Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Very true but that might not be how they see it. If she’s actually living there, they obviously don’t think that’s a problem and that Josh could harm her. 

Well, given all the circumstances of the molestations -- that Josh was quite young at the time; that he'd been raised to believe he had dominion over all his younger sibs and would ultimately have dominion over females generally; that he had no outlets for normal teenager stuff, sexual or otherwise, and, like the others, was confined within that extremely intrusive and controlling family most of the time; that he did also act out with the non-family girl who was closer to his own age; that he'd been raised to believe he was very hot stuff and entitled to whatever he wanted; that as an adult he seems to have been drawn toward adult strippers, not teenagers; etc -- I think it's quite possible that he never actually had real pedophiliac tendencies in the first place. That he was acting out his boredom, sexual urges and curiosities, and sense of entitlement and overall pissiness with whoever was available, not with young girls because that was his interest.

But.....even if all that were true, and of course it might not be -- .....in the 21st century, no 11-year-old should be sent somewhere to spend her time as a "helper" for some son-and-daughter-in-law of a middle-class-probably-even-low-level-millionaire family who are too stupid and selfish to stop having kids when the parents feel they can't adequately look after (and also homeschool for no reason) all those kids on a daily basis. 

So if that's indeed what happened -- that an 11-year-old is or was in that house as a "helper" -- then that alone would show an astonishingly poor level of judgment and lack of ethical compass on the part of all these people, including her parents, Anna and Josh, of course, and JB and M -- the parenting role models, in my opinion. 

It's what happens when you think of kids as just more bodies to throw on the pile that God apparently wants you to make. (although the girls have to get off the pile to cook and diaper at around age 7 or so). 

Which is to say -- maybe this 11-year-old helper scenario didn't happen and I hope it didn't -- but if it did, it wouldn't surprise me because of their incredibly stupid and thoughtless general attitude when it comes to children. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Rabbittron]

We need a love button. 

[OpieTaylor]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

One picture of this minor cousin has been posted. The Duggars, including Anna, have posted pictures all summer long - not one post included this young girl. Not one with any of the new grandbabies, on vacation, or at any birthday party. I don't think she lives anywhere, but at home with her parents (thank God).

It appears an FBI raid didn't happen either. It would be front page news in the Arkansas area and all over the tabloids. 

I'm guessing the reliable sources got their info crossed or made all this up.

There was a period of time within this past year or two that Anna made multiple references to a cousin, including photos. I always wondered who she was; I figured she came from Anna's family. But, still, that doesn't mean the girl lives/d with them. Maybe she did for the summer?

ETA: I just found photos of her w/ the Duggars on Facebook in 2019: October, August & April - birthday parties and a Silver Dollar City trip, so all things that she could have attended without actually living w/ Duggars. In 2018, she's also in a few of Anna's Instagram posts, including Xmas and July. That's as far back as I've looked (I need to get to work!)

Edited November 18, 2019 by OpieTaylor
additional info

[JoanArc]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

One picture of this minor cousin has been posted. The Duggars, including Anna, have posted pictures all summer long - not one post included this young girl. Not one with any of the new grandbabies, on vacation, or at any birthday party. I don't think she lives anywhere, but at home with her parents (thank God).

This us simply incorrect.  As I’ve said, there are pictures of her up to the Duggers I posted, and now have hastily purged. Plus her being in the background of Counting On.  I did not know her backstory enough to be as disgusted as I am now.  I have no idea what is being investigated, if anything, but I’m angry enough as is.

[PikaScrewChu]

You guys. What if we've been punked and had a Pimp Momma Kris pulled in order to get people to talk about the Duggars and tune in to Counting On?

At this point I wouldn't put it past them. 

[Barb23]

12 hours ago, irisheyes said:

I saw this thread had blown up and figured Anna had her baby. I hope it's not true.  Not because I'm a Josh or Anna fan, but for the kid's sake. Ugh. Hopefully, it's tax fraud. 

I thought the same thing about all the activity in their thread.

Where are the Smuggs living?  They sold the large cape cod they refurbished, correct?  Was it disclosed where they moved to?  I assume this was the house of the possible FBI raid? 

I'm with you all - hoping it has nothing to do with any of the kids but everything to do with the Duggar businesses incl Chief of Staff Jim Bob.

[BradandJanet]

4 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

You guys. What if we've been punked and had a Pimp Momma Kris pulled in order to get people to talk about the Duggars and tune in to Counting On?

At this point I wouldn't put it past them. 

If so, it's a pretty bad strategy for a family that has built its fortune on godliness and virtue. 

The Duggar family is a house of cards that almost fell once except Jim Bob and his lawyers/media experts managed to prop it back up. If something is going on, and the odds are good there is, eventually, the truth will get out. Derick? Derick?

[BitterApple]

At this point, I agree the raid story is not likely to be true. The Duggars live in a small town. Somebody would've blabbed to the media by now. Which makes me wonder, why someone started that rumor in the first place? It seems so random. 

[BetyBee]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

At this point, I agree the raid story is not likely to be true. The Duggars live in a small town. Somebody would've blabbed to the media by now. Which makes me wonder, why someone started that rumor in the first place? It seems so random. 

I agree that the rumor is untrue. I also don't find it odd to turn off comments under these circumstances. 

[Zella]

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The Duggars live in a small town. 

As someone who actually does live in a small town in Arkansas, no, they really don't--contrary to the narrative Michelle likes to spin, they live on the edge of a metro area of over 500,000 people that is widely believed to become the 2nd largest metro area in the state with the next census. 

That being said, I agree with you that if an actual FBI raid had happened, we'd have some confirmation by now. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Zella

[farmgal4]

20 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

At this point, I agree the raid story is not likely to be true. The Duggars live in a small town. Somebody would've blabbed to the media by now. Which makes me wonder, why someone started that rumor in the first place? It seems so random. 

Whoever started the rumor is a total jackass IMO.

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, Zella said:

As someone who actually does live in a small town in Arkansas, no, they really don't--contrary to the narrative Michelle likes to spin, they live on the edge of a metro area of over 500,000 people that is widely believed to become the 2nd largest metro area in the state with the next census. 

That being said, I agree with you that if an actual FBI raid had happened, we'd have some confirmation by now. 

I can believe than an actual FBI raid didn’t happen but where there’s smoke there is fire. Especially with Josh.

I hope that no humans have been hurt, (especially a kid) because that would be awful but after the 2nd scandal broke I said Josh would do something ELSE to embarrass his family. JB thinks he has control but Josh is still relatively young. He can only “pretend” to be this Christian family man for so long. 

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

One picture of this minor cousin has been posted. The Duggars, including Anna, have posted pictures all summer long - not one post included this young girl. Not one with any of the new grandbabies, on vacation, or at any birthday party. I don't think she lives anywhere, but at home with her parents (thank God).

It appears an FBI raid didn't happen either. It would be front page news in the Arkansas area and all over the tabloids. 

I'm guessing the reliable sources got their info crossed or made all this up.

Thank you.  It's sad that those blind gossip sites exist and post knowingly false articles simply to see if they can get people inflamed and speculating on their fake news.  

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

At this point, I agree the raid story is not likely to be true. The Duggars live in a small town. Somebody would've blabbed to the media by now. Which makes me wonder, why someone started that rumor in the first place? It seems so random. 

Well, a lot of rumors are pretty random when you come right down to it, I think....

And I don't know exactly how this one started but the idea of Josh -- and sometimes JB -- getting into a new sexual scandal, often but not always involving somebody young, comes up as a rumor every little while, it seems......Once you have a reputation for something -- even if it's a false reputation let alone a true one -- somebody's imagination or ill intent is going to run with that, I guess...

.i remember a couple years ago something about one of them (JB) being allowed by a local family to impregnate their young daughter, and then there was one about Josh being involved with some local high-school girl, and then there was the one where somebody did some theft or something with a woman vic and it was somehow related to a surveillance-camera pic in a drugstore or somewhere -- and there was a giant groundswell of people declaring that the picture was absolutely of Josh, even though it was fuzzy and didn't actually look that much like him......

And that list doesn't even include a lot of those "blind items" that could be taken to refer to Josh or JB or Derick or Jeremy or Josiah or whoever...

Plus, the whole thing gets fueled too, I expect, by the fact that the Duggars have had people closely around them who have actually done sex crimes, some quite recently, like that supposed Jana-suitor (and, I think, purported close friend of Josh's, maybe?) who got nabbed for some kind of sex crime involving a teenager...

And then the other early part of this rumor was financial issues -- and how-they-get-and-handle-their-money is another thread that runs through the Duggar lives -- both in a factual way and in a speculation way ..... 

So this kind of thing pretty much happens all the time, seems to me. I doubt six months has gone by without some kind of hot rumor in one of these veins or a year without one such rumor blowing up to fairly large proportions

Edited November 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[OpieTaylor]

https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/fbi-denies-raiding-josh-duggars-home-amid-rumors-of-investigation/ 

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2019/11/josh-duggar-fbi-responds-to-rumors-home-raid-porn-allegations/ 

[Sew Sumi]

Even Pickles is backing down and saying the rumors are false. 

Crystal Ball Katie agrees that there isn't enough concrete evidence to make the rumors credible.

[DangerousMinds]

27 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, a lot of rumors are pretty random when you come right down to it, I think....

And I don't know exactly how this one started but the idea of Josh -- and sometimes JB -- getting into a new sexual scandal, often but not always involving somebody young, comes up as a rumor every while or so......Once you have a reputation for something -- even if it's a false reputation let alone a true one -- somebody's imagination or ill intent is going to run with that, I guess...

.i remember a couple years ago something about one of them (JB) being allowed by a local family to impregnate their young daughter, and then there was one about Josh being involved with some local high-school girl, and then there was the one where somebody did some theft or something with a woman vic and it was somehow related to a surveillance-camera pic in a drugstore or somewhere -- and there was a giant groundswell of people declaring that the picture was absolutely of Josh, even though it was fuzzy and didn't actually look that much like him......

And that list doesn't even include a lot of those "blind items" that could be taken to refer to Josh or JB or Derick or Jeremy or Josiah or whoever...

Plus, the whole thing gets fueled too, I expect, by the fact that the Duggars have had people closely around them who have actually done sex crimes, some quite recently, like that supposed Jana-suitor (and, I think, purported close friend of Josh's, maybe?) who got nabbed for some kind of sex crime involving a teenager...

And then the other early part of this rumor was financial issues -- and how-they-get-and-handle-their-money is another thread that runs through the Duggar lives -- both in a factual way and in a speculation way ..... 

So this kind of thing pretty much happens all the time, seems to me. I doubt six months has gone by without some kind of hot rumor in one of these veins or a year without one such rumor blowing up to fairly large proportions

And don’t forget the guy who married Bin and Jessa!

[JoanArc]

Frankly, I'm relived. For everyone. Still a lot of WTF surrounding all this, tough.

[MonicaM]

41 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Even Pickles is backing down and saying the rumors are false. 

Crystal Ball Katie agrees that there isn't enough concrete evidence to make the rumors credible.

My feeling is that the rumors were inaccurate, not necessarily totally false.  I still think something was going on, just not a raid by the FBI.  Of course I have no way to confirm my suspicions, and this may remain an unsolved mystery.

However, whether there was any truth to the rumor or not, people were extremely quick to believe the worst about Josh.  The whole discussion about his child molesting ways and his smug, punch-able face roared to life again, possibly with even more venom than when that news first broke.  Ma and Pa Duggar, along with idiot Anna, need to take note that despite their efforts to efforts to rehab his image and slowly integrate him into public life again, he is still a detested social pariah. 

If they were hoping people would forget, they were wrong.  

[PikaScrewChu]

4 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

If so, it's a pretty bad strategy for a family that has built its fortune on godliness and virtue. 

The Duggar family is a house of cards that almost fell once except Jim Bob and his lawyers/media experts managed to prop it back up. If something is going on, and the odds are good there is, eventually, the truth will get out. Derick? Derick?

The only difference between the Duggars and Kardashians is that the Kardashians unashamedly admit how they keep interest going. The Duggars have no virtue to speak of. 

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, JoanArc said:

This us simply incorrect.  As I’ve said, there are pictures of her up to the Duggers I posted, and now have hastily purged. Plus her being in the background of Counting On.  I did not know her backstory enough to be as disgusted as I am now.  I have no idea what is being investigated, if anything, but I’m angry enough as is.

Thanks for the correction. I should have said there were no posts that I have seen regarding this young cousin. It just upsets me when real people, outside of Scandals #1 and #2, get pulled into speculation that they're being harmed and/or their parents are complete idiots. I was under the impression that no one knows if Anna and Josh have anyone other than their kids living with them, or even if Josh and Anna have a home at this moment.

I hope beyond hope that if anything is going down it has nothing to do with any minor children.

[DXD526]

I go back and forth in regard to Anna. Sometimes I think she can be dismissed as an arrogant idiot who stays with a sex pest/predator and keeps reproducing with him because she's too stupid to wipe. Then I remember that she was raised in a cult that taught her from birth that as a woman, her sole value in life was to have regular sex with her headship and churn out baby after baby, cuz Gawd. In her insular world, that's all she heard, so she believed it, and she lives accordingly. 

So I go back and forth...

[EVS]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can believe than an actual FBI raid didn’t happen but where there’s smoke there is fire. Especially with Josh.

I hope that no humans have been hurt, (especially a kid) because that would be awful but after the 2nd scandal broke I said Josh would do something ELSE to embarrass his family. JB thinks he has control but Josh is still relatively young. He can only “pretend” to be this Christian family man for so long. 

I completely agree. I’m the one who suggested 19 Scandals and Counting for the Smuggar thread title.  I keep waiting for the next one to happen. I suspect a lot of people feel the same way which is why the rumor got so much attention on social media. 

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

I go back and forth in regard to Anna. Sometimes I think she can be dismissed as an arrogant idiot who stays with a sex pest/predator and keeps reproducing with him because she's too stupid to wipe. Then I remember that she was raised in a cult that taught her from birth that as a woman, her sole value in life was to have regular sex with her headship and churn out baby after baby, cuz Gawd. In her insular world, that's all she heard, so she believed it, and she lives accordingly. 

So I go back and forth...

Me, too. 

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can believe than an actual FBI raid didn’t happen but where there’s smoke there is fire. Especially with Josh.

I hope that no humans have been hurt, (especially a kid) because that would be awful but after the 2nd scandal broke I said Josh would do something ELSE to embarrass his family. JB thinks he has control but Josh is still relatively young. He can only “pretend” to be this Christian family man for so long. 

I have such a good suggestion for a rebellious act he could take that would have real -- and good -- consequences. 

Sneak out, Josh, and do the very naughty, super-rebellious, Gothard-defying, sex-related act of -- getting snipped! 

Just sneak around, lie to them all, and do it do it do it! It's so devilish! You could get out a whole lot of super-rebellious, disgruntled, I'm-throwing-all-this-in-your-faces! if-you-only-knew! type feelings. 

Do it! Go for the snip! (And I promise that it won't send you to hell!)

Edited November 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[PikaScrewChu]

23 minutes ago, EVS said:

I completely agree. I’m the one who suggested 19 Scandals and Counting for the Smuggar thread title.  I keep waiting for the next one to happen. I suspect a lot of people feel the same way which is why the rumor got so much attention on social media. 

Had they just announced "Nothing is going on! Have a blessed day!" things wouldn't have spiraled. Amy replying in a snarky manner and Amy, Anna, and Jed turning off comments plus the purged photos was just bizarre. 

That being said I would kill to see what all of their IG hits and engagements were last night. I know non-influencers on the platform are struggling now the algorithm has changed. I imagine this might look better to some of the businesses they shill for to see that spike. The spike will likely continue for a few more days. 

[Picture It. Sicily]

22 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I was sitting on the Cousin Emily stuff. She's only 11 or 12 years old. ☹️

An 11 year old girl? Is Anna out of her fucking mind letting a little girl come stay with them?

[Sew Sumi]

She believes that Smuggar is cured. 

[Churchhoney]

9 minutes ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

An 11 year old girl? Is Anna out of her fucking mind letting a little girl come stay with them?

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. 

[galaxygirl76]

12 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She believes that Smuggar is cured. 

Yep, Jesus jail and praying took care of that. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by galaxygirl76

[Sew Sumi]

1 minute ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Yep, Jesus jail and praying took care of that. 

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[farmgal4]

51 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She believes that Smuggar is cured. 

Which is why I primarily feel sorry for Anna.  She’s been drinking the Kool-Aid since birth and is fully brainwashed.  She’s also naive enough to believe that God and the so-called “treatment center” has him 100% cured.

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

It just upsets me when real people, outside of Scandals #1 and #2, get pulled into speculation that they're being harmed and/or their parents are complete idiots.

I'd argue this is still human trafficking that was under the radar until now. It doesn't have to involve sex to be exploitative.

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

Which is why I primarily feel sorry for Anna.  She’s been drinking the Kool-Aid since birth and is fully brainwashed.  She’s also naive enough to believe that God and the so-called “treatment center” has him 100% cured.

I tend to think that Anna is living in willful ignorance about the person she is married to.  She has to believe that Josh is cured.  I do think she was clued into Josh's former sins before she married him.  Not all the details, but enough to know that he had some sort of sexual sin in his past**, he has repented, and she has an important role as a Good Christian Woman(tm) to keep her husband on the straight and narrow--ie. her magical hoo-ha was going to keep him from seeking other outlets for his desires.  For Anna to admit that Josh is still a sex pest, then she would have to admit defeat.  She would have to admit that she is an abject failure because she was not joyfully available enough to keep Josh sated.  No, in Anna's eyes, Josh is cured and is also a great husband and father.  

**to these fundies, that sin could be anything from touching your sleeping sister to banging one out while imagining a threesome with you, Captain American and Bucky ah, I mean two playboy bunnies.  

[GeeGolly]

31 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I'd argue this is still human trafficking that was under the radar until now. It doesn't have to involve sex to be exploitative.

I 100% would agree. But is it a fact that this child lived with J & A?

My point is that the child would be harmed and the parents crazy idiots if the child lived with J & A. Whether it be as a mother's helper or worse. But if the child has never lived with J & A then the speculation could cause harm and that feels very unfair.

Edited November 19, 2019 by GeeGolly

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I 100% would agree. But is it a fact that this child lived with J & A?

My point is that the child would be harmed and the parents crazy idiots if the child lived with J & A. Whether it be as a mother's helper or worse. But if the child has never lived with J & A then the speculation could cause harm and that feels very unfair.

Emily is in the background of an episode of CO. Anna has posted several pictures of her (now scrubbed) on SM. The girl has lived in the Smuggar household for about a year.

[JoanArc]

To add more squick- don't they consider you an adult at like age 13 or so? Not sure if this applies to females.

[Jeanne222]

I wonder what the husbands of the sisters Josh molested think of him?  I wonder if they even speak to him?   The girls are under new 'management ' now that they are married.

[SMama]

Josh contributed to Derick’s Cross Church grift, Derick recorded a video message to thank him. Also, the Dillards and the Smuggs were photographed having dinner together and went on those stupid quadruple dates with them.

[awaken]

22 hours ago, Lunera said:

Anna just posted a recipe on her Instagram story. 

Nice attempt at recovery, Anna!  👍🏼

[Annabel11]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

Nice attempt at recovery, Anna!  👍🏼

And such a basic recipe full of white sugar, when there are so many others that would make them more interesting and healthier! 

[TresGatos]

11 hours ago, awaken said:

Nice attempt at recovery, Anna!  👍🏼

Did she grift the bananas from Jill?

[BradandJanet]

58 minutes ago, TresGatos said:

Did she grift the bananas from Jill?

Anna and the big banana. At least it isn't dancing, like Jill's. 

[3 is enough]

I was sick last week, and when I came back online and saw the activity on this topic I assumed that the baby had been born.  Surprise! Once again, scandal breaks when Anna is close to the end of a pregnancy.

Here's a thought: If you have to bring in a live in "helper" maybe you should stop having kids.  

Seriously though, what the hell is wrong with these people?  It's 2019, not 1919.  Even if Josh's past was squeaky clean, who brings in an 11-12 year old as live-in help?  She a MINOR, FFS.  Does Jim Bob really think the public has moved on?  Just because he and Michelle have begun to worm their way back onto the show does not mean all is forgiven.  Some people just never learn, I guess.

ETA: My post was poorly worded.  I doubt that Emily was actually LIVING with Josh and Anna, and I do think that JB, dumb as he is, would understand that would be a very bad idea.  

But I can see them taking this girl in to help her (much like Tyler), except that, she's you know, a girl, and Anna could use some help, so let's kill two birds with one stone.  So she can live at the TTH, but go over to Anna's to help, because, again, she 's a girl, and what else could she possibly do with her time?  That is a scenario I can envision.  And it's possible she was just visiting for a couple of weeks but she still was put to work, because the Duggars are always looking out for themselves.

Edited November 19, 2019 by 3 is enough

[Temperance]

We have seen pictures of their cousin Emily with Josh and Anna, but we have no proof she's living with them. That's speculation.

A lot of those pictures are still up if you look for them.

The girl could be staying at the TTH and she could be living with her parents. 

[ChocolateAddict]

On 11/19/2019 at 11:14 AM, GeeGolly said:

I 100% would agree. But is it a fact that this child lived with J & A?

My point is that the child would be harmed and the parents crazy idiots if the child lived with J & A. Whether it be as a mother's helper or worse. But if the child has never lived with J & A then the speculation could cause harm and that feels very unfair.

Couldn't agree more @GeeGolly. Somehow in the space of one day it became fact that this little girl (I don't even think it's fair to use her name) lives with Josh and Anna and, further, the speculation was that she has been sexually abused. Given how upset everyone here was about Pickles outing the fifth victim, it seems unbelievable to me that this child has been openly discussed as being another potential (almost confirmed) victim complete with her name published. For crying out loud, she's been called a 'slave' and trafficking victim! From the information on this forum it would be incredibly easy to find everything about her given her name, age and family relation to the Duggars has been posted. 

This rumour originated from the DuggarSnark sub and spiralled very quickly despite there being no evidence beyond a Facebook secret group. While I don't care if Boob and Josh were speculated as being guilty of tax fraud or whatever, I do take issue with this girl being discussed as a sexual assault victim based on absolutely no evidence.  Bloody hell, we don't even know if she lives there! As @Temperance said, she could just be in photos with them because she's a family friend, we don't know. 

I like snarking on the Duggars and this is in no way defending Josh & Anna.  But this little girl now has hundreds of people reading about how she is a potential sexual assault and child trafficking victim, complete with all the identifying information you could need to find her without evidence.  And that's not cool. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by ChocolateAddict

[BetyBee]

Well stated, @ChocolateAddict. I agree.

Edited November 19, 2019 by BetyBee

[PikaScrewChu]

Imma just leave this here. Apparently Homeland Security did do a raid after all.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/homeland-security-investigations-raid-duggar-home/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KNWA_-_Northwest_Arkansas_News

[mythoughtis]

3 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Imma just leave this here. Apparently Homeland Security did do a raid after all.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/homeland-security-investigations-raid-duggar-home/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KNWA_-_Northwest_Arkansas_News

Thank you.  I tried to link it just before you did and couldn’t.  
So raid was different agency and might have actually been at JB and Michelle’s?  And Jed doesn’t live there? 

Edited November 20, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Oldernowiser]

Jed “doesn’t live there” by what, 48 hours?