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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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hathorlive

hathorlive

On 8/30/2021 at 5:26 PM, quarks said:

I don't know if anyone other than Anna and possibly JB and Michelle will show up to "support" Josh. To support Anna, JB and Michelle, maybe, but not Josh.  I mean, here he is, facing federal trial, and there most of the adult Duggarlings are, cheerfully telling everyone on Instagram/YouTube just how great life is right now, what with Dodgers games and amateur softball and Vegas shopping and cute babies and six month anniversaries and whatever, with an obvious and distinct lack of "pray for us in this difficult time." 

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

57 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

 Josh and Jim Bob are both dumb enough to think this will work. It worked for many, many years in the court of public opinion. 

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SMama

SMama

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

Was the suspect convicted?

Future Cat Lady

Future Cat Lady

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

As if going to church makes you a good person…

I totally agree that the lawyers will want the family to be present to make a good impression. What will be interesting is to see who will not show up.

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quarks

quarks

3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

One of the last CP trials I had, the suspect was one of 9 kids.  The court was filled with his family, including young nieces and nephews.  His minister showed up and testified about what a good Christian he was, and how often he went to church.  So, yes, there will be pressure on the kidadults to show up and support him.

I guess my question is, were those family members previously living it up on Instagram/elsewhere, or supporting the suspect?

I think it's quite possible that JB and Michelle may be able to drag at least some of the kids still living in the main house along to the trial. And Anna may be able to bring some or all of her kids along. And it's possible that one or two of the adult Duggarlings might show up to support their parents or Anna - or, in the case of Jill, at least, show up to see justice done. And it's also quite possible that JB and Michelle may use all of the powers at their command (financial pressure and guilt trips) to get as many of the adult Duggarlings to show up as they can.

But as of right now, at least, the adult Duggarlings with social media accounts do not appear to supporting Josh at all. Quite the opposite. 

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SMama

SMama

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

He was sentenced to 13 years in Federal court.  And as we've discussed previously, that's a pretty good sentence.  They always want to show the court/jury that a suspect has family support, so they can get back on the righteous path.  Ahem.

Hopefully there’s hope the pervert will pay. A while back Jill posted about justice taking time but it would happen not on our time. I thought she was referring to the pervert. 

I think it’s abhorrent to bring minors to that type of trial, actually, any trial. I truly hope it’s not permitted and that Anna is not that stupid. But we know she is.

Pure speculation, I wonder who among the kidults is likely to (begrudgingly) show to support the pervert. 

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Absolom

Absolom

8 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

Remember that there is no way in hell that Smuggar will accept a plea deal.  He is the golden child who thinks he is made out of Teflon nothing will stick to him because he didn't do anything wrong. 

If he refuses a plea deal, may he get a few more years on his sentence by going to trial.  I'm fine with that.

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Absolom

Absolom

Quote

 TLC cut all ties with the Duggars and pulled the plug on Counting On — fracturing the unity of the once tight-knit family and leaving their future uncertain.

That's giving TLC a lot of credit.  I would have thought Josh's actions would have been more fracturing.  If losing the show is what it took for most of the Duggars to see the light, that's fine, too, though.  

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

(edited)
33 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Wow, the tables certainly have turned!!

Josh is probably already calling his siblings, wanting their thanks and congratulations for getting them a People cover just like the old days.

Interesting that People, which always played up the folksy, close-knit family BS the Duggars were serving while ignoring multiple huge red flags in their lifestyle, has now come full circle.

Of course, People also refers to both of the Duggars' reality series as 'wildly successful' and claims that Josh is confident he won't be charged, even though he's already been charged and the trial is coming up.  Not exactly the most accurate reporting ever.

The 'quotes' from the family source are definitely Amy-type quotes.  I don't think Derick would be interested in discussing anything but his own unhappiness as it pertains to the family.

Edited by Rootbeer
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beckie

beckie

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

That's giving TLC a lot of credit.  I would have thought Josh's actions would have been more fracturing.  If losing the show is what it took for most of the Duggars to see the light, that's fine, too, though.  

If that's all it took to "fracture" them, then they've probably been faking for years just for the tv show.

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Tikichick

Tikichick

17 hours ago, Absolom said:

It will be Josh's decision, but if JB cuts off the money, Josh might end up going to trial with a different legal team or changing his mind.

Given the complexity of these types of cases a significant amount of money was likely paid upfront with contractual agreement in place.   Courts are sticky about attorney withdrawals as cases are coming down to the wire for good reason -- left to their own whims defendants will use this as a stalling tactic.   Attorneys are also generally careful about putting measures in place to secure their revenue stream.    

It's very likely JB has already bid a sad farewell to a significant amount of money for lawyers, investigators and experts.   All of these professionals are aware they're dealing with people who stand accused as criminal defendants.   They may be given the protection in court of being seen as innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't extend to forcing the defense team to do their job and simply hope they'll get paid.

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Tikichick

Tikichick

17 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I feel I know so little about Josh that I have absolutely no idea whether he is now or has ever been a person who would do that or whether he's a person who's delusional, basing his decisions on some stupid image that's inside his own head. 

 

I don't know Josh, but I do know that predators tend to develop keen instincts over time in service of satisfying their drive while protecting their own hides at all costs   It seems his lead attorney is well-versed in these types of cases, so would no doubt be very familiar in dealing with these types of personalities.   I would guess he's spoken very plainly to Josh and broken things down for him and talked to him on a level Josh has never experienced before.  I can't see how Josh could avoid the realization he's swum out far beyond the home church, homeschool and JB Duggar, Inc boundaries and probably flailing desperately for any glimmer of self preservation.

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Absolom

Absolom

4 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

It seems his lead attorney is well-versed in these types of cases, so would no doubt be very familiar in dealing with these types of personalities.   I would guess he's spoken very plainly to Josh and broken things down for him and talked to him on a level Josh has never experienced before.

I expect so.  It would have been wonderful to have seen Josh's reaction to real world straight talk about what he's done and the likely consequences.  

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Zella

Zella

34 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

claims that Josh is confident he won't be charged, even though he's already been charged and the trial is coming up.  Not exactly the most accurate reporting ever.

I was coming here to comment on that. Even if that's an error the original source made, which I could see because none of these people are the sharpest knives in the drawer, the writer/editors should've been clued in enough to do an editorial note, ala Arrested Development Ron Howard. 

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

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(edited)
29 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Are there any guesstimates as to how much Boob has dished out so far for Josh's defense?

 

Not a lawyer, but, the defense firm representing Josh is one of the top firms in their region.  Lawyers who defend major criminal cases in the federal courts do not come cheap.  As some of the legal specialists were telling us when the case was first filed; Josh is going to need defense experts for trial who are experts in electronic media, cell phone data, etc who are going to spend hours and hours poring over the electronic trail that lead to the charges.  They are going to bill for that and, then, if it goes to trial, they are going to bill to testify.  Each expert is going to charge minimum several hundred bucks an hour for their time and, if they are retained to witness at trial; they will have a contract that will guarantee a substantial percentage of their usual fee even if the case doesn't go to trial  or they are not called upon to testify.  These are people with very unusual skills whose time is very much in demand.  You want them available for your trial, you are going to have to guarantee they'll be paid or they won't clear their schedule.

I think its a safe bet that over 6 figures in fees have already been amassed and paid and, depending on what happens in court, whether Josh is convicted and, if so, if there is an appeal; the sky is really the limit here.

Edited by Rootbeer
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Zella

Zella

10 minutes ago, Fosca said:

I hope Amy got paid well for that article; it might be how she can afford to move her "business".

I actually doubt she got paid for it, though I could be wrong. I think she gets some sort of weird satisfaction/affirmation as being treated as more important than she really is to the family by media whenever she leaks stuff. 

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

31 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Is her NDA still in effect?

I don't think anyone here knows for sure.  She has been pretty obtuse about it; not sure if it was even clear if it was only for things pertaining to the show or everything about JB and his brood.  I would think she'd be more careful about spilling the beans to People if she was really worried about violating the NDA though.  The article itself didn't contain anything that wasn't available all over the web, so, even if she did talk, she didn't give anything new and most of what was posted was pure speculation anyway with multiple points that were provably false.

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scriggle

scriggle

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Are there any guesstimates as to how much Boob has dished out so far for Josh's defense?

 

A whole helluva lot.

I recently had some standard legal documents (will, power of attorney, etc.) drawn up. It cost over $1000, billed at $275/hr. And that's just a local lawyer in my town in MA.

I imagine the firm they hired is charging at least twice that as an hourly rate.

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jennblevins

jennblevins

2 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I do think it’s interesting that no one in the family has made any public announcement that Josh is innocent. That could be on advice of a public relations advisor, but I think if they really wanted to say something, they would. 

Honestly, I doubt any of them really care whether he’s legally innocent — even if his fingers clicked the button (or typed the text) that downloaded the CSA, the devil made him do it, so his soul is innocent regardless. (Excuse me while I go throw up.)

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Tikichick

Tikichick

2 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I do think it’s interesting that no one in the family has made any public announcement that Josh is innocent. That could be on advice of a public relations advisor, but I think if they really wanted to say something, they would. 

No doubt the legal team put out instructions that any comments about the case will be issued solely by them.  That's common in many cases that get any kind of media coverage, let alone one with guaranteed media coverage by virtue of a prior public profile.

If it comes down to it post conviction or post conviction via plea, any potential of a future TV deal might require public acknowledgement of Josh's guilt by the family members involved in the project.   That's easier to do if you haven't opened your mouth and asserted belief in his innocence previously.   That information may have been given to the family through network connections, production company sources, legal connections, PR sources, etc.

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Absolom

Absolom

2 hours ago, scriggle said:

I recently had some standard legal documents (will, power of attorney, etc.) drawn up. It cost over $1000, billed at $275/hr. And that's just a local lawyer in my town in MA.

My daughter is billed at $650 an hour if that helps at all.  The most expensive case she has worked the legal fees were over $2M.  She doesn't normally do criminal defense, but I wouldn't be surprised at $200,000 or even more for Josh's case.  That's a pure gut guess.  I have zero experience with his kind of case.  

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sue450

sue450

(edited)
On 8/1/2021 at 10:05 AM, zenme said:

Omg. I don’t realize they made the girls stand before the congregation as well. Way to victim-blame. That’s completely traumatizing. Those poor kids. Wait! What in the heck did 5 year old Joy do to entice him??

    they are taught that  the man has NO CONTROL and if something happens it is the females fault no matter how young the age is

 

not only that but josh finally gave in and  admitted he did it and begged forgiveness only after they threatened to shave a girl/womans head  instead of his head (  women in that cult  it is gothards rule women must have long hair for their husbands it is their crowning glory..if they had shaved a womans head it would have been very traumatic for her  and  every where she would go people would see it 

On 8/5/2021 at 2:14 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I remember that. I thought he was a little shit for a long while, (including when he had Anna carry their luggage ON THE HONEYMOON) but that took the cake. She was in labor with their FIRST child and his lazy ass was sleeping. 

he made anna carry the bags into the place they stayed for the honeymoon....and at 1 point she was on  trip VERY PREGNANT (he should have been kind and had her stay home)   she was walking up steep steps to go into the plane and he didn't even hold her hand to help her  up make sure she diddn't slip or trip

Edited by sue450
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sue450

sue450

(edited)
On 8/9/2021 at 4:14 PM, Nysha said:

I don't think the victims were ever threatened with getting their heads shaved. I think Josh had to ask forgiveness at church for an unspecified sin against his sisters and they were required to forgive him, plus he had his head shaved and was sent away to dig a pond. 

this is from a witness  https://popculture.com/reality-tv/news/josh-duggar-allegedly-forced-shave-head-family-church-molestation-scandal/

Per the church member's account, Josh didn't want his head shaved. He reportedly said, "I really don't want to do that." ( from other things I read he was standing up there a long time and was crying) Church members allegedly presented Josh with an ultimatum. Eventually, he decided to have his head shaved. The source told Radar Online elders threatened Josh, telling him that if he didn't buzz of his hair, one of his victims would have to.

"To punish him into getting [his head shaved], they threatened her," the source said.

   I think he tired of standing up there and crying finally gave in to just get it over with and be done

 

Edited by sue450
added paragraph
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sue450

sue450

(edited)
On 8/10/2021 at 1:44 PM, Albanyguy said:

Austin seems stiff-necked and self-righteous, and I think he prides himself on being a hard-working man who lives up to his responsibilities. I suspect he's always had a great deal of contempt for Josh, not just for his sinfulness, but because Josh was a slug who sat around on his lazy ass all day.

austens family had a reality show (crazy8s  CORRECTED me austin and family were on A show they did not have their own show) at some point, the thing that stood out was that austen was NOT allowed to have a door on his bedroom (no privacy)    and a few years ago his parents had  mr Pearl as one of the speakers at their camp (mr pearl wrote that horrific book called "how to train up a child") where starting when the baby is about 7 months old  you  put them on a blanket and entice them with a toy placed off the blanket... when they try to crawl off to get it you hit them with pvc pipe (several children died from parents using the horrific abuse from this book)

Edited by sue450
fixed faxual error
MsJamieDornan

MsJamieDornan

4 hours ago, jennblevins said:

Honestly, I doubt any of them really care whether he’s legally innocent — even if his fingers clicked the button (or typed the text) that downloaded the CSA, the devil made him do it, so his soul is innocent regardless. (Excuse me while I go throw up.)

I agree. They will have an excuse for everything.

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