S02.E03: Lisbon

[spottedreptile]

I find Philip very difficult to swallow in this show but have to hand it to Matt Smith making him so irritating but compelling as well. The cast on The Crown are superb and you can tell they really enjoy their roles and believe in what the show is doing with them. 

As for Ggalina, it was creepy seeing the dancer making all that eye contact with the Queen during her solo sequence. Seemed to confirm there was some sort of relationship there if she was so overt about it during her performance. Did the show really imply they were lovers? I must have missed that bit, sometimes it's  hard to keep up with all the innuendo, which is why I love this show because you can watch it over and over and find new stuff each time. 

[Megan]

2 hours ago, spottedreptile said:

 

As for Ggalina, it was creepy seeing the dancer making all that eye contact with the Queen during her solo sequence.

That was really weird... there is no way the ballerina would be able to see the queen with lights and what not. I guess she'd know where the Queen's box was though.

[humbleopinion]

 Phillip is carrying a framed photo of another woman in his briefcase.

QE can jump to conclusion that there was some kind of extraneous relationship going on...but she chose to not confront Phillip.

  She went to the ballet to see her rival for her husband's affections....was she sending a signal to the ballerina that she was clueless about her affair with Phillip or indicating to the ballerina that she knows and declined to meet her after the performance.

[Ceindreadh]

I hadn’t realized until this episode that wasn’t always ‘Prince’ Philip, but merely a Duke who would have been outranked by any Prince or Princess or (former) Queen of the realm. 

In some ways, it was a bit unfair. A female consort (Queen Mary, the Queen Mother) if crowned alongside their husband would have the title of Queen and be second only to the King in order of precedence. But Philip wasn’t given that status when Elizabeth was crowned and in the interests of equality, that’s when he should have been made a Prince. 

[SeanC]

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Yeah, that part was problematic - which is something that makes me occasionally feel uneasy about the show: the mix of fact and fiction is so seamless that there's a real danger people take it as documentary (on a subconscious level). That's not going to happen with 'Victoria' - for better or worse.

Sometimes when watching this show I wonder what a version of The Crown that was more in the style of British period dramas about more remote eras would be like.  In that version of the show, Lascelles and Adeane probably murder Eileen to keep a lid on things.

[Atlanta]

3 hours ago, Megan said:

That was really weird... there is no way the ballerina would be able to see the queen with lights and what not. I guess she'd know where the Queen's box was though.

As someone who has been on stage, there's no way she would have known. You can't really see the crowd except for up close.

[Abbagirl]

I admit I was quite surprised at the ‘Prince Philip’ investiture development. I thought I was quite well-versed in the title stuff.  

He was BORN a Prince (of both Greece and Denmark) so I think I assumed he always had the title. 

Even if he wasn’t allowed to use that title in the UK, I’m very surprised that he wasn’t conferred as a British Prince as soon as he married Princess Elizabeth or at LEAST when she ascended the throne. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

 

He was BORN a Prince (of both Greece and Denmark) so I think I assumed he always had the title. 

Even if he wasn’t allowed to use that title in the UK, I’m very surprised that he wasn’t conferred as a British Prince as soon as he married Princess Elizabeth or at LEAST when she ascended the throne. 

 

I think he had to renounce all claims he had to titles in other countries in order to marry Elizabeth.   I think he wasn't made a British prince at marriage for the same reason he didn't become a King when his wife became Queen.  There is a different standard in place for a man who marries a princess than for a woman who marries a prince.  Mostly, I think it's based on sexist ideas.   

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Vanity Fair did some digging into old newspaper articles about the Parker divorce and came up with some good tidbits:

From the New York News-Chicago Tribune Dispatch:

Quote

The Duke of Edinburgh’s promotion to prince of the realm was rushed through last month to prevent him from being subpoenaed to testify in a divorce trial.

Queen Elizabeth’s ultra-conservative advisers, who had previously urged caution on the promotion, suddenly swung behind the move after learning of the danger.

They had learned that Eileen Parker, 34, plans to divorce her estranged husband Lt. Comdr. Michael Parker, 36, who was forced to resign last month as the Duke of Edinburgh’s private secretary.

Despite his title as duke and first gentleman in the land, Philip could have been subpoenaed to testify for Mrs. Parker until his elevation to prince on February 22 lifted him beyond the range of a subpoena.

Quote

The following year, in March 1958, Eileen Parker was finally granted her divorce. The Wilmington Morning News reported that Eileen took the stand herself during the 15-minute trial, as well as “a housekeeper in the bachelor apartment kept by Parker in Bohemian Chelsea” who provided a witness account. “The judge’s verdict was that Parker committed adultery with Mrs. Thompson there last July, six months after he resigned his royal job,” the paper reported.

Reuters additionally name-checked “the other woman”—Mrs. Mary Alexandra Thompson—and reported that “the custody of the Parker children, Michael, 13, and Julie, 9, was awarded to Mrs. Parker.”

The Sydney Morning Herald added that Parker, who had filed for divorce five months before, attended the hearing in “a heather mixture suit and black accessories and a pearl rose brooch.” Upon leaving, she said, ‘I am very glad it’s all over. I now hope to disappear from the public eye and live quietly.’”

In spite of that statement, Eileen Parker went on to publish a 1982 tell-all memoir titled Step Aside for Royalty. Although it is out of print, a rare copy can be found on Amazon—for over $2,700.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV recap of the episode!

The League Of Extraordinary Facial Hair Visits S02.E03 Of The Crown

The mustaches of Buckingham Palace finally become a plot point, Terrible Mike gets his terrible due, Philip gets his title, and Elizabeth mostly gets the short end of the sceptre.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think he had to renounce all claims he had to titles in other countries in order to marry Elizabeth.

Philip wasn't a British citizen before he married Elizabeth, so yes, he had to renounce his foreign titles and citizenship. He became a British citizen and was technically a commoner until he got the HRH/Duke of Edinburgh titles the day before his marriage.

[toolazy]

On 12/10/2017 at 4:34 PM, Lillith said:

I noticed that too, and they haven't put any of the other women in trousers so it really stands out. Maybe because she chose to wear the trousers in the family by divorcing Secretary Dudebro? Eh, I got nothin'. 

Don't we see Margaret in pants quite a bit?

[Blakeston]

On 12/11/2017 at 6:55 PM, Ceindreadh said:

I hadn’t realized until this episode that wasn’t always ‘Prince’ Philip, but merely a Duke who would have been outranked by any Prince or Princess or (former) Queen of the realm. 

In some ways, it was a bit unfair. A female consort (Queen Mary, the Queen Mother) if crowned alongside their husband would have the title of Queen and be second only to the King in order of precedence. But Philip wasn’t given that status when Elizabeth was crowned and in the interests of equality, that’s when he should have been made a Prince. 

I always assumed that marrying a female monarch meant you became the prince consort.

It's just really bizarre to me that a monarch's spouse wouldn't even have a royal title.

[Badger]

11 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I always assumed that marrying a female monarch meant you became the prince consort.

It's just really bizarre to me that a monarch's spouse wouldn't even have a royal title.

Actually, the Queen announced that Philip would have "place, pre-eminence  and precedence" next to her "on all occasions and in all meetings, except where otherwise provided by Act of Parliament" when she acceded to the Throne.  

Also, Philip was a descendant of Electress Sophia of Hanover, and at the time he married Elizabeth (don't know if it still holds today) any person descending from her was considered a British citizen.  She was the mother of George I and was supposed to succeed Queen Anne but died before Anne did.

[PeterPirate]

From the recap:

Quote

And thus, the Duke of Edinburgh took on the title by which we all know him, and by which we've probably already addressed him in these recaps because it's second nature: HRH The Prince Philip, conferred upon him in February 1957

According to this article, the Royal Yacht arrived in London on February 24. That is two days after Philip was declared the Prince of England (although I couldn't find if/when the coronation ceremony took place).  So it appears that the dramatic events portrayed in this episode fit very well with the historical reality.  

Edited December 13, 2017 by PeterPirate

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

I always assumed that marrying a female monarch meant you became the prince consort.

It's just really bizarre to me that a monarch's spouse wouldn't even have a royal title.

Since female succession was relatively rare up until now it's something that hasn't really been addressed in most monarchies. And if you think Philip was throwing unnecessary tantrums you better not google Prince Henrik of Denmark. It will be interesting to see how future generations will handle that setting - Europe is in for a wave of Queens regnant in one or two generations (Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and Spain).

[galaxygirl76]

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Since female succession was relatively rare up until now it's something that hasn't really been addressed in most monarchies. And if you think Philip was throwing unnecessary tantrums you better not google Prince Henrik of Denmark. It will be interesting to see how future generations will handle that setting - Europe is in for a wave of Queens regnant in one or two generations (Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and Spain).

The Netherlands just ended an era where they only had Queens. Since the death of King Willem III in 1890, there were only female Monarchs until King Willem-Alexander ascended the throne in 2013. Some husbands handled it better than others. The now Queen Mother Beatrix's husband prince Claus did not handle it well and suffered from depression.

[roamyn]

19 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

The Netherlands just ended an era where they only had Queens. Since the death of King Willem III in 1890, there were only female Monarchs until King Willem-Alexander ascended the throne in 2013. Some husbands handled it better than others. The now Queen Mother Beatrix's husband prince Claus did not handle it well and suffered from depression.

Just a note, she's not QM, but reverted to Princess Beatrice upon her abdication.

[Kerfuffler]

On 12/11/2017 at 9:07 AM, Roseanna said:

Thinking anew, I don't think that Mike Parker's letter would have accepted as a proof in the divorce court as there were no details. He could have claimed that it was only boasting such as men used to do.  

Yeah, I kept expecting him to start yelling at everyone that it was JUST LOCKER ROOM TALK.

So Tommy's clever idea for getting Mrs. Parker not to divorce her husband was just to show up and ask her not to? I was expecting something more nefarious than that, or at least more persuasive. Was it really just taken for granted that if someone from the palace told her to do something, to subjugate her own needs for the Crown's, she'd of course acquiesce? And when she didn't they had exactly zero other ideas for how to handle the situation. Though I didn't like her "my whole life has been favors for you people" speech. They didn't show any history to support the idea that she'd been misused by anyone except her shitty husband, and she was probably thrilled to be "in" with the royal family at first. It just seemed to come out of nowhere.

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Kerfuffler said:

Was it really just taken for granted that if someone from the palace told her to do something, to subjugate her own needs for the Crown's, she'd of course acquiesce?

I really think it was. Deference to authority of any kind was only just starting to deteriorate at that point in time.

[GaT]

Philip being jealous of his 8 years old son just makes me want to slap him until he cries.

[Inquisitionist]

On 12/8/2017 at 7:44 PM, Helena Dax said:

The ceremony didn't even look real, it was like something they were doing just in order to pacify a bratty kid. And at the end of that scene, he looked like a buffoon instead of a prince.

I kept thinking he looked like the Court Jester instead of a prince!

On 12/10/2017 at 1:37 PM, MissLucas said:

That an alpha-male like Philip would struggle with such an abrupt end to his aspirations and with his new role of playing second fiddle seems pretty natural to me.

Amen.

[Blakeston]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:59 AM, Badger said:

Actually, the Queen announced that Philip would have "place, pre-eminence  and precedence" next to her "on all occasions and in all meetings, except where otherwise provided by Act of Parliament" when she acceded to the Throne.  

That doesn't strike me as being the same as having a title.

[Roseanna]

15 hours ago, GaT said:

Philip being jealous of his 8 years old son just makes me want to slap him until he cries.

Philip isn't jealous of Charles - he doesn't have anything against Charles's position. He only wants to have a position in his own right which is quite natural, 

[GaT]

1 minute ago, Roseanna said:

Philip isn't jealous of Charles - he doesn't have anything against Charles's position. He only wants to have a position in his own right which is quite natural, 

He had a position in his own right, he's the Duke of Edinburgh, it just didn't outrank other people. He knew what this was going to be like when he married Elizabeth, so I have no sympathy for him.

[rubyred]

Philip seemed to think that having the title of "Prince" would automatically confer on him respect from "the moustaches." Personally I don't think respect works that way, but he's not the first person to conflate "status" (an artificial social construct) with superiority (a complicated concept with both objective and subjective aspects). It's probably of a piece with his upbringing and generation that he's more concerned with having the "respect" of servants and staff than the respect of his own wife <cough> THE QUEEN <cough>, but he is also not self-aware enough to realize that any respect shown him is more likely to be performative than genuine. He would, however, have the appearance of respect (which IMO is shorthand for deference in his worldview), and that's all that matters. To him.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, rubyred said:

Philip seemed to think that having the title of "Prince" would automatically confer on him respect from "the moustaches." Personally I don't think respect works that way, but he's not the first person to conflate "status" (an artificial social construct) with superiority (a complicated concept with both objective and subjective aspects). It's probably of a piece with his upbringing and generation that he's more concerned with having the "respect" of servants and staff than the respect of his own wife <cough> THE QUEEN <cough>, but he is also not self-aware enough to realize that any respect shown him is more likely to be performative than genuine. He would, however, have the appearance of respect (which IMO is shorthand for deference in his worldview), and that's all that matters. To him.

I couldn't figure out why he thought that would matter to the Moustaches. It seems obvious that it wouldn't make a difference to them. Wouldn't most people have seen it for what it was? Something to pacify the Queen's whiny husband. I guess it was quick and easy for Philip. God forbid he take Elizabeth's suggestion and earn their respect. Like maybe if you did your job and stopped whining so much Philip maybe you'd have it. 

[Badger]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

That doesn't strike me as being the same as having a title.

It's not.  I meant to be responding to the idea that Philip was outranked by Charles.  

[AimingforYoko]

I love they had Philip enter the plane in Lisbon literally with hat in hand.

[BuckeyeLou]

I'm a bit confused by the Queen's personal secretary(I think his name is Michael) and he is shown shaving off his mustache...was that in regards to Philip's sneering at the "mustaches in the Palace"?  And I also did not know Philip was Not a Prince once he married Elizabeth(since he was a Greek Prince), and thus he wanted a title, and I agree with the person above, that Philip looked like a Court Jester in that get-up, I don't know why he thought that would make people respect him.  And the VIP folks in attendance all looked bored and annoyed with Philip.  Basically, I agree with Elizabeth that Philip was acting childish & whiny and he needed to "man up".

[dleighg]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:51 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Eileen wasn’t an aristocrat by any means- she was a woman of some means because her husband was in service to the crown and had a career in the navy, but I didn’t see servants at her daughter’s bday party for example.

I was very struck by the contrast between the palace (where Charles and Anne said goodbye to Elizabeth before going to the party) and the extremely ordinary, middle-class home where the party was -- a kitchen just like a kitchen any regular old folks would have at that time.

[dleighg]

On 12/9/2017 at 8:52 PM, Megan said:

I love British series and the "hey it's..." Mr. Wickham as the boat admiral guy! (Official title)

 

I asked also in the previous thread; where does he appear in this episode? I want to go back and take a look!

[WatchrTina]

I was re-watching season 1 and who should I spy in one of the early episodes but Mike Parker, playing soccer (sort-of) with Philip and Charles in the garden.  I love how they take the trouble to introduce these peripheral characters long before they take center stage in a later episode.

[Megan]

On 12/17/2017 at 4:46 AM, dleighg said:

I asked also in the previous thread; where does he appear in this episode? I want to go back and take a look!

It's when Phillip goes down to the boat control area and is informed by Mr. Wickham what has been planned for Phillip.

[tennisgurl]

I really do struggle with Philip, but even when I find him irritating or downright unlikable, I do think I understand him He feels like he is constantly over shone by his wife and kids, that he`s an outsider in his own home, and that he has no real career or options beyond being second fiddle to his wife. I think to anyone, of any gender and time, that would be difficult, let alone an alpha male type from 1950s Britain. I`m not saying that I like seeing it, and I cant say I`m that sympathetic towards him whenever he starts complaining about his life or is cold to his wife who so obviously loves him, but I do at least get where he`s coming from. And Matt Smith is just killing it. 

Really, if Philip wanted respect other than being Mr. Elizabeth and the producer of heirs, maybe he should work harder to find things to really do that earn him respect, instead of just demanding better titles. That would probably serve him a LOT better. I know the navy was his life and he cant do that now (which really does suck, dont get me wrong) but there has to be something else he can become interested in that is appropriate. Also, he looked ridiculous in his prince get up. On the other hand, I thought he looked alright with a beard. Guess Elizabeth and I are on the same page! 

Really loved Elizabeth's scene with Eden when she admitted that she thought from the start that starting a war in Egypt was a dumb move, and that the whole mess the country was in was his fault, and I really loved when she called him out on wanting to make his mark in history the way Winston Churchill did (and she even mentioned how hard it must be following "a great man like Winston), while also letting him admit to having messed up. Even better was when she reminded  MacMillan that he was at fault for the war blunder as well, and that she knew it. It might be easy to blame everything on Eden, but he didn't do this alone. 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Really loved Elizabeth's scene with Eden when she admitted that she thought from the start that starting a war in Egypt was a dumb move, and that the whole mess the country was in was his fault, and I really loved when she called him out on wanting to make his mark in history the way Winston Churchill did (and she even mentioned how hard it must be following "a great man like Winston), while also letting him admit to having messed up. Even better was when she reminded  MacMillan that he was at fault for the war blunder as well, and that she knew it. It might be easy to blame everything on Eden, but he didn't do this alone. 

They do give Elizabeth the best lines for putting people in their places. And she delivers them with such gentle, yet deadly, style.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Clanstarling

[CousinAmy]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:33 AM, Blakeston said:

I always assumed that marrying a female monarch meant you became the prince consort.

It's just really bizarre to me that a monarch's spouse wouldn't even have a royal title.

Is William Wales a Prince? I thought he was Prince William, the Duke of Cambridge, but his wife is not a Princess, just a Dutchess. I think that's bizarre, too. 

[WatchrTina]

22 minutes ago, CousinAmy said:

Is William Wales a Prince? I thought he was Prince William, the Duke of Cambridge, but his wife is not a Princess, just a Dutchess. I think that's bizarre, too. 

Taking my response to the History Talk:  The British Monarchy thread.

Edited December 19, 2017 by WatchrTina

[doodlebug]

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I can understand why they have dropped that particular style -- can you imagine referring to Katherine as "The Princess William of Wales."  I'd be interested to know why Prince and Princess Michael of Kent elected to use that style.

I think it’s a generational thing. Back in the day, when the Kents chose their style, I believe it was pretty common for the wife to use her husband’s royal title and they weren’t the only ones who chose to do so.  Nowadays, times have changed and just as women are rarely referred to by their husband’s name socially (ie Mrs Michael Kent rather than Marie Kent); it sounds strange to do it with the royals.  Too formal and a bit like she’s his property for these times.

[ciprus]

I know this is fictionalized, but the more I watch the stronger I feel that the Queen should be awarded some sort of medal for putting up with Philip's whiny ass for 70 years.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

From the recap:

Eden is freshening up so that he can get off the plane from Jamaica and proclaim himself fully cured of his Mysterious Ailment For Which Sun Was The Prescription, but other than a clear shot up Jeremy Northam's nose, he offers very little here and is most likely lying about his health. I feel like no one I know has ever gone to Jamaica and felt better afterward, but maybe that's because those are all people who went there for Spring Break.

You might be kidding, but Eden had an excruciating condition which should have cause him to retire much earlier (it was also shown in the first season)

From Wikipedia: 

Eden had an ulcer, exacerbated by overwork, as early as the 1920s.[164] His life was changed by a medical mishap: during an operation on 12 April 1953, to remove gallstones, his bile duct was damaged, leaving Eden susceptible to recurrent infections, biliary obstruction, and liver failure. He suffered from cholangitis, an abdominal infection which became so agonising that he was admitted to hospital in 1956 with a temperature reaching 106 °F (41 °C). He required major surgery on three or four occasions to alleviate the problem.[165]

He was also prescribed Benzedrine, the wonder drug of the 1950s. Regarded then as a harmless stimulant, it belongs to the family of drugs called amphetamines, and at that time they were prescribed and used in a very casual way. Among the side effects of Benzedrine are insomnia, restlessness, and mood swings, all of which Eden suffered during the Suez Crisis; indeed, earlier in his premiership he complained of being kept awake at night by the sound of motor scooters.[166] Eden's drug use is now commonly agreed to have been a part of the reason for his bad judgment while Prime Minister.

Detailed version:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1356158/

I thought he was going to pass out at a couple of his audiences with the Queen.

Edited December 27, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Roseanna]

One of the thing the show forgot was that after Philip shaved, his face that were sunburn should have been white where the beard had been.   

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:56 PM, andromeda331 said:

I couldn't figure out why he thought that would matter to the Moustaches. It seems obvious that it wouldn't make a difference to them. 

I think it would (and will) make a difference to the Moustaches. It wouldn't to you and me, and it wouldn't in any other "civilian" sort of situation. But the Moustaches are totally driven by devotion to the monarchy and the preservation of it as an institution. The rules are all that matter to them. So if the rule is you give a prince your respect, they will give the prince their respect, unreservedly.

On 12/18/2017 at 9:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

Really loved Elizabeth's scene with Eden when she admitted that she thought from the start that starting a war in Egypt was a dumb move, and that the whole mess the country was in was his fault, and I really loved when she called him out on wanting to make his mark in history the way Winston Churchill did (and she even mentioned how hard it must be following "a great man like Winston)...

I saw that, but I also saw something else in the scene. She appeared to me to have real empathy for him, and genuine compassion. She understood the human drives that led to his undoing. That scene made me like her even more (as if that were possible).

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/9/2017 at 0:34 PM, Peace 47 said:

Super happy that Mrs. Parker didn’t get bullied into staying with her piece of crap husband, even if I thought that her bitterness towards the Queen was misplaced:  her husband was a slimeball no matter what job he would have taken.  The conversation between the Queen and Eileen didn’t really ring true to me overall:  even in this fantasy world, I cannot imagine the Queen ever going to visit Eileen at her house and talk so openly about the adultry.

Agreed, that seemed off to me. HM's schedule is dictated months in advance, does she really have the ability to blow off all of that for a heart-to-heart with her husband's secretary's wife?

 

On 12/9/2017 at 10:39 PM, dubbel zout said:

Lovely to see the Hammer again (Tommy Lascelles and his magnificent 'stache).

Yes! I was like "he'll take care of everything."

 

On 12/15/2017 at 1:12 AM, GaT said:

Philip being jealous of his 8 years old son just makes me want to slap him until he cries.

Right? His pissiness and petulance is ridiculous. You SOUGHT this, Philip. You PURSUED this. No one put a gun to your head to make you marry the heiress to the British Empire. And it's not as though he was a commoner--he of all people should be able to appreciate his wife's rank and precedence, and that of his son, in relation to his own. And for someone who appeared to be playing the role of innovator/iconoclast last season, he looked absolutely ridiculous dolled up as a Prince of the United Kingdom.

And where the hell does Mike "I've ignored my kids for years now" get off on criticizing Elizabeth for her mothering skills? Sod off, Mike, don't you need to go write another blabby letter to your dudebros?

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

HM's schedule is dictated months in advance, does she really have the ability to blow off all of that for a heart-to-heart with her husband's secretary's wife?

I think she probably has downtime scheduled the same way she has meetings with the PM on her calendar. She's not on the go every second of every day.

[ajsnaves]

Quote

Philip being jealous of his 8 years old son just makes me want to slap him until he cries.

Quote

 

I kinda get where Phillip is coming from here though.  He is the Consort to the Sovereign.  His immediate predecessor was crowned Queen.   The most recent male Consort had problems too, but he got to keep his German Princely titles.  So him wanting a title commensurate with his position is logical.  His being a prissy little man baby is tiring.

[lids]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:26 PM, Kerfuffler said:

So Tommy's clever idea for getting Mrs. Parker not to divorce her husband was just to show up and ask her not to? I was expecting something more nefarious than that, or at least more persuasive. Was it really just taken for granted that if someone from the palace told her to do something, to subjugate her own needs for the Crown's, she'd of course acquiesce? And when she didn't they had exactly zero other ideas for how to handle the situation.

I loved watching Eileen's interactions with all the men but especially Tommy. They all started off talking to her like she's a 'nice lady.' Patting her on the head and such. She immediately responds by raising her voice and the men get this wide eyed look like they're legitimately scared. You can see the wheels spinning in their heads: she might be crazy. Abort before she burns the whole operation down.

Tommy's read of her was correct too. She was not the type to be trifled with. The last thing they needed was for her to go to the press and start spilling secrets about how the palace wanted her to cover up affairs. And thank goodness she did not agree to postpone the divorce 'for a little while' which always means in palace-speak, half-past never.

I wonder what happened to the Thursday Club after it became a den of ill repute. Did Mike sell it because he needed money?

I've never seen Dr. Who or Matt Smith before and frankly I wasn't impressed until this episode. The face he was making during his assention to royal prince was dead on! Power-hungry, vindicated, committed to machismo with that underlying hint of insecurity. When he struggled to sit down in his pretty cape in a manly way, I lol'ed. Staff take note. There is a new sheriff out here on these mean palace streets.

[CousinAmy]

25 minutes ago, lids said:

I loved watching Eileen's interactions with all the men but especially Tommy. They all started off talking to her like she's a 'nice lady.' Patting her on the head and such. She immediately responds by raising her voice and the men get this wide eyed look like they're legitimately scared. You can see the wheels spinning in their heads: she might be crazy. Abort before she burns the whole operation down.

Tommy's read of her was correct too. She was not the type to be trifled with. The last thing they needed was for her to go to the press and start spilling secrets about how the palace wanted her to cover up affairs. And thank goodness she did not agree to postpone the divorce 'for a little while' which always means in palace-speak, half-past never.

I wonder what happened to the Thursday Club after it became a den of ill repute. Did Mike sell it because he needed money?

In real life, they did just separate for awhile before divorcing.

I don't think Thursday Club was the name if the place, just that it was a club where they had a standing reservation. Did Mike own it?

Eileen was used as the anti-Elizabeth to show a modern woman of the same age, with 2 kids, who wore pants! and was not afraid to talk back to high officials, or even the Queen! She was perhaps, what Elizabeth may have turned into if she had been out in the world. But Liz remained very proper, and maintained that early 20th century version of royalty that she may have learned from Grandmama, Queen Mary.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, CousinAmy said:

don't think Thursday Club was the name if the place, just that it was a club where they had a standing reservation. Did Mike own it?

It was called that, here is an article from 1996 about it and no Mike did not own it because it was just a gathering of men not a specific place.

Edited January 1, 2018 by biakbiak

[jjj]

I loved watching Elizabeth watching the films that Phillip sent.  She was dazzled by him, completely captured by the images of him.  Several times, her family had to pull her out of her reverie to read the letter describing the film.  That scene, and Philip *rereading* her note, plus their reactions during the dual Christmas speeches, gave us more of a sense of the connection between them than we see when they are together.