Joe & Kendra: Looking Forward To Side Hugs

[SMama]

31 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

The Caldwells are in a dicey situation when it comes to making enough money for their large family,

 

Meanwhile, Caldwell has 8 kids and one in process. And you can see by their clothes and such that they do like to keep up some appearances. So if you're not willing to dress yourself and your kids the way Duggars dress, you're going to need some money just for that.  Some of the trips they take do seem to be to retreats they're running and talks he gives and such, though, So at least some of the trips have pay attached. 

 

Perhaps the Caldwells should stop the baby train and take care of the children they have. They can also sell their boat and start paying rent. JB worships at the altar of money so he must be furious if the Caldwells are living rent free. Again, very generous of Joe and Kendra to make that sacrifice but at a point is going to get old. 

[Churchhoney]

19 hours ago, SMama said:

Perhaps the Caldwells should stop the baby train and take care of the children they have. They can also sell their boat and start paying rent. JB worships at the altar of money so he must be furious if the Caldwells are living rent free. Again, very generous of Joe and Kendra to make that sacrifice but at a point is going to get old. 

All true. Of course JB lives in a house he essentially got for free, too! 

Plus, of course, they all believe, including Mr. Possibly High Dudgeon Jim Bob and Joe, who may well find himself in an equivalent position somewhere down the line, that Jesus demands that you on no account stop the baby train.

Wouldn't be seemly for the faithful to ask their preacher to stop it, just so he wouldn't cost them any more money.  If Jesus demands it, I assume he'd also expect his believers to help pay for it when the pastor does it. Otherwise, they're pretty hypocritical -- After all, the congregation determines the pastor's salary. It would be pretty dodgy behavior to put him into a bind -- "We won't pay you enough to support 9 kids -- but if you don't have as many kids as possible, you're disobeying Jesus's key injunction."
 

Yet another example of how and why their various "beliefs and principles" don't add up. 

 

Here are some pictures of the Caldwells' church.

Illustrate how unlikely it is to be a money-making operation.  THe links work. But you have to copy/paste them. Not click. 

https://www.facebook.com/Lighthouse-Baptist-Church-106382877425342/photos/365468471516780

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x87c968dc7122bc41%3A0x10d21dde259c8f1b!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOR6ujpFykrx5hC-fxZtpNqQ3uze5VuZ5HqS45w%3Dw170-h128-k-no!5slighthouse baptist church fayetteville - Google Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipOR6ujpFykrx5hC-fxZtpNqQ3uze5VuZ5HqS45w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM8b-m-unvAhWVFVkFHaNQDDcQoiowEnoECB0QAw

By the way, they did some kind and level of reno on their church building last year. And I think one of the rumors said something about a rift began between PC and JB last year regarding the church nursery?

So maybe there was a falling out about the plans for that, or who was paying what for that, or even the theology of that, I suppose (not that JB knows anything about theology but I'll bet he'd still argue theology if it seemed to involve a difference in costs or treading on the toes of some Gothard pronouncement or something.....As far as I know, the Caldwells haven't really been Gothardites...)

Edited April 7, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Normades]

4 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

All true. Of course JB lives in a house he essentially got for free, too! 

 

Yes, but that's JimBoob, and as we all know:  Duggars do things a little bit differently. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Normades
typo

[Tikichick]

Maybe Caldwell was doing mechanic work for the car lot in trade for rent?    I can see issues arising if he wasn't willing to work for the rate of pay JB pays his offspring.  

Complete speculation.   Only found out yesterday Caldwells lived in a Duggar owned home and he had also worked as a mechanic at some point.  Just found out a couple posts up that they're expecting another baby.   Maybe I did hear about the baby before, maybe it was the last baby I'm remembering?   There's just too many for me to keep straight to be honest. 

[Churchhoney]

1 minute ago, Normades said:

Yes, but that's JimBoob, and as we all know:  Duggars do things a little bit differently. 

Yeah, and the way they do it different(ly) is this -- One rule for me and another for thee!  😁

[Jynnan tonnix]

14 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

All true. Of course JB lives in a house he essentially got for free, too! 

Plus, of course, they all believe, including Mr. Possibly High Dudgeon Jim Bob and Joe, who may well find himself in an equivalent position somewhere down the line, that Jesus demands that you on no account stop the baby train. Wouldn't be seemly for them to ask a preacher to stop it, just so he wouldn't cost them any more money.  If Jesus demands it, I assume he'd also expect his believers to help pay for it! 

Yet another example of how and why their various "beliefs and principles" don't add up. 

 

Here are some pictures of the Caldwell's church.

Illustrate how unlikely it is to be a money-making operation.  THe links work. But you have to copy/paste them. Not click. 

https://www.facebook.com/Lighthouse-Baptist-Church-106382877425342/photos/365468471516780

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x87c968dc7122bc41%3A0x10d21dde259c8f1b!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOR6ujpFykrx5hC-fxZtpNqQ3uze5VuZ5HqS45w%3Dw170-h128-k-no!5slighthouse baptist church fayetteville - Google Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipOR6ujpFykrx5hC-fxZtpNqQ3uze5VuZ5HqS45w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM8b-m-unvAhWVFVkFHaNQDDcQoiowEnoECB0QAw

Clicking them worked fine for me.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Clicking them worked fine for me.

Your clicker is working better than mine then! Thanks for the info! 🙂

Edited April 6, 2021 by Churchhoney

[libgirl2]

37 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Clicking them worked fine for me.

Me too. That is a small church. It is basically a living room. 

[SMama]

14 minutes ago, not you again said:

I wonder if the church nursery that Jessa and some of her worker bees were renovating is the same church nursery the falling out was over.  🤔

Why would it cause a fall out? I don’t watch; was it that bad?

[leighdear]

I don't get why everybody wants all these folks to give Jim Bob money.   

I absolutely adore the idea of all these people sponging off of him in some way.  I love his kids getting things from him, then passing them on to seemingly random folks for free.  I live to see others, especially those marrying into the family, taking some of what Jim Bob has spent decades building. 

Every Duggar child that gets married gets some advantage.  It's unbelievably entertaining to me every time an asset, car lot, house or piece of property legally slips out of Jim Bob's hands and drifts off into somebody else's.   

They all live where, and the way they choose to live.  They feed, clothe & house their families.  

But I don't think Jim Bob has even a fraction of the influence on his adult family members as many think he has.    I think he has to buy the love of his family.  And it amuses me. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by leighdear

[Tikichick]

I can't see a source for the income and lifestyles of JB's children without JB as part of the equation.   I find it impossible to believe that the same person who still talks to his married adult children who are parents themselves as if they need to be quiet, gather 'round and listen to what he's got to tell them like they did when they were children is simply going to dole out money to those same adult children and retain no control.   

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I can't see a source for the income and lifestyles of JB's children without JB as part of the equation.   I find it impossible to believe that the same person who still talks to his married adult children who are parents themselves as if they need to be quiet, gather 'round and listen to what he's got to tell them like they did when they were children is simply going to dole out money to those same adult children and retain no control.   

Yep. That house Joe and Kendra built? I'd swear on my cat's head that the money came from Jim Bob...with strings attached. 

[crazy8s]

3 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Yep. That house Joe and Kendra built? I'd swear on my cat's head that the money came from Jim Bob...with strings attached. 

yep - like Joe remains the Principal Broker at the Duggar location of Good Neighbor Realty that has 0 listings. even with Joe, Jed, Jeer and JB listed for a location at 5** F Arbor Acres Ave. seems to be a smaller warehouse between the Josh/Anna Warehouse Building and the TTH. maybe...

In trying to find the actually building, I came across and interesting fact. Matthew Waller, age 23,  TFDW's youngest brother registered to vote from that address in 2019. his voting record says inactive, so maybe he never actually voted. It was a weird name to stumble across for that address.

[CouchTater]

Every time I come to Joe and Kendra's thread the title gets me.  They've clearly moved past side hugs.  

Would it be possible to change their thread title?  I'm not creative, so I have no good ideas, but I'm sure some of you do!  Just a thought..

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Every time I come to Joe and Kendra's thread the title gets me.  They've clearly moved past side hugs.  

Would it be possible to change their thread title?  I'm not creative, so I have no good ideas, but I'm sure some of you do!  Just a thought..

Joe and Kendra: They Should Go Back to Side Hugs.

[CouchTater]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Joe and Kendra: They Should Go Back to Side Hugs.

Nailed it on the first try!  Thank you @GeeGolly

[CouchTater]

6 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Nailed it on the first try!  Thank you @GeeGolly

Quoting myself to say maybe I came up with the next couple's thread title.  Hee hee.

[GeeGolly]

14 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Quoting myself to say maybe I came up with the next couple's thread title.  Hee hee.

Yes, you did!

[galaxygirl76]

On 4/5/2021 at 4:15 PM, Tikichick said:

When I hear JB and falling out with anybody my intuition tells me his money or his control have been threatened.

Yep, we all know Boob wants to be Head Boob In Charge.

[ozziemom]

IIRC the church nursery that Jessa fixed up involved her (and Jana?) removing some paintings or pictures that had been there for ages. And done by another church lady. So perhaps the changes were not welcome. I think Jessa brought in a rug she didn’t want anymore too. Not everyone appreciates Duggar decorating skills I guess. So I’m not sure this has anything to do with the problem between Boob and Pastor Caldwell. It probably has more to do with money. I believe @Zella has said everyone in NWA knows not to get between Boob and a dollar, lol.

[awaken]

4 hours ago, ozziemom said:

IIRC the church nursery that Jessa fixed up involved her (and Jana?) removing some paintings or pictures that had been there for ages. And done by another church lady. So perhaps the changes were not welcome. I think Jessa brought in a rug she didn’t want anymore too. Not everyone appreciates Duggar decorating skills I guess. So I’m not sure this has anything to do with the problem between Boob and Pastor Caldwell. It probably has more to do with money. I believe @Zella has said everyone in NWA knows not to get between Boob and a dollar, lol.

I think the church nursery jessa decorated was for the church Bin supposedly works at. 

[emmawoodhouse]

35 minutes ago, awaken said:

I think the church nursery jessa decorated was for the church Bin supposedly works at. 

It was never made clear whose church it was. Jessa could well have volunteered to redo the Caldwell nursery. I think she made it into a YouTube video.

Edited April 7, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[ginger90]

Baby shower for Kendra’s mom, 10 pictures:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNgiJIIM2cp/?hl=en

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Baby shower for Kendra’s mom, 10 pictures:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNgiJIIM2cp/?hl=en

A baby shower for a NINTH kid? Crass and probably wholly unnecessary. She doesn't already have baby gear? 

ETA: I see someone brought that up in the comments, and predictably was called a troll. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Heathen

[iwantcookies]

It’s sad that they are having a 9th kid and live in Kendra’s house. Having all these kids with no means to support them. Guess Jim Bob/Jesus will provide.

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Baby shower for Kendra’s mom, 10 pictures:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNgiJIIM2cp/?hl=en

With all the baby showers, wedding showers, gender reveal parties, engagement parties, and oatmeal weed photography sessions from these people, it's no wonder that none of them have real jobs - there's simply not enough time in the day for a 9 - 5.

[MargeGunderson]

4 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

With all the baby showers, wedding showers, gender reveal parties, engagement parties, and oatmeal weed photography sessions from these people, it's no wonder that none of them have real jobs - there's simply not enough time in the day for a 9 - 5.

Oatmeal weed photography session is the perfect way to describe it! And I hate it so much.

[libgirl2]

56 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

It’s sad that they are having a 9th kid and live in Kendra’s house. Having all these kids with no means to support them. Guess Jim Bob/Jesus will provide.

And that is why the need a baby shower! The food looks great and everything but its your ninth kid. Don't you have everything already? Maybe they sold it all to pay their bills. Morons. Can't afford to take care of your family, living in your daughter's house and sucking the teat of JB. 

[GeeGolly]

I can see someone throwing a shower for the 9th kid, if the 8th was four or five years ago, but their 8th kid is around 2 years old. 

It makes more sense to throw Kendra a shower because her kids are so close, they haven't grown out of the big stuff yet, like carseats, cribs, highchairs, etc.

[beckie]

How old is the youngest daughter presently? They might just be having a shower to get girls stuff, cuz the baby has to look like a girl. Heaven forbid she has to wear stuff worn by brothers.

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, beckie said:

How old is the youngest daughter presently? They might just be having a shower to get girls stuff, cuz the baby has to look like a girl. Heaven forbid she has to wear stuff worn by brothers.

Of course! 

[crazy8s]

17 minutes ago, beckie said:

How old is the youngest daughter presently? They might just be having a shower to get girls stuff, cuz the baby has to look like a girl. Heaven forbid she has to wear stuff worn by brothers.

i think the youngest girl is about 10.

so they need to update for a baby girl in the pumpkin/oatmeal/blue clothing and all

[laurakaye]

Kendra and her mom can just swap baby clothes back and forth for the next five or six babies - no real need to have another Pinterest baby shower.

[Churchhoney]

I don't agree with anything these people do (more or less). But I think we're confused about how a pastor earns his money and what role the congregation plays in that. And what level of hypocrisy JB and his fellow super-Christians are showing, if indeed they're making it hard for their pastor to have a large number of children. 

JB has been among the congregants who fervently believe that Jesus commands these particular people to have as many children they can. For the sake of bringing about Jesus's glorious eternal reign over this planet. 

JB got a free house from a tv show and he got it because he had kids in the double digits at the time and planned to continue having more. Moreover, JB believes -- or at least pretends to himself that he believes --that he was rewarded with the show and the house because he has faithfully and continuously made it his mission to follow this direct commandment from God.

And I'm quite sure that JB would consider a pastor of his a Jesus-denying hypocrite if he didn't preach this thing about raising a Christian army for Jesus by eschewing birth control and hey hey heying with his wife whenever he gets the opportunity. 

That being the case, Caldwell's congregants who want him to preach against birth control and homosexuality and for husband-dominated families in which the wife is always joyfully available without BC need to pay their pastor what it takes for him to follow that commandment in his own family. If he did not follow that commandment, JB and his ilk quite likely would consider him a hypocrite who isn't good pastor material. 

But pastors only make their living by preaching and pastoring a congregation. And there's no other source for their income.  If congregants want a church that preaches patriarchy with many children for the sake of Jesus's Heavenly Kingdom, then they need to pay their pastor enough to let him practice what he preaches (which is what they want him to preach). 

Otherwise, they're just saying that sleazy real-estate investors have the luxury of following Jesus's top commandment. But that said real-estate investors can go right ahead and make it nigh impossible for their pastors to follow that same commandment -- a major major Commandment that condemns you to hell if you break it, on their view -- because they don't feel like paying him enough to follow Jesus's orders. Even though they're proud as hell of following those orders themselves. 

 

 

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

But pastors only make their living by preaching and pastoring a congregation.

I think many of them would see this within the vein of the tentmaker model. If Paul can make tents while he's spreading the Gospel, they can also have a regular 9-5 job. 

As I've said on here before, I went to a mixture of Pentecostal and Baptist churches as a child (more the former than anything) else, and the idea that a church is going to pay enough to support one person, let alone a family, is just absolutely foreign to me. I know it happens in more established mainline denominations, but it's not something that you're going to see in an independent church. Even if nobody is being a hypocritical asshole, I am not sure there would necessarily be the funds to do this for many churches. 

It certainly can be a situation ripe for abuse of that--with preachers who leech and churches who take advantage of virtually free labor--but I have also read some real horror stories from salaried preachers who felt like their congregation treated them like their bitch, so it cuts both ways. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Zella

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I think many of them would see this within the vein of the tentmaker model. If Paul can make tents while he's spreading the Gospel, they can also have a regular 9-5 job. 

As I've said on here before, I went to a mixture of Pentecostal and Baptist churches as a child (more the former than anything) else, and the idea that a church is going to pay enough to support one person, let alone a family, is just absolutely foreign to me. I know it happens in more established mainline denominations, but it's not something that you're going to see in an independent church. Even if nobody is being a hypocritical asshole, I am not sure there would necessarily be the funds to do this for many churches. 

It certainly can be a situation ripe for abuse of that--with preachers who leech and churches who take advantage of virtually free labor--but I have also read some real horror stories from salaried preachers who felt like their congregation treated them like their bitch, so it cuts both ways. 

Oh, yeah, I agree.

And it definitely cuts both ways. .....And, in fact, Caldwell was preacher-mechanic at one time -- so he did go with the tentmaker model once upon a time -- until he got sick of working two jobs and decided he was too good for that, probably! 

But I do think that the way I'm talking about it is the way of cutting that we ignore, and that we shouldn't ignore it. After all, people with money go to churches and believe they need pastors, too, not just people who don't have much money.

I just sense that we're happy to tell the pastor to get the second job but we're ignoring the scenario in which somebody like Jim Bob (who has some money and has gotten a ton of freebies in his life based on pumping out kiddies for Jesus) sees Jesus's rule as good for those with cash but likely doesn't give a second's thought to whether he needs to fork over enough of his cash to make the rule something the pastor can afford to abide by, too. ..... If you're the moneyed guy in the church -- and your Jesus loves you for having a ton of kids -- then is it right for you to be so chintzy that your pastor can't afford to do the super-godly thing that God loves you for doing? I think not! ....

I really really don't see JB as the poor victim here who's had to support the pastor even though the pastor should make his own damn living.....The pastor's there for the congregation. That's his job. So if they can pay him, they should.....Whole different thing if the congregation has difficulty paying the guy. 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Normades]

22 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I just sense that we're happy to tell the pastor to get the second job but we're ignoring the scenario in which somebody like Jim Bob (who has some money and has gotten a ton of freebies in his life based on pumping out kiddies for Jesus) sees Jesus's rule as good for those with cash but likely doesn't give a second's thought to whether he needs to fork over enough of his cash to make the rule something the pastor can afford to abide by, too. ..... If you're the moneyed guy in the church -- and your Jesus loves you for having a ton of kids -- then is it right for you to be so chintzy that your pastor can't afford to do the super-godly thing that God loves you for doing? I think not! ...

I agree.  Also, don't most churches ask you to tithe 10% of your income?  I seriously doubt JimBoob has ever done that. 

[Zella]

26 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Oh, yeah, I agree.

And it definitely cuts both ways. .....And, in fact, Caldwell was preacher-mechanic at one time -- so he did go with the tentmaker model once upon a time -- until he got sick of working two jobs and decided he was too good for that, probably! 

But I do think that the way I'm talking about it is the way of cutting that we ignore, and that we shouldn't ignore it. After all, people with money go to churches and believe they need pastors, too, not just people who don't have much money.

I just sense that we're happy to tell the pastor to get the second job but we're ignoring the scenario in which somebody like Jim Bob (who has some money and has gotten a ton of freebies in his life based on pumping out kiddies for Jesus) sees Jesus's rule as good for those with cash but likely doesn't give a second's thought to whether he needs to fork over enough of his cash to make the rule something the pastor can afford to abide by, too. ..... If you're the moneyed guy in the church -- and your Jesus loves you for having a ton of kids -- then is it right for you to be so chintzy that your pastor can't afford to do the super-godly thing that God loves you for doing? I think not! ....

I really really don't see JB as the poor victim here who's had to support the pastor even though the pastor should make his own damn living.....The pastor's there for the congregation. That's his job. So if they can pay him, they should.....Whole different thing if the congregation has difficulty paying the guy. 

 

But if they are following Biblical tithing rules, then everyone should be forking over 10%, so there would be an equal burden on everyone, not just the poor or the rich who attend.

Ultimately, what I have seen in these tentmaker situations is that the preacher/pastor, no matter how nice of a guy he is and how much he cares for his congregation, is not devoting enough time per week to merit a salary that's going to feed a family without a second job. It's not like they have office hours and are putting in 40 hours a week as a preacher, especially since most of them have small congregations. 

And nothing is stopping pastors like the Caldwells from getting freebies just like Jim Bob did. In the churches I've gone to, it isn't uncommon for other members to feel compelled to give money or freebies to the preacher's family, either because they feel pressured to or simply because they think he deserves it. 

I think Jim Bob is a cheapskate and an asshole of the highest order, but I don't really feel like there's some injustice being done to Caldwell for him to have to work on top of preaching to support his large family. 

[Absolom]

Caldwell knew what he was going into moving to Arkansas to "plant" a church.  Odds are not great it will become the newest megachurch in town.  The Caldwells do appear to at some point to have become quiverful but that may not have always been part of their theology.  It isn't a universal fundie thing.

Regarding Jim Bob funding the pastor to the level of supporting Caldwell's family size, if the Duggars are the only wealthy family in the church, that's a path better left untouched.  I've seen churches where one family held the purse strings.  It isn't pretty and sounds a bit like what may have happened already.  The purse holder thinks he calls the shots and when (not if it's always when) a disagreement arises, they think the money talks loudest and if it doesn't, they walk.  A lot of the time the church folds because it's been too dependent on one source of income.

[Future Cat Lady]

10 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Baby shower for Kendra’s mom, 10 pictures:

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNgiJIIM2cp/?hl=en

That's way more classy than any Duggar party. 

[Churchhoney]

17 hours ago, Zella said:

But if they are following Biblical tithing rules, then everyone should be forking over 10%, so there would be an equal burden on everyone, not just the poor or the rich who attend.

Ultimately, what I have seen in these tentmaker situations is that the preacher/pastor, no matter how nice of a guy he is and how much he cares for his congregation, is not devoting enough time per week to merit a salary that's going to feed a family without a second job. It's not like they have office hours and are putting in 40 hours a week as a preacher, especially since most of them have small congregations. 

And nothing is stopping pastors like the Caldwells from getting freebies just like Jim Bob did. In the churches I've gone to, it isn't uncommon for other members to feel compelled to give money or freebies to the preacher's family, either because they feel pressured to or simply because they think he deserves it. 

I think Jim Bob is a cheapskate and an asshole of the highest order, but I don't really feel like there's some injustice being done to Caldwell for him to have to work on top of preaching to support his large family. 

I agree! 

All I object to is the idea that Caldwell is uniquely an asshole who should just stop having kids while Jim Bob is a poor victim if he has to help a pastor afford the same luxury he enjoys -- the ton of kids whose existence he thinks is buying him and Meeechelle a golden throne at the right hand of God. That was my sense of how the conversation here was tending, and I think that's a big oversimplification. 

Caldwell should get a second job so he's working full time, if he's not doing that already. But if he is working full time for a church that believes you only get Jesus's full approval if you have as many kids as you can produce, then a church that embraces that belief should either help him pay for a big family or cut his hours so he can get a second paycheck to pay for it himself. 

Then suppose it turns out to be economically unrealistic for a congregation like theirs to pay their pastor enough -- or give him enough time off to earn the money elsewhere -- to afford kids at the rate of a rich real-estate investor with a tv freakshow? 

In that case, shouldn't the whole gang carefully reconsider whether their belief that only people who never practice birth control win Jesus's full approval and that this tenet should be preached from the pulpit and in the Sunday school and at Wednesday-night church, etc.?

Do they really believe in a Jesus who reserves his full blessing for those who have a number of kids that only rich people can afford? I'd like to see JB and M, in particular, slammed up against that question until they come up with an honest, realistic answer to it. They've pushed this belief forever without giving a single thought to its consequences for anybody beside themselves, including their own children one day. 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

Just now, Churchhoney said:

I agree! 

All I object to is the idea that Caldwell is uniquely an asshole who should just stop having kids while Jim Bob is a poor victim if he has to help a pastor afford the same luxury he enjoys -- the ton of kids whose existence he thinks is buying him and Meeechelle a golden throne at the right hand of God. That was my sense of how the conversation here was tending, and I think that's a big oversimplification. 

Caldwell should get a second job so he's working full time, if he's not doing that already. But if he is working full time for a church that believes you only get Jesus's full approval if you have as many kids as you can produce, then a church that embraces that belief should either help him pay for a big family or cut his hours so he can get a second paycheck to pay for it himself. 

Then suppose it turns out to be economically unrealistic for a congregation like theirs to pay their pastor enough -- or give him enough time off to earn the money elsewhere -- to afford kids at the rate of a rich real-estate investor with a tv freakshow? 

In that case, shouldn't the whole gang carefully reconsider whether their belief that only people who never practice birth control win Jesus's full approval and that this tenet should be preached from the pulpit and in the Sunday school?

Do they really believe in a Jesus who reserves his full blessing for those who have a number of kids that only rich people can afford? I'd like to see JB and M, in particular, slammed up against that question until they come up with an honest, realistic answer to it. They've pushed this belief forever without giving a single thought to its consequences for anybody beside themselves, including their own children one day. 

A

Ah I see the point you are making specifically now and am sorry for being slow on the uptake. 

My guess is Caldwell and Jim Bob are both assholes who deserve each other, and any conflict between them was sort of inevitable. LOL 

[Churchhoney]

26 minutes ago, Zella said:

Ah I see the point you are making specifically now and am sorry for being slow on the uptake. 

My guess is Caldwell and Jim Bob are both assholes who deserve each other, and any conflict between them was sort of inevitable. LOL 

You aren't slow on the uptake! Everything you're saying is of great value and ought to be said.

 I'm just making a weird sideways point that nobody would expect somebody to make. I do that a lot! 

Totally agree about the two bros. .... I actually think Caldwell decided to plant the church where he did so he and JB could become besties and help each other gain the temporal power required to push their "spiritual" notions. Because otherwise why not pick a place for your plant church that doesn't already have the greatest concentration of IFB and other Baptist churches in the whole country?  (....he saw the forest but completely missed all those trees! ... thus leading to his current dilemma...) 

So, yeah -- conflict absolutely inevitable! I only wish I thought JB got more pain from his various conflicts......😁

Edited April 13, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Heathen]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:40 AM, SMama said:

Perhaps the Caldwells should stop the baby train and take care of the children they have. They can also sell their boat and start paying rent. JB worships at the altar of money so he must be furious if the Caldwells are living rent free. Again, very generous of Joe and Kendra to make that sacrifice but at a point is going to get old. 

I wonder if the Caldwells guilted Joe and Kendra into giving up their new, bigger house. I can see both Joe and Kendra being easily manipulated into doing so, by either set of parents. They both strike me as go-along-to-get-along types. 

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

I wonder if the Caldwells guilted Joe and Kendra into giving up their new, bigger house. I can see both Joe and Kendra being easily manipulated into doing so, by either set of parents. They both strike me as go-along-to-get-along types. 

Of course they did . . .

[cmr2014]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

JB got a free house from a tv show and he got it because he had kids in the double digits at the time and planned to continue having more. Moreover, JB believes -- or at least pretends to himself that he believes --that he was rewarded with the show and the house because he has faithfully and continuously made it his mission to follow this direct commandment from God.

I find this all very confusing because JB's beliefs about all of this sound A LOT (exactly) like prosperity gospel. I know that JB and the Duggar adjacents are all anti-prosperity gospel, but I don't understand the difference between "be the right kind of Christian and get prizes from God" and "be the right kind of Christian and get prizes from God."

[Chicklet]

1 minute ago, cmr2014 said:

I find this all very confusing because JB's beliefs about all of this sound A LOT (exactly) like prosperity gospel. I know that JB and the Duggar adjacents are all anti-prosperity gospel, but I don't understand the difference between "be the right kind of Christian and get prizes from God" and "be the right kind of Christian and get prizes from God."

You just have to be the right kind of Christian evidently.

[Churchhoney]

55 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I find this all very confusing because JB's beliefs about all of this sound A LOT (exactly) like prosperity gospel. I know that JB and the Duggar adjacents are all anti-prosperity gospel, but I don't understand the difference between "be the right kind of Christian and get prizes from God" and "be the right kind of Christian and get prizes from God."

Well, my feeling is  that almost all of them think that God rewards them all the time, with stuff and with whatever. 

I think they hate the prosperity gospel because it was initially designed to appeal to and bring to Christ poor people and, especially, people with skin in colors they despise. (Now it's 100 percent grifting by pastors, I think...)  Plus, it's upfront about proclaiming something that they believe in  too but on the downlow, in what they think is a classier way-- that if you get stuff in America as a Christian it's because God thinks you're great and is gifting stuff to you. (See MacArthur, John... And Gothard, Bill....among many others) 

 

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

I wonder if the Caldwells guilted Joe and Kendra into giving up their new, bigger house. I can see both Joe and Kendra being easily manipulated into doing so, by either set of parents. They both strike me as go-along-to-get-along types. 

And that's why they're probably the "favorites" of all four parents. Their parents are all manipulative grifters who can see sweet little suckers coming a mile away. 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Temperance]

How the Duggars anti-prosperity gospel? Baptist churches historically embraced prosperity gospel, for a long time. It's designed to get rich people in the pews.

As for the Caldwells, I can't blame them for moving to Arkansas. It's a lot cheaper than northern Virginia and I would think they were more likely to find like-minded people there.

[cmr2014]

17 minutes ago, Temperance said:

How the Duggars anti-prosperity gospel? Baptist churches historically embraced prosperity gospel, for a long time. It's designed to get rich people in the pews.

As for the Caldwells, I can't blame them for moving to Arkansas. It's a lot cheaper than northern Virginia and I would think they were more likely to find like-minded people there.

I know that MacArthur is, and I think that I have heard disparaging comments about it from other Duggar-adjacents. It makes no sense to me at all because they all believe that God awards money, big houses, and speed boats to people who believe the right way, but some people call that "prosperity gospel" and other people (with the same beliefs) are wildly offended if you suggest that they believe in "prosperity gospel."

https://www.gty.org/library/topical-series-library/33/unmasking-the-prosperity-gospel