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S02.E07: Janet and Michael

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I did wonder to myself whether it was one Jason Mantzoukas appearance too many, but Derek was pretty funny. This show just keeps surprising me where it chooses to go.

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I was wondering when Eleanor was going to show. Of course she'd be the one to talk to Janet about relationships. It was either that of have Janet access the repository of all knowledge about strategies to deal with them. Eleanor narrowed that down for her nicely

4 minutes ago, mammaM said:

Janet & Derek 4eva!!!

If that keeps the neighborhood intact, I wish those two all the best! 

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Hah... this was a classic episode.

'Two friends, one of whom should kill the other immediately.'

'This is Derek, I created him!' and 'Sweety, go back to the void...' killed me as a 'resolution'.

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I kind of want to know what Vicky's cover story for the needles was since she is supposed to think that Chidi believes he is in the real Good Place.

Janet and Michael were very sweet together, although I would also have liked them to talk about the contrast of her willingness to be "marble-ized" with her resistance to being rebooted . . . or at least Michael's experience of it since he has ignored her desperate pleas more than 800 times before. Not because I feel like they left it unexplained, just because I enjoyed the reboot montage we got before and it would have been fun to get another taste somehow.

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Finally a Janet-centric episode! Long overdue given her awesomeness and how incandescently I love her! D'Arcy Carden I absolutely wonderful in this role. I can't believe I hadn't heard of her before now, what chops this woman has! 

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27 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

Janet and Michael were very sweet together, although I would also have liked them to talk about the contrast of her willingness to be "marble-ized" with her resistance to being rebooted . . . or at least Michael's experience of it since he has ignored her desperate pleas more than 800 times before. Not because I feel like they left it unexplained, just because I enjoyed the reboot montage we got before and it would have been fun to get another taste somehow.

I wondered if she was going to beg, too, but maybe when it's reached the stage of self-destruct, the time for begging is past.

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You guys called it. I was skeptical that it was specifically her relationship with Jason causing the problem, but there it is. Now I'm only sad they didn't bring up the "Ride or Die" protocol.

Good episode for character & relationship development. Also I'm happy if the little triangle turned into a short arc, though I suspect it isn't quite over yet.

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1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I'm relieved Janet created Derek rather than using Chidi as a rebound. Bonus points for Derek being Dennis Feinstein from Parks and Rec and Pimento from Brooklyn 99. 

I was so thrilled when we finally got rid of him in Brookly 99... and now he had to show up in my other favorite show.  Why does the Universe hate me so much?  (Or maybe it's just Michael Schur who hates me.  What did I ever do to you, Mr. Schur?)

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I loved the whole My Dinner with Andre vibe with Michael and Janet acting solely off one another for such a large part of the episode. Janet expressing so many thoughts through her cheery framework and Michael showing genuine concern were really touching. Not many shows would be willing to have a supporting cast centred episode. 

Was that Alison Becker with Sean in the administrative opening? 

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2 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

I loved the whole My Dinner with Andre vibe with Michael and Janet acting solely off one another for such a large part of the episode. Janet expressing so many thoughts through her cheery framework and Michael showing genuine concern were really touching. Not many shows would be willing to have a supporting cast centred episode. 

Was that Alison Becker with Sean in the administrative opening? 

Close, that was former Pawnee resident Wendy Haverford (Jama Williamson). I only realized she was on this show after seeing a list of actors on multiple Schur shows.

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I was dreading the confirmation of the Janet-Loves-Jason theory, yet despite it coming true, I really enjoyed this episode! I watched it twice, back-to-back. Janet is delightful.

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33 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

I wondered if she was going to beg, too, but maybe when it's reached the stage of self-destruct, the time for begging is past.

Yes, the self-destruct was clearly the last resort and there would be no reason to program the Janets to invoke the begging at that point. They just want to discourage the rebooting so those "murders" trigger the begging protocol. But self-destruct is recommended when the glitching is out of control, so it made sense.

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"Custard's Last Flan."  "I Thought I Saw a Puddin Vat."  I really want to see a contest between The Good Place writers and the iZombie ones over who can create the most hilarious name puns on their shows!

Loved the episode, despite Eleanor/Chidi/Jason/Tahani only being in about one scene each.  A great Janet-centric episode in general, but also a great insight into the relationship between Janet and Michael.  While I'm still unsure if I will ever find Michael trustworthy again, I really do believe that he actually has grown to consider her a friend, and he really couldn't bring himself to "turn her into the size of a marble and launch her into space."  D'Arcy Carden and Ted Danson were perfect here.  And, of course, I love all the random stuff and gags anytime Janet lied.  Especially vomiting pennies.  I kept laughing harder the longer it went, especially when it went on Michael and his/Ted Danson's annoyed look about it.

While brief, I still liked the moments we got of the other four like Jason trying to get Tahani into jalapeno poppers, poor Chidi getting a face (and feet) of needles thanks to Vicky, and Eleanor giving Janet advice about finding a "rebound guy."  Since it really looks like Janet's glitches are because she still has feelings for Jason deep down, I'm curious to see how this will play out (still suspect Jason/Janet are endgame, so Jason/Tahani won't last for too long.)  Also, I noticed that Eleanor briefly gushed about hot Jason is, so really, it seems like she find everyone here attractive on some level (although, I still think Tahani is the one that gets the most comments.)

Only thing I'm unsure of is the Derek character because I don't mind Jason Mantzoukas, but I feel like he only can play one type of character, so I depending on how and how much they use him going forward, I'm not sure if he'll work or not (he was fine in Parks & Recs, but I felt like he overstayed his welcome a bit on Brooklyn Nine-Nine.)

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1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Wouldn't Vicky sticking needles in Chidi tip him off that he is in The Bad Place? What excuse did she use, acupuncture?

That's my guess too. 

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Hey, so, basically confirmation that The Actual Good Place is up to something, right?

"Doors were unlocked, no security, I mean, it makes sense, right? They're good, so they're stupid and trusting." 

I mean, that means that they wanted Michael to take a Janet, no? Or at least that they're hoping that some Bad Place employee will take a Janet? 


I was gratified that I was 100% correct about what was going on with Janet and insist that I deserve cookies. I do kind of wish there'd been some unexpected twist, but I guess The Good Place can't manage that EVERY time, and the thing towards the end about Janet creating a person was pretty interesting. Hey, more evidence for my theory from a while back that Janet is becoming God through being rebooted so many times! 

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I thought the resolution was going to be Janet telling Jason and Tahani cheerily "Hi guys! I hope your relationship fails. Here are the Jalepeno Poppers you asked for."

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39 minutes ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

Yes, the self-destruct was clearly the last resort and there would be no reason to program the Janets to invoke the begging at that point. They just want to discourage the rebooting so those "murders" trigger the begging protocol. But self-destruct is recommended when the glitching is out of control, so it made sense.

Also, well, if they showed Janet begging, it would remind everyone that we've seen Janet lie before and we know she lied like crazy every time she was rebooted. If it comes up, they’ll probably just hand wave it away that it’s a completely separate subroutine so it isn’t really Janet that’s lying or something, or even just say that trying to prevent rebooting is just an exception. But they thought it was better if they just didn't bring people's attention to it, maybe?

It feels kinda off to me, though, since it’s a time that obviously Janets CAN and DO lie. 

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I love how bureaucratic thinking operates with Shaun and the other supervisors. They said they understood why Michael needed a Janet, so the torturees would think they were in The Good Place. But of course the torturees would have no reason to know that Janets existed, or what The Good Place would be like, and thus they would have no reason to suspect anything was wrong if none existed.

It does seem like Janets are needed to construct and maintain a neighborhood. But that's not what Shaun said in that scene.

 

I think the begging is to prevent a random reboot of a non-glitching Janet. Janets who are glitching are apparently programmed to beg for death the way that fully operative Janets are programmed to lobby against it. It makes sense to me. Both ways, it's a failsafe.

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Jason: "We've been robbed!" LMAO

Interesting episode, I'm glad we got more of Janet, she's definitely become one of my favorite characters.

Edited by GaT
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2 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

I was so thrilled when we finally got rid of him in Brookly 99... and now he had to show up in my other favorite show.  Why does the Universe hate me so much?  (Or maybe it's just Michael Schur who hates me.  What did I ever do to you, Mr. Schur?)

I thought I was the only person who couldn't stand Jason Mantzoukas. I really, really don't need to see him bring his tired "Look at how obnoxious I can be!" schtick to another terrific show.

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4 hours ago, J0nas3 said:

This show just keeps surprising me where it chooses to go.

 

4 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I'm relieved Janet created Derek rather than using Chidi as a rebound. 

Agreed. I expected the cliche of Eleanor being made to eat her own words when Janet rebounded with Chidi. and then lame triangle drama. But they didn't go there. So me happy!

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Michael demonstrated real moral growth - he's got a friend that he doesn't want to destroy - and Chidi missed all of it. Michael will probably be smug when he gets around to noticing it - he's got something he can drop into conversation that'll make the needles look like a minor annoyance.

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This is easily my favorite episode to date. I've never laughed out loud as much or as hard as I did during this one, and for the first time I immediately wanted to watch the episode again as soon as it was over.

D'Arcy Carden is a treasure. This was perfection.

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If the real Good Place's idea of fixing small awkward errors is turning someone (because clearly Janets are someone, even while they aren't people) into a marble and eating it/firing it into space, I'm not sure how Good the Good Place actually is.

I dread to think what will happen to the neighborhood when Jason and Derek team up.

Edited by Lebanna
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1 hour ago, Lebanna said:

If the real Good Place's idea of fixing small awkward errors is turning someone (because clearly Janets are someone, even while they aren't people) into a marble and eating it/firing it into space, I'm not sure how Good the Good Place actually is.

While this Janet is a Good Janet, I would imagine both kinds are made by the same neutral facility. Also, it's not clear to me that regular (or slightly upgraded) Janets are that much like people. Also also, those weren't small awkward errors: this Janet would have exploded or imploded the entire neighborhood, and probably soon.

The episode was really delightful. D'Arcy Carden plays a funny but difficult character so perfectly. And yeah, like some of y'all I thought Janet's rebound guy would be Chidi. I'm so pleased it's Mantzoukas though, because I think he's hilarious.

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7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I love how bureaucratic thinking operates with Shaun and the other supervisors. They said they understood why Michael needed a Janet, so the torturees would think they were in The Good Place. But of course the torturees would have no reason to know that Janets existed, or what The Good Place would be like, and thus they would have no reason to suspect anything was wrong if none existed.

That has always been a bit of a plot hole. Michael covered it by saying “lies work better when they’re closer to the truth”, but really there was no need to ever tell them “The Good Place” and “The Bad Place” exist at all. Make up one afterlife place, pick four incompatible humans to torture each other, and there’s nothing to discover. (Obviously then no show either.) I choose to explain this in that most people don’t think very far outside their own box. Good Place / Bad Place are real, and it’s revolutionary to even pretend to be the other. Dropping the model entirely would be too far from their own paradigm.

This episode does seem to have undermined the idea that there is any more subterfuge left. There is a Good Place. It’s run by Angels. They do use Good Janets and Michael did steal one. I’m not saying there are no more twists in the show, but I’d say our perspective of the universeks structure is more-or-less accurate.

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9 hours ago, Anisky said:

I do kind of wish there'd been some unexpected twist,

IDK, Janet creating her very own human was a pretty big twist for me. Didn't see that coming at all. Also, damn I wish I had that ability. What I love is that, even though it was predictable that Janet's glitches were related to Jason, the way she dealt with it was still surprising. 

What was interesting to me was while I was glad the Humans showed up, I didn't miss them at all. Michael and Janet carried this episode amazingly. I LOVED getting the backstory on how he got her and what they've been through. LOL at pudding restaurants. What even is that? hahahahaha

Poor Chidi. After the ethics torture last week, Michael picks him for Vicky to torture again? What do you have against Chidi, Michael? 

Tahani is losing me. I feel bad that she doesn't have a soul mate, Jason has Janet (I am convinced they will get back together, I don't like the new guy) and Eleanor has Chidi (even if they don't end up romantic their bond is incredibly strong. Tahani is bending over backwards trying to make Jason happen which is a sign they are doomed. 

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What I found most interesting was that Eleanor despite all her flaws treats Janet like a person while Vicky kept calling Janet an ‘it’ even if that was technically true.

Also after episodes of people wondering if the show was going to deal with the Jason/Janet thing....IT DID!!!! And quite effectively too I might add.  Trust the show people.

Micheal and Janet have a sweat relationship.

Edited by Chaos Theory · Reason: Autocorrect is evil
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On 10/27/2017 at 9:26 AM, Chaos Theory said:

What I found most interesting was that Eleanor despite all her flaws treats Janet like a person while Vicky kept calmly Janet an ‘it’ even if that was technically true.

Well, Eleanor is human and Vicky is a demon. And humans don't have extensive experience with humanoid non-humans as tools/servants, and demons do.

We've seen from Michael that a demon can change, though.

I was going to say that Eleanor has spent much more time with Janet than Vicky has, but she's not aware of that, so unless she remembers subconsciously, that's not an explanation.

So, demon it is.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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I wonder why Michael was not concerned at all about replacing Janet with another.  He stole her.  He'd have to steal another.  Maybe they tightened security after one was stolen?

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2 hours ago, Amarsir said:

but really there was no need to ever tell them “The Good Place” and “The Bad Place” exist at all. Make up one afterlife place, pick four incompatible humans to torture each other, and there’s nothing to discover. (Obviously then no show either.) I

I think it was essential because part of the torture for Eleanor and Jason was thinking that they were in the Good Place by mistake. 

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3 hours ago, Amarsir said:

This episode does seem to have undermined the idea that there is any more subterfuge left. There is a Good Place. It’s run by Angels.

We also know that there is a Medium Place as well.  This leaves the mostly unexplored concept that this Universe does have a form of purgatory, and that's where the four humans are right now.  Trying to win their way into the actual Good Place.  It could be, given all Michael's lies and machinations, that they are actually not in the Bad Place after all.

5 hours ago, arc said:

The episode was really delightful. D'Arcy Carden plays a funny but difficult character so perfectly.

I feel like this is the most gifted, versatile cast on TV right now, and a bit sad that other than Kristen Bell and Ted Danson (who have both taken their game to another level on this show) I didn't know any of these immensely skilled actors.

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11 hours ago, possibilities said:

I love how bureaucratic thinking operates with Shaun and the other supervisors. They said they understood why Michael needed a Janet, so the torturees would think they were in The Good Place. But of course the torturees would have no reason to know that Janets existed, or what The Good Place would be like, and thus they would have no reason to suspect anything was wrong if none existed.

Theory: Part of being in The Good Place is being able to get whatever you want, and for that you need a Janet. Demons and bad Janets may have the power, but they wouldn't be able to resist putting a bad spin on it.

If FroYo was Janet's idea for round 1, did Michael also ask her the same question in the various reboots?

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To me, the biggest revelation is that the Good Place seems to be up to something in regards to Michael's plan. I mean, "totally unguarded without any security"? Seems a little suspicious to me. Maybe they are running their own experiment to see if people (or demons) can change, and they want to rewrite the rules of the Good Place?

I am so glad they dealt with Janet and Jason and how Janet feels about it! I loved the whole episode being about Michael and Janet and their history, and how Janet became more human, and Michael has become a better person/demon throughout their years together. It was so sweet when Michael admitted that he didn't want to destroy Janet because "friends" and that he cared about her and didn't want another Janet. Plus, Janet is amazing as always. "kill me kill me kill me..." I was so sad earlier that Michael was an evil demon and I couldn't enjoy him anymore, but even evil demon Michael is a big demonic softie. 

We didn't get much of the rest of the cast, but I enjoyed the glimpses we got, especially poor Chidi being tortured with acupuncture. Vicki really must miss flaming pitchfork tortures, because she sucks at being subtle. 

And suddenly a wild Jason Mantzoukas appears! Does the guy have a special contract that he must be on a show I watch at all times? He leaves B99, and how he arrives here? Well, for the people dont like him, this really IS the Bad Place!

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I just want to add a "me too" to those who have noted how absolutely wonderful D'Arcy Carden is in this show. Repeatedly Rebooted Janet has become my favorite character in that weird universe.

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Odd that Michael didn't know about paperclips but you need paperclips to decommission a Janet. Loved the pudding/yogurt transition (although I actually like frozen yogurt).

Great episode.

I wonder if we are going to find out what is happening with the others, including the pins in chidi, in the next episode?

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I loved this episode. It was a solid half hour with my two favorite characters, I could have watched at least another half hour of them.

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The frozen yogurt was also a callback to Parks & Recreation, where in "The Wall" Ron Swanson writes a letter to frozen yogurt manufacturers saying "be ice cream or be nothing."  (Personally, I like it for what it is, but it's not ice cream.)

Those looked like accupuncture needles in Chidi, but I loved how he was asked to ride it out, and the whole discussion of how that was a great torture.

 

Happy-for-a-reason Janet is amazing.  Evil Janet melting down when she tries to be nice was surreal and absurd at the same time.

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33 minutes ago, Jamoche said:

Theory: Part of being in The Good Place is being able to get whatever you want, and for that you need a Janet. Demons and bad Janets may have the power, but they wouldn't be able to resist putting a bad spin on it.

Janet made it sound like a Janet is an essential tool for building a neighborhood. She implied that Michael would be the architect of the neighborhood, but she'd be the one to make his vision happen.

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