S34.E07: What Happened on Exile, Stays on Exile

[Guest]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

They do now.

I think they only care about Varner's faux pas, not Zeke's gender.

1 hour ago, MostlyContent said:

I can't believe that nobody has referenced Franz Kafka.  His work 'The Metamorphosis' is the only reason I even know what that word means, and the only reason I think Survivor is pretty innocent here.  They thought their viewers were a whole lot more well-read than they appear to be.  

The story was horrifying when I was assigned to to read it as a sophomore.  It. was. awful.  My mother, a published author of four books, and a local weekly columnist, said at that time, "Is that 'The Metamorphosis'?  I've heard about it all my life. Give it to me."   She threw it across the living room and retreated to the master bedroom after reading it.  Takes about an hour if one can actually read.  

Wikipedia (yeah, I know, but in this case, they're right) describes his works:  "His work, which fuses elements of realism and the fantastic, typically features isolated protagonists faced by bizarre or surrealistic predicaments and incomprehensible social-bureaucratic powers, and has been interpreted as exploring themes of alienation, existential anxiety, guilt, and absurdity. <snip> The term Kafkaesque has entered the English language to describe situations like those in his writing." 

So, the word metamorphosis is entirely appropriate before the awful shit by Varner.  

I'm now wondering who came up with that word during the challenge.   I heard one voice say, "I think she got it" (or something like that).  Then we saw Michaela hug and throw Hali around, so perhaps Hali was the one? 

I think that people are familiar with The Metamorphosis but the word is itself a common word outside of that story.  And since there was no 'The' in the puzzle and I don't see how the Kafka story really applies to these people outside of the meaning of the word, I think it was just meant as the word itself.  You think the Kafka story is what they meant?  If so, I'm surprised Jeff didn't specifically say so, after the challenge.  Odd of them to go literary, too.  

Even before tribal we were talking about the coincidence of that word being the puzzle after the tears over how Survivor changed Monica and Aubrey.

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

btw, somebody should tell that to Jeff Culpepper, weeping like a ninny.   I cringed at the sight of Culpepper and Aubry becoming all teary-eyed, talking about how the crucible of Survivor has changed them forever and no one can  understand what the show does to you.

Maybe they should talk to some Syrian refugees to get the sympathy they seek.

"I cried before I came here, asking myself why am I doing this?"

Jerks.  Boo hoo.  Don't go on the show then.

I don't really understand the notion that because someone chose something they can't complain about it. It's like when I tried for 1.5 years to conceive my firstborn and then subsequently complained (a bit!) about the morning sickness, and one of my co-workers berated me about it. 

I think many of these people love this show, but it can be hard at times - the lack of food, the island living, the mental dynamics of the game, etc. I have no doubt they share an experience that other people can't relate to. I don't think any of them were trying to act like victims or the most put-upon people in the world. But I am sure the game DOES change you, and I actually enjoyed hearing them talk about that, and the respect Brad has for his wife, for how far she got. 

3 hours ago, simplyme said:

Have you seen Survivor South Pacific? It might make you rethink the nice guy thing a bit. (Or the second episode of Cook Islands.) He's not a bad guy, but he can have his jerk side.

Yup. I never really liked Ozzy; I was always kind of indifferent to him. Sure, he was good at challenges and can fish like a boss, but other than that I never really found him to have any "game". He as boring, to me. But then SP - I definitely saw a nasty side to him. He just does not impress me at all. 

[Special K]

12 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I don't really understand the notion that because someone chose something they can't complain about it.

Tell me about it!  I live in NYC and most of us love it here and we complain bitterly about it.  :)

[backformore]

people have been referencing what happened with Brandon, I couldn't recall exactly what went down, so I looked it up.

For anyone interested:

Yeah, there is a similarity to last night's incident.   One contestant does something so over the top, that their tribe decides they need to be kicked out, and don't want to honor the decision with a ceremony, just get it over and done with. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, mishap said:

I mostly agree with this, but that last sentence is a little broad, IMO.  I think Sarah referred to being raised in a conservative home, and that she was not exposed to as many different types of people as people who live in the big cities.  Conservative does not equal being prejudice and having hatred toward other people. And I can assure you , that the land " between the coasts' is not full of racist, and bigots, rednecks and hillbillies, or whatever the people who do live on the coasts might think. 

But I'm not going to try and say that there is no intolerance here.  ( I live in the Midwest)  Sad to say , there is.  But there are also a lot of really good people who are open minded and welcoming to all.  I guess I don't  like it when people disregard the all of this beautiful country, between the coasts to be nothing but full of prejudice and hatred.  It is not.   And if you think that, and disregard all of the fly over states as such, you are missing out on  a lot.    

My Judy Obscure quote

Sarah didn't seem to be intending to say anything at all until Probst asked her to explain what she was thinking while she sat there looking stunned and tearful.  Even after he asked her, she paused and obviously struggled to find words to explain her feelings, she hadn't had time to write a concise speech and her feelings are by definition going to be about her. I don't think her Midwestern upbringing is  something she should be blamed for, in spite of all the prejudice and hatred toward people born between the coasts.

Was in response to@ Pamplemousse post

I didn't like how Sarah blubbered on for ages and seemed to turn it around and make it all about her and her narrow minded Midwestern upbringing.  I had to mute my TV.

Note how I said the hatred and prejudice was  toward the Midwesterners, not coming from them.  I am a Midwesterner.  I was defending Sarah and upset at the implied idea that she was narrow minded because she grew up in the Midwest.

[cooksdelight]

Y'all realize that after not eating real food for a while, that greasy pizza and soda probably gave everyone the runs...right?

:)

[Special K]

21 minutes ago, backformore said:

people have been referencing what happened with Brandon, I couldn't recall exactly what went down, so I looked it up.

For anyone interested:

Yeah, there is a similarity to last night's incident.   One contestant does something so over the top, that their tribe decides they need to be kicked out, and don't want to honor the decision with a ceremony, just get it over and done with. 

Thanks for posting that.  It had the additional element of a situation that was about to spiral dangerously out of control and needed to be contained.

Whenever they panned over to the Fans tribe, I was like, "who the h are these people?!" :-0 With the exception of Trish, I honestly don't remember any of them.  That guy on the far left gave great faces though.

[Silver Raven]

Ugh.  Russell Hantz is being his usual douchey self on Twitter.  "If he wants to be a boy, he should be treated like a boy."

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, ArmoPrincess said:

And with but one tribal council, Varner surpasses Russel Hanz as the most hated player in Survivor History.

WOW, that is a sobering and true statement.

[millennium]

29 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I don't really understand the notion that because someone chose something they can't complain about it. It's like when I tried for 1.5 years to conceive my firstborn and then subsequently complained (a bit!) about the morning sickness, and one of my co-workers berated me about it. 

I think many of these people love this show, but it can be hard at times - the lack of food, the island living, the mental dynamics of the game, etc. I have no doubt they share an experience that other people can't relate to. I don't think any of them were trying to act like victims or the most put-upon people in the world. But I am sure the game DOES change you, and I actually enjoyed hearing them talk about that, and the respect Brad has for his wife, for how far she got. 

There's a scene in the novel Salem's Lot, one of the early appearances of Kurt Barlow, the vampire.   He appears to some hapless townie wandering the streets one night and casually engages him in small talk, hypnotizing him in the process.   The vampire chats about all the misery he has seen in his time on the earth, all the misery that still exists, and then he brings it around to Americans, how everyone in America seems unhappy with their lives, their jobs, their marriages, etc., despite the high quality of life here.   He says in mild disgust, "Your unhappiness is that of a child who has spilled his ice cream at a birthday party."

That line came back to me as I watched Culpepper, who has a successful life/job/marriage, etc., sitting on a beautiful tropical beach the likes of which many of us will never set foot upon, weeping about the trauma of being on a game show where he might just win a million dollars.

[Runningwild]

 Saw Varner live on Facebook and he's still singing the same song. He says he thought everyone knew and he was just outing Zeke to six people. He also says they came back in July and that he and Zeke spoke in October when Zeke called him. He called to see if Varner was OK.

I was completely fooled by Varner. I didn't really think there was anything wrong with him.  But after last night (and today), he's right up there with Hantz for me. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Runningwild
Talk to text doesn't like me

[MostlyContent]

51 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

You think the Kafka story is what they meant?

Yes, I think so. 

[Lamb18]

I just watched the video above and I remember seeing that episode. Jeff was hanging onto Brandon to keep him away from the rest of the contestants. He wouldn't even raise his arms for the Fans tribe because that would mean letting go of Brandon. And in talking to Brandon, it was like he was trying to calm down an over excited kid at a Little League game or something.

[dizzyd]

Wow, I'm so glad I missed yesterday's episode. I don't understand why that crap made it on air instead of being on the editing floor. I'm done with this season and possibly the show.

[Silver Raven]

15 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

WOW, that is a sobering and true statement.

Yeah.  Hantz thanked him for making him no longer the most hated.

[blackwing]

18 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

I just watched the video above and I remember seeing that episode. Jeff was hanging onto Brandon to keep him away from the rest of the contestants. He wouldn't even raise his arms for the Fans tribe because that would mean letting go of Brandon. And in talking to Brandon, it was like he was trying to calm down an over excited kid at a Little League game or something.

I'm not so sure.  There's holding someone in restraint (which I would assume is completely not necessary, surely there's a security or big bouncer type just off camera at all times) and then there's.... whatever Jeff was doing.  Jeff seemed to really really enjoy massaging Brandon's shoulders.  I highly doubt that if he had stopped touching Brandon that Brandon would have rushed Phillip like a loose pit bull.

14 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

Wow, I'm so glad I missed yesterday's episode. I don't understand why that crap made it on air instead of being on the editing floor. I'm done with this season and possibly the show.

Well, Zeke very obviously approved of letting this air.  As for the argument that "they HAD to air it" because there was no vote.  I disagree.  TPTB could have said "whoa... TIME OUT.  None of that is going to air."  They could have cut that footage out.  They could have ended it with Varner saying "Ozzy and Zeke are deceiving you".  Then they could have called for a vote.  On air it just cuts right to Jeff saying "Time to vote" and then everything proceeds as normal.

Zeke wanted it to air, because now Zeke is even more famous than before.  He's going to be the face of the transgender movement, he's going to get booked on talk shows, etc.  There's an article on CNN about him, and Survivor never makes CNN anymore.  I think it stinks the way it happened for him, but in the long run, he was clearly OK with how it all turned out, because he's going to benefit from it.

[ghoulina]

36 minutes ago, millennium said:

That line came back to me as I watched Culpepper, who has a successful life/job/marriage, etc., sitting on a beautiful tropical beach the likes of which many of us will never set foot upon, weeping about the trauma of being on a game show where he might just win a million dollars.

I never got the impression that Culpepper was weeping about any sort of personal trauma. They were talking about how the game had changed them. Aubry expressed experiencing  some irritation by friends back home who kept insisting, "you've changed", and they didn't seem to get her anymore. Aubry made it to F3. As did Monica. So this was where Brad came in and said how he saw those changes in HIS WIFE. What SHE went through. I believe he said he didn't really get it the first time, but having made it further THIS time around, he could relate a bit more to what she experienced. I never really heard him throwing a pitty party and acting overly unhappy. People can get emotional without being actually "sad". 

Edited April 13, 2017 by ghoulina

[Izabela]

For me, Sarah's words at the tribal council were one of the highlights. If there is one story I'm always on the lookout for, it's the stories of those who come into contact with minority groups, interact with them, and learn that they are people who deserve respect and kindness. Sarah spoke about growing beyond what she had learned in the past and to me that is a beautiful thing, when people learn and grow. Especially in this particular case, where for so many years transgender people were only treated as caricatures in popular culture. Obviously that's been changing as of recent, but we're still not far removed from the horrors of Jerry Springer.

So seeing that, seeing Sarah put words to it, even if struggling some, was something that reassured me that there is hope that progress can continue to be made and the world will become more welcoming to those like Zeke and me and that hopefully one day people will wonder what the hell all the fuss was about. 

I still get riled if I think about Varner's reveal and what he tried to tap into, that horrible narrative that being transgender is a lie no matter how one lives it, that Zeke could not be trusted because he was transgender. That was so fucking low and wrong. I can understand perfectly why Zeke isn't finding it easy to forgive. He's certainly not obligated to forgive Varner for that betrayal.

[Special K]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I never got the impression that Culpepper was weeping about any sort of personal trauma. They were talking about how the game had changed them. Aubry expressed experiencing  some irritation by friends back home who kept insisting, "you've changed", and they didn't seem to get her anymore. Aubry made it to F3. As did Monica. So this was where Brad came in and said how he saw those changes in HIS WIFE. What SHE went through. I believe he said he didn't really get it the first time, but having made it further THIS time around, he could relate a bit more to what she experienced. I never really heard him throwing a pitty party and acting overly unhappy. People can get emotional without being actually "sad". 

Yeah, I agree.  He was expressing that he had developed a depth of understanding of what his wife went through in 39 days of Survivor, which he didn't understand before, and how strong/amazing she is.  So emotional but not sad.

[Wings]

44 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

Wow, I'm so glad I missed yesterday's episode. I don't understand why that crap made it on air instead of being on the editing floor. I'm done with this season and possibly the show.

I liked this episode and the TC  will bring many more positive aspects than negative.  It is not crap, very far from it.  It is a relevant factor in society today.  This puts transgender into conversations, nation wide, with many who would not have previously gone there.  

Again, Zeke approved this being shown.  He and the LGBT community will benefit.  I see nothing negative here for anyone or anything other than Varner.   

Edited April 13, 2017 by wings707

[ByaNose]

56 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

 Saw Varner live on Facebook and he's still singing the same song. He says he thought everyone knew and he was just outing Zeke to six people. He also says they came back in July and that he and Zeke spoke in October when Zeke called him. He called to see if Varner was OK.

I was completely fooled by Varner. I didn't really think there was anything wrong with him.  But after last night (and today), he's right up there with Hantz for me. 

Then I read the self penned article by Zeke and he doesn't sound so forgiving. I'm assuming since all that time has past (almost a year) and, now that's it's airing Zeke realizes that he really doesn't like Varner nor does he really forgive him. In the moment Zeke felt he should make Jeff feel better but I think that ship has sailed. 

[millennium]

24 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I never got the impression that Culpepper was weeping about any sort of personal trauma. They were talking about how the game had changed them. Aubry expressed experiencing  some irritation by friends back home who kept insisting, "you've changed", and they didn't seem to get her anymore. Aubry made it to F3. As did Monica. So this was where Brad came in and said how he saw those changes in HIS WIFE. What SHE went through. I believe he said he didn't really get it the first time, but having made it further THIS time around, he could relate a bit more to what she experienced. I never really heard him throwing a pitty party and acting overly unhappy. People can get emotional without being actually "sad". 

I hear you, but in millennium world crying in paradise is frowned upon.

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Sarah didn't seem to be intending to say anything at all until Probst asked her to explain what she was thinking while she sat there looking stunned and tearful.  Even after he asked her, she paused and obviously struggled to find words to explain her feelings, she hadn't had time to write a concise speech and her feelings are by definition going to be about her. I don't think her Midwestern upbringing is  something she should be blamed for, in spite of all the prejudice and hatred toward people born between the coasts.

Purely my own opinion here - but although Probst asked the question, I halfway got the impression Sarah's response was not directed back at Probst, but to the folks in her community back home.  Sarah gave me the impression her small Midwestern community upbringing had "taught" her (among other things) that people such as transgenders were different, wrong, going against God's design, etc., etc. - I'm sure everybody's heard the drill at one time or another.  Sarah's experience and relationship with Zeke had actually taught her this was not the case, though - and she wanted to express to the people back home that their "those people" preconceptions were what was wrong. 

My perception, anyway - YMMV.

 

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And I really wish they just never would have aired this. It was exploitative as hell. I'm no TV producer, so I don't want to talk out of my ass, but I'd like to think there was some way they could have handled things to avoid outing Zeke like that.

 

8 hours ago, deaja said:

 CBS easily could have filmed an alternate TC - it might not have told the "whole story" but it would have given Zeke the option to maintain his privacy in this aspect.

Not picking on yall by any means (I just selected the above two quotes purely as representative of dozens), but I can understand why CBS went ahead with the TC airing, and why Zeke signed off on it; because whether it was included in the broadcast or not, there was NO way Varner's outing of Zeke was NOT going to be exposed worldwide.

I mean - think about it.  If any part of the episode had deviated from the norm for the TC portion of the broadcast, questions would have immediately popped up all over the Internet.  Add a disclaimer that Varner departed the game in any way other than a standard vote, and the volume of related discussion would have immediately turned up to 11.  Every entertainment news outlet in the industry (and probably more than a few investigative news organizations as well) would have focused major resources on uncovering the truth of what happened at that TC.  And eventually someone somewhere - a disgruntled contestant, a production crew member, a friend of a friend, etc. - would let the truth slip.  And if someone subsequently put a pointed question to Production in front of cameras and microphones, they're not going to lie about it, and the truth would still come out.  Except now part of the story is also about a Production "coverup" of a controversial topic, and the story will be even further sensationalized.

By including the TC in the regular broadcast, though, TPTB - and Zeke - maintain control over the message and how it's delivered.  And I don't think that was necessarily a bad call.

 

8 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

They cut back on alcohol because people were getting drunk and doing/saying stupid shit.

So glad to see they put an end to THAT.  :P

 

7 hours ago, Drogo said:

Bold mine-

This was the same reaction my Khaleesi had, and (at 10) she's the best human being I know.  Andrea's stock increased exponentially for me in this moment. 

Echo echo.

 

7 hours ago, Drogo said:

Co-sign, though I did enjoy the episode until Varner became "garbage." I spent the better part of pre-bedtime talking to Khaleesi about it, and it seems strange to share her funny pre-TC commentary now, and I wasn't sure that I should share her TC/post-TC commentary since it was so upsetting to her.  Still, she said I could, and I know there are some folks here who get a kick out of her comments (in bold.) 

 

Doesn't Debbie realize that other people are going to get to see Exile, and that they're probably going to talk about it? 

Varner says he would have voted for Sandra if they'd told him: Didn't exactly need your vote, but thanks for the heads up. 

Zeke wants to work with Varner:  I guess Zeke doesn't remember that his whole plan was to keep big targets around, since Cochran has talked to the camera more than Varner has this season.

Those pizzas look like the ones that you forgot to wrap in tin foil the night before.

I like that Ozzy knows that losing Reward is good for him because the tribe needs him more then, but he still does everything he can to win the reward for them.

Varner plots against Ozzy:  Varner, no!  You're the bottom person, you just let somebody else come up with the ideas then you say "I'm in."

Other players are onboard with Ozzy:  I guess that pizza stunk.

Immunity challenge vocabulary test:  Yeah, that "O" is going to look awesome in Shipmaster. 

 

She was really upset about TC.... really upset.  There was ice cream.  There were sprinkles.  Clearly I didn't action-note her comments, but to paraphrase-

Zeke was a really good friend to him.  He didn't have to be so honest on the beach but he did it anyway. 

Jeff felt like Zeke was choosing Ozzy over him, but really Zeke was just choosing Staying In The Game over Getting Voted Out. 

He basically threw a temper tantrum and decided to get back at Zeke.

This is like if a boy pulled my dress up so other people can see my underwear.  Of course everybody knows you wear underwear, but it's nobody's business what kind of underwear I'm wearing, and worst of all someone else took away my rights to keep my underwear private.  

 

Your Khaleesi is priceless - but you know that already, right?  :)

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Survivor Serves Up A Slice Of Realness

The Survivors compete for yet more sad food, followed by a wrenching, awkward Tribal Council.

[millennium]

12 minutes ago, wings707 said:

 

Again, Zeke approved this being shown.  He and the LGBT community will benefit.  I see nothing negative here for anyone or anything other than Varner.   

I can understand why you might think that.   If I weren't living it, I might see it that way too.   It's hard if not impossible for people who are comfortable in their own skin to imagine or empathize with what it's like to wake up every day feeling like an impostor.    

To me, Zeke's approval seems tantamount to a blackmail victim trying to get a jump on the blackmailer.   The secret is coming out either way.   The best the victim can do is try to control the damage.   

If Zeke hadn't approved, the news still would have leaked.  It would have been whispered about and become something unseemly to be exposed on TMZ or Perez Hilton. 

The fact that perhaps some residual good may come from this mess doesn't mitigate what Zeke lost.   In the eyes of the public, he was just another guy.    I can't describe to you what an achievement that is, just to be considered ordinary.    And now he's not.  And may never be again.

Zeke was violated at the deepest level.   Silver linings mean little in the face of such a transgression.

[needschocolate]

What would have happened if Varner had an idol? 

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

In his essay to The Hollywood Reporter (which I would suggest many read because it's really compelling and details a lot more of what happened), Zeke made it clear that he did not reveal he was transgender when he first applied for the show and got the call to be on.

I actually came on here to post that everyone should read the Hollywood Reporter article.  Very well written, IMO.  

4 hours ago, eskimo said:

I don't have any memory of what Varner did to become a game changer, but whatever it was and however much time he put into the game, it was all undone in one sentence. 

Varner went from "gamechanger" to lifechanger.  

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

Ugh.  Russell Hantz is being his usual douchey self on Twitter.  "If he wants to be a boy, he should be treated like a boy."

I never thought that I would be one to stick up for Russell in anyway, but I am not sure if this comment is all that douchey.  Trans people want to be treated as the gender they identify with instead of their birth gender.  Zeke wants to be treated as a boy (well, he probably wants to be treated as a man).  

19 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Then I read the self penned article by Zeke and he doesn't sound so forgiving. I'm assuming since all that time has past (almost a year) and, now that's it's airing Zeke realizes that he really doesn't like Varner nor does he really forgive him. In the moment Zeke felt he should make Jeff feel better but I think that ship has sailed. 

I read an interview and Zeke says that he hopes Varner is doing well, but he is hoping this from a distance.  

[fishcakes]

I don't know if I have nothing to say about the incident or A LOT to say, but right now I just feel sad for everyone. For Zeke, of course, but also for Varner because while he did a monstrous thing, I don't think he's a monster. He'll never be able to fully atone for this and he knows it.

If there's one good thing to see, though, it's that in general the reaction to this has been pro-Zeke and pro-Zeke's privacy. In 2002, when Survivor Thailand was airing, there were rumors that Erin was transgendered and the conversation by viewers was completely different than what we're seeing now. People were all over that rumor, looking for any evidence that Erin had been born in a male body; they were doing online searches of her high school yearbook and making screencaps of TC and what they claimed was an Adam's Apple to try to prove that she was really "Aaron." (And this was TWoP. I shudder to think what the conversation was over at Survivor Sucks.) But now, fifteen years later, the rumor about Zeke came up and most people shrugged it off; then the rumor was confirmed and almost to a person, everyone has reacted with, "uh, and this is our business, how?" As a society, we're still mostly terrible, but we're better than we were.

As for the rest of the show, I am continuing to resent the fact that Brad Culpepper is growing on me. I can't even muster up a good Fuck You for him anymore. However, I will say that if he's going to cry about anything, it should be about his poor choice of tattoo artist.

Survivor pizza always looks bad, but last night's was worse than usual. The one Jeff showed off before the challenge looked like it had been made with Velveeta then refrigerated and reheated a few times. But it's pizza, so you know. I would have eaten it, and I'm not even starving.

[EVS]

2 hours ago, Runningwild said:

 Saw Varner live on Facebook and he's still singing the same song. He says he thought everyone knew and he was just outing Zeke to six people. He also says they came back in July and that he and Zeke spoke in October when Zeke called him. He called to see if Varner was OK.

I was completely fooled by Varner. I didn't really think there was anything wrong with him.  But after last night (and today), he's right up there with Hantz for me. 

I'm curious what made him think "everyone knew". Clearly he was wrong since Zeke basically said that people in his past knew, but he didn't automatically share with people he met more recently. I'd love to know how Varner arrived at that conclusion. 

And I'd love to know how he thought outing Zeke on national tv was outing him to only 6 people. 

I absolutely hate when someone does something awful to another person and then can't sincerely take responsibility for their actions with no excuses. Varner is just making himself look worse with these interviews, imo.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by EVS
Typos

[BarneySays]

2 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

there is no way to assess consequences that have yet to happen. Much like the way the actual information was delivered (in a mean-spirited, game-motivated reveal by another contestant) couldn't have been predicted by Zeke, neither could the potential consequences. The way you anticipate something happening isn't always the way it turns out and even if the day after, it appears that things are okay, we don't know what will happen for him down the road. Not everyone is going to respond positively.

I think you miss the point.  Zeke is a trans man.  He is always going to have to deal with people who do not "respond positively."  Just as varner, as a gay man, has dealt with and will continue to deal with people who do not respond positively to him as a gay man.  That is built into the experience of their lives.  Assessing the benefits or "wellness" of the decision to come out excludes those "negative responses" because they understand they will always be there.  If a trans or gay man (or woman) made life decisions based on avoiding negative reactions from others, they'd live a stunted cramped life (the old closet).  The fact is that if the public disclosure of zeke's experience was made by him, it was made with a full understanding of the potential consequences (the point I previously made).  This may be a circumstance where not being able to understand the experience of being a sexual minority clouds understanding. 

[seacliffsal]

Varner had been planning that move for the whole day.  He told us with glee that he had a secret that would change everything.  I do not believe that he told any producer what he was going to do as that would remove the element of surprise that he totally anticipated.  He reminds me of others within our society who think it doesn't matter what one does to, or say about, anyone else as long as the person gets what he/she wants.  And, there's no hint of remorse unless it does not turn out how they anticipated or planned for it to work out.  Varner is a classic example of that.  He accused (his look and tone when speaking to Zeke) Zeke of holding the secret of being transgender.  The whole accusation of 'why haven't you told them...' was to put Zeke on the defensive in order to get what Varner wanted, which was to stay in the game.  Ozzie immediately told him this was a game, and he was over the line in using someone's personal life for gain in the game.

I appreciated what the others said, but cringed (and kind of hated it) when Tai was giving Varner some benefit of the doubt, as did Andrea.  The whole "i can kind of see his side.." should not have happened, IMO.  It wasn't a slip of the tongue, it wasn't a statement made under duress, it was a planned move on Varner's part.  I thought Jeff Probst handled it well, and I thought Zeke was amazing.  His humbleness with 'I should not be a role model for anyone, but...' spoke volumes about his character.  

Varner's character was further revealed through his attempts at back-peddling-especially when he would not let Sarah get out a sentence without interruption as he was trying to justify his actions and she was being critical of him.  Malicious?  Yes, no matter how he tries to spin it-his action was premeditated with intent to hurt Zeke's status in the game without regard to hurting Zeke's life outside of the game.  Justifiable?  No.  There is no justification.  In fact, the best thing for him to have done at that point would have been to left right then and there without waiting for Jeff to make the determination that Varner would not continue in the game.  If Zeke was voted out shortly after this, I can only hope that he and Varner were not in the same location at the same time.

There are consequences to actions, no matter how sorry one may be.  I think that Varner is still trying to justify what happened; I also think that he will face consequences-the least of which will be wrestling the title of most hated survivor from Russel Hantz and/or Richard Hatch.  

[cooksdelight]

9 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I appreciated what the others said, but cringed (and kind of hated it) when Tai was giving Varner some benefit of the doubt, as did Andrea

They may not feel that way today, given they didn't know Varner had been planning it. They may have seen it as a slipup, not a planned move.

[Sarahsmile416]

8 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Thanks for the much needed LOLZ.  I am still very gutted from what I watched last night and seriously, those eyebrows need to be voted off ASAP.  They are rapidly approaching the "fuzzy caterpillar" stage.

 

Another belly laugh.  I have to wonder if the editors do this on purpose to see if we're paying attention.  Ozzy in the water is pure poetry in motion.  Culpepper is...not.

 

I noticed that too, but Ozzy has always been a pretty quiet player.  It doesn't seem to be in his nature to "speechify."  I also think he was gobsmacked, like all the others.  I saw that he had tears in his eyes towards the end of TC.  There are times when the best thing to say is nothing at all.

 

I am in no way arguing the part I bolded, just offering a different view...Zeke did say something about, "if it helps one person," didn't he?  Not that he ever in a million years wanted Jeff Freaking Varner to out him on national television, but for Zeke to be that stunned, and yet be able to pull something positive out of that trainwreck of a TC...that's what I will remember about him.  That and his incredible poise and grace towards Varner.  I was honestly floored watching Zeke's face.  Every time the camera panned to a close-up of Zeke, I expected him to break down.  But he didn't.  And that is amazing.  This is also the very first time I have cried at a TC, and I have seen every single one.

Sorry to quote this whole post, just wanted to point out that Ozzy did actually say something. He was definitely one of the quieter ones but at one point I believe he spoke up and said something like "You should be ashamed of yourself...you are playing with people's lives" - he didn't say much, but he did say something...

[peachmangosteen]

31 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't know if I have nothing to say about the incident or A LOT to say, but right now I just feel sad for everyone. For Zeke, of course, but also for Varner because while he did a monstrous thing, I don't think he's a monster. He'll never be able to fully atone for this and he knows it.

This. I really just don't even know what to say about this and truthfully I don't really want to say anything. I could barely watch the whole thing go down. I had to keep pausing to just collect myself. And I feel sad for everyone too, including Varner. 

19 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I appreciated what the others said, but cringed (and kind of hated it) when Tai was giving Varner some benefit of the doubt, as did Andrea.  The whole "i can kind of see his side.." should not have happened, IMO.

I personally think that Andrea and Tai being able to find a way to feel for and understand Varner as well as Zeke says a lot about their character and made me like both of them more as people.

Edited April 13, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Ms Blue Jay]

I agree with you @seacliffsal. I also wish people wouldn't bend over backwards to bring up Russell Hantz at every opportunity and I don't see how it's on topic.

@fishcakes, wow, your new attitude regarding Culpepper! ;)

I never thought that I would be one to stick up for Russell in anyway, but I am not sure if this comment is all that douchey.  Trans people want to be treated as the gender they identify with instead of their birth gender.  Zeke wants to be treated as a boy (well, he probably wants to be treated as a man).  

That's not even what he really said.... I went to go read his feed for context.... Anyways, it's not even on topic and people seem to be using this episode about Zeke to throw some shade on Russell.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[MissEwa]

4 hours ago, eskimo said:

Although Zeke knew that it could come up at any time, I don't think he was prepared for how it was actually used.  It was so malicious and, for me, that is the bigger issue.  Varner outright said that because Zeke kept this (totally non-relevant) info to himself proves that he is a liar.  So I guess we should all tell everybody everything or we're deceptive snakes.  I can't wait to tell the guy who changes my oil about my finances and medical history.  Don't want to be an untrustworthy liar.

Yep. What I got from his interviews is that he went on knowing it could come out but they way it came out - in a malicious act use to make him look deceptive - knocked the wind out of him. 

That was horrible, and I think most of what I think has been said, but a couple of things:

I knew what happened before I watched the episode (side-effect of being on the other side of the planet) but I assumed, from things like Varner's Twitter statement, that it was a spur-of-the-moment thing that he said before he even realised it and wanted to take back right away, and it very clearly wasn't, which took it to a whole other level of asshole. It's possible that Zeke, at that TC, thought the same - that Varner fucked up, but it wasn't malicious - and could be more forgiving of that, but then when he was working with CBS on the episode he saw where Varner talking about it ahead of time and realised it was pre-planned. Or it's possible he did that thing we all do when we're hurt and in shock but just want it to go away and so we say 'yeah, it's okay, it's fine,' even though it's really not. I don't know. I'm not Zeke - but I think he has every right not to be friends with Varner now even thought he was nice to him on the night. 

The fact that it was premeditated though, and alluded to in his confessionals... I know the producers don't intervene, but I also know, as Varner said in his twitter statement, that outing someone against their will is assault. I feel like if, in a confessional, he'd alluded very strongly to his intention to punch someone in the face at TC, that producers would have said something - either reminding him that that was against the rules, or taken it as a threat and pulled him right there. Varner wasn't threatening physical violence, but he was threatening something very very terrible. 

I also think that ties into the non-vote. What he did was assault, and they couldn't let him stay in the game after he did it. 

I don't think Zeke told Varner. I think Varner worked it out or found out online pre-season. He's even said in his interviews he was paying close attention to Zeke before they went out because he was suspicious at the back-to-back casting and thought he was a Hantz-level villain. Didn't Zeke say during that TC that through one and a half seasons he hadn't told anybody? 

One thing that has been good is that the reaction to this episode has been almost universal condemnation for what happened and support for Zeke. Not just here, where I'd expect it, but on a lot of the mainstream commentary and social media too. I don't go to Sucks or Reddit though so maybe it's different there. 

[momlyd]

7 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

and you deserve to walk barefoot on Legos for the rest of your miserable life. 

Ouch.

 

I mean, literally ouch!

Plus, this is a creative and awesome punishment! I think it needs to be adapted by our justice system as quickly as possible. 

[Callaphera]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Y'all realize that after not eating real food for a while, that greasy pizza and soda probably gave everyone the runs...right?

:)

Here's hoping that Varner left with a case of explosive diarrhea. And then stepped on all those Legos barefoot that were mentioned upthread.

[ByaNose]

1 hour ago, EVS said:

I'm curious what made him think "everyone knew". Clearly he was wrong since Zeke basically said that people in his past knew, but he didn't automatically share with people he met more recently. I'd love to know how Varner arrived at that conclusion. 

And I'd love to know how he thought outing Zeke on national tv was outing him to only 6 people. 

I absolutely hate when someone does something awful to another person and then can't sincerely take responsibility for their actions with no excuses. Varner is just making himself look worse with these interviews, imo.  

Varner's feeling/excuse/lie was that he thought the reason "everyone knew" was that one of the reasons he was cast on Survivor. He hadn't seen Zeke's season and thought in the casting process he told casting (which Zeke did) thus "everyone knowing". I think Probst also knew but they didn't say anything. No one from Millennials vs Gen X figured it out. Then an unknown Zeke comes on Game Changers and Varner said he knew right away and figured (wrongly) it was a huge theme for Zeke's first season. I know it defies all logic but that was Varner's rationale. Oddly enough, there was a transgender person BB and it was a major theme of the season. Her name was Audrey and she told casting just like Zeke did. Of course, Big Brother is aired live in real time. Both Millennials vs Gen Xwere shot back to back before being aired. The whole thing is crazy!

[Sugar]

Initially, I was disappointed that Tai and Andrea tried to justify Varner's actions. When they were saying "oh, I don't think he's a bad person.." I was rolling my eyes hard, because uh, when someone shows you what they're capable of, why not believe them? But then I thought about what I would do if a friend or family member had just done something as equally hateful and stupid. You don't WANT to believe that they're an asshole, so you try to explain, justify, defend, etc., because you don't want them to be the bad guy that they clearly are. None of us want to see people we care about in that light.

So I give them a pass, and I can even understand why Zeke was initially so forgiving in the moment. Because if you thought Varner was your friend, you'd want to give him the benefit of the doubt -  that he's not a malicious asshole, he's just a guy who fucked up. But then you think about it for a little while, and let your feelings on the matter sink in, and you may realize that he IS a bad person.

I've always found him a little smug and smarmy, and not nearly as entertaining as he thinks he is, but tonight I had ZERO sympathy for him. None. His apology reeked of damage control, and regret for the position he put himself in. To me, there are two separate issues. 1) Outing someone. 2) Making the correlation between "liar" and "trans person". The first is absolute crap, and shows that he's selfish and mean. The second shows that he's hateful - that he DOES have malice against trans people, because he thinks they are lying about their identity. You cannot be an advocate for trans rights and accuse Zeke of betraying and deceiving others just because he kept his transition private. So, if Ozzy cheated on his girlfriend 10 years ago, that makes him a bad Survivor ally because he's capable of lying?! The second issue is the one that I think will never be excused, and Varner will just never get it, no matter how many apologies he makes on Twitter. He can't even see his own personal bias, and that he IS in fact a bad person.

The only way I personally would ever give Varner a pass, is if he actually admitted to having issues with trans people. If he admitted that his remarks were discriminatory in nature, and that it wasn't just a slip-up. And that having reflected on the situation, and maybe spoken to people in the community, he now understands that he was wrong. Literally the only way that I think he can redeem himself.

Also, I'm a huge Survivor fan and occasionally read Sucks, RHAP, and a few other Survivor fan sites, and never saw a single reference to Zeke's transition. So, in terms of everyone knowing - maybe only if you sought it out.
 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Sugar

[peachmangosteen]

See, I really didn't get that Varner was trying to say that all trans people are liars or that being trans means you are deceptive. That I agree would be just a truly heinous thing and would make Varner a monster. To me it came off like Varner was saying that Zeke was lying about something so he therefore wasn't trustworthy in the game, like how you might think someone who lies about their job on Survivor isn't trustworthy. I do believe Varner that he thought Zeke was out in the real world/to the audience. That's part of why to me it didn't come off as a malicious thing so much as a terribly stupid miscalculation of a strategy to move the target off himself and onto someone else. Of course even in that case it was completely wrong and gross and does prove that Varner is at the very least deeply selfish and willing to stoop pretty low just to win a game.

Although I'm starting to feel less and less sure about my perception of Varner and what he really knew/what he really feels.

[Subrookie]

Varner is getting a lot of well deserved anger after this, but I like to think even good people do bad things. I don't think he's a bad person, he made a bad decision. I won't try to defend him. I was pretty shocked he brought it up. I'd be amazed if they didn't spend a fair amount of time talking about it in the after show following the final tribal. He was one of my favorite players from my favorite season of this show (S2) and he's been outspoken on LGBTQ rights. I'm sure he feels horrible now. 

Ozzy had to be thinking, "thank God their not talking about me again" 

I can't remember when but I think this isn't the only time they never actually voted at tribal. They kind of did, by hands, but social issues aside Tai could have made them vote and used an Idol to get rid of someone. Since it was pretty clear Varner was going home. 

I do remember recalling that when they went to tribal with 15-20 minutes left something had to be up. 

Anyway, not a defense of what Jeff did but I won't judge him by this forever. He can apologize and I'm sure he has. 

[cooksdelight]

12 minutes ago, Subrookie said:

Tai could have made them vote and used an Idol to get rid of someone

I would be just like him to have used one to save Varner.

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Then I read the self penned article by Zeke and he doesn't sound so forgiving. I'm assuming since all that time has past (almost a year) and, now that's it's airing Zeke realizes that he really doesn't like Varner nor does he really forgive him. In the moment Zeke felt he should make Jeff feel better but I think that ship has sailed. 

I think there's a difference between A. forgiving someone and B. pretending it was okay and trusting someone again. Zeke may have managed the forgiveness (or at least appears to be trying), but that doesn't mean he has to (or should) welcome Varner into his life in a significant way. 

4 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Y'all realize that after not eating real food for a while, that greasy pizza and soda probably gave everyone the runs...right?

:)

I was hoping those weren't the actual pizzas they were served. *shudder*  Also, I learned from Zeke's Hollywood Reporter article that coconut is a natural laxative, so...

Regarding whether Probst specified whether the buoys spelled a word or phrase, I thought he said they spelled a 13-letter word at the beginning.

4 hours ago, Special K said:

Whenever they panned over to the Fans tribe, I was like, "who the h are these people?!" :-0 With the exception of Trish, I honestly don't remember any of them.  That guy on the far left gave great faces though.

Er, Trish wasn't on that season. She was on Cagayan. It was probably Sherri. They look similar.

I confess to yelling, "Go, Debbie! Use those years of gymnastics!" during the reward challenge.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Aren't Probst and Varner friends in real life?  I thought I read that here.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hera]

13 minutes ago, Sugar said:

Also, I'm a huge Survivor fan and occasionally read Sucks, RHAP, and a few other Survivor fan sites, and never saw a single reference to Zeke's transition. So, in terms of everyone knowing - maybe only if you sought it out.

If you google "Zeke Smith Harvard" you might stumble across it, but I don't know how many people would think to do that. I certainly didn't until just now.

I am not someone who believes that not telling someone something is the same as hiding it or lying about it. It sounds like Zeke was pretty outspoken about being transgender at Harvard and I'm sure that given enough time after the game, some of his fellow castmates would have found out about it (either from googling him themselves or from him telling them). However, it presumably never came up over the course of a season and a half because how often do any of us get asked, "Were you born as the sex that I perceive you to be?" I can imagine that there were opportunities where Zeke could have brought it up, but didn't because why should he? In every conversation, there are topics we could introduce but don't.

It's funny because before Tribal Council, I was thinking what a nice tribe it seemed to be. In particular, I was impressed that everyone knew Varner would be scrambling and accepted that he'd be getting one-on-one time with everyone else. Similarly, I enjoyed the exchange among Sarah, Debbie, Andrea (and Tai?) about how to vote. We don't often get to see conversations where someone can say what Sarah said: (paraphrasing) "I would rather save Varner a get Ozzy out because I think Varner will be loyal for a few more votes, while I think Ozzy will ditch us as soon as he can, but if the rest of you are set on Varner, I'll vote with you." I assume they happen all the time, it's just that they only show the ones that lead to people deciding to flip or consider a blindside. If I were playing, I would hope that I, too, could land in an alliance where we could have open and seemingly honest discussions about how to vote without worrying about my allies losing trust in me if my opinion differed from that of the rest of the group.

[MrsR]

And get voted Ozzy out.

 

Now THAT would have made him the MOST hated player in Survivor history.

[fishcakes]

12 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Aren't Probst and Varner friends in real life?

I don't think so. Probst and Colby were pretty good friends for a few years when Colby was living in L.A. and trying to make a go of his acting career, but that seemed to be over by HvV, at least judging by how snippy they were with each other. ?

[Adeejay]

I knew there had to be a reason why Probst has been virtually mute regarding this season.  I found it odd that when he was on the Tonight Show, presumably to promote the show, the subject didn’t come up.  I thought perhaps he wasn’t happy with the winner.  Now I now why.  

[tiredofwork]

The ONLY good part of this episode = Hali in that bikini.., especially after solving the puzzle.

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, Sugar said:

Also, I'm a huge Survivor fan and occasionally read Sucks, RHAP, and a few other Survivor fan sites, and never saw a single reference to Zeke's transition. So, in terms of everyone knowing - maybe only if you sought it out.

Well, I knew. God knows how or where, but there were links during Zeke's season to stuff from his Harvard years. I though it was generally well-known among Survivor fans - by maybe it was only well-known to Zeke fans.