S06.E08: Start To Finish

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Re: the ants......

 

Call it foreshadowing or whatever, but all I got from that scene was "Holy crap.  That is a shit ton of ants, for it being on the 2nd floor", that and "well, at least something is making sure the cookie(s) won't go to waste".

 

 

ETA:  Maybe its a Virginia (or more accurately, Georgia/southern) thing, but those ants were freaking huge.  When we used to get ants in our house here in the late spring and summer - in the midwest - they were tiny, so much so you almost had to squint to see them sometimes.

Edited November 30, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[GaT]

Termites? Are they kidding? Was this supposed to be a joke?

[bobbyjoe]

Now I'm seriously worried that Gimple will give us an entire episode devoted to the ants in the next half-season and that it will interrupt any actual momentum that might have developed in the main plot.  What is the origin of those ants?  What issues did those ants have with their parents/brother/sister/children?  How did those ants find that particular cookie?

 

It would be such a Gimple thing to do.

[Save Yourself]

Okay, at this point they're just trolling us, right? They think they have so many fucking fans that they can just pull as many fakeouts and as many cliff hangers as they want? Getting real sick of your shit, TWD. 

 

What the hell was this shit? There are walkers all over the damn town, but let's just sit around and have existential conversations and read books on world history. Good times. 

 

Remember when the fucking fence went down at the prison? Remember how they kept industrial laundry hampers full of machine guns at the ready? Remember how TWO FUCKING PEOPLE mowed all the walkers down by themselves??? But nooooo, CDB must have caught "lazy and unprepared" disease from the ASZhats. 

 

I was glad to see they finally decided to do something at the end, especially glad that they're using Guts again. They should be doing this way more often. Also, how hard would it be to take bath mats, rugs, make yourself some protection for your arms when you go out there. Damn, I just can't with these people. 

 

Ron. Fucking Ron. So over him. I appreciate the person Carl is, to sympathize with the shit Ron is going through and want to give him a second chance. But I'm also pissed as hell at Carl for not just killing the little douche. Because I cannot suffer a moment more of him on my TV screen. He's making FPP look good, and THAT pisses me off. 

 

So yea, that fakeout with Judith and Deanna was so fucking stupid. "I just wanted to see her one more time". Since when did those two spend a ton of time together? No, it was cheap and insulting. As was basically the entire episode. 

 

Two seconds of Glenn. No seconds of Daryl/Sasha/Abe. The painful fight between Carol and Morgan. Trust me, show, I won't be spending the ridiculously long break on pins and needles about what will happen. Although, I'm pretty sure something evil will happen at the hands of Sam, who went from being scared to losing his fucking mind over night - while his mother was making out with his future step-father, I might add!!!

 

The only thing I enjoyed about this episode was how much Michonne we got and her interactions with Deanna. Both very fine actresses.

 

Did anyone else hear that there was supposed to be an extra clip after the credits? It went straight into Into the Badlands for me.

 

 

You've pretty much nailed all my problems with this week. I don't know how they can make an episode as boring as this given everybody is in peril - so many opportunities to make it exciting but I was just waiting for the time to run out. AMC could not give a mother clucking crap about making good TV anymore as long as the bucks keep rolling in. These last 8 episodes could have fit into 4, they just filled them with bullshit, pointless scenes to stretch them out.

 

Totally agree with the comparison between this and when the fences went down at the prison. They were so kickass then, prepared for the worst and ready to jump into action. At this point in time, after they have learnt so much more, I don't see Rick not making preparations as soon as the horde surrounded the fence. 

 

The fake out with Judith did suck, I wouldn't have watched the show again if Deanna really did eat her. Re Deanna wanting to see her one last time, I think it was more about this is the last time she'll ever see a baby - something innocent and representing hope for the future - again.

 

There was an extra clip - it was poo.

[Save Yourself]

I'm not losing interest. I've actually enjoyed this season thus far (minus Morgan as The Karate Kid episode). I watch this show just like I watch Wheel of Fortune - from my couch I know all the answers. If all the characters were as smart and quick witted as I am the show would be boring. The character flaws and stupidity is what makes it believable to me YMMV

 

I agree that when you're watching on the couch it's easy to know what to do, I do have time to think about it without being faced with an immediate threat, unlike the characters. Where I get annoyed with the dumbness is when characters we have known for a long time don't use previous experience to help them through situations i.e., finally using walker guts again tonight! When Rick said they would do that I thought well about time but also, ok, you remember doing that before so why didn't you use it to get through the runaway walker horde? I totally give the Alexandrians a free pass on most things because it's only been a few days for them, they would all still be in a state of shock and they are inexperienced.

[Pathetica]

I did not watch the preview, but am annoyed to read that they are not driving that truck back at a rather brisk rate of speed so Morgan can leap in front of it and die.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Oh! Also, did there seem to be a flicker of interest in Rosita's eyes when Tara called her gorgeous?

 

Well, considering how SDS is now hot for Sasha, and Denise is probably a dead woman walking... both Rosita and Tara will be available shortly - or more available than they previously were.

[Bad Example]

Then Carol: No way would she have not jumped into helping her friends or trying to deal with the herd. One lone wolf who is tied up is nothing compared to the hundreds of walkers. As with Sam, I don't know if they are trying to make out she was not in the right frame of mind. 

 

 

While I'm not sure it was a great choice... well, obviously it turned out to be a terrible choice... I sort of get it.  Walkers are at least predictable.  Wolf guy could have done anything, and with more surprise and forethought.  

 

And Abraham looks like an idiot in the uniform.

 

Why, yes,  Yes, he does.  

 

It did amuse me when the Unfair Wolf, said that nothing is unfair anymore, just because of the nickname.

 

 

I chose to believe that was a shout out just for us.

 

Re: the ants......

 

Call it foreshadowing or whatever, but all I got from that scene was "Holy crap.  That is a shit ton of ants, for it being on the 2nd story", that and "well, at least something is making sure the cookie(s) won't go to waste".

 

ETA:  Maybe its a Virginia (or more accurately, Georgia/southern) thing, but those ants were freaking huge.  When we used to get ants in our house here in the late spring and summer - in the midwest - they were tiny, so much so you almost had to squint to see them sometimes.

 

Oh, I'm in Georgia and the quantity of ants was totally plausible.  The size?  Not to much.  While my (sigh) ants aren't as tiny as you describe, those things on the show were the size of fire ants, not the regular ants that come in the house every freakin' time it rains.  Or when it doesn't rain for a long time.  Or because it's Tuesday.  I thought it was just poor CGI and it took me out of the scene (which was dumb anyway).  

[snowwhyte]

so Carl was carry Judith under the sheet but was still able to hold hands. Did he have a baby carrier thing on under there that i missed? 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The upsurd number of commercials they shoved into this episode took me right out of what was going on in the episode entirely.   Really, if AMC wants to drive people to watch this show in a DVR fashion just so that they don't have to sit through the long commercial breaks, they are well on their way to accomplishing that task.  The writing for this show just isn't that special anymore.  At least not to the point where I must watch it as it first airs.

 

I do this with all the scripted shows I watch, no matter what, anymore.  Even if I'm home to watch 'live' - I just start watching about 15 minutes after the show starts, to make sure I don't catch up to current time while FFing through ads.  I don't care if there were only a very few 1.5-2 minute commercial breaks, they're still interruptions.  So freaking nice to be able FF through all that shit.  Only time I stop to watch a part of the break during TWD is to watch that night's FTWD plane bit and the preview about what's coming on that night's TD.  Everything else?  Skipped over as quickly as possible.

Edited November 30, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Morrigan2575]

so Carl was carry Judith under the sheet but was still able to hold hands. Did he have a baby carrier thing on under there that i missed?

Probably, she was carried around in a pouch for the past 2 seasons and they had a stroller for her in ASZ.

Actually Judith not freaking out under the sheet is probably the most believable thing about the situation. She's been a quiet baby from the beginning, is used to being carried like that and covered up and probably very used to the sound/smell of Walkers by now.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Pixiebomb]

I'm ready for the show to move on. No more evil groups led by evil biker gang leaders taking everything CDB has. Including some characters I have grown fond of. I'm tired of CDB building a community only to have it taken away. We need some growth. Some rebuilding of society. Instead it's like they are always on Day 2 of Survivor. No fire, no food, crappy half ass shelter, just sitting around shivering. I'm ready for day 33 when they have Tarps and hammocks and cured meat and crap. Progress people. Progress.

[Arnella]

 

I refused to watch the 2 minute prologue.  Fuck you AMC, quit trying to make Badlands and "fetch" a thing.

I was annoyed when they thought they could make me watch that Saul show doing the same thing but now it is just insulting. Badlands did sound interesting (NOT because of the rude scheduling) but it didn't catch my interest in 2 episodes so I was done.  I'm fine with taping Talking Dead for the next morning.

[Macbeth]

If Carol had been there with Sam - there would have been no risk to the group.  Another child would have died - but children tend to die around Carol.

[Bryce Lynch]

Add me to the list of "people who are getting over this show." My SO just said to me: "I'm thinking this show is approaching shark-jumping." Fonzie (errr...Darryl), strap on those skis!

I can't really add anything as most of my complaints have been addressed, especially the Morgan/Carol character assassinations and the "people generally acting like idiots" issue. And also, I'm already sick of Negan

(sorry, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who I usually like).

Ugh.

I don't think the show is shark jumping. Shark jumping means you are trying too hard. TWD seems to not be trying at all.

The excruciating slow movement of the plot is killing the show for me. It seems like 9 hours of TV over 2 months has moved the story only a couple of days.

This makes any character or relationship development absurd as there is no time for people to grow or change or relationships to develop.

[Johnny Dollar]

The Blacklist and other shows have come around to accept the idea that a gunshot to the head from ten feet away beats knife to the throat every time. I think it has to do with physics, or some such.

The first half of the season was all about annoying kids you wish would die. Quickly. It's becoming "DeGrassi High -The Zombie Years".

Edited November 30, 2015 by Johnny Dollar

[bosawks]

I was fine with Carol acting like she was because she was concussed. Her eyes were even somewhat glassy, imo. But I thought the way she got hurt was beyond LAME. That's another gimmick they need to stop using, people tripping and falling down. And certainly don't fucking use it with CAROL.

 

Well, she does have that extra X chromosome weighing her down.

I kid, I kid, sort of.......

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think the show is shark jumping. Shark jumping means you are trying too hard. TWD seems to not be trying at all.

Traditionally, jumping the shark refers to "A defining moment when you know from now on … it's all downhill … it will never be the same."

I'd argue that either Glenn's death fakeout or this lackluster MSF could end up being The Walking Dead's jump the shark moment.

[ghoulina]

I don't know, I wondered the same thing.  I think maybe it was some artsy foreshadowing of the walkers swarming all over the town.

 

That's exactly what it was supposed to be. 

 

I thought it was really creepy, compounded by his musical choices, and I told my husband - Sam's going to do something very bad to someone. My husband was like, "Nah, the ants are the zombies and the cookies are the town". 

 

Oh. So they're just going to hit us over the head with symbolism now. Cool. 

 

 

 

And then, seeing these guys with weapons no yet drawn, they decide to pull over and see what's going on? Instead of gunning it and shooting them with their own automatic weapons?

But of course, as long as it can be used to set up the

almighty Negan, it's perfectly cool in the writer's book of hackisms

.

 

I truly and honestly think this entire first half was set up at such a slow, drawn-out pace because they specifically wanted to introduce Negan at the end of the mid-season finale.

Nothing more. They're like - "Okay, what can we fill up these eight episodes with, so we can leave everyone oooohing and ahhhing over Negan at the last minute?" It just really sucks. 

 

 

 

This show is much better when it just uses Kirkman's work as a guideline, rather than adapting it word for word from the page. There was a time when the showrunners recognized that.

 

Wasn't season 4 Gimple's first season as showrunner? I loved season 4, for the most part. It's probably tied for my favorite with season 1. But I'm convinced that Kirkman has had him locked in his basement the last 2 seasons, and is forcing him to run the show as HE would. 

 

 

 

The second half of this season needs to do some serious damage control.

 

Why do I get a strong sense of dejavu with this comment? Weren't we all saying the same exact thing last season? Sigh.....I think that even HAVING a mid-season finale does a disservice to this show. It forces the writers to try and come up with TWO grand, suspenseful, cliffhanger type episodes and I'm just over it. 

 

 

 

Can we please add that she didn't save the last bullet for herself? The last walker she killed is moot, as she is about to become one. And she may likely have created a situation where someone she knows, such as her own son, has to kill her or, more likely, get killed as they struggle with killing a friend/mom/former mayor.

 

Exactly! I'm glad Deanna wants to be a badass now, but the whole thing annoyed me. Mainly because - they need every freaking weapon they can get! Put her down, take her gun, and be done with it. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[ghoulina]

The upsurd number of commercials they shoved into this episode took me right out of what was going on in the episode entirely.   Really, if AMC wants to drive people to watch this show in a DVR fashion just so that they don't have to sit through the long commercial breaks, they are well on their way to accomplishing that task.

 

We already record and wait 15 minutes to watch, but it's still annoying as all get out. I feel like I'm hitting FF every 5 minutes. 

[Blinkoshuman]

"Your dad was an asshole."

Carl drops the mic.

[nachomama]

How is it that Kneeeeegun and the Governor don't cross paths? (I know he's dead, I'm just saying

they were building their megalomaniacal societies and keep running across Rick's group but never each other?)

Or the hospital kidnappers or the wolves,

why aint Kneeeeegun out there getting the unfair wolves, they seem a much more logical problem to solve.

 

So frustrated! Nothing happened! Maggie's just gonna sit up there til February. Wolf boy doesn't need a hostage against walkers. Give Dr. Denise back!  Judith just needs to reach over and snap Sam's neck, seriously. And you know walker Deanna's gonna come back and bite someone in the ass, preferably Ron. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[GodsBeloved]

I suppose Morgan and Carol will wake up and have hate sex so I can say goodbye to this show forever.

Stop it! Just Stop IT!!! LOL

 

Poor Morgan is a dead man walking. When they kill him they just may kill the last bit of humph I have for this show unless they stop with Gabriel all but begging Rick for acceptance :(

Edited November 30, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[ghoulina]

How is it that Kneeeeegun and the Governor don't cross paths?

(I know he's dead, I'm just saying they were building their megalomaniacal societies and keep running across Rick's group but never each other?) Or the hospital kidnappers or the wolves, why aint Kneeeeegun out there getting the unfair wolves, they seem a much more logical problem to solve.

 

Well, the Guv was in Georgia and

Neegan is in the VA area. But your point does stand.

These baddies never run across each other and take each other out? Our group never runs across another well meaning group? It's just too late in this show to keep up the "find a place, bad guy comes, takes the place" scenario. Is this going to go on for 10 seasons or more? They should really start on some serious re-building of society shit at this point and start planning for the end of this series. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[HalcyonDays]

Re: the ants......

 

The ants to me were supposed to be a metaphor on the show. - a huge number of hungry pests streaming in towards a source of food - the cookie. Parallel to the Walkers all marching en masse towards a source of food - the ASZers. I actually paused the show, because I was like, Why the ants?? Are they fleeing the Walkers....? Oh, Metaphor!!

 

And Spencer is also stupid - food is scarce dude - don't waste food, even if it's broccoli. I feel like I am typing the word "stupid" a lot these days.

[marceline]

I swear half the people on this show need to look at the flowers. I'm beyond tired of the "pacifist who refuses to kill" trope. I hated it when it was Herschel, Tyrese and now Morgan. When you don't kill, innocent people pay the price. (See: Denise)

 

And I'm actually waiting for Judith to put a bullet in Sam. Even she's gotta be saying "Bitch, please" to his nonsense.

[Primetimer]

Alexandria is finally breached, but it doesn't keep the survivors from paying more attention to their own personal dramas.

Read the story

[Haleth]

This was kind of boring for a zombie invasion.  We've seen it before several times already and know what will happen.  Some will die but most of our core group will escape.

 

I was annoyed that Carol chose that moment to find out who was in the basement.  The herd of zombies around the house was a bit more urgent.  If a wolf was locked up downstairs, who cares?  Leave him to the walkers.

 

Loved, LOVED Carl's response to Ron about Rick being a killer.  "So was your dad."  And then calling him an asshole.  You rock, Carl!  I was thinking that Carl was about the age Sam is (hand waving the height) when everything started.  Of course Carl did a lot of really, really stupid things too and got people killed as a result (Dale), so it's not out of character for an 8? 9? yo to freak out in the middle of the herd, especially one who has been sheltered from the real world.  (Well, except for his dad beating his mom.)

 

But for God's sake, why did no one turn off that damned record!

 

So Maggie was stranded on top of a structure just as Glenn was at the prison.  I see what you did there, show.

 

Is there some place to see the sneak peek?  I wasn't going to force myself to sit through that other show just to see it.  I take it Daryl, Abe, and Sasha were stopped by this Negan's group?  I was expecting them to save the day with the grenade launcher and a truck full of fuel.  World's largest bonfire/zombie distracter ever.

[peach]

Man Heath has just disappeared the last few episodes. And not enough Aaron! And I don't expect Denise to be a fighter, but letting the W take you outside? Fuck no she would not.

 

 

It seems like Heath's and Aaron's key survival skill is invisibility.

[Ottis]

I've quit watching the actual show, and now just read the recaps. Less aggravating.

[Bad Example]

If Carol had been there with Sam - there would have been no risk to the group.  Another child would have died - but children tend to die around Carol.

 

On the other hand, kids with their shit together seem to do just fine.  

[phoenix780]

I feel like this show needs an end date they can work towards. They can always continue with different people in a different place, anthology style. My frustration is with the characters not learning, new people would fix that.

For example, if they remember that they can walk through walkers with camouflage, why did they not try that to get out of Alexandria to lead the herd away from the fence? Why is that their last ditch survival step not a go-to move?

Had they done that they wouldn't have to do it with a baby and a whiny child. So... Why didn't they?

Also, do they not practice running? Seemed like both Carol and Maggie tripped. I don't buy that, they're too skilled. But I guess it was balanced by Rick needing help, too.

Still, my complaint is that they aren't getting more sophisticated with their survival strategies, whereas they did at the beginning of a prior season. I think that's why I'm not as into it.

I didn't read the comics

so the extra scene had no excitement for me. I did appreciate learning why those three didn't show up to help. And those guys must be badass to ride noisy motorcycles during the ZA. Everyone else tries to be quiet.

I also appreciate it because it makes me think that's our starting point for the next part of the season and we won't learn about Alexandria right away.

[riverheightsnancy]

How is it that Kneeeeegun and the Governor don't cross paths?

(I know he's dead, I'm just saying they were building their megalomaniacal societies and keep running across Rick's group but never each other?) Or the hospital kidnappers or the wolves, why aint Kneeeeegun out there getting the unfair wolves, they seem a much more logical problem to solve.

How did they not encounter the huge herd of walkers?  Anyone, in any vicinity of the huge herd was in massive danger. 

 

One thing that I thought was funny, was how greasy Sam's hair was in one day and the dark circles under his eyes! I know that they were selling the "kid goes psychotic" from fear as the story so that Sam can put the group in harms way, BUT they needed more time to set up that whole arc. Sam is pretty used to violence because of his dad. I think that they needed to show more tidbits that he was off before this to make it more plausible. And yeah, the stiff Carol said to him was really wrong. I know that the kids need to learn to be strong, but Sofia ran off into the woods out of fear and became a walker because of it. They are also tolerant of Eugene and his fear, but for a child like Sam, Carol was very harsh, especially knowing the abuse background. I think that they are writing Carol to be on the edge like Morgan was. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays

[Joan van Snark]

 

 

Was it really that much of a surprise that the Wolf escaped, taking the chunky red shirt chick with him?  This show just can't get much more predictable.

That stupid kid that was fighting with Coral (Carl), didn't make a lot of sense either.  Why act out then?  I can understand if he was all alone and felt as though he had nothing to lose, but in this case he had a lot to lose, exposing his brother and mother to possible harm due to the walkers getting in the house.

 

Because the writing and directing on this show is REALLLLY bad.

 

Only thing really keeping me interested at this point is my love of Carol and Andrew Lincoln's acting.

 

Can't believe they have ABSOLUTELY RUINED Morgan!  All that buildup for this?  What idiot thought his ridiculous Zen thing would be compelling?  I just don't understand these writers.  It's like they get these basic ideas of where to go and stick with it without really thinking about if it will actually work and play with the audience.  

 

Can't believe we are about to go through another half-season and probably beyond with a new governor character! Yeah!

Edited November 30, 2015 by Joan van Snark

[AndySmith]

Well, I guess Morgan fans can finally cream in their pants when he beat Bad-ass Carol. I almost began swooning myself, until I remembered I hate Morgn and still wish he was dead.

Overall, not that bad, but not that great either. The season as whole kind of meandered along. The Morgan episode kind of filled the momentum, and the Glenn cliffhanger was just pointless. We'll see how things go next half-season once you-know-who arrives, but considering how the just fumbled the Alexandria story, I really don't have high hopes.

 

So to see the prologue we have to suffer through Into the Badlands for 15 mins???

 

Oh hell no, I just waited for it to show up on youtube.

Edited November 30, 2015 by AndySmith

[nodorothyparker]

I think it says a lot about this episode that when it was mercifully over all I wanted to do was go to bed and watch an old comedy.  No further consideration or play by play analysis.  I just wanted to forget about the whole damn thing.

 

Because seriously, what was that?  Some of our cast didn't manage to show up at all unless you were waiting around well into the next program to be introduced to yet another

apocalyptic asshole I already don't care about when they haven't even dealt with the ones they've got yet because we had to waste 8 episodes making sure we knew how every last redshirt felt about it all.  The regular cast we did have were either out of character, not making any sense at all, or acting like this was their first time at the rodeo.

 

The Carol-Morgan fight felt like one of those things that must have seemed like a great idea on paper, but was beyond ridiculous in reality and only served to diminish two of the show's best characters.  The actors do play extremely well off of each other and have a fascinating dynamic, but seriously?  Carol is a lot of things both good and bad, but short-sighted or impulsive are rarely among them.  Yes, the Wolf and Morgan keeping him as a house pet after he'd just been called to the principal's office for this kind of nonsense is a problem, but he was locked up and it simply shouldn't have been her biggest priority.  The show was obviously trying with her dialogue to make some kind of parallel between this and her killing of Karen and David at the prison and say something about how both she and Morgan are both seriously damaged and flawed people, but that didn't work either because that Carol could at least tell herself that she was acting for the greater good of the group or trying to see the bigger picture.  Because she is a pragmatic bigger picture kind of character.  But here she is, a 100-pound woman who relies mostly on subterfuge, getting into a face to face with a much bigger man who does have her number when she doesn't know if Judith or anyone else important to her is safe while walkers are flooding the streets.  Morgan meanwhile has gone from a character tortured by his own past inaction and trying desperately to cling to something to not lose himself completely to a man who bodyslams a much smaller woman in the name of "all life is sacred" while setting into motion the kidnapping of one character and now five characters including himself being left helpless and/or unarmed in the face of the oncoming herd.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[ChromaKelly]

This show... how many times are they going to do the stumble/twisted ankle bit? I wonder if there's a count for how many times it has happened in the series, per season, per character, etc?

 

Such a hackneyed way of trying to instill a sense of danger.

Right? Why was everyone falling at the beginning? I thought that was a random ASZ-er at first and not Maggie. Maggie doesn't trip and fall like a newbie.

[cambridgeguy]

 

Well, I guess Morgan fans can finally cream in their pants when he beat Bad-ass Carol. I almost began swooning myself, until I remembered I hate Morgn and still wish he was dead.

His actions (and Carol's inexplicable impatience) getting to the slamming point are indefensible but the man had every right to defend himself against a woman who has proved that she's a stone cold killer.  I still don't know what Carol was thinking - whatever else Morgan is, he's an extremely competent fighter and he wasn't the one with a concussion. 

[AndySmith]

If he wasn't such an idiot with regards to keeping a Wolf alive in the house, he and Carol wouldn't have reached that point to begin with.

[RustbeltWriter]

There were a couple good moments. Carl telling Ron his dad was an asshole was great. Deanna's "well shit" upon seeing she was bit fit the scene perfectly.

 

Other than that is was a crapfest.

 

I don't know how you could have a set up as great as a hoard of the undead breeching your walls and then do nothing with it. The only thing that rang true was the fight between Ron and Carl. That is exactly how teen boys act at the most inappropriate times. Carol's decision to fight to the death so she could kill the wolf was not pragmatic and Carol is nothing else if not pragmatic. The whole sequence of events where the wolf goes from being tied up to having a stick, a knife and the guns and a hostage was like something out of a comedy.

 

Oh, and all your base are belong to Negan? Whatever. We're at the end of the world where you can literally go out and pick up whatever you want from a Cadillac to all the canned ravioli you can eat to a rocket launcher and you're wasting your time hijacking trucks on the highway? Why would you do that? Just go get your own napkins.

[EllenC]

General day-after thoughts:

 

• Congrats, Jessie. With your creation of a clanging-away-at-the-worst-possible-time metal sculpture, you're recognized as an official member of Camp ring the Dinner Bell. (Too bad, given your son, the membership may not last long.)
• Wistfully wishing Deanna and Herschel could have planted alfafa and raised goats together.
• As long as the ants weren't some kind of snowglobe/zombies are all in crazy Sam's head symbol, I'm OK with the metaphor.
• Total lack of guts on heads/faces seemed so dumb. Maybe there's a plot need for other characters to be easily able to tell them from walkers in the next episode? (People like Heath and Aaron, who themselves may need to wear nametags so we all remember them at this point? "Oh, wait, is that Gabriel, of all people, in a stylish guts poncho? Being useful? Don't shoot.")
• Raise your hand if you hope we don't really have to deal with this next villain in line for a while, in favor of time spent exploring the fallout of recent events on the people (MICHONNE) we actually watch for. If I wanted a totally comic-book story, I'd read the comic book.
• And b/c it can't be said enough, the Carol-Morgan conflict in the midst of a herd -- as the terribly unfair wolf sat there saying he'll kill everyone -- seemed like a huge fumbling of a potentially fascinating storyline/character interaction. For the 900th time this season: time and place, people, time and place. (How does this end with anything but Rick exiling Morgan, if they all live to tell the tale? Why bring Morgan back for that to happen so quickly?)

 

I really do enjoy this show. But gosh.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays

[Grace284]

The emotional music during Deanna and Rick's chat was very nice and all, but if these are now Rick's people, then his people are stupid and he needs to find new people. Alternatively, he should install a new system of justice whereby people who deliberately do idiotic things that get other people killed should be thrown to the walkers. You'd cull half the cast in about 5 seconds.

 

Jessie raised a terrible pair of children. She should leave them with Morgan to look after. Though the show would probably schedule a five hour special episode where Morgan teaches them the way of the stick or whatever right before they're all eaten after offering hug therapy to a herd of zombies.

[Bryce Lynch]

The Blacklist and other shows have come around to accept the idea that a gunshot to the head from ten feet away beats knife to the throat every time. I think it has to do with physics, or some such.

The first half of the season was all about annoying kids you wish would die. Quickly. It's becoming "DeGrassi High -The Zombie Years".

 

Depending on the ammo, a gun shot from a handgun at 10 feet will take slightly more or less than 1/100th of a second to reach the target's brain.  Far less time than it takes to cut a throat, I believe.  The legitimate concern would be missing and accidentally shooting the hostage.  But at such close range and experienced shooter should be able to make the shot.  

[nodorothyparker]

I'm also completely at a loss with the drawn-out scenes of Deanna trying to career counsel Michonne while there are walkers banging on the windows and trying to push their way inside.  Sure, they were the nice let me impart my final wisdom and have a touching final moment scenes some characters are lucky enough to get before another character has to quietly stab them in the head, but felt bizarre when Michonne's choices at the moment are mostly limited to trying not to get eaten and they stalled any growing sense of urgency the show was otherwise trying to convey.

 

And as someone else upthread has already pointed out, it's nice that she wanted to go out fighting on her own terms.  But in doing that she virtually guaranteed that if her dream comes true and the place does somehow survive, one of those survivors will have to put her down.  Probably her idiot son who Rick clearly wanted to hedge on promising to take care of after his high-wire stunt last week.

[Giselle]

Why is it that every group is strong, organized, and somewhat isolated until CDB comes along, and then conflict ensues and everything blows up? Why haven't the wolfs and Degan's group had it out with each other long before our merry group arrives ... and why hasn't either group had conflict with the Alexandrian's until CDB arrives? It's lazy writing. It seem like it would be more realistic for CDB to arrive in Alexandria with the feuds between these different "clans" already existing, and then having them affect the dynamic by their presence.

It is lazy writing. One would think that two ferral groups would have come across a giant compound surrounded by metal baracades long before CDB was in the picture. One would think with hearing children giggling and playing, town life going on, and the smell of casseroles filling the air these people would have been discovered along time ago.

But the writers weren't thinking this season they just phoned it in... In my opinion. They just did not bring it this season.

Just glad this season is over unfortunately they will be continuing the story line next season. Based on the opening episode next season I may just tape it and binge watch on a boring day so the agony of watching this go off the rails isn't drawn out.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Giselle

[rab01]

They are really fucking up their pacing and seem to believe that we all want cliffhangers because this was a crappy MSF but would have been a decent regular episode. Just like Morgan's backstory was a decent episode by itself but was a complete disaster where they placed it in the season.

 

On reflection, I noticed a couple of odd things that I don't think have been discussed yet:

1) For the blocking of the scenes with the Wolf, Denise must have agreed to be locked up in the room with the Wolf until Morgan got back. Who the fuck would ever do that? And, why would Morgan have thought it was in any way OK to ask her to do it? She didn't and he wouldn't; it was all just hand-wavy necessary to set the scene.

2) I don't think we ever heard Deanna's gun shots from Rick, Michonne and Carl's perspectives.  If that's right, with all the jump cuts and time shifts in this season, it's not impossible that the noise she made will save Sam's life. (I wouldn't count on it because I agree with Jason Alexander on TD that that kid should be dead but it's not beyond the pale for this show.)

3) Sam was spending his time drawing a picture of himself being tied to a tree, which gratifies me because I thought that Carol had crossed a line with her threat to Sam last season and now we are seeing it bear fruit in this episode.

4) Why is Eugene reading a world history textbook If he's supposed to be the resident scared guy?  He shouldn't have been calmly reading a book; instead, he should have been staring out the windows, pacing and trying to think of ways to live ...

 

Some positives about this episode:

1) Carl's scenes with Ron: Both actors nailed their roles perfectly and Carl said exactly what everyone's been thinking, Also, everything they did made sense (at least to me). Ron was pretty sure that they were all going to die anyway and was blaming Rick for it (something that many people on this board do too). That Rick actually isn't at fault for the clusterfuck this time isn't something that his character would automatically see. 

2) Tara's scenes - she's bringing it

3) The zombies flooding the house trope. I've missed it on the show and it was fun to have it come back

4) Deanna's farewell: Of course, she was going to die. There was no place farther for her character to go that wouldn't displace the plot functions of one of the regular cast members. But, her scenes with Michonne and her farewell scream of defiance were really great.

Edited November 30, 2015 by rab01

[EllenC]

On a lighter note, if only Tobin had been riding with the fuel truck gang.

 

Then we could have had the evil bikers exclaim, "What the hell? I think we just captured 4/6 of the Village People. Concert tonight at Negan's!"

 

edited b/c I always forget the police officer. Rick, you can come along too, to make it 5/6. Really, is it any sillier than what they DID say?

Edited December 1, 2015 by EllenC

[ChromaKelly]

I call bullshit on Rosita and/or Tara (but mostly Rosita) not shooting the Wolf. She's not a scared gunshy redshirt. Tara stands up for her friends, why would she let the Wolf take Denise out of the house so easily? The whole thing was stupid. I thought maybe Eugene was finally going to step up. WTF was all that? And why didn't Denise at least try to knee or elbow him? Going outside is a death sentence, at least struggle.

[maystone]

Well, the Guv was in Georgia and Neegan is in the VA area. But your point does stand. These baddies never run across each other and take each other out? Our group never runs across another well meaning group? It's just too late in this show to keep up the "find a place, bad guy comes, takes the place" scenario. Is this going to go on for 10 seasons or more? They should really start on some serious re-building of society shit at this point and start planning for the end of this series. 

 

The Governor was stationary in Woodbury, Terminus was also a stationary group, and Negan is hunkered down in his own locale (at least according to the trio that Daryl ran into a few eps ago). The ASZ was/is an established community. It's our guys who are doing all the roaming. The Wolves are the exception to the bad guys we've seen; they seem to be organized, but they don't seem to have a home base.  I don't think any of the major bad guys were looking for an empire: trying to expand by taking over another group's holdings. Negan may be the exception; I don't know.

 

But yeah, let's get on with the world building, please. It's past time to move in that direction.

[ChipBach]

I call bullshit on Rosita and/or Tara (but mostly Rosita) not shooting the Wolf. She's not a scared gunshy redshirt. Tara stands up for her friends, why would she let the Wolf take Denise out of the house so easily? The whole thing was stupid. I thought maybe Eugene was finally going to step up. WTF was all that? And why didn't Denise at least try to knee or elbow him? Going outside is a death sentence, at least struggle.

This....

 

I wanted to throw the remote at the TV.  No way they would have given up ALL their guns and leave themselves completely vulnerable to the Wolf (who has shown no mercy at this point).  If the show was consistent the Wolf should have simply shot them all right there after he received the second gun...  Rosita didn't have the backstory with Denise that Tara had and has already survived a bout with the Termites.  No way you'd give up your gun because you would know that you would be sacrificing EVERYONE except just Denise...  I was a little shocked that the writers went there, I was expecting Rosita to just shoot the wolf, even if the bullet had to travel through Denise...