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Gimme That Old Time Religion

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The coroner has already performed an autopsy.  Results are pending unless they've been released this morning.

I especially loathe "churches" like this.  When grandson's great-grandma died, another kid in pre-school who attended a similar church told him God would raise great-grandma from the dead.  I ended up explaining false religious belief to a four year old.  

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54 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Maybe the kid isn't dead and they're keeping her out of sight as a money making scheme.  Then, when she is 'raised', they can really rake in the cash.  If she is dead, how did she die? 

That was my first thought, too -- the kid's not dead, she ends up being "resurrected," the church sees its membership climb, the parents make a fortune touring her all over the world, and all over social media people start praying to raise their loved ones from the dead, too. But Buzzfeed did confirm with the coroner's office that the child was, in fact, dead. 

My suspicion is that the girl was sick and the parents didn't take her to the doctor and chose instead to "pray" for her. 

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56 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Apparently, Bethel church in California is known for being scam-tastic.  The members believe in faith healing and miracles and that people can be trained to perform these things.  It actually has a school for 'supernatural ministry' that purports to teach students how to heal and raise the dead.  Sort of like Hogwarts for fundies.

According to the parents' story online, their healthy 2 year old simply died in her sleep last Saturday.  2 is way too old for SIDS which occurs in kids under a year old.  From their story, it appears she was already dead when they found her, so, even if the EMT's were called and she was transported to a hospital and pronounced dead in the ER; the 'expenses' surrounding that would be no more than a few thousand bucks if these people don't have insurance.  She was eventually taken to the coroner's office where she remains to this time as the parents plead with God to raise her from the dead.  What 'unforeseeable expenses' would total up to $95,000+ in this scenario? They're expecting a biblical healing which means she wakes up and is perfectly fine.  If she doesn't wake up, even a pretty elaborate funeral isn't going to be more than maybe 10 grand.

I am somewhat suspicious of the circumstances here and wish there was some independent corroboration of the events.  Maybe the kid isn't dead and they're keeping her out of sight as a money making scheme.  Then, when she is 'raised', they can really rake in the cash.  If she is dead, how did she die?  Two year olds do not die in their sleep and the coroner would be performing an autopsy and the police might be investigating.  Was this child neglected and abused?  Did she have some childhood illness that could have been prevented with a vaccine or treated with antibiotics and her parents didn't do those things?  If she is dead, I think the parents are attempting to deflect attention away from whatever the awful truth might be.

 

 

LOL at "Hogwarts for Fundies"! 🤣

The line between prayer and attempted witchcraft seems awfully blurry sometimes.

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8 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

That was my first thought, too -- the kid's not dead, she ends up being "resurrected," the church sees its membership climb, the parents make a fortune touring her all over the world, and all over social media people start praying to raise their loved ones from the dead, too. But Buzzfeed did confirm with the coroner's office that the child was, in fact, dead. 

My suspicion is that the girl was sick and the parents didn't take her to the doctor and chose instead to "pray" for her. 

I did see Buzzfeed after I commented, not sure how reliable they are but surely they would not have said they checked if they hadn't.

I have the same feeling that you do about the death; there was something the parents could have or should have done (or not done) that contributed to her death and that is at least part of the reason the parents are trying to point people in a different direction.

So, an autopsy was done, but still the parents are expecting resurrection?  Even showier than Jesus, in that case.  My heart breaks for the poor little one and I hope she didn't suffer too much.

I wonder how long these parents are going to wait for little Olive to be raised from the dead?  Mom talked about Jesus rising on the third day and we're well past that now.  At some point, I would think the coroner's office is going to step in and bury the little one with or without mom and dad's consent.

27 minutes ago, Absolom said:

The coroner has already performed an autopsy.  Results are pending unless they've been released this morning.

I would expect it would be weeks before the autopsy report is completed unless she had obvious trauma or a previously diagnosed fatal illness.  If she died from infection, for example, they're going to do cultures and look at all of the major organs for signs of injury due to it and that takes quite a while.  If the exact cause of death isn't obvious from the autopsy, they are also going to send tissue samples for toxicology which generally takes weeks to months to complete

Edited by doodlebug
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1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Nah, at least one of the Big 5 would eat up this chicks's story if there was at least some kernel of truth to it.  Memoir is a tricky genre where the book never has to be 100% accurate including Educated.  I read that one and could see the publisher's manipulations shining through the text.  But, memoir is all about one person's memory of specific events and if the writer's interpretation is off, it is allowed.  

Agreed--and they were careful to clarify that in the preface of Educated. It is interesting to me that some of her brothers have spoken out and said that, though they don't agree with all of her takes, they do say Tara was badly mistreated by her family. And her parents' denunciation of her denies things she never said or accused them of. LOL So, I think the general gist of her story and that that is the way she perceives those events is accurate, even if some of the details are not. 

So, I think the book passed enough fact-checking muster that nobody feared a libel lawsuit. 

The AMA lady, though, is certainly making some pretty explosive allegations that a preface talking about differing interpretations of events would not cover. 

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2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Agreed--and they were careful to clarify that in the preface of Educated. It is interesting to me that some of her brothers have spoken out and said that, though they don't agree with all of her takes, they do say Tara was badly mistreated by her family. And her parents' denunciation of her denies things she never said or accused them of. LOL So, I think the general gist of her story and that that is the way she perceives those events is accurate, even if some of the details are not. 

So, I think the book passed enough fact-checking muster that nobody feared a libel lawsuit. 

The AMA lady, though, is certainly making some pretty explosive allegations that a preface talking about differing interpretations of events would not cover. 

I read it, too, and thought that Tara was very upfront in discussing which of her memories were corroborated by her other siblings and which had memories of events that differed from hers.  Memory is a funny thing and most of us have some childhood memories that are partially remembered and partially imagined; but Tara's book paints a rather consistent pattern of thought and behavior on the part of her parents which makes me think she got the important stuff right, even if some of the details were not precise.  Certainly, her siblings who also managed to escape their parents' influence agree with her on the major points.

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6 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I read it, too, and thought that Tara was very upfront in discussing which of her memories were corroborated by her other siblings and which had memories of events that differed from hers.  Memory is a funny thing and most of us have some childhood memories that are partially remembered and partially imagined; but Tara's book paints a rather consistent pattern of thought and behavior on the part of her parents which makes me think she got the important stuff right, even if some of the details were not precise.  Certainly, her siblings who also managed to escape their parents' influence agree with her on the major points.

Yes, I thought so too--and that seemed very credible and believable to me. My brother and I both also have very different memories of some aspects of our childhood while still agreeing on the basics. What really sealed it to me was her parents' response. Just textbook gaslighting in action. 

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15 hours ago, Absolom said:

I think GEML was just a garden variety liar.  She left after people began picking at her lies.

You mean she didn’t move to Scotland where there is no internet? 

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26 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I read it, too, and thought that Tara was very upfront in discussing which of her memories were corroborated by her other siblings and which had memories of events that differed from hers.  Memory is a funny thing and most of us have some childhood memories that are partially remembered and partially imagined; but Tara's book paints a rather consistent pattern of thought and behavior on the part of her parents which makes me think she got the important stuff right, even if some of the details were not precise.  Certainly, her siblings who also managed to escape their parents' influence agree with her on the major points.

 

18 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes, I thought so too--and that seemed very credible and believable to me. My brother and I both also have very different memories of some aspects of our childhood while still agreeing on the basics. What really sealed it to me was her parents' response. Just textbook gaslighting in action. 

I will say that most memoirs are as "true" as the genre allows them to be.  There are outliers (looking at you James Frey), but publishers are not going to print books that are easily debunked.  I did read one of Tara's brother's Amazon review of the book, and he did back up most of what she said.  I don't doubt that Tara's parents were abusive especially her father, and her brother is a piece of work with a verifiable arrest record; but, I hate that anything was added to the story to make it sell more.  I do believe that someone at her publisher did encourage her to make some of the passages read more harrowing that what really happened.  I work in books and read enough of them to know this happens.  It was unnecessary, but what is a debut author supposed to do?  The book was a huge hit and would have been even without the interference.  

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21 hours ago, BetyBee said:

 

I did feel that she didn't clarify what exactly JB's thoughts are on the marriages he makes for his kids. She repeatedly said that the Duggs don't have status for inter IBLP marriages. But she also made it sound like Pa Keller has achieved higher status marriages for his kids. I don't really think so. Esther is married to a fool. Anna is married to a sex pest and Nathan is dipping into the Rodrigues pool. None of that sounds to me like they are moving up the fundy ladder.

He didn't really do a very good job of it, did he? 

Edited by libgirl2

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9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

I will say that most memoirs are as "true" as the genre allows them to be.  There are outliers (looking at you James Frey), but publishers are not going to print books that are easily debunked.  I did read one of Tara's brother's Amazon review of the book, and he did back up most of what she said.  I don't doubt that Tara's parents were abusive especially her father, and her brother is a piece of work with a verifiable arrest record; but, I hate that anything was added to the story to make it sell more.  I do believe that someone at her publisher did encourage her to make some of the passages read more harrowing that what really happened.  I work in books and read enough of them to know this happens.  It was unnecessary, but what is a debut author supposed to do?  The book was a huge hit and would have been even without the interference.  

I work in editing, and I think an editor is more likely to reel an author in than encourage flights of fantasy, especially one working for a reputable publisher. In fact, that preface about memory seems more like the urging of an editor (and likely legal counsel for the publisher) than anything. I have recommended something similar to authors. 

So, I think if there was exaggeration that went beyond differing memories, that's Tara and not her editor or publisher. 

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5 hours ago, emma675 said:

Was wanderwoman the one who claimed to have a sick baby and a husband who left her during the course of her stay here? And she started a GoFundMe to help with medical expenses? That was the first time I was ever caught up in an internet con and I was fascinated (and weirdly excited that I finally saw one first hand, lol).

I, too, read the AMA and it made me sad, but I was also skeptical of some of the details (namely, the stuff about Gil Bates and the stats about family rapes). I'm sure some of it touches on reality and that makes me shudder, but some of it is too crazy to be real (I hope). 

It does seem far fetched. There was a throwaway line the poster used about watching the show and continuing to support the Duggars by watching. 

It's something I keep going back and forth on. In a way, following these folks is keeping the show on the air. Ugh. Decisions, decisions. 

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5 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

That was my first thought, too -- the kid's not dead, she ends up being "resurrected," the church sees its membership climb, the parents make a fortune touring her all over the world, and all over social media people start praying to raise their loved ones from the dead, too. But Buzzfeed did confirm with the coroner's office that the child was, in fact, dead. 

My suspicion is that the girl was sick and the parents didn't take her to the doctor and chose instead to "pray" for her. 

I’ve been engrossed in this #wakeupolive movement since it began.  The child hadn’t been sick.  Apparently the parents had gone out for the night and left both children at home with a sitter.  When the parents got home I guess they went in to check on the kids, who were already in bed asleep.  They found Olive in her bed, not breathing.  The police made a statement saying that they don’t suspect foul play, so either the child had some type of medical condition that had yet to be discovered (heart/lungs/brain/etc) or it was a SIDS death.  I suspect the latter.  BTW, I heard this info from a well-known Christian singer who I follow on IG.  I assume (yeah, I know) that she knows what she’s talking about.
ETA:  SIDS only occurs in children age 1 or younger, according to the sources I looked at.  I’m almost sure that it used to be age 2 and under (years ago).  It will be interesting to know what killed this child but regardless, it’s a heartbreaking loss, and I can’t imagine the pain that these parents are experiencing.

Edited by farmgal4

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4 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

That was my first thought, too -- the kid's not dead, she ends up being "resurrected," the church sees its membership climb, the parents make a fortune touring her all over the world, and all over social media people start praying to raise their loved ones from the dead, too. But Buzzfeed did confirm with the coroner's office that the child was, in fact, dead. 

My suspicion is that the girl was sick and the parents didn't take her to the doctor and chose instead to "pray" for her. 

The police have confirmed that the child died nearly a week ago.

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6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Over at the Bethel mega-church in California, the two-year old daughter of a church member died. Very sad, right? Well, now the parents and the church are asking people to pray for the child's resurrection via a viral social media campaign and the parents would like to have $100,000 of the public's money for "unforeseeable expenses." 

These people are lunatics.

In the parent’s defense, they didn’t start the GoFundMe account.

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The niece of one of my nephews died, out of the blue, aged just about five, a couple of years ago, of a brain aneurism. Apparently those don't much discriminate as to age. If something like that happened while she was asleep, I doubt it would wake her. 😥

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1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

The niece of one of my nephews died, out of the blue, aged just about five, a couple of years ago, of a brain aneurism. Apparently those don't much discriminate as to age. If something like that happened while she was asleep, I doubt it would wake her. 😥

There are some rare conditions where a seemingly healthy person, even a child, goes to sleep and doesn't wake up, but they are very rare.  I do feel for her parents, no matter what happened, they are undoubtedly suffering.  If her death is somehow related to their religious belief in faith healing rather than modern medical care, they are still going to be devastated.

.Even if they didn't start the GoFundMe; they could have asked that whoever did either stop or decrease the amount requested.  They're seemingly are aware of the account and approve of it.  There is no explanation as to why the goal is set at $100,000 or why that amount is needed which adds to the aura of shadiness around the whole scenario.

I hope that anyone who contributes to it has checked it out and knows where the money is going.  I have started a GoFundMe for a friend and part of setting it up included getting her involved to directly deposit the money to her bank account.  If the person who opened the account is less than honest, the money may never reach the parents.  BTW, the GoFundMe I set up was to help a friend cover extra expenses from cancer treatment and we asked for $5000 and raised a little more than that.

Edited by doodlebug
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I had some doubts about Educated when I read it.  This goes back to another autobiography I read written by a physically disabled woman who I actually knew for the first years of her life.  I played with her sisters, was in and out of her house, and remembered her many siblings taking her around the neighborhood in a wagon so she could be around the other kids even though she couldn't participate.  She is currently alienated from her entire family except for one brother--which is unfortunate because I remember them as being a fine family.  Her story painted them as pretty horrible people (not as bad as Tara's though) and I just have trouble seeing that.  

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10 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Over at the Bethel mega-church in California, the two-year old daughter of a church member died. Very sad, right? Well, now the parents and the church are asking people to pray for the child's resurrection via a viral social media campaign and the parents would like to have $100,000 of the public's money for "unforeseeable expenses." 

These people are lunatics.

The child was a little doll (the picture the newspapers are going with is clearly one of the worst available; maybe they think it's more controversial if readers think she's wearing Baby Amish garb 24/7); and thus I certainly understand their impulses.

However, I wonder if it's possible that when she doesn't get brought back to life 🙄, that it will be a big and much-needed jolt of disillusionment to the church that eventually leads to its cultish demise.

https://www.newsweek.com/church-raising-100000-raise-child-dead-1478511

Quote

Bethel congregants have previously turned to the power of prayer to cure ailments. The church has maintained a "healing rooms ministry," and Johnson claimed that brain tumors and other diseases were cured there.

One of Bethel's more controversial initiatives is the "Dead Raising Team," founded by a graduate of the school's School of Supernatural Ministry. The volunteer groups tag along with first responders and attempt to pray for deceased individuals to come back to life. According to their website, they have "brought about 15 resurrections amidst the 60 teams worldwide."

 

Edited by queenanne
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The things folks do in the name of religion are sad, scary, laughable and maddening. 

I just bookmarked an article about an up and coming Jubilee church that's replacing a Baptist church that lost most of it's parishioners. I think the headline said it's based on love and unity, but a quick glance at the article mentioned money. 

I really have a hard time with religions that allow young children to die when a medical intervention could have easily saved their lives. I know for me a least, my mama bear gene would override any belief system in a heartbeat.

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4 hours ago, queenanne said:

The child was a little doll (the picture the newspapers are going with is clearly one of the worst available; maybe they think it's more controversial if readers think she's wearing Baby Amish garb 24/7); and thus I certainly understand their impulses.

However, I wonder if it's possible that when she doesn't get brought back to life 🙄, that it will be a big and much-needed jolt of disillusionment to the church that eventually leads to its cultish demise.

https://www.newsweek.com/church-raising-100000-raise-child-dead-1478511

The picture in the newspaper has to have originated from her parents, it’s not the newspaper’s fault the kid was dressed in an odd outfit. Either it was posted somewhere on public social media or the parents provided it to the media when the story became public. Either way, they can only publish photos made available to them.

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Ok, I know I am one of the odd ones here as I am a Christian and I do believe that God's still works miracles. Having said that I can promise you that He will not raise that baby from the dead. The entire thing just feels wrong. They are making Baby Jesus cry and for some reason it just seems worse at this time of year.

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1 hour ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Ok, I know I am one of the odd ones here as I am a Christian and I do believe that God's still works miracles. Having said that I can promise you that He will not raise that baby from the dead. The entire thing just feels wrong. They are making Baby Jesus cry and for some reason it just seems worse at this time of year.

You're not that odd, many of us here are Christians.  And you're certainly not alone in believing in miracles nor in thinking that these parents and that child are not going to get one.  Amongst other things, I don't think God appreciates people who publicize the specific miracle they're expecting and then want 6 figures worth of donations for 'unforeseeable expenses' as part of the miraculous happening.  God prefers to be a bit subtler about these things, in my experience.

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Not sure if this was said before but maybe Olive's parents are waiting for a Christmas miracle -- for Olive to come back to them on Christmas  day. 

I didn't read any of the newspaper articles.  How old is Olive's sibling? 

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20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I did see Buzzfeed after I commented, not sure how reliable they are but surely they would not have said they checked if they hadn't.

I have the same feeling that you do about the death; there was something the parents could have or should have done (or not done) that contributed to her death and that is at least part of the reason the parents are trying to point people in a different direction.

So, an autopsy was done, but still the parents are expecting resurrection?  Even showier than Jesus, in that case.  My heart breaks for the poor little one and I hope she didn't suffer too much.

I wonder how long these parents are going to wait for little Olive to be raised from the dead?  Mom talked about Jesus rising on the third day and we're well past that now.  At some point, I would think the coroner's office is going to step in and bury the little one with or without mom and dad's consent.

I would expect it would be weeks before the autopsy report is completed unless she had obvious trauma or a previously diagnosed fatal illness.  If she died from infection, for example, they're going to do cultures and look at all of the major organs for signs of injury due to it and that takes quite a while.  If the exact cause of death isn't obvious from the autopsy, they are also going to send tissue samples for toxicology which generally takes weeks to months to complete

I hope this story doesn't get buried and forgotten.  Will the autopsy report be made public or I that a private thing.  I am very curious if the parents neglected to take the child to the doctor when ill and just prayed instead.

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47 minutes ago, louannems said:

I hope this story doesn't get buried and forgotten.  Will the autopsy report be made public or I that a private thing.  I am very curious if the parents neglected to take the child to the doctor when ill and just prayed instead.

It appears that Olive's parents are starting to face reality:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article238612563.html

Quote

“Here is where we are: Olive hasn’t been raised. The breakthrough we have sought hasn’t come,” Bethel Music wrote in the post. “And so, we are moving towards a memorial service and celebration of her life.”

I don't think the coroner's report will be made public unless there is some sort of criminal investigation or charges filed.  So, no news is good news, IMO.

Quote
1 hour ago, Barb23 said:

Not sure if this was said before but maybe Olive's parents are waiting for a Christmas miracle -- for Olive to come back to them on Christmas  day. 

I didn't read any of the newspaper articles.  How old is Olive's sibling? 

 

Olive's sister looks to be a couple years older based on photos that were posted, although they didn't actually identify the other child, so it might not have been her.

As noted above, it looks like they're not expecting a Christmas miracle.  At one point, the father did suggest she might rise on the third day like Jesus, but that is long gone now.

Edited by doodlebug
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I'm not religious at all and I believe in miracles, but I also 'believe' in tragedies. Unexplainable events occur all the time. Where I veer off course is I'm unsure that we can make a miracle happen.

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9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not religious at all and I believe in miracles, but I also 'believe' in tragedies. Unexplainable events occur all the time. Where I veer off course is I'm unsure that we can make a miracle happen.

It's a terrible tradedy that their seemingly healthy child died suddenly. But No One, in the history of billions of people who have died, has anyone ever risen from the dead.

Death is just  part of life.  People are constantly dying somewhere. Not to be callous but why does this family think they are any different?  Even in their weird church, people die and don't get raised up.

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33 minutes ago, louannems said:

It's a terrible tradedy that their seemingly healthy child died suddenly. But No One, in the history of billions of people who have died, has anyone ever risen from the dead.

Death is just  part of life.  People are constantly dying somewhere. Not to be callous but why does this family think they are any different?  Even in their weird church, people die and don't get raised up.

But their particular church has an actual 'ministry' devoted to teaching people how to heal others and even raise them from the dead.  And Olive's mother happens to be one of the leaders of this particular group.  

From what I read, the members who have been trained to heal and raise the dead sometimes  actually chase along behind paramedics to medical emergencies where they pray for healing or even for resurrection for the victim while the paramedics work  and then claim success if the paramedics are able to revive the victim.

A couple years ago, the child of one of their bigwigs became desperately ill with an E. coli infection and the church summoned all of their healing peeps and had them gather round to do a healing ceremony.  They've posted quite a bit about how they were able to heal him just as Christ healed in the Bible, while usually conveniently forgetting to mention that the child was airlifted to a major children's hospital where he was admitted to intensive care and given all of the best medical care including a ventilator to help him breath and dialysis when his kidneys failed.  The little boy did survive, but, I don't recall Jesus needing the ICU and medical technology to heal people and, while the child did recover from a very serious infection, he is not unique, other kids have, too.  The kid's name is Jaxon Taylor and there are plenty of online stories if you search him.

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4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

But their particular church has an actual 'ministry' devoted to teaching people how to heal others and even raise them from the dead.  And Olive's mother happens to be one of the leaders of this particular group.  

From what I read, the members who have been trained to heal and raise the dead sometimes  actually chase along behind paramedics to medical emergencies where they pray for healing or even for resurrection for the victim while the paramedics work  and then claim success if the paramedics are able to revive the victim.

A couple years ago, the child of one of their bigwigs became desperately ill with an E. coli infection and the church summoned all of their healing peeps and had them gather round to do a healing ceremony.  They've posted quite a bit about how they were able to heal him just as Christ healed in the Bible, while usually conveniently forgetting to mention that the child was airlifted to a major children's hospital where he was admitted to intensive care and given all of the best medical care including a ventilator to help him breath and dialysis when his kidneys failed.  The little boy did survive, but, I don't recall Jesus needing the ICU and medical technology to heal people and, while the child did recover from a very serious infection, he is not unique, other kids have, too.  The kid's name is Jaxon Taylor and there are plenty of online stories if you search him.

There’s a YouTube video that Bethel made/posted that summarizes what happened to Jaxon Taylor.  It’s only 11:00 long, if anyone’s interested in watching it.

FYI:  Bethel has made a statement that they and the parents are no longer expecting the resurrection of Olive.  Funeral plans are in the works.  I’m curious to know what happened that caused them to come to that decision.  Do the authorities (coroner/judge/etc) have the right to make someone bury or cremate a body after a certain length of time?

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I am a Christian and I absolutely believe in miracles.  When I was six weeks old the pediatrician "thought" he heard a murmur and sent me to a teaching hospital in the area.  Thankfully the cardiologist that took my case figured out what was wrong and put me on a medication that was an experimental drug then.  He did tell my parents he didn't think I would live to ten years old.  I am definitely older than that (as in perimenopausal age LOL).  My parents prayed, but they also took me to the doctor. 
When I think about resurrection, Jesus resurrected Lazarus and then He was resurrected.  I may be missing any others, but those are the two that I can think of.  My heart breaks for these parents, but I hope they can find support from people not so involved in this "church."  I would be afraid they would make me feel like my faith isn't strong enough and that is why my child wasn't resurrected. 

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The AMA writer also mentioned the TTH, which made me figure they were a reader/writer here (do they use TTH anywhere else?).  That's a term that originated on TWoP, and I don't know if it's in common use.

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I always wondered why they named it the Tinker Toy House when the building of it showed it's much more like a toy Erector Set.

11 hours ago, Fosca said:

The AMA writer also mentioned the TTH, which made me figure they were a reader/writer here (do they use TTH anywhere else?).  That's a term that originated on TWoP, and I don't know if it's in common use.

If the writer isn't a poster here, they for sure read here.

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On 12/22/2019 at 9:08 AM, GeeGolly said:

I always wondered why they named it the Tinker Toy House when the building of it showed it's much more like a toy Erector Set.

If the writer isn't a poster here, they for sure read here.

TTH is also used on Reddit.

And I know Erector Set refers to those awesome building kits, but can we not discuss anything close to that in relation to JB and his offspring? 🤢

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Have they buried the Bethel girl yet? 

Just an addendum but I have spent the last several days rooting around in archived pages of the truth about ruth and am stunned at the sheer extent of the lying razing ruth did as other alteregos. I remember reading the ruth stuff a couple of years ago before because what she claimed about libraries always set off my hinky meter and stuck in my mind, but I was not aware of the hijinks under other usernames besides wanderwoman. 

And after that trip down the rabbit hole, I did notice the ama poster uses part of one of ruth's alterego usernames in her reddit username. Could be coincidence, but it did give me pause. 

Also I have to post a retraction. I do remember being annoyed my wanderwoman, as I stated on here, but I found my first post in small talk about her and I don't indicate that feeling at all. I was just stunned. I think the annoyance I feel now is what I have internalized and apply retroactively in my mind. In any event, I felt duty-bound to clarify!

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Do you guys think that Jim Bob knows he is a fraud, or does he really believe he's a devote christian? We recognize that he follows money, power, and total control over the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but does he?

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6 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Do you guys think that Jim Bob knows he is a fraud, or does he really believe he's a devote christian? We recognize that he follows money, power, and total control over the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, but does he?

That's a really good question, and I honestly don't know. 

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Good discussion point. I believe they truly believe they are amazing Christians, very close with god, and highly favored. 

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13 hours ago, Zella said:

Have they buried the Bethel girl yet? 

Just an addendum but I have spent the last several days rooting around in archived pages of the truth about ruth and am stunned at the sheer extent of the lying razing ruth did as other alteregos. I remember reading the ruth stuff a couple of years ago before because what she claimed about libraries always set off my hinky meter and stuck in my mind, but I was not aware of the hijinks under other usernames besides wanderwoman. 

And after that trip down the rabbit hole, I did notice the ama poster uses part of one of ruth's alterego usernames in her reddit username. Could be coincidence, but it did give me pause. 

Also I have to post a retraction. I do remember being annoyed my wanderwoman, as I stated on here, but I found my first post in small talk about her and I don't indicate that feeling at all. I was just stunned. I think the annoyance I feel now is what I have internalized and apply retroactively in my mind. In any event, I felt duty-bound to clarify!

I am usually a complete bleeding heart, but for whatever reason wanderwoman always annoyed me here! 

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I remember Wanderwoman. I was new to this forum (actually any forum) and I believed her in the beginning. Toward the end I had some doubt. Then the mother-daughter duo came in and verified she was fake.

I remember telling the story to my kids and they were like, mom finally discovered the internet.

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12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I remember Wanderwoman. I was new to this forum (actually any forum) and I believed her in the beginning. Toward the end I had some doubt. Then the mother-daughter duo came in and verified she was fake.

I remember telling the story to my kids and they were like, mom finally discovered the internet.

Yeah, I had no reason not to believe her at first. It got to be a bit much when she claimed that her husband had left her in the midst of everything. I know, sadly, that there are people out there who will do just that, but in her case there was something about it that seemed "off". And then her discovering that she had a rare bone cancer immediately afterward...Yeah, I know people do sometimes have extraordinary runs of bad luck, but when it's someone you only "know" from online posts, credibility gets stretched. And hers finally snapped as far as I was concerned.

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IIRC I was suckered by WW too. And I actually donated to a GFM set up by another poster around here (that includes TWoP, not sure when it all happened) who conned us.

Yes, welcome to the Innernetz, indeed. I know I'm vulnerable on sites like this because I sign on as a leisure time activity, to chat and snark mostly about TV shows. Maybe someday I'll learn to keep my bullshit detector turned on and tuned up when I'm hanging out here. 

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Yep, I got snookered by Wanderwoman and got a PM telling me she was a fake.  I also donated to the GFM for the woman who claimed she needed $$ for her grandsons - something about their school.  And then she was gone...

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2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Yep, I got snookered by Wanderwoman and got a PM telling me she was a fake.  I also donated to the GFM for the woman who claimed she needed $$ for her grandsons - something about their school.  And then she was gone...

I was fooled by WanderWoman too- until the husband suddenly left. Never donated money though! There have been a few in the Small Talk thread since then who have rang alarm bells for me (though oddly not for others!), including the one you mention. I suspect there may still be a couple either working a long con or just in desperate need of attention, but the majority of people in that thread are sweet, genuine people. I mostly lurk since WanderWoman though, because that was a wake up call for me about sharing personal information.  

Coming back around to the topic a bit...I finally got around to reading the AMA and it was disturbing! But FJ debunked it? Can anyone point me to where that was discussed? Since they rearranged over there, I can't find anything. 

Also have it ever been determined if most of the Duggars are still home churching? Seems weird we never see posts about going to church from Jessa or Joe (for example). 

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The Duggars attend Pa Caldwell's church, have since Joshgate. I'm sure Kendra and Joe also attend there. It's never been established where Benessa attend church.

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2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

The Duggars attend Pa Caldwell's church, have since Joshgate. I'm sure Kendra and Joe also attend there. It's never been established where Benessa attend church.

What is Caldwell's church? I didn't realize he had a church of his own or that the Duggars attended it, though I knew he was a pastor. I bet you're right Kendra and Joe attend too. It would raise eyebrows not to.

 

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