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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Natalie68

Natalie68

14 hours ago, Barb23 said:

Wouldn't it be something if the raid involves the limos they showed in one of the earlier episodes of this season?  The ones they drove home to Arkansas from (I think) the DC area. 

Years ago, the small accounting firm my sister works for did the books for a small car lot business. The owner ended up in the federal Big House for a couple of years for odometer tampering.   If Smuggs & JB could be so lucky.  Could you imagine those two going  up against the Joe Giudice type of guys in the slammer?  Well at least the Kellers can visit them as part of their ministry.  

This reminded me of a place here in Santa Barbara that also was closed and the owners were sentenced to around 10 years in prison.  They had embezzled.  Official charges were grand theft and tax evasion.  It was a big deal.  My husbands boss was friends with the owner and had actually warned someone to come get their car they were going to have this company sell (did consignment of REALLY fancy cars such as Porsche, Ferarri, etc) because otherwise it would be impounded as part of the raid.  Not sure how they had this advanced knowledge.

The Taylors were accused of conspiring to commit grand theft, and the investigation showed they defrauded customers and filed false tax forms for seven years, according to the felony criminal complaint.

https://www.noozhawk.com/article/062212_montecito_motors_owners_sentenced_to_prison

They had to pay a shit ton of restitution (although the thought was it would never be paid).  PLEASE LET IT BE SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!!!  I can see them doing this for sure.  They have a lot of like minded repubs in their pocket so I am sure they think they are untouchable.  🤞

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Natalie68

Natalie68

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

If this is about money or consumer fraud or unpaid taxes or anything like that, it may not be only about Josh and it's possible he may even be a somewhat minor player.

My guess is that Josh "owns" that car lot as much as Jed "owns" "his" car lot -- or Jana "owns" whatever "business" or "buildings" she supposedly owns. Etc. 

My sense has always been that all the money, all the buildings, all the businesses are Jim Bob's, all the power and all the decisions involving any of those things are Jim Bob's and only Jim Bob's.

And the kids' names are just slapped onto various things partly to make it seem as if they are independent adults to some degree since they figure that would play better with neighbors, TeeVee viewers, voters, etc.....and mostly to serve as a legal smoke screen in various ways for the many "creative activities" Jim Bob engages in, moneywise. 

Maybe the LLC's are a way to move the money around and make it so they cannot seize it?  I am pulling this out of the air.  I have no idea how to criminal.

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

2 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Maybe the LLC's are a way to move the money around and make it so they cannot seize it?  I am pulling this out of the air.  I have no idea how to criminal.

I’m hoping our legal experts will weigh in, but I think LLCs limit civil liability but not criminal liability.

From LegalZoom:

“If the LLC acts as a “veil” protecting the LLC’s owners from the business’s liabilities, a court may “pierce the veil” and allow an owner to be named as a party to a lawsuit in certain circumstances. The court will pierce the veil when the LLC is being used to do something illegal or if there is no real distinction between the owners and the LLC. So if an owner commits fraud while acting as an officer for the LLC and then seeks to use the liability shield to protect himself from being personally liable, a court will generally not permit that. This issue also arises if the owner interacts with someone on behalf of the LLC but does not make that clear to the third party; if the third party brings suit related to that interaction, the owner can be named as a defendant.”

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

I'm no expert on this area of law, but yes, as @Oldernowiser said, the legal ways to limit civil liability don't work against criminal liability. Especially when it comes to restitution orders or the government seizing ill-gotten gains. They'll mow right through those paper edifices and get right down to where the assets came from, who controlled/controls them, etc. Not saying it's all a slam dunk but I'm sure there have been many crooks who thought they'd stashed the goods safely but found them seized by the government anyway. 

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Ijustwantsomechips

Ijustwantsomechips

15 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I can't think of the name right now of that sovereign-citizen super-Christian tax evader that Boob went to meet when the guy got out of prison a few years back -- and happily escorted him back to his home. His shtick, of course, was telling Christians that they shouldn't have to pay taxes and devising schemes and coaching them to help them evade......

Seems too much to hope that one such Duggar scheme finally caught up with them....but I'd be so happy if it did...

Okay -- Kent Hovind --

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2015/07/11/raw-story-notices-when-kent-hovind-seen-with-jim-bob-duggar/#639ed47c6595

So I guess you should just forget all that jazz about rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s and rendering to God what is God’s huh?  
 

The more you know 🌈 

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Tikichick

Tikichick

56 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Luckily, however, they seem to think they do....😈

Maybe it fits under their philosophy of see one, do one.  Widen up the umbrella and it very well could be that it covers plumbing, electrical, mechanical, midwifery, criminal acts and lawyering too.  They may well feel the establishment of the LLCs creates an impermeable wall sufficient to ward off taxes and legal requirements.

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crazy8s

crazy8s

All the Duggar LLC's are surely due to the new tax laws.

LLC's are a way to pay less tax. Property and money can be moved to the younger duggars through a LLC and then taxed at their tax level. since none of them have any income it would be much less in tax than if it was all in Boob's name or duggar enterprises, etc

https://www.uschamber.com/co/run/finance/tax-law-reform-business-entity

Changes for pass-through entities

Sole proprietorships, S corporations, limited liability companies (LLCs) and partnerships are categorized as pass-through entities because, as the name suggests, profits generated by these entities are allocated directly to the businesses owners, whereupon those profits are taxed as part of the owners’ income tax returns.'

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/one-way-to-play-the-new-tax-law-start-an-llc.html

'One of the most notable provisions in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is a 20 percent deduction for qualified business income from so-called pass-through entities, including S corporations and limited liability companies.

Your taxable income must be below $157,500 if you’re single or $315,000 if married and filing jointly, in order to qualify for the full deduction.

Beyond those income caps, however, the law places limits on who can take the break. For instance, entrepreneurs with “service businesses” — including doctors and lawyers — may not be able to grab the deduction if their income is too high.

That’s where accountants and entrepreneurs are getting creative, finding ways to help businesses maximize this tax break.'

"Here’s an example from Gruda: A married chiropractor owns his own practice and has more than $315,000 in taxable income. He can’t take the 20 percent deduction from his practice because it’s a service business and he exceeds the income threshold.

In order to capture the tax break, the chiropractor starts an LLC, and contributes the building where he runs his business to it.

The chiropractor then pays $300,000 a year in rent to the LLC — and this rent becomes qualified business income on which he can potentially take the 20 percent deduction. This deduction is subject to additional thresholds and limits.

Though income from the chiropractic practice won’t qualify for the tax break, the rental income from the second LLC does.

“We are converting service business income that would not qualify for the deduction into income that would qualify, by spinning out the business and building,” "

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

27 minutes ago, Zella said:

Bahahaha I love you for posting that! It's what I have been thinking of every time they have posted anything since the raid rumors popped up over the weekend. 

I honestly thought I was going to find a gif of Rowan Atkinson for this theme, I completely forgot about Frank Dreben.

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libgirl2

libgirl2

34 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She willfully turns a blind eye, that's for sure.

But to keep popping out babies? Ugh. Its one thing to not believe in divorce its another to go on as if nothing has ever happened. He isn't a king who needs royal heirs to inherit a throne, she doesn't need to keep having babies. My aunt and her husband remained married for about 50+ years despite being separated (and living in two different countries for over half of that. Staunch Catholics, you didn't divorce but nothing was going to force you to live together. 

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Haha Mr. Bean makes so many faces that one could turn on the Duggars.

giphy.gif

Hee.  My daughter called him Mister Beany Baby.

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

But to keep popping out babies? Ugh. Its one thing to not believe in divorce its another to go on as if nothing has ever happened. He isn't a king who needs royal heirs to inherit a throne, she doesn't need to keep having babies. My aunt and her husband remained married for about 50+ years despite being separated (and living in two different countries for over half of that. Staunch Catholics, you didn't divorce but nothing was going to force you to live together. 

Very true.  Living apart doesn't require a divorce.

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

By how would Anna support herself and six kids living apart from Smuggar? She certainly wouldn't be a beneficiary of the Duggars teat.

Right.  She would have to take her brother up on his offer.  With that many kids, she's stuck.  Turd's Ma & Pa would cut her off without any problem, I'm sure.

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libgirl2

libgirl2

(edited)
8 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Right.  She would have to take her brother up on his offer.  With that many kids, she's stuck.  Turd's Ma & Pa would cut her off without any problem, I'm sure.

There are plenty of women who managed to climb out of situations like that. Problem is she has never seen the real world. It also doesn't help that she has drank the kool-aid, she would fear for her mortal soul if she even thought to leave. 

Edited by libgirl2
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Nysha

Nysha

Anna doesn't have any marketable skills and doesn't want them. She bought into this lifestyle so she could stay home and play with her kids all day. Plus, she may not think things are all that bad. Her husband got help for his problems, they've had more kids so he's still into her, she has a nice place to live and good food to eat. If she left she'd be in abject poverty, relying on social programs and/or her family to support her family, and she'd be alone in a world with no coping skills.

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Temperance

Temperance

I can't believe Anna went to amusement park (even a little local one) days away from giving birth!!! What if she went into labor at the park!!! She must be do a little later than we thought, but she did say November.  At best it's ten days before she's due (if due Nov. 30), but still that's nuts and a baby ten days early is completely normal and full term! WTF! Is she hoping to have strangers deliver her baby in an area where strangers (including men and her own children) could watch! This is the same woman who gave birth at home rather than let a male doctor look at her! Maybe she thought having a ride attendant deliver her baby was still better than Jill and Michelle! But still! How far is Silver Dollar from their house? (According to FJ, Josh and Anna are probably living in the guest house of the TTH.) 

I know women even those 9 months pregnant should be allowed to move as they please, but I still would stick closer to home if I was about to give birth!!!

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Temperance said:

 How far is Silver Dollar from their house? (According to FJ, Josh and Anna are probably living in the guest house of the TTH.) 

About a 2 hour drive from Tontitown. I can't imagine any of that was very comfortable for a woman who is going to give birth in about a week. I have no experience with being pregnant but have been to SDC enough times. One can do a fair amount of walking there, and it is a bit hilly. 

Also can say from personal experience, the seats on the rides can be a tight fit if your ass has gained mass. LOL 

Edited by Zella
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sleepysuzy

sleepysuzy

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I can't believe Anna went to amusement park (even a little local one) days away from giving birth!!! What if she went into labor at the park!!! She must be do a little later than we thought, but she did say November.  At best it's ten days before she's due (if due Nov. 30), but still that's nuts and a baby ten days early is completely normal and full term! WTF! Is she hoping to have strangers deliver her baby in an area where strangers (including men and her own children) could watch! This is the same woman who gave birth at home rather than let a male doctor look at her! Maybe she thought having a ride attendant deliver her baby was still better than Jill and Michelle! But still! How far is Silver Dollar from their house? (According to FJ, Josh and Anna are probably living in the guest house of the TTH.) 

I know women even those 9 months pregnant should be allowed to move as they please, but I still would stick closer to home if I was about to give birth!!!

I've always worked until the day I went into labor (4 pregnancies), and I was up to 45 minutes away from my home/hospital. Precipitous labor exists, but isn't all that common. I always had several hours, sometimes even days, feom the start of labor to delivery. Unless Anna has some history of fast births that I'm not aware of, it doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

1 minute ago, Zella said:

About a 2 hour drive from Tontitown. I can't imagine any of that was very comfortable for a woman who is going to give birth in about a week. I have no experience with being pregnant but have been to SDC enough times. One can do a fair amount of walking there, and it is a bit hilly. 

She could be trying to kick-start labor with that much walking.

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lookeyloo

lookeyloo

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

By how would Anna support herself and six kids living apart from Smuggar? She certainly wouldn't be a beneficiary of the Duggar teat. That's what keeps her where she is, turning a blind eye to Smuggar's shortcomings.

I think this too.  And her brother's offer way back when probably meant a lowering level of lifestyle and some judgement which she wasn't willing to accept.  Just guessing.  Who knows about the brother and what was offered.  And women stay with not good men for all sorts of reasons.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

(edited)
5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Oh,  Anna didn't want to give up her cush lifestyle. They went on what, three werk-long vacations during the summer/early fall? Weekday trips to an expensive amusement park? No problemo, even though your spouse has no visible means of support for any of it.

Yes. I'd like to hear her explain where the money is coming from now that the Carlot closed.

Edited by JoanArc
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BigBingerBro

BigBingerBro

I seriously think that Anna believes her ultimate redemption will happen when she becomes Michelle 2.0 and has over a dozen kids.  hashtag littleduggars anyone?   Unfortunately nothing will erase her husbands past.  In my mind all she's doing is setting herself up for more stress and heartache.  I just hope she has enough common sense to make sure there is something they can all fall back on once the gravy-train derails once and for all.  

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