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  1. Of course everyone is jumping to berate her. They hate her and for good reason. Not one of those people need to give her the benefit of the doubt and not one of them - for good reason - believe she truly loves Wiley. And I think Monica offering to get Nelle a second opinion and getting her information was good enough. She didn't need to be nice to her but she did offer her information. I think the only one that had to be gentler with her - because for now he has to share co-parenting duties with her - was Michael, if for the only reason that it would be easier to get what he wanted if he was nicer to her, not because she deserved being treated kindly. While Michael et al. were strident about the surgery Nelle was just as strident the other way refusing to even consider it. She never talked about getting a second opinion just some crap about stuff she'd read on the internet. Just because Monica is a surgeon and is related to Michael doesn't mean she wants to cut into her toddler great-grandson for shits and giggles. Not one of them wants the surgery. They just believe it's his best option. Nelle has the risk angle covered. And they all explained how the surgery would benefit Wiley. Her being desperate to get to Wiley and take off with him doesn't prove to me that she has any real feelings for him. Her being desperate to possess him to me is for the same reason she handed Michael a dead baby - because she wanted to punish him and the rest of his family. She doesn't want Michael to have him no matter what. It's not about some overwhelming love for her son. As she said to Carly on Friday, she doesn't want them to "win." I'll admit because Nelle sucks, I don't find myself having any sympathy for her. I feel the same about Carly. I didn't have any sympathy when she thought Donna might have health problems and I don't any sympathy for her now with her concern over Wiley. They're both shitty human beings/characters, so I feel no reason to feel sympathy for them. I get that Nelle had a traumatic experience because of what her father did and is, if she can even be believed, is still in pain but her using that as an excuse just goes to show IMO that she can't step outside of herself and think about what her son needs. This isn't about her. It's about what Wiley needs. Her past experience doesn't mean Wiley will be harmed with this surgery and it shouldn't be the main factor in decision-making over what they do with Wiley now. Why would Monica need to be reported to the board? That's assuming she would know Carly forged Nelle's signature.
  2. Just caught up on this week's shows and god, Sam really is an idiot! Even though, generally, speaking, I think we're supposed to be on Sam and all the Corinthii's side at all times, maybe it was just the way KeMo played those scenes, or them finally acknowledging onscreen that all Delores is trying to do is her job, but I felt like we were actually not supposed to root for Sam in those scenes on Thursday. And, while I wanted to slap her for what she said to Alexis I actually really appreciated that she instantly and sincerely apologized and seemed upset over what she said. It was the most I've seen KeMo engaged in a scene in a while. Usually, in those type of scenes, Sam gets away with treating Alexis like shit and doesn't have to apologize. My biggest issue with Sam, ultimately, was that she saw that Alexis was in a vulnerable state and left her alone in a bar. It's possible Alexis would have relapsed anyway, but given that she only had the one drink and only had it because the bartender offered it to her, she might not have. That's not how I saw that moment at all. It looked like Nelle was finally seeing reason and not thinking of herself and her issues and was going to sign until she realized it would be giving Carly a win. It showed to me once again that beating Carly and Michael and everyone she hates is more important than her son. I'll join you at that unpopular table. I know we've had this discussion recently but I really just do not find Nelle as entertaining as others do. I think CL is an okay actress but nothing special and I've thought that from the beginning. Nelle is too much a of a smug, smarmy sociopath for me to find her entertaining or to root for her. I won't go so far as to say that I root for the Corinthos clan over her. I would be fine with Nelle taking out Sonny, Carly, and Jason in a murder/suicide type deal. I don't root for anyone of those characters over the other. And when it comes to any of the other characters against Nelle, I'll take any of them all day, any day over her. They all have every reason to look down their nose at Nelle and hate her guts. Monica doesn't need to act sympathetically toward Nelle. The bitca tried to burn her grandson alive. Monica's attitude toward Nelle is exactly how she should treat Sonny and Carly. I have no issue with Michael, Willow, Sasha, or Chase (especially given their history together) hating Nelle and "ganging" up on her. It's not unnecessary surgery. Michael may be overselling the need to have the surgery right away, but as they've said repeatedly, just because it's called elective surgery does not mean it's not important or necessary. This isn't a boob job or a tonsillectomy. There's a hole in his heart. It's about the potential quality of the rest of his life. He might turn out to be just fine without the surgery, but there's a chance he won't be. If Nelle agrees to the surgery she would have no right to blame Michael. Unless he coerced her in some way, Nelle would have consented of her own free will and Michael wants the surgery because of the doctor's advice. If Nelle wanted to blame someone it would be the doctor's (or Monica) who would be at fault. I don't think they've done a switch with Nelle. I don't think they're trying to write her sympathetically. That a lot of people find her sympathetic (at least on this board) I think is more based on hatred of the people she's up against rather than a change in her writing. And, for me, she's definitely not the most sympathetic one in this storyline and still sucks.
  3. She may not officially call them Uncle, but I'm sure Robin will have no problem with Jason or Sonny in either of her children's lives and probably tells them what great men they are so, Peter or no Peter, her kids will grow up occasionally seeing criminals like Jason and Sonny as part of their extended families and as good guys who they can turn to in times of trouble. I think the line you mentioned could have made sense but I just didn't see the scene as a slap in the face at Lucky, especially since this is consistent with how they've written Lucky's presence (or lack of presence) in the boys' life for years. I might have missed it in an earlier scene, but in the scene talking about Zander he doesn't talk about throwing a ball around. He talks about him teaching him how to shave and Lucky was mostly out of his life by that point. He doesn't mention Franco. He doesn't say he didn't have a father in his life until Franco. My interpretation of the scene was Cam was just trying to compare his situation with Trina. Trina mentions her parents being divorced most of her life, but Taggert still being around. I think Cameron was talking about how if Zander had lived he might have had a consistent fatherly presence that wasn't based on who his mother was dating/married to. I think you're right about how FH played that scene and it makes sense but it also makes sense that her hatred of Obrecht for what she did to Robin plays a part in her being willing to believe that Obrecht could do this. So, no, I don't find it ludicrous that she's salivating over thinking she could be guilty and getting to put her behind bars, especially since she's desperate to believe the best in Peter. And, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't think Anna is some huge idiot or it's crazy that she has this huge blindspot when it comes to Peter. He did grow up under horrendous conditions and I understand why she's bending over backward to see the good in him. And Anna's behavior will in no way make me Team Liesel.
  4. I think we've been given ample evidence that Nelle is basically a sociopath. She doesn't love anyone and will turn on anyone as long as it benefits her. She claimed to love Michael too but once he was on to her and wouldn't play her games she plotted his murder. I've seen nothing that suggests she loves Wiley beyond seeing him as an extension of herself and as a tool to get back at those she hates. She was basically willing to use him as a human shield when Chase and Michael cornered her.
  5. I assume what Katy M meant was that Nelle's point is that Michael's family is dangerous - which is true but Wiley would not be better off with Nelle getting custody because she doesn't truly love him and if he had to grow up with her he'd be unloved.
  6. Eh, that's going to happen anyway as Robin still consorts with Sonny and Jason I loved GV's Lucky and I loved his bond with those kids but Lucky's record as a father, at this point, is dicey at best. I don't think it could be said that he raised Jake. Wasn't Jake fairly young when he "died?" And, other than when he returned Jake to Liz, He hasn't been an active part of his life growing up and Jake's a pre-teen now. With Cam, I guess you can say he helped raise him for awhile, but Cam was also pretty young when he and Liz broke up the last time and he may not have many memories of him and since it's been such a long time, he probably doesn't consider him his dad, especially since Lucky never formally adopted him. I loved that scene with Cameron because I was a HUGE Zander fan, and even though his name wasn't mentioned, it was the first time he's been acknowledged in a long time and I'm so glad that his son does know some things about him and is curious about him. Since he's dead, unlike Lucky, he might never be mentioned again. KG might be a good actress, but I've never forgotten the stuff Liesel did. She's just as responsible for the shit Faison did given how many years she covered for him and helped him get away with his crimes. She didn't care about the people he hurt so I don't give two shits about her pain over Nathan. Given the number of crimes she's committed I'm fine with her being falsely accused and I'm fine with Anna hating her and being smug about it. Even when the truth about Peter comes out she does not owe that woman one apology.
  7. My God, I think others have said better, but all of the stuff at the jail was beyond farce. I will give them a slight amount of credit that they had guards running in after Ciara when she busted in with Christian/Evan but it's beyond ridiculous that not only did she get in there with C/E while holding someone at gunpoint but that at no point C/E managed to get the drop on her. Not to mention this was already the second time Ciara just busted in there while a damn execution was in progress. LOL at Rafe and others being so sure that C/E was done for just because he confessed in front of witnesses. Yeah, he confessed AT GUNPOINT. That confession would be tossed out like that if this show took place where logic lived. Marlena weeping as if Ben was one of her children was so overkill. Sonny's big smile as he told Will that Ben had been saved was nauseating. I did have to laugh at so much of it. Ciara - "No, Ben. You can't die today." And I was thinking, so tomorrow, then? I'd definitely be good with that. I howled at the sound effect they used for the needle supposedly going into Ben's heart. It's like they found the sound effect from some old cartoon of someone stepping on a tomato.
  8. I need someone to hand me a tissue because those Ben/Clyde were seriously heartwarming. *shakes head* Sorry, replace "tissue" with puke bucket and "seriously heartwarming" with seriously enraging. For a second there, the writers attempt to repeatedly hit us over the head with a hammer to get across the WESTONS ARE REDEEMED message got to me. My eyes rolled so far in the back of my head when Ben talked about "the bad stuff." What a way to gloss over severe child abuse and molestation. Abuse so severe it's supposedly to blame for whatever the hell mental illness Ben supposedly has. How low has this show gone when they're trying to elicit warm and fuzzies over the connection between a child abuse/molester and a serial killer? At least, they gave Ben his unnamed mental illness as an excuse but they haven't gone that far for Papa Clyde...yet. I really wanted to full enjoy Sonny and Will's reunion because it was kind of cute how giddy they both were but I think Sonny might have been a little too giddy. I hated how he glossed over some stuff that shouldn't have been. I HATED either of them expressing any concern for Victor's health. I get neither of them are ghouls and Victor is Sonny's family, but they should both be beyond pissed at what he did to both of them and what he did to their daughter. I think Sonny was far too understanding of Will being willing to stay in prison. It was nice but such a dumb thing to do because again, HELLO, they have a daughter who kind of needed both of her dads. He was also way, way, way too cool with Will just skipping off to go to Ben's execution. He just got reunited with his husband after over a year and it's more important he attend his would-be killer's execution - not to cheer it on but weep over him and lend support. I did have to laugh at how many times Sonny had to say how he only broke up with Will because he thought he killed his mom. Only on a soap do you have to say a line like that. I wondered what was going through FS's mind when he read the script. His facial expression when Evan whipped out the gun was also amusing.
  9. He won't succeed. Damnit, Brainwashed!Chad, you had one job! Why is he shocked? This is Salem. All the criminals are getting off. Why do they even bother with a police department at this point? It's about time! I almost had a rage blackout watching yesterday's episode with Will and Sonny talking about Victor so innocuously, as if he didn't destroy their lives and their daughter's life. I'm sure I'm going to be expected to be moved by Ciara's "pain." But considering she hasn't given two shits about what's going on in her mother's life for ages now, I won't be able to muster up any sympathy for her. Who is Orpheus? I have no interest in a Chad/Gabi pairing, but this is a modern day soap, a brainwashed Chad trying to smother her is a drop in the bucket. Even if he wasn't brainwashed it wouldn't be an obstacle to them getting together. On this same soap, EJ raped Sami, facilitated her rape by the Rafe impostor, and she shot him in the head, and we're still supposed to swallow them as the truest love in history. Gabi calls Stefan the love of her life after he had her sent to prison. She's forgiven worse.
  10. Paraphrasing here: If the DA doesn't take the deal, her death will be on their heads not mine. Sorry, little Mickey I hope your parents love you enough to get me out of this. Every day I think there's no way Gabi's inhumane selfishness could possibly get worse and then it somehow does. It is almost breathtaking how she can't take responsibility for anything. She's come up with this blackmail idea, but if the DA (who she gave major attitude to) doesn't go for it, Mickey's death will be on him. Then she puts it on Eric and Sarah needing to love their daughter enough to get it done for her evil ass. I think Sarah showed monumental restraint in only once trying to kick her ass. If it had been me, I would have snatched her bald-headed. As much as I loathe her, I hoped that in her solo scene we'd get some sense that she felt some guilt for doing this, or some sign she wouldn't really condemn a baby to die, but no, she really would do it. I really shouldn't be surprised she'd use a child as a shield because she constantly does it with her own daughter. She whines and complains how she has to spare her daughter the pain of losing her again and how her daughter can't go through having a second parent in jail. Where was all this fucking concern when she was coming up with her plan and keeping it going for over a year? Has she ever gotten away with anything? How did she seriously expect to get away with this forever? But now others should have sympathy for her because a situation she caused has come to bite her in the ass? I don't care how good an actress CB is - for me she's okay, I've seen better - the character is just repellant. Now Suzanne Rogers on the other hand was brilliant, today. I loved the various emotions she went through, especially knowing Victor and Xander well enough, and not just taking them at their word and working through it herself. Her collapse at the end was really sad. I'm really not someone squeamish about foul language. I'm fine with it. I don't think words like "bitch" and "whore" not to be removed from everyone's vocabulary. Lord knows, I certainly think Gabi is a bitch but I think there were three or four uses of the phrase "bitch" today and it's a bit excessive. Come one writers, there are plenty of other insults people can throw around. Does RC think he's writing for Dynasty?
  11. Why exactly would they care about her situation? She just tried to kill a family member of theirs. And they didn't come in demanding it. I think they assumed she'd willingly go through with the procedure since she voluntarily had her bone marrow tested. Why have your bone marrow tested if you aren't willing to go through with the procedure in case you're a match?
  12. UGH! Wouldn't what happens in the picture be happening around the same time as Ben being executed and/or flatlining? Probably doesn't matter, with the show the way it is Ben will somehow save Sonny one-handed while dragging around his hospital IV stand.
  13. And that's fine. I know Gabi has her fans for various reasons, but at this point, I know I'll probably never be one of them. As ridiculous as the booby-trapped heart thing is, she did it and it's part of her history like all the crappy things other characters have done. She tried to blow up a woman's heart and is now using a dying baby as a shield, which I find gross, soap or not.
  14. Ugh, I can really see this coming. I'm even wondering if it's going to be part of whatever storyline Will/Sonny have next - tension because of his friendship with Ben. I'm absolutely with you on TeamBetterWriting and that Ben sucks, but I'm not sure why all the comparisons to Gabi. They can both suck. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. I think outside of seeing the discussion here on these boards the show isn't trying to compare Ben and Gabi. Other than Ben and Stefan's brief friendship, Gabi and Ben aren't really involved in the same storyline. I think someone hit the nail on the head in the Current Discussions board when they said that Gabi is being written like Sami back in the day. She does absolutely villainous things, but she gets away with them, and the audience is supposed to dislike the things she does while ultimately still rooting for her. I think overall the writing is worse for Gabi, but I think in a way Gabi barely pays for the things she did whereas I think Sami kind of did. I know I read in the Behind the Scenes topic that either Ron or Ken Corday or someone really likes CB, so Gabi is not written so everyone in the audience hates her, despite what she does. The people who hate her either have for a long time and/or, like me, simply hate her because she has done horrible, very hate-able things. I really don't get this idea where she's made to suffer or given much worse writing than Ben or Abigail or Kristen or Xander. With Ben, it's basically a carbon copy of the Franco story on GH which Ron wrote. Franco was a serial killer, RC went overboard trying to redeem him by having him do heroic thing after heroic thing and get praised to the skies despite knowing a section of the audience would NEVER warm to him. With Ben he's had it a little bit easier because abs and right out of the gate he's in an apparently popular pairing. Despite that, RC is still determined to shove him down the audience's throat. With Kristen, she was still being written as truly villainous until not too long ago. Now, just like Ben because she's done such truly unforgivable despicable things, he's starting to go overboard with the over-redeeming. Like I said though I don't think Gabi is suffering more than these other characters. People like to talk about Abigail being given excuses for her bad behavior and skating on her crimes but so does Gabi. She'll be skating on very serious crimes for the second time in two years. The show bent over backwards to give her a reason (several actually) for her revenge plot on Abigail. They went out of their way to cover her when she left Julie when she was having a heart attack. This time, the excuse is thinner since Stefan was truly responsible for his own death, but still they gave her grieving the love of her life as an excuse. And how has Gabi really suffered? After her revenge on Abigail, the only thing she really lost was her friendships with Chad and JJ. After that she gained a rich husband (even though he was a rapist who gleefully set her up to go to prison but, in modern day soaps, that apparently counts as the perfect romantic lead) and became one of the richest ladies in town lording it over everybody. Yes, there are people in town who hate her but, other than Julie and Abigail, she doesn't interact with them much. The people she loves, who love her, haven't turned their back on her. Despite Rafe and Sonny rightfully calling her out, they both promised they still love her and will have her back. I'm sure it'll be the same with Will. Even when they find out she used a dead baby to get out of prison time, they probably still won't be done with her. So, I'm just not feeling this poor, poor Gabi is the most persecuted character on the show stuff. What is with Ron and trying to redeem the truly irredeemable? He's tried it several times on GH and now here. It feels particularly ridiculous that we're suddenly expected to buy this Father Knows Best crap with Clyde and buy this bond with Ben. It wasn't very long ago that Clyde was saying disgusting homophobic things to Will and trying to kill him but because he helped Ben escape our heart strings are supposed to be tugged? Wasn't Clyde supposedly to blame for Ben's unnamed mental illness? Didn't Jordan come back and hint at - or flat out say - Clyde sexually abused her? I think it's even grosser than the show trying to redeem Ben that we're supposed to like Clyde in any way.
  15. What is with the water in Salem. 90% of the people are evil and/or dumb as a post. I know it's a soap staple for eavesdropping and plots getting overheard but it makes Xander and Victor look moronic that this is like the second, third (maybe more time) they've been discussing this sensitive "must take to our graves" super secret at normal volume in the middle of the living room, knowing full well other people are home. And Victor and Xander are such assholes. Xander with his flippant comment about Sonny and him just getting over Will. And, Victor, with warmth oozing all over (sarcasm alert) claiming to love Sonny, but eh, he's got to protect Maggie. I really hope Arianna ends up being an example of nurture over nature because she is seriously fucked with Will and Gabi's genes. Will is one of my faves but I wanted to THROTTLE him today. He's basically putting Maggie's needs over his daughter's. Sure, Victor gave him some vague promise about getting him out sooner. But what does that even mean, especially since we still don't know long Will's sentence even was. And then Will fucking shook Victor's hand?! WTF! And then telling Ben he can't tell Maggie because he promised Victor and shook on it? Seriously?! And what does Will plan on doing when he gets out because let's say Victor does get him out without telling Maggie what happened does Will plan on continuing to lie to Sonny and everyone that he killed Adrienne? How does he expect to reconcile with Sonny if he still thinks Will killed his mother? Does he plan on telling Sonny and trying to swear him to secrecy? And before Ben came on, Will was holding the divorce papers and said something about not needing to hold on to them. Was he planning on going through with the divorce just to spare Maggie pain? It's crappy of him not to be really thinking of Arianna. He mentioned her to Victor once, but he should be wanting to get out right now considering he knows what's going on with Gabi. It's ENRAGING that he wants to be more pro-active about getting his would-be murderer out than himself. And where we supposed to be touched by Ben and Will's concern for each other? "Let's talk about you getting out." "No, let's talk about you getting out." SHUT UP, Carlivati! This "friendship" is gross! God, Gabi is such a sociopath. She goes from crocodile tears asking Sonny what's wrong with her to on a dime flipping a switch and coldly telling Eric and Sarah that she doesn't care about what they need to do they better get her out or their sick baby dies. She was so cold and remorseless and I just wanted to strangle her. Let's put her and Ben in a jail cell and hand him a necktie, please. Also, she was so dumb being antagonistic to the DA. Sure, she has Eric and Sarah over a barrel as they're trying to save their baby's life, but the ultimately what happens is the DA's call. She shouldn't be telling him to stick his very generous plea deal when she's going to need him to sign off on any deal to get her out. I guess she's banking on him being more human than her and not being willing to let a baby die no matter how much attitude she throws around.
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