Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[3 is enough]

I do wonder if deep down Jim Bob feels responsible for Josh's actions, although I doubt it.

 If he truly is forcing the other kids to choose between supporting Josh or losing their financial aid and access to siblings that is just reprehensible. It's his fault the kids are so woefully undereducated that they can't get jobs to support themselves.  I get a strong Jim Jones vibe from him.

[merylinkid]

I hope Austin helps Joy get therapy like Jill did.  She has a lot to process.

 

Yeah the family being exposed as less than perfect is going to make the cracks in the family worse.  We may get that tell all after all. 

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I get a strong Jim Jones vibe from him.

At the risk of sounding like a super creep, I feel the urge to defend Jim Jones. LOL At his peak, Jones actually did help with desegregating Indianapolis and contributed a lot socially to his community before he went off the deep end on a power trip. I think Jim Bob aspires to be a Jim Jones but fundamentally lacks the charisma, organizational skills, and speaking ability that allowed Jim Jones to be as influential as he was. There's a reason Jones had thousands of followers and Jim Bob's remit just extends to his family. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

I hope Austin helps Joy get therapy like Jill did.  She has a lot to process.

 

Yeah the family being exposed as less than perfect is going to make the cracks in the family worse.  We may get that tell all after all. 

I think Austin is the anti intellectual type, unfortunately. Thinks he knows better than those elitist therapists, virologists, professors, and lawyers.

[LilJen]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

TFDW…that outfit is just… odd? like, TheMask x Peewee Herman x The Joker?

[CouchTater]

Well, if it is true that multiple adult offspring are on the outs with JB (fingers crossed), I hope they join forces to decompress and debrief as needed, have their own weekly family nights, coordinate sleepovers for the "free grandkids," camp together, etc.  And keep the lines of communication open for those who later seek a JB-free life.

That's my Pollyanna hope for tonight.

[Absolom]

2 minutes ago, LilJen said:

TFDW…that outfit is just… odd? like, TheMask x Peewee Herman x The Joker?

He couldn't have worn a white or light blue shirt and a navy patterned tie?

[SMama]

3 minutes ago, Absolom said:

He couldn't have worn a white or light blue shirt and a navy patterned tie?

That would not be fabulous.

[Sile]

52 minutes ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Dear Lord, that new mug shot. How freaking delusional and entitled do you have to be to smile like that on the day you are convicted of a serious federal crime.  I truly hope Josh gets some help in prison.

Maybe he's almost proud of it, in some twisted way?  Like validating that he was the BMOC and did whatever he wanted.  'And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that pesky router!'.

[cereality]

Do we know where the siblings fall - i.e. in line with Jill/Derick or with JB/Michelle?

I mean Joy & Austin obviously seem anti-JB/Michelle at this point, but I do think Austin is the anti-intellectual type who wouldn't be ok with therapy because "we" don't need that, "we" have God. BUT I do hope this opens the door back up for Jill and Joy to be friendly again - not just occasional social media likes but like Friday night pizza at J&D's house and the kids can play; not suggesting that Jill can be an alternate for real therapy but I do think in a family where they grew up with so many siblings and the sisters basically raised the kids, that connection being strong is important.

But like what about Jessa? I assume bc they live in a JB owned house/income comes from JB, she won't dare go against him? What about Jinger - she's been totally uninvolved here but it's not like she relies on JB for $?

Jana I imagine HAS to go with JB/Michelle - and with JB/Michelle essentially probably broken now by their golden child being in prison, guess she and Laura will raise the kids. I imagine the younger Duggar brothers stand with JB - bc they've been brainwashed over the yrs to believe the family persecution thing and told this was NBD and they weren't around or were babies when their older sisters were molested - so probably Justin and Jason and all the younger kids. Though IDK James seems to have more of a mind of his own and seems to enjoy J&D's company.

What about JD, Joseph, Jeremiah, Jedidiah, Josiah? All were absent from the trial IIRC. JD and Joseph disavowed Josh as an older brother years ago so I imagine they're happy justice was served - but can't say since they are all on JB's payroll either for housing, planes etc.; Josiah probably is in the same boat.  Jer - IDK about him - he may just be praying this doesn't eff up his courtship and his chance to get out though ultimately he's reliant on JB's $ too and Jed - he seems like he believes the JB hype and probably 100% thinks it's his family being persecuted.

It's not like Jill and Derick are rich so they can't do much but I do hope their home becomes a landing pad for any Duggar who sees the light and decides he wants to make his own way/needs an out - as he goes to trade school or pursues some employment that isn't with daddy; I think it'd particularly be useful for the brothers in that 19-24 year old range where they kind of get it way more than the younger kids but are young enough that they can set up a life that isn't totally beholden to daddy.

Edited December 10, 2021 by cereality

[CalicoKitty]

I was surprised, and happy, when I heard about the verdict at 9:00 AM PST this morning on KSFO--a radio station I stream from San Fransisco.  I am finally all caught up on all the posts on this site, and I want to compliment all the posters for their thoughtful posts and great insights.  I really appreciate all the professional and technical information that people have.  I am privileged to be able to a part of a group with such kind, educated and smart people.  (Educated and smart are two different things, in my experience.)

 

[LexieLily]

6 minutes ago, cereality said:

Do we know where the siblings fall - i.e. in line with Jill/Derick or with JB/Michelle?

At this point what are the realistic chances of Jill/Derick taking their little boys and leaving Arkansas?

[mynextmistake]

I have no doubt that many of the Duggars were stunned by Josh’s conviction. While it is funny that JB told the judge he “wasn’t going to allow” evidence of Josh’s perpetration of sexual abuse to be introduced at trial, it’s also kind of chilling and a good example of how these people really think. In Duggar world, Josh and JB are more important than everyone else simply by virtue of being white Christian males. They call the shots. They don’t suffer consequences, they levy them. How dare a jury including women and non-Christians and possibly even people of color sit in judgment of Josh? That’s not how things are supposed to work!

As to whether they actually believe he’s innocent, I don’t know. I think Anna has gotten used to deluding herself in order to survive her marriage, and I think she might be so good at it now that she really believes this is all some kind of persecution. I think JB and Michelle are more realistic about Josh’s true nature than many people think, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew, deep down, that he was capable of doing something like this. I also think it’s telling that so few of Josh’s siblings were at the trial, and that those that were weren’t necessarily there to support him. The fact that the rest of them stayed the hell away makes me think that they have at least entertained the possibility that he’s guilty and are trying to distance themselves. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by mynextmistake

[emmawoodhouse]

17 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

At this point what are the realistic chances of Jill/Derick taking their little boys and leaving Arkansas?

Depends on how many times Derick wants to take the bar. 😂 But I doubt they'll leave. His family is in the area, and they're close.

eta Jed is definitely in support of Smuggar, but he never showed up at the trial. Definitely trying to distance himself. He has AMBITIONS!!! And they can't have the taint of Smuggar following him.

Edited December 10, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[toodywoody]

17 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I have no doubt that many of the Duggars were stunned by Josh’s conviction. While it is funny that JB told the judge he “wasn’t going to allow” evidence of Josh’s perpetration of sexual abuse to be introduced at trial, it’s also kind of chilling and a good example of how these people really think. In Duggar world, Josh and JB are more important than everyone else simply by virtue of being white Christian males. They call the shots. They don’t suffer consequences, they levy them. How dare a jury including women and non-Christians and possibly even POC sit in judgment of Josh? That’s not how things are supposed to work!

As to whether they actually believe he’s innocent, I don’t know. I think Anna has gotten used to deluding herself in order to survive her marriage, and I think she might be so good at it now that she really believes this is all some kind of persecution. I think JB and Michelle are more realistic about Josh’s true nature than many people think, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew, deep down, that he was capable of doing something like this. I also think it’s telling that so few of Josh’s siblings were at the trial, and that those that were weren’t necessarily there to support him. The fact that the rest of them stayed the hell away makes me think that they have at least entertained the possibility that he’s guilty and are trying to distance themselves. 

After watching something on a woman who was raised as FLDS it made me think of the Duggars. Rape and molesting girls occurred all the time and the girls were told to stay sweet and had no say in anything and were considered property. If you tried to leave, they found you and many of the older woman knew these things were happening but would turn a blind eye and often beat the girls. In religions like that, the men can do no wrong and it's all the girls and women's faults if they get beat, raped, whatever, while nothing is done to the boys or men. Therefore with that kind of thinking, I can see where some of the Duggars thought nothing would happen to Josh because their beliefs are so out of whack. 

With the verdict, maybe some will open their eyes that this behavior is wrong and maybe they will start to think for themselves instead of believing in what and how they do.

[emmawoodhouse]

If the kids start thinking for themselves, they're likely to leave the fold, like Jill. Some will stay. Jessa and Jed come to mind. Probably Jeer, as Daddy gifted him 3 planes.

[CalicoKitty]

I wish TLC would produce a program that shows the inner workings of this group.  Someone from the network had to have known what was going on, and they should now be responsible to show the "other side".

What worries me is how much other "stuff" has gone on in this family that has not come to light (yet).

[Zella]

I personally hope we never see another TV show from anyone else in this family again. 

[MissT]

I'm glad this disgusting pug is going to prison.  What he did to his sisters is unforgivable... to me anyway.   I had a friend through school that told me she was sexually abused by her father and brother.   Her mother was aware but turned a blind eye.  Father died in a accident and brother died of drugs.    She never forgave them or her mother.  
 

She went to tons of therapy, got a good job and met a wonderful man, married and had children and an awesome life.    But she says it never goes away.   It lives deep i her soul everyday.   So people can go on and lead fulfilled lives.   she sees these stories and it brings up a lot of bad shit  for her.      She knows she's lucky 

does Anyone think Josh was ever sexually abused as a child ?   I have my suspicions, but it does not make me feel sorry for him.   Not now.  

[CalicoKitty]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I personally hope we never see another TV show from anyone else in this family again. 

I didn't mean this particular family.  I never want to see any of them again, either.  I meant a "tell-all' type program to educate people on the background and real beliefs of the IFB.  Just to show it is not group of God-fearing perfect families.  But I know this will never happen.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, CalicoKitty said:

I didn't mean this particular family.  I never want to see any of them again, either.  I meant a "tell-all' type program to educate people on the background and real beliefs of the IFB.  Just to show it is not group of God-fearing perfect families.  But I know this will never happen.

Ah okay. I gotcha. That would be nice, but yeah I don't see them ever doing that. I think TLC's complicity in broadcasting this family is very shameful, and they don't get enough criticism for it. But I bet the channel is really happy they dumped them when they did. I've wondered if they got cold feet about the Duggars as soon as they got wind that Josh was not considered a plea deal since they waited a while after the arrest before cancelling. 

[iwantcookies]

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I hope Austin helps Joy get therapy like Jill did.  She has a lot to process.

 

Yeah the family being exposed as less than perfect is going to make the cracks in the family worse.  We may get that tell all after all. 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by iwantcookies

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Don’t count on it. Joy said her son will get homeschooled for 30 minutes a day. 

Poor Giddy. Joy is barely literate.

[cmr2014]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

I've always thought a big part of Jim Bob and Michelle standing by Josh is because to admit he was guilty would be to indict what they view as their life's work. In the same way that Anna probably can't admit that she has spent years living with a monster, I don't think they can admit they spent years raising and enabling a monster. 

I mean, it's laughable to us that they see this as their mission, but they spent decades insisting they were the most wholesome and moral family to ever wholesome and that they were role models. I don't think it is in them to admit that they were wrong, so I could see them interpreting any dissent within the family about Josh as a direct slap in the face to them. It would be a well-earned slap in the face, but I think they lack the self-reflective abilities and humility to ever process it that way. 

I would definitely not want to be anywhere near the TTH tonight. I bet it is fucking miserable right now, and I really feel bad for the youngest Duggar kids and the M kids having to endure it. 

I think that this is the big thing for them all right now -- essentially, their entire world has been turned upside down.

JB and J'chelle 100% believed that if they followed all of Jesus' rules -- as interpreted by Gothard -- they'd have the perfect family. This is 30+ years of their lives that they've followed these rigid, ridiculous rules, and it didn't work. They've smirked and preened at the rest of us for years believing that they had the real secrets to God's approval, and now they've been exposed for the awful people we've always thought they were.

Anna has done everything that she was supposed to do according to their rules, and her life is in tatters. Right now, Anna has to look at Josh and realize that he's a monster (which she's probably known for a while). But she also has to deal with the fact that everything her parents told her, and everything Gothard taught her was bs.  She's been meek and subservient, and "joyfully available," and prayed and prayed and prayed -- and here she is.

Jill went through this a few years ago, when she believed that she had done everything according to the rules and ended up with two difficult deliveries, hating missionary work, and seeing her marriage fall apart.

I see this same thing in Joy's post about Job. They have done everything that God expects of them (according to Gothard), so why are they here? Why did Joy suffer through the abuse, forgive her abuser, and then lose her main source of income due to that abuser?

Having a son/brother convicted for a heinous offense has got to be awful, but also seeing that the wall of rigid rules and magical belief that you've very publicly relied on to protect your family is just a bunch of nonsense has got to have them all reeling.

[Cinnabon]

5 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I think that this is the big thing for them all right now -- essentially, their entire world has been turned upside down.

JB and J'chelle 100% believed that if they followed all of Jesus' rules -- as interpreted by Gothard -- they'd have the perfect family. This is 30+ years of their lives that they've followed these rigid, ridiculous rules, and it didn't work. They've smirked and preened at the rest of us for years believing that they had the real secrets to God's approval, and now they've been exposed for the awful people we've always thought they were.

Anna has done everything that she was supposed to do according to their rules, and her life is in tatters. Right now, Anna has to look at Josh and realize that he's a monster (which she's probably known for a while). But she also has to deal with the fact that everything her parents told her, and everything Gothard taught her was bs.  She's been meek and subservient, and "joyfully available," and prayed and prayed and prayed -- and here she is.

Jill went through this a few years ago, when she believed that she had done everything according to the rules and ended up with two difficult deliveries, hating missionary work, and seeing her marriage fall apart.

I see this same thing in Joy's post about Job. They have done everything that God expects of them (according to Gothard), so why are they here? Why did Joy suffer through the abuse, forgive her abuser, and then lose her main source of income due to that abuser?

Having a son/brother convicted for a heinous offense has got to be awful, but also seeing that the wall of rigid rules and magical belief that you've very publicly relied on to protect your family is just a bunch of nonsense has got to have them all reeling.

Joy never lost her income. She continued to live with JB and Michelle after the first show ended, and later married Austin. Austin was never dependent on JB, although they did accept a house.

[HahYallDoin]

13 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Now that he knows everyone knows he wears a wig...

Does he really?! I’ve been off of here for a little while and I have sooo much to read and catch up on 😊 

[GeeGolly]

Dipping toe in water, realizing its cold - jumping in anyways.

I know many see Derick as this hero that stood up to JB, but I haven't got there yet, and maybe I never will. I can't unsee things like him returning from "serving God and others" as a missionary in CA and in almost the same breathe, laughing as he and is baby son "built a wall" together. I can't unread all the self-serving lies and twisted posts about the break-up with TLC/JB. I can't forget he condemned the BSA for accepting the LGBTQ+ community. And I can't forget the ongoing hate posts about then teenage Jazz, and Nate and Jerimiah. Maybe all the Duggars have the same views as Derick, but I don't see his posts as brave and standing up for what he believes in, I see them as hate filled and disrespectful. And while I think it was brave to go after JB for money, I don't see that as standing up to JB in the heroic sense, I see it as a dispute over money and nothing else.

I do give Jill tons of kudos for their statement and think its very brave for her. But with Derick in the picture, I can't help but wonder if the part about lies was self-serving for him, in addition to being true. I also don't see Derick as this rock of support for Jill, any more so than can be imagined about the other husbands.

I'm a big believer in removing toxic folks from one's life, including family. But I haven't seen anyone do that yet. I think Josh's conviction is a great opportunity for all of the adult kids to see a broader and clearer picture of what's been going on all these years, and if any of them do, I will see that as taking a pretty heroic step.

[absnow54]

8 hours ago, cereality said:

It's not like Jill and Derick are rich so they can't do much but I do hope their home becomes a landing pad for any Duggar who sees the light and decides he wants to make his own way/needs an out - as he goes to trade school or pursues some employment that isn't with daddy; I think it'd particularly be useful for the brothers in that 19-24 year old range where they kind of get it way more than the younger kids but are young enough that they can set up a life that isn't totally beholden to daddy.

Derrick can help all the Duggar kids sue Jim Bob for their shares of the TLC pie. They’ve been exploited their entire lives, and are trapped under JBs thumb in order to access the money they helped him make. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by absnow54

[libgirl2]

9 hours ago, Zella said:

At the risk of sounding like a super creep, I feel the urge to defend Jim Jones. LOL At his peak, Jones actually did help with desegregating Indianapolis and contributed a lot socially to his community before he went off the deep end on a power trip. I think Jim Bob aspires to be a Jim Jones but fundamentally lacks the charisma, organizational skills, and speaking ability that allowed Jim Jones to be as influential as he was. There's a reason Jones had thousands of followers and Jim Bob's remit just extends to his family. 

I think it was his escalating drug use and descent into madness and a sense  of extreme self importance but he did help people. Many times cults do at the start 

9 hours ago, LilJen said:

TFDW…that outfit is just… odd? like, TheMask x Peewee Herman x The Joker?

He does look fabulous 

[MMEButterfly]

9 hours ago, Zella said:

At the risk of sounding like a super creep, I feel the urge to defend Jim Jones. LOL At his peak, Jones actually did help with desegregating Indianapolis and contributed a lot socially to his community before he went off the deep end on a power trip. I think Jim Bob aspires to be a Jim Jones but fundamentally lacks the charisma, organizational skills, and speaking ability that allowed Jim Jones to be as influential as he was. There's a reason Jones had thousands of followers and Jim Bob's remit just extends to his family. 

Being from eastern Indiana, I got to know a few people who early on followed Jim Jones. The ideals were actually excellent--serving the poor, the imprisoned, the refugee. Very different from the Jim Bob values. 

[TrixieTrue]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Now that we're here, I'm thinking back on Laura fighting with Amy on IG and going to court a couple of days. It makes me wonder what was actually being said at the TTH. Laura is a family friend, or maybe more like a friend that has become family, but she was one of the lucky few who could have kept her head down. Why didn't she?

 

I looked at Amy's insta and there were too many comments to go through and find Laura's comments. Can anyone summarize or point me toward them? 

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, TrixieTrue said:

I looked at Amy's insta and there were too many comments to go through and find Laura's comments. Can anyone summarize or point me toward them? 

I don't know if Laura deleted any other comments, but this is what's been shown here.

[TrixieTrue]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know if Laura deleted any other comments, but this is what's been shown here.

Thank you! I forgot that Laurie's ig handle didn't include her first name. 

[Westiepeach]

Did I miss it, or do we know the reason he was smiling in his latest mug shot?

[ginger90]

An article I came across:

 

https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/2021/12/my-take-on-josh-duggars-guilty-verdict-amnon-and-tamar-replayed/

[Minivanessa]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm a big believer in removing toxic folks from one's life, including family. But I haven't seen anyone do that yet. I think Josh's conviction is a great opportunity for all of the adult kids to see a broader and clearer picture of what's been going on all these years, and if any of them do, I will see that as taking a pretty heroic step.

I agree, it's a great opportunity for that, but I would be surprised if that happens to any of them - certainly in the short term. As you said, that would be a heroic stop. (The only known exception is Jill. It's hard to read Jinger who's geographically removed from the TTH and def has Jeremy as a headship. Joy's another hard read. Austin was clearly angry/upset at the trial, and Joy was there for a day or two of it, looking troubled in photos outside the building. And she's posted about Job and troubles on SM.)

But as to the rest of the Duggs, I think for now they are all just doubling down on the "this is Satan testing our faith" and "we're being persecuted for being such correct Christians" line of thought. If one can believe stuff posted by the infamous Pickles on FB, JB is taking a hard line with his kids, demanding they all support Josh or they'll be cut off without a cent. And JB is pushing the narrative, also inside his family, that Josh is going to be like the apostle Paul while in prison. Of course, Paul wasn't imprisoned for CSAM, but for preaching the gospel. (This stuff from Pickles was discussed upthread; I don't know how reliable it is but I do believe that JB is exercising all his power over his family to keep them marching in lockstep in support of Josh right now.) 

[lascuba]

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Now that we're here, I'm thinking back on Laura fighting with Amy on IG and going to court a couple of days. It makes me wonder what was actually being said at the TTH. Laura is a family friend, or maybe more like a friend that has become family, but she was one of the lucky few who could have kept her head down. Why didn't she?

 

The zeal of the convert? My assumption has always been that Laura moved into the TTH because she needed a new "family" since hers isn't as religious as she is. So she's seeing this godly family she loves so much that she-a grown ass woman-uprooted her life for, suffering over what the evil media and justice system is doing to one of their own. And a relative has the nerve to say mean things about them. The family can't speak out publicly because the media is focused on them, but she feels she can.

[Madtown]

 

[RandomX]

I respect this viewpoint and admit that I cannot unsee the interpretive dance-based gospel outreach from several years ago — so I feel your pain! (Plus the joking about running over a cat with his sled)

I’ve been contemplating whether this an outlier example of estrangement initially created by the more petty concerns that you raise that ended up, by loosening the emotional and spiritual hold of the cult, propelling Derek and Jill to a place where true growth could occur. 

Change is difficult, messy, and often not linear. But when I track my own memories of the examples you cite and where the couple is now, I think I’ve seen some true growth, or at least, a growing self-awareness that was previously absent.

I also thought the reference to the trial being akin to a funeral was starkly honest and very sad. Of course one thinks of the loss of the relationships with her brother and her family, and I also can’t help but think Jill is also mourning the death of the childhood she thought she had — and what a difficult, emotionally fraught process that must be. 

They still have so many upcoming challenges (passing the bar, employment, Jill growing into her own skin as a person beyond mother and wife, and working through this highly public Duggar fall from grace). They may never live lives that match my own personal values — but I credit them for hopefully providing their children space to develop as individuals vs cult members. I am rooting for them!

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Dipping toe in water, realizing its cold - jumping in anyways.

I know many see Derick as this hero that stood up to JB, but I haven't got there yet, and maybe I never will. I can't unsee things like him returning from "serving God and others" as a missionary in CA and in almost the same breathe, laughing as he and is baby son "built a wall" together. I can't unread all the self-serving lies and twisted posts about the break-up with TLC/JB. I can't forget he condemned the BSA for accepting the LGBTQ+ community. And I can't forget the ongoing hate posts about then teenage Jazz, and Nate and Jerimiah. Maybe all the Duggars have the same views as Derick, but I don't see his posts as brave and standing up for what he believes in, I see them as hate filled and disrespectful. And while I think it was brave to go after JB for money, I don't see that as standing up to JB in the heroic sense, I see it as a dispute over money and nothing else.

I do give Jill tons of kudos for their statement and think its very brave for her. But with Derick in the picture, I can't help but wonder if the part about lies was self-serving for him, in addition to being true. I also don't see Derick as this rock of support for Jill, any more so than can be imagined about the other husbands.

I'm a big believer in removing toxic folks from one's life, including family. But I haven't seen anyone do that yet. I think Josh's conviction is a great opportunity for all of the adult kids to see a broader and clearer picture of what's been going on all these years, and if any of them do, I will see that as taking a pretty heroic step.

 

 

[galaxygirl76]

14 hours ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

I wonder how many of his fellow inmates will be starstruck by the sight of him....

(i'll see myself out now)

Just as starstruck as they were when Jared from Subway moved in.

13 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I think they all wanted out of there pretty fast and did NOT want to talk to reporters. When they rounded one corner before getting to the stairs, the only person who looked at the camera was, you guessed it, Hilaria. 

I'm sure that if they didn't want the attention they could have taken another exit.

13 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

Smuggar always said that he wanted to be a lawyer now here is his chance. 

He may get to do now what his parents have denied him, getting a degree.

[mimionthebeach]

14 hours ago, YupItsMe said:

Maybe. Or maybe she was just trying to keep her knees from buckling. 

This. I doubt she was capable of any thought at that time. She's in shock, whether we sympathize with her or not. The only thing going through her mind is "get me out of here". She's dealing with a lot and she'll only be able to maintain a mask of stoicism for so long. Beyond that, she may not be able to form any rational thoughts at all. That will come later. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Westiepeach said:

Did I miss it, or do we know the reason he was smiling in his latest mug shot?

I don't think we will ever really know the reason. He may have been purposely trying to avoid the smug look he had in his previous mug shot?

[Kbo]

Here’s an interesting article with different details from inside the courtroom:

https://people.com/tv/what-it-was-like-in-court-when-josh-duggar-verdict-was-read/?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-share-article&utm_content=20211210

[RainbowBrite]

4 minutes ago, deaja said:

I don't think we will ever really know the reason. He may have been purposely trying to avoid the smug look he had in his previous mug shot?

Not to presume to understand or relate to Josh in ANY WAY, but I smile when I am uncomfortable. That means I often smile at inappropriate times...there is a chance I would smile in a mug shot although I would be extremely distraught if ever arrested. 

[mom2two]

Its interesting that we have not heard much from oldest dugger married sons.   JD, Josiah , and Joseph have been awfully quiet.  And lets go back to Lauren scrubbing their instagram. JD seemed to despise his older brother.  How much does he rely on JB for $?    Jed! is definately onboard with JB, but being careful  and Jer is trying to keep his future bride.    

[Panopticon]

1 minute ago, RainbowBrite said:

Not to presume to understand or relate to Josh in ANY WAY, but I smile when I am uncomfortable. That means I often smile at inappropriate times...there is a chance I would smile in a mug shot although I would be extremely distraught if ever arrested. 

I was thinking along those lines too. I've never had to pose for a mug shot, but I have posed for passport photos, driver's license photos, work ID photos, etc. Often the photographer explicitly says "don't smile" because the ID is supposed to show a relaxed/natural face. But I smile anyway-- not to make a statement or to annoy the photographer, but because it's an instinctive reaction when someone shoves a camera in my face. And unlike Josh, I've never been part of a television show or a public-facing family where I smiled on cue day in and day out.

(Josh is still a disgusting sex pest even if the smile happens not to mean anything.)

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, mom2two said:

Its interesting that we have not heard much from oldest dugger married sons.   JD, Josiah , and Joseph have been awfully quiet.  And lets go back to Lauren scrubbing their instagram. JD seemed to despise his older brother.  How much does he rely on JB for $?    Jed! is definately onboard with JB, but being careful  and Jer is trying to keep his future bride.    

I believe JD despises Josh. I could tell the older kids could not stand him AT ALL when the very first specials come out. Joe seems like a decent man who also would want to distance himself from Josh. He always looked up to JD as a role model. Josiah actually has a sensitivity to him, and I could see him having the most sympathy for the victims, and then Anna/the M-kids.

But I would not be surprised if they do not say anything publicly. 

[js9548]

Have any of the jurors given any statements yet? 

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Dipping toe in water, realizing its cold - jumping in anyways.

I know many see Derick as this hero that stood up to JB, but I haven't got there yet, and maybe I never will. I can't unsee things like him returning from "serving God and others" as a missionary in CA and in almost the same breathe, laughing as he and is baby son "built a wall" together. I can't unread all the self-serving lies and twisted posts about the break-up with TLC/JB. I can't forget he condemned the BSA for accepting the LGBTQ+ community. And I can't forget the ongoing hate posts about then teenage Jazz, and Nate and Jerimiah. Maybe all the Duggars have the same views as Derick, but I don't see his posts as brave and standing up for what he believes in, I see them as hate filled and disrespectful. And while I think it was brave to go after JB for money, I don't see that as standing up to JB in the heroic sense, I see it as a dispute over money and nothing else.

I do give Jill tons of kudos for their statement and think its very brave for her. But with Derick in the picture, I can't help but wonder if the part about lies was self-serving for him, in addition to being true. I also don't see Derick as this rock of support for Jill, any more so than can be imagined about the other husbands.

I'm a big believer in removing toxic folks from one's life, including family. But I haven't seen anyone do that yet. I think Josh's conviction is a great opportunity for all of the adult kids to see a broader and clearer picture of what's been going on all these years, and if any of them do, I will see that as taking a pretty heroic step.

You already know I agree completely. There's a lot that both Derick and Jill have to state explicitly and publicly for me to believe that they've changed in any meaningful way. And no, I don't think thinking going from IBLP to fundie lite is at all meaningful.

[Minivanessa]

28 minutes ago, Kbo said:

Here’s an interesting article with different details from inside the courtroom:

https://people.com/tv/what-it-was-like-in-court-when-josh-duggar-verdict-was-read/?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email-share-article&utm_content=20211210

It is interesting. I'm sure that Hilaria Spivey is devastated that she wasn't named in this article. She was the only other woman besides Anna in the small Duggar family contingent seen at the courthouse yesterday, AFAIK. So I assume she's the unnamed woman in this sentence:

Quote

Anna sat in the front row but did not react. She was shortly after seen being comforted by the woman seated next to her as Jim Bob, to her right, wrapped an arm around one of his sons as well.

Poor Hilaria. So thirsty, and so thwarted in her climb to fame.