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Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45

The Duggars post about politics on social media frequently, but these social media posts are not an invitation to discuss politics here in this forum. This rule extends to Duggar adjacent families, friends, associates etc. Such discussions are a violation of the Politics Policy. 

I understand with recent current events there may be a desire to discuss certain social media postings of those in the Duggar realm as they relate to politics- this is not the place for those discussions. If you believe someone has violated forum rules, report them, do not respond or engage.

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Lady Edith
Lady Edith

Imho if you are pro-life, BE PRO LIFE.  That is, be pro every STAGE of life, not just in utero.  Why doesn’t pro life include teens?  Elders?  Suppprt QUALITY public education for all of our children.

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Arwen Evenstar

Dammit, I wish they'd all stop spreading misinformation about abortion.  Most women who seek abortion don't do it at the stage of that ultrasound image Dustbin posted unless there are severe abnormali

IntoTheMystic
IntoTheMystic

I went on a couple of those ATI approved 'Journey to the Heart' brainwashings back in the day when I was a teenager. I think they might have been called something different. I don't really remember. M

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lascuba

lascuba

23 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

For whatever reason, I agree that the show is as far as Jessa is willing to go.  She looks like she adores the camera, on her terms.  

See, I don't think she likes the cameras at all, which would explain why she never seriously tries to branch out and grow some kind of brand. It's only post-Joshgate that Jessa really put herself out there in front of the cameras, because it hit her then that they have no other means of earning real money and no one else in her family was making a real effort to keep the show going. Before the scandals, she was like that football player: "I'm only here so I don't get fined."

Really, the only kidults who I think actually enjoyed the cameras before Joshgate were Josh (and Anna), Jill, and Josiah.

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

You may be right, but I see her as liking the attention that she gets being filmed.  She's pretty and she knows it.

I didn't watch early on, so (thankfully) missed Joshley's years.  

I remember Marshawn Lynch saying that, when he was a Seahawk.  Interesting guy.

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Madtown

Madtown

13 hours ago, SMama said:

I’m sure Jill did a wonderful job performing Izzy’s dental cleaning with her “medical thingies.”

The horror of that thought..lol

13 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jill is not above posting her kids' tantrums on social media, so I'm going with no. 

Good point! There would probably be 10 videos of the cleaning. My guess is she'll have one up soon with his visit. Gotta keep up with Jessa for attention.

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Barb23

Barb23

1 hour ago, Madtown said:

The horror of that thought..lol

Good point! There would probably be 10 videos of the cleaning. My guess is she'll have one up soon with his visit. Gotta keep up with Jessa for attention.

Yay !

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Misslindsey

Misslindsey

3 hours ago, Madtown said:

Good point! There would probably be 10 videos of the cleaning. My guess is she'll have one up soon with his visit. Gotta keep up with Jessa for attention.

Jill would just keep asking Izzy if he is having fun over and over, followed by Jill saying "Yay" a million times.

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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

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(edited)
Quote

 the ugly sweater party!

Actually, most of them look better here that they do when they're NOT trying to look "ugly" (Josh being the glaring exception).  And even with the Christmas decorations, the TTH living room still looks like the lobby of an Econo Lodge.

Edited by Albanyguy
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Barb23

Barb23

33 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Actually, most of them look better here that they do when they're NOT trying to look "ugly" (Josh being the glaring exception).  And even with the Christmas decorations, the TTH living room still looks like the lobby of an Econo Lodge.

I was going to post same thing.

I'm guessing the Italian dinner they had was a Stouffers special, Italian bread & salad.  (Not knocking Stouffers but a homemade pasta dish would be nice for a change.) Maybe Jill made Baked Spaghetti or Crockpot Lasagna.

I would love to see the desserts since they were part of a competition. 

The look on Sammy's face could lead to a chapter of his & Yay's saga on the Dillards thread.  I hope Sammy took in all the goings on at the Ugly Sweater party. 

How can they stand to be in the same room as Smuggs?  Bad enough he stepped out on Anna & all the Ashley Madison & porn stuff but what he did to his sisters was just incorrigible among other things.  How can the husbands be civil around him? 

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Catfin

Catfin

33 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Actually, most of them look better here that they do when they're NOT trying to look "ugly" (Josh being the glaring exception).  And even with the Christmas decorations, the TTH living room still looks like the lobby of an Econo Lodge.

Currently reading this from an Econo Lodge room, visiting my daughter at college. Shudder. Definitely time tripping to the late ‘80’s, early ‘90’s. 

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drafan

drafan

Do the Duggs need the concept of Ugly Christmas Sweater explained?   This looked like a really lame costume party.

Some of them are dressed as bad as they look every single day. Josh is just ugly, so didn't need to try that hard.

Didn't recognize Joy at all. Had to stare at the pic. Why the pot belly on her hubby? Is that real?

Jill looked really cute. That sweater, which is actually clean, is maybe something she thinks is cool! Yay!

Henry is the cutest grandkid by a mile.

JD looked like one of those brothers who showed up at Bob Newhart's inn with roadkill. His wife looks adorable.

I see choreographer Travis Wall from SYTYCD showed up wearing a hat in the first pic. (OMG....a DANCER, plus GAY....horrors.)

I so don't want to see the "baked goods". So lots of thanks for that omission. But there's still Part 2.....

Aaaand Bin wins the contest, hands down,  for that awful turtleneck.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

2 hours ago, Barb23 said:

How can they stand to be in the same room as Smuggs?  Bad enough he stepped out on Anna & all the Ashley Madison & porn stuff but what he did to his sisters was just incorrigible among other things.  How can the husbands be civil around him? 

I’m surprised to learn as an adult how many people are expected and encouraged to eat holiday dinner with their abuser, to “keep the peace”. I assume this is similar. 

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BitterApple

BitterApple

18 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’m surprised to learn as an adult how many people are expected and encouraged to eat holiday dinner with their abuser, to “keep the peace”. I assume this is similar. 

I agree. When Sierra talked about being sexually abused by a male relative, she mentioned having to face him at family parties and holiday gatherings like nothing ever happened. 

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

25 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. When Sierra talked about being sexually abused by a male relative, she mentioned having to face him at family parties and holiday gatherings like nothing ever happened. 

Poor thing. The comfort of the abuser is more important than the well being of the innocent victim. 

Of course I don’t want to speak for a victim, but I would think that the attitude of “get over it” is just as bad if not worse than the abuse (psychologically). The abuser is one person that hurt you, but for your other loved ones to protect them etc- that’s another betrayal. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
25 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Poor thing. The comfort of the abuser is more important than the well being of the innocent victim. 

Of course I don’t want to speak for a victim, but I would think that the attitude of “get over it” is just as bad if not worse than the abuse (psychologically). The abuser is one person that hurt you, but for your other loved ones to protect them etc- that’s another betrayal. 

Well, here's what Gothard and company prescribe for the abused. Plus commentary on what crap it is. Gothardites hold abused people to account for any and all bitterness they may hold in the future toward their abusers. And of course the default position is that most abused people bring it on themselves. So in Dugg world those families are just going with the program. You couldn't have those wonderful MEN-IN-POWER-POSITIONS being shunned from the table, now, could you? 

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

How “Counseling Sexual Abuse” Blames and Shames Survivors

18 April 2013, 06:00

 

Moderator

119

Versions of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) document “Counseling Sexual Abuse” were distributed at Advanced Training Institute (ATI) Counseling Seminars for over a decade. The document speaks for itself, but Recovering Grace would like to point out how victim-blaming and/or callous dismissal of abuse survivors’ pain is built into almost every one of the document’s ten points. Commentary follows below the document image.

image.thumb.png.3456ad89addd0d22c35c9b25db7d74e6.png

Points 1 and 2 downplay the sexual abuse victim’s physical suffering as damage to the “least important” part of a person, with no mention of other possible effects of abuse.

Point 3 condemns the victim for self-damage (presumably to mind, will, and emotions left untouched by the abuser) and rebukes the victim for feeling not only bitterness, but also guilt.

Point 4 explicitly suggests that the victim invited the abuse by enticing the abuser or by earning divine wrath. This is a particularly stark example of Gothard’s theology: Gothard presents a God who passively or actively allows sexual abuse as just punishment for “immodest dress,” “indecent exposure,” “being out from under protection of our parents,” or “being with evil friends.” When this document was published, the IBLP operational definition of the term “defraud” was “to stir up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled,” and a version of this definition is still used by IBLP. In the IBLP document, “Lessons From Moral Failures in a Family,” this concept of modesty and temptation is also applied to the sexual abuse of very young children.

Point 5 explicitly speculates that the sexual abuse victim is likely guilty for some part of the abuse or its aftermath, and appears to directly contradict Point 3, which reprimanded the victim for damaging his or her soul with guilt. “Moral vaccination” seems to reference a concept Gothard shared in seminars and conferences in the 1980s, when he told the story of a woman who struggled with unwanted sexual thoughts and eventually was raped. In the anecdote, Gothard described the rape and the woman’s subsequent aversion to sexuality as inoculation against lust.

Point 6 leads with the default assumption that the abused is usually at least partly at fault, presenting the guiltless abuse victim as an exception. This guiltless victim is told what great spiritual power he or she can expect to be compensated with after being sexually violated. While it appears that we have at last reached a bullet point that doesn’t chide or censure sexual abuse survivors, Point 6 has a dark reverse side that makes it as toxic as Point 4; if the abuse victim is not experiencing all seven evidences of being “mighty in Spirit,” does that mean he or she was not truly faultless in the abuse? If a survivor of sexual abuse does not adequately exhibit “spiritual discernment” and “creativity,” or feel “energy, enthusiasm, joy,” and “inner peace,” is that evidence of guilt or complicity in one’s own abuse? The standard for being “not at fault” is not only to have demonstrated perfect modesty and obedience before the abuse (by IBLP definitions) and to have harbored no guilt or “bitterness” after the abuse, but also to demonstrate seven arbitrary qualities of an extraordinary super-Christian soon after the abuse. It is a subjective test of guiltlessness few could pass.

Point 7 is an interesting choice of Biblical example of sexual abuse, but has some merit. Here Gothard conflates correlation with causation, indicating that Daniel’s wisdom, understanding, and position were direct compensations for physical trauma. Also telling is the absence of rape victims Dinah and Tamar as examples of guiltless survivors. Other IBLP materials denounce these women for inviting or failing to thwart their own abuse.

Point 8 presents a vicious false dichotomy that pressures the abuse victim to symbolically “choose” sexual abuse as a necessary accompaniment or gateway to being “mighty in Spirit.” This is not mere acceptance that the past cannot be changed, nor just a choice to make something positive of the situation going forward; this is a theoretical active choice in favor of being abused. Here Gothard defies his own admonitions to his followers to avoid answering questions about hypothetical situations.

Points 9 and 10 echo Points 1-3 in condemning any “bitterness” the victim may feel — and by word count this is apparently a far greater concern than the sexual abuse itself. The document presumes to know the exact reason for any “bitterness” on the part of the survivor: “He damaged your body.” No other reasons for anger or pain are considered here, and no other possible negative effects of sexual abuse are mentioned. In a trichotomistic document that asserts the importance of the soul over the body and the primacy of the spirit over both of these, negative effects on the victim are relegated exclusively to the lowest level, the physical, then effectively dismissed as petty. This slyly suggests that any continued pain or difficulty the survivor experiences is the result of carnality or insufficient dedication of the spirit to God. The document assumes that the victim is not already dedicated to God, and was likely not adequately dedicated to God at the time of sexual assault. Point 9 is a master stroke of passive aggression against survivors who would dare express any ongoing spiritual or emotional distress resulting from their sexual abuse. It silences survivors whose stories have not yet culminated in complete spiritual triumph.

Instead of the usual IBLP language of tearing down strongholds, reclaiming surrendered ground, and replacing strongholds with “towers of truth,” Point 10 advises victims to reclaim surrendered ground and “cleanse with rhemas.” This contextually unusual choice of language is darkly jarring in light of the feelings of being dirty that so many sexual abuse survivors report experiencing. Point 10 subtly supports the idea that sexual abuse survivors are in special need of purification.

The damaging potential of “Counseling Sexual Abuse” is not theoretical. The damage has already happened. The teachings outlined in this document have had devastating effects in the lives of real people. Click here to read one story directly affected by these teachings.

Edited by Churchhoney
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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

Gothard has successfully created a sexual abuse factory. That wretched, creepy, bastard.

As an atheist, I find myself almost wishing hell existed just so he would be so very surprised when he dies, which cannot be soon enough.

OTOH, the parents who buy in and inflict this pathology on their children are in some ways worse.

 I feel so sad and sick for the poor victims. Gah. 

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EVS

EVS

5 hours ago, drafan said:

Do the Duggs need the concept of Ugly Christmas Sweater explained?   This looked like a really lame costume party.

Some of them are dressed as bad as they look every single day. Josh is just ugly, so didn't need to try that hard.

Didn't recognize Joy at all. Had to stare at the pic. Why the pot belly on her hubby? Is that real?

Jill looked really cute. That sweater, which is actually clean, is maybe something she thinks is cool! Yay!

Henry is the cutest grandkid by a mile.

JD looked like one of those brothers who showed up at Bob Newhart's inn with roadkill. His wife looks adorable.

I see choreographer Travis Wall from SYTYCD showed up wearing a hat in the first pic. (OMG....a DANCER, plus GAY....horrors.)

I so don't want to see the "baked goods". So lots of thanks for that omission. But there's still Part 2.....

Aaaand Bin wins the contest, hands down,  for that awful turtleneck.

“Hi, I’m Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother Darryl.”

Except in this case it would be, “Hi, I’m JD, this is my brother J(blank) and this is my other brother J(blank), and this is my other brother J(blank) and this is....”

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

Henry has certainly had a turned around in his looks since his newborn days.  He's quite adorable now.

I thought he was a cutie right away.  I just liked his grumpy baby look.  Now he has curly hair and is even more appealing.

It would be nice if Ben and Jessa would stick with just the two kids, but it's pretty certain they won't.

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Temperance

Temperance

I notice that both Jessa and Joy are wearing their hair like their mom.

10 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Gothard has successfully created a sexual abuse factory. That wretched, creepy, bastard.

He and his brother (?) have both been accused of sexual misconduct. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I'm sure Sammy will mention Henry trying to make his way around the prison gate at the stairway. Maybe Henry is Sammy's silent partner in crime, because unfortunately Yaay is too busy trying to please the guards to notice leaving is an option.

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Natalie68

Natalie68

23 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. When Sierra talked about being sexually abused by a male relative, she mentioned having to face him at family parties and holiday gatherings like nothing ever happened. 

I do know ONE family that did it right once they learned of abuse.  The abuser was moved out of the house and all contact between the victim and abuser was cut completely.  It made the victim feel safe and heal.  I know there was also counseling.  I see pics of the abuser on FB with his own little girls and I wonder if they are ok.  At the time the boy was 16 and the daughter was 10.  I still worry about Smugger's daughters.  I do not buy he was just curious or his restrictive life made him all gropey.  I certainly wouldn't let any young female I know around him alone.

I am glad that Benessa have all boys right now for several reasons.  No sister momming them for one.  

I think Yay is looking to tunnel out of there.  He has a plastic spoon and determination.

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McManda

McManda

(edited)
12 minutes ago, Tasya said:

Jana is missing from this set of pictures as well...did she escape? 

Jana is with JB, Michelle, and a few of the middle kids missioncationing in Honduras, do it depends on how you define "escape".

Edited by McManda
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QuinnInND

QuinnInND

On 12/9/2018 at 11:50 AM, BitterApple said:

I agree. When Sierra talked about being sexually abused by a male relative, she mentioned having to face him at family parties and holiday gatherings like nothing ever happened. 

I had to live with my abuser and act like nothing happened until I left home at almost 15. It was hellish. 

And Smuggs looks even more nasty and awful than usual. Standing there flashing gang signs and trying to look cool or funny or whatever. 🤢

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