Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Tabbygirl521]

On 3/2/2018 at 9:02 PM, MichaelaRae said:

I'm just going to throw this out there, as someone who never believed the Joy and Austin broke the courtship rules rumors...that seems to be a particularly alert and active "<1 week old" baby .When I look at that kid, he seems very...3-4 weeks old, and I'm not talking size, I'm talking activity and alertness. But I am not a doctor and  haven't spent a day watching one, so that makes me not a Duggar expert.

I didn’t want to say this but I thought the same...

[Jynnan tonnix]

41 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I didn’t want to say this but I thought the same...

I don't think we'll ever know for sure, though if he was born in a hospital there would at least be a birth certificate with the actual date of birth on it. As much as she started showing much earlier than average, the baby was pretty big, and looks very alert and active in the photos, none of these things is unheard of. Though the phrase "alert and active" isn't generally seen too often in conjunction with "Duggars", the baby IS a Forsyth, and they seem to have a little more in the way of energy and initiative than the typical Duggar.

At any rate, I don't tend to thing there is really anything in the premarital sex rumors. It's fun to speculate, but realistically I think they are all such Kool-Aid drinkers in addition to being pretty closely monitored at all times during the courtship that it would have taken a huge breach in both their morals and opportunity for anything to have happened.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Jynnan tonnix

[lianau]

3 hours ago, Genevrier said:

If that’s Amy’s photo, People needed a license to run it. Who here thinks Amy gave it away for free? 

Derick ?

[Lunera]

4 hours ago, Genevrier said:

If that’s Amy’s photo, People needed a license to run it. Who here thinks Amy gave it away for free? 

I think because she posted it on her open (at the time) Instagram page anyone is allowed to share it.

[humbleopinion]

Any picture with Famy in it is automatically worth less... and worthless.

[TresGatos]

20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Diana, Princess of Wales, took both her sons home a day after birth.  I used to tell new moms that the reason she went home so soon was because she was a Princess who lived in a Palace and had more help at home than at the hospital.  I'd tell them that, unless able to emulate Princess Diana, stay at the hospital as long as possible.

Princess Diana broke with royal tradition when she gave birth in a hospital https://www.history.com/news/history-lists/7-surprising-facts-about-royal-births

It's rumored Kate will give birth to her 3rd at home but of course with royal home births there is a wing fitted out like a hospital.

[lianau]

I doubt Kate will have a home birth .  She was rumored to have home births with George and Charlotte too . It's just click bait gossip .

[doodlebug]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 4:35 PM, TresGatos said:

Princess Diana broke with royal tradition when she gave birth in a hospital https://www.history.com/news/history-lists/7-surprising-facts-about-royal-births

It's rumored Kate will give birth to her 3rd at home but of course with royal home births there is a wing fitted out like a hospital.

As anyone who watches The Crown knows, all of the current Queen's kids were born in the palace.  Her father, King George, had surgery for lung cancer done in the palace.  Back in the old days, royalty just didn't do hospitals.

[Genevrier]

On 3/9/2018 at 2:09 PM, Lunera said:

I think because she posted it on her open (at the time) Instagram page anyone is allowed to share it.

Yes, but if they use it in a for-profit manner, they still have to pay her or she has to waive payment.

[Mollie]

Someone posted on Pickles that there is a webisode about Joy giving birth to Gideon.  The poster said that Joy started out with a homebirth with a midwife and Michelle, Jana, Jill, Johanna, Austin's mom, and Austin's sister.  After 20 hours of labor, the midwife realized that the baby was breech and Joy was taken to the hospital for an emergency C-section.  Maybe Jill should invest in better "medical things."

Edited March 12, 2018 by Mollie

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Mollie said:

Someone posted on Pickles that there is a webisode about Joy giving birth to Gideon.  The poster said that Joy started out with a homebirth with a midwife and Michelle, Jana, Jill, Johanna, Austin's mom, and Austin's sister.  After 20 hours of labor, the midwife realized that the baby was breech and Joy was taken to the hospital for an emergency C-section.

Sounds very similar to sister-mom Jill's birth to Izzy. Do they get one 20 week vanity scan and never get another? And why can't these mid-wives determine the babies positions?

I don't know about them, and less important than the safety of mom & baby, but if I'm going to need a c-section, I'd prefer to forego labor.

[McManda]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know about them, and less important than the safety of mom & baby, but if I'm going to need a c-section, I'd prefer to forego labor.

Safety of mom and baby is obviously most important, but when given the choice of a vacuum assist or a c-section after her daughter wasn't progressing like she should, a co-worker choose the vacuum assist because she said she hadn't been through fifteen hours of labor for nothing. (She and her daughter were fine, and she also mentioned had she been offered a C section before those fifteen hours of labor she likely would have chosen differently.)

But I agree ... I'm not going through hours of labor for ultimately nothing unless I absolutely have to and a C section is my only reasonable option.

I had another coworker whose wife had twins - one vaginally and the second by emergency c section. That sounds awful.

[Temperance]

It's available if you have TLC TO GO which I don't.  Two webisodes. The still from the second episode looks like a c section to me. Blue sheets covering everything except Joy and the baby. 

Does anyone have TLC to go and is willing to watch? I went over to FJ and found they're talking about the news. I assume a few of them have TLCTOGO. 

This news makes me sad. Why do the Duggars keep taking such risks with their daughters/selves/wives and their grandchildren/children?

Joy didn't even have a vanity ultrasound for the gender. She wanted to be surprised. (Meaning not that everyone should find out the gender or have a vanity ultrasound, but she may not have had an ultrasound.)

I'm depressed by this news. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Temperance

[Absolom]

34 minutes ago, Mollie said:

after 20 hours of labor, the midwife realized that the baby was breech and Joy was taken to the hospital for an emergency C-section.

I'm wondering about the labor times again.  On the webisode I watched I thought it said labor began around 4 AM and Gideon was delivered before 4 PM.  That's closer to 12 than 20. They really need some new midwives to figure out the positioning of the baby a lot sooner.

[Mollie]

Of the Duggar daughters, we have one successful homebirth (Jessa with Henry Wilberforce) and four failed homebirths that ended in hospitalization.  Conclusion:  Duggar daughters have an 80% chance of having a failed homebirthing experience.  Do you think they will learn something from this?  I don't.  Because it keeps happening!

Edited March 12, 2018 by Mollie
Jessa's apparently successful homebirth was with her second baby, not with Spurgeon.

[birkenstock]

I just watched - the first ten minutes is meal prep for Joy and Austin.  Jana, Michelle and Austin's mom help Joy prepare enchiladas and some other casserole dishes.  Joy says that she hopes the baby likes spicy food because that's what she likes and is going to eat.  Jessa is also there but sits on the couch with Henry.  She doesn't look visibly pregnant to me though she is wearing a baggy blue cardigan. Joy and Austin don't tell the baby names they have planned because they don't want to hear other people's opinions on the name and want to introduce the baby with the name.  Michelle is featured a shit ton and talks about Joy's birth.  Michelle thinks the baby is going to be an 8 pounder.  Jessa and Michelle also tell Joy she hasn't gained that much weight.

The second episode features the birth.  I felt terrible seeing her in pain.  Jim Bob and Michelle are also featured in this. We don't see the midwife, only Jill who I think tells Joy that the way she's progressing is a blessing.  They end up transporting Joy to a hospital 20-30 minutes away from the Forsythe house.  Everyone genuinely doesn't know if it's a boy or a girl.  She goes in for the surgery and delivers Gideon - he's perfectly healthy in an open bassinet. As she and the baby are wheeled into recovery, the grandparents stop the bassinet and look at him.  They say he looks like the Forsythes.  Joy points out he has Austin's nostrils (I thought the way she said it was funny).  At the Duggar house, John David sets off a blue confetti cannon and Henry spits up looking at a picture of Gideon. I think that's the big things. Just featured a lot of JB and Michelle.  Austin looked thrilled- his face was beaming and really nice to see. Poor Joy was thanking fans in the video she shot herself right after giving birth.     

ETA: Austin's mom also had to have an emergency c-section because Austin was breech.

Edited March 12, 2018 by birkenstock

[Temperance]

1 minute ago, Mollie said:

Of the Duggar daughters, we have one successful homebirth (Jessa with Spurgeon  Henry) and four failed homebirths that ended in hospitalization.  Conclusion:  Duggar daughters have an 80% chance of having a failed homebirthing experience.  Do you think they will learn something from this?  I don't.  Because it keeps happening!

fixed for you.

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I'm wondering about the labor times again.  On the webisode I watched I thought it said labor began around 4 AM and Gideon was delivered before 4 PM.  That's closer to 12 than 20. They really need some new midwives to figure out the positioning of the baby a lot sooner.

No, they said they CALLED the TTH at 4 am, and at that point she was dialated to 6. Dr. Jill was there, resplendent in her C3 tee shirt. 

They didn't go into detail about the transportation, but when they called the TTH to report, it was light out, so it sounds like Joy stalled, and the midwife FINALLY decided to transport her. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[madpsych78]

5 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Of the Duggar daughters, we have one successful homebirth (Jessa with Spurgeon) and four failed homebirths that ended in hospitalization.  Conclusion:  Duggar daughters have an 80% chance of having a failed homebirthing experience.  Do you think they will learn something from this?  I don't.  Because it keeps happening!

You mean Jessa with Henry. I believe Jessa did deliver Spurge successfully, but it was the hemorrhaging that sent her to the hospital. 

Still, though, if Joy's labor was 12 hours total, that's actually not too bad for a first birth, especially that of a 10+ pounder. And I got to thinking, did we ever see any other Duggars with Jill when she was laboring with Izzy (other than Derick)? Jill was present during Jessa's labors and deliveries and now Joy's. Plus, several of them were present for Anna's births (at least Mack and Michael, maybe Marcus).

ETA: Even 20 hours isn't that bad for a 1st birth if it was really closer to 20.

Edited March 12, 2018 by madpsych78

[Absolom]

Yeah, I guess I missed the exact statement due to noise from the street work in front of my house.  I'm looking forward to them hitting quitting time soon.  Even so 20 hours is a reasonable length of labor, but danged Jill still can't tell a baby's position correctly and neither could the midwife (if they had a state licensed one there)?  If nothing else, hopefully they start figuring out knowing in advance the baby is poorly positioned is a good idea to save yourself from the pain of fruitless labor. 

[Annb67]

These idiots make me furious. So far Dr. Jill has had three failures of a home birth, which could have, quite possibly, led to tragedy. They are absolutely stupid.

[Sew Sumi]

19 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Yeah, I guess I missed the exact statement due to noise from the street work in front of my house.  I'm looking forward to them hitting quitting time soon.  Even so 20 hours is a reasonable length of labor, but danged Jill still can't tell a baby's position correctly and neither could the midwife (if they had a state licensed one there)?  If nothing else, hopefully they start figuring out knowing in advance the baby is poorly positioned is a good idea to save yourself from the pain of fruitless labor. 

A 10 pounder isn't going to flip in the latter stages of pregnancy. Someone (or some people...looking at you, Dr. Jill) missed this one big time. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[louannems]

I watched the two TLC TO GO webisodes.  In Joy's kitchen, prepping meals, Michelle definitely hogged the camera.  And next to Austin's mother's words, Michelle was very scripted and modulated.  Jana also made food, but she never said a word and to me, seemed sad.

Jenni was delighted at being the first to hear the gender over the phone.  JB drank endless cups of Keurig coffee while waiting for the baby.  Jackson delighted in catching and playing with the blue confetti from John David's gender bomb.  Jackson still looks and acts eight.

Joy was tearful, exhausted and defeated as she was wheeled into surgery.

Also, Ben was there along JB's working sons, assembled for prayer.

Don't babies settle into head down, engaged into the pelvis, or else breech or transverse well before birth?  Why did they make Joy go through a long, painful labor breech???

[Marigold]

so it's confirmed it was a C-section? 

[graefin]

2 minutes ago, louannems said:

Don't babies settle into head down, engaged into the pelvis, or else breech or transverse well before birth?  Why did they make Joy go through a long, painful labor breech???

Because despite being all about birthing as many babies as possible, when it comes to actual childbirth, they have no clue wtf they're doing?

[louannems]

I forgot to say that the reason they withheld the baby's name before the birth was because they did not need other people's criticism.  And people would learn to like the name!  So they knew the name would be perceived as a little odd.  Thankfully, not as odd as Spurgeon!

1 minute ago, Marigold said:

so it's confirmed it was a C-section? 

Yes, for sure an emergency C-section, as soon as she arrived to the hospital.  Also, ahead of the labor, Joy mentioned if plan B was needed, they would go to the nearest hospital, which was 30 minutes away.  So no that close.

[Sew Sumi]

3 minutes ago, Marigold said:

so it's confirmed it was a C-section? 

Yup. They had a chyron with the details of the birth during the video. 

[McManda]

11 minutes ago, louannems said:

 

I forgot to say that the reason they withheld the baby's name before the birth was because they did not need other people's criticism.

 

Isn't that a pretty common reason to withhold the name announcement until the baby is born, even with common names?

I honestly don't think Gideon is all that word of a name. In fact, I think I prefer it  to the plethora of Emmas and Olivias and Ethans and Aidens. (No offense to anyone with those names. I like those names. I don't like that there are eight other kids in the class with those same names.)

Edited March 13, 2018 by McManda

[Marigold]

Poor Joy. 

Wow, the Duggar girls are not having successful homebirths, are they?  Only jessa with Henry.   I wonder if they had proper pre-natal care and birthed in a hospital (Or birth center in a hospital) with licensed midwives or an OB, if they would've had better success? 

Obviously Michelle and her daughters are different people and everyone is unique, but Michelle had less complications and the majority of her births were in a hospital.  Michelle seemed to find qualified people to handle her deliveries while these Duggar girls have gone rogue with shaky results. 

[Mollie]

4 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Poor Joy. 

Wow, the Duggar girls are not having successful homebirths, are they?  Only jessa with Henry.   I wonder if they had proper pre-natal care and birthed in a hospital (Or birth center in a hospital) with licensed midwives or an OB, if they would've had better success? 

Obviously Michelle and her daughters are different people and everyone is unique, but Michelle had less complications and the majority of her births were in a hospital.  Michelle seemed to find qualified people to handle her deliveries while these Duggar girls have gone rogue with shaky results. 

One good thing about all of these botched homebirths is that, by televising these, it will discourage other young women from attempting to give birth at home.

[Marigold]

or at the very least, show that you MUST have proper prenatal care and qualified midwives...

"rogue" is the best word I can think of to describe these Duggar homebirths. 

[MargeGunderson]

37 minutes ago, Marigold said:

or at the very least, show that you MUST have proper prenatal care and qualified midwives...

"rogue" is the best word I can think of to describe these Duggar homebirths. 

I go with “ill-advised” or “ignorant.” But I’m bitchy like that.

[asuwur]

1 hour ago, Mollie said:

Of the Duggar daughters, we have one successful homebirth (Jessa with Henry Wilberforce) and four failed homebirths that ended in hospitalization.  Conclusion:  Duggar daughters have an 80% chance of having a failed homebirthing experience.  Do you think they will learn something from this?  I don't.  Because it keeps happening!

Poor Joy...this family is whack!

I'm betting HUGE money that Jinge will deliver complication free in a nice little birthing suite....to a girl....

 

She never appeared to care for the SisterMoms homebirthing trend and even if she's not tracking the problems of Jessa, Jill and Joy, I'm sure Baaaaabe is and cherishing a chance to break from the pack again...

[kalamac]

1 hour ago, Marigold said:

Poor Joy. 

Wow, the Duggar girls are not having successful homebirths, are they?  Only jessa with Henry.   I wonder if they had proper pre-natal care and birthed in a hospital (Or birth center in a hospital) with licensed midwives or an OB, if they would've had better success? 

Obviously Michelle and her daughters are different people and everyone is unique, but Michelle had less complications and the majority of her births were in a hospital.  Michelle seemed to find qualified people to handle her deliveries while these Duggar girls have gone rogue with shaky results. 

I think they're still encouraging the home births/Jill's involvement because if the girls go elsewhere for their care, they have to admit that Jill is in no way qualified to call herself a midwife, and The "learn a skill by watching for five minutes" Duggars can't handle that Jill is still useless, even after a bit of book learning and an exam.

[Kbo]

Dang it, they lured me into downloading the TLCGO app. Why can’t I quit these people?  

Edited March 13, 2018 by Kbo
Incoherent ramblings

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

No, they said they CALLED the TTH at 4 am, and at that point she was dialated to 6. Dr. Jill was there, resplendent in her C3 tee shirt. 

They didn't go into detail about the transportation, but when they called the TTH to report, it was light out, so it sounds like Joy stalled, and the midwife FINALLY decided to transport her. 

If a midwife did a vaginal exam and was able to tell she was 6 cm, it should’ve been reasonably easy for that same midwife to diagnose the baby as breech. It seems to me that these midwives don’t learn the sorts of critical thinking skills needed to perform a good assessment of a laboring mother.  Joy suffered unecessarily, IMO; a good midwife would’ve been assessing the baby’s size and position all along and realized the kid was both breech and huge and got her to the hospital much sooner.

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, Mollie said:

One good thing about all of these botched homebirths is that, by televising these, it will discourage other young women from attempting to give birth at home.

Yeah, what's the bad old joke?  "If you can't be a good example, at least aspire to be a terrible warning?"

[Sew Sumi]

5 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, what's the bad old joke?  "If you can't be a good example, at least aspire to be a terrible warning?"

Dr. Jill should wear this on a tee shirt. 

[CatS]

It's almost as if someone <cough, God, cough cough> is telling all of them to limit their number of kids. 

[anna0852]

So not only did they mess up *yet another birth* but freely admitted it and posted video about it?

[Sew Sumi]

It was TLC produced video, not the grainy cell phone footage we got from Jessa. There were multiple cameras at the TTH when the "gender" was announced. 

[tabloidlover]

5 hours ago, Mollie said:

Someone posted on Pickles that there is a webisode about Joy giving birth to Gideon.  The poster said that Joy started out with a homebirth with a midwife and Michelle, Jana, Jill, Johanna, Austin's mom, and Austin's sister.  After 20 hours of labor, the midwife realized that the baby was breech and Joy was taken to the hospital for an emergency C-section.  Maybe Jill should invest in better "medical things."

My apologies!   I posted this news in the Counting On and Duggard threads -- I should have checked here first!

I am convinced that Jill will continue to "pretend midwife" at family births until something goes horribly wrong (as in near fatal).   She has learned nothing from her own botched births.   She's too stupid to realize how ignorant she is.

[Zuleikha]

Of the Duggar daughters, we have one successful homebirth (Jessa with Henry Wilberforce) and four failed homebirths that ended in hospitalization.  Conclusion:  Duggar daughters have an 80% chance of having a failed homebirthing experience.

What's really scary is to think of is that without modern hospitals/Western medicine, there's a strong probability all 3 would have died. Jessa, for sure, with her hemorrhaging would have. An actual competent midwife may have been able to catch and turn Joy's breech earlier and change things, but that's still a sign that the way their community is training midwives is insufficient (and there's no midwife or doctor who can guarantee a change of a breech baby, so it's impossible to know). I forget exactly what Jill's problem was, but she needed a hospital intervention so it seems like odds aren't in her favor.

I don't believe god gives people messages about faith through childbearing and delivery. But if god did, it seems to me that god is telling them that either their behavior is not really pious or that there is no connection between piety and childbearing (and Anna's nightmare marriage already demonstrates that purity is no guarantee of perfect, wondrous marriage either).

[DragonFaerie]

2 hours ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, what's the bad old joke?  "If you can't be a good example, at least aspire to be a terrible warning?"

I think it's those that can't do, teach.  I certainly wouldn't want Jill teaching anything, not even baking banana bread.

[Sew Sumi]

It just occurred to me that TLC breaking this video was this week's Monday Surprise. 

I wonder if they had something else planned, but brought out the Big Guns to try and mitigate Derelict's tantrums? There are people on Jill's instagram still wondering when they'll be on the show. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Joy: “The nearest hospital is only like 30 minutes away if there’s an emergency.”  Does she realize how long 30 minutes is when two lives are on the line?

These girls need to start seeing real medical professionals when giving birth to human beings.  Seeing Jim Bob try to calmly tell the cameras what was happening and then break into a mild sprint for his truck was very telling of how serious the situation was.  Joy definitely got some bad advice and “medical care.” I hope Jinger and Kendra take a look at the past few births and have an excellent hospital plan. 

[floridamom]

I can't watch the Gideon birth clips. Can anyone embed them here?

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

 

What's really scary is to think of is that without modern hospitals/Western medicine, there's a strong probability all 3 would have died. Jessa, for sure, with her hemorrhaging would have. An actual competent midwife may have been able to catch and turn Joy's breech earlier and change things, but that's still a sign that the way their community is training midwives is insufficient (and there's no midwife or doctor who can guarantee a change of a breech baby, so it's impossible to know). I forget exactly what Jill's problem was, but she needed a hospital intervention so it seems like odds aren't in her favor.

 

Well, it would have just been women dying. And maybe a few babies. Lots more where they came from, right? That's got to be the underlying principle of these cultists, really. Women schwimmen. The only thing they're good for is birthin' them babies. So if they're no good for that, might as well move along to the next batch. 

[sigmaforce86]

11 hours ago, louannems said:

  JB drank endless cups of Keurig coffee while waiting for the baby. 

For some reason this really pisses me off.  There's no way JB used those re-fillable Keurig cups and his own coffee - so for all his "buy used/save the difference" lecturing over the years, we make our own laundry soap, and so on and brag on and aren't we perfect bringing up all these kids with no debt...............JB not only uses a Keurig but uses it freely.  I'm wondering how many of those little plastic k-cups Mr Clueless wasted but he's always been about satisfaction for himself before anything else and if it breaks his own rules about saving money, being responsible or pretty much anything else well that doesn't matter because those rules don't apply to the his royal headship

OK, sorry, rant over!

7 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

I am convinced that Jill will continue to "pretend midwife" at family births until something goes horribly wrong (as in near fatal).   She has learned nothing from her own botched births.   She's too stupid to realize how ignorant she is.

Jill will continue to tout her "training" and her "experience" using her time in danger america and her endless exams of her sisters which consist of the incredibly advanced medical equipment a stethoscope and a home doppler because she believes it's adequate and she wants everyone else to believe it too especially her family.  When you think about it what else does she have now?  She and Derrick are TLC failures banned to Josh land levels of a blurred face at events with a husband who has no job, no prospects and an increasingly unhinged social media presence.  If she can't pop up during her sisters pregnancy's and births by getting Joy and the rest to believe they need her what else does she have except staying at home chasing after Izzy and Sam all day and cutting her husbands meals into small bites to accommodate his ever changing jawline.  She apparently screwed up again with Joy but they'll keep inviting her back no matter how many labors end with an emergency hospital trip.  Despite it all I do feel sorry for Joy though, she's young and despite having a pretty good personality she has a lot of dominate personalities around her including her husband plus the general brainwashing of her upbringing - I have no doubt she was pushed into the home birth believing it was the right and godly thing to do and she may have suffered for it more and longer than was necessary.  

[GeeGolly]

JB was all about buy used, save the difference, when they were poor and when he blew a quarter million on a campaign. They have money now, so even though he still touts the family line, they buy whatever they want whether it's new or used.

And they ignore how their spending habits have changed, just like they ignore relaxed courting rules, pants wearing daughters, skin tight maternity wear and kidults traveling solo.