S22.E05: Week 5

[spanana]

I don't want Maks to judge again, because even before he started judging, I knew there would be cries of bias no matter what he said. So is Len related to Val and/or Pete because he was equally, if not more, of a douchebag to Keo. And while Maks was kind of douchey to Keo, I think he was the only one he was like that with. He wasn't any meaner in the tone of his comments to Wanya, Paige, Vonn, etc than he was to Doug, Nyle, Jodie, or Ginger.

 

I know people will never be able to let this go, but the judges do not, have never, and will never judge each dancer the same way. A Wanya 7 is not the same as a Doug 7. So, no, I don't find it ridiculous they got the same score. 

 

Maks was worse than Len to Keo IMO.  Because he used Doug's critique to call back to Keo/Kim and tell them why Doug's routine was better.  He also was the one that got all sanctimonious and brought up his own winning partnership for no good reason instead of just telling Keo how he could have worked around the height issue. Then he got on All Access and reamed out Keo (and everyone else) some more.  Seriously, listen to all the crap out of his mouth on All Access.  He basically lit into everyone minus the few chosen few for not working hard enough or wanting it enough or something.  Also IMO switch up week is a weird week to suddenly light into everyone since almost everyone is out of their element.  But that goes for Len too.  Why choose that week to suddenly get strict?

 

Also yes, IMO Maks was worse to the others than he was to the few chosen ones.  Because he didn't bother to critique the chosen ones other than to tell them they were wonderful.   Then he created a bull critique for Paige for no real reason.  Len did critique Paige, but not not for the same reasons as Maks, and then Len still gave her an 8.  Maks was the only one that gave her a 7.

 

But anyway, last I'll say on it.  Agree to disagree.  I haven't had a problem with Maks on the judging panel previously.  I thought he was decent when he was on last season for switch up week.  This one not so much.  He was probably instructed to bring drama since he was pretty tame his first few times.  They probably told him he couldn't judge again unless he brought the drama.  Or maybe he just wanted to sell some tickets to his summer tour.

Edited April 19, 2016 by spanana

[Callaphera]

So...Tengate? Paddlegate? I'm of the opinion that the show just wanted people to talk about the show. I don't think there was anything shady or nefarious about the change in scores. I really think that it was just producer manipulated drama in order to get the fans talking, votes rolling in for Nyle (maybe the numbers haven't been that great for him? It's possible), and hey look, it worked! And if I'm right, props to Maks and Bruno for playing it up so well with the pouty faces and two thumbs down.

 

Also, I had a good laugh at Len and Maks being the Dour Duo in the center of the judging table. I want more of that.

[Dejana]

I don't want Maks to judge again, because even before he started judging, I knew there would be cries of bias no matter what he said. So is Len related to Val and/or Pete because he was equally, if not more, of a douchebag to Keo. And while Maks was kind of douchey to Keo, I think he was the only one he was like that with. He wasn't any meaner in the tone of his comments to Wanya, Paige, Vonn, etc than he was to Doug, Nyle, Jodie, or Ginger.

 

I know people will never be able to let this go, but the judges do not, have never, and will never judge each dancer the same way. A Wanya 7 is not the same as a Doug 7. So, no, I don't find it ridiculous they got the same score. 

 

The only problem with that is the (faux?) shock from the judges when "good dancers" get eliminated "too soon", when most contestants are given a narrow range of scores, so it doesn't take very much for popularity to win out over ability (which, IMO, is totally fine, since the show allows viewer votes). With some contestants, the judges treat the scores like vanity sizing, except here it runs into the buzzsaw of the paddles for every contestant actually being on the same number scale. Whereas with vanity sizing, if people want to buy all their clothes at Old Navy and revel in the number on the tag, great, so long as they don't set foot in American Apparel and expect to fit into the same sizes.

 

I've given up listening to the judging so I missed the Nyle scoring controversy. Something like that will only help his vote totals, with outraged fans giving him an extra boost to show their support.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Dejana

[katha]

Yeah, this is when the show very obviously reveals itself as the scripted BS it is. Maks and Len were instructed to stir things up and be mean. And ta da, that's what they delivered! Maks has been a benign and mostly friendly judge until now, so this is pretty clearly producer driven. And I've seen a lot of outrage already, so mission accomplished. I thought Statler and Waldorf there and their grumpy pants routine were often right in the contents of their critiques, even though the tone of it was designed to get maximum sympathy for pros and contestants of course.

Edited April 19, 2016 by katha

[FilmTVGeek80]

 

 

Maks was worse than Len to Keo IMO.  Because he used Doug's critique to call back to Keo/Kim and tell them why Doug's routine was better.  He also was the one that got all sanctimonious and brought up his own winning partnership for no good reason instead of just telling Keo how he could have worked around the height issue. Then he got on All Access and reamed out Keo (and everyone else) some more.  Seriously, listen to all the crap out of his mouth on All Access.  He basically lit into everyone minus the few chosen few for not working hard enough or wanting it enough or something.  Also IMO switch up week is a weird week to suddenly light into everyone since almost everyone is out of their element.  But that goes for Len too.  Why choose that week to suddenly get strict?

Also yes, IMO Maks was worse to the others than he was to the few chosen ones.  Because he didn't bother to critique the chosen ones other than to tell them they were wonderful.   Then he created a bull critique for Paige for no real reason.  Len did critique Paige, but not not for the same reasons as Maks, and then Len still gave her an 8.  Maks was the only one that gave her a 7.

 

I honestly don't listen to much media for DWTS (outside of EW and TV Guide and stuff like that.) And him reaming Keo and others on some other show has no bearing on his judging on the show. Sure, he could have provided Keo with some advice, but by the time Keo came out with his excuse about the height difference they were already running over because they'd been bickering for awhile. While I think bringing up his and Meryl's partnership was a bit of a selfish boast on his part, I do think the point was relevant. There have been other height challenged pairings that haven't used that as an excuse.

 

I don't think he was worse to the others just because he didn't give them critiques. You initially made it sound like he was a jerk to everyone but his chosen few, which wasn't the case. He may not have critiqued the others as harshly, but his scores were pretty much on par with the others all night, especially Len and the scores are the thing that matter most, not the critiques. Plus, I don't think his critique for Paige was bull. I've seen a few people on this board mention the same thing he did, just because you don't agree with the assessment, doesn't make it bull. Len's reasoning was actually even more vague than Maks. Len's was basically I just wasn't feeling it. And scoring Paige one measly point lower than Ginger is not going to derail her, and if it does, her fanbase wasn't there enough to begin with. 

[crossover]

I don't find the 8 for Ginger no worse than Len (of all people) giving Nyle a 10 with his butt sticking out and absolutely horrid posture.

If Wanya had performed like Nyle, Len would've given him a 6.  But contestants with some kind of physical challenge, get major breaks on this show.  I GUESS because TPTB see how many votes and support they are receiving.  They just tailor their critiques and score accordingly.

[SophiaPehawkins]

Watching Sharna with Nyle makes me think the musicality critique to Peta was founded. His dance was soft and flowy and i'm not convinced that Peta would have gotten that out of him. Funny that Maks should mention it because I think Sharna did more on that front in a week than Peta's managed all season. I'm going to mostly blame Peta's choreography over her teaching skills, though, because it seems Peta generally tends to err on the fast and frantic side.

I'm torn on the 10s ... legit or not. Both Maks and Bruno screwed up? ... I have a hard time buying that. It reads more like Maks and Bruno wanted to give a 10, TPTB said to give a 9, and they decided they weren't going to listen. Too bad, they should know that the number that goes on the digital board is the "official" one despite what paddle the judge holds up.

Anyway, it was good but there were things he could work and I always hesitate for 10s where things could be fixed. 9s are fine.

And cynical me can't help but think the crying would mean more if Carrie Ann didn't cry every time someone danced to a slow song. Nyle is great, end of story, and I mostly always enjoy Sharna's choreography.

Not wanting to bring up this argument again, but that comment was made in week 2. All she was saying that at that point in the season and taking into consideration that he's deaf, criticizing his musicality seems inappropriate. Plus, I would take that more seriously if it came from Len or even Maks. Carrie Ann throws that word out a lot.

I do agree with you about the tens. After they came back from break, they showed Maks and Bruno both shaking their heads. Someone here also linked the Twitter posts of what's his name not looking happy after that little snafu. I do think it's a little too early to bring out the 10s. Got to give him some room for improvement, which at this point everyone has. Also agree about Carrie Ann. Whenever she cries it's like, here we go again.

[skittl3862]

My problem wasn't overly with the scores themselves, besides the ridiculous 7 for Paige.  The issue for me is that Maks was straight up nasty to almost everyone but people associated with his brother and fiancee.  I don't have a problem with Ginger getting 8's, but I do think Maks deliberately gave Paige a 7 to make sure Ginger stayed ahead of her at that point..

 

Or maybe the 4 contestants associated with his brother and fiancee just happened to be better this week and there is no conspiracy. Nyle is probably going to win. Ginger has been pimped by ABC all along, so nothing new here. And Jodie and Doug did show marked improvements from their performances last week, especially Jodie.

 

By comparison, Wanya wasn't as good as he has been. All of the judges commented on it, not just Maks. I blame Witney, who I've always felt is really immature and just got insanely lucky with Alfonso. Antonio and Von stomped their way through their performances and deserved their scores.

 

Kim will never be good and Keo only hurt that, but we all called that as soon as the partners were announced. Maks was a dick, but I don't see what purpose it serves "his people" to put down Kim, who is consistently bottom of the board.

 

As for Paige, she and Ginger have been back and forth every week, with usually a 1 or 2 point difference. Len gave her a 7 two weeks ago. It's not like Paige was consistently getting 9s to Ginger's 6s and Maks shook things up.

 

I doubt Maks was back there twirling his mustache and thinking "Aha- this one point will be the deciding factor between Ginger getting third or fourth place over Paige!" Neither of them are going to win. Wanya and Nyle have 1 and 2 in the bag. I don't think either Paige or Ginger have shown themselves to great thus far, and are riding on the coattails of their popular pros. In a more competitive season (18, 19, 20), they would be solidly middle of the pack.

[anonymiss]

Maks would make a perfect Gaston from Beauty & the Beast. The way he was preening when Len asked why the crowd didn't boo him looked like the animation come to life.

 

Aww Val and Mark having a moment after Ginger's dance. (So nice without the Houghs this season and hopefully many more to come!)

 

LOL at Karina saying "Thank you" like "Fuck you" and Sasha shamelessly clinging onto the last seconds with Paige.

 

I thought Jodie in some parts had the same snarly expression the judges criticized in Week 1. I'm glad she got praise and confidence this week, but I don't think I'm ever going to get excited by her dances. She always seems to dance like someone noticeably learning to dance (like Ginger), not a natural like Paige who doesn't ever look like she's imitating or thinking about the next steps or hesitating before certain moves.

Edited April 19, 2016 by anonymiss

[PBGamer89]

A lot of people see the top 3 as Nyle, Wanya, and Paige and it got me thinking of how similar it is to the top 3 of season 14

 

William to Nyle, the sexy eye candy who is no stranger to showing off their body who are good, but get away with a whole lot.

 

Donald to Wanya, the entertainer who knows how to get the audience engaged and knows how to play the DWTS game with a blonde pro who had never won.

 

Katherine to Paige, both partnered with Mark. Beautiful blonde natural dancers with previous training who as good as they are have a questionable fanbase.

[MsTree]

Could someone explain to me how the judges screwed up their numbers? IOW, if you just got done writing 9 on a piece of paper, how is it that 30 seconds later you think you wrote down 10?! 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm not a fan of switch up week and this season proved to be no different.

 

I love Wanya and I think Witney did a great job with Alfonso but this week's tango was just eh. Wanya's footwork was not clean enough for my taste. He looked great during the opening number. He fit right in with the pros.

 

I was sure that Kim was doomed when I saw that she was paired with Keo, who has done nothing to showcase Jodie's great natural talent. Their Viennese waltz was exactly what I thought it would be - forgettable. I put most of that on Keo because like Jodie, Kim is coordinated but the choreography never highlights either of them. On a shallow note, this performance is one of the reasons I have to take breaks from DWTS. It's one thing to have the house band butcher some top 40 hit, but Otis Redding? Come on, people. Either pay for the rights to use the original or pick another damn song. [/old person]

 

For me, there is a clear demarcation between the remaining celebs and Doug. He is obviously not as coordinated as the others. Switching partners wasn't going to change that so no surprise that he looked the same level of ehhhh. This isn't Doug's fault, but it's so annoying when Tom has to cut off the judges but we have time to watch Bill Belichick's instagram video and then Erin going on and on and on and on about Tom Brady.

 

During the opening dance, I saw Ginger and actually had no idea who she was because that's how memorable she's been for me this season. I saw her face and couldn't figure out who the hell she was and actually wondered if it was a new troupe member (only because I didn't recognize her face, not because her dancing was fantastic) because she has been such a non entity for me in her dances. Even last week when she inexplicably got 9s, to me that was more about the spectacle of the scenery and the background dancers than her actual dancing. I loooooathe any time we have to watch a jealous husband/boyfriend or protective daddy come monitor rehearsal, even when it's joking. I find it gross. I didn't enjoy this salsa (and what the hell was with Mark's Michael Jackson moves at the beginning?). It was too frantic and although I know nothing about salsa, it felt like flash over substance.

 

Antonio is on my list of people who need to go in the next few weeks (along with Doug). He is not a great dancer so he shouldn't be showing up for rehearsal an hour late. I felt like there wasn't enough cha cha. The shiny jacket without a shirt gave me an MC Hammer feel.

 

Paige and Sasha's rumba was lovely. She is such a beautiful dancer and it's such a nice change of pace to see that after celebs like Doug do their routines. Normally I try to ignore most of what Erin says, but it was nice to hear her defend Paige when Len said she needed to be more emotional, saying that if she had shown half thveat emotion when she competed on the show, Maks would have been thrilled.

 

Von and Lindsay's jive was in the bottom for me. This felt like one of the slower jives and his footwork was still pretty sloppy and leaden. But I will say that he mostly knew the steps and he seemed like he was having a really good time, so he gets points for that.

 

Sharna and Nyle's Viennese waltz was greatly aided by the smoke, the backlighting, and the audience members' heads hiding his feet. He's not nearly as clunky with his feet as Doug or Von, but hiding his feet definitely worked to his advantage because he's not always light or precise with his feet either. Seriously, judges? A 10? And then Maks and Bruno accidentally gave him a 10?

 

Jodie and Val's paso doble is what I hope for during switch up week. She was already a good (and underscored) dancer in the previous weeks but Val gave her good choreography and pushed her. He also didn't choreograph the routine to show himself off. She looked confident and comfortable and happy during the entire routine.

 

I'm torn in my opinions about the comments Maks made. On the one hand, I think it should be pointed out when the pros don't choreograph enough content for the style they are assigned. And I also think that it should be pointed out when there is too much arsing around during the routines. Those kinds of criticisms are fair game as far as I'm concerned. But it needs to be done consistently. It's not fair when one person gets called out for doing it one week and someone else doesn't get criticized for it the next week (or hell, even the same week). So in theory, I support Maks making perfectly valid criticisms. But where he lost me was when he kept making things about himself as well as letting his obvious bias show. Yes, Maks, please remind us that you danced with Meryl. Gawd.

Edited April 19, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I see Mark and Ginger are representing the Banana boys.

"All the good colors were gone!"

 

As Doug was talking about his memory problems, I had two thoughts: 1) Peta probably is a good fit for him after working with Tommy Chong, and 2) NFL concussion scandal.

I started thinking about concussions when he talked about his memory problems. He's 53, not 93. All the recent stuff about the cumulative effects of concussions, especially in football, is really scary.

 

I agree that if Antonio doesn't have time to do the show properly, then he shouldn't do it. Making your partner wait an hour for you to show up for practice is a dick move.

[tessa]

Please explain the scoring discrepancy to me. I just watched the dance of Nyle's and Sharna's on youtube. Maks and Bruno not only held up the 10 paddle but said TEN - now why was there the problem. Are these not scored live as I've always thought but previously to the taping?

[calipiano81]

Please explain the scoring discrepancy to me. I just watched the dance of Nyle's and Sharna's on youtube. Maks and Bruno not only held up the 10 paddle but said TEN - now why was there the problem. Are these not scored live as I've always thought but previously to the taping?

After a couple finishes their dance and before they receive comments, the judges all write down their scores on a scoresheet, which gets handed off to a producer. Those are considered the official scores if there is ever a discrepancy with the number paddles the judges hold up.

[PBGamer89]

Maks talked to the press line and basically said he and Bruno told Len to write down 10, but because it was so loud after the dance, Len thought they said 9.

 

I still think it's fishy. This has been 22 seasons now and apparently these things still happen. I think during the lovefest of his judging and the crying from CAI, they changed their minds and wanted to make it a 10 and thought they could get away with it.

 

That or Maks told the truth and Len misheard, all the more reason to invest a little money into a digital pad the judges to enter in a number each instead of writing things down where it leads itself to get info wrong, especially when only 1 judge writes it down.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I must be stupid (or I put too much faith into the show spending money on technology) because I thought in early seasons, the judges had to push a button on the table with the number for the score they were submitting.

 

I don't know why each of the judges can't write their own numbers down.

[alexa]

I just don't understand why they have Keo around most seasons.  Other pros only get a chance once in a while and yet they won't give up on Keo, but he hasn't shown anything that makes most viewers feel he needs to be there.  He rarely has good connection with his star, and he hasn't really shined at choreography.  I think he just hampers whoever is chosen to dance with him.  So, I didn't really mind the criticism last night--if he didn't do a VW, then I am fine with that being an issue with some of the judges.

[TeeMo]

I think my biggest issue with Maks going in so hard on Keo was that it is switch up week. If Keo and Kim were the regular pairing, I think it is a fair criticism to say "Suck it up and work with the height difference, pal. That's your job." But they had 4 days together and Kim has been dancing with someone who is elf sized up until this point so having her adjust her hold would be a fair amount of work just to go back to her short partner next week. Maybe Keo figured he'd choreograph American smooth and just avoid the issue and the adjustment. I am no fan of Keo and think he needs to be demoted to the troupe but I think switch up week is not the time for this kind of intense criticism. Everyone is already on edge and uncomfortable. Suddenly becoming sticklers for content just makes the whole night unpleasant.

After sleeping on it, I also think I wish the following pairings could be permanent:

Ginger/Mark

Jodie/Val

Nyle/Sharna

Doug/Peta

I liked all four of them better with their switch up partners.

[mtlchick]

 

That or Maks told the truth and Len misheard, all the more reason to invest a little money into a digital pad the judges to enter in a number each instead of writing things down where it leads itself to get info wrong, especially when only 1 judge writes it down.

 

I'm  willing to believe that.  When Maks and Bruno held up 10s, Len was giving them a look that said "HOLD ON A MINUTE THEN!" It's not like it's has not happened before: CAI has given the wrong paddle to the score a few times though she realizes it when it happens and immediately owns up to it.  It was human error.  It's not an Olympic skating scoring disaster, but enough to show that the system they use is broken.

Edited April 19, 2016 by mtlchick

[Primetimer]

And guest judge Maks Chmerkovskiy issues some smackdowns to his fellow pros.

Read the story

[OakGoblinFly]

I agree -- totally enjoyed Wanya's dance! As for Len criticizing Keo and Kim, I do not tune into this show to hear that kind of meanness and basically yelling ugliness from Len at Keo. You can be critical when need be -- specifics about the Viennese waltz -- but his level of vitriol made me very, very uncomfortable. Shut up, Len.

 

 

Len has been extra grouchy this season and it was on full display last night.  While I do agree with him in the fact that a lot of the "ballroom" dances lack actual ballroom content - and it should be mentined - however, you shouldn't bash the celebrity for that; that falls on the choreographer.  There is a huge disconnect between what Len wants to see and what the powers-that-be want to to televise (meaning Len wants to see "traditional" ballroom and the powers-that-be want a fusion).

I totally agree with Max that's it not fair to the couples that try to stay true to their assigned dance no matter how difficult it's technique is and then the judges reward those who just "entertain" or "make them smile". However the judging on technique consistency sailed seasons ago.

There has been some amazing Viennese Waltzes on this show ( Mel B comes to mind) and I kept waiting for it and Keo's choreography was really lacking VW.

 

 

Which is why I always thought there should be two scores (five points each) - one for "performance" and one for "technique/content" 

 

While I don't generally like Sharna's choreography, she creats some beautiful Viennese Waltzes.

Watching Sharna with Nyle makes me think the musicality critique to Peta was founded. His dance was soft and flowy and i'm not convinced that Peta would have gotten that out of him. Funny that Maks should mention it because I think Sharna did more on that front in a week than Peta's managed all season. I'm going to mostly blame Peta's choreography over her teaching skills, though, because it seems Peta generally tends to err on the fast and frantic side.

 

 

To be fair, I think this is the first "soft" dance that Nyle has been assigned - 

[heythere]

I know next to nothing about the technical side of any of these dances, but I really thought Jodie's dance was better than Nyle's.  He looked kind of clunky in a lot of places (even to my uneducated eyes).

[OakGoblinFly]

I wish Nyle and Jodie could stick with Sharna and Val for the rest of the season.

 

 

I don't mind Nyle with Peta, though I agree.  Jodie really got shafted when she was assigned Keo (nothing against him, I think he's lacking in the creativity and teaching departments).  Jodie lived up to her potential last night and it makes me sad that she may get the boot way too soon (which is why I think Maks mentioned Sabrina).

It's official: the problem is not the dancer, it's Keo.  Not that it wasn't a nice dance, but that was supposed to be a waltz?  Meanwhile Jodie gets Val and BOOM!  She becomes the contender she should have been in week 1.

 

The one nitpick I  have about Nyle: his turns.  When he comes out of them, he's off balance.  He almost knocked into Sharna at one point. But I had a feeling the ten was coming tonight and damn it was not deserved.

 

I think Len awarded the 10 because Nyle and Sharna's dance was a (mostly) traditional Viennese Waltz; and with him being extra grouchy for lack of ballroom content in the ballroom dances I think he was just happy (delirious maybe?) that a couple was dancing an actual ballroom dance with recognizable steps.

 

I notice that about Nyle's turns as well - I wonder if that's becuase he's looking for Sharna for his next dance cue.

Paige and Sasha were my favorites. Watching Paige dance makes me happy, and her lines were as gorgeous as her smile. 

 

I still find Paige a little to hectic/frantic when she dances; I think she's still in her head too much; she needs to let go and trust her partner

 

She is very pretty, she reminds me a lot of Faith Ford - and that's a good thing.

[seacliffsal]

I loved Maks as a judge last night. He actually spoke in real sentences that made sense as compared to the babbling and nonsensical comments that Carrie Ann makes as well as the grandstanding overly dramatic comments that are also nonsensical that Bruno makes. The only judge I consistently like is Len, so to have 'another' Len just made me so happy. I have always preferred the traditional elements of the dances and don't want every dance to be a contemporary or jazz.

I also was glad that Keo received the critiques-maybe a bit harsh to Kim, but he really just gave excuses which were exposed when he did the examples of the two different holds as I felt that Kim looked lovely in the traditional Viennese Waltz hold.

[RedFiat]

Ginger/Mark

 

I am so much more impressed with Mark when he dances with Paige. I think there's a real connection with her. Sasha really disappointed me.  

[crowceilidh]

 

I just don't understand why they have Keo around most seasons.  Other pros only get a chance once in a while and yet they won't give up on Keo, but he hasn't shown anything that makes most viewers feel he needs to be there.  He rarely has good connection with his star, and he hasn't really shined at choreography.  I think he just hampers whoever is chosen to dance with him.  So, I didn't really mind the criticism last night--if he didn't do a VW, then I am fine with that being an issue with some of the judges.

 

I don't like Keo's choreo or his dance style and I particularly dislike the way he holds his body and walks, but I really liked his dance with Kim.  I thought their costumes hit a really good note for a VW.  Embarrassingly (after 21 seasons of watching this show) it looked overall Viennese Waltz-y to me - I thought they were going to get good comments and good scores and was surprised to find out that they hadn't been dancing a VW.  So, I guess what I'm saying is that, sadly, Rob Wade is probably right, for the majority of the audience the "appearance/aroma" of a certain dance is sufficient.

 

Kim was over-acting a bit, but they looked elegant and lovely together.

 

That said, marking down a dance for the pro's choreo is the lowest of the low.  Always has been, always will be.  It seemed like a concerted gang-up on Keo which I think should be off limits.  If tptb keep casting a pro despite his clear unsuitability for the job, being nasty to him is not going to improve anything.  I would like it if they marked a pro's choreo as well because then that is fairly in the running, but they don't and so shut up.

 

Jodie's dress was godawful.

 

Paige is too powerful in her moves.

 

Von, Antonio and Doug are all dispensable.  Although I thought Doug did a credible job on a Doug-like level with the opening number.

[Archery]

I notice that about Nyle's turns as well - I wonder if that's becuase he's looking for Sharna for his next dance cue.

 

He may have balance issues due to his deafness. 

 

Maks talked to the press line and basically said he and Bruno told Len to write down 10, but because it was so loud after the dance, Len thought they said 9.

 

How does that explanation make sense, since Len held up a 10, which apparently he also wrote down, and Maks and Bruno held up 10s but had written down 9s?

LOL at Karina saying "Thank you" like "Fuck you"

 

That was quite awesome.

[Thadeeeyus]

I still find Paige a little to hectic/frantic when she dances; I think she's still in her head too much; she needs to let go and trust her partner

 

She is very pretty, she reminds me a lot of Faith Ford - and that's a good thing.

 

She reminds me of Kendra - not a good thing. ;) 

 

I like Paige fine, but I wonder if the show is going to going to let her succeed.  Her dance experience is showing - she really is the best out there IMO, but the show definitely isn't pimping her.  Maybe to give room for an improvement arc? 

 

Maks' comments/scores don't bother me at all.  I don't have a favorite pro so I don't dislike him or his brother just because, but I don't think Maks or any judge, guest or regular, can give scores that aren't in the script. 

 

I liked Jodie better last night, but that dance still seemed rough.

 

Last night was the first time I've liked Kim, but dh and I were both making negative comments on the choreo during the dance.

 

Last night was also the first time I've paid attention to Keo's dancing.  He made a very good impression in that opening number. :)

Edited April 19, 2016 by Thadeeeyus

[boyznkatz]

GINGER: Both she and her husband are, in a word, thirsty. It's not a great look for anyone, but especially them. I also noticed how the judges were effusive in their praise with nary a word of criticism, and then gave them 8s. Makes me think some producers talked to the judges about "keeping it in the family" via ABC.

 

I agree. Both of them are annoying. Why is her husband always out front and center? She is on the show, not him. Maybe he is trying to get on next season. When the bottom feeders like Doug and Kim are gone, expect the 10s to start flowing for her so she can be in the finals.

Edited April 19, 2016 by boyznkatz

[Saylii]

How does that explanation make sense, since Len held up a 10, which apparently he also wrote down, and Maks and Bruno held up 10s but had written down 9s?

I believe all the judges share one piece of paper in which they write down the "official" score. It sounds like Maks and Bruno conferred on their scores, agreed to give 10s, then Maks told Len who wrote it down as 9's instead of writing it themselves. Maybe there was additional conversation where Maks said "If you [Len] are giving him a 10, we are too. Otherwise 9's." I could see something like that getting lost in all the audience noise. Any other way and I just don't see how 10 turns into 9 on accident.

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 5 .

 

3a.  Jodie & Val (Keo) –  thought Jodie looked much sharper, focused, and it seemed she got out a lot of aggression and angst out with this routine; her movements didn't feel and look labored as in previous weeks as well.  Her flamenco arms, hands and fingers were smooth, effortless and relaxed.  Skirt work looked nice and it was finally good to be able to see her move confidently around the floor.  Think her stomping, or appels, could've been a bit stronger, but hoping she can build on this routine in the coming weeks.

 

2b.  Ginger & Mark (Val) – Thought this routine was better than her samba, as her moves seem slightly sharper and believable.  I also like her free arm/hand in this number compared to the ballroom (foxtrot) as well.  I liked the production setup, the clubby atmosphere in the number; but instead of the beginning dialogue, thought it be best that they first lock eyes across the club before commencing.  Still think Ginger needs to strengthen her core, but it was a fun number to watch.

 

2b.  Wanya & Witney (Lindsay) – thought that the beginning grip with Witney felt firm and proper.  Thought he showed sharp, stacatto movement, and that his upper half was moving well with his lower half at the top.  Think Wanya opens up a bit on his left side in promenade hold (inside right hip should touch with Witney's left), and that he needed to keep Witney in hold a bit more firmer.  Maintaining a consistent emotional tone throughout the routine (facial expressions were varied) would be good, but a nice routine nonetheless.

 

2a.  Nyle & Sharna (Peta) – liked the swaying moment at the beginning as it set a nice tone to the routine.  Thought the shadow moments with Sharna were nice and that he had a great lyrical movement throughout.  Still think he needs to work on his posture (upper half is tense, esp shoulders), and that he's capable of breathing through his arm extensions a bit more.  Nonetheless, it was a heartfelt performance and hope to see similar routines down the stretch.

 

2a.  Paige & Sasha (Mark) – thought her performance had sparkle and glow; enjoyed watching the extensions with her arms and the hip action in the opening outs.  Think she needs to be a bit careful that she keeps a straight vertical axis when doing the spins (she tilts), and that she could've caressed the wooden floor a bit more at the top.  Nonetheless, I liked seeing this raw version of Paige (and the light moment at the end) and hope she can continue to dig deep to shine even more in her upcoming routines.

 

[ari333]

Loved the opening.

[ari333]

OUt of all the people on earth, they cant get someone to guest judge who is not related to the current contenders?

[iMonrey]

After three or four seasons of this, can we just agree that Switch Up Night is a failed experiment and move on? We always wind up with underwhelming performances the judges are critical of, for the most part. I think the gimmick looks better on paper than in practice, and was probably designed with Derek in mind anyway ("I'd like to see what Derek could so with so-and-so").

 

Maks has been a benign and mostly friendly judge until now, so this is pretty clearly producer driven.

 

You may be on to something because the past few times Maks has guest-judged, he's been the opposite of Len, pointing out that this is not a real ballroom competition and how it's ridiculous to judge as if it were. That's always been his gripe about the judges since he started as a pro. Tonight he did a complete 180 and acted like everyone had to play be strict ballroom rules. 

 

What on earth is going on with Antonio's eyes? Every time he's looking into the camera he keeps widening his eyes over and over again, as though he's trying to hypnotize the audience or something. It freaks me out. 

 

I don't know a proper Viennese Waltz from Adam but I did think Kim and Keo spent a lot of time posing and bending before they did any actual dancing.

 

I kind of felt like the rehearsal clip of Nyle clarifying that he was in a 10-year relationship with a woman was a gratuitous attempt on the show's part to reassure the audience he's straight. 

[ari333]

Switch up blows. imo

[KLovestoShop]

Unfortunately, Jodie will probably lose because she's saddled with a very incompetent partner, and I hope the judges realize this.  I think as an individual dancer, Keo is great, but as a choreographer and teacher, he's way below par.  

[ari333]

The 9s vs 10s for Nyle was weird.

Unfortunately, Jodie will probably lose because she's saddled with a very incompetent partner, and I hope the judges realize this.  I think as an individual dancer, Keo is great, but as a choreographer and teacher, he's way below par.  

 

I kind of need Keo for some diversity. Otherwise it is all blondes and Russians (eastern Europeans?) and Australians. .

Edited April 19, 2016 by ari333

[truthaboutluv]

A day late but what the hell....

 

Wanya/Witney - I thought there was way too much space between their upper bodies and that likely affected Wanya's frame. I agreed with the judges, that Wanya's topline was not what it should have been. I thought his arm was not extended enough and he didn't have the sharp, awkward neck turn of the Tango frame. Still a decent performance. 

 

Kim/Keo - If I'm being perfectly honest, Vienesse Waltz is a dance I have never truly figured out what specifics the judges are looking for. As opposed to, say Samba, Cha Cha, Quickstep, etc. So that said, I thought the performance was very sweet but yes, it definitely should have had more moments in-hold. That said, while Nyle/Sharna had way more in-hold moments, they seemed to have just as many out of hold moments similar to Kim and Keo's dance and the judges loved that. So I'm sort of confused. Also, while I have never been a fan of Keo as a Pro and I don't mind Len being critical of the dance, I hate when he gets into that yelling mode and speaks to the Pros like they're children. It feels disrespectful and rude to me and it is uncomfortable to watch, to be honest. 

 

Doug/Peta - It was okay. I thought he did well with what Peta gave him and I think she choreographed well to his strengths. His frame was by no means amazing but I think this dance and his Paso prove that his strength may be the sharp, staccato-like dances. 

 

Ginger/Mark - I really did not like this. At first, I thought it was the choreography but I watched it again and I feel like the dance was loaded with Salsa content so that wasn't it. Ginger's movement was the problem, IMO. Something about her steps, particularly the bottom part of her body just looked very awkward and weird. I honestly couldn't tell what her feet were really doing at one point. It was just a strange number... Meanwhile, I will need her husband to take several, and I mean several seats. Dude is coming across as so thirsty to be on camera. I'm starting to get the disturbing feeling that we'll probably see him on the show next season. Nevermind I have no idea who the hell he is but when has that ever stopped this show. 

 

Antonio/Cha Cha - Antonio is a natural mover and actually has pretty good natural ability. However, he did look clearly under-rehearsed and that package did him no favors. It really did feel like someone hoping to get by on some charm rather than putting in the work and effort and I hate that some think that's how the football players are because Donald worked hard while he was on the show, as did Hines, as did Emmitt, etc. I disagreed with Len that there wasn't enough Cha Cha. I thought it was a pretty solid Cha Cha. I hated Karina's costume, though. Again, I'm no prude but I'm kind tired of the female Pros practically being in underwear. The closeup shot of Karina's ass showed that this was just lace. 

 

Paige/Sasha - I liked this and thought it was a sweet performance. Paige is a very, very good dancer. That said, I believe her on the not looking at the partners in the eyes and not trusting them because there was very little chemistry between her and Sasha in that dance. However, I completely disagreed with Maks that there was only one Rumba step in the dance. I saw way more than that. That said, yes, I would have liked a bit more. 

 

Von/Lindsay - It was okay. He definitely looked like he was having fun but it sort of felt a bit careful and safe to me. This time, I agreed with Maks on just wanting something more from Von. I have to say, after five weeks, I think Antonio is the more natural mover between him and Von but neither is exactly lighting up the ballroom in my opinion. 

 

Nyle/Sharna - This was a beautiful performance. Nyle lost the frame a few times and I thought his arms extensions weren't always as fluid and graceful as they should have been but still very gorgeous to watch. His spotting on some turns were also slightly shaky. 

 

Jodie/Val - I could see how determined Jodie was and I definitely think she went full out with this. That said, I didn't love it and I think it was the choreography. I don't know what it is but Val's stuff is just not wowing me this season at all. It was a decent enough Paso with good content but meh...

[backformore]

Maks talked to the press line and basically said he and Bruno told Len to write down 10, but because it was so loud after the dance, Len thought they said 9.

 

I still think it's fishy. This has been 22 seasons now and apparently these things still happen. I think during the lovefest of his judging and the crying from CAI, they changed their minds and wanted to make it a 10 and thought they could get away with it.

 

That or Maks told the truth and Len misheard, all the more reason to invest a little money into a digital pad the judges to enter in a number each instead of writing things down where it leads itself to get info wrong, especially when only 1 judge writes it down.

But why are they conferring?  Why should anyone TELL Len what score to give?   Are they doing the mental addition and comparison, to ensure each week that rankings are what they are "supposed"  to be? 

They give the illusion that they are each judging independently of each other, but I guess that illusion is gone now. 

[ari333]

But why are they conferring?  Why should anyone TELL Len what score to give?   Are they doing the mental addition and comparison, to ensure each week that rankings are what they are "supposed"  to be? 

They give the illusion that they are each judging independently of each other, but I guess that illusion is gone now. 

 

 

THIS ^^^^^ !!!!!!

[LotusFlower]

But why are they conferring?  Why should anyone TELL Len what score to give?   Are they doing the mental addition and comparison, to ensure each week that rankings are what they are "supposed"  to be? 

They give the illusion that they are each judging independently of each other, but I guess that illusion is gone now.

There's no way they're conferring. For one thing, there's no time. Secondly, the camera's usually on them, and we don't see it (discussing, whispering). If they're talking at all, it's always after the scores are handed over, as you can see Carrie Ann hand the slip of paper to a runner almost immediately.

All of this means that Maks' explanation makes sense, and it also explains why Maks and Bruno looked so confused and didn't like the resolution - their intended scores weren't counted. But Len screwed up, so what are you gonna do? I kinda find it shocking that they relied on voicing their scores to Len in such a loud ballroom instead of the the oh-so-simple method of writing it down. I'm guessing that won't happen again.

[vavera4ka]

I understood it that Len is the guy who submits all the scores. People tell him, he writes/circles them and submits it to the producers. Maks told him to put 10's for him and Bruni, but it was too loud and Len heard 9's.

[Alapaki]

But why are they conferring?  Why should anyone TELL Len what score to give?   Are they doing the mental addition and comparison, to ensure each week that rankings are what they are "supposed"  to be?

They give the illusion that they are each judging independently of each other, but I guess that illusion is gone now.

 

 

I think this misunderstands Maks' "explanation" (which I think is bullshit, but that's another story).

 

I take Maks to be saying that Len was keeping the scoresheet for the entire table.  Each Judge would then report their score to Len, who would write it down and hand the sheet in to a production person.  

 

That is, Len and Bruno weren't telling Len to vote 10, but they were telling Len to record their scores as 10.  And Len supposedly misheard and recorded their scores as 9s.

 

Again, I don't buy it.  But, FWIW, I think that's the argument.

 

And, assuming for the sake of argument, Maks' recitation of events is correct . . . why the fuck should the "official" Judges' Score total be subject to the vagaries of a septuagenarian's faulty hearing instead of what the actual Judges say they scored?  If Maks and Bruno say their original scores were 10s, why not just correct the graphic rather than docking Nyle 2 points because Len had shit in his ears?

[realdancemom]

It seems that the judges sometimes get harsher during switch-up week.  I don't know why since that's when everyone is still getting used to new partners.  The worst season was Alfonso's season.  Not only did they get new partners but they gave them styles that are not normally on the show, e.g. disco, burlesque, etc.  I remember Witney crying after she did disco with Michael because they received 5's.  Peta looked scared because it looked like she was going to be dropped by Johnathan and Emma did say that the judges were being mean that day.

 

So I'm not surprised that the script for this week was that Maks and Len were going to call out pros that broke the rules too much.  I think they did it this week so that Len wasn't the only judge being booed.  That did happen in previous weeks.  Bruno and CAI were not going to do that.  Last season was worse because the pros were breaking rules all over the place and nobody including Julianne, who was supposed to be the ballroom pro, said anything. 

 

So I'm o.k. with pros being called out for their choreography not matching the style.  The only one I slightly disagree with is Paige and Sasha.  Previously, a lot of rumbas have looked like contemporaries.  Since Maks already called out other pros, I specifically looked for rumba content.  Whether there was enough rumba content could be argued.  I think there was enough and I definitely think there was more than one rumba step which is what Maks said.

 

Other comments:  Ginger's salsa looked too frantic and messy.  Nyle did not deserve 10's.  I did like the routine because we saw a softer side of Nyle.  Sometimes, Peta's choreography also looks frantic.  I like Lindsay better with both Von and Wanya.  Von because she's taller and Wanya because she has more chemistry with him than Witney did.  Jodie was better with Val and wish they were permanent partners.  I wish Ginger was with Keo because I don't like her personality.  Even though, Kim and Keo's dance wasn't a VW, I will agree with CAI that she showed a steamy side that wasn't present in her other dances. 

 

I think all the football players have attitude problems.  It is very disrespectful and rude to show up late to rehearsals.  If you're going to do that, then at least, set the appointment one hour later.  It's gross that Von farts in front of Lindsay and Witney.  And Doug needs to control his temper if he doesn't get a step.     

[ChicksDigScars]

I did feel a bit of bias coming from Maks, and I think he was a little too sharp in some of his comments, but it was nice to have a counterpoint to Carrie Ann's gibberish nonsense and Bruno's hyper dramatic commentary. It was interesting that he and Len had the same score on almost every dance, and it was usually lower than Bruno's and Carrie Ann's scores. 

 

It makes me wonder. Are they "testing the waters" with Maks, so that Len can actually retire for good? The judging had lost something the past couple of seasons with Mary Sue Sunshine sitting between Carrie Ann and Bruno. They do need that cranky, cantankerous judging element...although maybe not as cantankerous as he was last night with Tootie...sorry, I mean, Kim.  And PLEASE never consider that horrible woman from Dance Mom's. She was horrific and not in a good or entertaining way. Maks can handle the "Grumpy Judge" mantle, because he does have a fan base who will still love him no matter what. The Houghs have that kind of fan base, and the Chmerkovsky's have that kind of fanbase.  The only negative with Maks taking Len's spot, is the same problem that people had with Julianne. She was judging her brother and Mark, who is like a brother. Maks is judging his brother and his fiancee...and ex-fiancee. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by ChicksDigScars

[SnarkyTart]

So we have Doug at 52 (9.1711% of the total) and Kim at 60 (10.5820%)  and Antonio and Von barely ahead at 61 (10.7584%) for the total of the 2 weeks scores.  I'm not so sure Doug's going just yet.  And I think running order and a bit of overscoring might have saved Jodie (62 points, 10.9347).  This is close! 

Thanks for doing the maths for us :-)

 

It sort of confirms a suspicion in the back of my mind.  My guess is that Jodie hasn't been doing all that well in the fan voting (and I blame Keo a lot for that).  There's been a pattern before of the judges lavishing praise on a contestant when the producers know she/he's about to get the boot.  Having Len, and especially Maks, rip the hell out of Keo's choreography tonight will also help make Jodie's potential shock elimination next week look more understandable to viewers.   I already suspected we were seeing producer manipulations even before Maks made the non sequitur comparing Jodie to Sabrina's shock elimination.

 

The above conspiracy theory was completely enhanced by the obvious shenanigans with Nile's 10-Gate scores last night.  My partner and I both thought immediately of the time when Paula Abduhl gave a detailed critique of contestant Jason Castro's song on American Idol's season 7 before he performed it.  In those days, American Idol was still such a rating's juggernaut that the controversy got reported and analyzed in all the major entertainment publications...Rolling Stone, Entertainment Weekly, MTV, People, etc.  What happened last night on DWTS will probably pass mostly unnoticed by the media, though it sure would have been fun to see it.  I feel robbed of that entertainment. 

[boyznkatz]

Why oh why, do they continue with Switch Up Week? They got a 1.6 rating for the 18-49 demo Monday. OUCH. I hope Rob Wade finally gets the memo and shelves this crap for good. I guess Maks isn't much of a ratings magnet, either. I sure hope he never comes back.

 

If they have to have guest judges, get a real star and not some has-been who is way too full of himself.

[truthaboutluv]

I forgot to mention it but even though I had read it, I was still stunned when Maks really did refer to himself in the third person...wtaf? Who does that?

[vibeology]

Nyle is lucky that Bruno and Maks ended up giving him nines because if he'd gotten three 10s people would be complaining that he was over-scored and the show was pandering to him. The outcome, while not intentional, is far better for him. There are many weeks to come (because I do think Nyle is here until the final four at least) and he's got time to earn 10s. Also, he didn't deserve three 10s. His posture needs work (those shoulders were up by his ears a few times) and he comes out of his turns all messy and awkward. That's fine; there's a lot of time to make improvements and he's still one of the stronger dancers in the group, but a near perfect score now would have been a joke.

 

Paige's dance was beautiful and certainly had more than one step of rumba content. Sasha did a great job getting her comfortable with an intimate dance with a new partner on very little time. There were moments in that dance where she radiated joy. It wasn't consistent throughout, but for a new partnership, I thought it was very strong. She was genuinely underscored there and its a shame because imagine if she makes the finals. Her dance facility and Mark's creativity merged for a freestyle would be spectacular. I don't think she'll have the fanbase to win this thing, but I want to see her freestyle so bad! Don't take this from me America! Let Paige freestyle!

 

Wanyá wasn't as strong with Witney as usual but I also think Tango was always going to be a less exciting performance from him. It's a little slower and more serious and he's in hold for most of it and that's just not taking advantage of his performance skills. Von also got the dance I would have always predicted would be his worst for switch-up and that kind of sucks. If you're a tall pro, odds are your jive will still look hot but for an amateur being tall and jiving aren't mixable things. The thing about Von is he never really looks like he's trying too hard during the dance, but afterwards he's a sweaty mess so I know the dances are kicking his ass. I think he needs a little more tension or something so he looks more active and engaged during the dance.

 

Jodie wasn't every thing I hopes she could be, but it was crazy just how much she improved with a few days with Val. No question, Keo is the problem there. She was more in the performance and more importantly, Val gave her moments to connect with the camera, connect with him, perform on her own and command the stage. What a difference a little thoughtful choreography makes. I really do believe knowing how to dance to the cameras is half the battle on this show. Its a balance between drawing the viewing audience in and not appearing like thirsty beasts.

 

Ginger (and husband, apparently). Sorry, I don't like her with Val and I don't like her with Mark and I don't think there's another male pro better at playing the game of this show than these two at this point. I just think her dancing if frantic and her feet are a mess. That costume gave her some shimmy but she mostly made me think of Lisa from Dirty Dancing trying to learn to dance and looking so awkward.

 

Antonio is clearly not putting the hours in and its showing. Doug's dance was better than his and deserved the higher score and that's very bad for Antonio. Kim worked what she was given but again, Keo is the problem here.