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Gimme That Old Time Religion

SunnyBeBe

By SunnyBeBe
in Counting On

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thehorseofpower
thehorseofpower

I was thinking about fundie attitudes toward the pandemic last night. What's hard for me to wrap my mind around is that, on the surface, it seems like the pandemic is a tailor-made moment for Christia

Lady Edith
Lady Edith

So this nice long weekend I’m with my kiddos at our summer place. My youngest and I went to the grocery store.  A large family walked ahead of us, cutting me off and making me nearly crash into them w

ariel
ariel

I find it sad that when someone says that they are a Christian people assume they are conservative.  There are plenty of liberal Christians.  Rumor has it that Jesus was one of them.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)

Everyone's favorite evangelical financial guru, Dave Ramsey, has shown just how much Christian concern he has for his fellow man.  It seems that one of his employees has tested positive for Corona virus.  Not only did he send out an email to his employees violating that person's privacy by giving out their name; he also told them they may NOT work from home, that it is business as usual at his establishment.

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pith-in-the-wind/article/21123156/dave-ramsey-keeps-offices-stay-open-after-staffer-tests-positive?fbclid=IwAR0fTkhPjW95BvEI_S1SjpwV0lUgNPV3TEJx2iC65QoZTk2O6syG9ayWGMk

Edited by doodlebug
questionfear

questionfear

Over in the Joy and Austin topic there was a mention of ultra-Orthodox Jews and a debate about whether they are as bad as fundies with respect to forcing their views on others...

Prefacing this with I am Jewish, grew up Reform, and my grandma spent years living and working alongside the ultra-orthodox community in a kosher bakery-this is in no way, shape or form a comment on 99% of the Jewish population, and if anything I see the Hasidic as a horrific, twisted, misguided take on what is a community-focused, socially aware religion. 

The ultra-Orthodox (as in, Hasidic and similar isolated communities, not modern Orthodox which is more mainstream) are just as bad if not worse than the fundies. They don't proselytize or try to convert others, but they almost act like an invasive weed in their communities, choking out all other forms of life. They've effectively destroyed the public school systems in a number of communities, including the one where my father grew up. They get elected to school boards and use legal and questionably legal means to redirect money for public school to private yeshivas. It leads to horrific income inequality in the towns, especially in NJ and NY. What happens is the public schools lose major funding, so families who rely on the public school and can afford to move just move to a nearby town with a better school system (which is easy to do in NJ/NY) and the people who are left who can't just up and move are often the people who are working multiple jobs, struggling to make ends meet, and can't move or have the time to get involved and fight back for the school systems. 

It's absolutely awful, and they're dangerous in a different way than fundies like the Duggars. They're far more isolated, which means they don't have broad impact, but they can and do damage towns on a local level. It's honestly sad to see. 

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skatelady

skatelady

On 3/23/2020 at 10:20 AM, questionfear said:

Over in the Joy and Austin topic there was a mention of ultra-Orthodox Jews and a debate about whether they are as bad as fundies with respect to forcing their views on others...

Prefacing this with I am Jewish, grew up Reform, and my grandma spent years living and working alongside the ultra-orthodox community in a kosher bakery-this is in no way, shape or form a comment on 99% of the Jewish population, and if anything I see the Hasidic as a horrific, twisted, misguided take on what is a community-focused, socially aware religion. 

The ultra-Orthodox (as in, Hasidic and similar isolated communities, not modern Orthodox which is more mainstream) are just as bad if not worse than the fundies. They don't proselytize or try to convert others, but they almost act like an invasive weed in their communities, choking out all other forms of life. They've effectively destroyed the public school systems in a number of communities, including the one where my father grew up. They get elected to school boards and use legal and questionably legal means to redirect money for public school to private yeshivas. It leads to horrific income inequality in the towns, especially in NJ and NY. What happens is the public schools lose major funding, so families who rely on the public school and can afford to move just move to a nearby town with a better school system (which is easy to do in NJ/NY) and the people who are left who can't just up and move are often the people who are working multiple jobs, struggling to make ends meet, and can't move or have the time to get involved and fight back for the school systems. 

It's absolutely awful, and they're dangerous in a different way than fundies like the Duggars. They're far more isolated, which means they don't have broad impact, but they can and do damage towns on a local level. It's honestly sad to see. 

I assume you are talking about Rockland County in NY - I grew up there in the 1960s and early 70a, and my mother is still living and is still there. It is absolutely tragic what's happened to the Ramapo school district, and their tentacles are spreading into the Clarkstown district as well. My friends in Orange County report the same from the Kiryas Joel group.  

questionfear

questionfear

10 hours ago, skatelady said:

I assume you are talking about Rockland County in NY - I grew up there in the 1960s and early 70a, and my mother is still living and is still there. It is absolutely tragic what's happened to the Ramapo school district, and their tentacles are spreading into the Clarkstown district as well. My friends in Orange County report the same from the Kiryas Joel group.  

I was actually talking about Lakewood, NJ, but I am also familiar with what happened in Rockland...and agreed it is very tragic. I worked with an organization that was based in that area and their community was decimated by people moving out as everything shifted. I think, sadly, there's a lot of stories like this in concentrated areas. 

EAG46

EAG46

Every religion's most fundamentalist practitioners seem to share similar beliefs: The outside world is evil. Progress and science are evil. Women are second-class citizens at best.  Sex is only for procreation. Non-heterosexuality is evil. Education of children is for making sure they stay in the faith and not leave.  Never question anything the leaders say. The Holy Book is 100% the word of God and 100% right 100% of the time and 100% to be used for a guide in modern life.  

Any one that escapes this lifestyle is brave and has my respect.

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crazy8s

crazy8s

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jerry Falwell just re-opened his college campus and dormitories. He supposedly lied to the city about what he was doing.

I saw him on CNN this morning trying to explain this.

He said they were doing online classes only for all students and opened the campus/ dorms only for international students and others who had nowhere else to go. he thought maybe 1,000 students.

He also said all meals were bagged for carry out. no dining service.

not sure how much of that true, but that is what he said on CNN this morning

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Zella

Zella

(edited)

I was pleasantly surprised how my old alma mater, College of the Ozarks, reacted to the coronavirus. They're a fucking shitstorm of fundie stupidity usually, but while Missouri was dithering about whether to even close down public school districts, C of O shut down campus, even their cash cow Keeter Center. I was quite frankly astounded they gave a shit about the students in any way because that wasn't my experience while there at all.*

*This comment is directed at admin there. I had a lot of wonderful professors and work supervisors who cared very deeply about student welfare.  

Edited by Zella
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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

13 hours ago, crazy8s said:

He said they were doing online classes only for all students and opened the campus/ dorms only for international students and others who had nowhere else to go. he thought maybe 1,000 students.

He also said all meals were bagged for carry out. no dining service.

not sure how much of that true, but that is what he said on CNN this morning

That's not what he was saying the other day, when he stated that 2000 students would be coming back and implied that it would be business as usual: “I think we have a responsibility to our students—who paid to be here, who want to be here, who love it here—to give them the ability to be with their friends, to continue their studies, enjoy the room and board they’ve already paid for and to not interrupt their college life.”  

And there is apparently no effort being made to take precautions. According to Calum Best, the Student Government Association chief of staff, who has been back on campus since last Friday, other students have been offering him hugs and handshakes, and inviting him into their rooms. On social media, he has seen images of “quarantine parties” and other gatherings of more than 10 people. “They’re creating a space where students can come and be stupid,” said Best, . “There’s a general carelessness, and our leadership isn’t doing what they could be to stop that from spreading.”

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
15 hours ago, crazy8s said:

I saw him on CNN this morning trying to explain this.

He said they were doing online classes only for all students and opened the campus/ dorms only for international students and others who had nowhere else to go. he thought maybe 1,000 students.

He also said all meals were bagged for carry out. no dining service.

not sure how much of that true, but that is what he said on CNN this morning

Yeah, but all this is backtracking. Initially he had implied to local officials that it would only be people who had nowhere else to go......However, they found out that that was a lie and that what he had done initially was expansively invite all the students to come back if they wanted to.... and to order the faculty members to be available for the usual office hours etc. on campus. 

But the local officials went to the press complaining about his lie, and those local officials and quite a few other people criticized him heavily......so he backtracked....>

And now he's pretending that this is what he'd said all along. But it's not.....He's a fat liar. ... 

Quite a few of the students in the dorms are people who don't need to be there. And of course they're doing the kinds of dumb stuff invincible-feeling 19-year-olds do in a dorm. .... 

I'd bet he initially figured he'd be a great supporter of The Prez and Jesus by standing up against the hoax virus.......But he found out that the view that all this is a hoax isn't as widespread as he'd hoped.....And he also found out that the locals are able to figure out when he's bullshitting them.....😈

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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crazy8s

crazy8s

(edited)

Liberty also participated in a big multi-school wrestling tournament a week or so ago because they saw no need to cancel/not participate. Emphasizing ‘faith rather than fear"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/03/16/emphasizing-faith-rather-than-fear-college-wrestling-tournament-went/

Edited by crazy8s
added link
crazycatlady58

crazycatlady58

4 hours ago, crazy8s said:

Liberty also participated in a big multi-school wrestling tournament a week or so ago because they saw no need to cancel/not participate. Emphasizing ‘faith rather than fear"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/03/16/emphasizing-faith-rather-than-fear-college-wrestling-tournament-went/

I have a strong faith in God ( at least I think I do) however God also wants us to use common sense which means STAY AT HOME if you have a choice.

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Temperance

Temperance

A bunch of Liberty students and staff had a petition going to close Liberty and hold classes on-line.  So not everyone afflied with the collage agrees with the decision. When Jerry Falwell Jr.  was pretending to close the college, it was in response to this petition. It's ultimately Jerry Falwell Jr.'s decision to open the college or not. 

I would think possible lawsuits would close businesses. Someone gets coronavirus and a bill around 34, 000 dolllars for medical care for the virus, they'll sue.  If a few people are exposed right now and they die, the families can sure for wrongful death. That many people, there will be somebody who sues if things go wrong. If Liberty gets sued, I won't feel sorry for the university. 

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doodlebug

doodlebug

The owners of Hobby Lobby, who've already vowed to remain open despite any orders from the government, have also sent out a memo that, any sick employee will have to use up all of their vacation time and sick time and then will go unpaid if not back at work.  Also, should the national guard forcibly close a store, all of the employees will have to use up all of their PTO before Hobby Lobby will pay them 75% of their average of the preceding 6 weeks' pay.

https://www.businessinsider.com/hobby-lobby-told-managers-denied-employees-paid-sick-leave-memo-2020-3?fbclid=IwAR0I3y52JdhsMEnuaScw41GsA-5a92R30EWJxP5rJvxxVqkny4Ua9hSJ3Ds

"The district manager has said that our stores will remain open until the National Guard comes in and physically shuts the buildings down," a Hobby Lobby manager told Business Insider. 

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

That asshole founder David Green is worth an estimated $4 BILLION. I can’t bring myself to find the article again but apparently Mrs. Green “prayed on it” and God told her to keep the stores open.

Screw unto others, as they can’t screw unto you...is that how that goes?

I hope their address just moved way up on the Karma Delivery list.

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charmed1

charmed1

On 2/22/2020 at 3:24 PM, xwordfanatik said:

Forgive me if this has already been posted.  Amazon Prime is streaming a 3-part series called Gloriavale.  It's about a Fundamental Christian sect In New Zealand.  I thought it was interesting.  

Oh thank you! I love a good documentary, especially since I can’t go anywhere. May I also suggest, “MarJoe.” It’s a documentary about MarJoe Gotner who was part of a performing, traveling, grifting family of evangelists. Except MarJoe was an atheist and he only did the film to expose that whole world. Of course the film was never shown in the Bible Belt. 

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doodlebug

doodlebug

3 hours ago, crazy8s said:

I accidentally posted this in the small talk thread rather than here

from snopes on Hobby Lobby refusing to close

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hobby-lobby-coronavirus/

 

 

I'm glad to see that Hobby Lobby is obeying the rules in areas where non-essential businesses have to close.  I suspect that the owner did indeed initially consider defying such a mandate but was probably talked out of it by his legal and PR people.

The article I posted above, from Business Weekly, which details how Hobby Lobby plans to force its workers to use up all of their own PTO if they get sick or can't work due to closure, does say that BW obtained a copy of the memo from a manager at Hobby Lobby who was concerned about how management was handling the crisis.  They said they were able to verify this person's identity and employment at HL as well as verify elsewhere that the memo was real.  If anyone wants to pay to subscribe to Business Weekly, there's a link to the original memo there.

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

4 hours ago, charmed1 said:

Oh thank you! I love a good documentary, especially since I can’t go anywhere. May I also suggest, “MarJoe.” It’s a documentary about MarJoe Gotner who was part of a performing, traveling, grifting family of evangelists. Except MarJoe was an atheist and he only did the film to expose that whole world. Of course the film was never shown in the Bible Belt. 

That's a good one...I watched a year or so ago. I'd say it was quite eye-opening if I had not already seen a number of interviews/debates, etc on similar subjects. Once you fall down that rabbit hole, it's hard to take any faith-healers/psychics without a HUGE grain of salt.

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Nysha

Nysha

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

The article I posted above, from Business Weekly, which details how Hobby Lobby plans to force its workers to use up all of their own PTO if they get sick or can't work due to closure...

I work for a state college and they're doing the same thing. We have to first use up our vacation and sick leave, then borrow 80 hours of vacation and sick leave from next year, then the college will come up with 80 hours of emergency leave, then we're on our own.

crazycatlady58

crazycatlady58

22 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I work for a state college and they're doing the same thing. We have to first use up our vacation and sick leave, then borrow 80 hours of vacation and sick leave from next year, then the college will come up with 80 hours of emergency leave, then we're on our own.

Our company said we could use our PTO ( paid time off) or use what is called work share, which I think is unemployment you can get when your work hours are reduced. They suggested we use PTO but said we could do what was best for us.

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Lisa418722

Lisa418722

12 hours ago, Nysha said:

I work for a state college and they're doing the same thing. We have to first use up our vacation and sick leave, then borrow 80 hours of vacation and sick leave from next year, then the college will come up with 80 hours of emergency leave, then we're on our own.

Our time off has always been called PTO.  Period. The end.  Now all the sudden it's PTO/sick leave.  I guess people have been asking about sick time.  The first five years of employment we only get 16 days a year - 10.33 (or is it 10.67) hours a month.  This week is April so even if you haven't taken any time off that's only a little over one week so far this year.  If you get this, you won't get paid for the entire time off, could possibly lose your job because you have taken all your time off, or have to go without any pay.  We are expected to work from home, but they don't want us to go in to get our work - it is a very paper intensive job.  I was supposed to go on vacation in May and right now I feel like I'm still going to take the time off even if it means sitting around home and staring at the walls.  I will need the mental health days off. 

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awaken

awaken

This might be posted in another thread already, but just read this horribly infuriating NYT article about Falwell keeping Liberty U open and some students there flouting social distancing rules as a conspiracy against Christians- 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/us/politics/coronavirus-liberty-university-falwell.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR0DV7vjOlimJQ5Z0f8aKLAMxnt8fXOVZlnOCbWWWKCb_mzPMmuOLqpb-KQ&fbclid=IwAR0gDLSl0JR3uEgvVPsyFXcKacfZb_jBeqPPnPPiHMjwXync5fsnnNOdMVI&fbclid=IwAR22pyoT_eGfyn7-Eh-SfxJb2fzInj1mTsMoCxaymiG28AIGApNk4zhPK-8

 

“So Mr. Falwell — a staunch ally of President Trump and an influential voice in the evangelical world — reopened the university last week, igniting a firestorm. As of Friday, Dr. Eppes said, nearly a dozen Liberty students were sick with symptoms that suggested Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus. Three were referred to local hospital centers for testing. Another eight were told to self-isolate.”

 

 

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)

Evangelical pastor in Tampa arrested for violating stay at home rules and holding church services.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/florida-pastor-arrested-river-church/index.html

His justification?  The state has no right to call churchgoing 'non-essential' (translation: he wants that collection plate passed) and it is a violation of his constitutional right to freedom of religion and speech.  He claims he will only close the doors of the church when the rapture starts.  Of course, that's easily shot down by the compelling interest of the state in public safety.  

Another nitwit pastor in Louisiana who encouraged the congregation to crowd together and laid his hands on a bunch of folks. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-church-defies-covid-19-order-holds-sunday-services/ar-BB11SYNG?ocid=spartandhp

Edited by doodlebug
andromeda331

andromeda331

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Evangelical pastor in Tampa arrested for violating stay at home rules and holding church services.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/florida-pastor-arrested-river-church/index.html

His justification?  The state has no right to call churchgoing 'non-essential' (translation: he wants that collection plate passed) and it is a violation of his constitutional right to freedom of religion and speech.  He claims he will only close the doors of the church when the rapture starts.  Of course, that's easily shot down by the compelling interest of the state in public safety.  

Another nitwit pastor in Louisiana who encouraged the congregation to crowd together and laid his hands on a bunch of folks. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/louisiana-church-defies-covid-19-order-holds-sunday-services/ar-BB11SYNG?ocid=spartandhp

Good! I'm glad they threw him in jail. That's exactly what they need to do to people who refuse to comply and are putting others at risk. 

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