Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Jeanne222]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Google say, "The HSI investigates human rights violations, immigration crime, human smuggling, export enforcement issues, cybercrime, financial crimes, and the smuggling of weapons and other contraband."

Hopefully it's financial fraud. They could be cooking the books. Maybe making cash deals and not reporting it on their taxes. Or they could be making a lot of large cash bank deposits. Any amount over $10,000 in cash must be reported by banks. If the Duggars are depositing more cash than a typical car lot of their size, that could prompt an investigation.

I know I'm grasping at straws here but I'm hoping it's weapons or finances.

Just my opinion..I think it's Josh and some kind of porn and I'm betting they are checking computers everywhere!  

He's a sex addict.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, Jeanne222 said:

Just my opinion..I think it's Josh and some kind of porn and I'm betting they are checking computers everywhere!  

JMO. Local police can handle the child porn cases. And, if it involves 2 states, the feds can step in.

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Zella, Ride out there and check on the car lot, please.

Haha If I had known all this when I was in the Fayetteville area on Monday, I would have totally done a drive-by!

I have a friend whose sister bought a vehicle there at some point. He told me she said it was a lemon. 😂

[Jeanne222]

3 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

JMO. Local police can handle the child porn cases. And, if it involves 2 states, the feds can step in.

Yes and I'm thinking this is something bigger than odometer s too.

Homeland Security just seems big for tonitown shenanigans.

[MsJamieDornan]

Well, it's permanently  closed now as Lukeysboat mentioned, so we need to know why Zella.

Edited November 21, 2019 by MsJamieDornan

[awaken]

They must feel so betrayed that their sweet friends at People and In Touch are publishing this negative news!  Not quite the exclusive they were hoping for!  

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Well, it's permanently  closed now as Lukeysboat mentioned, so we need to know why.

I'm getting an "access to website blocked".  That's not your standard "website not found".  That sounds like a lot more.

[Jeanne222]

10 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Zella, Ride out there and check on the car lot, please.

I think it was on katies page today that one of the two car lots was completely closed!  Maybe 15 cars last week but nothing left today!

[Zella]

Just now, awaken said:

They must feel so betrayed that their sweet friends at People and In Touch are publishing this negative news!  Not quite the exclusive they were hoping for!  

Because I am a bitch, I am cracking up thinking about how Lauren's birth thunder has been stolen by a federal raid. 😂

[hathorlive]

Just now, Zella said:

Because I am a bitch, I am cracking up thinking about how Lauren's birth thunder has been stolen by a federal raid. 😂

Somewhere in heaven, Baby Asa is weeping.

1 minute ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think it was on katies page today that one of the two car lots was completely closed!  Maybe 15 cars last week but nothing left today!

I was part of raid where a car place was chop shopping stolen cars and switching vin plates out.  They took every single car on two lots as evidence.  

[Jeeves]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Because I am a bitch, I am cracking up thinking about how Lauren's birth thunder has been stolen by a federal raid. 😂

Just come right on over here and sit by me, hon. 'Cause it kinda cracks me up too. 

(I think it's another show forum around here where we pass out the gasoline-soaked panties. As in, we're snarking so bad that we're on a bus headed to hell and wearing said gasoline-soaked drawers . . . heh. Or, is it this forum? I'm easily confused.)

Edited November 21, 2019 by Jeeves

[galaxychaser]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

Because I am a bitch, I am cracking up thinking about how Lauren's birth thunder has been stolen by a federal raid. 😂

Same. I can hear Lauren wailing that she can’t post anything on Instagram about BM and her special bond with Josiah. Haha.

[MsJamieDornan]

31 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I'm getting an "access to website blocked".  That's not your standard "website not found".  That sounds like a lot more.

I keep getting different info when I do a search.

[Zella]

I actually pulled up a website under that name, with no problem, but I am unsure if it is the right business. 

[MsJamieDornan]

It's on Wild Creek Road or something like that.

According to the article I posted: HSI spokesperson Bryan Cox confirmed the news to NBC affiliate KNWA on Wednesday, saying that agents went to a business at the 14000-block of Wildcat Creek Road in Springdale, Ark., 

Edited November 21, 2019 by MsJamieDornan

[FairyDusted]

Hmmmm....Yeah I'm getting the Under Construction Message again. Weird

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, FairyDusted said:

Hmmmm....Yeah I'm getting the Under Construction Message again. Weird

Yes, that was not there an hour ago. The "under construction " part.

[Zella]

I see Under Construction but also a random listing for a Toyota 4Runner, without an actual picture of the vehicle. In fact, it has a stock sketch of a car instead of an SUV. LOL

[PikaScrewChu]

44 minutes ago, Zella said:

Because I am a bitch, I am cracking up thinking about how Lauren's birth thunder has been stolen by a federal raid. 😂

I legitimately believe they thought releasing the exclusive pictures of JoKen and their two spawn would distract people. They actually do not know how to market themselves besides "Here's a wedding. Here's a baby."

I wonder if the exclusive photo shoot for Bsa is with People or US Weekly. It's probably too late for it to be yanked mind you. 

Lauren has probably exhausted herself by cursing Josh at every turn. 

Meanwhile Jessa has probably been told to get on that baby making train. And she's probably cursing out Josh too. 

[MsJamieDornan]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

In fact, it has a stock sketch of a car instead of an SUV. LOL

A sketch of a VERY expensive car that they would never have.

[Jeanne222]

53 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Somewhere in heaven, Baby Asa is weeping.

I was part of raid where a car place was chop shopping stolen cars and switching vin plates out.  They took every single car on two lots as evidence.  

Hummm never thought about that!  I was thinking the duggers drove them away.  

[MsJamieDornan]

Josh is listed as the "contact" for that business. It doesn't say he is the owner. Or the only person to work there.

[Temperance]

For Lauren's sake, I hope her husband isn't involved. Last I heard he was working as used car salesman. Also @JoanArc had a claim that Josiah had sold a lemon to someone and this was before this news broke. Most of the boys have worked as used car salesmen. We'll have to change the thread to the lonely J-Birds club.

On FJ, a poster named Tabitha2 threw this speculation out there before we knew about the car dealership. 

(Speculation)"There are some wack a doo and very militant as well as heavily armed End times “Christian” militia groups out there. With the Duggar’s love for Guns and Jesus and playing soldier There might well be connections that way as to Red Flag HS." (End Speculation)

If it was bigger than crooked car dealing, I could see this being true. However I have trouble connecting this to the car dealership. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Temperance

[Kbo]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

Just come right on over here and sit by me, hon. 'Cause it kinda cracks me up too. 

(I think it's another show forum around here where we pass out the gasoline-soaked panties. As in, we're snarking so bad that we're on a bus headed to hell and wearing said gasoline-soaked drawers . . . heh. Or, is it this forum? I'm easily confused.)

@Jeeves, it’s the My 600-lb Life forum 😉. Those live chat threads are epic, hope it comes back in January. 

As for the Duggars, I hope the gravy train stops here. Ironically, it’ll be when the show money goes away and these uneducated buffoons have to join the real world of bills and jobs that they’d finally have a show I might enjoy watching 😙

[GeeGolly]

It looks like the website for Wholesale Motors was started, but never finished. There is a FB page, with the last post from September.

[JoanArc]

The google images for Wholesale motors are downright depressing. The ‘Carlot Office’ is a tiny shed with windows. Like - a closet. It looks like the kind of place you’d be dragged to be raped or murdered. I would not stop there if I were driving by, let alone buy a car!

At least Champion Motorcars has this place to kick around. “We’ll sell you a lemon, sure, but at least we’re not child molesters!”.

 The Google comments on the business were gold too. There were several complaints of lemons and crappy paperwork, with the business attempting to defend itself here and there. The Google comments from the other car lot is where I found that report of Josiah selling a lemon, then quickly (metaphorically) skipping town. 

Unrelated, but it looks like Jeremy has an LLC in Arkansas, started about when they left Laredo. Looks like Jingle could be up to her classical eyes in it, too.

Edited November 21, 2019 by JoanArc

[GeeGolly]

Most wholesalers do not sell to individuals. Depending on the license, some can't sell to individuals. Wholesalers typically deal with auctions and other car lots. It's a hard grind - waking up early, building relationships with other car lots, going to auctions, moving cars from place to place. The cars are bought and sold as is, and the profit margin is much less than selling cars to the public. But there is no responsibility to make the cars 'right', so once the car is sold, the seller has no further financial risk. Some states have lemon laws which protect a private buyer, but they don't protect a car lot or auction who purchase a car.

Usually the cars are bought and sold quickly, and many wholesalers don't have much of an office, if one at all. Depending on your state, you may be able to park a few unregistered cars on your private property, but in most places you can't, which is one reason the cars a bought and sold quickly.

Like I mentioned above, wholesaling is not for sissies, it is hard work - every single day. So not really a suitable Duggar career.

[Broken Ox]

9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

As someone on Reddit posted "This has tax evasion written all over it."

It does. Seriously.

I'm guessing a late entrant into the Varsity Blues scandal.

[MaryAnneSpier]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jill-duggar-posts-being-brave-021432058.html

A good ways down in this article it says what Josh's real estate lawsuit is about. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by MaryAnneSpier

[crazycatlady58]

9 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Just come right on over here and sit by me, hon. 'Cause it kinda cracks me up too. 

(I think it's another show forum around here where we pass out the gasoline-soaked panties. As in, we're snarking so bad that we're on a bus headed to hell and wearing said gasoline-soaked drawers . . . heh. Or, is it this forum? I'm easily confused.)

Jeeves, that's My 600 pound life, I get confused where I read things also especially when people on two different shows have the same name.

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Somewhere in heaven, Baby Asa is weeping.

I was part of raid where a car place was chop shopping stolen cars and switching vin plates out.  They took every single car on two lots as evidence.  

This is the kind of thing I wonder about. I've always suspected that the origins of their cars were fishy, at best. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I legitimately believe they thought releasing the exclusive pictures of JoKen and their two spawn would distract people. They actually do not know how to market themselves besides "Here's a wedding. Here's a baby."

I think that's because everything else they've got a) involves Jim Bob and b) is for that reason either stupid, offensive to many, fishy, shady -- or all of the above. 😁

Edited November 21, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Josh is listed as the "contact" for that business. It doesn't say he is the owner. Or the only person to work there.

If this is about money or consumer fraud or unpaid taxes or anything like that, it may not be only about Josh and it's possible he may even be a somewhat minor player.

My guess is that Josh "owns" that car lot as much as Jed "owns" "his" car lot -- or Jana "owns" whatever "business" or "buildings" she supposedly owns. Etc. 

My sense has always been that all the money, all the buildings, all the businesses are Jim Bob's, all the power and all the decisions involving any of those things are Jim Bob's and only Jim Bob's.

And the kids' names are just slapped onto various things partly to make it seem as if they are independent adults to some degree since they figure that would play better with neighbors, TeeVee viewers, voters, etc.....and mostly to serve as a legal smoke screen in various ways for the many "creative activities" Jim Bob engages in, moneywise. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Churchhoney

[hathorlive]

9 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Hummm never thought about that!  I was thinking the duggers drove them away.  

It could be they drove the cars away, but why? Where would they store them?  They own the land the business is on.  We have businesses that continue to run after raids.  It could be a bad actor was doing something shady but the business is legit.  It could be you have to prove what illegal activity was taking place before trying to shut the company down.  Why move the cars off a lot they own?  Of course, being a small town, someone would have seen agents wrangling tow trucks and loading up cars.  It's a circus when that happens.  

[Jeanne222]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

It could be they drove the cars away, but why? Where would they store them?  They own the land the business is on.  We have businesses that continue to run after raids.  It could be a bad actor was doing something shady but the business is legit.  It could be you have to prove what illegal activity was taking place before trying to shut the company down.  Why move the cars off a lot they own?  Of course, being a small town, someone would have seen agents wrangling tow trucks and loading up cars.  It's a circus when that happens.  

No reason.  Just what came to mind when I heard the cars were there one day and gone the next.  Those boys and I think Joy went to auctions together so I could just see them all hustling down to the car lot and moving cars if JB  beckoned!

But that's a good question.  Why would they quickly move all those cars and where???

[Barb23]

21 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

It could be they drove the cars away, but why? Where would they store them?   

I can just picture a parade of  Duggar driven cars going nowhere in Tontitown.

[ozziemom]

8 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I can just picture a parade of  Duggar driven cars going nowhere in Tontitown.

Sounds like every other day in Duggar land

[questionfear]

13 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Beelzebub’s Car Wash and Pizzeria.

(Featuring the Hellzafire Special: a large deep dish with ghost pepper sauce, jalapeños, blackened shredded goat and extra Pepper Jack, served on a flaming platter.)

Well if you go by The Good Place, it's bagels from Arkansas, Hawaiian Pizza, and soul food from Maine....also known as Josh's breakfast. 

[Natalie68]

17 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

This actually gives the Homeland person's name. Which makes it more real to me.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/did-the-duggars-have-their-home-raided-everything-we-know-so-far-194709917.html

Since it states cyber crimes, could Josh have set up the website/grifting site for the Bahama rumored crime spree?

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, Barb23 said:

Wouldn't it be something if the raid involves the limos they showed in one of the earlier episodes of this season?  The ones they drove home to Arkansas from (I think) the DC area. 

Years ago, the small accounting firm my sister works for did the books for a small car lot business. The owner ended up in the federal Big House for a couple of years for odometer tampering.   If Smuggs & JB could be so lucky.  Could you imagine those two going  up against the Joe Giudice type of guys in the slammer?  Well at least the Kellers can visit them as part of their ministry.  

This reminded me of a place here in Santa Barbara that also was closed and the owners were sentenced to around 10 years in prison.  They had embezzled.  Official charges were grand theft and tax evasion.  It was a big deal.  My husbands boss was friends with the owner and had actually warned someone to come get their car they were going to have this company sell (did consignment of REALLY fancy cars such as Porsche, Ferarri, etc) because otherwise it would be impounded as part of the raid.  Not sure how they had this advanced knowledge.

The Taylors were accused of conspiring to commit grand theft, and the investigation showed they defrauded customers and filed false tax forms for seven years, according to the felony criminal complaint.

https://www.noozhawk.com/article/062212_montecito_motors_owners_sentenced_to_prison

They had to pay a shit ton of restitution (although the thought was it would never be paid).  PLEASE LET IT BE SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!!!  I can see them doing this for sure.  They have a lot of like minded repubs in their pocket so I am sure they think they are untouchable.  🤞

[Natalie68]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

If this is about money or consumer fraud or unpaid taxes or anything like that, it may not be only about Josh and it's possible he may even be a somewhat minor player.

My guess is that Josh "owns" that car lot as much as Jed "owns" "his" car lot -- or Jana "owns" whatever "business" or "buildings" she supposedly owns. Etc. 

My sense has always been that all the money, all the buildings, all the businesses are Jim Bob's, all the power and all the decisions involving any of those things are Jim Bob's and only Jim Bob's.

And the kids' names are just slapped onto various things partly to make it seem as if they are independent adults to some degree since they figure that would play better with neighbors, TeeVee viewers, voters, etc.....and mostly to serve as a legal smoke screen in various ways for the many "creative activities" Jim Bob engages in, moneywise. 

Maybe the LLC's are a way to move the money around and make it so they cannot seize it?  I am pulling this out of the air.  I have no idea how to criminal.

[Oldernowiser]

2 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Maybe the LLC's are a way to move the money around and make it so they cannot seize it?  I am pulling this out of the air.  I have no idea how to criminal.

I’m hoping our legal experts will weigh in, but I think LLCs limit civil liability but not criminal liability.

From LegalZoom:

“If the LLC acts as a “veil” protecting the LLC’s owners from the business’s liabilities, a court may “pierce the veil” and allow an owner to be named as a party to a lawsuit in certain circumstances. The court will pierce the veil when the LLC is being used to do something illegal or if there is no real distinction between the owners and the LLC. So if an owner commits fraud while acting as an officer for the LLC and then seeks to use the liability shield to protect himself from being personally liable, a court will generally not permit that. This issue also arises if the owner interacts with someone on behalf of the LLC but does not make that clear to the third party; if the third party brings suit related to that interaction, the owner can be named as a defendant.”

[JoanArc]

5 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

  I have no idea how to criminal.

Neither does this bunch!

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Neither does this bunch!

Luckily, however, they seem to think they do....😈

[Jeeves]

I'm no expert on this area of law, but yes, as @Oldernowiser said, the legal ways to limit civil liability don't work against criminal liability. Especially when it comes to restitution orders or the government seizing ill-gotten gains. They'll mow right through those paper edifices and get right down to where the assets came from, who controlled/controls them, etc. Not saying it's all a slam dunk but I'm sure there have been many crooks who thought they'd stashed the goods safely but found them seized by the government anyway. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

15 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I can't think of the name right now of that sovereign-citizen super-Christian tax evader that Boob went to meet when the guy got out of prison a few years back -- and happily escorted him back to his home. His shtick, of course, was telling Christians that they shouldn't have to pay taxes and devising schemes and coaching them to help them evade......

Seems too much to hope that one such Duggar scheme finally caught up with them....but I'd be so happy if it did...

Okay -- Kent Hovind --

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2015/07/11/raw-story-notices-when-kent-hovind-seen-with-jim-bob-duggar/#639ed47c6595

So I guess you should just forget all that jazz about rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s and rendering to God what is God’s huh?  
 

The more you know 🌈 

[Tikichick]

56 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Luckily, however, they seem to think they do....😈

Maybe it fits under their philosophy of see one, do one.  Widen up the umbrella and it very well could be that it covers plumbing, electrical, mechanical, midwifery, criminal acts and lawyering too.  They may well feel the establishment of the LLCs creates an impermeable wall sufficient to ward off taxes and legal requirements.

[crazy8s]

All the Duggar LLC's are surely due to the new tax laws.

LLC's are a way to pay less tax. Property and money can be moved to the younger duggars through a LLC and then taxed at their tax level. since none of them have any income it would be much less in tax than if it was all in Boob's name or duggar enterprises, etc

https://www.uschamber.com/co/run/finance/tax-law-reform-business-entity

Changes for pass-through entities

Sole proprietorships, S corporations, limited liability companies (LLCs) and partnerships are categorized as pass-through entities because, as the name suggests, profits generated by these entities are allocated directly to the businesses owners, whereupon those profits are taxed as part of the owners’ income tax returns.'

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/25/one-way-to-play-the-new-tax-law-start-an-llc.html

'One of the most notable provisions in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is a 20 percent deduction for qualified business income from so-called pass-through entities, including S corporations and limited liability companies.

Your taxable income must be below $157,500 if you’re single or $315,000 if married and filing jointly, in order to qualify for the full deduction.

Beyond those income caps, however, the law places limits on who can take the break. For instance, entrepreneurs with “service businesses” — including doctors and lawyers — may not be able to grab the deduction if their income is too high.

That’s where accountants and entrepreneurs are getting creative, finding ways to help businesses maximize this tax break.'

"Here’s an example from Gruda: A married chiropractor owns his own practice and has more than $315,000 in taxable income. He can’t take the 20 percent deduction from his practice because it’s a service business and he exceeds the income threshold.

In order to capture the tax break, the chiropractor starts an LLC, and contributes the building where he runs his business to it.

The chiropractor then pays $300,000 a year in rent to the LLC — and this rent becomes qualified business income on which he can potentially take the 20 percent deduction. This deduction is subject to additional thresholds and limits.

Though income from the chiropractic practice won’t qualify for the tax break, the rental income from the second LLC does.

“We are converting service business income that would not qualify for the deduction into income that would qualify, by spinning out the business and building,” "

[farmgal4]

15 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Well, it's permanently  closed now as Lukeysboat mentioned, so we need to know why Zella.

Zella, we’ll be passing the collection plate and taking up a Love Offering for your time and trouble. 😘

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Zella, we’ll be passing the collection plate and taking up a Love Offering for your time and trouble. 😘

As one of my good friends like to say, "Let's do something religious" and then he'll take off his hat to collect a love offering. 😂