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Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

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sugarplum
sugarplum

I’m in the minority here and don’t see their posting on SM being a millennial thing, or just because they are on TV. I’ve had 3 close friends who have gone through something very similar. One was preg

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

Is that you, Michelle?

doodlebug
doodlebug

If a midwife did a vaginal exam and was able to tell she was 6 cm, it should’ve been reasonably easy for that same midwife to diagnose the baby as breech. It seems to me that these midwives don’t lear

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Tikichick

Tikichick

Considering the belief system he grew up in and the emphasis on boys being boys and girls being girls and expectations of  what manliness is, I am encouraged by the fact that Austin enthusiastically tells his child he loves him and gives him a big kiss, all on camera.   His belief system may be very unappealing to me, but I can't hate on openly expressing love for your child.

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Snow Fairy

Snow Fairy

13 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

And he’ll never learn anything with Joy as his teacher.

And a thought that came into my mind yesterday - those kids and their children, what on earth could Henry, Spurge, Gideon, Garret and the others learn their kids? They will be homeschooled by, well, idiotis. So what will they have to transfer to the next generation.

Or worse, Rod kids - what can Nurie and her sisters teach their children?

Michelle and Jim Bob went to school, they have an idea on how learning should be. Even Ben. But from there on, does it make sense?

charmed1

charmed1

(edited)

I never understood how any of these kids could call themselves “best friends.” On 19K&C they’d often talk about the girls being best friends with some other random kid from another fundy family. Anybody I was best friends with as a kid, lived nearby or we went to the same school. The Bates live in Tennessee. How often were Joy and Carlin even in the same room? Once or twice a year? I doubt cheapskate Jim Bob was letting Joy call her. Were they emailing each other? Exchanging instant messages? I guess that would essentially make them pen pals. I had a school-assigned pen pal in middle school who lived in another country, but I wouldn’t think to call her my best friend.

Edited by charmed1
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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

13 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

I never understood how any of these kids could call themselves “best friends.” On 19K&C they’d often talk about the girls being best friends with some other random kid from another fundy family. Anybody I was best friends with as a kid, lived nearby or we went to the same school. The Bates live in Tennessee. How often were Joy and Carlin even in the same room? Once or twice a year? I doubt cheapskate Jim Bob was letting Joy call her. Were they emailing each other? Exchanging instant messages? I guess that would essentially make them pen pals. I had a school-assigned pen pal in middle school who lived in another country, but I wouldn’t think to call her my best friend.

Who knows when Joy was even permitted a phone. I imagine all of her emails before that were screened by Jana or maybe even Mooch (what else does she do?).

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Zella

Zella

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I don't think they have a normal human friendship like normal people do because, well, they're not normal, but I think they are probably closer than Joy is with many of her siblings, and they do seem to have a more genuine friendship than the rest of the family seems to maintain with "sweet friends." I don't think it's an either/or thing. I think their friendship can probably be built on a fairly superficial foundation but they're still genuinely fond of each other. 

40 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

I never understood how any of these kids could call themselves “best friends.” On 19K&C they’d often talk about the girls being best friends with some other random kid from another fundy family. Anybody I was best friends with as a kid, lived nearby or we went to the same school. The Bates live in Tennessee. How often were Joy and Carlin even in the same room? Once or twice a year? I doubt cheapskate Jim Bob was letting Joy call her. Were they emailing each other? Exchanging instant messages? I guess that would essentially make them pen pals. I had a school-assigned pen pal in middle school who lived in another country, but I wouldn’t think to call her my best friend.

The problem, though, is none of them have anything normal to compare it to, so I don't find it surprising that they consider themselves best friends, despite not really spending a lot of time with each other or actually being best friends. You didn't call your pen pal a best friend because you went to school and had friends like a normal kid, so you knew what an actual best friend was. The Duggars don't have that foundation. It's no different than other aspects of a dysfunctional family or upbringing in which you think your existence is normal until you leave home and realize it wasn't. [I didn't realize how batshit crazy parts of my childhood were until I went to college and people were like "What the hell?!" when I'd tell them stories. Until you have someone who is outside your bubble and can "what the hell" you, you can grow up in some pretty weird shit and never question it.]

The Duggars and other people like them isolate their children from those outside influences to prevent that. My guess is after having to call every single person your family hangs out with "sweet friends," the one person you randomly see who is kind of your age and you actually click with would instantly be your best friend. 

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QuinnInND

QuinnInND

9 hours ago, Zella said:

[I didn't realize how batshit crazy parts of my childhood were until I went to college and people were like "What the hell?!" when I'd tell them stories. Until you have someone who is outside your bubble and can "what the hell" you, you can grow up in some pretty weird shit and never question it.]

 

This!! 

I think they throw around the terms "best friend" "sweet friend" and "precious friend" interchangeably to mean "someone we know who shares our ridiculous beliefs." 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I think Carlin has a better idea of what friendship is and Joy likely follows her lead. The Bates sisters seem to have actual friendships with each other. Friendships that occurred naturally and not forced pairings, made up by their mother.

Short of maybe her SsIL, Carlin is probably the closest friendship Joy will ever have - even if it is long distance.

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emma675

emma675

I agree with y'all, I think Carlin and Joy are genuinely friends, as much as they can be in this religion/cult. I do think Carlin is the lead girl in their friendship and that she uses Joy to prop herself up, whether she realizes she's doing it or not. The pics of the two of them a few weeks ago on that weird pile of stones cemented that for me. Carlin was dolled up to the nines and posing like an influencer next to poor, slobby looking Joy. There is a definite hierarchy in their friendship and I wonder what would happen if Joy suddenly became the hot one?

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NotthebadVictoria

NotthebadVictoria

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

I agree with y'all, I think Carlin and Joy are genuinely friends, as much as they can be in this religion/cult. I do think Carlin is the lead girl in their friendship and that she uses Joy to prop herself up, whether she realizes she's doing it or not. The pics of the two of them a few weeks ago on that weird pile of stones cemented that for me. Carlin was dolled up to the nines and posing like an influencer next to poor, slobby looking Joy. There is a definite hierarchy in their friendship and I wonder what would happen if Joy suddenly became the hot one?

Judging by Joys appearance (weight, dress and general demeanor) I don’t think that would ever happen.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

13 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think Joy is actually way more naturally attractive than Carlin. She just is way more clueless about styling herself. 

I'm not sure she cares.

One of my closest friends is very overweight, beautiful, make-up every moment, hair always done and very stylish. I'm skinny, pretty enough, bare-faced, unruly hair, and boho-ish. I have no desire to emulate her and she has no desire to emulate me. 

Joy seems content being Joy, frump and all. 

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Zella

Zella

Just now, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure she cares.

One of my closest friends is very overweight, beautiful, make-up every moment, hair always done and very stylish. I'm skinny, pretty enough, bare-faced, unruly hair, and boho-ish. I have no desire to emulate her and she has no desire to emulate me. 

Joy seems content being Joy, frump and all. 

Yeah she probably doesn't. TBH, I can't judge her for it--though those bangs and that dye job were tragic--because I also have never really given a shit about style or fashion. I don't wear makeup or style my hair and my wardrobe pretty much consists of funny (or weird or funny and weird) T-shirts and jeans. 

I was more objecting to the assumption from another poster that Carlin was obviously the hot one. She's the more polished-looking one, but I don't think that automatically makes her hot. Kind of like how Jessa was considered the hot one in their younger years, though I think she's the least attractive of the sisters in her age group. She's pretty enough, but she's no goddess. 

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rue721

rue721

I think one of the reasons Joy can give a shit about hair and makeup is because she’s gorgeous! If she were naturally fugly, she’d probably have a complex about it and put a lot more effort into her looks. Wasn’t Carlin considered the “ugly duckling”? I think she’s very pretty, too, but she might be more insecure about her looks, hence the polish. 
 

Joy is looking dowdy with her homecut hair and ratty jean skirt, but honestly, so am I. Pandemic chic, y’all.

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emma675

emma675

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I was more objecting to the assumption from another poster that Carlin was obviously the hot one. She's the more polished-looking one, but I don't think that automatically makes her hot.

Hey, that was me! 🤣 I actually think Joy is more naturally pretty than Carlin, although Carlin is pretty, too. The thing I noticed is that Carlin seems to care much more about looking polished and trendy than Joy does and it was very obvious in that pic of the two of them together. I just don't think Joy cares as much as Carlin does about clothes and makeup and style, but I think that's always been how she is. Part of me respects that and is glad Austin doesn't try to make her doll up. The petty part of me wishes she'd do it just once because I'd love to see Carlin's reaction. 

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
9 minutes ago, emma675 said:

Hey, that was me! 🤣 I actually think Joy is more naturally pretty than Carlin, although Carlin is pretty, too. The thing I noticed is that Carlin seems to care much more about looking polished and trendy than Joy does and it was very obvious in that pic of the two of them together. I just don't think Joy cares as much as Carlin does about clothes and makeup and style, but I think that's always been how she is. Part of me respects that and is glad Austin doesn't try to make her doll up. The petty part of me wishes she'd do it just once because I'd love to see Carlin's reaction. 

It wasn't you I was responding to! 🙂 I agree it would be pretty funny if she showed up to see Carlin all dazzled up just once. 😂

Edited by Zella
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