Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[sugarplum]

27 minutes ago, luvmylabs said:

Let me clarify my point.  Though I would not choose to share pictures of a deceased child on the internet, I cannot fault those who might do so.  But I wonder if Joy and Austin even realized they had a CHOICE to do this or not do it.  I think they have been conditioned to think their lives are open books and they have no need for privacy, which I think we all are entitled to if we want it.

I think the choice is in HOW they share, which will differ wildly from person to person, famous or not. Because they are in the public eye, I think it would be awfully hard to not acknowledge the loss in some way when it will be obvious she is no longer pregnant. That being said, for anyone that posts even semi-regularly and has acknowledged a pregnancy on social media, I think the same would be true. If you have announced you were pregnant, had an obvious bump, and suddenly no longer do, you can choose to not say anything, but by doing so, you are allowing others to speculate what went wrong. For some, that’s ok. They don’t mind. For others, they want to control the narrative. They want the truth out before rumors start or questions are asked. I don’t think this is exclusive to public figures or celebrities. It’s true of anyone with a semi active social media presence. 

20 minutes ago, Zella said:

To me, the fact they waited a week indicates it was not an impulsive decision on their part. 

Exactly. 

[BetyBee]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

@sugarplum, I wish I could "like" your post a thousand times. Thank you!!

Same here, Sugarplum.  I have two sisters who had full term stillbirths and even the two of them grieved differently.  Thankfully, they were permitted to hold their babies, but no one was taking such pictures in those days.  I know they would treasure such photos.  I think it was brave of Joy and Austin to share their grief.  Stillbirth is not often talked about, but it happens all too often.  Miscarriages are far more common, but also not talked about much.  When my younger sister lost her baby, I remember talking about it at my daughter's pre-school (with the moms, not the kids).  They were all so kind, except my daughter's teacher who said nothing.  Later she confided in me that her first child was born with a heart defect and died shortly after.  Hearing about my sister brought back painful memories and she couldn't talk about it until we were alone.  It is a loss that is borne for life and yes, it does change you.  Sugarplum, I loved your kind and understanding post.  Thank you for all that you have done for grieving parents.  ❤️

[mimionthebeach]

21 hours ago, Aunt Catfish said:

Carlin did a nice thing.  She dropped everything, travelled to Arkansas, and took care of her friend.  If ever anyone needed that kind of a lift Joy did.  We should all have friends like that.

Does anyone else in that family have a friend like that? Their siblings and parents are always their best friends until they marry their best friend, but Joy and Carlin seem to share a genuine and meaningful friendship. She's lucky. 

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, mimionthebeach said:

Does anyone else in that family have a friend like that? Their siblings and parents are always their best friends until they marry their best friend, but Joy and Carlin seem to share a genuine and meaningful friendship. She's lucky. 

The only one that I can think of is Jana's friend, Laura.

Edited July 7, 2019 by BitterApple

[lascuba]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

My conclusion is that we owe Joy and the rest of the Duggarlings reparations for allowing their young lives to be exploited for "entertainment.

We -- all of us -- ought to pay them -- and all the other kids so treated -- for every day we haven't, and don't, pass laws flatly forbidding parents to sell their minor children's personal lives to be videotaped and broadcast. That sounds like a joke, I suppose, but I'm serious.

I will when they stop passing laws that take away rights from only a very select few. I'm not about to let sympathy make me forget just who these people are. 

[Churchhoney]

46 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I will when they stop passing laws that take away rights from only a very select few. I'm not about to let sympathy make me forget just who these people are. 

Yeah, I get that. But, to my mind, people's beliefs don't mean that wrongs done to them shouldn't be redressed, including wrongs done by our poor ethics as a society. And of course it wouldn't only be the Duggarlings I'd compensate .... The Gosselins, etc., would get in on it, too.....😀

Edited July 8, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Twopper]

On 7/4/2019 at 11:25 AM, Trillium said:

There’s a non profit called Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep where they have volunteer photographers come to take photos when there is a stillbirth or when they know they baby will not survive. It’s been around for a while. I had a former coworker who’s sister had a textbook pregnancy and delivery, but the baby had a previously undetected heart defect and passed and they had this service come and take what were the most heartbreaking but beautiful photos and this was like 9 years ago. 

It may have been around longer--or at least a similar one.  I had just delivered our daughter and was resting in bed watching tv when it aired a special with Jane Pauly called "Some are Born Dead."   It was actually somewhat healing for me as my mother had lost my sister as a late term still birth.  That program aired in the late 80's.   We had a couple in our parish recently deliver a full term baby that was not going to live;  they had pictures taken of his baptism and last rites, and he actually lived a little longer than expected. 

[lascuba]

8 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I get that. But, to my mind, people's beliefs don't mean that wrongs done to them shouldn't be redressed, including wrongs done by our poor ethics as a society. And of course it wouldn't only be the Duggarlings I'd compensate .... The Gosselins, etc., would get in on it, too.....😀

The world being what it is, I'd need THEM to compensate for all the wrong they've done before they get anything, because we all know they'd take any compensation and use it to hurt others even more. 

[Absolom]

11 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I get that. But, to my mind, people's beliefs don't mean that wrongs done to them shouldn't be redressed, including wrongs done by our poor ethics as a society.

They can sue their parents, the networks, and the production companies.  Keep it directly in line with who caused the damage.  I don't owe any Duggar a dime nor a Gosselin either for that matter. 

[Aethera]

Folks, I think we've all weighed in now on Joy and Austin's decision to share their tough situation online, and whether or not we would do the same. We do not need to agree, or convince anyone of our point of view, so let's move on. And remember, sharing personal stories is best done in Small Talk. 

[ginger90]

[xwordfanatik]

Cute pic.  Joy is so pretty!  Giddyup is a cutie.

[louannems]

2 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

Cute pic.  Joy is so pretty!  Giddyup is a cutie.

I can't get over how much thinner Joy was for her past pregnancy, compared to her first.  Also, this photo seems extremely photoshopped.  It looks like a partial arm and hand near her neck!

For a second, I thought Giddy was Sammy.

Joy looks beautiful.

[galaxychaser]

Giddy looks like Sammy! 

[QuinnInND]

52 minutes ago, louannems said:

For a second, I thought Giddy was Sammy.

Joy looks beautiful.

I agree with both of these statements. I hope Giddy is helping Joy in her grief. Hugging her sweet little boy and holding him close will help.  

[lascuba]

9 hours ago, louannems said:

I can't get over how much thinner Joy was for her past pregnancy, compared to her first.  Also, this photo seems extremely photoshopped.  It looks like a partial arm and hand near her neck!

I'm trying to figure out what she was trying to do and can't come up with anything. There's a clearly blacked out area to Gideon's right and I can't imagine what she's trying to cover.

[BradandJanet]

It's like one of those black and while images that can be seen two different ways. I first saw a rumpled neckline and shadows. Now that I see the blurry little hand, I can't unsee it. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

You can look in her face and tell she’s been through something traumatic.  Poor Joy.  Giddyup seems clean and healthy, so she’s obviously a good mom to him. 

[Saylii]

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

I'm trying to figure out what she was trying to do and can't come up with anything. There's a clearly blacked out area to Gideon's right and I can't imagine what she's trying to cover.

Bet it’s bra/bra strap.  I have so many cute selfies with my kids and inevitably a boob is always hanging out.

[Snow Fairy]

[GeeGolly]

12 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Giddy looks a lot like Sammy in this photo.

[Snow Fairy]

Yes, at first I thought it was Sam and Jill, when in popped on my Instagram

I adore sleeping babies, such angels

[awaken]

Looks like Sam, and Jessa!  I never saw the resemblance until his face was all smushed and sleepy!

[PikaScrewChu]

With the exception of Giddy's nose, you could throw him at the TTH with the hoard of children and he would blend right in. 

How the GrandDuggars look more alike when put together in a group than their aunts and uncles is a bit baffling. 

[kokapetl]

On 7/6/2019 at 5:44 AM, Scarlett45 said:

I agree with you. 

Also I think our culture (mainstream North American culture- If there is such a thing) is very uncomfortable with death. We can barely handle it when it’s an elderly person who dies peacefully in their sleep, but the notion that young healthy women won’t always carry pregnancies to term, kids get sick and die, a sperm and egg meeting doesn’t mean that a healthy baby is guaranteed are notions that make people very uncomfortable. 

I also think for the “leg humpers” they don’t want to think such a thing could happen to “godly” people. Joy & Austin are both very young, in good health, god fearing married fundie Christians- these things aren’t supposed to happen if you follow the “rules”. Life doesn’t work that way. 

I do hope Joy does NOT blame herself for this and she can talk about her feelings openly with Austin. (If no one else- I doubt Michelle would be any real comfort). 

I think all western cultures find child death uncomfortable, but America and it’s abortion issues heighten the emotions for some. 

[ginger90]

4 pictures:

[galaxychaser]

Austin took off his hat 👍👍👍.

[leighdear]

Wow, that baby has one GIGANTIC head.  But he's very cute, 

[jcbrown]

Those are nice pics, I have to admit.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

Those are nice pics, I have to admit.

They really are. Gideon is just beyond adorable in that 3rd picture. 

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

Those are nice pics, I have to admit.

I know JB arranged his children's marriages, but this one is one of the few where the couple seems to really care about each other.  I feel for Joy and Austin with the death of Annabelle, but at least they have the adorable Gideon to comfort them through this loss.

[GeeGolly]

10 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

Austin took off his hat 👍👍👍.

Yup. Outside. On a farm. 🤔

[Panopticon]

16 hours ago, Zella said:

They really are. Gideon is just beyond adorable in that 3rd picture. 

And Austin looks great too. Just appears to be contentedly adoring his son. 

(I’m sure I still find his views repulsive though.)

[PradaKitty]

Is that a mustache growing out of Austin’s nose?!

[ginger90]

5 pictures:

[ginger90]

One from her stories:

[BitterApple]

Justin is starting to look really cute. I probably just jinxed him and he's going to lose half his hair by next week, but he may be the second candidate to break the Duggar Puberty Curse if he can hold it together.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Joy rode a bike for 7 mikes in a dress? With the baby in jeans in this heat? Good grief.

[galaxychaser]

Giddy up is turning into a cute kid! 

[jukie]

3 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Joy rode a bike for 7 mikes in a dress? With the baby in jeans in this heat? Good grief.

Joy in a skirt I can understand, 1. she is used to wearing them 2. the cool breeze up the skirt....well might be refreshing lol.  But Gideon in jeans, he must have been so hot but it looks like it was dusk so maybe the air was a bit cooler?

[Zella]

If this was yesterday, the whole day was unseasonably cool and nice.

[DkNNy79]

I used to cycle quite regularly with my bike club for hours at a time before my son.   Even for a lazy bike ride on a bike path I can't imagine riding a bicycle in a skirt.  I would constantly worry about my skirt getting stuck in the gears, especially if Gideon is on Joy's bike.  Hopefully that picture was just for posing and that Gideon was on Austin's bike.  I'm at least glad they put a helmet on him.

[awaken]

11 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Joy rode a bike for 7 mikes in a dress? With the baby in jeans in this heat? Good grief.

I’m thinking of her just having given birth a short time ago!  I wouldn’t want to do a 7 mile bike ride in a dress shortly postpartum, but that’s me!  She looks happy, so hopefully she wanted to do it and enjoyed it. 

[Marigold]

I think we discussed this before but

Austin always rubbed me the wrong way. Lately, he seems to have grown into his role of husband and father. You can just see that he has softened up. I also think that Joy and Austin have developed a pretty solid relationship. 

If he toned down his style of child discipline, they would be in really good shape. 

[Zella]

5 hours ago, Marigold said:

I think we discussed this before but

Austin always rubbed me the wrong way. Lately, he seems to have grown into his role of husband and father. You can just see that he has softened up. I also think that Joy and Austin have developed a pretty solid relationship. 

If he toned down his style of child discipline, they would be in really good shape. 

He really creeped me out at first. I was one of the ones who used to joke about him looking like a serial killer. 

But in the last few months, he seems to have mellowed out. In his recent pics with Joy and Gideon (not counting the hospital ones 😞 ), he looks very happy, and they look very happy with him. 

[Gweilo]

My son is a month older than Gideon and my husband spent the first year looking shellshocked and awkward with him too (and he's not a religious fanatical arsehole!) New fatherhood is SUCH a shock to a lot of men, I think. Husband now adores being with our toddler and their bond has really developed in the last few months. The inquisitive toddler stage is so much fun for us as parents!  I hope Joy and Austin think about limiting their family size.

[ginger90]

2 pictures:

[lookeyloo]

7 hours ago, ginger90 said:

2 pictures:

7 hours ago, ginger90 said:

2 pictures:

He does look content, clean and well fed.  I wonder where they got the quilt.  Yes, I know he is doomed as far as his future, but at this point, his life is good (unless his father is into corporal punishment)

[Readalot]

I understand Joy getting out and exercising after her ordeal. I miscarried twins  early 2nd trimester.   I was upset at my body and just wanted to feel my body do something useful (of course after dr gave me ok to do so). I’m glad she has Giddy to focus on. It appears that Austin is supporting her so that’s wonderful. 

[Marigold]

Just thinking aloud (Ok, with my keyboard)

Austin has changed a lot since Giddy was born. I posted upthread that he seems to have grown into a husband and father...lost some of that cold vibe. 

I wonder if the loss of the baby might change his mind about such a harsh discipline style? When he was younger and less mature, kids were seen as something to be controlled through that blanket training crap. Lots of swagger on getting a baby to behave. Confident. 

Loosing a baby?  Life is fragile and a baby/child is not something to be hit with a piece of tubing. 

I really didn't want to rehash the discipline style, we all know it's abhorrent.

Maybe Austin and Joy's perspective might change and develop now? At least get them thinking? After burying their daughter, how will it affect them? 

Austin, I hope you and Joy find a gentler and healthier style of discipline. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Marigold