Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Temperance]

13 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Jessa's first two births were recorded on iphones, while Jinger's hospital birth had TLC cameras for everything up until the actual birth. I think Jessa's motivation for homebirth is pretty much the same as a lot of other homebirthers...it's on trend in her circle, and has not much do so with the show. Also, in their first book, Michelle talked about how she liked her two home births and wished she had been aware of homebirth as an option earlier because maybe she could have avoided c-sections. I imagine that the girls grew up hearing that and internalized the idea that homebirth is preferable. 

I think Jessa's the type that would opt for homebirth even if she had the best insurance in the world. 

I don't think Jessa's the type to have a homebirth even with the best insurance. She was very nervous for her first two births at home.  It is quite a custom in her culture. Fundies love homebirth, because a lot of them lack money and insurance. And then there's a cultural distrust of doctors, who are too worldy and seen as part of an establishment that fundies don't trust. She probably heard plenty about the "benefits" of homebirth from other mothers they know.

It makes me quite sad and angry that Jessa seems to have run into issues again. I hope she is okay. 

[PradaKitty]

In the picture if Jill holding Ivy, she looks like the demented nanny! 

[Patricia07]

Has there been a photo with Ben holding Ivy? I don't remember seeing one.

[Sew Sumi]

There haven't been any pics of either Ben or Jessa since the baby was born.

[MsJamieDornan]

Thanks doodlebug ! Your information is always a learning experience for me.

No Jessa pictures, very odd.

Edited May 29, 2019 by MsJamieDornan

[lascuba]

37 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I don't think Jessa's the type to have a homebirth even with the best insurance. She was very nervous for her first two births at home.  It is quite a custom in her culture. Fundies love homebirth, because a lot of them lack money and insurance. And then there's a cultural distrust of doctors, who are too worldy and seen as part of an establishment that fundies don't trust. She probably heard plenty about the "benefits" of homebirth from other mothers they know.

It makes me quite sad and angry that Jessa seems to have run into issues again. I hope she is okay. 

Homebirth can be a cult on it's own, and Jessa is nothing if not a true believer. Insurance isn't the primary issue, I don't think. 

[Lunera]

I'm surprised Ivy isn't in a pink ruffled dress with a giant flower headband. She looks a lot like Jessa.

[Minivanessa]

25 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

There haven't been any pics of either Ben or Jessa since the baby was born.

I hope it's just Jessa trying to create some buzz by being mysteriously absent from the first batch of photos, and not that there were serious complications after Ivy's birth. 

I don't know how these things work, but the US magazine story was headlined as an exclusive, and in the article the statement from Jessa and Ben was presented as "[they] told US exclusively." I take that to mean that People wasn't interested in an exclusive, so the Seewalds did a deal with US instead. I also take that as a step down in the celebrity world. 

[NotthebadVictoria]

My money says she’s waiting for the highest bidder to release her first family photo.

[Marshmallow Mollie]

If she tore and went to the hospital to be stitched up, I can see her wanting to keep that quiet. I wouldn’t information about my vagina in the world. That would be my leading theory, combined with wanting to create mystery - except the IV pole gives me pause. I wouldn’t think she would need fluids to be stitched up. Especially if they were trying to keep expenses down, they could have refused fluids.

The pictures of hours old Ivy Jane being held by Derick gross me out. 

[Churchhoney]

14 minutes ago, NotthebadVictoria said:

My money says she’s waiting for the highest bidder to release her first family photo.

Sadly, you're probably right.

But I doubt the bid's gonna be all that high. A Duggar -- the formerly "hot girl" Duggar, now commonly known as "one of the frumpier Duggars" -- has a third kid. The birth was NOT uncomplicated and everything's dicey great. Millions will be panting to see that photo. 

Wonder if Bin still has his Charles Spurgeon beard.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

Maybe Jessa decided to sell her pictures for money which is why there is no Ben or boys with Ivy. Create a little drama. 

Or maybe Jessa doesn't look so great, plain and simple.  She could be swollen or have a headache from pushing or be pale or any number of things.

The picture of Jessa, Ben and newborn Spurgeon was really awful. Maybe she learned her lesson? That picture of Jessa looking so sickly is forever on social media. I personally wouldn't want a picture so soon. 

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, Marigold said:

]That picture of Jessa looking so sickly is forever on social media. I personally wouldn't want a picture so soon. 

Amen to that. And to put it out for publication yet. Yeesh. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

This is Spurgeon after she HAD to make an appearance because the story broke that Jessa needed an ambulance. Jessa does not look well and no way Jessa wants a repeat of that picture. 

[McManda]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Sounds like something Alyssa Bates would have chosen. 

Isn't one of her girls Allie Jane? So she kinda already did.

[Wishing Well]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

...whose name has never been in the top 1000 anywhere, anytime, anyhow. 

Top 1000 worst baby names?

[Marigold]

So Michelle and Jim Bob were at the Bates wedding in Tennessee?

Michelle missed so much camera time and attention! She also is experienced in calling an ambulance using a bizarre voice. 

"mother is bleeding" 😳

[PradaKitty]

To. E fair, there weren’t many pictures of Jessa during this pregnancy, either!

That’s supposed to say To be fair. My phone has been drinking wine...

[McManda]

12 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Michelle missed so much camera time and attention! She also is experienced in calling an ambulance using a bizarre voice. 

"mother is bleeding" 😳

I can't read the "mother is bleeding" phrase on here without it sounding like Norman Bates in Psycho. 

[galaxychaser]

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

I'm surprised Ivy isn't in a pink ruffled dress with a giant flower headband. She looks a lot like Jessa.

I’m surprised Jesse didn’t write. OMG Lauren Ivy and Asa could have been best friends! 

[Sew Sumi]

1 minute ago, galaxychaser said:

I’m surprised Jesse didn’t write. OMG Lauren Ivy and Asa could have been best friends! 

Buuuuurn!

[Zella]

I feel like that's one of the more normal pictures I've seen of Lauren. Every time she's in a photo with Josiah, it seems like she is scrunching her face in a very unnatural almost scowling smile. 

[CalicoKitty]

I wonder if Jill was Jessa's "midwife".

[jcbrown]

4 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Has Jessa even been in any of the photos? Gives credence to the thought that the hospital visit was for Jessa's benefit once Ivy was born. But would have they released the newborn to be handed among the rest of the family willy-nilly while Jessa was still in hospital?

Um, they're Duggars, y'know? So, yes? Because Jesus.

[Sew Sumi]

13 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I wonder if Jill was Jessa's "midwife".

Thankfully, she was at the golf tournament with her family on Sunday and only appears to have shown up after Ivy was born. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[CalicoKitty]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Thankfully, she was at the golf tournament with her family on Sunday and only appears to have shown up after Ivy was born. 

Whew!!  Lucky Ivy.

[Heathen]

Jill must be pissed that Jessa is the first Duggar daughter (Dauggar!) to make it to three kids. 

I hereby propose that Dauggar be made an official snark term. It'll save me three seconds of typing per use. I'm an evil Heathen and have to work, y'all -- my time is valuable! 

[Barb23]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Ah, yes. Your first little girl!

Jammed full of all the lack of potential that all women have!

Why, she can be.... uh.... the wife of....uh....just about any idiot who believes most of the crap your cult spouts about how women should sit down and shut up! 

This little girl has the potential to be just like...uh....Jessa Duggar who, uh ... once created the highest dirty diaper pile ever seen east of the Mississippi!

Or...uh... she could be just like Jana Duggar! At age 28, sharing a bedroom with 10-year-olds and cleaning her parents' bedroom for room and board!

Or Tabby Paine! Shunted into corners to do the chores nobody else was interested in and then, finally -- The Lord Is So Good! -- auctioned off in marriage to an unrepentant anal rapist! 

Yes, the world is little Ivy's oyster! We can all hardly wait to see what the Lord has in store for her! So exciting! 

This.  My adult son  just came in the room & I was telling him about Ivy's birth&   that her course in life has already been set for her.  I explained by using similar examples like yours. I emphasized that it is highly unlikely she will get to go to college & work outside the home. ** My son's reaction was "how unfortunate." 

** Hoping that maybe, just maybe, her Auntie Seewalds will help her get further in life than being Ivy Homemaker, if that's what she wants.

[GeeGolly]

I wonder who was around and how it all went down. Jessa mentioned they were getting ready for church when her water broke, had 3.5 hours of labor, yet the baby was born at 6pm. It seems it took a while for labor to begin unless they were going to a midday or afternoon service.

Was most of the clan still in TN? Was it her, Ben, the boys and ??? How traumatizing for the boys if they were present and Jessa was writhing in pain. They're both too young to understand the birth process.

[ginger90]

This was posted on Sunday. It would seem the Seewald grandparent(s) had the boys. Jana thanked them in the comments.

janamduggar

Aww 🥰 Thank y’all so much for helping with that! You’re the best!!!

seewaldfamily

@janamduggar , you have quite an enchanting garden. The heirloom roses are breathtaking! 
The little helpers working with us were just adorable.

Edited May 29, 2019 by ginger90

[sigmaforce86]

51 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder who was around and how it all went down. Jessa mentioned they were getting ready for church when her water broke, had 3.5 hours of labor, yet the baby was born at 6pm. It seems it took a while for labor to begin unless they were going to a midday or afternoon service.

It seems like "Labor" is whatever they want it to be to fit their narrative and maximize press coverage.   There's the dramatic I was in labor for 48 hours where "in labor" is defined as the entire time period between I felt a twinge that may have been a cramp or may have been heartburn through here comes the baby.  Then there's the It only took 3.5 hours of labor where she decides it's defined as the time she actually spent with active timed close together contractions and pushing.  Both could technically be correct but switching it up by deciding for yourself when you say labor begins means you can tell a harrowing "it took days" story or an exciting "it was so quick the midwife/doula/family etc almost didn't get there" story.  Spinning for the media at its finest!

As for the home birth obsession - I'm convinced it's about modesty and avoiding all those male Doctors and Nurses peeking at their lady bits.  Which, as much as I think it's the reason, makes no sense - trained professionals who are male non-relative strangers that forget what you look like the day after they see you vs. semi-professional midwives "treating" you along with every female in your family viewing you splayed out and exposed.   Then having to see those same family members every day.  But they're all female so that makes it OK.  I know some ladies let their Mom's in the L&D room, some even add Mom's in Law but I don't get how the Duggar's are comfortable with having both Mom and 5 or 6 sisters all hovering over them as they push.  Seems like the opposite of modest using "but we're all female/related" as an excuse.

[Trillium]

I didn’t post any pictures of myself immediately after I had my kids, because I always swell and look like I gained 30 lbs overnight. I’m not super vain but I also want to feel good about how I look. 

Although in this case I suspect that lack of photos of the immediate family with the newest precious blessing has to do with $$$. This is basically their only source of income so they can’t be giving out photos for free. 

[Ohiopirate02]

I do believe that one of the reasons why home births are so popular in the fundie world is the patriarchal belief that women should suffer during labor.  I have heard some sects of Christians believe that labor pains are the result of Eve's causing Adam to sin way back in the Garden of Eden.  Planned cesareans and epidurals would be frowned upon or even forbidden because then the sinful woman would not experience her God given labor pains.  

[doodlebug]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do believe that one of the reasons why home births are so popular in the fundie world is the patriarchal belief that women should suffer during labor.  I have heard some sects of Christians believe that labor pains are the result of Eve's causing Adam to sin way back in the Garden of Eden.  Planned cesareans and epidurals would be frowned upon or even forbidden because then the sinful woman would not experience her God given labor pains.  

I think this is probably true, they certainly like to play up their suffering and endurance when they tell the story.  I think this is also part of the isolationism of many fundies.  They prefer to have people who have the same beliefs as they do present at the delivery so as not to contaminate the baby with non-fundiness.  The hospital where I work has several nurses who are Muslim who wear hijab or scarves (they just toss the paper cap over it if they need to go to the OR).  I can see the Duggars freaking out about having someone who is not like them present, especially someone who's beliefs are quietly but distinctly obvious from their dress.

[Marthalord]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

This was posted on Sunday. It would seem the Seewald grandparent(s) had the boys. Jana thanked them in the comments.

janamduggar

Aww 🥰 Thank y’all so much for helping with that! You’re the best!!!

seewaldfamily

@janamduggar , you have quite an enchanting garden. The heirloom roses are breathtaking! 
The little helpers working with us were just adorable.

I wonder if Jana actually starts her plants or buys the transplants at the store. It would be very impressive if she started them herself. 

[Marigold]

It's been a few days with no family picture of Jessa, ben, Spurgie, Henry and Ivy. 

Jessa learned to SELL them and not give them away on social media for free.

Just a little thinking here because I'm avoiding work...Things have changed at Duggar Enterprises.  Previously, Jim Bob got a check from TLC and doled out the money they way King Jim Bob decided.  The kids were "volunteers" and "a ministry"   This must be what Derick was incoherently blabbering about on twitter. 

Enter Jeremy who was like "WTF?". He was not working for Jim Bob and negotiated a separate contract with TLC.  Sold their own pictures etc.  

For Jessa and Ben, this was all a new concept. When Spurgie was born, Jim Bob said "get a picture out there" and she did even though she looked sick. The pictures were sold to People and the check made payable to Duggar Enterprises. Same with Henry. 

With Ivy?  I bet the Seewalds are getting paid directly now and this is why they are selectively releasing pictures. 

I don't think Jessa is very sick or there is a serious problem. Jessa and Ben took a lesson from Jeremy and Jinger. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Marigold

[lascuba]

5 minutes ago, Marigold said:

It's been a few days with no family picture of Jessa, ben, Spurgie, Henry and Ivy. 

Jessa learned to SELL them and not give them away on social media for free.

Just a little thinking here because I'm avoiding work...Things have changed at Duggar Enterprises.  Previously, Jim Bob got a check from TLC and doled out the money they way King Jim Bob decided.  The kids were "volunteers" and "a ministry"   This must be what Derick was incoherently blabbering about on twitter. 

Enter Jeremy who was like "WTF?". He was not working for Jim Bob and negotiated a separate contract with TLC.  Sold their own pictures etc.  

For Jessa and Ben, this was all a new concept. When Spurgie was born, Jim Bob said "get a picture out there" and she did even though she looked sick. The pictures were sold to People and the check made payable to Duggar Enterprises. Same with Henry. 

With Ivy?  I bet the Seewalds are getting paid directly now and this is why they are selectively releasing pictures. 

I don't think Jessa is very sick or there is a serious problem. Jessa and Ben took a lesson from Jeremy and Jinger. 

I agree about the contracts and such generally, but I don't think that's the reason that we haven't seen pictures of Jessa and Ben. They wouldn't have allowed pictures of Ivy to be posted if they were worried about exclusives. Plus, the only pictures the public really cares about are of the baby. They're not getting paid extra for pictures of people we've seen a million times.

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I agree about the contracts and such generally, but I don't think that's the reason that we haven't seen pictures of Jessa and Ben. They wouldn't have allowed pictures of Ivy to be posted if they were worried about exclusives. Plus, the only pictures the public really cares about are of the baby. They're not getting paid extra for pictures of people we've seen a million times.

This makes sense. I'm really kind of worried about Jessa. If she did hemorrhage again, it might have been worse this time around. I hope she is OK/recovering. 

I hemorrhaged after my first and third deliveries, and was told that I should not try to have more kids, which was fine as I was not planning to. But I wonder how Jessa would take this sort of news.

[bigskygirl]

10 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I wonder if Jill was Jessa's "midwife".

She might have left her bag of medical thingys with Jessa in case she was not able to make it to the birth.

[BitterApple]

I'm leaning towards Jessa being fine and holding out for a glammed up (paid) magazine spread. 

I do find it interesting she conveniently forgot to mention she ended up in the hospital for the second time after birthing at home. I'm sure that will be conveniently left out of the Counting On footage as well. She'll just ignore questions about it and let her minions defend her on social media.

[3 is enough]

I just don't understand the obsession with home births when their sainted mother had most of her babies in the hospital.

The only ones with any sense are Jinger and Kendra.  

Curious to see which way Lauren will go.

All of the Bates grandchildren have been born in hospitals/birthing centers.

The stupidity is just mind boggling.

[Absolom]

Given the horrible odds the Duggar daughters have experienced on having a successful, uncomplicated home birth, you do have to wonder when it will click in their heads that it's a really bad idea for them.  Jill and Jessa seem really, really slow figuring this out.  We'll soon see if Joy learned anything her first time around.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I'm leaning towards Jessa being fine and holding out for a glammed up (paid) magazine spread. 

I'm wondering which if any of the mags will consider them worth a substantial paycheck at this point.

Besides the fact that their audience is [too slowly for me] dwindling [and aging], in the world of "who's the celebrity now!??" there are always new things coming along to squeeze you, first, off the glossy paper page and, eventually, even off the web pages. 

Plus, when you're solely in the business of courting, marrying and pumping out the babeez, after the first baby or two you're way less interesting until you get to at least baby eight or nine, seems to me. 

So I envision them having to fight like crazy for way smaller pieces of the pie than they got before. 

It makes me feel kind of sorry for them, too. I can't imagine having to make a living by convincing people to buy occasional photos of me and my family.

Unless you're among the top 100 most famous people on the planet, that's got to be an extremely scary way of bringing in cash. Unlike work of any kind, it's utterly uncontrollable. And even for the most famous people, unless something quite unusual happens, your photos are going to be deemed less and less valuable with every year that passes. Scary.

And imagine the basis for a self-concept among these Duggar and Duggar-adjacent women -- Not only are they required to judge their worth on how many babies they can pump out (alone and unaided, if they can manage that), but they also have to judge it on whether the public and the mags that cater to the most trivial and stupid of our public tastes still want to see your picture more than they want to see a random Kardashian or the latest ex-Disney actress who's launching a singing career or entering a new relationship. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do believe that one of the reasons why home births are so popular in the fundie world is the patriarchal belief that women should suffer during labor.  I have heard some sects of Christians believe that labor pains are the result of Eve's causing Adam to sin way back in the Garden of Eden.  Planned cesareans and epidurals would be frowned upon or even forbidden because then the sinful woman would not experience her God given labor pains.  

Then the patriarchs can have their own damn babies.

That’s just sick.

[zoomama]

as far as jessa's condition, i can only imagine that she must have hemorrhaged again.

(TMI WARNING) ~~~~~~~~~~~dont know how to hide it. sorry.

my daughter did so after her first birth (actually started during labor). doctor didn't say much about it at the time. at her second delivery she started to pass huge clots and bleeding. her delivery was 3 hours after the first football sized clot passed at home. she bled for hours after and it took some serious measures to slow it down to normal post-natel bleeding. she was advised to never ever get pregnant again because both she and the future 3rd baby would probably not survive the hemorrhage. she took it very seriously and made sure she will not have children any more.

jessa should heed whatever the doctors have told her to do ....or not to do.

[Oldernowiser]

No semi-coherent trilling tweets from Ma and Pa about the latest blessing and how it’s somehow all about them?

Or was I just lucky and missed it...

[NotFundie]

1 hour ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

This makes sense. I'm really kind of worried about Jessa. If she did hemorrhage again, it might have been worse this time around. I hope she is OK/recovering. 

I hemorrhaged after my first and third deliveries, and was told that I should not try to have more kids, which was fine as I was not planning to. But I wonder how Jessa would take this sort of news.

I had the same problem.  Count me into the camp of "worried about Jessa".  We've seen lots of people holding Ivy:  Ben's mother, Ben's sister, Jill, Derick, Joy, Lauren.  But there are no pictures of Ben or of Jessa holding the baby.  It might have been a minor complication or a major one.  Either way, Duggar protocol always has them posting Mom and baby pics.  Ben is either worried about Jessa or, possibly, angry with "Doctor Jill, Medicine Woman" and the way she is endangering her siblings.  Jessa may not want her photo done now, but having no pictures of Ben and his new daughter is just... odd.

Edited May 29, 2019 by NotFundie

[xtwheeler]

On 5/23/2019 at 5:16 PM, Churchhoney said:

Oh, HIPAA does include photos. it very much includes photos. 

If a hospital posts a photo on its Facebook account that accidentally includes in the background a very distinctive (and thus easily identifiable) tattoo on a patient's arm, for example, that's a HIPAA violation unless the person has given explicit permission. 

Healthcare providers have to take precautions against patients and visitors taking and posting photos of other patients without their permission, too. They have some leeway there, because they wouldn't be directly responsible for a photo. But if the pictured person sued, the hospital or whoever would be well advised to have posted signs banning people from photographing patients other than their own families so they can demonstrate that they did what they could. 

HIPAA only applies to health care workers and a few other categories of employees who work health care-adjacent (insurance, etc.). HIPAA has no application to taking photos or videos of one's own health care or one's spouse's health care, or someone else with permission, like a professional photographer. Professional photographers have to be careful not to invade the privacy of others or to get a model's release, but that has nothing to do with HIPAA.

Not here necessarily, but just generally there seems to be the perception that HIPAA makes talking about anyone's health care in any context is forbidden. HIPAA only applies to a narrow category of people, so don't flip out that you sharing a photo of your wife in labor is a HIPAA violation. You're only going to get in trouble with your wife.

[Marigold]

In one of the pictures of Ivy, we can see Jessa's hand holding Ivy. I think Jessa is up and around. 

I really believe Jessa and Ben want to increase blog traffic, followers or sell the pictures.  Or maybe Jessa simply looks like crap (like many of us did) and doesn't want an unflattering picture posted.  You just know that Jim Bob forced The Spurgie Birth Picture due to the recent mess with Josh.

How long did she wait to post herself with Henry?  I remember Henry in the brown towel. Notice how Ivy was dressed all pretty and not in an unattractive brown bath towel like Henry? Jessa is getting her social media savvy on after watching Jinger.  😎

[Churchhoney]

23 minutes ago, xtwheeler said:

HIPAA only applies to health care workers and a few other categories of employees who work health care-adjacent (insurance, etc.). HIPAA has no application to taking photos or videos of one's own health care or one's spouse's health care, or someone else with permission, like a professional photographer. Professional photographers have to be careful not to invade the privacy of others or to get a model's release, but that has nothing to do with HIPAA.

Not here necessarily, but just generally there seems to be the perception that HIPAA makes talking about anyone's health care in any context is forbidden. HIPAA only applies to a narrow category of people, so don't flip out that you sharing a photo of your wife in labor is a HIPAA violation. You're only going to get in trouble with your wife.

I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't say that it applied to the visitors and patients. I said it applied to photos, which was the question. 

I also stated another fact: hospitals and other providers ARE at risk of being sniped at by regulators if a visitor or patient publicly posts something identifiable about a different patient and the person whose picture was posted complains. This is one reason why some providers post warnings about photographing and videoing willy nilly on their sites. Because if people get outed as patients when they don't want to be, the regulators will yell at the hospital or the provider because, as you say, they are the ones who are responsible for people's privacy being maintained when they're onsite at the provider's operation. This does happen at times.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Churchhoney