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S02.E07: Janet and Michael

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in The Good Place [V]

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chaifan

chaifan

2 hours ago, SoothingDave said:

I wonder why Michael was not concerned at all about replacing Janet with another.  He stole her.  He'd have to steal another.  Maybe they tightened security after one was stolen?

Couldn't he just ask Janet to get him another Janet? 

Totally unrelated, I have to wonder if D'Arcy's face hurts after days of filming from keeping the Janet smile all the time.  I didn't really notice until this episode, when she wasn't smiling 98% of the time, just how much she has to keep that one facial expression going in most scenes. 

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Loandbehold

Loandbehold

I need a Janet. Good Janet. Bad Janet. Good-but-glitchy Janet. I don't care. D'Arcy Carden is just so wonderful in this role. And Michael and Janet together were great. I didn't miss the others so everyone only being in one scene wasn't a problem. Normally I can't stand JM (won't even bother to look up the spelling of his name), but he wasn't bad here. Certainly not Pimento bad. Wonderful episode.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Add me to the chorus who were glad when Jason Mantzoukas was finally written off Brooklyn 99 and groaned aloud to see him pop up here. I guess it's possible he'll be less annoying here but he can only seem to play "manic" and nothing else.

Everyone else has already covered what a great episode this was and how the show continues to impress with its creativity. You wouldn't expect an episode that essentially sidelined the four leads to be this good.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

13 hours ago, Jamoche said:

Michael demonstrated real moral growth - he's got a friend that he doesn't want to destroy - and Chidi missed all of it. Michael will probably be smug when he gets around to noticing it - he's got something he can drop into conversation that'll make the needles look like a minor annoyance.

Chidi also missed Eleanor’s growth too. I was surprised that she didn’t suggest that Janet break the couple up or sabatoge them. 

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Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

14 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I thought I was the only person who couldn't stand Jason Mantzoukas. I really, really don't need to see him bring his tired "Look at how obnoxious I can be!" schtick to another terrific show.

Not just you. Hated him on the episodes of The League that I caught, and he was the worst part of Dirty Grandpa. (Which is no small feat, I tell you what!)

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sacrebleu

sacrebleu

Quote

I thought I was the only person who couldn't stand Jason Mantzoukas. I really, really don't need to see him bring his tired "Look at how obnoxious I can be!" schtick to another terrific show.

 

Nope. He's one of those people (like Kristin Wiig) who comedians think are brilliantly funny-- but whose schtick I grow weary of after 2 minutes. 

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CofCinci

CofCinci

How many episodes is he signed for?  The next episode is titled “Derek”, so at least one more. Can he go away and then maybe the TVgods can give us another Adam Scott episode to reward our patience and loyalty. 

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Delphi

Delphi

11 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

IDK, Janet creating her very own human was a pretty big twist for me. Didn't see that coming at all. Also, damn I wish I had that ability. What I love is that, even though it was predictable that Janet's glitches were related to Jason, the way she dealt with it was still surprising. 

What was interesting to me was while I was glad the Humans showed up, I didn't miss them at all. Michael and Janet carried this episode amazingly. I LOVED getting the backstory on how he got her and what they've been through. LOL at pudding restaurants. What even is that? hahahahaha

Poor Chidi. After the ethics torture last week, Michael picks him for Vicky to torture again? What do you have against Chidi, Michael? 

Tahani is losing me. I feel bad that she doesn't have a soul mate, Jason has Janet (I am convinced they will get back together, I don't like the new guy) and Eleanor has Chidi (even if they don't end up romantic their bond is incredibly strong. Tahani is bending over backwards trying to make Jason happen which is a sign they are doomed. 

I wouldn't ever consider trying poppers as bending over backwards.   

9 hours ago, Jamoche said:

Theory: Part of being in The Good Place is being able to get whatever you want, and for that you need a Janet. Demons and bad Janets may have the power, but they wouldn't be able to resist putting a bad spin on it.

If FroYo was Janet's idea for round 1, did Michael also ask her the same question in the various reboots?

Agreed,  and I also think that Janet runs the neighborhood.   She's not soft ware,  she's hardware.   She's essentially the mother chip that builds everything and makes sure that it's working,  without her ni neighbourhoods,  like just shown, just void. 

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Amarsir

Amarsir

11 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I think it was essential because part of the torture for Eleanor and Jason was thinking that they were in the Good Place by mistake. 

Sure, part of this torture implementation. But it didn’t have to be this way. Michael’s big idea was “have them torture each other.” Thinking they’re in The Good Place was the way he decided to play it out. Doing it differently wouldn’t have changed the big idea.

Over 803 attempts he tried different soulmates and alternatives to frozen yogurt. Pretty minor tweaks to something that clearly wasn’t working. Imagining something completely different off the top of my head, say “This is Level 1 of the afterlife. The four of you must work together to solve a puzzle” (say, discover enlightenment). Only there is no answer, but at some point you randomly tell them they reached level 2, then at a later point knock them back down again. Then watch them blame each other infinitely.

I’m digressing here but the point is, nothing was carved in stone except “more fun for us [demons] by having them torture each other”. No Good Place was required, no accurate depiction of TGP was required, and no Janet was required. It was simply set up that way because thatks what they know.

(Of course at this point it can’t be changed without giving away the resets to Sean. And 4th wall, this depiction was required to make the show work. I’m just saying they took these risks including a Good Janet because Michael wasn’t worried. Not because it was essential to him.)

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Dowel Jones

Dowel Jones

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

To me, the biggest revelation is that the Good Place seems to be up to something in regards to Michael's plan. I mean, "totally unguarded without any security"? Seems a little suspicious to me. Maybe they are running their own experiment to see if people (or demons) can change, and they want to rewrite the rules of the Good Place?

Or, as Michael said, they're just naive suckers who think that, since it's the Good Place, everyone there is good, by definition, and therefore they don't need any security.  How many thieves are running around in the Christian Heaven (besides Barabbas)?

I have to admit that, when Vicky brought forth her idea of Chidi and needles, I was thinking that they would plant him in Needles, CA, in the middle of summer.  I've been there.

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bros402

bros402

15 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

We also know that there is a Medium Place as well.  This leaves the mostly unexplored concept that this Universe does have a form of purgatory, and that's where the four humans are right now.  Trying to win their way into the actual Good Place.  It could be, given all Michael's lies and machinations, that they are actually not in the Bad Place after all.

I feel like this is the most gifted, versatile cast on TV right now, and a bit sad that other than Kristen Bell and Ted Danson (who have both taken their game to another level on this show) I didn't know any of these immensely skilled actors.

This is Jameela Jamil's (Tahani) first acting role - before this, she was a presenter on BBC shows or something like that.

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Notwisconsin

Notwisconsin

Quote

What do you have against Chidi, Michael? 

That's the point of the whole show. Chidi and the other three, according to the high mucky-mucks of the afterlife, deserve to be tortured forever and ever and ever.....The Bad Place and the Good Place are part of the same entity, and that entity has something against them.

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ParadoxLost

ParadoxLost

23 hours ago, Amarsir said:

This episode does seem to have undermined the idea that there is any more subterfuge left. There is a Good Place. It’s run by Angels. They do use Good Janets and Michael did steal one. I’m not saying there are no more twists in the show, but I’d say our perspective of the universeks structure is more-or-less accurate.

Not necessarily. 

There is an entire bureaucracy of the Bad Place.  We've seen their perspective so we know its got plenty of humans.

There seems to be only one person in the Middle Place.

The warehouse of Janets with no angels hanging around got me wondering.  I think there is the concept of The Good Place.  I don't think there are any residents.  No neighborhoods because they haven't needed them yet because no one made the cut.

So perhaps the questions become what will the Good Place do when J/T/E/C/M become their first residents?  Is the Good Place intentionally deceiving the Bad Place into believing they have an "equal" counterpart?  Why?  Or is it someone else that is convincing the Bad Place that they have an equal and opposing for?  What happens when the Bad Place figures that out?

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

23 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

I feel like this is the most gifted, versatile cast on TV right now, and a bit sad that other than Kristen Bell and Ted Danson (who have both taken their game to another level on this show) I didn't know any of these immensely skilled actors.

I still wouldn't, if I hadn't seen Jim Jarmusch's Paterson (excellent little film, BTW), in which Chidi has an important supporting part--in which he's nothing like Chidi.

And yes, I did say Chidi rather than the name of the actor, because sadly, I still don't know it, and am too lazy to look it up. I'm sure casting agents know, which is all that really matters.

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Fukui San

Fukui San

3 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Not necessarily. 

There is an entire bureaucracy of the Bad Place.  We've seen their perspective so we know its got plenty of humans.

There seems to be only one person in the Middle Place.

The warehouse of Janets with no angels hanging around got me wondering.  I think there is the concept of The Good Place.  I don't think there are any residents.  No neighborhoods because they haven't needed them yet because no one made the cut.

So perhaps the questions become what will the Good Place do when J/T/E/C/M become their first residents?  Is the Good Place intentionally deceiving the Bad Place into believing they have an "equal" counterpart?  Why?  Or is it someone else that is convincing the Bad Place that they have an equal and opposing for?  What happens when the Bad Place figures that out?

I don't think that can be the case if we take Mindys case at face value. She was genuinely just on the border of The Good Place/Bad Place. If she had lived and enacted her plan herself she surely would have made it. Even so she's not so remarkable that getting to The Good Place seems totally unattainable, just rare. If someone does good deeds for the right reasons they should get in. 

Obviously when and if we see the actual Good Place it will surprise us in some way. 

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Mabinogia

Mabinogia

14 hours ago, Delphi said:

I wouldn't ever consider trying poppers as bending over backwards.

You wouldn't, most people wouldn't, but the way Tahani said it sure implied it was the last thing she wanted to do, but she was going to do it, for Jason. 

 

14 hours ago, Delphi said:

Agreed,  and I also think that Janet runs the neighborhood.   She's not soft ware,  she's hardware.   She's essentially the mother chip that builds everything and makes sure that it's working,  without her ni neighbourhoods,  like just shown, just void. 

Perfect description. Without a Janet there is no neighborhood. I think it would all just collapse to nothing if there isn't a Janet to run it. I do wonder how it would work if she had been self-destructed and a new Janet put into the 'hood. Would the new Janet change anything? I'm not curious enough, however, to want to lose our Janet, oddly, because even if she's played by the same actress, and is basically the same character, I would miss the Janet we have come to know and love. 

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possibilities

possibilities

(edited)

Shaun being surprised that there was no security around the Janet warehouse makes me wonder how much the Bad Place staff actually know about the Good Place or how the rest of the afterlife is organized. I would have thought they'd know something like that.

Edited by possibilities
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scrambled eggs

scrambled eggs

On 10/27/2017 at 8:57 AM, tominboston said:

I just want to add a "me too" to those who have noted how absolutely wonderful D'Arcy Carden is in this show. Repeatedly Rebooted Janet has become my favorite character in that weird universe.

She was great last year, but D'Arcy Carden has taken it up a dozen notches this season. Janet has been a marvel, and I'm already preemptively annoyed by everyone who gets nominated instead of her for Best Supporting Actress awards. 

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wilnil

wilnil

Really entertaining episode (though almost all of them have been, especially this season). Two thoughts I had while watching it:

  • When Janet was "murdered" and rebooted in the first season, it seemed she eventually regained her memories of what had been going on in the neighborhood (or at least we never saw her unable to understand some situation that was rooted in pre-reboot events). And she says she has all of the knowledge in the universe. But we're told in this episode that she doesn't remember things from the previous runs. So I figure that either Michael has been "restoring her to factory settings" each time, or she'd only remember pre-reboot events if specifically asked about them. (Consider she didn't know how to be a couples therapist until Tahani asked her, then she downloaded everything about the subject.)
  • The producers may have blown their whole visual effects budget for the season on this episode, and it might have been worth it.
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arc

arc

Yeah, it seems like there’s a divide between what Janet actually consciously knows vs what she merely has instantaneous access to (plus nearly instantaneous assimilation of).

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arc

arc

On 10/27/2017 at 7:52 PM, Amarsir said:

I’m digressing here but the point is, nothing was carved in stone except “more fun for us [demons] by having them torture each other”. No Good Place was required, no accurate depiction of TGP was required, and no Janet was required. It was simply set up that way because thatks what they know.

Clearly architects do have immense magical powers of their own, but it may be that no one has ever built a “neighborhood” without using a Janet. It might be like trying to build a new town on earth in the 21st century and deliberately leaving out an electrical grid.

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TheOtherOne

TheOtherOne

(edited)

Just finished my sixth viewing. Still holds up on rewatching. So good. After the fifth, I had to go back and rewatch the first six of the season because I needed more Janet and the rest (but mostly Janet, and Michael).

So, so good.

The expressions on her face during and immediately after his "you're my oldest, my truest, my most loyal friend" speech, culminating in another order to kill her...

Perfect.

Edited by TheOtherOne
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CinAZ

CinAZ

On 10/28/2017 at 8:14 AM, Fukui San said:

I don't think that can be the case if we take Mindys case at face value. She was genuinely just on the border of The Good Place/Bad Place. If she had lived and enacted her plan herself she surely would have made it. Even so she's not so remarkable that getting to The Good Place seems totally unattainable, just rare. If someone does good deeds for the right reasons they should get in. 

Obviously when and if we see the actual Good Place it will surprise us in some way. 

I was thinking that maybe Mindy has not made any effort to better herself? No desire to improve? So she will be stuck in the middle place until she wants to become a better person?

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Affogato

Affogato

5 hours ago, CinAZ said:

I was thinking that maybe Mindy has not made any effort to better herself? No desire to improve? So she will be stuck in the middle place until she wants to become a better person?

she seems pretty into pleasuring herself.

22 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Perhaps their God wanted Michael to ‘steal’ a Janet. 

Michael has issues with understanding good concepts (and those bad janets, wow), seems not unreasonable to think a good being would have trouble wrapping their minds around evil concepts like stealing. 

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

7 hours ago, CinAZ said:

I was thinking that maybe Mindy has not made any effort to better herself? No desire to improve? So she will be stuck in the middle place until she wants to become a better person?

Mindy just needs her cocaine and then she'll get to working on self improvement.

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Anela

Anela

Janet is adorable. The part where Michael admits that she's his friend, and he doesn't want to kill her, was my favourite. 

I'm not thrilled with the new guy. Maybe he'll grow on me, unless they break up Tahani and Jason, and get him back together with Janet. 

Oh, I liked Custard's Last Flan, too. I missed the other one. 

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sacrebleu

sacrebleu

I have no problem with the Good Place Janet closet being unlocked. Why would anyone think someone from the Bad Place would steal a Janet? Janet's are built to help people, and why would any Good Place entity think someone from the Bad Place would want one. They have their own Bad Janets.

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Anisky

Anisky

(edited)

Oh wow, I realized that I forgot to comment on an EXTREMELY important thing we learned this episode: Michael's claim that there may be a way to get to the real Good Place is probably true!!

Michael: Okay, see, look, here, here, ugh, here's the reason: see, I promised the four humans that we would escape to the Good Place once and for all, and without you, we stand zero chance of ever making it there.
Janet: The new Janet will be able to help you with that.

!!! I thought that Michael's claim that it was possible was a lie, but nobody's there except for Janet when he says that, and Janet certainly seems to be believe that with the help of a Janet it's possible. 

I was so sure he was just BSing them to get them to help him, so I was surprised by this exchange!

Also, is it just me, or is "escape to the Good place once and for all" interesting phrasing? It's a weird way to put it if they haven't tried to get to the Good Place before. I guess he could just be referring to the fact that they thought they were in the Good Place before, but even if you assume that's what he meant, it still sounds weird. It really sounds to me like it implies that they've either been to the Good Place before but had to leave, or have made concerted efforts to get there on multiple occasions. I don't see how that could be true, but... if it's not, that's very strange phrasing. 

 

3 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I have no problem with the Good Place Janet closet being unlocked. Why would anyone think someone from the Bad Place would steal a Janet? Janet's are built to help people, and why would any Good Place entity think someone from the Bad Place would want one. They have their own Bad Janets.

Yeah... it would have been less suspicious to me if the others hadn't asked and Michael hadn't hand waved it away using the "Good is Dumb" trope. Essentially the entire underlying structure of Season 1 was exploiting our expectation that the "Rule of Funny" trope was in effect when secretly it wasn't, in order to hide all the clues that it was really the Bad Place in plain sight. When The Good Place appears to invoke a trope at face value, that's when I get suspicious that something else is going on!

Edited by Anisky
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AnnaRose

AnnaRose

Anisky, I always thought he was telling the truth about that, but it was good to get confirmation.  And I assumed that he phrased it as escaping - once and for all, because his boss(es) would not allow them to just leave the bad place... so they have to be sneaky, and then stay in the Good Place permanently if they're lucky enough to make it there.

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ByTor

ByTor

4 hours ago, Anisky said:

Michael: Okay, see, look, here, here, ugh, here's the reason: see, I promised the four humans that we would escape to the Good Place once and for all, and without you, we stand zero chance of ever making it there.

I assumed that was actually proof he was lying, like "ugh, I promised they could get there but I have no idea if I could even forking do that!" & that their only hope is Janet figuring out a way.

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DrScottie

DrScottie

(edited)
On 10/28/2017 at 2:26 PM, Wandering Snark said:

Loved the 'random items' Janet diagnostic test... with hers being a 14oz ostrich filet skewered to a novelty pencil, but I forgot the third element?

 

14-oz ostrich steak impaled on a novelty pencil that says "Lordy, Lordy, I'm over 40"

If you loved that, you'll probably love some of the other choices. The top and bottom choices were respectively: Women’s XXS Bolton Wanderers sweatpants blended into a smoothie with pages from David Lee Roth’s "Crazy From The Heat,” and a 26’x30’ oil painting of a chart detailing average monthly rainfall levels in Cheongju, South Korea resting precariously upon the apex of an Easter Island head dressed like Gleek from "The All-New Super Friends Hour.” 

Although some of the combinations listed were cut off or illegible, here's a list of what I could identify: 

Two trillion interlocking pentagonal coins
Twelve litres of tangerine juice
1/800 scale pewter statue of former NBA legend Lafayette "Fat" Lever
16500/1 scale bronze statue of former NBA... 
A nine piece patio set from a furniture store in Dar es Salaam
A silly monkey
The (something) from an SR-71 Blackbird
Replica of the "Winged Victory of Samothrace"
One otter whisker
410 metric tonnes of corrugated cardboard
(Steve Miller) Band's greatest hits, 1974--1978
Chilean submarine Guacolda

Second wheel choices: Grounded up into a fine powder, wrapped around, glued to, basted evenly over, stacked on top of, sitting on the...

Edited by DrScottie
forgot the tangerine juice
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John Potts

John Potts

(edited)

Awww, Michael likes Janet and doesn't want to marbelise her! Maybe there's hope he can get into the (real) Good Place after all. Maybe there's some Ineffable plan on the part of God (whoever he/she/it is) to get everyone into the Good Place eventually?

Can I just say - Called it! Janet is glitching because she had to lie. OK, I didn't get the root of it, but I was right on the cause. Incidentally, her internal temperature is a few trillion degrees? Given that's a lot hotter than the centre of the sun, her skin must be an incredible insulator (I guess that's divine engineering for you).

OK, Big Picture stuff: God's (whoever he/she/it is!) plan is to have everyone (Angels, Humans and Demons) end up in The Good Place. The "Bad" people have to qualify by realising and overcoming their faults. Furthermore Janet is God (maybe) - she is literally the hope in Hell.

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 2:43 AM, SomeTameGazelle said:

I would also have liked them to talk about the contrast of her willingness to be "marble-ized" with her resistance to being rebooted

Except her resistance to being rebooted is purely automatic. It seems to be the equivalent of Microsoft's "Are you sure?" prompt. I mean, presumably Michael is aware that she can't be pregnant with his baby!

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:25 AM, AnnaRose said:

I was so thrilled when we finally got rid of him in Brooklyn 99... and now he had to show up in my other favorite show.  Why does the Universe hate me so much?

Maybe you're actually in the Bad Place?

Edited by John Potts
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4Sibes Redux

4Sibes Redux

4 hours ago, aradia22 said:

OH MY GOD, they got Jason Mantzoukas to be Derek. I love it.

When he appeared I started shrieking that they brought the one person onto the show that could have made it even better than it had been. 

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