavior was ok,  but because it felt like she was seen as this manipulative femme fatale who manipulated poor clueless Thomas. He was close to 50 at the time,  so it was baffling that he was seen as this innocent victim.  I just wanted Katherine to get away from him. 

After seeing Ashley at the reunion it is even more clear that Thomas is manipulative and abusive.  That being said,  I can't remember Katherine EVER going as low as Ashley. So,  while she is in abusive relationship,  she is still an asshole.  Getting away from Thomas won't suddenly cure her of being an asshole. 

[zenme]

8 hours ago, ozzy said:

I do not get the Kathryn hate. She has clearly cleaned up her life and is on a positive track. Good for her.

She made mistakes. She is contrite and poised. Her self proclaimed motivation? Her children!. All good, y'all 

I don't hate Kathryn. I just don't like her. That was before all of the crazy shit she did when she with Thomas. I didn't care for season 1 Kathryn's sober personality and for me, that's where it started. Her crazy antics post babies added to the dislike.

That being said, I give her kudos for doing what she needed to do to get her kids back. Those poor kids did nothing to deserve not having a mother in their lives. 

[b2H]

5 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I'm not sure how it can be all of these things.  If she is a victim, how can she "deserve him"?  

For me, I think she's a grown ass woman who is going along with a program.  He's clearly an asshole, and she's a volunteer.

Read up on the battered wife syndrome.  It is strong enough to be evidentiary in courts where women have murdered their abusive partners and received reduced or no sentences. 

Ashley is a good match for Thomas.  She will tolerate all the abuse he can mete out.  Kathryn knows this, sees this, having lived it, and is glad she is out.

[Jextella]

I don't feel for one second Ashley is anywhere close to being battered or brain-washed.   

IMO, Ashley is choosing to stay for money and publicity, regardless of what junk Thomas throws her way.  It ain't about love, fear or brainwashing for her.  When the money and fame go is when we'll see her go.  This could mean Thomas pays her off or she loses face when she loses her job from HIPPA violations and/or general quackery such that scales tip in Thomas' favor.

Thomas and Ashley are playing a game with each other.  Ashley is winning right now. 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Jextella

[Stiggs]

9 hours ago, Stephres said:

I know for a fact that courts favor white men with connections, especially family court, from watching a friend battle it. Why does Thomas get to determine when and how many drug tests are taken? Why doesn't Thomas have any random drug tests? Why is when he misses her dates with the kids, that time is never made up? There are reasons, and it has nothing to do with justice.

I have long suspected that he knows so much about her drug dealer because it is his drug dealer as well. And now Ashley's as well. He is a predator, who uses his money and status to his advantage.

Same here - I am still dumbfounded by what the NC courts did to a friend of mine. Her son is now 14 and resentful as hell about their horrible, horrible, sexist decisions. The story is unbelievable - but I was there for it all. I have 0 problem believing the courts favor Thomas because he’s a good old boy. He is scum and should be dragged through a hedge backward. 

After putting an actual # on Shep’s, um, free-spiritedness, and knowing he’s less than strict with wrapping up his schlong while on his adventures...I feel like I need to take an antiobiotic. Even in my heyday hooking up that often would have flat out exhausted me. No wonder he looks like he runs on 2 hours of sleep...he must literally be running on 2 hours of sleep. 

Cameran clearly believes Thomas is a rapist. Girl seemed shook about it. I am not worried for her about her tears, though. I thought she was just letting some shit out. I think I like Mom Cameran. :)

Also glad to hear conversations on TV about depression/meds/stigmas. Depression and anxiety medications save lives. Nobody should ever feel ashamed of having a medical issue. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Stiggs

[oceanview]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 11:33 AM, SheTalksShit said:

T-Rav is a nightmare. 

I blame a lot of his personality and morals on his chauvinistic father and have since the first time he showed his face on the show (the father that is).   Cannot help but wonder how TRav's mother was treated.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, b2H said:

Read up on the battered wife syndrome.  It is strong enough to be evidentiary in courts where women have murdered their abusive partners and received reduced or no sentences. 

Ashley is a good match for Thomas.  She will tolerate all the abuse he can mete out.  Kathryn knows this, sees this, having lived it, and is glad she is out.

I don't really need to read up on anything.  My point was that if the opinion is that she's somehow abused, I can't remotely understand why she would "deserve' the abuser.  Nothing said or read will justify that for me, not that anyone has to.

It's my opinion.  You have yours.  What a country.

[Higgins]

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:43 PM, Bronzedog said:

ddIt was funny after Ashley was talking about how she and Thomas liked to scare each other in the shower, (really, WTF??), Shep said, "Bates Motel."

I'm surprised Thomas has a master bathroom shower that needs a shower curtain, 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Higgins

[chewycandy]

Craig’s face when Ashley was talking about the fun times with T-Rav and how they scare each other was everything. His grin was a mile wide.

Thomas foaming at the mouth and nearly jumping at Chelsea is all I need, thanks. I believe Kathryn when she says when he is angry his eyes turn black. 

[Babyfoot]

13 hours ago, TeeMo said:

Put me on the record in believing there are zero non-assholes in the Ashley-Thomas-Kathryn triangle and the only people I feel badly for in that orbit are those two children who are being raised by such a collection of lowlifes. 

They are the perfect trifecta of assholery. 

[Stan39]

On 7/27/2018 at 11:19 AM, Sun-Bun said:

Kadooze to Austen—-looks like he really is following through on his beer-drenched dreams:

Let’s hope he adds some more brews to the fold as he grows this new little brewing project. Good for him actually getting it done and seeing it to fruition—-what’s your excuse now, Craig??

Lol. Yes, good on Austen to describe his dream beer to a third-party company that could then ACTUALLY create the beer, with his parents money. He even crowdsourced the name. It would be one thing if he actually took the time to learn how to brew beer and create something from scratch, but all he did was hire a company to do his work for him. Not really impressed. 

[Jextella]

On 7/26/2018 at 10:43 PM, Bronzedog said:

It was funny after Ashley was talking about how she and Thomas liked to scare each other in the shower, (really, WTF??), Shep said, "Bates Motel."

Totally missed this.   Must rewatch!

[Stan39]

On 7/28/2018 at 2:06 AM, may flowers said:

What struck me about Ashley in this reunion was her complete lack of boundaries when it came to Thomas, Kathryn, their children and the custody agreement. It’s not Ashley’s fight, but she’s inserted herself very deeply into those relationships and acts like her opinion matters. It doesn’t.  She’s not the new wife and stepmom. I can’t imagine how Kathryn felt when Ashley insinuated Kathryn got special treatment or she would have missed a drug test and abrogated the agreement. The reality is Kathryn met all the obligations of her court-sanctioned agreement with Thomas. A judge agreed. Ashley’s attempts to undermine that was wrong.  It seemed Ashley was trying to provoke Kathryn.  I was impressed it didn’t work. 

 

I wish that that they had just done the first hour of the reunion and not this additional one with Ashley. It was not interesting. 

That was the main takeaway I got from this season. We can debate the silliness of these adults fighting with each other, but the only real scary true life thing is that Ashley is allowed around those children. I realize Kenzie and Saint have probably always had at least one unhinged parent taking care of them (Thomas sounds like a monster behind closed doors), but at least those are the children's natural parents. Ashley doesn't seem mentally or emotionally stable to be around them, and it's sad to think what effect she might have on them. The girl needs her own intervention to get healthy, unfortunately she hasn't hit rock bottom yet to seek help. 

[Bossa Nova]

11 hours ago, Higgins said:

I'm surprised Thomas has a master bathroom shower that needs a shower curtain, 

Maybe they really were staying at the Bates Motel.

[lampwick]

On 7/27/2018 at 2:39 PM, Adiba said:

I don't think it is necessarily being used as an excuse, but more as a reason. No one is saying that if one had mental illness and addiction problems that it is OK to harm others. No, Kathryn certainly was not mother of the year in the past, but she is trying now. She may never be a model parent--she is trying to be a sober, functioning, "good enough" one at least.

I think the applause that she is now getting is due to 1.) The cast and Bravo distancing themselves from TRav and 2.) Understanding that dealing with addiction and mental illness is difficult. Getting sober is hard--staying sober is even harder. The cast, imo, is attempting to encourage and celebrate Kathryn's efforts.

I do have some concern for Ashley--she looks and sounds terrible, and she wasn't making a whole lot of sense at the reunion.

Yes.  I think Kathyrn’s past behavior was abhorrent, and I was rolling my eyes at the pats on the back she was getting for just keeping it together.  However, what’s the alternative to praising her behavior?  Sure, everyone could say nothing, but continually referencing her past failings could cause her to think that it doesn’t make a difference what she does, she will never be good enough so why bother, which could lead to a relapse.  Addicts are fragile and are prone to think this way.  For nonaddicts, praising her seems like giving a kid a trophy for graduating from 7th grade, but for Kathryn, hearing that everyone is supoprting her and proud of her progress serves as positive reinforcement that should spurn her to keep going continue to improve her life - it sounds absurd but it really could be the difference between life and death.  

[It seemed to me that Kathryn was uncomfortable with the praise that she was getting for simply not losing her mind, but I think Kathryn knows that she played a part in her demise and is working towards making good choices and taking charge of her life - which is why I flinched when Cam called Kathyrn a victim - that is a step backwards.].  

[sasha206]

I think the patting of Kathyrn on the back is due to the cast largely feeling guilty because now they know what TRav is really all about.  I think they saw him as this swashbuckling, charming womanizer and that Kathyrn was the volatile one.  Seeing the degradation of Ashley, the anger he displayed to Chelsea, and the accusations probably made them reevaluate Kathryn.  Clearly, Kathryn and Ashley had their problems pre-TRav but there is no question this man is toxic to womankind.

On Kathyrn, face looked beautiful but hate the new boobs and the display of them.  Please, for the love of God, Bravoleberities, put them away.   At least for the most part, the Southern Charm women kept it elegant and classy -- much better than the RHO franchises.  But Kathyrn fit right in with the tackiest of the RHO women.

[For Cereals]

I dunno, I still think we’re being punk’d/trolled with Ashley.  She’s a bad actress at best or a crazy person at worst.  What makes me think this more is the picture someone posted a while back of her with Shep and the caption about how much he liked her.  I think that was taken post filming because he couldn’t stand her most of the season.

I’m glad Kathryn is getting it together.  I don’t want to see it happen, but if she were to relapse, I really hope the support continues.  Maybe it was easier for them to turn their backs on her before because she wasn’t the friendliest or most mature.  I don’t think she is a saint but I do think she’s growing up.  I still root for her/cut her a little (very little when she blames others) slack because I think her involvement with Trav, Shep, and Whitney at the time was skeevy.  She was of age chronologically, but not mentally.

[Gam2]

I thought the dresses and makeup on Naomie, Cam and Chelsea were just beautiful, appropriate and flattering. Why does Kathryn have to dress/do makeup like some saloon girl from the 1890’s? She’s a lovely girl and could dress, etc like a fine Southern young lady. And please, honey. Just lose those huge fake eyelashes. Thanks!

In addition, I just HATED that bright red lipstick on Assley.

[iloveit]

Ashley - take Cam’s advice and go back to California for a chance at a nice life. 

[slowpoked]

On 7/26/2018 at 8:15 PM, Bronzedog said:

I hate when slackers like Austen say things like he needs to follow his passion regarding employment.  In reality, Austen, the majority of people are not particularly passionate about their jobs.  That's why it's called work.

It's what slackers use to justify their unemployment. I'm betting if the Bravo money hadn't come in, he would still be working, not too passionately, with Red Hare Brewing. 

[Schippmom]

Last recap

https://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/HolyCinema/archives/2018/07/28/confessions-of-a-southern-charm-newbie-closing-time-for-real

[ivygirl]

I would like to think that the constant praise of Kathryn was an effort to appeal to her better angels. By being so vocal, I imagine that they’re trying to encourage her to stay on the right track. Not to say that she’s great... but to reinforce the improvement.

On 7/27/2018 at 11:44 AM, yourmomiseasy said:

Also, between this show and RHONY, I'm getting ads for rehab now.  I guess it's better than when I was getting fibroid ads.

They tried to show me ads for rehab, but I said no, no, no...

[Sun-Bun]

5 hours ago, slowpoked said:

It's what slackers use to justify their unemployment. I'm betting if the Bravo money hadn't come in, he would still be working, not too passionately, with Red Hare Brewing. 

Hell, he couldn’t even “follow his passion” until his parents agreed to toss some money at him to go further pursue his Trop-Hop project. And I’m totally understanding of parents who have the means to want to help their childrens’ projects succeed, but I seriously doubt we would’ve seen this pipe dream come to fruition this soon without their close assistance and his TV show dough, let’s be honest. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - 

Austen is 30 or 31 years old, and prior to the Bravo opportunity, he worked as a beer salesman, right?  Maybe wages are higher in the Charleston area, but in my community, that would probably be a $40-50k job at best.  Not sure how he would be able to finance a brewery on his own and without financial assistance from family.  Even with a business plan written by Warren Buffet, he would need outside financing to avoid getting laughed out of a bank.  I won't hold that against him.

[may flowers]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - 

Austen is 30 or 31 years old, and prior to the Bravo opportunity, he worked as a beer salesman, right?  Maybe wages are higher in the Charleston area, but in my community, that would probably be a $40-50k job at best.  Not sure how he would be able to finance a brewery on his own and without financial assistance from family.  Even with a business plan written by Warren Buffet, he would need outside financing to avoid getting laughed out of a bank.  I won't hold that against him.

Agreed. A point Chelsea made that stood out to me though was that Austin had parents who were willing and able to help him with money and support and yet Austin wasn’t motivated to focus on it. That lack of motivation seemed to impact her opinion of him just as much as his never picking up a check. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by may flowers

[RealitytvLover]

On 7/27/2018 at 7:44 AM, Juliegirlj said:

I predict a few more hook ups

I certainly hope not. Shep probably has an STD or two, given what he admitted in the reunion. I'd refuse sleeping with him ever again if I were her, and get checked by the doc's ASAP. 

[scrb]

7 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - 

Austen is 30 or 31 years old, and prior to the Bravo opportunity, he worked as a beer salesman, right?  Maybe wages are higher in the Charleston area, but in my community, that would probably be a $40-50k job at best.  Not sure how he would be able to finance a brewery on his own and without financial assistance from family.  Even with a business plan written by Warren Buffet, he would need outside financing to avoid getting laughed out of a bank.  I won't hold that against him.

It also may be that he couldn't do his job and film.  He may not have been available at times when production wanted to film.

So of course he's going to choose the Bravo paycheck instead.

But again, to hide the fact that the main source of income for several of these cast members is the show, they had to get "jobs" for their story lines.

[slowpoked]

15 minutes ago, scrb said:

But again, to hide the fact that the main source of income for several of these cast members is the show, they had to get "jobs" for their story lines.

Well of course. The main sell of these "reality" shows are that these are just your "regular" people, who just happened to be filmed by Bravo about their "everyday" lives for a show. 

That's why I wasn't fond of the turn SC took the past few seasons. The main premise of the show is the ridiculous lives of the well-known Southern families and the still existing class system in the South. When the show started moving towards "ordinary" people, then you suddenly have this discussion of if the cast should be having everyday, regular jobs. Like, I don't fault Shep for living a trust fund kid life (but it's certainly not an attraction to me), but I do want to watch about how ridiculous it is.  

7 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - 

Austen is 30 or 31 years old, and prior to the Bravo opportunity, he worked as a beer salesman, right?  Maybe wages are higher in the Charleston area, but in my community, that would probably be a $40-50k job at best.  Not sure how he would be able to finance a brewery on his own and without financial assistance from family.  Even with a business plan written by Warren Buffet, he would need outside financing to avoid getting laughed out of a bank.  I won't hold that against him.

For me, it's not really about the financing. I understand needing seed money eventually, either from a bank, mom/dad, friends, etc. It's more the pretense of being funemployed in order to "find his passion." Really, if this was an important passion of his, he would have negotiated with Red Hare Brewing to involve him in the brewing process so he can start learning. He would start saving up some of that regular salary, instead of pounding away bongs and pints every night in downtown. Filming SC is only 3-4 months ( usually September - December). It's not that huge of an imposition to work around that schedule, considering his job doesn't seem to be a 9-5 desk job, as being a salesman offers flexibility. And I don't think the company would have minded the name drops on the show every now and then. Heck, Chelsea is working her regular day job AND filming the show. I'm sure Willow Salon isn't hurting for the name recognition on having one of their employees be on Bravo.

[Sun-Bun]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

I understand needing seed money eventually, either from a bank, mom/dad, friends, etc. It's more the pretense of being funemployed in order to "find his passion." Really, if this was an important passion of his, he would have negotiated with Red Hare Brewing to involve him in the brewing process so he can start learning. He would start saving up some of that regular salary, instead of pounding away bongs and pints every night in downtown.

Agreed, @slowpoked! That’s why I can’t be *too* impressed with Austen’s Trop-Hop venture just yet and it seems pretty rich that he’s suddenly proudly extolling the virtues of pursuing one’s passion in the professional world. Literally all he did was go to a boutique brewery in Greenville, suggest a few extra flavors to add to his favorite beer style that he(his parents) paid for them to brew up for him, and boom, suddenly he’s promoting his new brewing company.

Hopefully he has some other ideas and flavors/styles in mind down the road—-tropical/fruity IPA’s are nothing very new or groundbreaking in the craft brew world and I do wish him well, but I’d respect him a bit more if he were actively learning more about the brewing process along with the business/marketing end of craft beer and not just seen dicking around downtown...hopefully his time at Red Hare prepared him for the commercial/PR side of the beer biz, at least.

[Stan39]

9 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - 

Austen is 30 or 31 years old, and prior to the Bravo opportunity, he worked as a beer salesman, right?  Maybe wages are higher in the Charleston area, but in my community, that would probably be a $40-50k job at best.  Not sure how he would be able to finance a brewery on his own and without financial assistance from family.  Even with a business plan written by Warren Buffet, he would need outside financing to avoid getting laughed out of a bank.  I won't hold that against him.

I'm sure they're financed with assistance, but don't most breweries start with a genuine interest in the craft? Austen talks about his "passion", but does he even know how to brew beer? We watch him describe his beer to a brewmaster who then goes off and makes the batch. Maybe his beer is great and will be a big success, I just feel like when you learn about microbrews and breweries (or restaurants for that matter), there's a story about some guys sitting in their garage/backyard experimenting with stuff because they love to make beer. Then they get to a point where they start selling it around town, people like it, so they figure out how to make more. There's a lot of boot strapping and charm and figuring things out. So far as I can tell, Austen outsourced his entire operation using his parents' money. What kind of story is that? Maybe there doesn't need to be a story behind a beer, but I feel like that's part of the appeal of these microbrews, why they exist the way they do. Austen's company just seems hollow. Plus, isn't EVERYBODY into IPAs these days? Couldn't he have made something different or not just like what everyone else is doing? The whole thing is pretty lazy.

 

Plus, I wonder how economically viable a company is when it's built around a product that you didn't create? Maybe the master brewer sells his recipe as part of the contract, but if he gets a royalty for every beer sold I wonder how they factors in to Austen's profit margins? You've got to think the brewmaster gets something more than just a one time fee for making the beer and then allowing the customer to go off and resell it exponentially. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Stan39
Forgot something.

[Heathrowe]

Austen's beer is about as artisanal as Skinny Girl Margarita but a lot less clever, as Skinny Girl was really on point for Bethenny. That said-if he is smart he will take the beer, use the reality tv to promote it and start doing more appearances where his beer being served is part of his deal. If it's not horrible, it could sell. Honestly, even if it's horrible, it could sell if he promotes it. But no-he is not going to have a story like he's a handlebar mustache hipster who created this unique product in a bespoke manner! This did not work for JD but I can't imagine there's much interest in JD doing bar appearances anywhere, and I can see Austen being able to use his sales skills from his old job to carry an event.

[Stan39]

13 minutes ago, Heathrowe said:

Austen's beer is about as artisanal as Skinny Girl Margarita but a lot less clever, as Skinny Girl was really on point for Bethenny. That said-if he is smart he will take the beer, use the reality tv to promote it and start doing more appearances where his beer being served is part of his deal. If it's not horrible, it could sell. Honestly, even if it's horrible, it could sell if he promotes it. But no-he is not going to have a story like he's a handlebar mustache hipster who created this unique product in a bespoke manner! This did not work for JD but I can't imagine there's much interest in JD doing bar appearances anywhere, and I can see Austen being able to use his sales skills from his old job to carry an event.

Lol. I never said he needed to be a hipster. what breweries do you go to? I'm just talking about regular guys making beer because it's fun. I doubt Austen even knows the ingredients in his beer. Honestly, I'm not really sure how he can promote it, other than by having his friends drink it on screen and tell him how good it is. Getting back to my point, promotion is all about the story about the beer, if he goes on TV he needs to say something about where the beer comes from, how he came up with it, why people should buy it, etc. And I don't think he has anything to say about it. 

[Natalie68]

On 7/28/2018 at 5:51 AM, SuprSuprElevated said:

I'm not sure how it can be all of these things.  If she is a victim, how can she "deserve him"?  

For me, I think she's a grown ass woman who is going along with a program.  He's clearly an asshole, and she's a volunteer.

There is nothing to back this up, just a feeling BUT, I think yes he is an asshole to her and I think mind fucks her (I am talking Ashley/Thomas) and she fucks with him as well so I believe they abuse each other and various substances (plus I do think she has something on him and dangles that in front of him).  I also think she is playing up the other cast mates concerns for her so if and when he dumps her, she can talk about being the abused person who loved him so damn much but alas, she couldn't continue.  Yes I think she is THAT fucked in the head.  I see nothing sincere or real about her.  She and Thomas are two peas in a pod.  

[psychoticstate]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:21 AM, RHJunkie said:

She was not a good mother because of her own demons, not because of her disinterest in being a good parent. Sure, we can call a spade a spade and say that it was probably in the best interests of her children that they spend limited time with her until she got her shit together, but let's not do a disservice to the real issues that Kathryn was dealing with that led to those bad decisions. Let's not contribute to the reasons why mental illness and addiction are stigmatized which leads to many sufferers to go far too long without seeking care and receiving appropriate treatment. 

Obviously Thomas is to blame for the things he told Ashley but no one is criticizing her for having received that information, she's being criticized for using that information as a weapon against Kathryn in an effort to shame her and distract from any kind of progress Kathryn may be making in her recovery...and she 100% deserves blame for that. Why does need to bring up information that happened before she was part of Thomas' life and is contrary to the relationship that Kathryn has with Thomas and her kids today? It was malicious, plain and simple and I'm not giving Ashley any kind of break with that.

I think it's a bit revisionist to say that the girls immediately sided against Ashley. Among themselves, the girls joked about Ashley being the flavour of the week but that was more a poke at Thomas and her behaviours, not at Ashley. They tried to include her when they were around her and sure, they didn't roll out the red carpet for her but they made an effort and in return, she made an effort to decline their efforts and instead chose to play the role of being excluded. It wasn't until the escort thing came to light (at the very end of the season) did the women throw any kind of shade to Ashley's face about being a gold digger. The women sided against Ashley when she started making her vile comments towards Kathryn and I don't disagree with them for that at all. If you're gonna act like a nasty bitch, I'm not going to feel sorry for you when you gain no friends from it. If Ashley behaved like that walking into my friends circle, I wouldn't feel any kind of obligation to befriend her. Kindness doesn't take much and Ashley lacked a great deal of that this season. Unless Ashley is dealing with someone that she won't disclose, in my mind there's no way to defend her.

Ashley looked like a broken woman when trying to defend her relationship with Thomas and I'm not sure yet if it was her failed attempt at making their relationship look solid and convincing or if she really is brainwashed by Thomas enough to normalize all of his behaviour.

As far as the mean girls and Ashley, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I didn't see them put that much effort into welcoming them into their group because they acted as though they had to choose between her and Kathryn.   If everyone is part of the same group and everyone must all go to the same events- - which is weird and kinda non-realistic anyhow -- then everyone needs to put their big girl panties on. 

Yeah, Ashley did display a terrible lack of kindness and empathy but again - - who knows exactly what Thomas was saying to her when the cameras weren't rolling.  And he certainly did the same himself.  I feel as though he wants someone by his side constantly and he wants what he can't have.  When he doesn't have Kathryn, he wants her.  When he did have her, he treated her badly.  I stand by my earlier post that Thomas emotionally batters Ashley - - all his women, actually.  She acts out and against the one person she easily can - - Kathryn, who has probably been made out to be the enemy by Thomas.  It's absolutely not right but if Thomas had spoken nicely and kindly about Kathryn to Ashley in the first place, would she (Ashley) have talked smack in the first place?  

I'm not knocking Kathryn over any type of anxiety or depression or any other mental issue she may have.  Honestly, it doesn't matter what she was going through because, at the end of the day, she wasn't a good mother to her children for a while.  She obviously wasn't thinking rationally because she continued to hook up, at least sporadically, with T-Rav and had another child with him, even after what he was putting her through.  And she hooked up with him again as recently as last summer.  Maybe she needs a good therapist and to start befriending people outside of T-Rav's social circle.

In any event, as I said before - - if Kathryn has gotten herself and her life together, kadooz for her.  She will benefit and her children will benefit.

[Gam2]

No one can ever convince me that Ashley didn’t watch every season of this show and set her sights on Thomas, although God knows why she would want to be within a mile of this guy. She knew exactly what she was getting into but was willing to do it to be on TV. She has no business telling Kathryn anything at all about her children, their relationship, K’s relationship with Thomas or anything else. Her interaction with those children should be limited or not at all. If they are with their dad, she needs to keep her distance. If this relationship were actually going somewhere- marriage for instance - then the kids could spend increasingly more time with Ashley. But there’s no way in hell that Thomas is going to marry this woman. He knows it, we know it, the cast knows it, the waiters at the local watering hole know it. And that “scaring each other for laughs”, etc is what 4 year olds do to their siblings. That was the most bizarre thing about her appearance on the reunion. I just rolled my eyes and thought “No, honey, you’re just lying through your teeth now”.  

[SheTalksShit]

On 7/27/2018 at 5:22 PM, RHJunkie said:

But Kathryn hasn't used her illness as an excuse to defend her behaviour and I don't think anyone here has either. Kathryn has been ripped on from the start because we all saw the destructive behaviour and held her accountable to it. No one is retroactively defending her past actions in light of knowing of addiction and depression issues but what many of us are doing is not using those past behaviours to hang over her head and question the sincerity of her behaviour when our eyes and ears show us that she is certainly not the same person she was in seasons past. She's still is a work in a progress but, and I can only speak for myself, don't think we do any favours to the subject when we don't acknowledge that it is in fact an accomplishment when you can achieve sobriety and a healthy mental state to allow you to simply live with some decency. I'm really sorry that you experience those issues in your family, I can't imagine that it's easy to be part of that kind of support system, must take a lot of patience and energy to see the process through and be mindful but speaking specifically to your intolerance and what sets you off with Kathryn, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because again, I haven't taken anything she's said as an excuse for harming people. In fact, at one point when Cam was having her breakdown and was apologizing to Kathryn, Kathryn said 'it's okay, I've forgiven' and then she clarified that forgiveness for Cam isn't needed but that she's needed to forgive herself and her past. She could have taken that apology and played victim but instead, she took the moment to demonstrate that she had to atone for her own behaviour because it was largely a catalyst for how she was treated by the others. 

It’s interesting to me that Kathryn’s so willing to forgive Cameron for being a judgemental bitch to her for no reason, but she wants nothing to do with Landon or Jennifer for the slightest things when they were the 2 that were actually willing to give her a chance. It bugs me, the double-standards she has for people. 

She also forgave Craig very easily for the shit he said to and about her the first season AND for the shit he said about her during season 3, when he told Thomas to take a paternity test. 

Landon and Jennifer never did anything even close to that and she just iced them out for perceived slights that didn’t actually exist. That literally says EVERYTHING to me about her character, how you treat those who’ve been good and loyal to you in the past. So far, her track record is NOT good and that’s what I dislike most about her, tbh. 

[smores]

With Austen wanting to start a business, I would have thought it would make more sense for him to stay employed in the beer industry and do the logistical work while he had a salary. I mean, it seems like the "research" he was doing mostly consisted of just going to the bar and drinking beer, and I think he probably could have kept doing that while he had a job, right?  He does it anyway.  Then he could have figured out what he wanted, and he'd have a bigger network of contacts, maybe more ideas for his product, etc.  Right now he's reminding me of the wife of a friend who laments about how she can't find a job because all of the ones either don't pay enough "to be worth it" or "don't fulfill her passion" or "don't make good use of her purpose" and so it would be a waste of time for her to take one of them.  She just keeps looking (and we're talking 3 years in), and complaining about how hard it is and how it would be nice to do x or y with extra money from a job, etc.  And all I can think is, yeah, maybe that job doesn't pay $100k/year, but whatever it pays is more than the $0/year you bring in now, so isn't that a plus?

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, smores said:

With Austen wanting to start a business, I would have thought it would make more sense for him to stay employed in the beer industry and do the logistical work while he had a salary. I mean, it seems like the "research" he was doing mostly consisted of just going to the bar and drinking beer, and I think he probably could have kept doing that while he had a job, right?  He does it anyway.  Then he could have figured out what he wanted, and he'd have a bigger network of contacts, maybe more ideas for his product, etc. 

Honestly, he probably couldn't keep working in the industry because it was a conflict of interest. How would the beers that he represents feel if they knew he was actively developing his own competitor to their products and using his time that they pay him for to research and market his future product? Furthermore, his contract with the beers that he represented probably had a non-compete clause.

His network of contacts is probably far larger because of the show than it ever was when he was working. Every alcohol rep that I've ever known has a limited area in which they work. It could be a state, but it's usually only part of a state. The smaller the scale the product you rep, the larger the region you rep because they don't have money for a ton of reps. Austen does paid appearances and is offered trips all around the country and globe because of this show. That gives him a much wider network than he ever would have had with his job.

His actual job is the same one that you see when you go to a liquor store or a beer distributor. He goes to those places and does tastings. He talks to the managers to try to convince them to stock those beers. He also goes to restaurants and bars to convince them to stock his beers.

The real problem is that it's hard to depict that job or process in a way that is interesting for viewers. And it's hard to show the testing and tasting process in any way that feels meaningful. I've brewed my own beer, made my own wine, and infused my own alcohol. It's basically boring to look at and so is my process even if the results might be great.

[Higgins]

17 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

Agreed, @slowpoked! That’s why I can’t be *too* impressed with Austen’s Trop-Hop venture just yet and it seems pretty rich that he’s suddenly proudly extolling the virtues of pursuing one’s passion in the professional world. Literally all he did was go to a boutique brewery in Greenville, suggest a few extra flavors to add to his favorite beer style that he(his parents) paid for them to brew up for him, and boom, suddenly he’s promoting his new brewing company.

Hopefully he has some other ideas and flavors/styles in mind down the road—-tropical/fruity IPA’s are nothing very new or groundbreaking in the craft brew world and I do wish him well, but I’d respect him a bit more if he were actively learning more about the brewing process along with the business/marketing end of craft beer and not just seen dicking around downtown...hopefully his time at Red Hare prepared him for the commercial/PR side of the beer biz, at least.

My passion is playing with puppies. I should follow that.

[RHJunkie]

16 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

As far as the mean girls and Ashley, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I didn't see them put that much effort into welcoming them into their group because they acted as though they had to choose between her and Kathryn.   If everyone is part of the same group and everyone must all go to the same events- - which is weird and kinda non-realistic anyhow -- then everyone needs to put their big girl panties on. 

Yeah, Ashley did display a terrible lack of kindness and empathy but again - - who knows exactly what Thomas was saying to her when the cameras weren't rolling.  And he certainly did the same himself.  I feel as though he wants someone by his side constantly and he wants what he can't have.  When he doesn't have Kathryn, he wants her.  When he did have her, he treated her badly.  I stand by my earlier post that Thomas emotionally batters Ashley - - all his women, actually.  She acts out and against the one person she easily can - - Kathryn, who has probably been made out to be the enemy by Thomas.  It's absolutely not right but if Thomas had spoken nicely and kindly about Kathryn to Ashley in the first place, would she (Ashley) have talked smack in the first place?  

I'm not knocking Kathryn over any type of anxiety or depression or any other mental issue she may have.  Honestly, it doesn't matter what she was going through because, at the end of the day, she wasn't a good mother to her children for a while.  She obviously wasn't thinking rationally because she continued to hook up, at least sporadically, with T-Rav and had another child with him, even after what he was putting her through.  And she hooked up with him again as recently as last summer.  Maybe she needs a good therapist and to start befriending people outside of T-Rav's social circle.

In any event, as I said before - - if Kathryn has gotten herself and her life together, kadooz for her.  She will benefit and her children will benefit.

Of course Thomas requires a huge amount of blame but it doesn't make Ashley's behaviour acceptable in any fashion. The same way that now knowing of the mental illnesses Kathryn suffered doesn't make her past behaviours any less acceptable either. It provides some context to understanding those behaviours but that's it. Obviously Ashley's comments were a mix of what Thomas has told her and what she has observed herself but I think a woman looking for a good man would take pause if the man she was dating was berating and trashing the mother of his children. The optics may have given him a good case to go around shaming Kathryn but going around town and on TV talking trash about her could have potential blowback for his children, let alone Kathryn and the fact that he showed very little thought to that would have been a HUGE red flag to me. Ashley ignored red flags and now she's at a point where she's seemingly become susceptible to his manipulations. Maybe she's dealt with her own demons that has made it so easy for Thomas to get his claws into her. So to be clear, I agree with you about Thomas. In all of this, he is the rotten egg that makes the rest smell foul.

[RHJunkie]

8 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

It’s interesting to me that Kathryn’s so willing to forgive Cameron for being a judgemental bitch to her for no reason, but she wants nothing to do with Landon or Jennifer for the slightest things when they were the 2 that were actually willing to give her a chance. It bugs me, the double-standards she has for people. 

She also forgave Craig very easily for the shit he said to and about her the first season AND for the shit he said about her during season 3, when he told Thomas to take a paternity test. 

Landon and Jennifer never did anything even close to that and she just iced them out for perceived slights that didn’t actually exist. That literally says EVERYTHING to me about her character, how you treat those who’ve been good and loyal to you in the past. So far, her track record is NOT good and that’s what I dislike most about her, tbh. 

She iced Jennifer out completely because she claimed Jennifer lied under oath and contributed to the reason why she lost all rights to her children. If it's very possible that Kathryn's perception of reality at that time was distorted and she took offense to what Jennifer said though it may have very well been the truth, but it doesn't change the fact that in Kathryn's mind, she believes that Jennifer lied about her and no matter how good of a friend they were in the past, if you feel a friend lied about you and was partly the reason you lost your children, then I can see why Kathryn would rank that high on the scale of grievances against her.

I don't ever remember Kathryn and Landon being great friends or having any sense of loyalty to one another. I remember both women talking shit behind each other's back. Kathryn accused Landon of chasing Thomas and Landon talked shit about Kathryn as a mother. That isn't perceived slights, those are actual slights and Landon referenced what Thomas was telling her about Kathryn and used it against her. She was hardly an innocent lamb.