S05.E16: Reunion Part 2 2018.07.26

[Adiba]

51 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I'm not saying she should be forever tarnished, but I also don't think she deserves a parade for doing what should be the bare minimum.

 

I think that while everything Ashley said was probably at least technically correct, it wasn't her place to say any of it.  I agree that she probably felt backed into a corner, at least at first in Hilton Head.  Then she didn't handle it properly the next day and kind of doubled down on being an asshole.  

She had ammo against Kathryn, not the group.  I'm not saying they were nasty or confrontational toward Ashley, it's all much subtler than that.  It's more like pointed comments not technically directed at the person, eye rolls, huffs, sighs, groans, giggles - all designed to make the outsider feel excluded while allowing plausible deniability for the mean girls.  If you are not familiar enough with it to recognize the behavior, then lucky you.  

Actually, they dealt with worse.  And it wasn't at the drop of a hat for all destructive behaviors, but anything that could harm me was stopped as soon as I was a known entity, even while abortion was being contemplated.  I have addiction and mental illness on both sides of my family, so that may be why I have so little tolerance of using it as an excuse for harming others.

I don't think it is necessarily being used as an excuse, but more as a reason. No one is saying that if one had mental illness and addiction problems that it is OK to harm others. No, Kathryn certainly was not mother of the year in the past, but she is trying now. She may never be a model parent--she is trying to be a sober, functioning, "good enough" one at least.

I think the applause that she is now getting is due to 1.) The cast and Bravo distancing themselves from TRav and 2.) Understanding that dealing with addiction and mental illness is difficult. Getting sober is hard--staying sober is even harder. The cast, imo, is attempting to encourage and celebrate Kathryn's efforts.

I do have some concern for Ashley--she looks and sounds terrible, and she wasn't making a whole lot of sense at the reunion.

[yourmomiseasy]

3 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

Ok, thanks SuprSuprElevated for the update. So I went to his Instagram page and, um, I think his beer can design needs some help too. IDK, but when I see the jellyfish can design I get an association with a fishy scent, a connection I wouldn't want my market to be making where beer is concerned.  Sigh. He needs some help. Maybe Bethenney from RHONY can help him out as she's great with branding and he needs an expert.  Otherwise, I'm hoping the kid hits it out of the park with this beer venture ... it'd be great to see. 

It made me think of a few of the Ballast Point varieties that have sea life on the cans or bottles.

[biakbiak]

What the hell was up with Craig walking around with his pants undone?

[TheFinalRose]

10 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

It made me think of a few of the Ballast Point varieties that have sea life on the cans or bottles.

Ok, took a look at those but with "Ballast" in its name those sea images feel more on point. Austen should run with the King imagery more, IMO. But what do I know, really? I hate beer. Oh, and his logo is so basic, he needs a better designer. 

[zenme]

3 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

Seriously, I thought the same damned thing!!! Great can designs but the logo is so basic bitch and could’ve been so much better. How do these hipster millennial graphic designers get away with using this same twee minimalism logo shit??

Austen IS a basic bitch.

[yourmomiseasy]

15 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

Ok, took a look at those but with "Ballast" in its name those sea images feel more on point. Austen should run with the King imagery more, IMO. But what do I know, really? I hate beer. Oh, and his logo is so basic, he needs a better designer. 

Jellyfish are tropical and are possibly the new llamas, which were the new hedgehogs, which were the new octopuses, which were the new owls.  So as a few people said, basic bitch.  

ETA, but I'm kinda basic because I like his cans

Edited July 27, 2018 by yourmomiseasy

[SuprSuprElevated]

42 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

If you scroll through the photos, the cans all say Trop Hop as it is the beer name.  King's Calling Brewing Co is the "brewery" name.  That acorn is supposed to be hops wearing a crown because o the king in the name.

Oh okay.  I haven't been to the site.

[blondmommy]

off topic, but Patricia was never going to hire Craig as a pillow designer.  all of her items have the same repeating pattern of a pet image.  there was never any designing, other than fabric selection and size, which is the standard pillow insert size.

[Long Spot]

2 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

For heaven's sake, the woman dealt with addiction and depression....[truncated for brevity]  

THANK YOU, RHJunkie.  

44 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

What the hell was up with Craig walking around with his pants undone?

Only a guess, but I'm betting Mr. Clothes Horse took them off when he went back for lunch so as not to overly wrinkle them or drop food on them, and he was putting them back on right before he returned to the couch. 

[Carolina Girl]

My personal favorite moment was Austen snottily asking "WHEN did you pay for me??" and Chelsea commencing her list.  I think he stopped her after the sixth instance.

Line of the night for Andy:  "Am I the only with a penis here that has ANY ambition"?

[yourmomiseasy]

23 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Oh okay.  I haven't been to the site.

I don't know if there s a site, but the picture posted is from instagram and if you hover over it you should get arrows to scroll through (or just use your finger to scroll on a phone or tablet) because it is a post with multiple pictures.  You don't even have to click to go to instagram, you should be able to do it right here in the thread.

[SuprSuprElevated]

9 minutes ago, blondmommy said:

off topic, but Patricia was never going to hire Craig as a pillow designer.  all of her items have the same repeating pattern of a pet image.  there was never any designing, other than fabric selection and size, which is the standard pillow insert size.

Yep.  Until you're within 10 ft. of one of those horrid caftans, it looks more like the wearer was walking behind one of Thomas' polo ponies at an inopportune moment.

Edited July 27, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[scrb]

4 hours ago, Sun-Bun said:

Kadooze to Austen—-looks like he really is following through on his beer-drenched dreams:

Let’s hope he adds some more brews to the fold as he grows this new little brewing project. Good for him actually getting it done and seeing it to fruition—-what’s your excuse now, Craig??

I don't know anything about microbrews or these custom label beers but I would think he'd need some advertising to get people to order it at bars and for bars to keep ordering it.

So if Bravo lets him use that story line next season, assuming he's going to be still on the show, he'd depend on the show to advertise it and build brand awareness.

Because microbrews are a crowded market.  

You go to some middling bar and grill and they have at least half a dozen lagers for $5-10 a glass.  

So what is his business model for getting his beer ordered before others?  Does he think the bar flies in Charleston will order his label since he's on the show?

[yourmomiseasy]

I think that's actually the part of the beer business he has the most experience in (aside from tasting).

[RHJunkie]

2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I'm not saying she should be forever tarnished, but I also don't think she deserves a parade for doing what should be the bare minimum.

 

I think that while everything Ashley said was probably at least technically correct, it wasn't her place to say any of it.  I agree that she probably felt backed into a corner, at least at first in Hilton Head.  Then she didn't handle it properly the next day and kind of doubled down on being an asshole.  

She had ammo against Kathryn, not the group.  I'm not saying they were nasty or confrontational toward Ashley, it's all much subtler than that.  It's more like pointed comments not technically directed at the person, eye rolls, huffs, sighs, groans, giggles - all designed to make the outsider feel excluded while allowing plausible deniability for the mean girls.  If you are not familiar enough with it to recognize the behavior, then lucky you.  

Actually, they dealt with worse.  And it wasn't at the drop of a hat for all destructive behaviors, but anything that could harm me was stopped as soon as I was a known entity, even while abortion was being contemplated.  I have addiction and mental illness on both sides of my family, so that may be why I have so little tolerance of using it as an excuse for harming others.

But Kathryn hasn't used her illness as an excuse to defend her behaviour and I don't think anyone here has either. Kathryn has been ripped on from the start because we all saw the destructive behaviour and held her accountable to it. No one is retroactively defending her past actions in light of knowing of addiction and depression issues but what many of us are doing is not using those past behaviours to hang over her head and question the sincerity of her behaviour when our eyes and ears show us that she is certainly not the same person she was in seasons past. She's still is a work in a progress but, and I can only speak for myself, don't think we do any favours to the subject when we don't acknowledge that it is in fact an accomplishment when you can achieve sobriety and a healthy mental state to allow you to simply live with some decency. I'm really sorry that you experience those issues in your family, I can't imagine that it's easy to be part of that kind of support system, must take a lot of patience and energy to see the process through and be mindful but speaking specifically to your intolerance and what sets you off with Kathryn, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because again, I haven't taken anything she's said as an excuse for harming people. In fact, at one point when Cam was having her breakdown and was apologizing to Kathryn, Kathryn said 'it's okay, I've forgiven' and then she clarified that forgiveness for Cam isn't needed but that she's needed to forgive herself and her past. She could have taken that apology and played victim but instead, she took the moment to demonstrate that she had to atone for her own behaviour because it was largely a catalyst for how she was treated by the others. 

[Gem 10]

On 7/22/2018 at 2:18 PM, gingerella said:

You know, I really wish they'd iced out Assley and not included her in this because it only feeds her psychotic delusions of self importance. All that bullshit she was drooling to the hair and makeup peeps backstage during the first part of the reunion was gross. I wish one of them had said, "look bitch, you disgust us and the only reason we're working on your stank ass is because we have to, but dont mistake that for us giving any fucks about your deluded, psycho ass." But alas I doubt they did. I do wish they'd also do her hair and makeup so awfully that she'd look like a clown out there on the couch. Yes I'm petty, but that's how much I loathe this creepy freak.

Makeup & hair didn’t do one thing for her.  She looked horrible .. like a skeleton.  She doesn’t look healthy.  Whether it’s nerves, not eating or something she’s taking, she better shape up.  I really don’t care at this point.  Tom-ass and Ashley can take a hike.  Seems like he lost all His friends.  Maybe that’s why he’s keeping her, for company.

[Neurochick]

17 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Have you watched previous seasons? Nobody thought  Katherine was a “ saint” because she gave birth. She - and the others - have said multiple times that the other cast members, for the most part, treated her like a pariah for a number of years. Because she was doing shitty things. 

People are backing her and rooting for her NOW because she is trying to get her shit together and be a good mom. They see she is trying. 

And they probably sympathize that she has to deal with that psychotic string bean known as Ashley. Not to mention that misogynistic piece of shit ex for for basically the rest of HIS life (which thankfully will probably be much shorter than hers). 

Yes, I watched previous seasons...and?  I'm supposed to root for Kathryn now?

I don't think Kathryn's all that but the person I really can't stand is Thomas.  Thomas is a nasty piece of work.  He may send Ashley packing but they'll be another young woman following her.  Maybe that's what worries Kathryn; Thomas getting some other woman pregnant, possibly causing Kathryn's children to compete, like I said, Thomas is a nasty piece of work and I can see him causing shit like that.

[Sage47]

I don’t think Ashley should get a pass for being a POS because she’s associated with Thomas and he “caused her to be that way”.  It is not remotely just him, nope!  She already had some very serious issues. 

I recall well how Ashley gleefully chose the tiny shorts to meet Kathryn at that party. She had two choices but picked the more provacative one. Then she hung all over Thomas and kept trying to goad Kathryn. She IS a terrible human being. No way around it 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Sage47

[izabella]

8 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I also agree that Kathryn would still try to reconcile with monster TRav if given the opportunity. Did she say she slept with him after another reunion? And five times with Shep?

I was so grossed out when Shep and Kathryn said they had slept together after Kenzie was born.  Ewwwwww!   Shep, Thomas, then back to Shep while she was also having post-reunion sex and whenever else with Thomas, plus another baby.  Ewww.

Then we have Austin and Chelsea and Victoria...

These people really need to expand their sex circles. 

[Stiggs]

A couple of seasons ago, my husband stopped and watched this show with me for 10 minutes, and after 30 seconds of watching Thomas he said, “I remember being that coked up back in 88.” And then he asked me if I was watching Intervention. I have always just assumed that everyone knew Thomas is a cokehead and politely didn’t talk about it so he didn’t go back to prison. 

Ashley’s physical appearance and soap digest award winning unraveling left me feeling a million kinds of uneasy. I agree with Shep - god knows what happens behind closed doors. It’s disturbing. 

I actually thought the women were inclusive enough and nice enough to Ashley until they had a reason not to (during the season). I am not quite sure what Ashley expected - they barely knew  her and she was dating the white pants bandit. Erring on the side of not creating a shitfest would have been wise. 

I think the cast is over correcting a little with the Katherine love, but I think it’s nice they are supporting someone who is helping herself and growing. I just don’t see a problem with that. 

And I got some really weird vibe from especially part 2 - it’s like they all saw something we didn’t or haven’t yet. I dunno. But whatever it was, the reunion was an official Thomas/bravo breakup. They went in on him hard. Poor Foghorn. He and JD can cry into their smoking jackets about how the world is so unfair for wealthy white guys...

Edited July 27, 2018 by Stiggs

[Gem 10]

On 7/23/2018 at 11:28 PM, biakbiak said:

Also rich since he commented on IG that Chelsea has a low sex drive and other shit.

How gentlemanly of him.  He’s a douchbag.

[Gem 10]

On 7/25/2018 at 7:34 AM, nexxie said:

Cam would know, so maybe that’s why she didn’t mention him - but she could have chosen him for his character, since he likes to be seen as heterosexual.

Didn’t Whitney sleep with Katherine in those days?

[Toodleoo]

2 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Didn’t Whitney sleep with Katherine in those days?

Maybe he's bi?

[Gam2]

Ashley needs to keep her comments to herself when it comes to Thomas, Kathryn, their children, how the children are parented, what time Kathryn shows up for her blood tests and everything else to do with T, K and the kids. None of her damn business but that’s Thomas’ job to keep her under control. And frankly, what the hell does she know about being a mother?  I’ve never seen a woman as hungry as Assley when it comes to marriage. Holy Cow, woman. Back up that train. Craig just makes me sad. Naomie is still so mean to Craig-I thought she had a new boyfriend that met all of her needs and had moved on. So MOVE ON, girl. I love Cam and Chelsea. Chelsea seems to be the most grounded and happy with herself and with her new man. I’m glad she’s kept him out of this absolute nonsense. I’m so glad for Cam, Jason and Palmer. That baby is too damn cute. Austen, sweetheart— someone needs to write for you. Perhaps you could hire someone who knows grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. 

[Duke2801]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Yes, I watched previous seasons...and?  I'm supposed to root for Kathryn now?

I don't think Kathryn's all that but the person I really can't stand is Thomas.  Thomas is a nasty piece of work.  He may send Ashley packing but they'll be another young woman following her.  Maybe that's what worries Kathryn; Thomas getting some other woman pregnant, possibly causing Kathryn's children to compete, like I said, Thomas is a nasty piece of work and I can see him causing shit like that.

No I  was simply replying to your statement about everybody else thinking Kathryn was a saint simply because she gave birth. 

I have been hard on Kathryn myself - mainly because of what she did while pregnant with her kids (Saint primarily). But I do give her kudos for turning things around. She’s no saint, or mother of the year, but she seems to be tying to overcome her demons. 

No argument from me that Thomas is scum.

[nexxie]

24 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Didn’t Whitney sleep with Katherine in those days?

Supposedly - and he used to have a girlfriend on the show too, so, even though some say he’s closeted, he at least likes to appear hetero.

I enjoy Whitney’s quirky personality - wish he was on more, but can see why he’d want to mostly avoid such crazy scenes.

[Rlb8031]

14 hours ago, hottesthw said:

I don't understand all this Kathryn love all of a sudden and actually find it quite frustrating. It's not a rumor initiated by Thomas that Kathryn did put her children in harm's way at some point and as a result, lost custody of them. A judge started that "rumor" gang, not Ashley. So someone reminding you of that may seem harsh, but it's still makes you a shitty mom who lost custody of her kids!! I don't care how many drug tests she takes, when I look at Kathryn and look at those poor kids all I feel is disgust towards her. Those kids are going thru hell because of HER actions, no-one else. And I think taking a few bad words from some nutjob is NOTHING compared to what she's put those poor babies thru the last few years. I'm literally shocked at Cam's take on this whole thing as a new mom herself. 

I wonder, when Kathryn turned her phone off for those few days and was "missing", did she miss visits with her kids? And if it wasn't her day(s), did she call them, or did she ignore them too? Because if so, just proves again, she's far from being a "real" mom. I'm sick of Kathryn and her bullshit renewed self.  She can lecture Ashley all she wants but the world knows, if Thomas dumped her and professed his love for Kathryn and invited her to live in the mansion, her bags would be packed in 3.5 seconds.

Craig and Naomi are like kids sitting at the adult table during Thanksgiving. They belong together with their high school attitudes and pouting and outbursts. Go, please, don't come back.

This show is starting to annoy me. 

Yes, Kathryn has done things that have "put her children in harm's way". So has Thomas. The playing field between the two of them has never been level and I don't understand why people try to pretend that it was. She was a twenty-year old college student who liked to party. He was a fifty year old man who liked to sleep with twenty year-olds. A lot of what has happened with the kids being taken away and the treatment of the courts was reflective of this imbalance of power. It is why 1) Thomas' ability to parent was never questioned, even though he was a regular drunken mess in the Downtown Charleston bar scene 2) Thomas' fitness as a parent was not questioned, even after he showed up on two different occasions on national television with black eyes received from fighting at bars; 3) Thomas' conviction for drug trafficking did not lead to a requirement for periodic drug tests.

As for Kathryn's behavior when she was "missing", as both the show and many people here have pointed out she did not have primary custody at this time. The one thing she did do was appear as scheduled for her time with the kids. I'm not going to fault her for not talking to her kids daily. I'm part of a blended family and none of us were in contact or expected to hear from the parent we weren't with every day, especially prior to being old enough to have cell phones. 

[Heathrowe]

6 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I know my parents used to like to party back in the day.  In fact, I know my mom dropped acid while pregnant with me because she didn't know she was pregnant yet.  Once she found out she was pregnant all nonsense ceased and those fools (my parents) grew the fuck up even though they were only 19 and 20.  It doesn't deserve accolades, it's what you should do if you decide to take on the responsibility of bringing a child into this world.

Wow, so it's not such a jump to imagine what could have happened if your birth father prosecuted your mother for custody, citing that she was taking acid while she was pregnant. What defense would your mom have had in court? Would the judge have appreciated that she stopped dropping acid once she realized she was preg? Or would she have lost custody of you? Would that have been deserved? What would your father's family have said about her, what rumors would have gone around town about her at 19?  That she was still using? That she was sleeping with her dealer?  It sounds like your mom and dad are both decent people-but can't you see how the story can change depending on who is telling it and what they want?

[SheTalksShit]

3 hours ago, Jextella said:

Ashley is beyond clueless.  Boy.  She coulda had a passbook to reality tv fame and fortune (as limited as they are) had she handled herself better.   Through her own behavior, she'll be kicked off the show and out of her rich boyfriend's life and will likely lose her job and maybe even her livelihood if her license gets yanked.  "Fool" is the best word I can think of when describing Ashley.

I am confused about the nannies too.  There was the one that Katherine wanted to go.  Is that the same one who alleged sexual misconduct? Or is it full blown rape (ugh.  Such a horrible word/thing).

She’s alleging full-blown rape. I don’t know if Thomas will end up being charged, but I believe the allegations, tbh. IDK why but I do and I can tell Cameron does, too. I think Shep might kinda believe it, too, or at least Shep believes it’s possible. 

RE: the nanny, it turns out it’s a different nanny than the one accusing T-Rav of rape. The nanny accusing T-Rav of rape is a woman named Dawn Ledwell. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5729157/Southern-Charm-star-Thomas-Ravenels-nanny-accuses-rape.html 

She says she worked for Thomas until the end of 2016, so that woulda been before Ashley came into the picture. She says she told Katherine about it while she was staying with her, though and Katherine apparently believed her and confronted Thomas about it, who then denied it. So Katherine’s known about this story for a looong time. 

[izabella]

58 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

 I’ve never seen a woman as hungry as Assley when it comes to marriage.

You must have missed season 1 when Kathryn was taking that drunk old man home to meet her parents, and both her parents and her grandmother were so approving of her planning to marry a man 30 years her senior with a prison record.  And that car ride where she told the girls she was waiting for a ring any minute now, maybe after she gets pregnant, but any minute now.

Edited July 27, 2018 by izabella

[yourmomiseasy]

40 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

But Kathryn hasn't used her illness as an excuse to defend her behaviour and I don't think anyone here has either. Kathryn has been ripped on from the start because we all saw the destructive behaviour and held her accountable to it. No one is retroactively defending her past actions in light of knowing of addiction and depression issues but what many of us are doing is not using those past behaviours to hang over her head and question the sincerity of her behaviour when our eyes and ears show us that she is certainly not the same person she was in seasons past. She's still is a work in a progress but, and I can only speak for myself, don't think we do any favours to the subject when we don't acknowledge that it is in fact an accomplishment when you can achieve sobriety and a healthy mental state to allow you to simply live with some decency. I'm really sorry that you experience those issues in your family, I can't imagine that it's easy to be part of that kind of support system, must take a lot of patience and energy to see the process through and be mindful but speaking specifically to your intolerance and what sets you off with Kathryn, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because again, I haven't taken anything she's said as an excuse for harming people. In fact, at one point when Cam was having her breakdown and was apologizing to Kathryn, Kathryn said 'it's okay, I've forgiven' and then she clarified that forgiveness for Cam isn't needed but that she's needed to forgive herself and her past. She could have taken that apology and played victim but instead, she took the moment to demonstrate that she had to atone for her own behaviour because it was largely a catalyst for how she was treated by the others. 

Kathryn may not be using it as an excuse, but it seems like in this thread and others a lot of people are using her age, mental illness, and addiction issues as an excuse for her behavior.  We'll have to just have to disagree on that.  In the same vein, I don't think Kathryn is demanding applause and adulation for finally doing the bare minimum to be a decent human being, but other people are going a bit overboard on the kadooz for it.  

28 minutes ago, Sage47 said:

I don’t think Ashley should get a pass for being a POS because she’s associated with Thomas and he “caused her to be that way”.  It is not just him, nope. She already had some serious issues. 

I recall well how Ashley gleefully chose the tiny shorts to meet Kathryn at that party. She had two choices but picked the more provacative one. Then how she hung all over Thomas and kept trying to goad Kathryn. She IS a terrible human being. No way around it 

Why shouldn't Ashley get a pass, it's being used as an excuse for Kathryn by many.

 

Maybe not deserving of a parade, but at least deserving of a pillow

 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Charmers,

People have VERY strong opinions about Kathryn.  Strong opinions are okay.  Expressing them is okay.  Attacking people who disagree with your opinions is never okay. Never. Okay.  

So let's take a beat and think about whether what we are saying meets the PTV standard of BE CIVIL.  Some may claim civility is a dying art.  Let's keep it alive on this forum.

[nexxie]

Really interesting that bit Craig said about Ashley being where Kathryn once was - it does seem that, like all predators, Thomas searches out very vulnerable prey. Creepy.

Edited July 28, 2018 by nexxie

[babyhouseman]

4 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

I thought Austen's beer was called TropHop or something? Referring to the citrus notes (or whatever) in the beer. This logo and its colors make me think of acorns. Just saying. 

Does the "King" refer to King's Street in Charleston? I have not watched all the shows if this has been mentioned. 

[Duke2801]

42 minutes ago, izabella said:

You must have missed season 1 when Kathryn was taking that drunk old man home to meet her parents, and both her parents and her grandmother were so approving of her planning to marry a man 30 years her senior with a prison record.  And that car ride where she told the girls she was waiting for a ring any minute now, maybe after she gets pregnant, but any minute now.

 

I saw season one - and actually rewatched it again not too long ago. I stil think Kathryn’s vocal hopes for a ring pale in comparison to Ashley’s desperate delusions. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Duke2801

[nexxie]

5 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

Does the "King" refer to King's Street in Charleston? I have not watched all the shows if this has been mentioned. 

Or the city itself, named after King Charles II.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Or the city itself, named after King Charles II.

Austen's view of himself perhaps?  lol

[Kiki777]

10 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Anybody else think that TRav is keeping Ashley supplied with Cocaine? Just me? He is the devil incarnate

That wouldn't surprise me at all.  It also wouldn't surprise me if he had also supplied Kathryn wih drugs so he could turn it around and use her drug usage against her to get full custody of his kids.  Not that I feel that Kathryn is an innocent victim - just that Thomas is that manipulative and evil.

The little segment about Tyson made me tear up.  That dear sweet dog being used as bait in dogfights?? That is unimaginably awful.  Good on Chelsea for have a big enough heart to take him in, and from what I see he seems very happy with her and has much love for his 'mama'.

[scrb]

It doesn't seem like Kathryn needed any prompting to get high.

She may have been in her early 20s but she was an adult.

She's going to have to take some responsibility for her behavior, even if some people watching her on a show doesn't think she needs to.

She got a mostly favorable edit this year but she's still vindictive, as we saw with Jennifer on the finale.

[sasha206]

22 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

I don't know.  I kind of felt sorry for Ashley in a way and I think Cameron was actually trying to help her.  She is a complete ass, but, she also seems scared to death of Thomas. I'll let myself out now.

In an odd way, this reunion made me feel for her too.  She really is now coming off like a woman emotionally abused, possibly physically abused.  I'm sure in order to say the things she has said to another Ashley has always been an asshole or maybe her need for fame clouded her judgement.  But she really looks and sounds like a woman eaten alive by either love for a real despicable human or he has something on HER to keep her in this relationship.  Whatever it is, she does not seem to be in a healthy place.  

[ozzy]

From where I stand , Everyone gets a second chance.  Christ gives us a second chance. If he forgives us..who among us does not deserve forgiveness?

Kathryn this season has showed tremendous grace and vulnerability. Huge strides. Yes she was a mess in the past, but who among us has not made mistakes?

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

It doesn't seem like Kathryn needed any prompting to get high.

She may have been in her early 20s but she was an adult.

She's going to have to take some responsibility for her behavior, even if some people watching her on a show doesn't think she needs to.

She got a mostly favorable edit this year but she's still vindictive, as we saw with Jennifer on the finale.

I haven't read a post yet that lets Kathryn off scot free. She absolutely had to take responsibility for her past mistakes and move on in a more positive direction. She appears to be doing that. I don't know what else she can do. She can't change her past behavior, only continue working on herself and maintaining her sobriety. 

[hottesthw]

2 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

I saw season one - and actually rewatched it again not too long ago. I stil think Kathryn’s vocal hopes for a ring pale in comparison to Ashley’s desperate delusions. 

Kathryn had not one, but two children with gross TRav, and sat on a reunion set complaining that he promised to keep her in the new lifestyle she was accustomed to (because child support wasn't enough). Sounds like an ultimate delusional golddigger to me. And I still say, if he asked tomorrow, Kathryn would fall back into TRavs bed without hesitation. 

Kathryn and Ashley are more alike than they want to admit.

[Bronzedog]

I think all of them, especially Cam, believe Thomas is guilty of the rape allegations.  That said, after Shep's "Thomas is great 90% of the time" speech, I don't think Shep thinks it's that big of a deal if Thomas is.  Something about Shep when he said that really disturbed me.  Makes me wonder what Shep is guilty of.

[Jextella]

I've always been in Katherine's court, although sometimes by a slim margin.

The thing is that we've seen different Katherine's thus far.   The last version was a strung out confused person.  The current version is a reformed person learning a bit about herself.

Next season we'll probably see yet another version of Katherine.

It might be easier for me to weigh in next season.

[ProudMary]

4 hours ago, babyhouseman said:

Does the "King" refer to King's Street in Charleston? I have not watched all the shows if this has been mentioned. 

Austen Kroll's Instagram handle is krollthewarriorking, which is most likely where the King in the King's Calling Brewing Co. comes from.

[Duke2801]

1 hour ago, hottesthw said:

Kathryn had not one, but two children with gross TRav, and sat on a reunion set complaining that he promised to keep her in the new lifestyle she was accustomed to (because child support wasn't enough). Sounds like an ultimate delusional golddigger to me. And I still say, if he asked tomorrow, Kathryn would fall back into TRavs bed without hesitation. 

Kathryn and Ashley are more alike than they want to admit.

Look you clearly despise Kathryn and that is perfectly fine by me. I’m not her bestie or her cheerleader and I’m not going to waste time bringing up counterpoints to try and convince anyone otherwise. I’ll simply say I respectfully disagree and leave it at that. 

[dosodog]

1 hour ago, Bronzedog said:

I think all of them, especially Cam, believe Thomas is guilty of the rape allegations.  That said, after Shep's "Thomas is great 90% of the time" speech, I don't think Shep thinks it's that big of a deal if Thomas is.  Something about Shep when he said that really disturbed me.  Makes me wonder what Shep is guilty of.

I understand this.  My BFF had a problem with drinking and driving.  Jail time, several times problem.  I loved her in spite of that.  I didn't condone it. She was seIfish for risking people's lives.  But ididn't ignore all of her awesome qualities. Which she did have.  Along with alcoholism. 

I couldn't just walk away from her.

Having said that.  She wasn't Thomas.  

54 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I've always been in Katherine's court, although sometimes by a slim margin.

The thing is that we've seen different Katherine's thus far.   The last version was a strung out confused person.  The current version is a reformed person learning a bit about herself.

Next season we'll probably see yet another version of Katherine.

It might be easier for me to weigh in next season.

This!  I hope the therapy she is getting does focus on her role in her life.  This was the year of "Thomas is responsible for everything".  He is to an extent.

I just think it's important for Kathryn, for her own health and happiness, to understand what and why she was okay with her life, so she has the tools to not have it happen again.

Because life change is hard. And giving up how your family "trained " you to deal with life in toxic ways is very hard.

Confession. Thanks to my dad, 50+ years later, I have to fight doing the silent treatment, rather than, in a healthy way, verbally saying why I'm upset. 

Kathryn did great this season.  But she has a lifetime ahead of her.  And eventually Thomas or her age can't get in the way of successfully handling life's crappy times.

I hope this makes sense.

[ozzy]

41 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Look you clearly despise Kathryn and that is perfectly fine by me. I’m not her bestie or her cheerleader and I’m not going to waste time bringing up counterpoints to try and convince anyone otherwise. I’ll simply say I respectfully disagree and leave it at that. 

Thank you. By the way, Kathryn is Winning.

[ozzy]

I do not get the Kathryn hate. She has clearly cleaned up her life and is on a positive track. Good for her.

She made mistakes. She is contrite and poised. Her self proclaimed motivation? Her children!. All good, y'all