S01.E02: The Big Three

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I actually don't mind Kate's storyline. I can relate. I can't say I have watched an overweight person's storyline treated with any depth where the issue wasn't wrapped up in a comical (even if poignant) way at the end of a (meaning one episode-really?) show.

I highly recommend Huge (created by Winnie Holzman of My So-Called Life). Despite the fact that it aired on ABC Family, it was a really great show about overweight teenagers who were struggling with their weight. I thought it was very well written as it addressed the various characters' issues with their weight realistically but it also gave them distinct personalities, interests, and struggles with other things too. Nikki Blonsky, Gina Torres, and Paul Dooley are the most well known cast members but all of the actors were very good (which is not something I expect from unknowns on an ABC Family show).

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, Tiger said:

The folks at CBS are still love with the 'fat and/or dumb husband + hot & smart wife' comedies.  Im actually surprised something akin to "The Manny" isnt airing on that net right now.

I had the same reaction. It wouldn't shock me at all to see a show where a man makes a comment (a joke?) about breastfeeding a baby.

1 hour ago, fastiller said:

Regarding where Beth and Randall live: when Kevin called the phone showed an 862 area code, which is NJ.  I know it is a cell phone, but I think the implication is suburban NY, within an 1.5 hour bus trip to Philly.

Was it 862? That's my area code. And while I could certainly drive to Philly in an hour and a half, there's no way I could take a bus that made it that fast. Or even get a direct bus there. But that's exciting, no one ever lives in my area on TV shows.

[Cardie]

The bus trip takes him three hours each way--that's why he doesn't get home till late at night. Randall probably works in an NYC firm and lives in NJ.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I had the same reaction. It wouldn't shock me at all to see a show where a man makes a comment (a joke?) about breastfeeding a baby.

Was it 862? That's my area code. And while I could certainly drive to Philly in an hour and a half, there's no way I could take a bus that made it that fast. Or even get a direct bus there. But that's exciting, no one ever lives in my area on TV shows.

The bus ride was three hours each way, he leaves in the morning and doesn't get back until night time.

Edited September 29, 2016 by biakbiak

[KaveDweller]

4 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

The bus ride was three hours each way, he leaves in the morning and doesn't get back until night time.

Right, I thought the original post said that if it was NJ it shouldn't really take three hours each way. But it is actually realistic, if that's where they are supposed to live. Buses make everything take longer than you'd think. 

[twoods]

Sterling is absolutely fantastic. All his scenes are riveting, especially the phone call with Kevin. You can feel the pain in his voice when he told Kevin that it's not too late to be a good brother- I started to cry thinking how isolated he must have felt growing up getting made fun of and having a brother that ignored him. I love the relationship between Randall and Beth- they are supportive and loving without being over the top shmoopey. I loved his reaction when Beth said what a bitch she is. For his sake, I hope his dad is honest and not out to con him out of money. 

That big three chant made me cry again. Damn, I'm a sap but I can't wait until the family dynamic is further fleshed out. Especially since Miguel is "grandpa" now.

Personal pet peeve- younger daughter should have been using a spacer for her steroid inhaler, and then rinsed her mouth out.  It's not a medical drama so will let that slide. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by twoods

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

I'm putting this out there: I wouldn't be surprised if the necklace Jack gave Rebecca was something that Miguel picked out and that's part of the reason why she wears it. That could give some hope to Jack's fate in present day. 

Actually I believe that both Rebecca and Jack said the half moon necklace was a symbol of "their song." ( not sure what song they were referring to.) Anyone know or remember?

[UsernameFatigue]

I am still on the fence regarding this show, so I guess will keep watching until I fall off. On both shows so far there has been dialogue that stood out to me as being rather odd. In this week's epi when Jack came home late he asks Rebecca if he missed "putting them down". I can't say I have ever heard that phrase used for 8 year olds. Babies yes. Also a few minutes later Rebecca asks Jack "How do you think we are doing so far at parenting?". Again it sounds like they are new at this, rather than have been parenting for 8 years at this point. It almost sounds like the writers wrote these lines for children who would have been quite young, and then decided to age the kids several years in the second episode but didn't change the lines. I also thought that Rebecca's line that she did individualized tuck ins for each kid so no one feels gyped made no sense. How else do you tuck in three kids in three different beds?

In last week's epi, Kate's line that she could not believe that Toby had a crush on Sally Field because she was close to 60 was odd. As someone who has been fat shamed it seemed odd to me that she would age shame someone. And yes, Kate obviously has problems losing weight and may or may not succeed, but no one can change their age. Also Sally Field is almost 70 and looks fabulous, which I don't think Kate may necessarily achieve at and age....or weight. If for no other reason that her dour personality.

[buttersister]

And also, is it wrong to want to watch Katey Sagal's and Brad Garrett's characters Nagasaki Kevin? (And did the writers think Nagasaki was somehow less offensive than Hiroshima? Or going nuclear on your ass?)

[Corgi-ears]

6 hours ago, atomationage said:

There's no padding.  That's all Chrissy Metz. 

On the other hand, I suspect that Chris Sullivan is padded for the role. Given this, and Kate's cranky comment at the gym about how she can't understand why Toby's losing weight and she's not, I have a guess about one direction their storyline might go.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Corgi-ears

[fastiller]

8 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I had the same reaction. It wouldn't shock me at all to see a show where a man makes a comment (a joke?) about breastfeeding a baby.

Was it 862? That's my area code. And while I could certainly drive to Philly in an hour and a half, there's no way I could take a bus that made it that fast. Or even get a direct bus there. But that's exciting, no one ever lives in my area on TV shows.

Well, it was a cell phone, so it -- the phone itself -- doesn't need to be too far away from Philly.

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

The bus trip takes him three hours each way--that's why he doesn't get home till late at night. Randall probably works in an NYC firm and lives in NJ.

I thought he said the trip takes him three hours each day.  I'll have to re-watch.  I could imagine that William doesn't just walk into his place, feed the cat (what was it he said the name was?), then leave, bookended by two 3-hour bus rides.  I wouldn't do that to my cat: more likely would be for me to spend a couple of hours with the cat.  Check the mail, etc...  

On another topic: it's interesting to me that both Ks have such issues related to body & body image (whether internal or external).  She's all about her weight and wanting to be thin; he's all about rebelling against this image that the network has built around how fit he is.  

Edit: one script I found says three hours each day.  Oh, and the cat's name is Clooney.

Edited September 29, 2016 by fastiller

[Haleth]

I find it interesting that of the three kids Randall was the one who is the least screwed up.  Yeah, it was established that the idea that he was abandoned ate at him for 36 years, but it seems to have been deep enough to not affect his daily life.  And growing up he was the odd one out, sometimes treated cruelly by his brother and classmates.  But adult Randall has a loving, healthy relationship with a wonderful wife, his kids are happy and charming, and he is obviously successful in his profession.  Practically perfect.  I hope William is telling the truth because Randall will be devastated if he loses his biodad a second time.

I can't be too sympathetic to Kevin.  He Nagasakied his own show.  Even if he were to agree to go back he lost the audience with his outburst.  The show would end up cancelled anyway and he'd be blackballed by the network.  Why he couldn't stick it out for 2 years (with half the year free to do other projects), I don't understand.  He should be begging for another chance.

Kate.  I agree that it would be good to see a storyline outside the weight struggle.  Does anyone else think they might have the character (and actress) go through a medical procedure so we see some progress?  Because week after week of Toby losing weight while Kate gets increasingly frustrated will get old.

I was shocked to see Miguel as Grandpa.  

Edited September 29, 2016 by Haleth

[random chance]

4 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

On the other hand, I suspect that Chris Sullivan is padded for the role. Given this, and Kate's cranky comment at the gym about how she can't understand why Toby's losing weight and she's not, I have a guess about one direction their storyline might go.

What's your guess? I just figured it was a comment on how it's easier for men to lose weight.

22 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Kate.  I agree that it would be good to see a storyline outside the weight struggle.  Does anyone else think they might have the character (and actress) go through a medical procedure so we see some progress?  Because week after week of Toby losing weight while Kate gets increasingly frustrated will get old.

 

I hope they do something like that because it would be too depressing to have her only storyline be losing weight, and then she never loses weight.

Although really, the only storyline that's interesting to me at this point is Randall's, and I wouldn't mind if that was a show by itself and Kevin and Kate were just background characters. I couldn't care less about his career and while I root for her to be successful, Kate's story isn't as interesting as Randall's.

[Corgi-ears]

3 minutes ago, random chance said:

What's your guess? I just figured it was a comment on how it's easier for men to lose weight.

Oh, I would just guess that Toby will end up becoming thin(ner) -- which will be easy for the actor to do -- and this will make a still-heavy Kate question whether he'll leave her, if he loves her, was their connection ever real etc.. Given the show's penchant for twists, maybe we'll even get some sort of shocking "six months later" smash cut in which we suddenly see Toby be all svelte and hunky.

[ShadowFacts]

46 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Kate.  I agree that it would be good to see a storyline outside the weight struggle.  Does anyone else think they might have the character (and actress) go through a medical procedure so we see some progress?  Because week after week of Toby losing weight while Kate gets increasingly frustrated will get old.

I really love that they have a character who is not model-svelte or super sexy-curvy, and I'm sure it resonates with a lot of viewers (I am no lightweight myself).  The next frontier I'd like to see approached in tv land is having not necessarily obese women, but reality-based women.  I just heard a news report that the average size of an American woman is 16.  Not everyone's a size 2, not everyone's obese, there's a whole lot of in-between that we don't see represented much. 

[Chaos Theory]

From what I understood from the plot all the kids are addicts in the loosest sense of the word.  The conversation Randall's wife (whose name escapes me even though it shouldn't she is awesome) had with Randall's bio dad was telling.  She mentioned his vice was perfection which makes sense being the adopted black son of a middle class white family with two other kids vying for attention.  Kate  vice is food and I do think she will get other stories but I think her food issues will always be there in the background.  Kevin's vice or addiction is being liked.  He wants and needs everyone to like him. I am not sure I feel sorry for him perse but Kare made a point of saying everything came so easy for him most of his life it will be interesting to see him work for something.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[random chance]

20 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I really love that they have a character who is not model-svelte or super sexy-curvy, and I'm sure it resonates with a lot of viewers (I am no lightweight myself).  The next frontier I'd like to see approached in tv land is having not necessarily obese women, but reality-based women.  I just heard a news report that the average size of an American woman is 16.  Not everyone's a size 2, not everyone's obese, there's a whole lot of in-between that we don't see represented much. 

That is an excellent point. It seems like either they have to be morbidly obese and then that's the whole story, or they're stick thin and that's just treated as normal - like there's no work involved there at all, they're just not fat-prone so they can eat what they want. (Gilmore Girls syndrome.) I wonder why they chose to make Kate morbidly obese, there would have been a lot more story options if she was, say, a size 18. Maybe it's part of some twist.

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

On both shows so far there has been dialogue that stood out to me as being rather odd. In this week's epi when Jack came home late he asks Rebecca if he missed "putting them down". I can't say I have ever heard that phrase used for 8 year olds. Babies yes. Also a few minutes later Rebecca asks Jack "How do you think we are doing so far at parenting?". Again it sounds like they are new at this, rather than have been parenting for 8 years at this point. It almost sounds like the writers wrote these lines for children who would have been quite young, and then decided to age the kids several years in the second episode but didn't change the lines. I also thought that Rebecca's line that she did individualized tuck ins for each kid so no one feels gyped made no sense. How else do you tuck in three kids in three different beds?

Not too unusual to hear someone say "putting them down," though "tucking them in" is probably more likely. Rebecca and Jack probably shared the nightly ritual of tucking the kids in, and so she made this comment about having to do it herself. 

[Enigma X]

33 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

From what I understood from the plot all the kids are addicts in the loosest sense of the word.  The conversation Randall's wife (whose name escapes me even though it shouldn't she is awesome) had with Randall's bio dad was telling.  She mentioned his vice was perfection which makes sense being the adopted black son of a middle class white family with two other kids vying for attention.  Kate  vice is food and I do think she will get other stories but I think her food issues will always be there in the background.  Kevin's vice or addiction is being liked.  He wants and needs everyone to like him. I am not sure I feel sorry for him perse but Kare made a point of saying everything came so easy for him most of his life it will be interesting to see him work for something.

@Chaos Theory, this is a great summation, and I agree with all of it.

[alexa]

19 minutes ago, random chance said:

That is an excellent point. It seems like either they have to be morbidly obese and then that's the whole story, or they're stick thin and that's just treated as normal - like there's no work involved there at all, they're just not fat-prone so they can eat what they want. (Gilmore Girls syndrome.) I wonder why they chose to make Kate morbidly obese, there would have been a lot more story options if she was, say, a size 18. Maybe it's part of some twist.

I agree.  I would prefer something in between that represents more of the norm.  Going to the obese end of things is not necessarily representative of average.  There are so many people slightly overweight that would do the trick if you wanted to have the option to address some weight issues on TV.  Speaking of Gilmore Girls, I think they did one thing very right with weight--Sookie was always about being Sookie, not about her weight.  She was no lightweight, but she was a fun and quirky character, and she also got a great guy and had kids in the end.  Her weight was rarely an issue, and I liked that....she was a person, and you got to know her for who she was.  

[MaggieG]

I'm really enjoying this show. Love Randall and Beth. I'm on the train that believes Jack has died. Maybe the marriage to Miguel is more recent and that is why Randall was a little hostile when he saw him? At this point, I'm not speculating too much, just kind of going with it.

I don't really care for Kevin's storyline too much, but Justin Hartley is just too pretty, so I'll deal with yet. Yes, I'm shallow. Not even ashamed to admit I would have watched a terrible show like The Manny just for him LOL.

I loved the phone call between the brothers. The chant, the "mom and dad didn't raise no whores." It got me.

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, fastiller said:

I thought he said the trip takes him three hours each day.  I'll have to re-watch.  I could imagine that William doesn't just walk into his place, feed the cat (what was it he said the name was?), then leave, bookended by two 3-hour bus rides.  I wouldn't do that to my cat: more likely would be for me to spend a couple of hours with the cat.  Check the mail, etc...  

 

I rewatched a couple of times. It's definitely 3 hours each way. Beth makes a point of saying that he's gone all day, and if they live in New Jersey, it would make sense as to why William might be away from the house for hours and it would make sense as to why Beth would buy the story. If it was only three hours each day, she wouldn't have let him off on his cat story. I'm positive he does more than just feed his cat (he might spent some time with the cat, but also he has time to do other things), but him traveling back and forth gives him an excuse for not being around until later at night. 

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

Not too unusual to hear someone say "putting them down," though "tucking them in" is probably more likely. Rebecca and Jack probably shared the nightly ritual of tucking the kids in, and so she made this comment about having to do it herself. 

It sounded to me as if she's been doing the 'putting down' or 'tucking in' by herself more and more in the days/weeks just prior to that conversation too.

Edited September 29, 2016 by fastiller

[luna1122]

37 minutes ago, alexa said:

I agree.  I would prefer something in between that represents more of the norm.  Going to the obese end of things is not necessarily representative of average.  There are so many people slightly overweight that would do the trick if you wanted to have the option to address some weight issues on TV.  Speaking of Gilmore Girls, I think they did one thing very right with weight--Sookie was always about being Sookie, not about her weight.  She was no lightweight, but she was a fun and quirky character, and she also got a great guy and had kids in the end.  Her weight was rarely an issue, and I liked that....she was a person, and you got to know her for who she was.  

That's what I want for Kate. I've got weight issues as well, so I get it, and appreciate that a big girl can be on TV. But I just want her to have a LIFE that's not all about the weight. Most women--even we big chicks--have lives, rich, full lives with all kinds of interests and involvements and fun. Even on Mike and Molly, which did address weight, often, and often for a joke---both main characters had full lives with jobs and hobbies and interests. Weight was just one factor of the storylines. It IS only two episodes in, so maybe that will happen here too. I just really hope so.

A size 18 on tv would still be viewed as obese and gross and only worthy of fat jokes, most of the time. Katy Mixon, who played Melissa Mccarthy's sister on "mike and Molly' is not a small woman...i'm guessing she's about a 14-16.  She's in a recent (and really good) film called 'Hell or High Water', in which the Jeff Bridges character, a sheriff working a case, refers to her as 'the big girl'. And she's  on a new upcoming sitcom, the original title of which was 'Second Fattest Housewife in Westport".  If you're over a size six in Hollywood, you're pretty much just fat.

[StaceyNotStacie]

I like this, so far. I'm wondering what happened with the father. The other thing I wonder about is why Randall doesn't have a "K" name. That just seemed odd, unless that is his middle name and he prefers to go by it. 

Loved Katey Segal and Brad Garrett at the party. I was amused by how she was describing Kate as a "big girl". The scene with young Kate and her mother regarding the cantaloupe was sad. 

[Chaos Theory]

Most parents want to believe they are 9s and think (hope) they are while raising their kids and the ones who aren't outright abusive asshole monsters end up landing somewhere between 6-8.  It's only in retrospect we see their mistakes which is going to be what is interesting in this story as well.   I don't see Rebecca as a bad parent.  She told Kevin to have Randal's back when everyone was calling him "Webster". (FYI a clever way to deal with race without using the N word that would turn a lot of people off the show).  I think she just doesn't  know how to communicate with Kate.  (it took my mother and me forty years and a lot of hurt on both our parts to learn how to communicate and I would rate my mom a 7). I think that is what will be interesting about Rebbeca's story because she is a good mother but even good mothers screw up their kids.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[potatoradio]

I would give this show a lot less side-eye if, when flashback kiddo Kate meekly and tearfully says to her mom that "I just ate fruit today," the mom had responded with Beth's line: "Gee, I kind of feel like a bitch now." I might have liked the flashback mom a tiny bit better and had more hope for this storyline, but as it was, I merely want to dump sugar cereal all over that judgmental woman. I cheered the heck out of the dad pouring cereal for that kid. Kids completely absorb it when a parent doesn't accept them and thinks something is wrong with them and saying "we can be healthy together" doesn't even begin to undo the psychological damage of not accepting your kid's physical appearance and blatantly supporting fat phobia and hatred. 

Yeah, I get it, it's realistic to have fat people concerned and shamed about their weight. I have seen that storyline a million times, show, can you try something new? So that maybe some kid who is eating a kale salad and hating herself can see a different narrative? 

Gah - disappointing. Very much so. But I usually detest at least one storyline/character in shows like this, so....

Anyway, I'm still curious as to why Kevin seems to have no friends and what really prompted his meltdown. I have a hairtrigger gaydar, so I'm wondering if maybe he's in the closet or has some affair he's hiding or...something he's keeping from everyone. I hope he has a big secret, anyway, because a whining, employed actor? Cry me a river of headshots, buddy.

Cute twist. 

Family "cheer" utterly cringeworthy. I'm having flashbacks to "we Bravermans....well, us Bravermans..."

There's just something weird with the pacing - the big emotional "payoffs" still don't feel earned or built up. It's insta-emotion. I'm not even close to crying yet. But I am seriously in the mood for a big bowl of Count Chocula or Crunch Berries and playing Ms. Pac Man.

[random chance]

24 minutes ago, potatoradio said:

Kids completely absorb it when a parent doesn't accept them and thinks something is wrong with them and saying "we can be healthy together" doesn't even begin to undo the psychological damage of not accepting your kid's physical appearance and blatantly supporting fat phobia and hatred.

I'm not a parent so it's easy for me to say but, I would think that the better approach would be not having the sugary cereal in the house in the first place, and having everyone eat healthy food - not singling her out like a pariah while the boys wolf down sugary crap. It's not like sugar is magically good for you if you're thin. And there are plenty of healthy breakfast choices that also taste good, there's no reason to force someone to eat a protein or fruit they don't like.

Quote

Family "cheer" utterly cringeworthy. I'm having flashbacks to "we Bravermans....well, us Bravermans..."

I hate it too, I marvel that this was the best the writers could come up with.

[zumpie]

I find it interesting that of the three kids Randall was the one who is the least screwed up.  Yeah, it was established that the idea that he was abandoned ate at him for 36 years, but it seems to have been deep enough to not affect his daily life.  And growing up he was the odd one out, sometimes treated cruelly by his brother and classmates.  But adult Randall has a loving, healthy relationship with a wonderful wife, his kids are happy and charming, and he is obviously successful in his profession.  Practically perfect.  I hope William is telling the truth because Randall will be devastated if he loses his biodad a second time.

I can't be too sympathetic to Kevin.  He Nagasakied his own show.  Even if he were to agree to go back he lost the audience with his outburst.  The show would end up cancelled anyway and he'd be blackballed by the network.  Why he couldn't stick it out for 2 years (with half the year free to do other projects), I don't understand.  He should be begging for another chance.

Kate.  I agree that it would be good to see a storyline outside the weight struggle.  Does anyone else think they might have the character (and actress) go through a medical procedure so we see some progress?  Because week after week of Toby losing weight while Kate gets increasingly frustrated will get old.

I was shocked to see Miguel as Grandpa.  

I honestly kinda find everyone to be a bit loathsome (except maybe Randall and even then, I'll get more into that further down) and myself rapidly losing interest----cause there's just all sorts of cliches (while glossing over HUGE problems) going on here. And the excellent acting/my like of many of the actors themselves has ceased to make up for this:

Kevin: Fucking get over yourself, you pretentious artiste. You have a life literally billions would kill for. Plenty of people work at jobs they don't like and aren't nearly so well compensated for it. I want to punch you (and, for the record, I really like Justin Hartley----it's the same way Parenthood made me promptly hate both Monica Potter AND Peter Karuse, both of whom I previously really liked).

Kate: Your weight problem (which I'm finding it very weird that in a family full of super skinny people, she's always been obese) isn't merely needing to lose 40 or 50 pounds (I was skinny as a young adult and after having a kid at 35, gained 50+ pounds and never lost them, BTW....and eventually got tired of fighting it) through diet and exercise---you are at least 100 pounds overweight and should be under a doctor's care, because this isn't a beauty/ego thing, this is a medical condition.

Also, unlike the actress who portrays you, your life is apparently about taking care of your brother and being fat. Oh and now defined by your new boyfriend. That's sad.

Randall: I, too, was repeatedly abandoned by my parents and shuffled between relatives growing up---the message I repeatedly received was "if you aren't perfect, you're of no use to us" and was scapegoated (and still am) by nearly everyone in my family. Interesting, as an adult, I've found ways to make peace with all that. Oh and because this had me so screwed up, I was also bullied mercilessly in school, as well.

In your case you were chosen and grew up with what appear to be devoted parents, something many children not nearly as fortunate as yourself would kill for. As an adult you are ridiculously successful (it's strange we aren't shown any signs of that "driven" personality, that would've definitely already been there by age 8)----and while you earn an apparently obscene amount of $$$ (can't see anything less than what Kevin makes as a sitcom star even beginning to support Randall's lifestyle----that he isn't in debt for----in suburban NYC/NJ), your job is undemanding enough that you are home for dinner every night with your perfect wife and perfect daughters.

In fact, I'm fairly curious to learn what he does exactly, because there aren't a whole lot of jobs for anyone that give you that sort of income at 36 years old, entirely self made.

Beth: Is the show's Hope Steadman and I find her smug and judgy

Jack: cliched, more 1950's style husband, crawling into a bottle.

Rebecca: While I sympathize that your husband doesn't do as much parenting as you do (and, again, is crawling into a bottle), it appears that's your primary job (and TBH, in reality, he'd be frequently late many evenings due to business commitments)----so really, you don;t get the medal you've pinned on yourself for tucking in your three, school age children separately every night. You have lots of time, to yourself, all day long. And since the show is going the "paragon of virtue madonna" route versus the (more real life accurate accurate) "bored and unfulfilled SAHM", I'm already over the cliche (and by 1988, most households WERE two income and women were encouraged to have careers).

Toby: I get I'm supposed to think he's a Great Guy....I just find him irritating and self-satisfied, though.

William: actually the only character I find truly likable----maybe because he's so full of self loathing, lets everyone shit on him, etc....

Interiors: Jack and Rebecca's house is verrryyyy 1978, not 1988

Randall's house is totally huge from the exterior, yet its interior rooms are pretty small/average (particularly weird for the kitchen and living room, which would usually be quite large in such a house) and only has three bedrooms???? Particularly when they have older relatives who live close enough to visit, but far enough to need overnight sleeping quarters, I find it very hard to believe they don't have a guestroom and/or a den with a couch/fold out couch. Let alone a rumpus room, etc...that a house that size would absolutely have. My house is probably one third the size and I have both of those.....

Rebecca and Miguel (presumably) love 6 hours away, but are able to arrive at 7:30AM and didn't bother to call or text?????

[La Traviata]

I'd like to see lots of stories focused on Kate's weight. Im going to be bummed if they phase it out.  It's so important and something different than what we usually see.

I do hope they develop Beth a little more.  I don't want to see her so house wifey and always focused on the kids. 

[ShadowFacts]

47 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Most parents want to believe they are 9s and think (hope) they are while raising their kids and the ones who aren't outright abusive asshole monsters end up landing somewhere between 6-8.  It's only in retrospect we see their mistakes which is going to be what is interesting in this story as well.   I don't see Rebecca as a bad parent.  She told Kevin to have Randal's back when everyone was calling him "Webster". (FYI a clever way to deal with race without using the N word that would turn a lot of people off the show).  I think she just doesn't  know how to communicate with Kate.  (it took my mother and me forty years and a lot of hurt on both our parts to learn how to communicate and I would rate my mom a 7). I think that is what will be interesting about Rebbeca's story because she is a good mother but even good mothers screw up their kids.

I think people like Rebecca end up doing themselves a disservice with a rating system.  Being self-aware is good, and it's great if you can see where you need to change things up.  But parenting any child, let alone multiples, let alone when your partner is prioritizing happy hour, is all on the job learning, new situations every day with kids who are growing and changing all the time.  Abandonment, neglect, abuse means you have failed as a parent, but if your kid winds up with problems as an adult, including addiction, it doesn't mean the parent caused it.  We need to see a whole lot more interactions between the parents and Kate.  Just making dietary false steps doesn't determine Kate's entire future.  If Rebecca is shown to be very judgmental and makes Kate feel 'less than', that's a different story, that we have yet to see. 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On September 28, 2016 at 2:08 AM, voiceover said:

Ha! showing my age, but I thought Farrah & Charlie's Angels, Suzanne Somers & Three's Company.

Can't believe I forget to note Tonight's Meta: Toby yelling about bagging a Gilmore Girl, to the daughter of a man who actually did!

I did laugh out loud because I literally watched this episode right after watching the last 5 episodes of GG S2 (am binge-rewatching so I can segue right into the reunion series) ... and I still don't think I would have recognized Milo/Jess had I not known who he was.  

Also ... I am feeling ridiculously stupid, partly I guess because I did not read the entire thread from Episode 1 and my memory/logic is a little slow, but it absolutely took me until the end of this episode to figure out that the babies in Episode 1 are also the grownups rather than it just being a funny coincidence that the guy in the delivery room ALSO found a black baby left in a firehouse.  

Also-also, since I didn't recognize Mandy Moore when they said "it's grandma and grandpa," until I read THIS thread, I actually thought that Miguel was BETH'S dad and grandma was just some other woman and it was another coincidence that Jack's best friend was the dad of Randall's wife.

I'll just stumble back to Idiotville now.

[potatoradio]

Zumpie - I am kind in love with your post. Delicious, meat and potatoes analysis with a special snark sauce. I hope the show figures out a little less fake CRY and a little more originality, but if not, I look forward to more of your posts! Cheers -  

[zumpie]

I would give this show a lot less side-eye if, when flashback kiddo Kate meekly and tearfully says to her mom that "I just ate fruit today," the mom had responded with Beth's line: "Gee, I kind of feel like a bitch now." I might have liked the flashback mom a tiny bit better and had more hope for this storyline, but as it was, I merely want to dump sugar cereal all over that judgmental woman. I cheered the heck out of the dad pouring cereal for that kid. Kids completely absorb it when a parent doesn't accept them and thinks something is wrong with them and saying "we can be healthy together" doesn't even begin to undo the psychological damage of not accepting your kid's physical appearance and blatantly supporting fat phobia and hatred. 

Yeah, I get it, it's realistic to have fat people concerned and shamed about their weight. I have seen that storyline a million times, show, can you try something new? So that maybe some kid who is eating a kale salad and hating herself can see a different narrative? 

Gah - disappointing. Very much so. But I usually detest at least one storyline/character in shows like this, so....

Anyway, I'm still curious as to why Kevin seems to have no friends and what really prompted his meltdown. I have a hairtrigger gaydar, so I'm wondering if maybe he's in the closet or has some affair he's hiding or...something he's keeping from everyone. I hope he has a big secret, anyway, because a whining, employed actor? Cry me a river of headshots, buddy.

Cute twist. 

Family "cheer" utterly cringeworthy. I'm having flashbacks to "we Bravermans....well, us Bravermans..."

There's just something weird with the pacing - the big emotional "payoffs" still don't feel earned or built up. It's insta-emotion. I'm not even close to crying yet. But I am seriously in the mood for a big bowl of Count Chocula or Crunch Berries and playing Ms. Pac Man.

OMG!!! Are you in my head??? BTW, saw your very complimentary post above and thank you!! But yeah, I grew to quickly despise Parenthood for just that reason. And this show is doing much the same. It's a bunch of people who are jerks but are infinitely somehow pleased with themselves and I'm inexplicably supposed to love them, when I really want to smack them.

[zumpie]

Zumpie - I am kind in love with your post. Delicious, meat and potatoes analysis with a special snark sauce. I hope the show figures out a little less fake CRY and a little more originality, but if not, I look forward to more of your posts! Cheers -  

Awww, thanks! Just replied to your other post and agree!!!

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree with many points made here. I think my biggest issue is with the Kevin character.  Why is it being a whore to honor your contract? Lots of people rely on your word that you would work on a project for a certain amount of time.  So what, if you're not having fun. You are taking bread off a lot of other people's table.  It's not just the fat cats who suffer. when you breach a contract.  A lot of people go into making a show.    Sometimes adults have to honor their commitments.  Of course, they'll likely play this out that he made the right decision and makes a huge success of himself in NYC.  Please.  I really don't want to see that. 

 

I have more patience with the relationship with Jack and Rebecca.  They do seem to be in love, so is he just not into coming home after work because he's bored or is it the alcohol that is making him go to the bar?  I knew something was not good when he said he could quit the alcohol for her.  I've often heard that one thing people in AA have to admit is that they are powerless over alcohol.  IT's not that simple. 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

"With regards to Randall's father, has it only been said that he's "sick" so far?  With no named disease?"

I thought it was maybe colon cancer? Or something along those lines ... I think he says what it is in Episode 1, and shirtless Sterling on the treadmill is apparently reading up on it on his iPad ...

So, here is something I'd been wondering and I don't think anyone has "posited" yet (if they have, apologies) ... when Beth is mentioning the temporary blindness etc. that Randall had been going through and telling William about it, I thought she was heading in a direction that she wanted to ask William about HIS health history ... since Randall is the lone "Big Three" member about whom they don't know his genetic history, I wonder if he is actually ill or having health issues they don't want to talk about, but this is why he chose to try to track down his birth parents ... to find out if there are any genetic predispositions to certain diseases and in fact his "temporary blindness" etc. was not brought on by stress or kindness but by actual more serious health problems and they haven't wanted to share it with the siblings yet.

That could be a potential twist ... especially if he needs some sort of transplant or match ... trying not to overthink, but it occurred to me while watching, so reading this thread made me start to put some of the pieces together. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, random chance said:

15 hours ago, atomationage said:

There's no padding.  That's all Chrissy Metz. 

Ah, thanks for the info. Well, I'll be rooting for her!

But what if the actress is not all that interested in losing weight, or just isn't able to do it?

 

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

Kate.  I agree that it would be good to see a storyline outside the weight struggle.  Does anyone else think they might have the character (and actress) go through a medical procedure so we see some progress?

I certainly hope that undergoing a gastric bypass was not a condition of her employment on this show!

[Cardie]

8 minutes ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

"With regards to Randall's father, has it only been said that he's "sick" so far?  With no named disease?"

I thought it was maybe colon cancer? Or something along those lines ... I think he says what it is in Episode 1, and shirtless Sterling on the treadmill is apparently reading up on it on his iPad ...

William said he had Stage Four stomach cancer. (Two close friends of my family died of this and they wouldn't be able to endure six-hour bus trips at the end-stage!) 

[zumpie]

I agree with many points made here. I think my biggest issue is with the Kevin character.  Why is it being a whore to honor your contract? Lots of people rely on your word that you would work on a project for a certain amount of time.  So what, if you're not having fun. You are taking bread off a lot of other people's table.  It's not just the fat cats who suffer. when you breach a contract.  A lot of people go into making a show.    Sometimes adults have to honor their commitments.  Of course, they'll likely play this out that he made the right decision and makes a huge success of himself in NYC.  Please.  I really don't want to see that. 

 

I have more patience with the relationship with Jack and Rebecca.  They do seem to be in love, so is he just not into coming home after work because he's bored or is it the alcohol that is making him go to the bar?  I knew something was not good when he said he could quit the alcohol for her.  I've often heard that one thing people in AA have to admit is that they are powerless over alcohol.  IT's not that simple. 

It's only being a whore if you literally accept that pretty much EVERY form of compensated labor is a form of prostitution and involves doing something you don't like and being nice to people you'd just as soon tell to get bent.

I wouldn't entirely peg Jack as an alcoholic---yet....it very much depends on your definition. Currently he's more "heavy drinker" and seemingly could choose to quit. And, FYI, AA is not necessarily the definitive authority (having been found by lay people, relying on a peer pressure/replacing one addiction for another model, etc.). I suspect he'll be crawling much more deeply into the bottle, BTW

In fact the obsession with addiction across the board might be one of the OTHER things I most dislike about the show

[joanne3482]

26 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

But what if the actress is not all that interested in losing weight, or just isn't able to do it?

I read an interview and she is excited about this character and going down this path. 

[random chance]

27 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

But what if the actress is not all that interested in losing weight, or just isn't able to do it?

I assume that when she took the part they told her what they expected of her, and if she's not able to do it they can write that in?

[PRgal]

Considering Jack's age, I wonder if he is a Vietnam vet and has PTSD.  Let the season unfold, I guess...

[Randomosity]

I just got around to watching the episode and catching up on the posts here

 

On 9/27/2016 at 11:13 PM, mojoween said:

I was more annoyed with the woman in the support group who lost three pounds than I was with Madison the anorexic and the Wendy's litterer.

Ditto. I tried a Weight Watchers meeting through work once (and only once!). I so hated the cheering/clapping/preening for losing weight, especially such small amounts. Ugh. It really rubs me the wrong way. Why would I need to be praised for losing weight any more than I should be booed at if I gain? That 3-lb lady made me want to smack her!

 

On 9/28/2016 at 2:08 AM, voiceover said:

Can't believe I forget to note Tonight's Meta: Toby yelling about bagging a Gilmore Girl, to the daughter of a man who actually did!

Ha. I'm a major Gilmore Girls fan and I didn't even connect that in my head. Probably because I hated Jess. (And Dean, and Logan, fwiw.) This episode didn't exactly endear his new character to me either.

 

On 9/28/2016 at 8:00 AM, mojoween said:

Am I to believe that Rebecca was 72?  Because I do not

Yeah, not even close. Mandy Moore still looks to me like the high school kid she played in 'A Walk to Remember'. It was a stretch for her to play in her 40s with 8-year olds. They'd need far better makeup artists/CGI aging techniques to make 72 even moderately believable.

 

On 9/28/2016 at 8:58 AM, Seelouis said:

The 80's stuff to me didn't feel right.  It was supposed to be 1987 at that point.  I think Jack looks more like he's in the 70's.  Like they didn't change the styling from the first episode, which was 1979, to last night's, which was 8 years later and a whole other look. 

My dad still had that mustache in 1987. My dad still has that mustache... But I kind of agree. Not so much the house, because not everyone can update appliances/decor every couple of years to stay 'modern', but Mandy Moore's clothing still looked rather 70s. By '87, neon was taking hold...

 

On 9/28/2016 at 9:02 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

Did Kate's house look familiar to anyone....the doorway when Toby arrived? I was thinking the Walsh house from 90210 but not sure

YES! I thought that even last episode, when she was dumping out food out in front of the house.

 

17 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I feel for Rebecca dealing with a chubby child. It seems there's no right way to do it. If you're the diet police (which is the route she's taking at the moment) you give your child low self esteem and body issues. If you take a laissez faire attitude, you have to sit back and watch your child get fatter and be miserable.

This is exactly what I've been thinking while watching the episode and then seeing comments here about forcing a diet that leads to more issues later. Well, I've been varying degrees of overweight since the first hints of puberty reared their ugly head around age 9. I still struggle with weight as an adult (though I'm not as big as Kate), and I often think back about how my parents handled it. Like Kate, I had a rail-thin brother who could eat whatever. But they still didn't force diets on me, they let me be. Many, many times I wish that HAD exerted more control over what I ate as a kid to essentially nip the weight gain in the bud. I don't know. I'm no child psychologist, so maybe I would have been worse off if they had forced cantaloupe and cottage cheese on me. But I can't believe it was much better for them to allow me to gain like I did. I suppose that since nothing can be changed now, it's easy to say that they should have taken a different approach and maybe things would have been better, but we obviously can't know. (I still remember my pediatrician telling my teenage self that if I just stopped eating so many cookies, the weight would come off. I was old enough and smart enough to recognize the absurdity of that advice. I still can't believe now, looking back, that she was so blase about my size. There's so much more to weight than that! Not to mention, I was later diagnosed with a condition that slows metabolism that she clearly didn't think to look for. Plus, on a superficial level, cookies were never the problem - I've always been about savory stuff :) )

 

13 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

In last week's epi, Kate's line that she could not believe that Toby had a crush on Sally Field because she was close to 60 was odd. As someone who has been fat shamed it seemed odd to me that she would age shame someone. And yes, Kate obviously has problems losing weight and may or may not succeed, but no one can change their age. Also Sally Field is almost 70 and looks fabulous, which I don't think Kate may necessarily achieve at and age....or weight. If for no other reason that her dour personality.

I didn't read that as age shaming at all. I don't think it was any sort of judgement against Sally Field. I think Kate, as most people would be, was just surprised by a 30-something (or early 40s) guy swooning over a woman nearly 70 years old.

 

1 hour ago, zumpie said:

Kate: Your weight problem (which I'm finding it very weird that in a family full of super skinny people, she's always been obese) ...

It could very well be a medical issue. In the sense of the issue causing obesity, not the issue being the obesity itself. There are plenty out there that cause weight gain.

 

One other random thing that bugged a little - when Rebecca found Jack on the floor in the morning, her line was something akin to "...outside our bedroom door like a Labrador". Door and -dor rhyming? Meh. Plus the language seemed forced/specific. If I were to say that line in real life, it would be either bedroom or door, not both, and just dog, not breed specific. I dunno. It really stuck in my head and annoyed for some reason!

There was something else I meant to comment on, but now that I've taken the time to address quoted things, I'm completely blanking. It will come to me at some point...

At the very least, I was still entertained enough to come back next week. I did really like the nighttime conversation between Beth and William, followed by Randall's deep belly laughs at Beth's bitch line :D

[zumpie]

Oh also----OTHER anachronisms I just realized:

36 was OLD to be a first time dad in 1980. Ditto 32 (Mandy Moore's real age) to be a first time mom. Especially since they had met 8 years earlier.

Rebecca would've been more the name Mandy Moore gave to Kate, because it was a super popular name in the 1970's for kids born in the 1970's as someone born in the late 40's/early 50's, Mandy woud've been named Jane/Susan/Donna/Connie, etc.....

Rebecca (and names like Samantha and Augusta) was viewed in much the same way we'd view something like "Edith", an old lady name....

[potatoradio]

Quote

OMG!!! Are you in my head??? BTW, saw your very complimentary post above and thank you!! But yeah, I grew to quickly despise Parenthood for just that reason. And this show is doing much the same. It's a bunch of people who are jerks but are infinitely somehow pleased with themselves and I'm inexplicably supposed to love them, when I really want to smack them.

I like to be in other people's heads far more than my own sometimes. I like it here. I won't leave the cap off the toothpaste, promise. :)

Totally this unearned sympathy/love/OMG how TOUCHING tone that is zapping my initial interest. At least, with Parenthood, the couples were tested and developed because they were struggling with raising kids with realistic problems - that's what drew me in initially. On this show, the characters are struggling with....well, overgrown and overripe young adult identity boo boos. I can't tell what's motivating them in the present storyline - just that they are having a massive sadz and it's somehow the parents' fault because, darn it, sometimes parenting just isn't easy. Ya don't say!? 

I feel badly for these actors, because they're clearly talented, but talent can only carry so much. 

[mariah23]

21 minutes ago, zumpie said:

Oh also----OTHER anachronisms I just realized:

36 was OLD to be a first time dad in 1980. Ditto 32 (Mandy Moore's real age) to be a first time mom. Especially since they had met 8 years earlier.

Rebecca would've been more the name Mandy Moore gave to Kate, because it was a super popular name in the 1970's for kids born in the 1970's as someone born in the late 40's/early 50's, Mandy woud've been named Jane/Susan/Donna/Connie, etc.....

Rebecca (and names like Samantha and Augusta) was viewed in much the same way we'd view something like "Edith", an old lady name....

My great-aunt's name is Rebecca and she is close to 70.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, Randomosity said:

I didn't read that as age shaming at all. I don't think it was any sort of judgement against Sally Field. I think Kate, as most people would be, was just surprised by a 30-something (or early 40s) guy swooning over a woman nearly 70 years old.

Kate didn't think Sally Field was almost 70 (I pointed out that she is), she thought she was almost 60. Hardly unusual at all that Toby would have had, what he described, as a pretty much life long crush on her. Many teens develop crushes on celebs that they carry into adulthood, especially if the celebs takes care of themselves and age well. Just of the top of my head thinking of celebs who are over 60 and fit that bill -  Pierce Brosnan, Denzel Washington, Richard Gere, Christy Brinkley. Heck, Tom Selleck at 70, Harrison Ford at 72 and Tina Turner at almost 77 are considered still sexy by many. And there are many more - it is not unusual at all. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[zumpie]

  Quote

OMG!!! Are you in my head??? BTW, saw your very complimentary post above and thank you!! But yeah, I grew to quickly despise Parenthood for just that reason. And this show is doing much the same. It's a bunch of people who are jerks but are infinitely somehow pleased with themselves and I'm inexplicably supposed to love them, when I really want to smack them.

I like to be in other people's heads far more than my own sometimes. I like it here. I won't leave the cap off the toothpaste, promise. :)

Totally this unearned sympathy/love/OMG how TOUCHING tone that is zapping my initial interest. At least, with Parenthood, the couples were tested and developed because they were struggling with raising kids with realistic problems - that's what drew me in initially. On this show, the characters are struggling with....well, overgrown and overripe young adult identity boo boos. I can't tell what's motivating them in the present storyline - just that they are having a massive sadz and it's somehow the parents' fault because, darn it, sometimes parenting just isn't easy. Ya don't say!? 

I feel badly for these actors, because they're clearly talented, but talent can only carry so much. 

Hahaha!!!

I just realized in the case of even Randall----his strung out daddy had enough care to leave him at the fire station (versus merely getting high and forgetting altogether, while the baby screamed and died from neglect---and he was adopted by people who loved him dearly. He also, bizarrely for a baby born to an addict mommy who probably received NO prenatal care and (seemingly??? I wasn't paying attention) popped him out at home had zero birth defects or complications and grew up to be a healthy, absurdly personally and professionally successful adult.

Yet he let something consume him that most adoptees make their peace with fairly early---AND even that, seemingly, has a fairly positive outcome. His birth dad is a kindly, albeit broken, old man---who while dying seems to only wish to spend his last days getting to know Randall and his beautiful, loving family.

Really, again, could be much, much, MUCH worse....

[romantic idiot]

I'm sorry but why is an 8 year old on a diet? Get her into soccer or skiing or a dance class or something.