S01.E02: The Big Three

[Big Mother]

On 10/2/2016 at 9:41 AM, zumpie said:

I honestly think the exact opposite: the story lines are cliched, full of plot holes, etc....conversely, while the characters aren't terribly well written, the actors are really good and I feel kinda bad for them. Again, it's Parenthood 2.0 for me----a bunch of actors I previously adored, all in roles that quickly changed my opinions (except for Bonnie Bedelia's character, I still liked her)

Kate, Kevin, and Toby get on my nerves. Only Randall don't make me feel like I'm watching some high school kids' play.

[llewis823]

On 9/30/2016 at 3:45 PM, breezy424 said:

It was ridiculous to show the exterior of a pretty large colonial style home and then have it only have three bedrooms?

This is pretty common on tv and in movies to add interest to a story line. Someone has to move out of their room so a guest can stay - or someone has to share a room with someone else. These big houses MUST have a least one spare room that isn't an office. We just have to suspend our disbelief for the sake of the storyline.

[Indy]

My biggest take away from this show was the realization of how old my crock pot actually is...because it's the exact same one they panned to in Jack and Rebecca's kitchen when they were setting the stage for the viewers that we were in the mid 80s. My husband came with the crock pot,  which he enherited from an aunt...who apparently bought it in 1987.  It still works. 

I like how they're doing the flash backs, setting the stage for their current lives. Also I really love Randall and Beth so far. I'm not digging Toby at all. I like Kate and Kevin's relationship a lot. I'm hoping she'll follow him to NY and ditch Toby  

[BoogieBurns]

19 hours ago, Indy said:

My biggest take away from this show was the realization of how old my crock pot actually is...because it's the exact same one they panned to in Jack and Rebecca's kitchen when they were setting the stage for the viewers that we were in the mid 80s. My husband came with the crock pot,  which he enherited from an aunt...who apparently bought it in 1987.  It still works. 

I like how they're doing the flash backs, setting the stage for their current lives. Also I really love Randall and Beth so far. I'm not digging Toby at all. I like Kate and Kevin's relationship a lot. I'm hoping she'll follow him to NY and ditch Toby  

They make them cheap now! Be happy you got them when they lasted a lifetime. Same for Kitchen Aid mixers. My grandma's is a family heirloom at this point for how long it's lasting.

Edit: oh, typo. Sorry Nana.

Edited October 7, 2016 by BoogieBurns

[theatremouse]

On 9/27/2016 at 8:58 PM, chocolatine said:

BTW, I had no problem with Kate dressing down the woman in the Lululemon jacket. She probably just goes to that support group meeting so that she can be the thinnest person in the room (she would have a lot more "competition" at an anorexics' meeting). And the Wendy's litterer, too. She could have given that meal to a homeless person.

I was uncomfortable with her snapping at the anorexic lady (but I take it as intentional), but I LOVED that she called the Wendy's lady a litterer. I was half expecting some generic insult, or insinuating the story was a lie or something else, but calling the litterbug a litterbug was a fantastic response.

On 9/28/2016 at 4:38 AM, DearEvette said:

I thought that Kevin going off with his friends was a really good character beat.  Even though the kids grew up in the same household together, it isn't til they go to school that they begin to become aware of bigger things, external influences.  ...

I am also curious about Kevin's need to call Randall at that point when he was feeling the most helpless.  Why Randall specifically at that moment? Just from this ep you get the sense that their distance is of Kevin's making, not Randall's.  And speaking of that call --  when Kevin starts the convo he says 'I know we haven't talked since everything went down' or something like that.  So something happened to create another rift?  Or was it a reference to Jack's passing and Jack died fairly recently and something happened between the brothers in the aftermath?

The most interesting part of that flashback for me was that Kate stayed right by Randall, not a flinch. I get that they were implying the other kids were Kevin's friends, not necessarily hers, so they weren't necessarily egging her on to bail, but it was a nice subtle, distinct moment. She watched her other brother make the wrong choice.

On 9/28/2016 at 10:32 PM, buttersister said:

And also, is it wrong to want to watch Katey Sagal's and Brad Garrett's characters Nagasaki Kevin? (And did the writers think Nagasaki was somehow less offensive than Hiroshima? Or going nuclear on your ass?)

I thought it was intentinally characterizing Garrett's character as horrible that he threw it around like that. And not surprising for a TV exec. (not all of them are like that or anything, but it's a totally believable type of exec to me.)

 

The "little brother" thing did bug me because I think it very probable there must've been a time gap between firestation, being noticed at said firestation, being dropped at hospital, checked by doctors and landing next to the twins. I guess we don't know exactly how long the labor was or how long Jack had been there before the moment he saw all three, but it does seem like Randall is potentially a few hours older, but also that it's likely to be improbable for him to be younger, even by a few minutes, and even more improbable for them to be SURE he were younger. That's why it bugged me mostly, not that it isn't possible but that it seems so very unlikely for them to be certain.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

The "little brother" thing did bug me because I think it very probable there must've been a time gap between firestation, being noticed at said firestation, being dropped at hospital, checked by doctors and landing next to the twins. I guess we don't know exactly how long the labor was or how long Jack had been there before the moment he saw all three, but it does seem like Randall is potentially a few hours older, but also that it's likely to be improbable for him to be younger, even by a few minutes, and even more improbable for them to be SURE he were younger. That's why it bugged me mostly, not that it isn't possible but that it seems so very unlikely for them to be certain.

I completely agree with you about the timeline, but I think the "little brother" thing refers to the order in which each kid came into the family rather than the chronological birth order. Randall was the last kid to join the family and is also last in the Big Three chant.

[romantic idiot]

12 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

My grandma's in a family heirloom at this point

Hee :-)

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, romantic idiot said:

Hee :-)

Fixed!

[methodwriter85]

Quote

I'm willing to fanwalk that since they plan on jumping back and forth in time with Rebecca/Jack that's it's easier for Milo keep his Selleck style mustache and hair and style it as best they can to keep within the time period.  As we saw last night, aging Mandy Moore to look 72 didn't work out as well.

I also didn't really see it as big of deal, because 1987 Jack is a middle-aged guy and I've seen plenty of middle-aged people who don't really "look" like they're from the contemporary time period. I've always had this pet theory that sometimes people get "stuck" with a hairstyle/general look from when they felt the most beautiful/attractive, hence why even now you'll see women in their 50's walking around in fried Farrah hairstyles, or this woman in her early 40's I saw who had very dated 1996 layered hair going on.

The kids look fine for the late 80's. I wouldn't have guessed them as early/mid-90's kids (my era), but they didn't look like they would have stood out in classroom pictures for my older siblings. And the Webster jokes seemed pretty period. Also, if the flashbacks are taking place in suburban Pittsburgh, pretty realistic- even in the early 2010's when I lived in that region for grad school, I saw/encountered some pretty racist and homophobic stuff.

I do think Justin Hartley doesn't really have the chops to pull off the storyline- he's fine for fun, lightfare soap opera stuff because he can coast on charisma, but he's never done anything to suggest to me that he can be more than that. Although maybe that's the point of the storyline- Kevin's not suited for more, and he's in for a rude awakening if he tries to hang with the heavyweights of theater. If it turns out that Kevin is an Tony-caliber actor, I'll be annoyed.

[biakbiak]

 also didn't really see it as big of deal, because 1987 Jack is a middle-aged guy and I've seen plenty of middle-aged people who don't really "look" like they're from the contemporary time period

Yeah my dad is the same age as Jack would be today and the only thing about his look that has changed during my lifetime is that his moustache and hair are now white.

[Chaos Theory]

On 10/1/2016 at 2:40 PM, Duke2801 said:

They weren't infants at that time.  They were 8. 

That's even worse.  At this point we are all just guessing given only a few clues as to how Rebecca and Miguel end up together.  We might as well say she murders Jack in his sleep and Miguel alibies her under the condition he marries her.  With only two episodes in we don't have enough information to see how things went bad or even if they did.  Which is fine by me.  The show is so far interesting enough to go along for the ride.

[lovinbob]

On 9/29/2016 at 3:15 PM, Randomosity said:

This is exactly what I've been thinking while watching the episode and then seeing comments here about forcing a diet that leads to more issues later. Well, I've been varying degrees of overweight since the first hints of puberty reared their ugly head around age 9. I still struggle with weight as an adult (though I'm not as big as Kate), and I often think back about how my parents handled it. Like Kate, I had a rail-thin brother who could eat whatever. But they still didn't force diets on me, they let me be. Many, many times I wish that HAD exerted more control over what I ate as a kid to essentially nip the weight gain in the bud. I don't know. I'm no child psychologist, so maybe I would have been worse off if they had forced cantaloupe and cottage cheese on me. But I can't believe it was much better for them to allow me to gain like I did. I suppose that since nothing can be changed now, it's easy to say that they should have taken a different approach and maybe things would have been better, but we obviously can't know. (I still remember my pediatrician telling my teenage self that if I just stopped eating so many cookies, the weight would come off. I was old enough and smart enough to recognize the absurdity of that advice. I still can't believe now, looking back, that she was so blase about my size. There's so much more to weight than that! Not to mention, I was later diagnosed with a condition that slows metabolism that she clearly didn't think to look for. Plus, on a superficial level, cookies were never the problem - I've always been about savory stuff :) )

Amen! I think parenting an overweight kid is extremely difficult. 

I am an overweight woman. I wasn't always obese, and I'm not as big as Kate, but I'm much bigger than I should be. My sister is morbidly obese and has been since pre-adolescence. Our mother was heavy and always on a diet--Weight Watchers, Atkins, Overeaters Anonymous, and more. She was (and still is, actually) always trying to walk that line between promoting good health and giving us a complex. She tried all the tactics—dieting together, trying to be active together, just focusing on herself and hoping we would follow her lead ... we all still ended up heavy. (Struggling with depression and dealing with an alcoholic husband didn't help her situation.) Anyway, my sister, who is about to have bariatric surgery, can't talk to my mother about weight because of how it "triggers" her. Meanwhile my mother is just concerned and wants my sister to be happy. 

And now I have an absolutely 4 year old daughter who loves to eat. She isn't overweight at all, but I can't help but look down the road toward what might come. And I am dealing with my own emotional and physical issues that keep me from being my best self. It isn't easy and there isn't one way to do it right, or to avoid screwing up.

Edited October 9, 2016 by lovinbob

[CarolMK]

I missed the third episode but saw the first two and have a question- did Randall's biological mother die? It was just William left alone with the baby? I wasn't clear about that. I wonder how long he had Randall before he dropped him off at the police station.

Regarding Kate and her weight as a child, I remember being 14 back in 1977, a few years before this show- and my friends and I rode our bikes everywhere. Except for field hockey, we did not play organized sport. One of our friends in our group of 4 was approximately 200 lb while the rest of us were probably in the 110-125 range. I remember she had said her doctor was pleased that she lost 20 lbs over the one summer we were all hanging out every day, riding bikes and swimming in the one girl's backyard pool. She also mentioned her doctor hadn't put her on a diet but her mother was okay with it. The problem with dieting is that most of the time, it really just doesn't work. As an adult, I've struggled to lose 30, then 50, and finally 85 lbs on 3 separate occasions over a 20 year period, only to find myself gaining it back. Now that I'm 53, I don't see that it will be possible to lose that much again unless I get weight loss surgery, and even that is no guarantee of success..I've seen people lose and gain weight back within 5 years of surgery. 

[PRgal]

14 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

I missed the third episode but saw the first two and have a question- did Randall's biological mother die? It was just William left alone with the baby? I wasn't clear about that. I wonder how long he had Randall before he dropped him off at the police station.

Regarding Kate and her weight as a child, I remember being 14 back in 1977, a few years before this show- and my friends and I rode our bikes everywhere. Except for field hockey, we did not play organized sport. One of our friends in our group of 4 was approximately 200 lb while the rest of us were probably in the 110-125 range. I remember she had said her doctor was pleased that she lost 20 lbs over the one summer we were all hanging out every day, riding bikes and swimming in the one girl's backyard pool. She also mentioned her doctor hadn't put her on a diet but her mother was okay with it. The problem with dieting is that most of the time, it really just doesn't work. As an adult, I've struggled to lose 30, then 50, and finally 85 lbs on 3 separate occasions over a 20 year period, only to find myself gaining it back. Now that I'm 53, I don't see that it will be possible to lose that much again unless I get weight loss surgery, and even that is no guarantee of success..I've seen people lose and gain weight back within 5 years of surgery. 

This is the issue.  Many kids just don't play like you did growing up - or even me (I'm the same age as The Big Three).  I frequently biked around the neighbourhood, went to the playground, played in my backyard and in backyards of friends, etc, etc...

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, CarolMK said:

I missed the third episode but saw the first two and have a question- did Randall's biological mother die? It was just William left alone with the baby? I wasn't clear about that. I wonder how long he had Randall before he dropped him off at the police station.

They said she died in childbirth. It was suggested he dropped the baby off at the fire station the same day, afterward. But the timeline has been, depending on your perspective, ambiguous and/or fairly improbable given what we have seen so far. We don't know yet if some of the things that have been stated outright will been proven false later as a plotpoint, or if it's just fudged to make the plot work.

[Hanahope]

Watched #2 last night.

I do hope that William ends up being a straight up guy, who really wants to be and do good for his last years or months.  Randall and Beth look like good parents, and yes, Sterling can keep his shirt off.

I too on the one hand don't see why its so hard to Kevin to do the show for another 2 years.  They do, what 22 episodes at the most per year?  So with review script, practice and performance he works 3-4 days a week for 22 weeks a year?  Is it that hard?  I can understand not liking your job, and I suppose since he was getting paid $3 mill a year, he probably/maybe/hopefully has some of that saved up, but for most of us, we work at jobs we don't really like because we absolutely have to, and thats 50 weeks a year.  So suck it up Kevin, enjoy the money and the exposure and maybe ask instead for a break to do a movie during the other 30 weeks of the year.

Kate, well, I can totally relate to her story line, being overweight as a kid myself and being forced to diet from a very young age (breakfast and lunch only, at dinner we ate very fattening foods because that's what my father liked), which in my case led to years of yo-yo weight and now the heaviest I've ever been.  And like others have said, back then, there weren't as many sports around for kids to play in.  You had to try out for school teams and if you weren't good enough, you didn't get in.  The only 'pay' sports in my area was the dance and gymnastics classes, were again, if you weren't very good, you weren't really wanted.  And sometimes, exercise still only does a little.  I road my bike a lot and I still was overweight throughout my youth.  course, being forced to diet at times at home, didn't stop me from buying bad food at the corner market or at my school with my allowance.  Being denied just led to cheating.

I'd suggest to Kate, now as an adult, to add in weight lifting in addition to the aerobics.  Weight lifting may seem to add weight, or at least not lose it, because it adds muscle mass, but it reduces the size, eventually, and its a lot easier to see improvements.  It really helps to be able to add another 5 pounds to whatever weight machine you're working on.

But I get her story line.  Being obese is a major part of one's life.  It affects your job, its harder to get one, its harder to get a raise or promotion.  It affects your friends sometimes, especially if dating is involved.  It can affect hobbies, you're limited to only certain ones.  It obviously affects shopping.  And being fat is, these days, one of the last remaining prejudices.  People look at you and think you're lazy, and a glutton, and no one tells them they are wrong for thinking that, because everyone thinks, oh all you have to do is walk and put down the food.  Oh I wish it was that simple.

I'm sure we will see other story lines for her, but for now, I'm fine with a focus being on her weight and dealing with it.

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

On both shows so far there has been dialogue that stood out to me as being rather odd. In this week's epi when Jack came home late he asks Rebecca if he missed "putting them down". I can't say I have ever heard that phrase used for 8 year olds. Babies yes. Also a few minutes later Rebecca asks Jack "How do you think we are doing so far at parenting?". Again it sounds like they are new at this, rather than have been parenting for 8 years at this point. It almost sounds like the writers wrote these lines for children who would have been quite young, and then decided to age the kids several years in the second episode but didn't change the lines. I also thought that Rebecca's line that she did individualized tuck ins for each kid so no one feels gyped made no sense. How else do you tuck in three kids in three different beds?

Not too unusual to hear someone say "putting them down," though "tucking them in" is probably more likely. Rebecca and Jack probably shared the nightly ritual of tucking the kids in, and so she made this comment about having to do it herself. 

 

Quote

I too on the one hand don't see why its so hard to Kevin to do the show for another 2 years.  They do, what 22 episodes at the most per year?  So with review script, practice and performance he works 3-4 days a week for 22 weeks a year?  Is it that hard?  I can understand not liking your job, and I suppose since he was getting paid $3 mill a year, he probably/maybe/hopefully has some of that saved up, but for most of us, we work at jobs we don't really like because we absolutely have to, and thats 50 weeks a year.  So suck it up Kevin, enjoy the money and the exposure and maybe ask instead for a break to do a movie during the other 30 weeks of the year.

I think in Kevin's case he was thinking here he is at 36 working on a show that to him, and maybe others with power in the industry, is a joke. It may not lead to more roles, or good roles. Maybe he is not getting good role offers in the off season. Even his manager told him that he wasn't funny and should be grateful for "The Manny." It has to do with his self esteem and career longevity. Two years in this business is a long time. 

[Literata]

My guess: Jack is in some kind of care facility. Maybe he has been for a while. Perhaps he was driving drunk, got into a horrible accident and was left physically/mentally compromised. She's wearing the necklace; I have no doubt our takeaway from that is supposed to be that they didn't divorce.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, Literata said:

My guess: Jack is in some kind of care facility. Maybe he has been for a while. Perhaps he was driving drunk, got into a horrible accident and was left physically/mentally compromised. She's wearing the necklace; I have no doubt our takeaway from that is supposed to be that they didn't divorce.

If that's the case, would Rebecca be able to legally marry Miguel?  Jack's not dead and can't consent to a divorce.

[ShadowFacts]

25 minutes ago, PRgal said:

If that's the case, would Rebecca be able to legally marry Miguel?  Jack's not dead and can't consent to a divorce.

We don't know they are actually married.  They may be.  The kids calling Miguel Grandpa is ambiguous; I am called Grandma by someone who will in the future be my step-grandchild. 

[biakbiak]

13 hours ago, PRgal said:

If that's the case, would Rebecca be able to legally marry Miguel?  Jack's not dead and can't consent to a divorce.

You can actually get a divorce in many places if your spouse is incompetent/in a coma. A judge will appoint a guardian to act on behalf of the spouse.

Edited October 20, 2016 by biakbiak

[SueB]

Watched Kevin and Randall again.  I think it's clear that Kevin had a moment on the set where he realized that playing the clown was just eating his soul. It was clearly something that had been building for a while. And the show runner treated him like dirt.  So when he called himself a whore, he really felt that was true.  Like his only value was to make money by being a funny himbo on TV.  And he was trapped, not because he was valuable but because it would be annoying to the network exec to have to deal with it.  Everything about that situation made it clear that his agent, the show-runner, the exec all thought he was worthless as a person but valuable as their 'property'. It really was a very very demeaning environment.  But, he was prepared to just "suck it up" as he believed he DESERVED how he was being treated. And then Randall told him "Mom and Dad didn't raise any whores...".  And Kevin knew.  Kevin knew that he'd rather be "Nagasaki'd" than continue to feel like a hollow shell.  For me, that was a very powerful moment between the two men.  Kevin was in a great deal of pain but still reached out to Randall because he trusted him, despite their obvious friction.  And Randall cared enough about Kevin to give him very valuable advise.  

While I agree that people should respect their contracts, treating him with such disrespect IMO put the agent/show-runner/exec in the wrong and I supported Kevin saving his own mental health.  

And anyone who says "you know I care about what everyone thinks" indicates Kevin has pretty low self-esteem when it comes right down to it. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/28/2016 at 11:10 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I highly recommend Huge (created by Winnie Holzman of My So-Called Life). Despite the fact that it aired on ABC Family, it was a really great show about overweight teenagers who were struggling with their weight. I thought it was very well written as it addressed the various characters' issues with their weight realistically but it also gave them distinct personalities, interests, and struggles with other things too. Nikki Blonsky, Gina Torres, and Paul Dooley are the most well known cast members but all of the actors were very good (which is not something I expect from unknowns on an ABC Family show).

I just looked up chrissy on Wikipedia and it seems she was in this as well. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by love2lovebadtv
Typo

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/29/2016 at 1:25 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I am still on the fence regarding this show, so I guess will keep watching until I fall off. On both shows so far there has been dialogue that stood out to me as being rather odd. In this week's epi when Jack came home late he asks Rebecca if he missed "putting them down". I can't say I have ever heard that phrase used for 8 year olds. Babies yes. Also a few minutes later Rebecca asks Jack "How do you think we are doing so far at parenting?". Again it sounds like they are new at this, rather than have been parenting for 8 years at this point. It almost sounds like the writers wrote these lines for children who would have been quite young, and then decided to age the kids several years in the second episode but didn't change the lines. I also thought that Rebecca's line that she did individualized tuck ins for each kid so no one feels gyped made no sense. How else do you tuck in three kids in three different beds?

In last week's epi, Kate's line that she could not believe that Toby had a crush on Sally Field because she was close to 60 was odd. As someone who has been fat shamed it seemed odd to me that she would age shame someone. And yes, Kate obviously has problems losing weight and may or may not succeed, but no one can change their age. Also Sally Field is almost 70 and looks fabulous, which I don't think Kate may necessarily achieve at and age....or weight. If for no other reason that her dour personality.

I would have to re-watch but I didn't think she was age-shaming,  maybe just surprised he's interested in in someone who is probably older than his mother. I don't recall exactly what she said so I could be wrong but that's what I took from it. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/29/2016 at 10:33 AM, alexa said:

I agree.  I would prefer something in between that represents more of the norm.  Going to the obese end of things is not necessarily representative of average.  There are so many people slightly overweight that would do the trick if you wanted to have the option to address some weight issues on TV.  Speaking of Gilmore Girls, I think they did one thing very right with weight--Sookie was always about being Sookie, not about her weight.  She was no lightweight, but she was a fun and quirky character, and she also got a great guy and had kids in the end.  Her weight was rarely an issue, and I liked that....she was a person, and you got to know her for who she was.  

I'm not familiar with that character but I wouldn't compare Kate to another character just because they're both plus-sized. I don't think this show is making a statement about what the average woman really looks like.  I think it's telling a completely different story with this character. I'd really like to hear her story - all of it. Her weight is not her whole story but it's certainly a big part of it. Not because she's plus-sized but because of her history and also the sheer fact that her weight is always right in front of her face. She has to worry about chairs holding her up and other everyday occurrences. As far as wanting to see more of the character than her weight issues,  I get that. But it's just the second episode.  We haven't seen Kevin anything but whine about his job. No mention of a significant other or anything except Manny. I'm definitely interested in Kate's story. I feel like we're just getting started with it. 

[alexa]

10 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I'm not familiar with that character but I wouldn't compare Kate to another character just because they're both plus-sized. I don't think this show is making a statement about what the average woman really looks like.  I think it's telling a completely different story with this character. I'd really like to hear her story - all of it. Her weight is not her whole story but it's certainly a big part of it. Not because she's plus-sized but because of her history and also the sheer fact that her weight is always right in front of her face. She has to worry about chairs holding her up and other everyday occurrences. As far as wanting to see more of the character than her weight issues,  I get that. But it's just the second episode.  We haven't seen Kevin anything but whine about his job. No mention of a significant other or anything except Manny. I'm definitely interested in Kate's story. I feel like we're just getting started with it. 

Well, I ditched this show after a few episodes, so it is all good.  Glad it is a story you are interested in, and hope you continue to enjoy it.  

[smores]

The struggles between Kate and her mother regarding weight do seem true to the time period for me.  I am slightly older than the big three and as I got to be older as a kid, I put on some weight (in hindsight, I kind of think it was just me starting to hit puberty, as if I spit out the numbers, my BMI was totally normal).  This kind of freaked my parents out, and while we were always that house were you couldn't have a bunch of junk food, limited tv, etc, things got a lot stricter.  I have a sibling who is a few years younger than I am, and there were lots of times they would be allowed ice cream, but I would be told I didn't need it.  Other foods were restricted, and there were some forced workouts as well over the years.  And of course, my weight now goes up and down.  Part of that is because I have a shitty thyroid, but, there's also a part of it that goes back to what you learn as a kid.

I will say, though, that while I absolutely don't agree with the approach my parents took, I do believe that they were trying to do the right thing.  In their minds, this was what would help, and now, 30 years later, I think that if they had a do-over, they would do things completely differently.  I think that's the situation with Rebecca.  She was doing what she thought was best then, but it's being viewed through today's eyes.  

[Miles]

Gooood. This has to be the schmalziest show ever created. And I swear I'm going to murder all those acustic guitar players.

Why do a lot of my fellow gays seem to love this show so much? I thought I was in tune with "gay culture" with my undying love for the Golden Girls, musicals and Abba, but I guess not.

Also little brother is an idiot. Two years for sitcom star money and famedom? You can do two measily years, you spoiled brat. Almost everybody has to "whore themselves out" for jobs they don't like. If you didn't want that, you shouldn't have signed such a long contract.