S11.E11: The Men Tell All (Kaitlyn Edition)

[watcherwoman]

I wrote earlier about my son knowing Ben H. Ben is known as a high character, mature guy who gives back to the community. He really is a great person, according to his friends, and they are also really good people, so I can believe it.

Ok, I didn't watch the earlier episodes, I only came onboard when I found out Ben H would be on, but did I miss something? Were Clint and JJ a couple on the show? Why were all the bachelors snickering when JJ talked? How did I miss that? Those scenes between Clint and JJ were tense. Good for them if they are a couple, but I'm confused as to why they were on the show.

Edited July 21, 2015 by watcherwoman

[FamilyVan]

Ramble Jr. is convinced the stylist either hates Kait or Kait is styling herself & no one is telling her to stop. Her clothing choices, particularly the dresses, have been unfortunate. They aren't flattering or even pretty. I don't think she's an unattractive woman, but some of the style choices this season have been very unattractive.

 

 

I agree about her styling.  The dress last night was not flattering or attractive.  Why is she wearing cruise ship formal-wear?  She has a cute little figure. And her hair is just really bad lately.  I saw her on Celebrity Family Feud last week and she looked so awful, her hair was very dark, messy and all in her face, both hair and makeup were so bad I almost did not even recognize her at first.  On Bachelorette on some of the outdoor dates she had her hair looked really great, so it really does go to some extremes.  

[seacliffsal]

I don't know if I even believe that those tweets were real or that they were written by the producers, and I agree with those who have already said the producers put that segment first to stop criticisms of Kaitlyn from the men. Yep, too many of the men want to continue to be a part of the franchise so they towed the party line. I really felt bad for JJ and Clint when Kaitlyn made her non-funny, stupid, and stereotyping jokes about them. So, she's a victim of bullying, but can't wait to make fun of others....If in her mind every relationship has to be about sex, I can see why she is unable to appreciate a close friendship. Yes Kaitlyn, there are close relationships that truly are friendships. She was also on total defensive mode. Jonathan had a legitimate question/point about Nick which she bystepped in order to 'zing' him about voting for Britt. So what, he stayed for Kaitlyn and was trying to get to know her. Throughout the season I felt like Kaitlyn was too defensive and was too willing to make some hurtful comments and jokes; TMTA just reinforced that for me.

I wanted to add that Kaitlyn appeared to be all concerned for her family; however, she previously stated how she just lives in the moment. Any concern for her family should have come from her. The audience doesn't really owe her family anything. I hate cyberbullying (especially as a high school teacher I have seen the cruelty and its effects on the victims) but there is a cost to the desire for fame and families are involved in the fallout. Again, I am not justifying or pardoning the bullies.

Edited July 21, 2015 by seacliffsal

[Madding crowd]

What about that bleachable moment thing where she was picking her nose and smelling her feet; who does that on TV? I would be mortified to have anyone see me do that.

[alexa]

I agree with those that have said that regardless of how often cyberbullying occurs, it is still wrong, and I thought it was fine that they brought it up last night.  I think Kaitlyn has owned her actions, and knows she wasn't the best bachelorette ever, but that doesn't excuse people calling her a whore, and writing really mean things in email or on social media.  

 

I think this is one of the better things the Bachelor franchise has done--they discussed a relevant issue (cyberbullying), and had a good platform in which to do it.  

 

As for the special itself, it sucked as usual...too much "looking back" on what we had already seen.  They waste so much time.....  

[wovenloaf]

So much of that reunion was devoted to a bunch of dudes who are WAY too worried about what the other dudes are doing. Is this a way that some men are? I can't think of a single man I know that would care that much whether or not some other guy wanted to be his friend. That Corey-with-a-E guy seriously needs a hobby. What man gets so pouty that some guy (a guy he is yelling at on tv, no less!) won't be his pal?

[JudyObscure]

The dress last night was not flattering or attractive.

What about that bleachable moment thing where she was picking her nose and smelling her feet; who does that on TV?

 

Dresses with big cut outs over the rear, picking her nose on camera, pulling Nick off to bed on camera, -- all part of Kaitlyn's concern for her family.

[kira28]

The person upthread who said Chris H probably wrote those tweets was spot on!! lol. He seemed to take great pleasure in reading them to her. I did agree with Kaitlyn (for once) that the mother that tweeted the death threat showed more about what a shitty person she is than she perceives Kait to be.  I think Kaitlyn is incredibly selfish and was dismissive and cold toward most of the guys. I don't believe anyone but maybe Jared was actually interested in her at any point in time. They were just towing the line for production. Joe really can't stand Kaitlyn. I did not see him clap at a single thing when she was brought on and the rest of the guys would clap. Love that Tanner kept calling her out.  Not sure why Ben H kept defending her except he wants to the next Bachelor. I would rather see Ben Z!

[leighdear]

 

Again, I am not justifying or pardoning the bullies.

Nobody is.  And there is a real problem with bullying, but I just don't see it here.

 

Those random people Chris Harrison cited, who have no influence on Kaitlyn's life or actions, indicated on a public social media forum that they don't like or respect her actions.  

 

They have no proven physical contact with her.  They have no demonstrable authority over her.  They are not her friends or family. They evidently do not affect her ability to earn a living, form relationships or go to Costco whenever she chooses. 

 

Those "bullies" live in a place she CHOOSES to go to, on the Internet and social media.  They don't get into her car at a stoplight or show up at her front door.  She goes to where THEY are.  

 

Why exactly do these "bullies" pose such a threat to her?    I don't see bullying, I see her pretending to be a victim as an excuse for her behavior.  

[CindyBee]

Ok, I didn't watch the earlier episodes, I only came onboard when I found out Ben H would be on, but did I miss something? Were Clint and JJ a couple on the show? Why were all the bachelors snickering when JJ talked? How did I miss that? Those scenes between Clint and JJ were tense. Good for them if they are a couple, but I'm confused as to why they were on the show.

 

 

Only Clint and JJ know if they really had feelings for each other.  But everything they have said in the media post show is that they were playing a part and went along with the whole "broke back bachelor" for air time.  

 

Here's an example of what's out in the press about them playing with the whole "broke back bachelor"; there are alot more that say the same exact thing:

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-batavia-bachelorette-contestant-clarifies-brokeback-bachelor-relationship-20150720-story.html

[Primetimer]

It's time for The Bachelorette's cherished annual tradition of allowing the men to tell all! But will they tell ALL, or only some? And how much of it should you watch? Let us guide you!

Read the story

[Pods22]

I have to say that I really hated how they treated Clint and JJ. When girls bond like that on the show, it's no big deal. Nobody makes jokes about their sexuality, but when two dudes have a good friendship that they value and are excited about it, they are ridiculed. Ugh.

I love The Bens. I'll take either one as the next Bachelor, though after last night, Benzie is my number one choice. He's like a super buff Noel (Felicity, anyone?).

[MakeMeLaugh]

Ben Z and Ben H see to be the front runners for the next Bachelor (much as Ian believed he deserved it).  I wonder if they would consider doing the same thing to choose TB they did to choose TB'ette.  Now that would be funny!  And fair.  Let the girls pick.

This is a terrible idea :). I can accept it only if the vote is a tie and we get to see both Bens for the entire season on my screen. Actually they can rename the show The Ben-chelor and just use them from now on.

[Alapaki]

Voyeuristic slut-shaming is the coin of Mike Fleiss' realm.  But as soon as they get any pushback, they pretend that the franchise is some grand, ground-breaking, enlightened social experiment into evolving social mores.

 

And the Stepford Studio Audience eats it right up.

 

The truth is, this season went off the rails, got completely out of TPTB's control, and turned into a complete shit-show.

 

Can't talk about that, though.

 

So let's allow Ian to embarrass himself with his whole "Bald Guys Need Sex Too" Redemption Tour.

 

And let's have Clint and J.J. spend 15 minutes saying "hey, no homo!"

 

And when Kaitlyn comes out, let's turn it into a "The More You Know" PSA about the eeeevils of cyber-bullying. 

 

Although I guess they knew what they were doing because the few times the actually let Kaitlyn flap her duck-lips she:

1) unwittingly copped to much more of a pre-show relationship with Nick than she did during taping;
2) hurled a homophobic taunt at Clint and J.J.;
3) told Ben (an obvious crowd favorite) that he didn't deserve the truth about her sleeping with Nick because she wasn't that into him and she wasn't worried about him quiting; and
4) told Jared that, while she couldn't wait to meet his family (when she thought there'd be 4 HTD as usual) to saying that there was no reason to have a cocktail party (because, implicitly, there was nothing he could say that would help him crack the top 3).

 

And (completely unrelatedly) did they tape the intro to the Bachelor in Paradise completely out of order?  Why was CH acting like he was giving some big reveals when he would say "we can now reveal that you'll be on Bachelor in Paradise"?  No shit, sherlock.  We saw those guys in the preview you aired at the beginning.

[nutty1]

Is there a dress code for the audience members - what's with all the jewel tones?  

 

 

Actually, they did ask them to not wear prints or black, and to wear brighter colors.

 

 

That was the most boring MTA I have ever watched. Or maybe I am finally over this ridiculous show!! The only good part was hearing from Jared - what a sweetheart. I wish they spent more time with Cupcake too.

Edited July 21, 2015 by nutty1

[Artsda]

Did Clint and JJ make up or are they still not friends?

[truthaboutluv]

I definitely think cyber-bullying is a very real and disturbing thing. The fact is the internet and things like message boards and social media have afforded assholes with way too much time on their hands the anonymity to spew some of the most hateful things. I am also always amazed at the people who will spend inordinate amounts of time trolling the social media of someone they hate, just to keep spewing hateful things to them.

 

So I'm not discounting that Kaitlyn has had some truly hateful things sent to her online. I even mentioned this is another thread when someone asked about how viewers were responding to her as the lead and noted that if you search The Bachelorette hashtag during the show, while she has her defenders, there are A LOT of negative stuff, like, "worse Bachelorette ever, you're a whore, you're a slut" etc.

 

All that said, I agree with others that this felt like the producers/show's attempt to minimize legitimate criticism of her. So it's like "let's show all these awful, hateful things being said about Kaitlyn and look how poor Kaitlyn is getting unfairly judged and attacked" and so suddenly anyone who says anything critical, is now considered a bully as well, versus them just giving an honest opinion. 

 

Even though, as others have also noted, the show themselves help feed the negativity with the edit and let's face it, they know exactly what they're doing with those edits. Like I noted elsewhere, it's just like what they did with Britt. They gave her the edit of fake, insincere, etc. and suddenly acted shocked when many of the viewers didn't care for her. But what I find especially interesting about this Kaitlyn/awful tweets storyline is that Kaitlyn is hardly the only one who's ever gotten awful things sent to and said about her. 

 

Admittedly she is probably getting worse than some others but I'm sure if one searched hard enough, they could find some truly awful things about many other leads and even contestants. And hell, you want to talk about awful, hateful things sent to people on this show, try looking at Nick's social media. Nick is disgusting, should die, is predatory, etc.  I remember last season when many thought it was fun to joke about him looking like a child molester, etc. I feel positive the show won't mention any of those though, because Nick is supposedly the "villain", so it's all okay. Although I'm not sure I'd say I think he was edited as a villain this season. Shawn's crazy seemed to trump that. 

 

ITA that Ben H is hot and seems more confident than Ben Z. I think Ben Z is sweet and sensitive but basically is too shy to be the bachelor. How could they choose a bachelor who thinks, based on a past relationship, that he might be "unlovable"?

 

 

I think you're confusing the two Ben's. Ben H. is the one who thought he might be unlovable and I'm pretty sure that "sweet, sensitive and shy" description fits Ben H. more than Ben Z. 

Edited July 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[backformore]

I thought Chris Harrison was the ultimate troll feeder with his little list of nasty tweets.  Cyberbullying is awful.  I've had long, detailed, nasty posts, complete with death threats and violent photos directed at me on political message boards, but what CH did was wrong reasons all the way.  For the sake of making Kaitlyn a sympathetic figure, he dignified a few lame, nasty tweets by reading them out on national TV.  They weren't even message board comments that might have required a little thought and sentence composition, but tweets!  I consider Twitter so much word jumble and that "mother with children," was probably a 14 year-old-boy laughing in the back of the class.  For every tweet like that there were probably two hundred saying "Kaylun is awesome!" but we didn't hear about them.   It served the show's purpose and made the audience all horrified and the men protective and teary eyed, but it also ensured that we didn't get any of the honesty we were hoping for.

I couldn't agree more!  The show, the way it was edited, and CH's comments, sold Kaitlyn as the Bachelorette who "lives in the moment"  and gets too close, too fast, to too many guys.  

 

 They portrayed her as a slut, then, tried to make the TV audience ashamed for thinking that she might be one. 

[ByTor]

Perhaps if everybody stood up and spoke up about internet bullying being unacceptable in a supposedly civilized society we'd be better off.

Honestly, many have spoken up about it to no avail.  I feel like this is much like trolling...the more the troll is fed, the more (s)he trolls.  Don't respond; or better yet, don't go to places like Twitter where nastiness is hidden in anonymity.  To be clear, I don't mean this in a "blame the victim" way, as in "it's your fault you're upset, you shouldn't be on Twitter reading that crap", I mean it as in "you can't control someone else's behavior, only yours." 

[Alapaki]

Even though, as others have also noted, the show themselves help feed the negativity with the edit and let's face it, they know exactly what they're doing with those edits.

 

 

I agree.  

 

Arguably, to the extent that the "extracurricular activities" had an obvious impact on the season, it would've been difficult to edit around that.

 

But TPTB were directly responsible for having Kaitlyn sit down for her "bless my Chris Harrison, for I have sinned . . . " confession.  "For your Penance, no stop over in the South of France, and your Hometown Date Week will be in the state where drinking Sprite is considered edgy".

 

That fed the "Kaitlyn should be ashamed of herself" narrative as much as anything else we saw.

[Alapaki]

The show, the way it was edited, and CH's comments, sold Kaitlyn as the Bachelorette who "lives in the moment"  and gets too close, too fast, to too many guys.

 

 

I think that when Chris S. turned out to be so boring, TPTB decided that they needed to get the drama/entertainment value from the contestants and by declaring that there were "no rules".

 

By making the contestant who opened with "you can plow the fuck out of my fields", and who wasn't shy about skinny-dipping in front of a crowd the next Bachelorette, TPTB knew exactly what they were getting.

 

Maybe Britt really was TPTB's original choice for Bachelorette, but when she blew up in Iowa they never really thought through their Plan B.

 

But they're never going to blame themselves for anything.  So let's blame the nameless, faceless internet where we're shocked, SHOCKED to find that people are rude.

[backformore]

One last thought about the "cyber-bullying".  Does reading negative tweets on national TV encourage, or discourage people from posting such comments?   

Chris H knows exactly what he's doing.   This show LOVED the attention the B'ette got on social media, I bet they had some intern scouring the internet to find how many comments were out there, and were cheering about the numbers.  People aren't going on social media to post "she's a lovely girl, and I hope she finds true love."

The people who wrote the comments were at home cheering when their comments were read on TV, and others are determined to do better, so that THEIR comments will be read on the Bachelor in Paradise tell-all. 

[Dirtybubble]

I have to say that I really hated how they treated Clint and JJ. When girls bond like that on the show, it's no big deal. Nobody makes jokes about their sexuality, but when two dudes have a good friendship that they value and are excited about it, they are ridiculed. Ugh.

 

I hated how the entire vibe on the show was tee-hee-hee those dudes are into dudes, tee-hee-hee.  I really could care less what JJ and Clint's relationship is and Chris H. spent waaay to much time rehashing this b.s. again.

 

Also to Chris H. revealing that JJ would be BIP would have gone over a lot better if we didn't already know about it weeks in advance!  And it isn't like it's a spoiler thru R.S., ABC has been showing commercials of J.J. showing up on BIP for awhile now; way to stay on top of things Chris.

[MakeMeLaugh]

And doesn't the MTA usually end with Chris H asking the B'ette if she has found love and her coyly responding at a minimum that she is very happy? Did I miss this last night?

[FamilyVan]

Re: "Clint and JJ".  So what, they became friends, who cares.  I would rather see them become genuine friends that last and see pictures of the two of them together in front of some step and repeat at a party 2 years from now than some of these other phony relationships that come out of these shows.  In the realm of this show, if two of the guys hit it off and bond and end up having a better time hanging out with each other than the stupid contrived dates and pursuing a girl they are "meh" about... is that really so "out there" and "crazy"?  I'm using a lot of quotes just for you JJ.  

Edited July 21, 2015 by FamilyVan

[Alapaki]

And doesn't the MTA usually end with Chris H asking the B'ette if she has found love and her coyly responding at a minimum that she is very happy? Did I miss this last night?

 

 

We usually get that.  We also usually get a poll of the bootees for who they think the Lead will choose.

 

It's entirely possible both things happened and just weren't shown, either because the poll was so lop-sided or Kaitlyn said something stupid and revealed her choice like "oh, yes, Shawn/Nick and I are very happy".

 

Or, they really just want to put this trainwreck behind them and jump on the Vatrex Express to Mexico.

[Dr Epi]

Couple of things.

 

1) Regardless of the bullying of Kaitlyn, the show perpetuated the bullying of Clint and JJ.  Agree with posters that say that when the women develop close relationships, it is considered no big deal.  But the show went on to highlight the close relationship between Clint and JJ as if it was something that was either fake or taboo.  Rather than taking it seriously as a close friendship that a) might have had a sexual tinge and/or b) might be derailed now because of how the show has portrayed the men so they have to runaway from what could have been a really good friendship/relationship

 

2) The show usually ends with teases about what is to come or to ask the Bachelor/ette is they are happy that they came onto the show.  No questions like that in the MTA.  Plus no hint of an ATFR show.  Wonder if the ending is not exactly paradise?  Or if a loser is so bitter that they don't want to come onto an ATFR show so there is no sense in doing one.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Dr Epi

[truthaboutluv]

Well there's definitely an ATFR because Nick tweeted a picture of himself apparently getting fitted for his suit for next week's ATFR appearance. 

[Cementhead]

Am I the only one who noticed Chris Harrison; not once but twice; checking out her chestorial region?  He did it the first time when she first came out and then once more as he was throwing to a commercial break.  Perhaps he was just worried that she was going to have a nip-slip in her figure skating dress.

[Superpole2000]

Couple of things.

 

1) Regardless of the bullying of Kaitlyn, the show perpetuated the bullying of Clint and JJ.  Agree with posters that say that when the women develop close relationships, it is considered no big deal.  But the show went on to highlight the close relationship between Clint and JJ as if it was something that was either fake or taboo.  Rather than taking it seriously as a close friendship that a) might have had a sexual tinge and/or b) might be derailed now because hot how the show has portrayed the men so they have to runaway from what could have been a really good friendship/relationship

I agree in theory. The "Two guys being friends = homosexuals!" joke is really low-brow. The problem is that JJ and Clint seemed to be very conscious of the cameras. It is tough to believe anything was genuine in anything those two did this season. They constantly looked like really bad actors.

[SassyCat]

Hi all, new member here! I had top join to say that I hope all these young handsome, & beautiful people find the love they all search for in this crazy world. Did anyone else notice JJ took his earnings and got his teeth fixed. They look beautiful! I am looing forward tp BIP2 and have to say I'd be the first one hanging with Ashley and the beautiful parrots. That would put me in my happy place too. :) I do think her & Tony would make a good match. I wish every contestant the best!

[CaughtOnTape]

Nobody is.  And there is a real problem with bullying, but I just don't see it here.

 

Those random people Chris Harrison cited, who have no influence on Kaitlyn's life or actions, indicated on a public social media forum that they don't like or respect her actions.  

 

They have no proven physical contact with her.  They have no demonstrable authority over her.  They are not her friends or family. They evidently do not affect her ability to earn a living, form relationships or go to Costco whenever she chooses. 

 

Those "bullies" live in a place she CHOOSES to go to, on the Internet and social media.  They don't get into her car at a stoplight or show up at her front door.  She goes to where THEY are.  

 

Why exactly do these "bullies" pose such a threat to her?    I don't see bullying, I see her pretending to be a victim as an excuse for her behavior.  

 

There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

What was put up on the screens on the show is cyberbullying.  Period.  There's no getting around it.

It does not matter if you know who's doing it or not.  That's part of the reason it's known as CYBERbullying, because people do it behind the veil of the Internet so they think they can't be caught or that it doesn't matter because it's just on a computer screen and not actually being said to her face.

What was said to her is disgusting and over the line.  While the whore and slut things are bad enough, someone telling her to drown or that they'd like to see her cry is sad and demented.

 

She can play the victim all she wants in this instance, if you ask me, she's got ample evidence to show what's being said to her.  And it's not ok.  Had I had it my way, the names of the people saying that shit to her shouldn't have been redacted.  Let them answer for their willful ignorance and disgusting behavior. 

[Padma]

I don't know if I even believe that those tweets were real or that they were written by the producers, and I agree with those who have already said the producers put that segment first to stop criticisms of Kaitlyn from the men. Yep, too many of the men want to continue to be a part of the franchise so they towed the party line. I really felt bad for JJ and Clint when Kaitlyn made her non-funny, stupid, and stereotyping jokes about them. So, she's a victim of bullying, but can't wait to make fun of others....

Yes, and when she mocked them like that, she hadn't even been asked about the gay thing. She brought it up herself, to be "funny". Because ridiculing people publicly on television and implying they're gay when they've said they aren't is never not funny! I'm sure they would have preferred her to put it in a rude tweet about them rather than on national television, but of course she wouldn't since she's so opposed to cyberbullying (at least when -she's- the target of it).  I liked how no one thought she was funny AT ALL, even those who dislike Clint and JJ. And their stony glares at her were impressive, too. Well deserved, imo.

[saber5055]

I was looking forward to last night's show. But instead of a "good time" for me, I got a bunch of men arguing like a bunch of little girls about who said what to whom, like any of that even matters. And the men sniggering about some relationship, real or imagined, between two men. So cringe worthy. Then CH reads some tweets, for pete's sake, TWEETS, and some email, real or fake, to make us feel sorry for Kaitlyn, the person who put herself on national tv, went bare-assed swimming, told CS he could plow her field, then catted around through her entire season. People send mean emails and nasty tweets about everyone, what's the big deal. So don't go online and don't read them. Some actors will not read reviews of plays they are in. If you are confident in yourself, Kaitlyn, you do not need the affirmation of people you do not know and will never meet.

 

All season long, this show portrayed Kaitlyn as the person those tweets and emails described. Then it did an about face last night to make her some poor, sensitive and BEST B-ETTE EVAH! 

 

And the studio audience being cued to harass Ian (who really impressed me) and other men who did not "fit the profile" that TPTB wanted? Just ... so irritating. I hated everything about this show.

 

I ended up turning over to Ninja Warrior, this show was just more than I could tolerate.

[tpplay]

I know for absolutely sure - even though I believe I'm an open-hearted, smart woman - that I could be edited on TV in an extremely negative way.  I have no doubt.  So - I stand by - given editing etc. - I don't know her motivations, I don't know what part of what happened was driven by her and what part was driven by producers.

 

Cyber-bullying is terrible.  There is absolutely no excuse for it.  Just because lots and lots of people do it, doesn't make it right.

 

Lots of people do lots of things.  That's not at all an ethical standard.

[Padma]

I think you're confusing the two Ben's. Ben H. is the one who thought he might be unlovable and I'm pretty sure that "sweet, sensitive and shy" description fits Ben H. more than Ben Z. 

You're right, which is funny, because when I posted it I was so proud to have finally sorted them out.

 

Nice to know that someone on this board knows Ben H and that he's such a great guy IRL. If he becomes TB maybe more of that will come across. "Kind, sensitive and shy" seems like a poor choice for the lead in this show, but maybe he could do it. I think the lead needs a lot of self confidence and, frankly, to be a little cold and less empathetic in leading people on then dumping them. To me, Ben H would probably not enjoy being TB after he got over the initial flattery of all the women who were eager to date him. I think he would probably be another one who should stick to "TB former cast" parties and meet the attractive intelligent women who never get too far in this show. 

 

Re: Clint and JJ.  Honestly, I think the intensity of their relationship emotionally and physically (not sex, but 4 hours together in the hot tub, showering together and even removing a pimple on the other guy's back for him during the showers, being "all about each other" to the point where the other men got a very "you're unwelcome" vibe) was very unusual, even for a good friendship. And I actually think that it would have been just as true for two women, that if they were that into each other they'd be getting lesbian rumors, too, it wouldn't be taken as just "a nice female friendship".  Sorry they didn't both get BiP because whatever they had, it seemed unusual and based on genuine chemistry (unless JJ was just "playing" him, but what would be the point?) so they shouldn't let the show wreck it.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Padma

[Iwillnotacceptrose]

I find it hard to believe that the show genuinely believed they were taking a stand against cyber bullying.  Having the experience they do, they should know that highlighting negative behavior only encourages it, because the people doing these things want attention above all else.  Someone needs to tell this to Kaitlyn as well, because she constantly responds to random negative tweets and not positive ones, which makes people much more likely to say something mean just to get a response.  I also find her a bit hypocritical, because she tweets and snapchats mean things about some of the contestants after episodes air.  Sure she doesn't say she wishes they would die but negative/mocking comments coming from someone who says she "finds the best in everyone" while crying about others doing the same to her doesn't garner my sympathies.  And the difference is that the people saying horrible things about her are anonymous, faceless strangers while she has personally spent time with these bachelors.

[Alapaki]

Yes, and when she mocked them like that, she hadn't even been asked about the gay thing. She brought it up herself, to be "funny". Because ridiculing people publicly on television and implying they're gay when they've said they aren't is never not funny! I'm sure they would have preferred her to put it in a rude tweet about them rather than on national television, but of course she wouldn't since she's so opposed to cyberbullying (at least when -she's- the target of it).  I liked how no one thought she was funny AT ALL, even those who dislike Clint and JJ. And their stony glares at her were impressive, too. Well deserved, imo.

 

 

It took me a few seconds to figure out what she was even getting at.  Who cares where Clint is sitting?  Oh, I see.  He's sitting behind J.J.  And teh gays "do it" from behind.  That's hysterical.  

 

I usually think most of the female contestants on this show lie about their ages to make themselves seem younger.  I actually think Kaitlyn is lying about her age to make herself seem older.  Otherwise she's 30 going on 12.

[Mu Shu]

Death threats is one thing, but censoring free speech is a slippery slope. I'll never stop snarking on reality contestants, and that's definitely not the right way to read mean tweets.

[ByTor]

 I also find her a bit hypocritical, because she tweets and snapchats mean things about some of the contestants after episodes air.

Don't forget the mean (but of course bwah-hahhhh hearty laugh hilarious) mariachi song she performed.

[ElectricCityy]

I think Benzie would make a better bachelor than Ben H. simply because he had no trouble throwing Joshua under the bus and making him look like a delusional fool during the group date in San Antonio. I find Ben H. to be a bit nicer than that and I don't see him being callous towards any of his suitors. He would come out of it having a terrible experience. Benzie is talking about being in love with Kaitlyn when they only had one date and he is telling the audience how ready he is for love. I saw more of a bachelor audition from him last night than anyone. I still think it'll be Ben H. because he made it further and had a stronger connection with the lead. He's also well spoken and he actually thinks his thoughts through before actually speaking. I like that.

 

I'm surprised they didn't have Cupcake up there to explain his embarrassing wailing on that cliff.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ElectricCityy

[backformore]

I can't get my quotes to work on this computer -

Anyway - about JJ and Clint being portrayed as gay -   On Chris's season, Brit was shown cuddling with another woman on several occasions.   They would be next to each other, stroking each other's hair, leaning on shoulders, etc.   It was clear that they did it to increase their on-camera time.  disparaging remarks were minimal.   To me,  Kaitlyn's remark about JJ and Clint went along with the macho stance that you see all over the place -  two women who are into each other is HOT, two men?   Ick! let's make anal sex jokes! 

 

About redacted names on the tweets - showing the twitter account names isn't the same as "exposing"  the people who wrote the tweets.  anyone can set up twitter accounts under fake names, people do it all the time.  And believe me, if there's a chance in hell that chris H will be reading tweets on TV in the future, people will be doing it more.  Ever seen the show Tosh.0?   people tweet outrageous things JUST to have him read the tweets and make fun of the people who write them - and the people tweeting are in one it  - they post the most outrageous stuff with the purpose of getting called out on his show.  

[himela]

What I got from this show is that some questions are remaining unanswered. The most important is what a guy said; Kaitlyn had a friendship with Nick before the show began. This is totally ok. Then she becomes the bachelorette and announces she can totally see her husband in that group of guys. What she should have done is, make the show, try to connect with men she liked and if this didn't work out she could pursue Nick in the real world. With accepting Nik in the second week and creating all this drama she showed that either it was producer driven or she is selfish as hell. I'm sure that Shawn is the final one by the way for three reasons: 1. She just clicks with him and she treated him throughout the show like they were in a relationship already and the rest was just a show, 2. The photo that she uploaded with her and Shawn in bed and 3. How DRAMATIC will it be that Nick comes second once again and uses the same line again? "why did you make love with me TWICE while you knew I was not the one?" (drums playing in the backround, dramatic music, Andi evil-laughs).

[Bobcatkitten]

Bravo to Tanner who pointed out how she acted with Nick and how she made it all about him and the relationships with other guys took a back seat for more than a week - even noting her running outside to make out with him on the dock.

 

I just don't get how Kaitlyn isn't upset with the producers. It is the SHOW that made a big deal of her sleeping with a guy when they had never done that with other contestants in the past. The SHOW used the sexist double standard.

[violetr]

One last thought about the "cyber-bullying".  Does reading negative tweets on national TV encourage, or discourage people from posting such comments?

 

 

Getting a little off-topic here, but the writer Lindy West, who's been horribly cyberbullied because of her feminist views and weight, has written about that a lot. She's decided to go after the trolls, with mixed results. But she did have one incident where a guy who said horrible things to her apologized once he realized how hurtful it was to her and her family. So maybe if just one person changes it's worth it. I think that's why Kaitlyn and Harrison (as cynical as it may be on Harrison's part) spoke out about it. People do need to know how harmful it is because clearly there's a lot of ignorance surrounding this issue. 

[nexxie]

On-his-knees Ian was just as fake and full of himself as Exit-asshole Ian.

[Alison]

Kaitlyn annoyed me for most of the season but I actually think she did a fine job tonight.  I thought a lot of her answers were honest and fair.  I think the comment she made about dating multiple people and having it televised and not making any mistakes was totally real and legit.  And I have to disagree with anyone expecting her to sack up over the cyber bullying stuff.  Sure, you have to be realistic and expect that stuff is going to come your way, but I don't think we as a society should just shrug it off because it's bound to happen.  It should still be treated as reprehensible behavior.  

Ditto to all of this. Some people seem to be insinuating that she sought out these mean tweets/messages/etc., but the poor girl probably couldn't even log on to Twitter without seeing notifications for all the hate spewed her way.

 

Also, Kaitlyn explaining to Jared about sending him home and thinking she would have a hometown date with him makes it clear that she was not in on or forewarned about the decision to cut the HT dates to two following three overnight dates. I wonder if we will ever know exactly what happened on this show.

Interesting fact I learned yesterday: I don't know if any of you listen to The Right Reasons, a reality TV podcast part of the Grantland network, but on the most recent episode, one of the hosts said she was talking to an ABC exec and/or a Bach producer recently. That person informed her that the reason they've been in Ireland forever is because after the Kaitlyn/Nick coitus, the producers "started from scratch" and threw the usual schedule out the window. Some of the fantasy suite dates were supposed to happen in Patagonia, but that mid-season coitus made all the producers lose their minds. I'm not sure why, based on what we saw on TV, but that suggests to me that there must have been more that went on behind the scenes.

[bobbyjoe]

Kaitlin, not one week went by during my one year tenure at Comcast without a death threat.   Those people knew where I worked, too.  Put your big girl panties on, or get off TV.  Yes, it sucks, but you can't control the actions of others.

 

The whole cyberbullying thing was to shut down any criticism, though Tanner did a good job of hot seating.  She had daggers in her eyes when confronted.

 

Yeah, you know anyone who's familiar with the internet at all knows that people say all sorts of mean things to celebrities on Twitter.  Hell, even somebody like Betty White probably gets messages like the one Chris was reading about Kaitlyn if you dig far enough into her Twitter account.  If Mother Teresa were alive today, somebody'd be on Twitter cussing her out.  It's troll city.  So Chris pulling out some well chosen messages and acting like that was in any way representative of the actual criticisms about Kaitlyn is what's actually pretty disgusting.  And you're exactly right-- it was meant to pre-empt and shut down criticism.  As was the well-stocked "hooray for Kaitlyn" audience.

 

The audience ticked me off when they booed the one guy who rightfully criticized her. Like somebody said above the bullying thing was damage control, the booted guys then knew if they said something critical they would look like bullies.

 

He should check his Twitter account.  There's probably some really mean things there posted by a Kaitlyn supporter that he can use to make himself a martyr, like the show tried to do for her.

[nexxie]

Jared seems like a genuinely good guy - sorry to see he'll be on the idiotic Bachelor in Paradise.

[Kbilly]

They portrayed her as a slut, then, tried to make the TV audience ashamed for thinking that she might be one.

 

So on the money. They made it so nobody could talk about the thing that everybody was talking about this season and what we would most want the Men to Tell us.

 

I hated that the audience applauded Ian and that some of the bachelors gave him a standing o and that Kaitlyn let him slither off the hook. I loved Tanner for saying he was "butt hurt" but then Tanner was part of the stupid standing ovation. I wanted to see him roasted or not given any time at all.

 

I very much dislike JJ and I'm sad he will be poisoning Bach in Paradise. I loved Amy Schumer getting a few more riffs on him during the outtakes. He is a joke and he is not in on it. I hated how when talking about Clint he was purposely speaking in innuendos, using words like "meat". Shut up JJ forever.

 

It was adorable when Jared said he keeps hearing "Linger" and thinking of Kaitlyn. He looked really pissed when Ben was talking about the Infamous 6 Hours in San Antonio