S02.E05: Entente Cordiale

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Concerned that the pending marriage of King Louis Philippe of France's son to the Spanish Queen will form a dangerous alliance, Victoria sets sail on her first voyage to the continent in an attempt to deter the wily French King.

Important Note:

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Thanks.

[voiceover]

Christ! Albert was so freaking morose, most of the hour, he may as well have had a big blinking sign over his head: "I'm a bastard!"  Thank heaven for Ernst -- an unexpected appearance that perked me right up, along with the sight of that delectable croque-en-bouche.  Get me a fork.

Thank goodness for the nekkid bathing, a la Room With a View.  Too bad Ernst didn't get the "drop trou" memo.  I mean: Come. ON!  Let's get that butt out where it can be admired.

*reporting from the shallow end*
 

[CarpeDiem54]

The depressed and wimpy Albert was boring.  I love the character of Ernst.  And yes, my man, drop trou!

I enjoyed watching how horrified the Dutchess and Albert were regarding the decadent French.  Rouge and food with sauces and "oddly shaped" bread.  Hee!

How the heck long were they in France?  When they left Bertie was still a tiny infant, and when they returned he looked several months older.

ETA - I had to look up the practice of eating ortolan songbirds.  How barbaric and disgusting.  I'm starting to agree with the Dutchess that the French were (are) repulsive.

Edited January 29, 2018 by CarpeDiem54

[Kaiju Ballet]

58 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Thank goodness for the nekkid bathing, a la Room With a View.

Oh em gee. I thought I was the only one that had a Room With a View moment!!!! I was surprised that Miss Coke wasn't more shocked at the sight. I did feel bad for her being burned by Ernst. And thank goodness that Mrs. Skerrit was so restrained with the rouge. Given that she had never applied makeup before, with the purchases I was worried we were going to see Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, English Queen style.

30 minutes ago, CarpeDiem54 said:

The depressed and wimpy Albert was boring.  I love the character of Ernst.

Albert was so goth, especially the melodramatic pouring of the black ink over his incomplete self-portrait. His fascination with Byron's daughter now makes sense.

30 minutes ago, CarpeDiem54 said:

ETA - I had to look up the practice of eating ortolan songbirds.  How barbaric and disgusting.  I'm starting to agree with the Dutchess that the French were (are) repulsive.

Oh my, thanks for the link. Eek! I did like the Dutchess' sneering at French food--who knows what they're hiding under the sauces?

Edited January 29, 2018 by Kaiju Ballet
Too many "thoughts".....

[magdalene]

That was some ugly make-up the French ladies were wearing, it looked like they were putting it on with a spatula.  I got nauseated when I saw those tiny birds being served as a dinner course. Of course I realize  I am being hypocritical as someone who eats chicken on a regular basis.

In all fairness though the English cooking at that time was bad in general and couldn't compare with French cooking.

I knew that Victoria and Albert had a "real" marriage and supported each other - it's good to see it portrayed in big and small ways here.

[twoods]

Thank you for the bathing scene, BBC. Thank you! It was nice for Albert to stop brooding and confide in Victoria. Another lovely bed scene. I don't know if they would be this intimate if Jenna and Tom weren't together in real life. Sometimes I feel as if I'm peeking into their real life romance.

Jenna is stunning. Her skin is flawless and I'm always jealous of it. I liked her better without all the makeup, and I'm glad Albert told her the same thing.

Are we going to see Drummond and the other guy have a secret relationship, or are they just going to imply it? 

[Athena5217]

The Frenchwoman that mocked Victoris’s Dash purse is now on my list of hated TV characters. We will probably never see her again, and good riddance!

[morgan]

Definitely A Room with a View flashbacks with the bathing scene and I loved it.  And for the birds I instantly thought Gigi when her aunt was teaching her to eat them.  Only time I remember hearing of them.  

Jenna is luminous.  

Edited January 29, 2018 by morgan

[wonderwoman]

7 hours ago, twoods said:

Thank you for the bathing scene, BBC. Thank you! It was nice for Albert to stop brooding and confide in Victoria. Another lovely bed scene. I don't know if they would be this intimate if Jenna and Tom weren't together in real life. Sometimes I feel as if I'm peeking into their real life romance.

Jenna is stunning. Her skin is flawless and I'm always jealous of it. I liked her better without all the makeup, and I'm glad Albert told her the same thing.

though i will never understand why pbs feels the need to pixilate the bare bums. 

re the makeup: interesting that they referred to "blusher" in the translation. it was "rouge" well into the 20th century.

[humbleopinion]

Victoria pouty last week, Albert pouty this week...who will be pouty next week ...Mrs Skerret pouty over the chef's new fancy lady relationship?

Will Lord Alfred become pouty over Drummond after their naked swim/wrestling if Drummond doesn't banter with him...what is it about grown men liking to wrestle when naked...an acceptable way to make skin to skin contact?

Albert calls Ernst out for becoming a scoundrel like their Papa...the beginning of a spiral downward?

[fredfreddy44]

Poor duchess, all she wanted was toast and tea.  It reminded me when Arthur was trying to get the Nurtimatic machine to make tea in HHGTTG.  "Just dry leaves in boiling water?"

[kwnyc]

(Have we lost the capacity to "like" posts? I don't see it anymore...)

That said, yes, it was a delicious episode with all kids of adventures, nekkid and not. Albert is so Germanic when he broods. And I bet that Victoria won't get fooled again by a cousin-prince. 

It was quite noticeable that the lighting in France was very bright and sunny, as opposed to the usual cloudy/overcast English lighting. that's a bit of a cheat, but not much, since they were a few hundred miles south. This season is definitely stronger than last, and the last episode and this (with so much of the action taking place outside of England) have been particularly good.

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

(Have we lost the capacity to "like" posts? I don't see it anymore...)

Look in the lower right corner of the post.  It's a little red heart.

[iMonrey]

I felt bad for Miss Cook. She is so obviously enamored of Ernst he'd have to be blind not to notice so I wish he hadn't been so snippy with her. 

I see everyone else also thought the saucy swimming scene seemed like a blatant rip-off of Room with a View. 

I'd have to sample a meal of 1840s era French cooking and English cooking before I could commit to a preference. I suspect both we seem unpalatable to my 21st century taste buds.

The guy playing the King of France had ridiculous hair.

I'm still not interested in the "downstairs" characters but we have the same problem with them this season as we did last season. There just doesn't seem to be much effort behind writing for them. What was Victoria's reaction to learning that Albert had essentially re-hired Skerritt? We never got to see any aftermath from that and I would think it was kind of a big deal for him to basically countermand her orders. There should have been words somewhere.

[chitowngirl]

38 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

 

I'm still not interested in the "downstairs" characters but we have the same problem with them this season as we did last season. There just doesn't seem to be much effort behind writing for them. What was Victoria's reaction to learning that Albert had essentially re-hired Skerritt? We never got to see any aftermath from that and I would think it was kind of a big deal for him to basically countermand her orders. There should have been words somewhere.

Victoria told Mrs. Skeritt that she was fine with her reasons for deception, but Albert would not be. One presumes that if Albert gave her a second chance, Victoria would accept Albert’s decision.

[ProudMary]

I wasn't bothered by Albert's melancholy.  I thought it appropriate.  For the 19th century, that was quite an awful burden for him to be carrying alone.  I hated Leopold even more, seeing how deeply Albert was affected.  I'm so glad he decided to share his burden with Victoria even though he had been instructed not to do so.  That was such a beautiful scene between the two of them.

When I saw them eating the little birds, I immediately said "ortolon" remembering the instruction scene from Gigi as was mentioned upthread.

Unpopular opinion:  I like the downstairs plot line and I especially like Skeritt as a character.  I'm even rooting for Skercatelli!  

Edited January 29, 2018 by ProudMary
Spelling typo.

[CarpeDiem54]

16 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Unpopular opinion:  I like the downstairs plot line and I especially like Skeritt as a character.  I'm even rooting for Skercatelli!  

Me, too!

[StaceyNotStacie]

23 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

 

Unpopular opinion:  I like the downstairs plot line and I especially like Skeritt as a character.  I'm even rooting for Skercatelli!  

I don’t dislike the downstairs characters, but when they’re on, I find myself disappointed that they’re not focusing on Victoria and Albert. The only downstairs character I dislike is Mrs Skerett’s sister. I just have no use for her. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Victoria told Mrs. Skeritt that she was fine with her reasons for deception, but Albert would not be. One presumes that if Albert gave her a second chance, Victoria would accept Albert’s decision.

That's true, I had forgotten about that. 

I'm still not crazy about the way the show made up this crap about Leopold maybe being Albert's father. It would be one thing if there were any historical basis for it, but there isn't. I understand a show like this will take artistic liberty with historical fact for entertainment purposes, but this is kind of a big deal. What they're suggesting is that the present royal family is descended from a bastard.

Ironically, there were rumors at the time of Victoria's birth that she might have been the illegitimate child of John Conroy, her mother's house comptroller and rumored lover. However, Victoria bore such a strong resemblance to the Hanoverian line as she grew older such rumors quickly faded.

[Razzberry]

I find Albert somewhat less charming than Victoria did.  

[Kohola3]

Quote

I'm still not crazy about the way the show made up this crap about Leopold maybe being Albert's father. It would be one thing if there were any historical basis for it, but there isn't.

Well, the writers didn't exactly make up that "crap", it's been a rumor for quite some time.

[springbarb]

I get that the show wants us to feel for Lord Alfred and Drummond having feelings for each other, but I know so little about either of them that I have no reason to ship them. I'm not entirely sure of Lord Alfred's role, and keep confusing Drummond with the kid from downstairs who was gossiping about Francatelli.

[Notwisconsin]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The guy playing the King of France had ridiculous hair.

So did Louis Phillipe...which reminds me, didn't the failed uprising against him which was famously depicted in Les Miz take place about this time? Since they've fudged the dates on numerous occasions, they could have had Inspector Javiert make a brief appearance.......

It turns out that THAT one took place in 1832, but there were others prior to the big one in 1848 which wound up bringing the Bonapartes back. IT would be a cool spin-off....

Edited January 29, 2018 by Notwisconsin
added more comments....

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I wasn't bothered by Albert's melancholy.  I thought it appropriate.  For the 19th century, that was quite an awful burden for him to be carrying alone.  I hated Leopold even more, seeing how deeply Albert was affected.  I'm so glad he decided to share his burden with Victoria even though he had been instructed not to do so.  That was such a beautiful scene between the two of them.

1

1

1

I totally agree with this.  Sometimes I really dislike being born in the 20th century, so many people have no patience for real emotion, situations that aren't "gotten over" in 2 seconds and tradition. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

That's true, I had forgotten about that. 

I'm still not crazy about the way the show made up this crap about Leopold maybe being Albert's father. It would be one thing if there were any historical basis for it, but there isn't. I understand a show like this will take artistic liberty with historical fact for entertainment purposes, but this is kind of a big deal. What they're suggesting is that the present royal family is descended from a bastard.

Ironically, there were rumors at the time of Victoria's birth that she might have been the illegitimate child of John Conroy, her mother's house comptroller and rumored lover. However, Victoria bore such a strong resemblance to the Hanoverian line as she grew older such rumors quickly faded.

 

I agree with this.  And rumor (as has been pointed out elsewhere) is neither proof nor fact.  So I'm putting this in the unnecessary drama category like Victoria's so-called  romance with Melbourne last year. 

54 minutes ago, springbarb said:

I get that the show wants us to feel for Lord Alfred and Drummond having feelings for each other... 

 

Unpopular opinion.  I so don't care.  I don't need to see forbidden gay relationships all the time, everywhere.  

Quote

The guy playing the King of France had ridiculous hair.

It seems that the French (during that period) were just big on fake and gaudy.  I hated when Outlander did their spin in France.  I know a lot of people raved about the costumes, but I thought most everything Claire wore was hideous and the French women were just pretentious and tacky.  I don't know what the deal was with the wigs, but they were ugly as sin.  

Sorry for being the party poop.  I'm just not feeling it today.  LOL

Edited January 29, 2018 by taurusrose

[howiveaddict]

On 1/26/2018 at 5:26 PM, HunterHunted said:

 

 

9 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

 

Albert calls Ernst out for becoming a scoundrel like their Papa...the beginning of a spiral downward?

Well, he was a scoundrel in real life. Glad they have this part right.  

[elle]

14 hours ago, morgan said:

 And for the birds I instantly thought Gigi when her aunt was teaching her to eat them.  Only time I remember hearing of them.  

Add me to the list!  I recall the look on Gigi's face as she is crunching down on the bones.  

20 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Oh my, thanks for the link. Eek! I did like the Dutchess' sneering at French food--who knows what they're hiding under the sauces?

The sauce comments reminds me how I always have to explain what "sweetbreads" are whenever we watch Ratatouille.  I usually point out that it is Remy's sauce that makes that dish and that the restaurant has to have an awful lot of that stock on hand to meet the demand. (all the while shuddering at the thought!)

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I felt bad for Miss Cook. She is so obviously enamored of Ernst he'd have to be blind not to notice so I wish he hadn't been so snippy with her. 

I think he did notice.  Others should have warned her away from him.

A question about Miss Cook.  Is she a lady in waiting?  I thought the queen's ladies were supposed to be married ladies.

10 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Albert calls Ernst out for becoming a scoundrel like their Papa...the beginning of a spiral downward?

Ernst was like his father.  We have seen hints of this all along the series.  It is probably why Albert was beside himself about Ernst's attentions to the Duchess of Sutherland.  Albert seems to have been unique among his family for his fidelity to Victoria.

Quote

I get that the show wants us to feel for Lord Alfred and Drummond having feelings for each other, but I know so little about either of them that I have no reason to ship them. I'm not entirely sure of Lord Alfred's role, and keep confusing Drummond with the kid from downstairs who was gossiping about Francatelli.

I do not care for the forbidden love story line for them, for Ernst and the Duchess, for Skeritt and Francetelli.  

Why was Drummond there on the trip?  Shouldn't Peel's secretary be home taking care of administrative duties for Peel?

Edited January 30, 2018 by elle

[Zella]

9 hours ago, kwnyc said:

It was quite noticeable that the lighting in France was very bright and sunny, as opposed to the usual cloudy/overcast English lighting. that's a bit of a cheat, but not much, since they were a few hundred miles south. This season is definitely stronger than last, and the last episode and this (with so much of the action taking place outside of England) have been particularly good.

The French scenes were so lovely! It was a fun trip away from the usual sets, and I highly approved of the bathing scene. My brother happened to be watching with me and caught the previous episode with all the Coburg scenes. As soon as he saw all the grim and dark interiors, he said, "That' a really German house." France was a nice contrast to that too. :) 

1 hour ago, elle said:

I do not care for the forbidden love story line for them, for Ernst and the Duchess, for Skeritt and Francetelli.  

 

Agreed. I enjoy the show, but I feel like they do a pretty mediocre job of developing subplots, especially of the romantic variety. Drummond and Alfred just sort of came out of nowhere, and there's not enough character development for either one of them. I honestly couldn't name a distinguishing personality characteristic for either one. I really enjoy Ernst as a character, but I really don't care about his infatuation with the Duchess. I am liking some of the downstairs action slightly more this season--like reforming the administration of the palace--but I still think Skerritt and Francatelli completely lack chemistry. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Zella

[Razzberry]

5 hours ago, springbarb said:

I get that the show wants us to feel for Lord Alfred and Drummond having feelings for each other, but I know so little about either of them that I have no reason to ship them. 

I blame the writer,  and to a lesser extent the actors for zero chemistry.  lol   As evidenced by the real Lord Alfred's happy marriage and, like, fifteen kids (that lived past childhood!), this is totally shoehorned in and it shows.

[LittleIggy]

Emo Albert was such a sulky, pouty child through most of the episode that I wanted to slap him. Thank God for Ernst and his flowered waistcoat.

I doubt Victoria was that excited to be knocked up again.

[CousinAmy]

1 minute ago, LittleIggy said:

Emo Albert was such a sulky, pouty child through most of the episode that I wanted to slap him. Thank God for Ernst and his flowered waistcoat.

I doubt Victoria was that excited to be knocked up again.

I was searching for a description of Mumbly Albert but Emo works, too. He is exceedingly unattractive at this point. 

And why was Victoria so thrilled to be pregnant again? I thought that she hated pregnancy and childbirth, although she seems to like toddler girls better than babies. I wonder when she will start dreading her missed periods? 

[kwnyc]

Not to mention with Drummond & Lord Alfred, presumably they both went to "public" school, and knew something about the love that dare not speak its name. (One of my favorite scenes in Downton was when Carson informed the Earl that Thomas was gay...and Wobert just said: do you think I'm blind? I went to Eton!)

And I expect the reason the old Duchess brought Miss Cook with her was to catch a suitable husband at Victoria's court.

[LittleIggy]

I was hoping to see Islay! :-(

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I felt bad for Miss Cook. She is so obviously enamored of Ernst he'd have to be blind not to notice so I wish he hadn't been so snippy with her. 

I see everyone else also thought the saucy swimming scene seemed like a blatant rip-off of Room with a View. 

I'd have to sample a meal of 1840s era French cooking and English cooking before I could commit to a preference. I suspect both we seem unpalatable to my 21st century taste buds.

The guy playing the King of France had ridiculous hair.

I'm still not interested in the "downstairs" characters but we have the same problem with them this season as we did last season. There just doesn't seem to be much effort behind writing for them. What was Victoria's reaction to learning that Albert had essentially re-hired Skerritt? We never got to see any aftermath from that and I would think it was kind of a big deal for him to basically countermand her orders. There should have been words somewhere.

 

11 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Victoria told Mrs. Skeritt that she was fine with her reasons for deception, but Albert would not be. One presumes that if Albert gave her a second chance, Victoria would accept Albert’s decision.

 

8 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I find Albert somewhat less charming than Victoria did.  

 

5 hours ago, elle said:

Add me to the list!  I recall the look on Gigi's face as she is crunching down on the bones.  

The sauce comments reminds me how I always have to explain what "sweetbreads" are whenever we watch Ratatouille.  I usually point out that it is Remy's sauce that makes that dish and that the restaurant has to have an awful lot of that stock on hand to meet the demand. (all the while shuddering at the thought!)

I think he did notice.  Others should have warned her away from him.

A question about Miss Cook.  Is she a lady in waiting?  I thought the queen's ladies were supposed to be married ladies.

Ernst was like his father.  We have seen hints of this all along the series.  It is probably why Albert was beside himself about Ernst's attentions to the Duchess of Sutherland.  Albert seems to have been unique among his family for his fidelity to Victoria.

I do not care for the forbidden love story line for them, for Ernst and the Duchess, for Skeritt and Francetelli.  

Why was Drummond there on the trip?  Shouldn't Peel's secretary be home taking care of administrative duties for Peel?

 

2 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I blame the writer,  and to a lesser extent the actors for zero chemistry.  lol   As evidenced by the real Lord Alfred's happy marriage and, like, fifteen kids (that lived past childhood!), this is totally shoehorned in and it shows.

 

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

Emo Albert was such a sulky, pouty child through most of the episode that I wanted to slap him. Thank God for Ernst and his flowered waistcoat.

I doubt Victoria was that excited to be knocked up again.

 

1 hour ago, CousinAmy said:

I was searching for a description of Mumbly Albert but Emo works, too. He is exceedingly unattractive at this point. 

And why was Victoria so thrilled to be pregnant again? I thought that she hated pregnancy and childbirth, although she seems to like toddler girls better than babies. I wonder when she will start dreading her missed periods? 

Lord, I am so sick of time being wasted with the rabbit looking Skerrit and agree that it is the fault of the writers.  We get it, she is the hooker with a heart of gold, who totally deserves this chance to be the queen's top lady maid.  I really do not feel bad about the Chef having a fancy lady friend...was he just supposed to spend the rest of his life pining away for Skerrit?

Yes, Victoria hated being pregnant, because it cut down on the good times in bed with Albert.

Speaking of Albert, he is so dreary and tedious, even before the Leopold revelation which really can not be proven.  Victoria is such a dynamic and lovely woman that it seems crazy that she would be into such a wet blanket.  It does not help that the actor is totally upstaged every time Ernst comes into the scene.  I love Ernst, who always seems so wise and fun, even though I know he was a total hound dog in real life.

[MJ Frog]

10 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I wasn't bothered by Albert's melancholy.  I thought it appropriate.  For the 19th century, that was quite an awful burden for him to be carrying alone.  I hated Leopold even more, seeing how deeply Albert was affected.  I'm so glad he decided to share his burden with Victoria even though he had been instructed not to do so.  That was such a beautiful scene between the two of them.

Yes. This. Albert, with his keen sense of propriety, would be especially affected. It spoke volumes that he felt he couldn't keep that from Victoria, even while fearing what damage that knowledge might do to his marriage and his children. And her response was beautiful - who wouldn't want to hear that from their beloved, especially when feeling unworthy of them, as Albert most assuredly was. I may have teared up a little during that scene. But probably not, since I'm a dude.

Edited January 30, 2018 by MJ Frog
grammar niggling

[izabella]

1 hour ago, CousinAmy said:

And why was Victoria so thrilled to be pregnant again? I thought that she hated pregnancy and childbirth, although she seems to like toddler girls better than babies. I wonder when she will start dreading her missed periods? 

I was surprised by that, too.  She seemed to have post-partum depression after Vicky was born, so I would think she would be afraid of this pregnancy rather than thrilled.

[magdalene]

Somebody should have convinced Victoria to breast-feed her babies to avoid these constant pregnancies that were so difficult for her.  I remember in the first season when she believed jumping up and down on the bed after sex was an effective form of birth control.  I laughed at the time but really the lack of common sense and prudishness associated with the Victorian Age is sad.   

[Notwisconsin]

3 hours ago, magdalene said:

...but really the lack of common sense and prudishness associated with the Victorian Age is sad.   

It wasn't Victoria who was the prude, it was Albert.

[Haleth]

I was glad to see that the preview of Victoria scolding Albert for swimming was a misdirect.  She was playing with him.  

I wonder how far the writers are going to go with the Drummond/Alfred storyline?  I don't mind the furtive glances and sly grins, but I don't want to see them involved in a scandal, especially if it didn't happen IRL.  As other posters have said, there hasn't been enough character development for me to really care about their relationship though.

[Kohola3]

Quote

Somebody should have convinced Victoria to breast-feed her babies to avoid these constant pregnancies that were so difficult for her.

Well, first of all that doesn't always work.  And upper class ladies just didn't do that - can you imagine putting off a meeting with the prime minister because the kid needs a snack?  With the delicate sensibilities of the time, I'm not sure what they'd even use as an excuse! 

[kwnyc]

"Emo Albert!" I love it. He's actually embodying the  "Sorrows of Young Werther" brooding  Germanic man. (The book, by Goethe, was, according to Wikipedia, a classic of the Sturm und Drang genre).

...a young man who is SO TROUBLED by the world! (Albert would most likely have studied Goethe).

Edited January 30, 2018 by kwnyc

[Good Queen Jane]

15 hours ago, elle said:

Why was Drummond there on the trip?  Shouldn't Peel's secretary be home taking care of administrative duties for Peel?

Peel told Victoria that he could not go on the trip to France with her, what with running the country and all, but that he would send Drummond to represent the English government (and, presumably, to keep Victoria from causing an international incident.)

[TaurusRose]

The actor playing Ernst is the opposite of Albert to be sure, but his disdain of Miss Coke was unattractive and his whoring rakishness is wearing thin. I like him best when he is showing genuine emotion and flashes of good humor and fun that doesn’t center on his endless inappropriate pursuit of women.

[TaurusRose]

5 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

It wasn't Victoria who was the prude, it was Albert.

She certainly was a prude when she decided to extend her contempt of all things involving her mother to Lady Flora.  Albert is not a prude when it comes to the marriage bed, but Albert is super concerned with propriety and appearances, as is Victoria when you get right down to it.

[seacliffsal]

Albert is just so pouty and boring.  There are also many times when he treats Victoria like a child.  Don't ever wear make-up...  It also seems hypocritical for him to be so worried about propriety and then he skinny dips in another country with other people around.  If that was to make him appear spontaneous and interesting, it didn't work for me.

[magdalene]

I don't know whether show Albert and show Ernst are exactly what their real life counter parts were like. I am guessing not.  But I like both the actors and I like the characters relationship with each other and their affection for each other.

As to the Victorian Age just reading Dickens would have told you  what things were like.  It's always a good time for the wealthy but the Victorians put so much emphasis on appearances and public morality that the whole time period from my modern POV comes across as very two-faced to me.  The London slums. The poverty.  Women forced by their poverty into prostitution and then condemned by their "betters" for having to prostitute themselves.  The relationship between the repressed sexuality of the time and the rise of prostitution and STDs.  And the ones who got blamed for the spread of STDs were of course women, not the men who went to prostitutes.

I enjoy the show and I like the characters but in general the time period is one of the darker spots in history for me.

[rur]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Albert is just so pouty and boring.  There are also many times when he treats Victoria like a child.  Don't ever wear make-up...  It also seems hypocritical for him to be so worried about propriety and then he skinny dips in another country with other people around.  If that was to make him appear spontaneous and interesting, it didn't work for me.

I think it the scene spoke more to the temper of the times. Men, especially aristocrats,  could do a lot of things that women weren't allowed to do. Skinny dipping was probably one of them. Heck, my mother grew up in the South in the '20s, and her brothers (and other boys) were allowed to swim in the creek, but the girls could only wade. 

Edited January 30, 2018 by rur
clarity

[tennisgurl]

Albert sure does get Germanic when he gets angsty, doesn't he? Honestly, I dont blame him for being so upset by this. Even now, finding out your recently deceased father might not be your biological father (and is actually your weird uncle) would be something that would upset a lot of people, let alone someone in the Victorian era. Let alone someone who is married to the queen of England. Plus, Albert is such a proper sort of guy, I dont blame him for being so upset. Not only is this a huge shock to his sense of morality, it could also be a HUGE disaster for his family and the whole country if this is ever made public. Good thing Ernst showed up and brightened his mood, and he finally told Victoria what was going on, and she was understanding and told him just what he needed to hear.

I really do enjoy the chemistry between Victoria and Albert, they really seem to compliment each other quite well, and enjoy spending time together. And I thought Victoria looked nice in her French makeup, but I agree with Albert that she looks better without. Jenna has amazing, glowing skin, and so much natural beauty, thats all Victoria needs!

I liked all of the culture clash between France and England, especially The Duchesses running commentary on how scandalous everything was. A loaf of bread? How crazy and foreign! She is totally the Victorian version of that person who orders a plain salad at a Chinese place. I also thought Miss Cook looked lovely in her French style clothing. She seemed to really enjoy her time in France, too bad she probably wont be visiting again any time soon. I also enjoyed the confused expression on Victoria's face at the napkins over peoples faces. I am always a sucker for those kinds of cross cultural confusion things, especially in a historical setting. Also, the lighting looked great! Especially after so much time at Albert's gloomy house last week. 

[retired watcher]

10 hours ago, magdalene said:

Somebody should have convinced Victoria to breast-feed her babies to avoid these constant pregnancies that were so difficult for her.  I remember in the first season when she believed jumping up and down on the bed after sex was an effective form of birth control.  I laughed at the time but really the lack of common sense and prudishness associated with the Victorian Age is sad.   

I believe the queen is not allowed to nurse.

[TVForever]

I have a slightly different take on Ernst's "snippy" treatment of Miss Coke:

I think he was fully aware of her interest in him, and was actually being "cruel to be kind". He knew that she was a young woman looking for a husband, and while he liked her, he knew he wasn't that guy. If he hadn't put her down that way, she likely would have spent a great deal more time mooning (and wasting her time)over him.

[iMonrey]

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Well, the writers didn't exactly make up that "crap", it's been a rumor for quite some time.

Hmm, interesting! I admit that makes the story somewhat more palatable. 

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A question about Miss Cook.  Is she a lady in waiting?  I thought the queen's ladies were supposed to be married ladies.

The Duchess introduced her as the Queen's new "Maid of Honor." They are apparently junior attendants to the Queen and she would have been one of many even if she's the only one we ever see.

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Emo Albert was such a sulky, pouty child through most of the episode that I wanted to slap him.

I'm not sure I understand this attitude. Is he just supposed to suck it up and get over the bombshell he's just learned that affects not only his very identity but his position and his children? That's a lot to absorb. 

The show makes a constant and obvious distinction between Albert and Ernst - one is broody, sober, proper and upright. The other is a bounder, a cad, a ladies man, a drinker, a philanderer. I find it rather telling that so many people seem to prefer Ernst just because he seems like he'd be more fun or because he's cuter or something. I'll take the nice dependable guy over the guy who's going to give me the clap any day, thanks very much.

(It's also weird that Ernst and Albert seem to have completely different accents.)

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And why was Victoria so thrilled to be pregnant again?

I'm willing to believe she was just happy to give Albert news she knew would cheer him up.