S11.E09: Week 8

[backformore]

Also, to me, the only explanation for these men professing their loves is because of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

Yeah, we should rename it 'Bachelortte syndrome'.   Six men locked up in isolation with only one sparkly-dressed woman, each willing to beat the shit out of each other for her attention.  the only chance for happiness is to be chosen, and those not chosen are doomed to be miserable.  

 

It approaches the level of psychotic delusion, for sure.  

[KR Vermont]

Yeah, we should rename it 'Bachelortte syndrome'.   Six men locked up in isolation with only one sparkly-dressed woman, each willing to beat the shit out of each other for her attention.  the only chance for happiness is to be chosen, and those not chosen are doomed to be miserable.  

 

It approaches the level of psychotic delusion, for sure.

Don't you mean the only chance for happiness is to NOT be chosen? That gets you out of the insanity bubble that is TB/ette.

[nutty1]

I only have one thing to add......Jared!! A class act, better than most others from all seasons combined!!

I liked Cupcake too, especially when he admitted on GMA to laughing at himself while watching his "breakdown"!

[Mabinogia]

I'm pretty sure the extent of these guys "love" for Kaitlyn is in the free flowing booze, meals and free vacation. Joe and Jared's (are those the two that were cut? Where two cut? I know Joe was, I remember the bench, but was another guy cut at a rose ceremony? I hate that we don't get the usual end of episode rose ceremony because it confuses me when we don't) total lack of interest in being cut is kind of proof of that. They had a good few days in Ireland, they're ready to go.

 

I have a feeling everyone not named Shawn or The Other Guy knew they weren't in the running and were just enjoying the free vacation. I almost like the season better that way, a group of pals having fun abroad and pretending to like a girl so they can continue to hang out. Since she was never into any of them and they seem to know it, I don't have to feel bad for anyone. It's kind of refreshing.

[Palomar]

This season is such a bust.  I am not spoiled but I can only imagine one ending, where Kaitlyn ends up with "ringer" Nick.  I truly believe they had a relationship (at the very least a sexting one) and she just amused herself with Shawn until Nick arrived on the scene.  I really hope I am right as the only thing worse than this season would be a season of Nick as the Bachelor if he somehow lost. I do have to admit I would love to see if Nick cries about doing fiancé things with Kaitlyn twice if he somehow does not get picked (but I think he would probably rather be the Bachelor anyway). Ben H. is way to normal to be on this show. 

[Andromeda]

Sharleen speculates it was to punish Kaitlyn for breaking the rules often:

 

And I wouldn't have guessed this week's buzz word for the drinking game: "The Other Guy"! To whoever had that, kudos to you. I was banking on "hardest" and "toughest".

Thanks, Slowpoked! I shared that with my viewing family.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Andromeda

[Former Nun]

Also, to me, the only explanation for these men professing their loves is because of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

 

Or....(1) Famewhore Syndrome    (2)  I'm THAT handsome and talented and this WILL allow me a long and successful showbiz career (as long as she doesn't choose me).

 

Someone mentioned earlier how Nick puts his fingers in front of his lips (sometimes) when he talks.  I wonder if he's trying to keep from laughing.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Former Nun

[The Evil One]

I swear this episode was the slowest 97 hours of my life.

[FireFoxy]

I knew Kaitlyn would be a  trainwreck and people would turn on her, but wow, I thought they would at least wait until the season ended. I never thought I would see anyone be worse than DeAnna, and yet here we are. Even Jen who was going through the motions manage to have interested conversations with her men. Kaitlyn is dumb, self centered, and truly can't form a coherent though. At this point I think even the guys deserve better, even Shawn who is being a Stage 55 Clinger.

[sofiah]

This season is such a downer.  

 

Kaitlyn looks downright miserable all the time.  She is always "shaking right now" and she always "feels sick" and every week is the "hardest one yet".

 

I like Kaitlyn, but she is an awful, awful, awful bachelorette.  

 

She is really bad at pretending to be interested in the guys.  I actually think she was trying to give Joe an out by asking him if he'd be comfortable being engaged at the end of the process.  I think she figured they were so obviously not "connected" that maybe he'd say something more along the lines of "yeah, well, that would be moving pretty fast..." and then she could segway into a nice little break-up.  When Joe, instead, told her he loved her, or could kiss her for 60 years (or whatever that was) the look on her face was so obviously one of 'really?  you've got to be kidding me' 

 

Also, the dynamic between her and Shawn is so messed up.  The intense looks, the weird silences.  I know a lot of it is probably editing - but really, it seems like they are constantly talking in code.  

 

The morning after scene with Nick was weird because they were actually eating!  Meals on this show never get touched!

[leighdear]

I think Ick went into the social media flirtation with Kaitlyn for laughs and to stay connected to the franchise.  He SERIOUSLY lucked out when she took his Twitter bait, and that started this entire murky, unrecognizable and unsettling season.  No real downside for Ick, he gets more time on the fame-train and some more TV sex with someone who's as much of an exhibitionist as he is.

 

I think Kaitlyn's only real concern now is scrambling to keep Shawn on the hook, because I don't think she gives a happy crap about Ick.  He's strictly entertainment for her and a way to burn screen time until she can get back in Shawn's pants for reals. 

 

Ben doesn't even register for her as a legit option for her endgame.  Whatever twisted and freakish scenario that is. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by leighdear

[Padma]

Do we know that they're really having a Men Tell All this season?

 

That seems like it couldn't be anything other than a pile on that will embarrass Kaitlyn, be way over what CH can moderate, and shows how the show really went off the rails this season.

 

Are the producers really going to be up for that? Have they decided this season is -that- unsalvageable and will just say "WTH" and do anything for ratings?

[leighdear]

MTA is supposed to be taping in LA this coming weekend.  

[atlanticslide]

Yeah, we should rename it 'Bachelortte syndrome'.   Six men locked up in isolation with only one sparkly-dressed woman, each willing to beat the shit out of each other for her attention.  the only chance for happiness is to be chosen, and those not chosen are doomed to be miserable.  

 

It approaches the level of psychotic delusion, for sure.  

Seriously though, I think Ashley (I? The Kardasian one, not the crazy one) pretty much said as much when she appeared on Jimmy Kimmel after her final episode last season - if I recall correctly, she said something along the lines of when you're in that environment and there's this one person that you're pushed so hard to fixate on, you get very wrapped up in the melodrama of it all. Add to that all of the alcohol they're consuming and the lack of any real outlets for any of this and I can see how emotions run high and people get attached when in other circumstances they might not.

Edited July 8, 2015 by atlanticslide

[LakeGal]

My niece and her friends just adore Kaitlyn.  They think the show is trying to make her look bad and they resent it.  Maybe it is a generation thing about how Kaitlyn is viewed and her actions.  The ratngs do seem to be good this season.

[atlanticslide]

I know she's not to everyone's tastes, but I still like Kaitlyn. Hell, I still like Shawn too (kinda). I'm enjoying this season. I think Kaitlyn seems like a decent person who'd be fun to hang out with. I have no idea if she's on the show for "the right reasons" but considering how few of these couples actually stay together, I don't really care if she's there to meet her husband or if she's there to make out with a bunch of dudes. I do think she's really not good at pretending to be interested in some of them, but even that is kind of refreshing to me - this is such a weird, weird way to date/fall in love/start a relationship, so I can't blame anyone for not adhering perfectly to the TV show script, and in fact I find it kind of interesting and different to see how she's (consciously and unconsciously) made it pretty clear who she's interested in.

 

So yeah. Considering how different this season has been from others, I get why people aren't enjoying it, but to me it definitely hasn't been a trainwreck.

[econ07]

Am I the only one who would want my potential spouse to choose NOT to sleep with other people while considering me for marriage.  And then for her to tell Shawn ... "You have to trust me." ?!?!  Shawn dude, have some self-respect and leave.

[Superpole2000]

I don't buy the Nick storyline as presented on this season. She talks about it a lot, she seems endlessly remorseful (especially considering Nick himself is in the final 3), she left her microphone in the room and was just so obvious about it all when she started sighing it up with Nick, and she has gone out of her way to drop all of this on Shawn. None of these actions are typical of someone who is genuinely deciding between two guys. It feels like Shawn was/is her guy, but Nick was brought in to have (fake) sex with her and provide (fake) drama. It feels like Nick and Kaitlyn are in on it, and I cannot decide whether Shawn knows it is all a TV ruse. Of course, then I wonder why would Kaitlyn bother going along with this storyline, but money could explain that.

[bobbyjoe]

Never forget the penny-pinching that this show now emphasizes.  Ireland is cheap, flights notwithstanding.

 

I'm calling this season The Bargain Bin Bachelorette.

 

I don't think we're ever leaving Ireland.  They'll probably change the family visits to Skype calls... from Ireland! 

 

BTW, that prison Nick and Kaitlyn were in with the creepy wax figures being tortured?  Totally another metaphor for this season.

[himela]

This is the first time I have enjoyed watching an episode of this season and I have gained some respect for Kaitlyn. Revealing her having sex with Nick to Shawn and the way she handled it showed her mature and serious side that I was so much missing in both seasons. In my opinion Ben is the only worthful person in there at the moment. Both Nick and Shawn have major red flags and I do hope Kaitlyn sees them sooner than later. Jared was sweet but he didnt seem ready for marriage - not that Kaitlyn does.

[JudyObscure]

As much as I might enjoy a big pile on at The Men Tell All, I don't see that happening. No one really seemed angry at being cut except for Joe, who couldn't verbalize his way through a McDonald's order and Ian who, by now, is probably all about back peddling and apologizing in order to save face.   I would love to see someone tell Kaitlyn that he had thought she would make the season fun, but the only time he really saw her laugh was while they were beating each other up, and another guy could say, "Every time I attempted a serious conversation, you just wanted to kiss,  and no that doesn't mean I'm a virgin," but  the only one I can picture really being honest is Tanner, and he might just say, "What the hell, Kaitlyn?"

[Rainsong]

 

As much as I might enjoy a big pile on at The Men Tell All, I don't see that happening.

 

For those who were genuinely interested in Kaitlyn, they will watch episodes after their exit and say 'I had a lucky escape.'

 

For those who were eager to leave even if they didn't show it at the time, they will say 'I had a lucky escape.'

[sofiah]

I don't buy the Nick storyline as presented on this season. She talks about it a lot, she seems endlessly remorseful (especially considering Nick himself is in the final 3), she left her microphone in the room and was just so obvious about it all when she started sighing it up with Nick, and she has gone out of her way to drop all of this on Shawn. None of these actions are typical of someone who is genuinely deciding between two guys. It feels like Shawn was/is her guy, but Nick was brought in to have (fake) sex with her and provide (fake) drama. It feels like Nick and Kaitlyn are in on it, and I cannot decide whether Shawn knows it is all a TV ruse. Of course, then I wonder why would Kaitlyn bother going along with this storyline, but money could explain that.

 

Yeah, I thought that to.   The ease of Kaitlyn and Nick's morning after scene struck me -- when she is with him, she feels absolutely no guilt, remorse, doubt, etc.  This makes me think that they simply might have some sort of agreement.  He knows he's not the one, she knows he's not the one, they're just having a good time.  

 

It's almost as if Kaitlyn's crazy guilt when she is with Shawn does beyond just having slept with Nick.  Sometimes she looks at Shawn with these crazy eyes that seem to scream out 'Shawn! I'm just pretending about this whole thing, I have to pretend... calm down!'  Her talking heads where she basically says "I shouldn't have told Shawn he was the one... I like the other guys too, really I do!" are a little too much... and she also seems to be a total weeping unhappy mess most of the time.  I think something disingenuous is going on, and she feels pretty bad about it.  

 

This is just speculation on my part though, not spoiled!

[himela]

Yes I have speculated this is the case since last week, meaning Kaitlyn and Nick have an agreement to create drama and the rest of the people know nothing about it. Is it that much of a coincidence that the guy who was known for the line "why did you make love with me since you thought I was not the one?" is now given the opportunity to use this same line once more?

 

Not buying it.

[FamilyVan]

For a clue at how phony Nick is, see the scene where Kaitlyn tries to prank him about the prison cell room.  He is like "This is great".  That was not a real reaction at all, but a reaction of someone very conscious of everything.  His game plan is no matter what it is, be into it, and win.  

Edited July 8, 2015 by FamilyVan

[Dr Witchbaby]

Her kicking off Joe was so confusing. I didn’t hear her say the usual “I have to send you home,” so wasn’t sure if she was sending him home, and he wasn’t either! He asked “What do I do now?” because he honestly didn’t know. Silly woman, just be CLEAR and tell him! So poorly done.

 

Same with talking to Shawn. She never really explained why she was telling him about sleeping with Nick, and he even came back and asked why she had told him. She is a really awful communicator. She repeats the same phrase over and over, and waits for the guy to say something, and he's stuck guessing at what she means and awkwardly trying to fill in the blanks.

 

I think part of the problem is that she uses "I can't imagine saying goodbye to you" as code for "I am actually saying goodbye to you right this second." I've noticed her doing this with a couple guys this season; they've all seemed (understandably) pretty confused as it's happening.

 

But I did think it was hilarious when Joe was like, "I don't know what to do now ... what do I do?" And Kaitlyn kept responding like, "You have to do whatever you need to do, we both just have to try to put these emotions that we've shared behind us, you have to do whatever you can to recover from this heartbreak and move on." And you could tell that Joe was like, "No I mean WHERE IS MY SUITCASE. DO I NEED TO FIND MY OWN RIDE TO THE AIRPORT. I assume the producers don't intend for me to just live on this bench now so WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO INSTEAD."

[MakeMeLaugh]

I think I am over watching this show. We were not able to watch Monday night and are still out of town. Being thoroughly spoiled, I know what happens, but have still watched, but the enjoyment really isn't there. The idea of another episode of Nick's Kaitlyn-licking foreplay makes me gag. No one is having any fun and whoever told Kaitlyn she has a great sense of humor is a big fat liar. Will check in for the MTA and ATFR. Just hurry up and finish it, Show, and make these three leads slink back into their little lives, whatever they really are. And don't make me have to ever see them again.

If the next season is going to be like this one, I'm passing on it.

[waving feather]

And you could tell that Joe was like, "No I mean WHERE IS MY SUITCASE. DO I NEED TO FIND MY OWN RIDE TO THE AIRPORT. I assume the producers don't intend for me to just live on this bench now so WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO INSTEAD."

 

Bwahaha. Too true. Joe was asking her where should he go next since he's eliminated now. Joe could have taken the break-up better but I think he was just done with her. Like he looked like he didn't even wanna waste his time saying empty goodbyes to her. And it's crazy that she couldn't leave it alone and kept trying to coax emotion out of him.

[CindyBee]

As much as I might enjoy a big pile on at The Men Tell All, I don't see that happening. No one really seemed angry at being cut except for Joe, who couldn't verbalize his way through a McDonald's order and Ian who, by now, is probably all about back peddling and apologizing in order to save face.   I would love to see someone tell Kaitlyn that he had thought she would make the season fun, but the only time he really saw her laugh was while they were beating each other up, and another guy could say, "Every time I attempted a serious conversation, you just wanted to kiss,  and no that doesn't mean I'm a virgin," but  the only one I can picture really being honest is Tanner, and he might just say, "What the hell, Kaitlyn?"

 

And another reason I don't see the "Men Tell All" being all that combative is that [alert: Spoiler for Bachelor in Paradise]

SEVEN of the guys have since gone to Mexico and drank themselves silly on ABC's dime, along with hanging out at the pool with a bunch of farmer Chris rejects.

   They do their duty and show up for the taping on Saturday and then find their way to the after party.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Rhondinella
spoiler tag

[ljenkins782]

 

Katlyin does not do a good job on the group dates. Nick, Joe and Shawn were supposed to go out on a date, and ended up freezing on a bench,

Seriously, WAS there a point to that date? Were they on their way somewhere else when Shawn and then Nick pulled her off to hang out on the lawn or was sitting on that bench supposed to be the whole date? Because that was like any old cocktail party arrangement minus the booze and heating and 2 contestants. 

 

 

Joe trying to kiss Kailyn while Kaitlyn was ducking her forehead to avoid lip contact was cringeworthy. Joe was a little slow on the uptake there. He needs to learn how to read body language, especially when he is about to declare his love for someone.

Oof, that was awkward to watch. I thought she was telegraphing the future when she asked him repeatedly whether or not he was ready to be engaged. He kept answering and she kept saying "But REALLY, we'd be engaged...you sure you're ready for that???" 

 

Also, the face she was making during his declaration of love was a major clue that he missed. However, I do think she could have stopped him earlier instead of letting him go through his whole "I'm falling in love with you" speech before ditching him.

 

That being said, I really don't think Joe had any feelings for her, I think that was a half-hearted last ditch effort at keeping the gravy train on track. He got remarkably far without really participating in the basic premise so he got a pretty good deal overall. 

 

 

Her kicking off Joe was so confusing. I didn’t hear her say the usual “I have to send you home,” so wasn’t sure if she was sending him home, and he wasn’t either! He asked “What do I do now?” because he honestly didn’t know. Silly woman, just be CLEAR and tell him! So poorly done.

 

I think he knew he was cut, but was just confused by the logistics of the situation. Like "do I just sit here on this bench while YOU walk away or is there is a specific place I'm supposed to walk out?" Given that this alleged group date took place on a random bench and then she dumped him on another random bench, it doesn't appear that they had a staged walk out area. Probably would have been better to just have a damn rose ceremony so everyone knows where to go when they're cut. 

 

 

Shawn used to be OK, but he has completely veered into pathetic territory. Huge alarm bells with that one. Way too possessive this early. Shawn going to The Other Guy's room and throwing a fit was so pathetic. I was on Nick's side there. What was the point of that? (I hope the producers, and not the hotel, gave Shawn Nick's room number, because that's not considered good hotel practice.)

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to what Shawn thought he would accomplish with that. Was Nick supposed to go "oh, you're right, I'm totally here for the wrong reasons, let me go quit..." 

 

Bottom line is, he would be gone if Kaitlyn didn't continue to keep him around so clearly she wants him there. Making yourself look more and more pathetic and clingy isn't going to get rid of Nick any faster, quite the opposite actually. 

 

 

When Kaitlyn gave the last rose to Nick, poor Jared looked like a puppy that had been kicked. I still don't find him attractive, but I wanted to give him a big-sisterly hug when he stood there looking so sad.

Poor Jared. Unlike Joe, he had a reason to expect a rose after all of the one on ones he got picked for (and incidentally, he got the best dates this season had to offer BY FAR. Anything that involved a suit and a fancy setting always seemed to be a Jared date.) 

 

But on the other hand, I always found it weird when they kissed because they really did seem to have a friend or brother/sister vibe. Very comfortable and fun, but not really romantic. And ultimately, if she's intending to use the FS dates to do a full "test drive" (as her conversation with Ben and disappointment in his interest in "talking all night" indicates), I can see why she cut Jared loose at this stage.

 

I did love him offering her his coat even after she cut him loose, he seems like a genuine guy and (along with maybe Ben H) seemed to have the best attitude throughout the season. He never stepped into the drama and just kinda did his thing. 

 

 

I can't believe they showed Britt and Brady at the end.  Clearly they are not together.  This is obvious in the way they talk to each other.  And he seems weirder and weirder each time we see him.  I know Kaitlyn's season has been a bit of a mess, but every time they show Britt I am still relieved Kaitlyn got the gig.

I laughed out loud when they randomly shoved that clip in at the end. Whatever plan they had for this Britt/Brady rider to the season clearly didn't pan out but somebody (perhaps whoever's idea it was) just can't let it go even though it doesn't make any sense. These random little 2 minute clips are like a trailing sentence of a story no one is listening to.

 

Just let it go, show. It's ok, we'll survive without Britt on our tvs. 

[Dirtybubble]

 

ABC is trying to so hard to make Britt and whatshisface a thing.  I wish they would go back to showing outtakes and funny bloopers from the show.  It showed a lighter, funnier side of they guys.  And it gives us a chance to see what they look like without their heads shoved up the bachelorette's ass.

[JenE4]

OMG, you guys, ABC/my cable provider does NOT make it easy to watch this show online outside of home network. Just a tip as we enter vacation season and the final few episodes: download the ABC app.

If Shawn thinks so highly of Kaitlyn, then why would he think it's impossible that Nick actually has feelings for her? I get that Shawn thought that Nick was There for the Wrong Reasons from the start, but shouldn't he think that Kaitlyn is so fantastic that of course Nick and these other guys (as opposed to "The Other Guy") are falling in love with her, too? It's insulting to her to say oh, Nick doesn't really care about you.

Even though I've never been a Nick fan, the heat between him and Kaitlyn is palpable. They seem to genuinely have a good time together, too. I wish we HAD seen some of the alone time with Shawn and Kaitlyn because they just seem so miserable in every scene these last few weeks that I don't see the "relationship" they have that's so special. I believe him that it's there because Kaitlyn, too, is obviously ALL about telling Shawn and not hurting Shawn since the morning after. She apparently doesn't care about ANYONE else's feelings but Shawn's--and her own mostly--maybe Nick's too. But the other guys (again, not to be confused with "The Other Guy) don't even register as a blip of concern to her.

Ben was giving the standard respectful response that, yes, I would like the opportunity to talk without cameras. This is what everyone always says, and yet Kaitlyn is so hot to trot she assumes he must be a virgin? Settle down, wild mustang! Ben is just too adorable. Even though I wish he could escape Kaitlyn's clutches unsullied, I'm glad that he's in the likely position of F3 so that he's in prime standing to be The Bachelor.

But I was actually very surprised that Jared wasn't F3. All along it's been Nick, Shawn, and Jared as a somewhat distant yet still obvious third. To me it came out of nowhere that he wasn't even on the group date(!) and wasn't chosen. They even had alone time after the drive to Kilarney, so AGAIN something must have happened off camera to make his standings slip. I mean, yes, she had a great date with Ben, and Ben would be my personal first choice, so I can see how he jumped up in the rankings late in the game, but to have NO date with Jared and to send him home--what the heck?! What happened?! I feel like rather than letting her have MORE off camera time with these guys, they should have her on 24-hour lockdown surveillance.

[leighdear]

I think the producers asked Kaitlyn "Who are your final 3", and she told them Shawn, Nick and Ben.  At this point, they take over the exits and decide who goes during which activity.  It doesn't really matter to Kaitlyn the how or when, that's for production to work out.  She's not a heartless monster, so she knows it's not going to be a happy event for any of these guys to be booted on national TV.  But I don't think the details are her concern, nor should they be.

[kira28]

 I was someone who originally thought the lesser of the two evils for Bachelorette was Kaitlyn because Britt was so damn fake all the time. But now I'm actually wishing we were watching guys fight over Britt. Kaitlyn isn't much of a catch. She's not that pretty, she doesn't have a hot body, she's not funny (as someone upthread said, whoever told her she has a great sense of humor lied to her)  she's not charming, she's not interesting. As much as I couldn't stand Andi , I could at least understand why the guys saw her as a prize! Kaitlyn... um.. not so much.  She seems better suited to some type of spring break hook up show or even BIP.  I'm not here to slut shame her but damn girl at least have some dignity. I mean Nick???   This show is horrible! Kaitlyn is so whiny and depressing and there is so much tension all the time. The guys always look miserable. She is very self centered and does not seem to care about anyone but herself at all!!!  At least Brit would have been gracious and held conversations (even if she was being fake) and I think the guys would have been climbing over themselves to talk to her just based on her looks alone. Kaitlyn doesn't seem to make these guys feel happy or laugh or anything positive. Everything seems so dark and depressing. Brit was more Disney princess and at the very least the guys could have enjoyed their free vacation.

 

I don't understand why Kaitlyn thought it was kind to let Joe go before the rose ceremony and then to cut Jared at the rose ceremony. Let's take the guy you basically spent the most time with and went on all the good dates with and make him endure a rose ceremony at which he is the only cut. Kind of mean spirited. And yet Jared was so classy about it. A true gentleman. Way too good for Kaitlyn. Hell even Nick is too good for her.

[Mu Shu]

Physically, I think Kaitlyn is very attractive. Britt isn't really that pretty, but is very photogenic. I've noticed she (Kaitlyn) has to be fully lit, otherwise the shadows on her face make her look haggard. That and the frosted green eyeshadow.

If she weren't so dour and negative, she could pull this off. It's her personality that doesn't work, and not photographing well doesn't help. Just miscast all around. Too bad both Ashley's didn't work out, because they're mad photogenic.

[Padma]

I agree Jared and Nick are too good for her. (Shawn imo is a jerk and boring and would be perfect for her in that respect. Except they're the kind of people who won't ever speak to each other after the breakup, none of this "We're still good friends" thing, so I hope it lasts until ATFR. Otherwise...awkward!)

 

I don't understand why she let sullen, disinterested (most of the time) Joe go early "to be kind to him" and made sincere, kind, fun and hopeful Jared get dumped at an RC. (Oh, and Joe said Kaitlyn always thought he was lying to her--which we never saw--but I thought the same thing, acting all the time and so over it all from the beginning.)

 

I don't commend Kaitlyn for how she explained it all to Shawn. Yes, the words were very good, very well chosen and clear. However, she basically had told him he was her bf, the only "one" she really wanted and they slept together, consummating that relationship and understanding.

 

Then, knowing her boyfriend has major trust issues, she does something to really hurt him just days after declaring their feelings--she sleeps with another guy who's just arrived on the scene. Now, in her confessional, she says, "You have to trust me" and instead of saying the obvious, "Why would I?" or "I don't" he says, "Okay."  And even when he asks a good question, "Do you regret it?" (in other words, was it a weird momentary thing but she basically would be faithful to him under normal circumstances) she basically answers, "No". 

 

"No" I don't regret cheating on you, and I'd do it again. (I -do- regret committing to you before I'd fully checked out/test driven any other prospects). That's not "free expression of sexuality" imo. That's just a garden variety opportunist. If Chris Soules or Juan Pablo had acted like that, everyone would say he was an egotist and a cad.

 

What's to admire about a woman like that?

[Former Nun]

I was someone who originally thought the lesser of the two evils for Bachelorette was Kaitlyn because Britt was so damn fake all the time.

 

 

I'm wasting your time here, but I can't read this phrase without thinking, "The lesser of two weevils."   Sorry.

[Zung Li]

I think telling Shawn was kind of a shitty thing to do to Nick. She admonished him to keep quiet to the other guys but then she tells Shawn herself. Nick doesn't know that she told Shawn and if he found out he would know that Shawn is her pick because she values that relationship more. Nick will be kept in the dark because they want him to propose at the FRC.

Edited July 8, 2015 by mingming

[Andromeda]

Kaitlyn most definitely snuck out to visit the guys’ room and I love that about her. The most interesting part is that their off-camera time was clearly so developmental that production had no choice but to flesh it out. The real question is, how do you punish Kaitlyn for her disobedience? It’s not like they can fire her mid-season. There’s a lot of grey area as to what is “right” and “wrong,” but there is no doubt Kaitlyn knew what she was doing was (in production’s eyes) “wrong”—just as there is no doubt they were pissed about it. Her entire conversation with Chris Harrison and the change of Hometown plans felt like a giant wrist slap. It’s clear to all that it’s the Shawn-vs-Nick show now, so why waste an episode where we know, without suspense, who’s going home? Why not cut half the guys now and get down to it?

The more I think about this, the more it's clear why this season is so confusing. Kaitlyn had this momentous time with Shawn, telling him he's the one, then this other off-camera time with him while Ben was in the bathroom, and because of her sneaking around, none of it was caught on camera. Not even her going in a hotel room door. So the plotline this season is really choppy, because production has no footage to show us of any of this. That would annoy me, too, if I was on the production side. What can they do, other than what they have done, show people talking about the moments after the fact? Or show a black screen with a voice-over explaining "Here's where Kaitlyn snuck off to Shawn's room without letting us know...We gather she said certain things to him to make him think he was her final pick." Which would be awful.

 

I think part of the problem is that she uses "I can't imagine saying goodbye to you" as code for "I am actually saying goodbye to you right this second." I've noticed her doing this with a couple guys this season; they've all seemed (understandably) pretty confused as it's happening.

 

But I did think it was hilarious when Joe was like, "I don't know what to do now ... what do I do?" And Kaitlyn kept responding like, "You have to do whatever you need to do, we both just have to try to put these emotions that we've shared behind us, you have to do whatever you can to recover from this heartbreak and move on." And you could tell that Joe was like, "No I mean WHERE IS MY SUITCASE. DO I NEED TO FIND MY OWN RIDE TO THE AIRPORT. I assume the producers don't intend for me to just live on this bench now so WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO INSTEAD."

I know!! It was hysterical in hindsight. He really doesn't know exactly what he's supposed to be doing at that moment in production -- go back to the hotel, talk to a producer, stay on the bench, walk over to the left or right -- and she's thinking he's talking about his love life moving on without Kaitlyn! Classic.

[backformore]

Ben was giving the standard respectful response that, yes, I would like the opportunity to talk without cameras. This is what everyone always says, and yet Kaitlyn is so hot to trot she assumes he must be a virgin? Settle down, wild mustang! Ben is just too adorable. Even though I wish he could escape Kaitlyn's clutches unsullied, I'm glad that he's in the likely position of F3 so that he's in prime standing to be The Bachelor.

 

Yes, I think Ben wanted the FS time to find out her true feelings.   "talking without cameras"  means - finding out if she cares for him, if he's going to be chosen, before he puts it on the line and actually PROPOSES to a woman who isn't in love with him.  He was being a gentleman, respecting the process, knowing that she can't commit on camera, can't say if she's "in love" . He wants the chance to have an honest conversation about their relationship.

 

Kaitlyn on the other hand, views the FS as a time to "test drive"  three guys - either before or after she decides which one will  get the final rose.   I wonder if she's ever had a boyfriend who treated her with that kind of respect before, because she seemed puzzled by it. She's like a girl who, on a first date, is puzzled by a guy asking for a kiss, when she assumed that every date ends up in bed. 

[Stella MD]

 

For a clue at how phony Nick is, see the scene where Kaitlyn tries to prank him about the prison cell room.  He is like "This is great".  That was not a real reaction at all, but a reaction of someone very conscious of everything.  His game plan is no matter what it is, be into it, and win.

In fairness, though, 99% of Bachelor/ette contestants would have responded exactly the same way. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who responded "What the eff is this nonsense? No thanks!" to any date suggestion on the show, other than the ones who were freaked out due to a specific phobia (and even then, they invariably still carried it out, after much dramatic coaxing). And a lot of them had far worse than a bed in a damp prison to contend with - like poor Carly and the icky sex coach last season.

 

ETA: Forgot about Tony and the wrestling refusal. But that turned out to be more of a referendum on the whole show rather than refusing one specific date but still wanting to be there.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Stella MD

[JenE4]

One observation that I almost forgot: Nick said to Kaitlyn a few times that it was his fault that he wasn't there at the start of the show. To me it sounded like he was in negotiations with the producers from the start, possibly even Kaitlyn told them to try to cast Nick. He probably didn't want to be there from night 1 because he didn't "need to" go through the get to know you phase and/or maybe he could reasonably use his vacation time for 3 weeks but not take a 6-week leave of absence from work. (We make fun of the somers fake job titles but how DO people with successful careers go on this show?!)

[backformore]

The other thing about Ben wanting to "talk all night"  is that he didn't want to be the guy who she bangs in the fantasy suite and then rejects.  He wanted some honesty from her first.  It's not about not wanting to have sex.  It's about the fact that having sex, proposing, thinking you are "the one" , shopping for a fucking engagement ring, and then seeing the girl accept someone else's proposal, is not only heart-breaking, it's humiliating.  He didn't want to be a loser on a TV show.  

[Mu Shu]

I forgot to mention that Britt/Brady looked like they just crawled out of the depression.    Grubby, tired,  and unemployed.     Whatever was the use of that clip?    Do they think BN is invested in their journey through hispterism, poor hygiene, and unemployment?     

 

The only consolation I have of this seemingly year long, shockingly boring show is that TMTA may be good, and that Britt wasn't the Bachelorette.    As awful a lead Kaitlyn is, I believe Britt would be totally inept.   Woman can't even get her shiftless "boyfriend" to wash his dirty face, how would she handle 25  men with booze in hand every day?    She'd run to the curb and cry like a little baby. 

[chocolatine]

Woman can't even get her shiftless "boyfriend" to wash his dirty face

 

Woman can't even wash her own face. Her makeup looked particularly slept-in this week.

[Rhondinella]

I forgot to mention that Britt/Brady looked like they just crawled out of the depression.    Grubby, tired,  and unemployed.

 

 

I love you so much right now Mu Shu!

[Kimmature]

Well from the little of social media I've observed, there is a lot criticism against her and a lot of name-calling. That said, the truly disturbing part for me, is that a lot of the anger isn't so much that she slept with someone pre-FS, but that it was Nick and doing that was very disrespectful to Shawn. Yes, from what I've observed on social media, Shawn is just a very sensitive and emotional guy who clearly just loves Kaitlyn so much that it's overwhelming him and she, being the "slut" that she is (their words, not mine - just making that clear) slept with and basically "cheated" on him with Nick that jerk. Oh and Nick by the way is a "sociopath, creepy, evil, predator (my favorite - apparently he seduced a very unwilling Kaitlyn), etc." To be fair, he does have his defenders and supporters but again if "Bachelor Nation" on social media is anything to go by, Nick will not be the next Bachelor. Could I be wrong - sure anything's possible but I seriously, seriously doubt it. 

 

Huh- my experience with social media has been different.  i don't follow a lot of previous contestants/'stars' of the franchise, but the ones that I do follow mostly seem to be fans of Kaitlyn.  Of course there's slut-shaming, because middle America wants to pretend that the Bachelor/ette is about finding 'true love', and not a weird form of polygamy/polyandry where the 'lead' is expected to form 'real and lasting connections' with multiple people in the course of a few weeks, when they're sleep-deprived and given a lot of access to alcohol.  The producers aren't hoping for 'true love' any more (if they ever were)...the ratings for Bachelor in Paradise last year were higher than they've been for a long time, so they're after controversy and titillation, not 'love'. 

 

Producer manipulation has been more obvious this season than in past seasons.  Weird edits where people change (Clint's all of a sudden gay, Ian flips his lid, Cupcake gives a real try at crying onscreen, J.J. goes from 'villain' to meh, Joe goes from great to asshole in 2 minutes), and it's pretty obvious that Nick wouldn't have been introduced when he was unless the producers meant him to be.  It's not like they didn't know that he and Kaitlyn had been interacting online, or that they had an interest in each other.  He didn't beg his way into the show- he wouldn't be there unless the producers wanted him to be. 

 

Everything about the format of the show has always screamed Stockholm Syndrome. Put a bunch of people in a small space, give them a lot of alcohol, convince them that they're going for a 'prize'.  Given the 'success rate' of Bachelor/ette couples long-term, you'd probably be as likely to find your true love in a one night stand. 

[nutty1]

What I still cannot figure out is why Kaitlyn confessed to Shawn, then turned around and had another round of sex with Nick!!?

 

Also, I feel like Kaitlyn may have been told by the producers to keep Ben in the final 3....to me, he seems like their dream Bachelor for next season.

[Padma]

What I still cannot figure out is why Kaitlyn confessed to Shawn, then turned around and had another round of sex with Nick!!?

 

Well, what some will see as refreshing honesty (and I see as something else), Kaitlyn never actually said she regretted having sex with Nick. She just thought Shawn should know about it before -they- had sex again. Clearly, she wasn't planning to stop having sex with Nick, just making it all "clear".

 

Apparently she also thought she might be having sex with Ben. Her expression when he said "talk" was first a knowing smirk and then incredulity when she realized he actually meant talking! Of course, in KaitlynLand that could only mean one thing: he's a virgin! Too funny.

 

And, yes, Ben seems like he is very well positioned for the next bachelor--adorable, articulate and apparently capable of spending a night -talking- to a woman. (Maybe even turned off by the idea that Nick and Shawn, two men he knows, are both "doing it" with her already). And he's a little shy and insecure, which many women would find attractive.  However, that said, I think The Bachelor wants men with more swag and will probably try to get Ben to commit to the next BiP. 

[truthaboutluv]

Huh- my experience with social media has been different.  i don't follow a lot of previous contestants/'stars' of the franchise, but the ones that I do follow mostly seem to be fans of Kaitlyn.

 

 

I wasn't referring to the former contestants/leads but the average viewer/fan. Just follow the Bachelorette hashtag during the show airing to see what I'm talking about. I do agree that former contestants/leads are being fairly supportive of her. 

 

Well, what some will see as refreshing honesty (and I see as something else), Kaitlyn never actually said she regretted having sex with Nick. She just thought Shawn should know about it before -they- had sex again. Clearly, she wasn't planning to stop having sex with Nick, just making it all "clear".

 

 

Well and didn't she pretty much say "no" when Shawn flat out asked her if she regretted sleeping with Nick? So yeah, no confusion there and she did in so many ways let him know she felt it was necessary for her to "explore" the guys some more before she committed forever. So yeah that should have told him she'd be sleeping with Nick again.