S11.E11: The Men Tell All (Kaitlyn Edition)

[bobbyjoe]

Yes, and when she mocked them like that, she hadn't even been asked about the gay thing. She brought it up herself, to be "funny". Because ridiculing people publicly on television and implying they're gay when they've said they aren't is never not funny!

 

The show went on and on and on with the gay thing again tonight.  And note this is after a number of major places, including Time magazine, have called them out about how bigoted they're being.  They know better, but they do it anyway.  Imply somebody's gay, cut to the audience laughing like that's simply the most hilarious thought ever.  It's really ugly.

 

So, yeah, and then the showrunners give us their little PSA about cyberbullying.  What a bunch of hypocrities.

[slowpoked]

I have soured over Kaitlyn through the course of the season, but I gotta give it to her - when she came out and sat down, she told the guys "It's good to see all of you!". There's some genuine fondness in there, compared to Flapjack's "Welcome to my nightmare." on his WTA.

[Adeejay]

I can't get over Kaitlyn saying, "It hurt my family!"  Sweetie, maybe your family is hurt because they are embarrassed.  When someone behaves the way you did on national television, it reflects on who he/she is, how they were raised and what they were taught.  As my father (may he rest in peace) used to say, "actions have consequences."  I believe those specific tweets and emails were written by the producers to garner sympathy.  However, based on what I've read, I don't think she deserved that level of hate, but neither did she deserve a standing ovation .

[leighdear]

 

Jared seems like a genuinely good guy - sorry to see he'll be on the idiotic Bachelor in Paradise.

Actually, one of the things I like most about BIP is that each individual there is able to decide who they are attracted to and if they want to act on it.  Nobody is forced to deal with an individual they aren't drawn to if they don't want to.  Dates can be turned down or give to other participants.  It's pretty democratic in that way.  

Jared will be able to evaluate several ladies to decide for himself who he may be interested in getting to know better.  He doesn't have to just settle for a specific one, then be forced to act grateful.  

[nexxie]

Actually, one of the things I like most about BIP is that each individual there is able to decide who they are attracted to and if they want to act on it. Nobody is forced to deal with an individual they aren't drawn to if they don't want to. Dates can be turned down or give to other participants. It's pretty democratic in that way.

Jared will be able to evaluate several ladies to decide for himself who he may be interested in getting to know better. He doesn't have to just settle for a specific one, then be forced to act grateful.

Well then, maybe I'll watch just to see how he navigates those waters.

[Former Nun]

I can't get over Kaitlyn saying, "It hurt my family!"

 

 

Is my skin too thick?  I didn't see any death threats--THREATS--in the supposed Tweets Chris Harrison read/showed on the show last night.  If there were threats, there are legal methods to find the culprits.

[Dirtybubble]

It was adorable when Jared said he keeps hearing "Linger" and thinking of Kaitlyn. He looked really pissed when Ben was talking about the Infamous 6 Hours in San Antonio

 

LoL--I have to quote R.S. and ask what radio station still plays Linger??  I would have to agree and say he bought the CD and plays it on a loop.  I kid, I like the guy as well, even if he does have the inability to grow a full beard, (those patches of hair freak me out!) and I look forward to seeing him on BIP.

[Former Nun]

It was adorable when Jared said he keeps hearing "Linger" and thinking of Kaitlyn. He looked really pissed when Ben was talking about the Infamous 6 Hours in San Antonio

 

 

That's because Jared didn't receive the clue that this entire thing is fake.  Maybe he can watch reruns of "Unreal."

[Alison]

Yeah, you know anyone who's familiar with the internet at all knows that people say all sorts of mean things to celebrities on Twitter.  Hell, even somebody like Betty White probably gets messages like the one Chris was reading about Kaitlyn if you dig far enough into her Twitter account.  If Mother Teresa were alive today, somebody'd be on Twitter cussing her out.  It's troll city.  So Chris pulling out some well chosen messages and acting like that was in any way representative of the actual criticisms about Kaitlyn is what's actually pretty disgusting.  And you're exactly right-- it was meant to pre-empt and shut down criticism.  As was the well-stocked "hooray for Kaitlyn" audience.

So, by your logic, cyber bullying is okay because everyone in the spotlight gets derogatory and cruel messages? I have to disagree with your idea that the tweets CH read were "well-chosen"; the words 'slut' and 'whore' were bandied about on this message board, so I'm sure the show didn't have to search far to find such disgusting commentary.

[ByTor]

LoL--I have to quote R.S. and ask what radio station still plays Linger?? 

If he has Sirius/XM, he would hear it quite often on the channel called Lithium.

[ByTor]

So, by your logic, cyber bullying is okay because everyone in the spotlight gets derogatory and cruel messages? I have to disagree with your idea that the tweets CH read were "well-chosen"; the words 'slut' and 'whore' were bandied about on this message board, so I'm sure the show didn't have to search far to find such disgusting commentary.

I saw that the OP said cruel comments happen all the time in social media and are to be expected, but I don't see where anybody says it's ok.  And yes, I do think that choosing the tweets using derogatory terms could be referred to as "well-chosen."  In fact, I think any of the negative comments were well-chosen.  On the Facebook official Bachelorette page there are myriad posts defending Kaitlyn...now I don't really read Twitter and can't say this with any certainty, but I'm sure there were plenty of posts there defending her as well.

[Former Nun]

Did anyone else notice JJ took his earnings and got his teeth fixed. They look beautiful!

 

 

No!  I love stuff like this...and usually notice it.  I'm sorry I deleted the show (well, not really) from my DVR.

[leighdear]

I just think that If I pulled down a minimum of $100,000.00 for a few weeks of travel, dating and knocking boots with cute guys, I'd probably be a little less mouthy about how I'm being so horrible and publicly "abused".  But that's just me.  And I don't have a social media addiction either, so there's that.  

Edited July 21, 2015 by leighdear

[Former Nun]

Leighdear...don't forget the wardrobe (whether it's tasteful or not).

[Dirtybubble]

I just think that If I pulled down a minimum of $100,000.00 for a few weeks of travel, dating and knocking boots with cute guys, I'd probably be a little less mouthy about how I'm being so horrible and publicly "abused".  But that's just me.  And I don't have a social media addiction either, so there's that.

 

You could look at it from the standpoint that she knew what she was getting into.  Especially having been on the Bachelor before she's not new to this kind of reality tv so she must have known that this would have gotten out somehow, someway and there would be negativity on social media.  (sounds like an episode of Unreal) BUT if the stuff being said on those sites is that harsh and if she is genuinely hurt then I do feel sorry for her.  I've always liked Katlyn and I don't fault her for anything she's done.  And she can take comfort knowing that once BIP starts up this hoopla will die down and trolls will move on to other stuff.

 

Leighdear...don't forget the wardrobe (whether it's tasteful or not).

Does ABC pay for all those clothes?  Does she get to keep them after the show?  If so, sweet!  Yeah she scored big hate mail or not. 

[Mu Shu]

Jared is too good to languish over Kaitlyn, or be sullied by the BIP drama queens.   Holy crap Batman, but he's hot.

 

Ugh, JJ should never be on TV again.   

 

Here's hoping Cupcake didn't get any time because he's the next Bachelor.   That much cheese deserves it's own season. 

 

Ian went even further down the rabbit hole of douchiness.  It was like that scene in "Spinal Tap"  where Artie Fufkin demands to be kicked in the ass to make amends.  
 

[Bobcatkitten]

I think everyone is missing the middle ground between "Kaitlyn is a whore and deserves to die" tweets and Chris' "Kaitlyn is a role model." She is neither.

[Vicky8675309]

This is the first "tell all" episode that I did not enjoy. The OTT preempted strike against any Kaitlin backlash from the guys was so obvious and manipulative. Then the hypocrisy of the gay jokes was offensive and I don't get easily offended. The fact that the real questions weren't answered pissed me off.

Why did she only tell Sean about Nick and imply the others don't value honesty? Why did she LIE about her prior relationship with Nick ("downplayed" my ass…she flat out lied and then exposed herself….idiot. Wait, is that cyber-bullying? So what are appropriate words? If calling her an idiot is cyber-bullying then what do you call her behavior of either making offensive gay references or out-ting someone(s)--people have killed themselves after being out-ed (I assume they have). What about her deflecting genuine questions with a "you voted for brit"….yeah, well Jared also voted for Brit so what the hell are you saying Kaitlin. What about Amy Schluer (sp?) and her treatment of JJ? It was hilarious but it was mean…was it bullying. Were the audience bullies? Whatever….

I can't believe I dislike Kaitlin even more than before. I don't care if she has sex with multiple guys. It's all the other behavior and comments that cause me to dislike her. I don't hate her but I dislike her.

I thought Ian's OTT fake apology was perfect for this fake show. I'm more team JJ/Clint (except when he/they are defending Kaitlin) than I am Team Kaitlin. Or I am Team douche Ian more than I am Team Kaitlin.

So I can't snark Kaitlin's appearance or I am a cyber bully? No more snark? Yet Kaitlin can make snarky gay comments and the show can snark itself and its immature idiot bachelorette who didn't even get to know more than a handful of guys.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[slowpoked]

Why did she only tell Sean about Nick and imply the others don't value honesty? 

To be fair though, I don't really see how Kaitlyn could have answered that question any other way without giving the ending away: "Well, I told Shawn because he's the one that I care most about compared to you guys." I mean, that's the truth, and these guys would have realized that watching the show back. Notice how Kaitlyn slipped last night and said "I was scared he was going to leave." That alone is a huge clue. Of course she didn't feel the same fear towards Ben H., Jared, etc., because she liked Shawn more than anyone of them. To expect her to tell all of the guys, just so it's "fair", does not seem that realistic to me.

[Vicky8675309]

To be fair though, I don't really see how Kaitlyn could have answered that question any other way without giving the ending away: "Well, I told Shawn because he's the one that I care most about compared to you guys." I mean, that's the truth, and these guys would have realized that watching the show back. Notice how Kaitlyn slipped last night and said "I was scared he was going to leave." That alone is a huge clue. Of course she didn't feel the same fear towards Ben H., Jared, etc., because she liked Shawn more than anyone of them. To expect her to tell all of the guys, just so it's "fair", does not seem that realistic to me.

She could have said "Based on my relationship with Shawn I felt like I needed to tell him" or "Yeah, this format is challenging and I can relate some of you being upset. That was not my intent and sometimes there isn't a good answer" or something like that. I thought for two seconds and came up with that…she had months to think of something but she doesn't care--but we know that, which is why the show scrambled for Nick to get on the show imo.

Her keeping guys around who were falling for her seems kind of heartless and better to let them go early if she already made up her mind. I wish JJ and Clint had stayed around longer so they could do their own thing since Kaitlin already had made a choice before really getting to know everyone. Shawn and Kaitlin seem more about passion than genuine love but I hope they prove me wrong. I don't like how she hurt some of the guys or didn't give them a chance and then lied (like, "I see my husband in this room"). I know some of it is just "script" but then it seems so disingenuous and …. I probably shouldn't be watching this show….lol. Maybe they were all losers/gross and she was bright to not to waste her time getting to know most of them….

I use to like Ben H more until I realized he drank the bachelor nation koolaide and sold his soul to be The Bachelor (I'm just guessing he is). He probably would have defended Kaitlin even if he wasn't going to be TB but since I think he knows he is going to be TB then it seems like towing the company line (protect Kaitlin). I don't get the fuss about Ben Z (dead mom). He seems nice but I don't get why the audience was orgasmic over him.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[Iwillnotacceptrose]

I think the reason the show even brought up the whole cyber bullying thing is because Kaitlyn has drawn so much attention to it on social media.  Because there has always been a lot of hateful comments towards past bachelor/ettes.  Remember Juan Pablo?  People said atrocious things about/to him.  Courtney from Ben's season was subject to all this not just from the internet, but also the mainstream media and people coming up to her on the street.

 

I'm not in any way saying it's OK to cyber bully because lots of people do it, I'm just saying that devoting so much time and attention to it is the wrong way to try and stop it.  I've actually seen someone apologize after Kaitlyn retweeted them, but I've also seen people say on the same thread "why do you only respond to negative comments? I've been sending you love for weeks but you never respond."  For every person who apologizes for a comment there are 10 who will see that and do the same hoping for a similar response.  And if you put them on blast and bring your fans' wrath upon them (which sometimes is way worse than the original comment), aren't you then becoming the bully? 

[canaanite2]

(hopping up on soapbox) Slut and whore are insults that are unacceptable in any context.  They are throwbacks to a time when women were made to feel ashamed for enjoying a sex life. Or at least they should be throwbacks. When women use these words to insult other women or defend others who do, they are supporting the idea that women can be labeled and shamed based on what they choose to do with their own bodies. There are plenty of other ways to negatively comment on a woman's behavior as an individual without bringing her gender into it or using words that have a negative connotation on all women. (stepping down from soapbox)

[letters to you]

Ian? You want an Academy Award, hmm? That was amusing.  Own it a little more and you'll get there! ; )  He's quite extreme, that one. Reminds me a lot of someone I used to be in a romantic partnership with.

I do like analyzing people in general and this show is fun for me in that sense.  Others who stand out:

Tanner - Too many words, k?  28 is still quite young but, imo, he sure comes off as immature. Someone else mentioned above that Corey needs a hobby. Maybe he and Tanner can brainstorm. 

Tony: Would have enjoyed hearing some words.  I thought I saw him mouthing something in the background when another person was shown speaking. (?) He is....unique. : )

Kupah: When he vocalizes I get tense, so aggressive!    Which brings me to the opposite: Jared, Ben Z., Ben H. - calm and such an easy flow about the three of them.

Ben H. is eloquent.  I think he would do fine in the dating scene without Show. 

 

Was Justin (90's hair) not there? bummer. I like looking at his pretty face.

 

I still like Kaitlyn. Her jokes are corny and don't usually make me laugh but that's probably the worst I can express. She's a cute tomboy and I have enjoyed her spirit.  Also, I really liked her dark, shorter, thicker hair-do.

[Starla]

I laughed out loud when Chris Harrison said (twice) that this season was a "national controversy," like it's a major political scandal or something. It the freaking Bachelorette, it's not that important.

[saber5055]

I follow a multi-day Jeopardy! champion who was very controversially liked/disliked on SM. He searches for and retweets every mean post about himself. And is disappointed when he can't find anything negative to retweet. THAT'S the way to handle "cyberbulling" IMO, not crying about it on a reality tv show that's been around since forever, and you are on your second tour of duty on said show. Then to cry about "it's so HHAAARD" to be on the show. Please. Reap and sow.

 

I totally agree with Vicky:

 

This is the first "tell all" episode that I did not enjoy. The OTT preempted strike against any Kaitlin backlash from the guys was so obvious and manipulative. Then the hypocrisy of the gay jokes was offensive and I don't get easily offended. The fact that the real questions weren't answered pissed me off.

 

 

This. A thousand times.

 

And Kaitlyn talking smack to bachelors who "voted for Brit" or "might be gay" isn't bullying? On national television? Pot, meet kettle. Kaitlyn, you need to check out your own reflection in that "bullying" mirror. Your "nice hair" comment also was not very nice. It might even be called "bullying" ...

Edited July 21, 2015 by saber5055

[CalamityBoPeep]

Soooo... general consensus is "Delete from your DVR with out watching, BoPeep."  Am I reading the room about right? ;-)

 

Thanks, all!  An hour and a half or so, I don't need to waste!

[MakeMeLaugh]

I am going to put my foot through my tv if I see Kaitlyn assuming the mantle of anitcyberbullying hero and appearing in a The More You Know PSA or whatever they call those things now (the ones where celebrities implore us to be smart or nice or good parents and spouses, you know, the people we already are but they're not). Gag. Talk about jumping on a bandwagon to deflect attention. She has that whole dance instructor career to return to, anyway.

 

I agree 100 percent with the up-posts that her belittling of some of the guys during the season and even during the MTA is worse than anonymous tweets in terms of what happens in real life (the nerdiest or possibly gay kids get picked on until they cannot stand it). Being Chris Harrison's role model and all, I hope she doesn't realize that behavior is not much different than that of the people who sent her random anonymous tweets that seem to have bothered her so much.

 

Death threats? I hope those have been turned over to law enforcement so they can get investigated. Imagine if she were physically attacked by someone who turned out to have sent her a death threat--the producers really need to follow up on those.

 

I remember when this show used to be fun....

Edited July 21, 2015 by MakeMeLaugh

[chocolatine]

Was Justin (90's hair) not there? bummer. I like looking at his pretty face.

 

He was there, just with a different hair style. He sat at the very right of the second row. He's the one Kaitlyn gave the long hug to when the show finished and the credits started rolling.

[slowpoked]

She could have said "Based on my relationship with Shawn I felt like I needed to tell him" or "Yeah, this format is challenging and I can relate some of you being upset. That was not my intent and sometimes there isn't a good answer" or something like that. I thought for two seconds and came up with that…she had months to think of something but she doesn't care--but we know that, which is why the show scrambled for Nick to get on the show imo.

I thought she made that pretty clear when she was explaining how each relationship is different ("compartmentalizing each relationship") and with the level of her relationship with Shawn, she felt that she needed to tell him. She even went one step further and basically said she's afraid to lose him. I think she actually articulated that pretty well last night. Short of saying to Ben H and Jared and others that Shawn is the one she cared most about, therefore he got the "courtesy". I think the guys have to pretty dense not to read that between the lines.

 

As to the "format is challenging and there is no right way to do this", she did say something to that effect, maybe not too eloquently, when she said "I dare you guys to be in this position, date a lot of people publicly, on cameras, on TV and NOT make a single mistake for the audience to judge." Maybe it's too blunt for some, but I get the gist of what she meant. And I for one am glad she said that out loud. I didn't enjoy this season at all, I didn't agree with some of the choices she made and there were other Bachelorettes I liked better (Ashley H., Desiree), but there is just no way to be the perfect bachelorette in any scenario and she nailed that point completely.

 

I think some of her jokes last night were out of place and/or tastless (the gay joke, for one). But to expect that it's ok for the guys to lash out at her (like Kupah did) and Kaitlyn be like a proper, apologetic, quiet good girl without defending herself is a little unfair.

Edited July 22, 2015 by slowpoked

[Vicky8675309]

I don't recall any death threats but I was probably to caught up in my anger about this preempted strike against Kaitlin backlash that I didn't listen closely enough. Was there a death threat? That should go to the cops.

How did Kaitlin know that one of the tweets/emails was written by a mother? What? Was it someone she knew?

Again, the show didn't mind bullying Juan Pablo for not towing the company line. They seemed ok with his sleaze until he refused to answer CH about if he said he loved Nikki. I'm not a fan of Juan Pablo but good on him for telling the show to metaphorically fuck off. At least he didn't sell his "soul" to bachelor nation and seemed fine with coming out looking like a jerk (kudos to that guy…still not a fan but I'm glad he did that to the show but I hope it didn't upset Nikki). He stopped playing the game:)

Guys or gals having sex isn't the issue I have. It is all the other behavior that stemmed from it. Also it doesn't matter if it was a woman or man who did the sleeping around but how it was handled….try not to hurt others.

Ben H seems nice but he is very vanilla. What is Arie up to these days and is he coupled up?

JJ seems to have lost his job…his title had "former….." (can't remember the actual job).

This is weird but I'm more interested in finding out if JJ and Clint are friends again more then I am interested in who Kaitlin choses. I don't think jj and clint are guy and I think they hit it off as friends. I think JJ genuinely felt bad about throwing clint under the bus. I know the show edited them to look gay and maybe they were playing it up for airtime. Yeah they were obnoxious but I found them to be funny--funnier than Kaitlin.

I think Kaitlin needs to wait before settling down. She can't be the poster child for anti-cyberbullying since she is a bully--at least she still was on TMTA. She wasn't "telling it like it is" because she made "jokes" to embarrass people and deflect. Trying to embarrass/hurt someone doesn't seem to fit with an anti-cyberbully campaign.

Jared is still in love with kaitlin so I guess he didn't have a good BIP experience. He seems like a nice guy.

I was so looking forward to TMTA and am so pissed that it was just propaganda I am posting more than usual. They ruined the episode that is usually the highlight of every season for me.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[Vicky8675309]

I thought she made that pretty clear when she was explaining how each relationship is different ("compartmentalizing each relationship") and with the level of her relationship with Shawn, she felt that she needed to tell him. She even went one step further and basically said she's afraid to lose him. I think she actually articulated that pretty well last night. Short of saying to Ben H and Jared and others that Shawn is the one she cared most about, therefore he got the "courtesy". I think the guys have to pretty dense not to read that between the lines.

 

As to the "format is challenging and there is no right way to do this", she did say something to that effect, maybe not too eloquently, when she said "I dare you guys to be in this position, date a lot of people publicly, on cameras, on TV and NOT make a single mistake for the audience to judge." Maybe it's too blunt for some, but I get the gist of what she meant. And I for one am glad she said that out loud. I didn't enjoy this season at all, I didn't agree with some of the choices she made and there were other Bachelorettes I liked better (Ashley H., Desiree), but there is just no way to be the perfect bachelorette in any scenario and she nailed that point completely.

 

I think some of her jokes last night were out of place and/or tastless (the gay joke, for one). But to expect that it's ok for the guys to lash out at her (like Kupah did) and Kaitlyn be like a proper, apologetic, quiet good girl without defending herself is a little unfair.

 

 

She said something about Shawn valuing honesty which implies the others didn't value honesty. Horrible answer imo

[backformore]

I laughed out loud when Chris Harrison said (twice) that this season was a "national controversy," like it's a major political scandal or something. It the freaking Bachelorette, it's not that important.

I was talking to some women at work who all watched the show.  Every one of them watches "for the wrong reason".   The younger women said that they used to watch the bachelor/ette shows for the love story, but now they laugh and snark on the show, and think it's all fake and hilarious.   And they all think Ben H is adorable. 

 

I agree 100 percent with the up-posts that her belittling of some of the guys during the season and even during the MTA is worse than anonymous tweets in terms of what happens in real life (the nerdiest or possibly gay kids get picked on until they cannot stand it). Being Chris Harrison's role model and all, I hope she doesn't realize that behavior is not much different than that of the people who sent her random anonymous tweets that seem to have bothered her so much.

 

Excellent point.   I don't care for Kaitlyn.  But my problem with her has nothing to do with thinking she's a whore/slut who had sex when she shouldn't have.  It's more that she didn't respect the guys, all season, who were there to try to have a relationship with her.   As soon as she is intimate with one, she is closer to him, and closing doors to getting to know the others.   At the MTA, she continued with that attitude.  Each guy there (Ok, not Ian)  was rejected by her.  Some right off the bat, others after developing feelings for her.   I just don't think that she was attentive to their feelings, when she continued to basically make fun of them.  

Cyber-bullying is a HUGE problem for kids when you know it's from kids who know you from school.  It makes you feel vulnerable and afraid.  strangers who don't know you, making comments about an adult on a reality show, does not have the same impact.   But when she essentially bullies guys who were competing for her hand in marriage, and whom she already rejected - that's pretty cruel. 

[wovenloaf]

Regarding how Kaitlyn knew one of the email was written by a mother (I can't get the quote function to work on tablet!):

I believe the email said something along the lines of "I hope you die so that my daughter will know bad things happen when you act like a whore."

Am I remembering that correctly? I really hope that lady's poor daughter never does anything wrong... =(

[Sayla Vee]

Here's hoping Cupcake didn't get any time because he's the next Bachelor.   That much cheese deserves it's own season. 

 

I kind of thought Cupcake was quiet because he probably didn't get death threats, but he did get hit a bit hard on SM.  I think even he has to be embarassed about the crying scene.  It really was over the top, and I liked him before that.  I'm not so sure that didn['t take him out of the running.

 

 

 

What about Amy Schluer (sp?) and her treatment of JJ? It was hilarious but it was mean…was it bullying. Were the audience bullies? Whatever….

 

 

I think her name has an m in it.....Amy Schumer or whatever.  Given that CH brought Kaitlyn out with the tragic news of her cyber bullying, why in the heck was this even included.  I didn't find it funny.  Maybe it was, but I was just so offended after the lecture about being kind to Kait, and then poor Kait treats J.J. this way.  And I'm not fond of J.J.  

 

And Kaitlyn talking smack to bachelors who "voted for Brit" or "might be gay" isn't bullying? On national television? Pot, meet kettle. Kaitlyn, you need to check out your own reflection in that "bullying" mirror. Your "nice hair" comment also was not very nice. It might even be called "bullying" ...

 

Yeah, this.  Plus she put out mean tweets/comments every week about the guys, especially those who were being rejected.  I thought nice hair was particularly rude.  The guy just apologized for his behavior and gave her a rose, for crying out loud.

 

 

JJ seems to have lost his job…his title had "former….." (can't remember the actual job).

 

Question.  How do any of these guys keep a job.  Many of them go from TB to Paradise.  Would any company keep them on with this much time spent on reality TV.   Do they get paid enough to do these shows that they can afford to give up permanent work?  There are only so many reality shows, after all.

 

 

[Vicky8675309]

ok, sounds like the nut job is a mother. Well everyone dies so her mean tweet is ridiculous. Calling someone a "whore" is so misogynistic that I find it annoying that people who are unhappy with Kaitlin's actions as The Bachelorette are attributed to them being "slut-shaming misogynists". I can see disliking Kaitlin for how she treats people and I would feel that same if a male treated people the same as she does. Not all Kaitlin dislikers are sexist and/or prudish. I just happen to think people shouldn't treat other people like shit due to their own selfish wants…should try to not lie and should try not be hypocrites….be respectful of other people's feeling. No, don't be a doormat but find some middle ground. Don't claim someone is "the one" then hurt him (or her) by having sex with someone else. Don't claim your husband is in the room then claim you want to explore another option…In other words think before you speak and think of others in addition to yourself and not just yourself.

Whores are honest about what they do so it's kind of an insult to whores to call Kaitlin a whore;-) Kaitlin is not a whore. She is many things but I would not say "whore"…just selfish and uncaring imo.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Vicky8675309

[NikSac]

I wrote earlier about my son knowing Ben H. Ben is known as a high character, mature guy who gives back to the community. He really is a great person, according to his friends, and they are also really good people, so I can believe it.

 

Hooray I'm glad you posted again! It was driving me crazy last night trying to remember who had posted about their son knowing Ben H.  I must say after having watched the whole season he's my favorite. I'm not sure if I'm happy for him or sad for him that he's (reportedly) the new Bachelor, but I really do feel he deserves better - or maybe the word's not even better, just different - from Kaitlyn, so I hope he finds that.

Actually, they did ask them to not wear prints or black, and to wear brighter colors.

 

I remember reading this about other shows that involve audiences too, so maybe it's a normal thing. I notice it way more on this show than others, though.

Edited July 22, 2015 by NikSac

[tpplay]

 

 

I can't get over Kaitlyn saying, "It hurt my family!"  Sweetie, maybe your family is hurt because they are embarrassed.  When someone behaves the way you did on national television, it reflects on who he/she is, how they were raised and what they were taught.

 

 

 

She actually said her family called her and said, "Are you okay?"

 

I'm sorry.  But what she did on national TV was decide she wanted to have sex with someone.  Same as Ben F (without mentioning it) did and same as lots and lots of people did.

 

If someone were to write my daughter an email that said I hope you die, I wouldn't care if she slept with EVERY SINGLE ONE of the bachelor contestants - that is just plain NOT OKAY.

 

Since when do women who decide to have sex with someone on or off TV and whether they declare that was a mistake or not, deserve DEATH THREATS.

 

Good God.

 

That. Is. Crazy.  THAT is crazy.  Kaitlyn is not crazy.  THAT is crazy.

[backformore]

I don't think anyone is saying she DESERVED death threats.  But "I hope you die"  isn't really a threat.   It's not OK, it's not nice, it's ugly and hateful, but it's not a threat.   It's just an ignorant person's way of expressing their dislike for someone.   it's the modern day equivalent of writing a nasty comment on a bathroom wall.  

 

As I said before, for years people have been saying nasty things online about reality TV people.   It's not RIGHT, but it happens.  And calling people out on TV for doing it  just gives them attention. 

[Padma]

I'd take Kaitlyn's suffering and hurt over all the horrible cyberbullies attacking her more to heart IF she had shown one ounce of compassion for JJ and Clint being ridiculed again and again for behavior people thought made them seem homosexual. Not only did poor, sweet Kaitlyn with her great sensitivity for ridicule of others, NOT come to their defense, she came prepared to mock them some more! (The second "joke"--which I've fortunately forgotten--a quote from some movie--was obviously prepared ahead of time; the "Of course Clint is sitting behind JJ" was spontaneous. (I liked that it took so long for people to get it, and so few laughed like she wanted.)  She's mean and she's a hypocrite. But CH protected her from criticism.

 

She shouldn't be mocked with ugly slurs for what some see as loose morals (and deceiving men who like her over it).  But I don't see why people can't call her out on it if they feel her behavior was dishonest and her "explanation" to Ben H was insulting to every man there but Shawn.

[call me ishmael]

I thought it was pretty clear that none of the three things read on the air were the death threats she was referring to. As she described them they were much more precise in their knowledge of where she was physically etc. I think the three CH read were pretty horrible but i suspect that there were a lot worse.

I blame the show much more than Kaitlyn. They are the ones who chose to edit her that way. I doubt that she is the first one to have sex before the fantasy suites or the first one who basically knew who she was picking very quickly. And i really don't see why it is different for her to have sex with a couple of them during the show as opposed to having sex with 3 different guys in the fantasy suite. Except she didn't wait till Fleis told her it was okay.

As far as calling out the guys who voted for Britt, i may have missed something but the one i saw was a guy who claimed that he was on the show to see what happened with her and then she brought in someone new. So she pointed out that he had actually been there hoping it was Britt. A bit sharp but a legitimate comeback i think.

Not that i think she should have let Nick back on. But CH aside i doubt that was purely her decision.

[Former Nun]

But "I hope you die"  isn't really a threat.   It's not OK, it's not nice, it's ugly and hateful, but it's not a threat.

 

 

Thank you, backformore.    Posting the Tweets on the show was silly and inflammatory (dichotomy?).  I belong to the camp that believes the Tweets were written by Production staff...either for the Men Tell All show or during the regular weekly broadcast.  I'd bet Kaitlyn, Chris Harrison, people in Production, and most of the bachelors have said worse to each other or about each other.  It's time to remove the fainting couches, pull up their big-girl panties and get on with life.

[himela]

I don't agree with Kaitlyn's choice to sleep with a guy on tv not because she has no right to do what she wants with her body but because sadly enough she is seen as a role model for many young women or girls whose parents can't be there for them, can't protect them from watching this (and other similar) show and/or are not educated enough to teach their kids not to take a random person on tv as an example. Kaitlyn should have been aware of this and be more careful. I hate that what my daughter (if I had one) would learn from this show is that it's ok to have sex with someone without any feelings for them. Gross.

[JudyObscure]

As soon as she is intimate with one, she is closer to him, and closing doors to getting to know the others.

 

Exactly, and it's why so many of us didn't like Ben sleeping with Courtney  -- and we were free to say so without getting slut-shamer shamed.

 

Kaitlyn is so lucky that there's a big social push right now toward allowing women to be sexually free without calling them names.  I'm all for that, but I still hold women to the same standards as I do men, about honesty in relationships, playing this Bachelor/ette game in a fair manor, and not embarrassing your family while the cameras are rolling.

 

Emily came into the franchise as an un-wed mother who had become pregnant with another woman's fiancée.   She was then chosen by Brad, who later went on camera saying she had a terrible temper and screamed bad language during their frequent fights. Later she chose, Jef and one of his brothers reported the same thing about the fights.  I'll bet she got quite a few ugly tweets about all of that. Yet, I thought Emily was a great Bachleorette.  She was fair and kind to all the men, gracious with their families, gentle in her rejections and maintained the sort of on-camera behavior we would want our daughters to emulate.  Her TMTA didn't require begging for sympathy  by digging up the mean tweets.

 

Kaitlyn was just the opposite, the most boring, humorless, rude B'ette ever, making men punch each other, getting excited over it, then giving the rose to the "winner," forgetting why Ben Z might be hurt by the casket thing, turning angry at the first hint of criticism, and her over all manner destroyed every bit of romantic fantasy for any Right Reasons watcher.  It's probably a good thing she did sleep with Nick because, after that, it made anyone who didn't like her for those other things in danger of being called  a woman hating slut-shamer. 

 

Editing?  After seeing how she acted on TMTA where there was little time for voice overs and corrections, I would say the editors have been working hard in her favor all season.

[anony mouse]

Considering some of the things they've edited out that we saw on TMTA - smelling feet, picking her nose, hiding in Shawn and Ben's room, all the Nick ridiculousness etc. I agree that she's received as good an edit as she could get. Blame the producers all you want for the alleged "slut shaming," but she gave them the footage to do so.

I've said from day one I've found her behavior crass and tasteless, and nothing has changed in that regard. I judge her by the same standard I judge the men on this show, and I find it a double standard when that criticism is fine, but when it's leveled at a woman, it suddenly becomes taboo.

Edited July 22, 2015 by starving artist

[ByTor]

Not all Kaitlin dislikers are sexist and/or prudish.

Thank you!  I really don't care if she slept with all the contestants, Britt, the crew, and some random guys at the Ireland bars.  I personally am not a fan of her loud, boorish behavior and her "hearty laughs" at her own lame jokes.  I also don't like "I value honesty" followed by death glares to those whose honesty is negativity against her.

Edited July 22, 2015 by ByTor

[leighdear]

I agree with those saying It's not about the sex. 

 

Really, it's NOT.ABOUT.THE.SEX.

 

It's about a woman displaying careless, thoughtless and self-serving behavior to the world, then wanting to be admired for it.  It's about a woman lying when she didn't have to, then trying to cover it up with more lies.  It's about a woman that showed no grace, tolerance or compassion, yet expected it from others.  And she got paid for it.  

 

Again, it's not about the sex.

[b2H]

I have a hard time blaming Kaitlyn for the dates, in general.  The producers were absolutely awful and they are the ones to be blamed for the dates.

 

Physical violence in an uncontrolled setting is not a date.  Sorry.

[canaanite2]

 

I don't agree with Kaitlyn's choice to sleep with a guy on tv not because she has no right to do what she wants with her body but because sadly enough she is seen as a role model for many young women or girls whose parents can't be there for them, can't protect them from watching this (and other similar) show and/or are not educated enough to teach their kids not to take a random person on tv as an example. Kaitlyn should have been aware of this and be more careful. I hate that what my daughter (if I had one) would learn from this show is that it's ok to have sex with someone without any feelings for them. Gross.

 

Well, it actually is okay for consenting adults to have sex with each other without a commitment being attached to it, and it's not automatically gross. Men have been doing this for eons and will continue to do this without the fear of being labeled and minimized as a human being. Why shouldn't women? Responsible adults having sex is not a bad thing and no one, man or woman, should be made to feel that it is. Communication is the tricky part, and this is where Kaitlyn failed. But that failure goes well beyond sex.  In fact, the biggest complaints of her misleading the men had more to do with her words, not her actions. Shawn was focused on her telling him he's the one and never mentioned physical intimacy.

 

When young women don't have positive female role models they will have harder time navigating through life no matter what. The entire media world shouldn't be expected to cater to this demographic of young women (with the exception of entertainment that is specifically targeting young women). That's why it's important for all women to step up and pick up the slack as a community.  Hopefully, for those young women who watched this season without an adult explaining things to them, the negative message that a woman having sex is shameful will have been offset by the support Kaitlyn received for being called a whore on MTA. I blame the producers for editing and sculpting this narrative that Kaitlyn was a bad girl for having sex one night, but the women out there on the internet who excuse the ones who took the producer's bait are just as much to blame IMO.

 

 

I've said from day one I've found her behavior crass and tasteless, and nothing has changed in that regard. I judge her by the same standard I judge the men on this show, and I find it a double standard when that criticism is fine, but when it's leveled at a woman, it suddenly becomes taboo.

 

Since when have the men been cyberbullied primarily for having sex? There are legitimate reasons for disliking Kaitlyn, but her sex life has been the main focus of the attacks for no other reason than she is a female. There can't be a double standard when the playing field isn't equal to begin with. 

Edited July 22, 2015 by canaanite2

[truthaboutluv]

I don't agree with Kaitlyn's choice to sleep with a guy on tv not because she has no right to do what she wants with her body but because sadly enough she is seen as a role model for many young women or girls whose parents can't be there for them, can't protect them from watching this (and other similar) show and/or are not educated enough to teach their kids not to take a random person on tv as an example. Kaitlyn should have been aware of this and be more careful. I hate that what my daughter (if I had one) would learn from this show is that it's ok to have sex with someone without any feelings for them. Gross.

 

I am sorry, YMMV, but if I had a daughter I would tell them not to look to The Bachelor/ette for any kind of role models period. The only thing to watch this mess for is for the snark and entertainment and somewhere in there, if you're lucky, a decent couple like Des and Chris for example, might come out of the season. But I cannot understand ANYONE looking to this show for any kind of morality or role models.

 

The whole damn premise of this stupid franchise is on some level very sexist, which is why they inevitably added The Bachelorette spin-off so it wasn't just about a guy picking among a bunch of women. It's a corny reality show with a bunch of mostly famewhores. I suggest looking for morality and standards and role models elsewhere.  I have never understood this notion that once it's on television, suddenly it's all about "what about the kids and you're a role model, etc." No, there's a lot of television that's just trashy reality television that isn't looking to make any moral statement for anyone and no one should be expecting it IMO.

Edited July 22, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[anony mouse]

Well, it actually is okay for consenting adults to have sex with each other without a commitment being attached to it, and it's not automatically gross. Men have been doing this for eons and will continue to do this without the fear of being labeled and minimized as a human being. Why shouldn't women? Responsible adults having sex is not a bad thing and no one, man or woman, should be made to feel that it is. Communication is the tricky part, and this is where Kaitlyn failed. But that failure goes well beyond sex. In fact, the biggest complaints of her misleading the men had more to do with her words, not her actions. Shawn was focused on her telling him he's the one and never mentioned physical intimacy.

When young women don't have positive female role models they will have harder time navigating through life no matter what. The entire media world shouldn't be expected to cater to this demographic of young women (with the exception of entertainment that is specifically targeting young women). That's why it's important for all women to step up and pick up the slack as a community. Hopefully, for those young women who watched this season without an adult explaining things to them, the negative message that a woman having sex is shameful will have been offset by the support Kaitlyn received for being called a whore on MTA. I blame the producers for editing and sculpting this narrative that Kaitlyn was a bad girl for having sex one night, but the women out there on the internet who excuse the ones who took the producer's bait are just as much to blame IMO.

Since when have the men been cyberbullied primarily for having sex? There are legitimate reasons for disliking Kaitlyn, but her sex life has been the main focus of the attacks for no other reason than she is a female. There can't be a double standard when the playing field isn't equal to begin with.

Juan Pablo and Nick Viall, most recently. The men in this show have not been exempt from internet commentary some would term "cyber bullying."