S01.E02: The Big Three

[Shaynaa]

Not quite a hit show but anyone remember Jessica Biel trying to leave Seventh Heaven?  She did an interview with one of those men's magazines where she trashed the show.  So the writers made her a college drop out drunk and by drunk, she drank half a beer so she had to be shipped off to live with her grandparents.  Now that was an awful, emotionally manipulative show.

[chocolatine]

I think it might be easier for an actor to get out of their contract if they're part of an ensemble cast and/or are not the titular character. NYPD Blue, Grey's Anatomy, and Seventh Heaven all still had several stars after Caruso/Heigl/Biel left, which wouldn't be the case with The Manny.

Edited September 28, 2016 by chocolatine

[voiceover]

Ha! showing my age, but I thought Farrah & Charlie's Angels, Suzanne Somers & Three's Company.

Can't believe I forget to note Tonight's Meta: Toby yelling about bagging a Gilmore Girl, to the daughter of a man who actually did!

[auntiemel]

I'm a big girl, and I've been to a fair amount of those kinds of Hollywood parties back when I used to do some entertainment industry-adjacent work. First of all, although they were generally peppered with hot young Hollywood ladies, they were far from the only ones there. Unless parties are specifically thrown as a press event (like the Met Gala, that kind of thing), it's always a mix of talent and behind the scenes people. Like Katey Sagal and Brad Garrett's characters--but the mix would be more evenly split.

While I always felt kind of out of place, no one ever treated me badly. If anything, the hot young starlet-types treated me with deference, I think because they figured if I'd gotten an invite, I must be someone with some influence. :)

[Dusty]

Until otherwise told I'm going to believe that Jack is out of the picture in the future because he's dead.  I get that a lot of people get divorced and that he may or may not be developing a drinking problem but if they go the way of divorce then I think I'm going to have a really hard time getting into their story in the past knowing it all ends in divorce. Let me have the fantasy of relationships that last. The kids just speak so highly of him that it's hard for me to believe that alcoholism brought about the end of the relationship.

Also "best friend" Miguel. I spy that wedding ring in the past. What's going on with that first wife? Did she conveniently die too and they commiserated together? Or he got divorced and saw his opening later on?

I was also side eyeing the diet that Rebecca was putting Kate on at that young of an age. Like unless it's recommended to you by the doctor isn't that a bit too early to determine that your kid needs to be on a diet? I don't know. I don't know how it all works with weight and kids and growing up. Some kids I grew up with were chubby as a kid and then puberty hit and it was like gone.  Some its been a lifelong struggle for them.  It just seems kind of young to start on the diet path.  She didn't look morbidly obese to me.

I'm all about having financial stability.  Anytime someone rails on a singer/actor or whatever for "selling out" I've always been like "And? They're making money now." Being a purist starving artist is for the young. At some point you have to think about your long term future. So I don't really see why Kevin can't stick it out for two more years and just have the cash to be comfortable while he pursues other things later. I know he's 35(?) on the show but men in show business have way more longevity than women.  Make that money while you can Kevin and do your theatre on hiatus.

I hope we see the three sibling all together on screen at the same time soon. Randall feels so separated from the rest of them to me. It's only two episodes in and he has his bio dad storyline going on.  The Big Three Chant got to me though. That was cute.

[atomationage]

So they didn't start out with Milo's ass, big mistake!  The pager on his belt was a laugh though. 

I thought little Kevin looked enough like Justin Hartley.   Is 3 million a year really a lot for a lead in a sitcom?   Maybe for someone who's not a comedian.   How long has the show been on?

I didn't even recognize Katy Sagal at first.   Brad Garrett, meh? mistake IMO.  I hope that's the last we see of him. 

That party dress really accentuated Kate's weight.  I did like her scenes in the support group.   Neutral on the boyfriend, Toby?

I don't really like Randall, and didn't care for any of his scenes with his newfound family.  Borrow money to take the bus?  Huh?  How expensive is the bus? 

That was supposed to be a big twist at the end?  I didn't care by then.   It was like the Webster scene at school.  They're going to give us the opposite of what we might expect from another show.   Big Whoop!  I would have liked it better if young Kevin stood up for his brother instead of going off with his friends.  They're all the same age, remember, writers, so they've spent their whole lives together up to that point. 

Overall, I thought the writing in this episode was poor.   Big disappointment, but I'll watch one more.  They must have crammed everything into the pilot.  I hope they don't keep introducing new characters every week.  Maybe Justin Hartley should try to get out of doing this show.   Is his character gone from Y&R?  Did Adam die in a fire again? 

Edited September 28, 2016 by atomationage

[mojoween]

Is 3 million a year really a lot for a lead in a sitcom?   Maybe for someone who's not a comedian.   How long has the show been on?

I read yesterday that Jim Parsons is making one million a year for The Big Bang Theory and that show has been on for ten years.

So Kevin should maybe not burn his bridges.  Unless Randall is an estate attorney and Kevin has invested well on his advice.

[biakbiak]

29 minutes ago, mojoween said:

 

I read yesterday that Jim Parsons is making one million a year for The Big Bang Theory and that show has been on for ten years.

So Kevin should maybe not burn his bridges.  Unless Randall is an estate attorney and Kevin has invested well on his advice.

Jim Parsons, Kaley Cuoco, and Johnny Galecki each make 1 million dollars an EPISODE not a year on TBBT so 24 million last year. The rest of the ensemble range from 750k to 100 an episode.

Edited September 28, 2016 by biakbiak

[mojoween]

Holy crap!  I need to work on my reading comprehension.

Then Kevin can get bent though because he's still making a healthy paycheck.

Kate is so pretty, I wish she had done her hair differently for the party.

Edited September 28, 2016 by mojoween

[Dejana]

Sad to see Kevin's cruelty to Randall, but kids can be so casually vicious and siblings don't always get along, even well into adulthood.

The boys being willfully fed sugar-laden cereals was such a striking "things were different then" moment, along with Rebecca's handling of young Kate and her weight. Now, a "good parent" would be more sensitive not to single out the one sibling by making it so obvious that she was on a diet. The family meals would be more balanced overall and there'd be a push to get the kids moving and more active.  Nearly thirty years ago, though I think a lot of kids Kate's age had parents who meant well but ultimately exacerbated the issues.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Dejana

[alexa]

I have mixed feelings.  There are parts of the show I like, but I don't really care about all of the characters enough.  I don't really like the sister having a weight related storyline--frankly I find it boring.  I know it is realistic, but for a tv show I don't find it interesting enough to go on and on.  I think it also furthers the issue with weight in general in society....you have a large person as a character and they can't just have regular storylines--it has to be about their weight.  I realize they would have these issues, don't get me wrong, but again, there are other things that can happen in their lives.

I do like Randall's family, but wish the dad wasn't around all of the time or living there.  I would prefer a lesser relationship to start the show and ease into more as it goes on.

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, atomationage said:

I would have liked it better if young Kevin stood up for his brother instead of going off with his friends.  They're all the same age, remember, writers, so they've spent their whole lives together up to that point. 

I thought that Kevin going off with his friends was a really good character beat.  Even though the kids grew up in the same household together, it isn't til they go to school that they begin to become aware of bigger things, external influences.  Kinda like you don't know you are poor until you can see what not-poor looks like.  They may not have been aware that anything about them was different til they got to school.  And Kevin, wanting the approval of his friends, feels like an ingrained thing that is following him into adulthood, like Kate's weight being the issue we saw taking root at that age as was Randall's need to be good and perfect.

I am also curious about Kevin's need to call Randall at that point when he was feeling the most helpless.  Why Randall specifically at that moment? Just from this ep you get the sense that their distance is of Kevin's making, not Randall's.  And speaking of that call --  when Kevin starts the convo he says 'I know we haven't talked since everything went down' or something like that.  So something happened to create another rift?  Or was it a reference to Jack's passing and Jack died fairly recently and something happened between the brothers in the aftermath?

If so I am liking the theory that Jack may have died after a long, lingering illness -- like Alzheimers or something.  Something that would have made his actual death more recent, but he would have been 'gone' much longer and have built in enough time for Rebecca to fall in love and marry Miguel and for Randall's daughters to begin to think of Miguel as grandpa.

[PRgal]

I don't know if Jack had dementia/Alzheimers.  I know there's early onset, but I think it might be alcohol-related.  Or maybe in an accident (alcohol or not) - if that's the case.  Also, notice the really sugary 80s cereals the kids were eating.  Yeah, a great way to help Kate...well, from a 2016 perspective, anyway (note:  I was NEVER allowed to eat that stuff back then.  I'm the same age as the "kids" - more or less (born in '79)).

[geekburger]

I liked the episode and all but that aging makeup was so terrible and totally sucked me out of the show.

[mojoween]

Am I to believe that Rebecca was 72?  Because I do not.

I think the actors playing Beth and William are phenomenal.  I would watch a whole show of just them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love that now that we know the Rebecca/Jack stuff takes place in the past, the first thing we saw in this episode were things that showed us we were in the 80s from the crockpot and Pac Man cereal to the  juice boxes and the metal lunch boxes.

I totally get Rebecca being annoyed with Jack, first when he poured sugary cereal into Kate's cantaloupe and then when he lifted the coffee pot at her. Dude, she's taking care of three kids. Undermining her and then acting put out because she was too busy making three lunches to put coffee in the machine for you is a dick move, especially when he's out drinking after work and coming home after the kids have had dinner and are already in bed.

Poor Kate. It must be so frustrating/annoying/intimidating for her to be trying to lose weight but be surrounded by women who are much smaller than she is at the gym. I can also understand why she didn't want to be The Fat Girl at a Hollywood party full of skinny starlets, especially she didn't know anyone else there. Toby definitely uses humor as a defense mechanism, but I appreciate that he's trying to help Kate feel more comfortable. I don't think it always works, but I do appreciate that he's trying to help her feel like she has a right to be present and happy instead of embarrassed/ashamed.

Awwww, Randall. It would have been difficult enough to be the adopted brother of twins, but to be so visibly different and made fun of for it must have made it that much harder, especially when your brother doesn't defend you. It was sad to see the conflict he felt when Kevin called him. The expression on his face totally relaxed and became happier when he heard Kate (and he said that Kate has kept him updated on what's going on with Kevin) so it sounds like she's the liaison and peacemaker between them.

I love Randall and Beth's relationship. It's so nice to see a healthy supportive loving marriage (I just finished reading Gone Girl and The Girl on the Train so I've been feeling like every fictional married couple is cheating and/or a suspect in their spouse's murder). I love that she understands Randall so well and wants to protect him, but also that she's willing to be the bad guy and ask the questions that Randall doesn't want to ask. When Beth said that Randall's vice was his goodness, I started cracking up because it reminded me of Michael Scott saying that his biggest weakness was that he cares too much.

On a shallow note, it's always annoying to see the double standard that women have to dress up for a party but guys can show up in a t-shirt.

It happens all the time, actors get burned out on lousy roles but take them because they don't have anything else.  Or they can't leave because of contractual obligations.  It's easy to sign on the dotted line when you're desperate, but you read the fine print later on and realize they basically own you. 

For American tv shows, the standard contract locks you in for SEVEN seasons.* Even if it's a great role, that's a long time to play the same character. If you are an established, respected actor, then it's easier to negotiate different terms. For example Chris Noth was cast as the title character's husband on The Good Wife but he was able to negotiate his role so that he would appear regularly without being a cast regular because he wanted the freedom to do other projects. But if you are a relatively unknown actor, IF you are lucky enough to be offered a contract as a regular then your choices are take it and commit yourself to seven years or turn it down and hope you get another role.

For someone like Kevin who, according to Lainey's description, was unknown and unfunny, to land the lead on a television show would have been a great accomplishment so he probably signed that contract gladly, thinking he would get fame, fortune, and steady work on a series. It's similar to what happens when musicians are offered record contracts. They're so excited to have the opportunity that they sign and then a few years in realize that they're not happy with the work that they've being asked to do. In the music industry, artists are often given a multi-album deal so they have to produce a certain number of albums in order to fulfill their contracts. Initially they think great, I get to record albums! Then they realize that the label is rejecting the songs that the artist likes and forcing them to record songs they don't like.

The most obvious example of an actor leaving a hit tv show way before their contract was David Caruso on NYPD Blue. Was there an actor who wanted out but the network refused to release them?

The one I remember was a huge deal at the time was Jessica Biel. When she began acting on 7th Heaven, she was only 14. As she got older, she got tired of playing the role and wanted to do movies, but Aaron Spelling refused to let her out of her contract. She then did a photoshoot for Gear magazine (she was topless but she had her breasts covered with her arms) in the hopes that the network people would be so angry that they would fire her. Instead, they kept her on the show and had her lose her college scholarship, get fired from numerous jobs, get caught drinking and driving, and in massive credit card debt before sending her to New York to live with her grandparents. After that, she was separated from the rest of the cast (I guess they didn't want her to be a bad influence on the other kids in the cast and encourage them to rebel too) so her onscreen interactions with the rest of the family were a lot of phone calls.

Katherine Heigl of Greys sort of made a big thing of wanting to leave, enough that the show finally granted her wish. But they totally had to change the story, she was supposed to come back but she made a big thing and there have always been conflicting reports from the magazines on how she was on set and  stuff that has painted her in a not good light.   She wanted to leave before all that though I believe, she had signed a years contract but then started to get into movies more and wanted to break it. Like I said, eventually they granted her wish.

She had a regular seven year contract but they released her during S6 after a lot of drama (including saying that she didn't want to submit for the Emmys because the material she was given on Grey's Anatomy wasn't good enough). She was in some episodes and was supposed to come back for the season finale but that didn't happen.

* Until the 1940s, if an artist's contract was for, say, two years, that meant two years of actual working (as in 730 days) and since most actors don't work every single day (aside from holidays and weekends, sometimes they aren't working for whatever reason like the show is on hiatus), that meant a two year contract could end up lasting much longer. In 1943, Olivia De Havilland filed a lawsuit which resulted in the labor code being amended to say that a contract was for the number of calendar years (meaning if your contract was signed in 2016, then it would be considered fulfilled in 2023), with no more than seven years on a contract. This is is unofficially known as the De Havilland Law. The seven year limit has been in effect since 1931. Previous to that, the limit on contracts was two years.

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I love that now that we know the Rebecca/Jack stuff takes place in the past, the first thing we saw in this episode were things that showed us we were in the 80s from the crockpot and Pac Man cereal to the  juice boxes and the metal lunch boxes.

80s nostalgia must be strong -- see also 'Stranger Things'.  Lots of current tv production people (and audience of course) must be in their thirties.  Speaking of tv production, going to that party to "Nanny out" I guess was meant to highlight how odious the big kahunas can be, but it also provided another instance of Kate over-serving herself alcohol.  She could have multiple addictions, she and her new bf and Kevin were hitting the sauce hard last episode, too. 

[random chance]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Anyways, I guess EVERY episode will have a twist LOL which is so weird because I hope I'll be able to "sit back and enjoy" -- I'm worried I won't be able to? 

Aggghhhh I hate knowing there's a twist in every episode, now I'm in the same boat, I'll be trying to figure out the stupid twist. Plus I've kind of had it with gimmicky TV shows. If this turns out to be another How I Met Your Mother-sh show I'll save myself and jump off the ride.

58 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Also, notice the really sugary 80s cereals the kids were eating.  Yeah, a great way to help Kate...well, from a 2016 perspective, anyway (note:  I was NEVER allowed to eat that stuff back then.  I'm the same age as the "kids" - more or less (born in '79)).

We weren't allowed to eat that stuff either, and I know it was a lot of years ago but I'm pretty sure people knew that sugar wasn't all that good for you even back in the 80's.

[Seelouis]

The 80's stuff to me didn't feel right.  It was supposed to be 1987 at that point.  I think Jack looks more like he's in the 70's.  Like they didn't change the styling from the first episode, which was 1979, to last night's, which was 8 years later and a whole other look. 

[sigmaforce86]

So they cover Jack's drinking in the same episode that Kate gets drunk (after she spent time last ep talking about alcohol calories).  You'd think if Jack was dead and his drinking was even part responsible she'd be hypersensitive to that.  Maybe it's supposed to show an addictive nature in the family considering her food issues or maybe it's a one time thing (and I'm reading too much into it).

Right now I trust William more than Toby.  He could be that "brash because deep down I'm insecure guy" but he feels like a climber to me; first episode Kevin comes to the house upset and he has to take a selfie, now he's inviting himself to the party.  I know it was supposed to be to support Kate but it felt self-serving too.....need a few more episodes to prove if he's a people user or not.

Did Kate's house look familiar to anyone....the doorway when Toby arrived? I was thinking the Walsh house from 90210 but not sure

[PRgal]

Toby gives me the creeps.  Not only is he weird, but I worry that something would happen to Kate.  I don't know.  Gut feeling. 

[VioletNevermind]

1 hour ago, random chance said:

We weren't allowed to eat that stuff either, and I know it was a lot of years ago but I'm pretty sure people knew that sugar wasn't all that good for you even back in the 80's.

I noticed the cereals, too.  I would have forgiven the fact that Rebecca served her kids that stuff if those scenes were set in the 60's and maybe the early 70's.  I grew up in the 80's and am nearly the same age as the kids are now.  Parents totally knew about the negative effects of sugar then.  My mom responded to our requests for cereals like Cocoa Puffs and Cookie Crisp with a hearty laugh.  To this day, I can still remember her saying, "Sure, why don't we just pick up a box of Snicker bars for breakfast instead?"  I may be guilty of repeating that same line to my own daughter.

Edited September 28, 2016 by SuzyLee

[mojoween]

I aged from 7 to 17 in the 80's and ate those cereals for breakfast the entire decade.  Saturday mornings with the Smurfs and Sugar Smacks was a divine day.

Hell when we had normal Rice Krispies I put a tablespoon of sugar in the bowl.

[AdorkableSars]

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Randall and Beth have the best story on the show, probably because they are the best actors. Susan Kelechi Watson who plays Beth is damn good, the perfect acting partner for Sterling K. Brown.

Quote

"Okay, now I feel like a bitch." Okay, I'm in for Randall and Beth.

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And more Beth!  She hasn't had a whole lot to do but she's had some of the most endearing moments for me.  From the 1st episode rooting on the daughter who was braiding as hard as she was the one who was kicking ass.   And in this episode the getting real with William and then saying she felt like a bitch.   I hope William is on the up and up but I love that Beth is going to be looking out for Randall and their girls.

Hear, hear! Randall & Beth are my absolute favorite couple on the show (not that there’s really a lot to choose from). They are such an adorable and strong couple. I love how Beth is so fierce in wanting to protect Randall. I think she might be my favorite character right now. I love the entire family! Their girls are so cute. Loved the little one calling asthma her vice!

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It's very possible. Rewatching the ending scene (and then piecing together that Miguel was Jack's best friend), Randall did not sound happy to see him there (but he was perfectly happy with Rebecca), so I do think there was a falling out between Jack and Miguel

Yes, I noticed that Randall did not seem happy to see Miguel as well! Also (and maybe this is me overthinking things), but Kevin and Kate keep telling each other that they’re the best part of each other’s lives, and they don’t know what they would do without each other…I thought this might be foreshadowing that both parents had passed away in present day. But now seeing that Rebecca (Mom, for those of you still struggling with character names!) is still alive, I wonder if there was some kind of falling out between Jack and Miguel, or fishy circumstances to how Rebecca and Miguel got together. Because I would think that Kevin and Kate would consider their mom a pretty important part of their lives as well. (I think I’m definitely overthinking this, maybe…)

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Toby gives me the creeps.  Not only is he weird, but I worry that something would happen to Kate.  I don't know.  Gut feeling

I still think Toby is hilarious, but yeah, something about his character is a little offputting…he seems a little sex-crazed, no? Maybe this is one of his coping mechanisms for his weight issues though?

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I also thought the telephone conversation between Mann -- er, Kevin and Randall was really well played by both actors; I'm not used to thinking of Justin Hartley as highly skilled, but I think he's bringing good stuff. And I'd be more annoyed by Kevin's artistic angst, except everyone else connected to the show seems like an even bigger ass than he -- well, not Alan Thicke, I guess.

Loved this scene. It’s the one that made me cry in this episode. I think Justin Hartley is good actor – he handles comedy especially well, I think. But those legit tears in his eyes and trembling in his voice tonight had me all like “Dammmmmmmmn Fox/Oliver/Patrick/Will/Scott/Adam!” He is bringing good stuff! Sterling K. Brown was incredible in that scene too…and when the Big Three did their chant, I lost it. I had all the feels.

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I can relate to Kate and it always being about weight and feeling self conscious....granted I've never struggled with as much weight as her but have with 25, 30, and up to 50 extra lbs at different times and feeling like nothing fit or looked good on me.  

This storyline, while maybe a little contrived, is the one that I can certainly relate to the most. Like Kate, I’ve struggled with my weight since I was in elementary school. And to this day, it’s something that weighs heavily (heh heh) on my mind. My weight has yo-yoed in the past 10 years, and sometimes, I cry in fitting rooms because nothing seems to fit. I cry when I’ve had a long, hard day, and am stress eating potato chips and ice cream, knowing that this is adding to my stress rather than relieving it. Because struggling with weight is stressful, and wreaks havoc with your physical AND emotional health. And I want to lose the weight, but sometimes it seems like such a steep hill to climb…I’ve done it in the past (lost 40 pounds about 5 years ago), so I know it CAN be done. But after gaining that weight back, it’s very discouraging. I think the actress who plays Kate is doing an excellent job with this storyline. I’m totally on board.

How cute were the kids they got to play The Big Three when they were younger?!

Edited September 28, 2016 by AdorkableSars

[JenE4]

I have a theory as to why Kate and Kevin are so close while Randall is a bit of an outsider to their twosome. There was a focus on Jack and Rebecca's marital issues with Rebecca clearly favoring Randall while being critical of Kate and Kevin, while Jack was portrayed as a "12" dad to them. My theory is that Jack and Rebecca divorced, and Jack took Kate and Kevin, while Rebecca took Randall. Rebecca showing up at Randall's house with Miguel I took as more evidence for my theory, but I can't explain why Rebecca would still be wearing the necklace Jack gave her if that happened. Even if he died of alcoholism or something, I can't fathom why she'd be wearing this necklace for 22 years--but I guess that is to show they DIDN'T divorce and Jack IS dead? Whelp, I'm going to stick with my theory anyway. And maybe they were divorced, the family split up, she married Miguel, and she only wears the necklace in the same way that the doctor gave the pep talk about the spirit of their deceased child--as a reminder of taking life's sourest lemons and trying to make something resembling lemonade.

[callmebetty]

4 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I aged from 7 to 17 in the 80's and ate those cereals for breakfast the entire decade.  Saturday mornings with the Smurfs and Sugar Smacks was a divine day.

Hell when we had normal Rice Krispies I put a tablespoon of sugar in the bowl.

Our family too. We had everything from Lucky Charms, sugar smacks, Apple jacks but we had rice krispies and cheerios too.

We weren't well off so soda was an occasional treat. But kool-aid with its two cups of sugar was fine ;)

I'm really liking this show. And love Beth and Randall's relationship. 

Don't need a twist every episode but it's working so far..

[mtlchick]

I think the point for the network exec was to recast him entirely since he's the main focus of the show. Caruso, Heigl, Sommers et al were leads but were replaced by different characters. So when he said that, I thought of the the two Beckys from Roseanne (though Lecy Goranson left due to going to school.) 

3 million over 22 episodes = roughly 136000 per show.  It's not Big Bang money but enough to say the show was on for a few seasons and was a solid performer for the network.

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We weren't allowed to eat that stuff either, and I know it was a lot of years ago but I'm pretty sure people knew that sugar wasn't all that good for you even back in the 80's.

I'm 38 now but I was Lucky Charms and Boo Berry Cereal during those years like it was going out of style.

 

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It was supposed to be 1987 at that point.  I think Jack looks more like he's in the 70's.  Like they didn't change the styling from the first episode, which was 1979, to last night's, which was 8 years later and a whole other look. 

I'm willing to fanwalk that since they plan on jumping back and forth in time with Rebecca/Jack that's it's easier for Milo keep his Selleck style mustache and hair and style it as best they can to keep within the time period.  As we saw last night, aging Mandy Moore to look 72 didn't work out as well.

 

Side note: GI Joe lunchbox, Pac Man cereal...and two long shots for TOP C juice boxes.  So Hi C didn't want to sign off for this show?

[alexa]

33 minutes ago, SuzyLee said:

I noticed the cereals, too.  I would have forgiven the fact that Rebecca served her kids that stuff if those scenes were set in the 60's and maybe the early 70's.  I grew up in the 80's and am nearly the same age as the kids are now.  Parents totally knew about the negative effects of sugar then.  My mom responded to our requests for cereals like Cocoa Puffs and Cookie Crisp with a hearty laugh.  To this day, I can still remember her saying, "Sure, why don't we just pick up a box of Snicker bars for breakfast instead?"  I may be guilty of repeating that same line to my own daughter.

Sugar cereals are still popular today, so I am not sure that the decade represented matters.  And I will confess, we have some of the sugar cereals in my home on a regular basis.  I know they aren't healthy in regard to the sugar, but I guess because the portion that is eaten is small it doesn't really bother me too much.  

[Aloeonatable]

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ggghhhh I hate knowing there's a twist in every episode, now I'm in the same boat, I'll be trying to figure out the stupid twist. Plus I've kind of had it with gimmicky TV shows.

I read in a recent interview with Dan Fogleman that there won't be a twist or a surprise in the end of every episode. 

[Ohwell]

My parting comment on this show is that I don't for one second believe grandpa's story about the kittens. 

[alexa]

8 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

My parting comment on this show is that I don't for one second believe grandpa's story about the kittens. 

I agree.  And I don't really like starting the show off with this ominous grandpa that they know nothing about just living in their home--I feel like I am always just waiting for the bomb to drop which isn't really enjoyable for me.

By parting comment does that mean you are out for good/done with the show?  I am going to try one more, I think.  And if it is all about the weight storyline, and I don't get the sense that the grandpa story goes any place positive, I might have to bow out.

[mojoween]

I know Kate was drunk, but I love how excited she got when they did their "three" chant when Kevin was on the phone with Randall.

[VioletNevermind]

13 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

My parting comment on this show is that I don't for one second believe grandpa's story about the kittens. 

Thank you very much.  Beth's initial suspicions will be vindicated by the time that story is fleshed out.  Sometimes, it helps to be the "bitch" (her words) in the situation.

Edited September 28, 2016 by SuzyLee

[SimoneS]

Kevin's story is the weakest and is hurt further because as @Cardie stated Justin Hartley is not a talented actor. He struggles to convey Kevin's turmoil. About the story though, if Kevin is irreplaceable at the network head stated, then he should be able to negotiate other projects with the network and push the arrogant showrunner to leave some of the drama in show.

I hope Kate finds a balance. Even if she had surgery, the weight wouldn't magically disappear. She needs to find a way to be happy while losing the weight, maybe with Toby or by herself. I do hope that Kevin and Kate move to New York so the siblings can be closer to each other. Maybe being closer to Randall and Rebecca will help Kate and Kevin find some balance.

I have been suspicious of William, but I have to say that if he is doing something wrong, surely he would have come up with a better story than that he is returning home to care for his cat. I can believe that he loves being with his new found family, but does not want to abandon his cat. I am just waiting to find out if he is really ill.

Edited September 28, 2016 by SimoneS

[cali1981]

29 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

I read in a recent interview with Dan Fogleman that there won't be a twist or a surprise in the end of every episode. 

I like the twists.  It's similar to what Sam Esmail does with Mr. Robot where a lot of episodes have a shocker at the end that is fleshed out the following week.  On the whole, I'm really liking This is Us.  It has a nice ensemble cast (good to see Jon Huertas from Castle last night) and some pretty good writing. I've always liked Mandy Moore and Sterling K. Brown and Chrissy Metz are excellent.  I do like the way the show is tackling the subject of morbid obesity and the shifts between the present and past have been well done with reasonable and logical ties.  Hopefully the show runners can keep it up.

[ShadowFacts]

9 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have been suspicious of William, but I have to say that if he is doing something wrong, surely he would have come up with a better story than that he is returning home to care for his cat. I can believe that he loves being with his new found family, but does not want to abandon his cat. I just waiting to find out if he is really ill.

Agree that the cat story is weak if he is covering something, but I don't want to think he is.  I may be a sucker and a sap, but ever since he admitted something very unflattering that could have resulted in Randall leaving and never looking back (that he doesn't even remember dropping him off at the firehouse), I see him as basically honest.  Plus, for him to be a faker after Randall's father Jack is apparently dead, and he is cool towards stepdad, just seems like too much absent father.  To me there is a lot more drama to be mined out of reconnecting with a dying father than just a trope-y grifter scenario.   Now don't make a fool out of me, William. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

To be honest I like Kate and her storyline because I can relate to a lot of it!  I was nodding along like crazy to what she was saying!

Quote

 

3 million over 22 episodes = roughly 136000 per show.  It's not Big Bang money but enough to say the show was on for a few seasons and was a solid performer for the network.

I went from being interested in Kevin's story last week to thinking that the boy is insane.  Unless the show is misogynistic or racist I would do it and pay my dues.  Again I point to the examples of George Clooney, Margot Robbie, etc. etc. who paid their dues on sitcoms or shows and look at them now.  Look at Jennifer Aniston.   If you're good-looking and can act, Hollywood will embrace you with that resume.

When people mention actors who wanted to break into films - or thought they could - there's a lot of examples I  vaguely remember but can't pinpoint!!  Somebody help me.  Was Mischa Barton on The O.C. one?  (I wasn't as into the show back then).  Then there's Blake Lively on Gossip Girl, but they did their six seasons and closed the show properly.  (Somebody said the typical contract is seven seasons --- I know that it's five seasons for a show to reach syndication, and a lot of shows go to 6, remember Abed from Community:  "Six seasons and a movie!"  Six seasons was the duration of Gossip Girl, Sex and the City, LOST, and Community.  So is the contract really seven?  Not sure.)

Edited September 28, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Enigma X]

I like Kate and her story, but I find Toby annoying. I have problems with people who need to be funny all the time.

[random chance]

I'm guessing that we're supposed to feel that he's brave and noble for wanting to give up six million dollars in order to do serious work, but I just think he's a short-sighted, spoiled dumbass.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Right now I trust William more than Toby.  He could be that "brash because deep down I'm insecure guy" but he feels like a climber to me; first episode Kevin comes to the house upset and he has to take a selfie, now he's inviting himself to the party.  I know it was supposed to be to support Kate but it felt self-serving too.....need a few more episodes to prove if he's a people user or not.

I just thought that Toby was trying to be very supportive and trying to help Kate out, but I'm sure he wanted to go as well for his own benefit, which is perfectly fine to me. I think a lot of people would love to go to a Hollywood party like that and knowing that Kate was invited gave him the push to be pushy and assertive, since Kate wasn't going to. She seems to enjoy that side of him, at least. I can see how people may be put off by that side of him, but he's no different than some of my male friends in university, and they were all still good guys. 

Basically, I do think Toby means well and really does care for Kate and he wants to help her, but don't forget that he's in that group with her, so he has his own issues that he happens to be hiding better. I am in the boat that some of his comments are very off putting and some of his jokes aren't funny. I just don't think he's the worst guy ever. He may be just a temporary boyfriend for Kate as she deals with her issues, or she could end up marrying this guy. 

Apparently, I'm just easy when it comes to these emotional beats because I fall for each and every one. 

1 minute ago, random chance said:

I'm guessing that we're supposed to feel that he's brave and noble for wanting to give up six million dollars in order to do serious work, but I just think he's a short-sighted, spoiled dumbass.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we see theatre not working out for whatever reason and he does eventually go back to the network to beg for his job back. Would they really cast someone like Brad Garrett to be just a one time guest star? I know he's not a huge TV name out there, but he's made his way through the television world, and I think most people recognize him from somewhere. It's why I also expect Katey Sagal to pop back in from time to time. I think they're more than glorified cameos. 

I don't think he's spoiled, but he is short-sighted, which does make him look like a dumbass, absolutely. He's also a little bit too judgmental as well and condescending. Maybe a little too proud as well, but I'm guessing that we'll see more of his inner issues come up with this reckless move. I do think he could end up regretting it, even with his sister's encouragement. He already was regretting it before Kate convinced him to leave the network altogether. 

35 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Agree that the cat story is weak if he is covering something, but I don't want to think he is.  I may be a sucker and a sap, but ever since he admitted something very unflattering that could have resulted in Randall leaving and never looking back (that he doesn't even remember dropping him off at the firehouse), I see him as basically honest.  Plus, for him to be a faker after Randall's father Jack is apparently dead, and he is cool towards stepdad, just seems like too much absent father.  To me there is a lot more drama to be mined out of reconnecting with a dying father than just a trope-y grifter scenario.   Now don't make a fool out of me, William. 

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I do believe William to an extent and I do hope that he's not manipulating the family. I do think there's a chance that he is still on drugs and is covering it up, but I also believe that he is sick and he does want to get to know his biological son. Or maybe he'll start back on drugs while living with Randall and Beth and it'll take a few episodes for Randall to believe it. I imagine that William will die at the end of this season, just because I think this is just Randall's story arc to deal with his biological father issues. Depending on if Jack is actually dead, and I think there's an 80% chance of that being the case, it'll definitely leap into another storyline for Randall if there's a second season (which, given the reviews and ratings after these two episodes, I am strongly confident that there will be). 

[Bad Example]

14 minutes ago, random chance said:

I'm guessing that we're supposed to feel that he's brave and noble for wanting to give up six million dollars in order to do serious work, but I just think he's a short-sighted, spoiled dumbass.

I'm pretty sure we're supposed to think he's a short-sighted, spoiled dumbass.    And that's okay.   It's clear he's not the brains of the trio.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I went from being interested in Kevin's story last week to thinking that the boy is insane.  Unless the show is misogynistic or racist I would do it and pay my dues.  Again I point to the examples of George Clooney, Margot Robbie, etc. etc. who paid their dues on sitcoms or shows and look at them now.  Look at Jennifer Aniston.   If you're good-looking and can act, Hollywood will embrace you with that resume.

When people mention actors who wanted to break into films - or thought they could - there's a lot of examples I  vaguely remember but can't pinpoint!!  Somebody help me.  Was Mischa Barton on The O.C. one?  (I wasn't as into the show back then).  Then there's Blake Lively on Gossip Girl, but they did their six seasons and closed the show properly.  (Somebody said the typical contract is seven seasons --- I know that it's five seasons for a show to reach syndication, and a lot of shows go to 6, remember Abed from Community:  "Six seasons and a movie!"  Six seasons was the duration of Gossip Girl, Sex and the City, LOST, and Community.  So is the contract really seven?  Not sure.)

Actors are signed to a seven year conteact with the production studio. That doesn't necessarily mean the show will last seven seasons. The seven year contract for an American show means that if the show is not canceled, the actor is tied to the show. The network decides if the show is canceled or renewed each season. Once a show is no longer in production, the actor's contract with the production studio ends. 

So for example, Sarah Michelle Gellar signed a contract with Twentieth Century Fox, the studio that produced Buffy the Vampire Slayer, to be the lead on BtVS. The show was aired on the WB (not Fox). The WB had the right to cancel the show at any time. When they canceled the show after the fifth season, it didn't void her contract  for the show with Fox. Fox then tried to get another network to pick up the show. If every other network had passed, then her contract with Fox to play Buffy would have ended, but UPN decided to air the show so she was required to stay with the show on the new network until the end of the seventh season. 

Syndication is a separate issue. Until recently, 100 episodes was the magic number generally required to sell a show into syndication, which is why some shows were renewed for fifth seasons even though the fourth seasons didn't get great ratings. In some cases, the syndication market for particular shows is really strong outside the United States so even though the ratings aren't spectacular here, they know that if they can have enough episodes to go into syndication in Asia or Europe (aka make money selling it into syndication outside the USA), it's worth keeping the show on the air a little longer. 

Yes, George Clooney put in his time doing tv (The Facts of Life!) but during the five years that he was a regular on ER, he made several movies (Batman & Robin, One Fine Day, The Thin Red Line, From Dusk Til Dawn, Out of Sight). Blake Lively also did 1-2 movies per year while she was on Gossip Girl. They were both younger than Kevin when they started doing movies though. Hollywood is more forgiving/accepting of men aging so he could probably still get cast as an action star or a romantic lead after his remaining two years as the Manny (or hell, start doing movies during his Manny hiatus each season!).

Hee, the "six seasons and a movie" thing for Community actually originated with Joel McHale saying that every week on The Soup. And it worked! Well, the six seasons part anyway. 

Edited September 28, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

I went from being interested in Kevin's story last week to thinking that the boy is insane.  Unless the show is misogynistic or racist I would do it and pay my dues.  

 

That's the thing.  Kevin doesn't want to be typecast as a himbo, which is EXACTLY what the Manny character is (if you flip it around and the role were played by a woman, you'd think it's extremely sexist).  People always ask him to take off his shirt.  He's 36 years old. How many more years of "hot dude without a shirt" does he have?  That's why he flipped in the pilot episode.   

[luna1122]

I'm finding myself increasingly  annoyed by the fat girl storyline. It's as if it's her ONLY characteristic.   In this episode. she even SAYS 'the weight is everything, it's all i am', or something like that. Does she have a job? Friends? Pets? interests? Fat people manage to have all of the above, plus love interests, AND manage to not cry all the time, or only talk about food. I want to like her, and do like the actress, but so far she is strictly ONE dimenion: fat. And I still don't like her boyfriend. He tries too hard to be funny, he's crass n tacky and that weird little splotch of hair on the front of his head bugs me.

Also, not all fat girls only have fat boyfriends. Melissa McCarthy, Delta Burke, Oprah. Monique, Jill Scott. All with average sized significant others. Nothing wrong with a fat hubby, but on tv/flicks, the fat guys get hot slim wives but the fat chicks only get fat balding guys.

The twist at the end of the episode left me with mixed feelings, but I'm not really ready to speculate that Rebecca cheated on Jack. I hope not.

And I love justin Hartley, and unlike many here, I think he's a good actor,  but it's hard to feel too bad for his character...poor young actor guy, making three mill a year but stuck with a job he doesn't like. Um, shut up, pretty Kevin.

 

I absolutely choose to believe the story about the cat.

Edited September 28, 2016 by luna1122

[buckboard]

5 hours ago, alexa said:

 I don't really like the sister having a weight related storyline--frankly I find it boring.  I know it is realistic, but for a tv show I don't find it interesting enough to go on and on.  I think it also furthers the issue with weight in general in society....you have a large person as a character and they can't just have regular storylines--it has to be about their weight.  

I actually like that storyline, Alexa.  So few shows have ever dealt with the weight issue.  I don't think it's boring at all, but shows a really dramatic struggle that has shaped her life.  I agree that I don't want to spend every episode dealing with her weight, but as her overweight boyfriend said, he didn't want to see their lives revolve around nothing but weight issues, either, so I'm hoping they will be focusing on other aspects of her life as well.  
 

Edited September 28, 2016 by buckboard

[Enigma X]

I actually don't mind Kate's storyline. I can relate. I can't say I have watched an overweight person's storyline treated with any depth where the issue wasn't wrapped up in a comical (even if poignant) way at the end of a (meaning one episode-really?) show.

[Arcadiasw]

The only stories I’m invested in the following order: Randall, Jack and Rebecca, Rebecca and Miguel, Kate and Kevin.

Either Jack died or Rebecca and Miguel had an affair and left Jack for him. After the bar scene, I became suspicious of Miguel but I didn’t see that ending coming.  

I agree with all the others who questioned why Randall’s dad is sleeping in the youngest room given the house looks big enough for four bedrooms at least. Randall paid 130K in cash for his car. If you’re rolling with that much money, you can afford a house with five bedrooms at least even if it was a fixer upper as Beth implied to William.

Hope I’m wrong about William but I think there may be something else going on. The twists in the show so far has made me suspicious. I can’t blame William for not wanting to leave either. Seeing the flashbacks of Randall with Kevin and the reveal of Rebecca and Miguel, I understand a little more why Randall has looked for William and wants him in his life.

Kevin’s an entitled jerk and an idiot. He was a nobody until his agent discovered him. Kevin’s 36. I don’t know how long The Manny been on air but until his 30s Kevin didn’t make it big. He leaves his hit show, he’ll probably disappear again like other actors whose ego blinded them to reality. Why not take the three million a year for the next two years and when he’s not doing his sitcom, do theater or look for more dramatic roles? Lots of actors do other roles even though they are on a hit show. A lot of actors stay on a hit show (even if they want to leave) because of the money and know when that ends they may not have another hit and the big money they made on the hit show will set them up for life.

How much is Kevin really taking home? It’s 3 million salary but after taxes, paying agents and managers and living in California, he might not have as much as he thinks. It’s still more than what we’re making but Kevin doesn’t seem like the type to spend his money wisely or make smart investments. Kevin will have a rude awakening if he can’t cut it in theater in NY.

Maybe I missed it but what does Kate do? What’s Jack’s profession?

Toby is okay but seems a bit of a fame whore and those types who invite themselves to places they were not invited to. He invited himself in Kate’s house and took selfies with Kevin when he was down and invited himself to a Hollywood party.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes, George Clooney put in his time doing tv (The Facts of Life!) but during the five years that he was a regular on ER, he made several movies (Batman & Robin, One Fine Day, The Thin Red Line, From Dusk Til Dawn, Out of Sight).

That's exactly what I was referring to .  Clooney put in his dues by acting on a sitcom for years.  And look where it got him.  

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hee, the "six seasons and a movie" thing for Community actually originated with Joel McHale saying that every week on The Soup. And it worked!

Who did it work for?  I know Sex and the City, but I'm having trouble of finding other examples.  It worked for Entourage.

With regards to Randall's father, has it only been said that he's "sick" so far?  With no named disease?

Facts of Life:  George Clooney ... George Burnett[8] (cast member 1985–1986, recurring 1986–1987)

Edited September 28, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[BoogieBurns]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

"marry a guy like Dad and be a mom like Mom". She wouldn't have felt that way if she had been a child of divorce.

I am a child of divorce who wants those things. My parents rock. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I believe Kate is an assistant of some kind? But don't take my word for it, I just, for some reason think that was mentioned. 

I really do care more about Jack and Rebecca than anything else in this show and all the other stories.