S06.E12: Katoby

[CrystalBlue]

47 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

You forgot to mention that she was [never] willing to do anything to help save the marriage.  It was always about Toby making compromises,  but never Kate.

I subscribe to the theory that Kate decided on The Hill that that was the end of the road for her.  Everything after was just going through the motions until her big announcement.  I said it before and I'll say it again that with her, Toby couldn't win for losing.

[bros402]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:19 PM, peeayebee said:

Can someone here please make a timeline?  I admit to having memory issues, so I'm glad to see I'm not the only one confused by what happened when. I'm sure I have more problems remembering, though. I would love to see a timeline with years from the beginning (or just when Jack and Rebecca get together) to the end (presumably Rebecca's death bed). 

When was Hope mentioned? I wish I could remember things better.

 

I know economics on TV shows is a joke, but I don't know how Toby could afford such a cute house in LA while helping (a lot) pay for the first house.

I believe Jack performing in this episode is ~2042-2045 - his daughter Hope was born some time after that. Rebecca deathbed scene is 2032. So Jack is around 10 at that point, he's probably 25 in the adult Jack timeline, so more like 2047? So that is the furthest ahead we have scene. Hope was first (and only) seen in Season 4, I think?

How did Toby afford the house? Obviously the housing market crashed and he bought it for rock bottom prices :P

Or maybe he got a new job working from home that paid well.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, bros402 said:

Or maybe he got a new job working from home that paid well.

Maybe the salary for the LA job wasn't as much of a "joke" as he claimed...

[chocolatine]

15 minutes ago, bros402 said:

How did Toby afford the house? Obviously the housing market crashed and he bought it for rock bottom prices :P

Or maybe he got a new job working from home that paid well.

I really hope that he didn't have to keep paying the mortgage on the house he'd shared with Kate after the divorce was finalized, and he was able to save up for a down payment after a few years of living in that depressing apartment. It's bad enough that he had to walk away from all the equity he had built in the first house and hand it over to Kate, who had contributed almost nothing to it financially.

I also hope that he eventually found a better job in LA and didn't have to stay in the one he hated. While LA doesn't have nearly as big of a tech scene as SF/Silicon Valley, many of the large tech companies have offices there, and there are also some local startups.

[bybrandy]

8 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

Believe it or not there are still a fair amount of young millennial women with more traditional values,  at least in my world.  Most of the ones I know took their husband's last name and some are even stay at home moms!  Not my cup of tea,  but to each their own. 

Yep, I'd say even ones who don't have terribly traditional values.  I was surprised that my nephew's wife took his name.  But I'd say more people I know than not who have gotten married in the last year have changed their names   

But it isn't unusual either for people I know to not change their names, or to do some kind of hybrid, to hyphenate or to take a whole new name all together.  It also is more uncommon but not terribly unheard of in my circle for men to change their name to a new family name. 

 

[Tabbygirl521]

8 hours ago, PRgal said:

Nothing wrong with being a stay-at-home mom or taking one's husband's last name.  At least half the moms in my son's class have.  Which is why it's not abnormal for Kate to do so.  I wonder if she reverted back to Pearson, post divorce, or if she kept Damon until she married Phil the  Brit.

I wasn’t questioning her taking Toby’s name but wondering if, in the professional world today, “Mrs” is used rather than “ms”. I’m retired but when I was still working, “Ms” was the default in professional correspondence etc regardless of whether the woman was married. So I wondered if that had changed. 

[Tabbygirl521]

14 hours ago, deaja said:

I thought it was obnoxious that Phillip had the kids make signs for the proposal. When dealing with young kids, maybe don't involve them just in case she says no? 

I also feel like the whole Phillip storyline is jammed in there for the shock value of the end of last season. So this whole season has been written to make the ending a thing instead of a well-thought out storyline.

The kids were certainly more welcoming to Philip than The Big 3 (barf) were to Miguel. 

[nilyank]

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I subscribe to the theory that Kate decided on The Hill that that was the end of the road for her.  Everything after was just going through the motions until her big announcement.  I said it before and I'll say it again that with her, Toby couldn't win for losing.

Going through the motions for more than 16 months after Toby gave up his dream job for one that he could barely stand and being more present at home and with the kids. I think Kate knew it was over but rather than sparing Toby and herself, she just kept it going. Not because she wanted to save her marriage or to have their kids grow up with both parents together. Kate has shown all throughout her life that she is stubbornly resistant in making any changes even when it is a change that she wants in her life.

As for the big fancy engagement party and big wedding, I found that completely strange as she and Philip were too old to have someone else paying for those two events. From Philip's background story of his dead, blind barren wife, they were going broke trying to conceive, so he wasn't fabulously wealthy. He is a teacher and Kate was a "supervisor" (whatever that is) at a private school so a good chunk of their earnings would be earmarked to paying the mortgage on Toby's and Kate's house especially after whatever alimony Toby was paying would have ended.

Who are all these people that invited to the wedding? Sure a bunch of Pearsons will fill their seats. Philip's family. Their shared co-workers from the school. And Philip's friends. And Kate's friends, Madison and Sophie whom she barely had scenes with to show their supposedly close friendships. 

[Violetgoblin6]

17 hours ago, Shermie said:

Me too. Some prop maker had to create that very specific item for 2 seconds of airtime that half the viewers didn’t notice.

I'm a special education teacher and before my current position, I taught for 10 years in a large residential facility in Philadelphia. All the name plates were in braille. Everything from the pool to the principals office to name plates. It's amazing what's out there for people woth special needs. 

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I wasn’t questioning her taking Toby’s name but wondering if, in the professional world today, “Mrs” is used rather than “ms”. I’m retired but when I was still working, “Ms” was the default in professional correspondence etc regardless of whether the woman was married. So I wondered if that had changed. 

That’s the case in the corporate world, but some teachers and even admin staff at schools use Mrs.

[debraran]

2 hours ago, nilyank said:

Who are all these people that invited to the wedding? Sure a bunch of Pearsons will fill their seats. Philip's family. Their shared co-workers from the school. And Philip's friends. And Kate's friends, Madison and Sophie whom she barely had scenes with to show their supposedly close friendships. 

I was surprised Sophie wasn't part of the wedding party since of the time of the text etc to then BUT then I realized, duh, how could that be, then they'd have to show her in the room with Madison and Beth etc and then she'd be in his life before we saw how. All this for mystery, never thought this is us was about that until the wedding scenes a while back.

Friends are not plentiful but Cassidy is part of the building company Kevin had on his speech paper, so she would be there for sure. I'm sure Philip had his share, just Kate seemed to only have Madison after Sophie.

[watcher1006]

18 hours ago, BTBAM310 said:

Agreed. Zero flashbacks is what made this episode for me. All of the Kate/Toby stuff the last few episodes has been great.

This is one thing that has made my enthusiasm for this show fade over the last few seasons. I have grown weary of the constant time jumping, not just the flashbacks but also the flash-forwards. It can get so confusing that one doesn't know when some character is being shown at what point in time.

[BC4ME]

1 minute ago, watcher1006 said:

This is one thing that has made my enthusiasm for this show fade over the last few seasons. I have grown weary of the constant time jumping, not just the flashbacks but also the flash-forwards. It can get so confusing that one doesn't know when some character is being shown at what point in time.

For me, all the flashbacks and flash-forwards have made it difficult to tell what's going on unless I'm completely sober. Yet my growing frustration with the show has made me not want to watch while completely sober. 

[Boo Boo]

15 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

Wow, that's really sad for both Kate and Toby.  I can't imagine getting married knowing either 1.) You know your husband will never measure up to your dad or 2.)  Your wife will always consider you less of a husband and father than her dad was.  Ouch.

And this is exactly what's wrong with this show: the weird canonization of Jack Pearson to the point it ruins marriages, relationships.

It's not unusual for daughters to look for a mate that has the traits of their father. But to have this your dead father be a third party in your marriage?  Odd.

 

 

[Aloeonatable]

5 hours ago, nilyank said:

Going through the motions for more than 16 months after Toby gave up his dream job for one that he could barely stand and being more present at home and with the kids. I think Kate knew it was over but rather than sparing Toby and herself, she just kept it going. Not because she wanted to save her marriage or to have their kids grow up with both parents together. Kate has shown all throughout her life that she is stubbornly resistant in making any changes even when it is a change that she wants in her life.

As for the big fancy engagement party and big wedding, I found that completely strange as she and Philip were too old to have someone else paying for those two events. From Philip's background story of his dead, blind barren wife, they were going broke trying to conceive, so he wasn't fabulously wealthy. He is a teacher and Kate was a "supervisor" (whatever that is) at a private school so a good chunk of their earnings would be earmarked to paying the mortgage on Toby's and Kate's house especially after whatever alimony Toby was paying would have ended.

Who are all these people that invited to the wedding? Sure a bunch of Pearsons will fill their seats. Philip's family. Their shared co-workers from the school. And Philip's friends. And Kate's friends, Madison and Sophie whom she barely had scenes with to show their supposedly close friendships. 

This bold paragraph was definitely what Kate was going through at the time. 

 

 

[AriAu]

A few random thoughts:

1. I didn't need a whole back story on Philate (too funny....but makes sense...oh AriAu don't go there), but it would have been nice to see something that shows how or why she makes him happy. Something, anything since Kate has not exactly been portrayed as someone who makes those around her happy, other than St. Jack Pearson and the music students. She is almost always a downer and, as has been pointed out again and again, has no friends. I'm not even going into the physical attraction/that she is morbidly obese, just personality wise, we never saw what made him happy.

2. Of course Philip had an incredibly painful and miserable backstory....what else would you expect from This Is Us.

3. Does Philip have lots money since they seem to be spending a lot on the wedding (winery in San Ynez etc....) and the engagement party? Family coin or settlement of the wrongful death suit?

4. Rebecca and Miguel were not at the New Big Three's 6th birthday party. Just saying.

5. Has any character in recent memory had a better retcon than Madison. She really, really shook her insecurities and over sharing and intrusions into the lives of others that we saw at the beginning, seemingly out of nowhere. 

6. Thrilled that after how bad they made Toby look (or tried to make him look) that this episode showed him to really care about kate/the kids/making it work and it was great that it appears he found happiness. "Appears", because in the flash forward, he is alone in bed in what looks like a pretty depressed sounding state.

Speaking of the flash forward, something has always bothered me-how is Toby so close to the Pearson cabin that evening when he lives in California?

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by AriAu

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, AriAu said:

A few random thoughts:

1. I didn't need a whole back story on Philate (too funny....but makes sense...oh AriAu don't go there), but it would have been nice to see something that shows how or why she makes him happy. Something, anything since Kate has not exactly been portrayed as someone who makes those around her happy, other than St. Jack Pearson and the music students. She is almost always a downer and, as has been pointed out again and again, has no friends. I'm not even going into the physical attraction/that she is morbidly obese, just personality wise, we never saw what made him happy.

2. Of course Philip had an incredibly painful and miserable backstory....what else would you expect from This Is Us.

3. Rebecca and Miguel were not at the New Big Three's 6th birthday party. Just saying.

4. Has any character in recent memory had a better retcon than Madison. She really, really shook her insecurities and over sharing and intrusions into the lives of others that we saw at the beginning, seemingly out of nowhere. 

5. Thrilled that after how bad they made Toby look (or tried to make him look) that this episode showed him to really care about kate/the kids/making it work and it was great that it appears he found happiness. "Appears", because in the flash forward, he is alone in bed in what looks like a pretty depressed sounding state.

Speaking of the flash forward, something has always bothered me-how is Toby so close to the Pearson cabin that evening when he lives in California?

 

Right?  Madison became a whole 'nother person.  

[smartymarty]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I really hope that he didn't have to keep paying the mortgage on the house he'd shared with Kate after the divorce was finalized, and he was able to save up for a down payment after a few years of living in that depressing apartment. It's bad enough that he had to walk away from all the equity he had built in the first house and hand it over to Kate, who had contributed almost nothing to it financially.

He wouldn't hand over all the equity -- he'd hand over half the equity. And yeah, if an ex remarries, alimony (but not child support) ends. Maybe once Kate remarried, Toby had the additional income to save for a nice house (unless I have my timeline wrong).

7 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Yep, I'd say even ones who don't have terribly traditional values.  I was surprised that my nephew's wife took his name.  But I'd say more people I know than not who have gotten married in the last year have changed their names   

But it isn't unusual either for people I know to not change their names, or to do some kind of hybrid, to hyphenate or to take a whole new name all together.  It also is more uncommon but not terribly unheard of in my circle for men to change their name to a new family name. 

In general, I believe the number of American women keeping their names after marriage has declined. I'm cheered to read that someone does not see that happening. This changing the name thing is not universal, and is quite strange to me.

Also, "Mrs." connotes married, "Miss" is unmarried, while "Mr." is used regardless of marital state. That's why Gloria Steinem promoted "Ms." to replace Mrs. and Miss. I use it for all women.

5 hours ago, nilyank said:

He is a teacher and Kate was a "supervisor" (whatever that is) at a private school so a good chunk of their earnings would be earmarked to paying the mortgage on Toby's and Kate's house especially after whatever alimony Toby was paying would have ended.

In some parts of the country, private schools pay better than public. But I also was confused about her "supervisor" title when the retiring person showed Kate what looked like a classroom with electric pianos in it and gave her a nameplate, as though Kate instead would be teaching keyboarding.

[izabella]

25 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

He wouldn't hand over all the equity -- he'd hand over half the equity. And yeah, if an ex remarries, alimony (but not child support) ends. Maybe once Kate remarried, Toby had the additional income to save for a nice house (unless I have my timeline wrong).

He has no way of handing over half the equity and keeping half.  Kate would have to buy out his half, or the house would need to be sold and the equity split.  I can't imagine with what money Kate would be able to buy out his half.  Kevin's money, I guess.  Or maybe Toby just gave up his half and let her have the house, because she's a Pearson.

Edited April 15, 2022 by izabella

[AriAu]

Quote

He has no way of handing over half the equity and keeping half.  Kate would have to buy out his half, or the house would need to be sold and the equity split.  I can't imagine with what money Kate would be able to buy out his half.  Kevin's money, I guess. 

Actually, he could hand over half the equity by taking more of something else, like his 401K or an investment account etc.... Divorce is not my area of law, but i have had clients get divorced and the even up often happens this way, especially when one spouse owns a business. However, he knew it was best to keep Jack in the house where he was comfortable so he may have agreed to let them stay and then get half the equity on the eventual sale.

Quote

Or maybe Toby just gave up his half and let her have the house, because she's a Pearson

Ha.

[smartymarty]

4 minutes ago, izabella said:

He has no way of handing over half the equity and keeping half.  Kate would have to buy out his half, or the house would need to be sold and the equity split.  I can't imagine with what money Kate would be able to buy out his half.  Kevin's money, I guess.  Or maybe Toby just gave up his half and let her have the house, because she's a Pearson.

When divorcing, couples add up all the marital assets and divide in half. So say the equity totalled $200,000. Kate could keep the house while Toby keeps the $100,000 in other assets. Yes, if the equity is the largest asset, it may be more difficult to do an even split. But then the couple can agree to other arrangements, such as Kate keeps all equity but Toby pays less in alimony, or Kate keeps all equity but also keeps a larger share of their debts. (Or Kevin buys out Toby's share -- we all think that, right?)

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Boo Boo said:

It's not unusual for daughters to look for a mate that has the traits of their father. But to have this your dead father be a third party in your marriage?  Odd.

I wonder if having a third person,, whether a parent, former partner or an abuser is more common than we know. But it certainly is unhealthy.

6 hours ago, nilyank said:

Going through the motions for more than 16 months after Toby gave up his dream job for one that he could barely stand and being more present at home and with the kids. I think Kate knew it was over but rather than sparing Toby and herself, she just kept it going. Not because she wanted to save her marriage or to have their kids grow up with both parents together. Kate has shown all throughout her life that she is stubbornly resistant in making any changes even when it is a change that she wants in her life.

That feels like what happened.

Between that and her father a third partner in her marriage, Kate mus have done a lot of work on herself to get to the state where she could have a successful marriage to Philip.

Or else it was magically fixed by the writer's pen.

I could see Toby giving Kate the house in the divorce because she has custody of the kids and it's better for them.

 

[peeayebee]

7 hours ago, nilyank said:

As for the big fancy engagement party and big wedding, I found that completely strange as she and Philip were too old to have someone else paying for those two events. From Philip's background story of his dead, blind barren wife, they were going broke trying to conceive, so he wasn't fabulously wealthy.

Don't forget the crooked nose!

But yeah, about the fancy engagement party... I too wondered who paid for it. Like you said, Kate and Philip are old enuf that they should have to pay for it themselves, but neither seem to have a lot of money. Of course Kevin could easily have paid for it, but man, I don't think Philip would like that. And then there's Rebecca and Miguel. Actually, I have no idea what their financial situation is. 

 

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

3. Does Philip have lots money since they seem to be spending a lot on the wedding (winery in San Ynez etc....) and the engagement party? Family coin or settlement of the wrongful death suit?

I guess it's possible that there was a financial settlement after his wife was killed. Also, I have a vague memory of him having money when he first started appearing on the show. Maybe I just assumed that because of the English accent. 

[AriAu]

Quote

Also, I have a vague memory of him having money when he first started appearing on the show. Maybe I just assumed that because of the English accent. 

Or because he had lots of money when he was Arvin in Modern Family!

[chocolatine]

49 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

When divorcing, couples add up all the marital assets and divide in half. So say the equity totalled $200,000. Kate could keep the house while Toby keeps the $100,000 in other assets. Yes, if the equity is the largest asset, it may be more difficult to do an even split. But then the couple can agree to other arrangements, such as Kate keeps all equity but Toby pays less in alimony, or Kate keeps all equity but also keeps a larger share of their debts. (Or Kevin buys out Toby's share -- we all think that, right?)

I wish we had gotten those details in the episode. The only thing the mediator said was that Kate would stay in the house, so it sounded like Toby was giving it to her. I do hope the separation of assets was at least somewhat fair to Toby and that he didn't martyr himself by giving Kate more because she's so special. If he did give her more than he had to, I hope he emphasized that he was doing it for the children and not for her.

[cameron]

55 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I wonder if having a third person,, whether a parent, former partner or an abuser is more common than we know. But it certainly is unhealthy.

That feels like what happened.

Between that and her father a third partner in her marriage, Kate mus have done a lot of work on herself to get to the state where she could have a successful marriage to Philip.

Or else it was magically fixed by the writer's pen.

I could see Toby giving Kate the house in the divorce because she has custody of the kids and it's better for them.

 

No way did I want my husband to have the traits of my father.

[madmax]

If I was supposed to like Kate better after this episode, it was a big ol' fail.  I wasn't fond of her before, but after this one, she can go pound salt.  She was horrid.

We saw not one instance of Phillip being anything but an ass until he texted her after the divorce was signed.  Serious retconning going on, which is probably due to COVID, but still, not cool.

I'm going to miss little Jack.

On 4/12/2022 at 10:25 PM, debraran said:

I felt having Kevin playing the field like an 18-year-old seemed a little unseemly but they have a reason for doing it I suppose.

It makes  little sense.  He started to mature and now he's falling back on the womanizing ways?  Great writing...

On 4/13/2022 at 7:07 AM, Jeddah said:

Now that we know they’re both alive when their kids are grown, why didn’t we see Kate and Toby when Hope is born?

Because Jack's wife (sorry,  can't remember her name) showed common sense and didn't want them there?  Truly, I didn't want anyone but my husband there when I had my children.  I had to kick my mom out of the room for the first one and we really didn't tell anyone for the second.

On 4/13/2022 at 9:47 AM, Haleth said:

It said Mrs Pearson-Damon.

Shouldn't it have been Ms. Pearson-Damon?  Everyone I know who hyphenates uses Ms.  But the braille was a nice touch.

On 4/13/2022 at 8:53 PM, ams1001 said:

Sophie Larson. Elijah doesn't seem to even be listed on the wiki list of characters.

I laughed when I got to the bottom of the list of main characters.

Quick!  Somebody edit it to  MeanJerk!

On 4/14/2022 at 10:44 AM, ams1001 said:

They seem to be wanting to be consistent in casting blind actors at every age, which is cool, but I imagine that limits their options in finding a good likeness. I'll just go with "chubby kids sometimes turn into thin adults after hormones and growth spurts kick in" and ignore that his face is a completely different shape.

I admire their consistency in casting blind actors.  And yes, chubby kids do sometimes turn into thin adults.  Happened with my youngest, between hormones, growth spurts, and him deciding on his own to eat healthier.

5 hours ago, debraran said:

Friends are not plentiful but Cassidy is part of the building company Kevin had on his speech paper, so she would be there for sure. I'm sure Philip had his share, just Kate seemed to only have Madison after Sophie.

The only way I see Cassidy there is if she was invited by Kevin.  Kate and Cassidy have had no interactions, to the best of my knowledge.  

52 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Or else it was magically fixed by the writer's pen.

You nailed  it.

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, AriAu said:

6. Thrilled that after how bad they made Toby look (or tried to make him look) that this episode showed him to really care about kate/the kids/making it work and it was great that it appears he found happiness. "Appears", because in the flash forward, he is alone in bed in what looks like a pretty depressed sounding state.

But there were two flash forwards; one to the time of Rebecca's (presumed) death, where he looks sad and/or depressed. He could just be sad because of the circumstances of why he's there. Then they flash to further in the future where he's with his new wife at the bar for Jack's performance, where he looks happy. I'm guessing he either hadn't met her yet or she was unable/they weren't serious enough for her to travel with him to see his ex-MIL.

2 hours ago, AriAu said:

Speaking of the flash forward, something has always bothered me-how is Toby so close to the Pearson cabin that evening when he lives in California?

He seems to be in a hotel; all we see is a bed with some artwork above it and two side tables but it doesn't look like a bedroom that someone actually lives in. I'm guessing he flew out to see her but maybe was second-guessing whether he really should be there given that he and Kate had split years before.

31 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Or because he had lots of money when he was Arvin in Modern Family!

That's the other thing I know him from! I forgot about that!

11 minutes ago, madmax said:

Quick!  Somebody edit it to  MeanJerk!

🤣

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

He wouldn't hand over all the equity -- he'd hand over half the equity. And yeah, if an ex remarries, alimony (but not child support) ends. Maybe once Kate remarried, Toby had the additional income to save for a nice house (unless I have my timeline wrong).

In general, I believe the number of American women keeping their names after marriage has declined. I'm cheered to read that someone does not see that happening. This changing the name thing is not universal, and is quite strange to me.

Also, "Mrs." connotes married, "Miss" is unmarried, while "Mr." is used regardless of marital state. That's why Gloria Steinem promoted "Ms." to replace Mrs. and Miss. I use it for all women.

In some parts of the country, private schools pay better than public. But I also was confused about her "supervisor" title when the retiring person showed Kate what looked like a classroom with electric pianos in it and gave her a nameplate, as though Kate instead would be teaching keyboarding.

The show has been vague on Kate's actual degree,  so j can see them using something like supervisor for her new role to keep it vague.  Or it's that kind of private school that uses its own nomenclature.   I've personally never heard of an institution of learning using supervisor over teacher, but it could happen.   I can see a school calling their educators supervisors because they supervise their students learning but do not teach a rigid curriculum.  

[Boo Boo]

35 minutes ago, madmax said:

If I was supposed to like Kate better after this episode, it was a big ol' fail.  I wasn't fond of her before, but after this one, she can go pound salt.  She was horrid.

We saw not one instance of Phillip being anything but an ass until he texted her after the divorce was signed.  Serious retconning going on, which is probably due to COVID, but still, not cool.

I'm going to miss little Jack.

It makes  little sense.  He started to mature and now he's falling back on the womanizing ways?  Great writing...

Because Jack's wife (sorry,  can't remember her name) showed common sense and didn't want them there?  Truly, I didn't want anyone but my husband there when I had my children.  I had to kick my mom out of the room for the first one and we really didn't tell anyone for the second.

Shouldn't it have been Ms. Pearson-Damon?  Everyone I know who hyphenates uses Ms.  But the braille was a nice touch.

Quick!  Somebody edit it to  MeanJerk!

I admire their consistency in casting blind actors.  And yes, chubby kids do sometimes turn into thin adults.  Happened with my youngest, between hormones, growth spurts, and him deciding on his own to eat healthier.

The only way I see Cassidy there is if she was invited by Kevin.  Kate and Cassidy have had no interactions, to the best of my knowledge.  

You nailed  it.

No question.  I assumed it was a kid dealing with divorce trauma.  Not to mention, his mom is morbidly obese.  But yeah, I've known adults who were chunky when young and now aren't.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Boo Boo

[Violetgoblin6]

On 4/12/2022 at 9:52 PM, Armchair Critic said:

I don't think Kate will actually be happy with this new husband either, she is a downer.

Complete and utter downer. Even as a kid. When Toby brought up Kate's obsession with Jack I laughed out loud. Remember the holding Jack's head in her hands? Or young Kate saying, "I want to marry you."  Teen Kate is so negative and grumpy and was this way even when Jack was alive. 

On 4/12/2022 at 10:00 PM, LexieLily said:

Kate is alive in the future-flashes, that's the most important thing we learned tonight.

I do wonder how much of the Kate/Toby/Phillip storyline was planned out this way and how much of it was dictated by the circumstances of the episodes we lost during Covid. We're missing so, so much in the narrative here.

Yeah. I mean, I figured Kate was alive in the Rebecca deathbed timeline, but I didn't expect it in 2043 or whenever, nor Toby. I didn't notice their aged looks either until both were sitting down with Lucy. I did notice Parfait's shorter hair though. Wonder if Parfait is the "they're" in 2032. Like Jack, Hayley and Parfait.

People have mentioned that Toby looks depressed in the scene when Randall calls him "to come down". I wonder if Toby is working temporarily in the Philadelphia area and his wife and children are in Los Angelas. I chatted with one of the writers on Twitter years ago (when we found out that Randall heads to the cabin to see "her") and asked if Randall moves near the cabin. They said that yes, at that point in time Randall and his family live near enough to the cabin to "drop by" whenever. Looks like Toby got there pretty fast if you see when he arrived compared to Randall and Tess. Huh, maybe Toby is big time in IT at that point and travels all over the place for work. Maybe he is just stressed?

 

On 4/13/2022 at 7:47 AM, Blackie said:

 

That is the most depressing thing about this show: the future , 2043, looks totally boring. Unless future Little Jack is singing in some equivalent of a "period  theme" pub that are around now.  Its the future!! And Toby is there wearing an old man's cap, they haven't figured out how to grow hair 😞.

And I appreciate that they want to cast blind actors but unfortunately that had broken their usual pretty spot on casting of the kids at different ages. Chubby 6 year old Jack totally fit as Katobi's kid, but we had already seen grown up Jack who is a totally different body type.

I think the whole premise of trying to take the story into 2043 was a big fail.

 

ETA:  the worst marriage therapist ever is only after 16 months of therapy  suggesting they have a dinner alone together

Yep. I always look for hints in the deeper future scenes to see if anything has changed, and nope. Nothing new here. I remember in Six Feet Under they at least tried. Somewhat. This episode actually reminded me of SFU when they showed the new Big 3's 6th birthday party and then jumped to 2040s. If anyone has watched the SFU finale surely you must remember the Claire driving scene and how they flashed forward to the near future with Willow's birthday party and then kept jumping, later and later...(that montage destroys me btw, I know the finale of this show will too), believe me, they tore a page from Alan Ball's book.

On 4/13/2022 at 10:01 AM, absnow54 said:

I think the "woman he sleeps with at Kate's wedding" is supposed to be significant. They've established that Sophie was married at Kate's engagement party, but we don't know her status at the wedding. Madison was pregnant at the engagement party, and not pregnant at the wedding, so some amount of time has passed between the engagement party and the wedding. I think Sophie is still very likely to be the wife at this point. 

Someone needs to try to put the scenes into chronological order. We see Toby bond and attend birthday parties before the wedding, so it's possible he saw that things would get better before he met Parfait Woman. 

Oh yeah, the Kevin romance at the wedding is most definitely significant and I just know, lol, that the writers are trying to throw us off by showing Kevin gazing longingly at Sophie while sitting with Cassidy. Honestly, at this point I am expecting Sloane to pop up at the winery in Spain, on vacation or something. 

On 4/13/2022 at 12:24 PM, CountryGirl said:

I guess I am a sap deep down because I liked seeing everyone happy in the 2043 flash forward. Toby with Laura, Kate with Philip (and so much for them not lasting), and Jack and Lucy. 

Me too. I was relieved to see them alive in the future and getting along. I've known couples who have actually become very close with their respective spouses years down the road. At first I thought that was the case, but then Jack was like, "You're both here", like it was kind of rare. 

On 4/13/2022 at 1:17 PM, Tango64 said:

The writers suddenly realized they had written no personality for Phillip or any reason for us or Kate to like him. So they went into overdrive and instantly turned him into a happy, smiling, charming Hugh Grant lite.

Then they had to give him a sympathetic back story, again in an instant. Quick! Get all this down on paper!

Here's me watching that scene:

Phillip: I was married. She had a crooked nose. She was blind.

Me: Okay, the blind bit is a little much, but okay.

Phillip:  We went through three rounds of IVF. She didn't want to quit trying. It was brutal. It ruined our relationship.

Me: Okay, I went through exactly the same thing, rings true... Gives your character some depth.

Phillip: So we broke up. She got in a cab and left without saying goodbye.

Me: Aww, that's sad. Well, not a bad effort at giving you a sympathetic backst...

Phillip: And then a drunk driver hit her and she died instantly.

Me: And now you went too far and fucked it up.

 

Yes! Exactly! My thoughts too. I was like, of course. Of course they haven't done much with Phillip so they throw a classic "sob story" at him. 

 

I am already becoming tense at the end of this 6 year journey. I have a lot of criticism of the show, but overall I enjoyed it. I'm not a big tv person, but I was grabbed by TIU's trailer during the end of the 2016 Olympics...to the point where I reran the trailer 5 times. I had remembered in May of 2016 seeing a bit piece about the show, but then it was called 36. I then popped over to IMDB and found out the "twist". I love shows that jump back and forth in time and life (and books!) Plus the show introduced me to Justin Hartley who is a treasure. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Violetgoblin6

[Violetgoblin6]

2 hours ago, AriAu said:

Does Philip have lots money since they seem to be spending a lot on the wedding (winery in San Ynez etc....) and the engagement party? Family coin or settlement of the wrongful death suit?

San Ynez? See, at first I thought it was Spain and then Napa and then I went to TIU Reddit and they're saying it was filmed at a specific Spanish Winery. 

[kili]

Quote

 But after that, I thought that he really did try harder than Kate did to make the marriage work, giving up his job to move back to L.A. and doing an honest job of trying to be a good parent. With Kate's mindset I can't see what more he could have done that would have satisfied her.

I think the marriage was over when she got to the top of the hill. That was her real turning point. Toby was no longer the Toby she fell in love with and she was no longer the woman that Toby fell in love with. They were both married broken people who grew during the marriage.

Kate didn't work as hard at the marriage because, for her, it was already over. She may not have realized it, but it's obvious she was. I almost suspect that Toby was over it too. He just didn't want to start over again. He was in love with being married and not with Kate.

Toby was so happy at his job and his fit life-style. He loves his kids. Where does he say he still loves Kate? Everything he says about her is negative (except when faking it for the therapist). Maybe he's right, but if he has nothing positive to say about her, why stay married?

If Kate had quit her job and left behind her family/friends to move to SF, it's entirely possible that she would have been just as bitter as Toby was about having to leave SF. Would she snipe rude things about his job at the kid's birthday party when he glowed as he said how happy he was with his job like he did in this episode? Probably. Would he end up having to self-edit himself to a "fine" when asked about his day at work at their "parent date night" like Kate did at their actual one because she knew if she said "it was wonderful, we did blah-blah-blah" she knew he'd get bitter? Probably. Would he have been late to the sessions because he had to take another work call? If work calls interrupted picking up Kate, having sex with Kate and trying to convince Kate to move to SF...Yes. So, either way they were doomed. They didn't love each other anymore because the broken person they married was dead.

Toby even mentioned it was the last time he would kiss "his wife". Not Kate. "his wife". Toby was working to save his marriage, not his relationship with Kate. 

Quote

If Kate still believes that no man will ever live up to Jack Pearson as a husband and father, then logically, her second marriage wouldn't fare any better than her first.

Kate now has a healthier relationship with her dead Dad. When Toby met Kate, she was still watching football with her dead Dad. She couldn't get a dog because her dog was the reason her Dad was dead. Their entire wedding was about her dad (it was at his cabin, the urn was meant to be beside the guest book, she was going to sew his old shirt to her dress and freaked out that it wasn't there, she tried to serve his favourite ice cream at the wedding, she freaked out when all her Jack plans were falling apart and ran off, and she hallucinated him. Her entire pregnancy was about her Dad because she needed a baby to carry a piece of him on (her dad, not her husband).

Then she had baby Jack and he had a disability and that was FINALLY the kick in the butt she needed to move on from dad Jack. She couldn't be the little girl he held in the pool and protected her from all. She needed to be the adult and do the protecting and nurturing.

Toby was lost. He couldn't deal with baby Jack's disability and felt like he was left out in the cold because Kate was changing as she was just dealing with it. That was the kick in the butt he needed to stop being a man-child and start to grow up. He started taking care of his health and when he got fired, he got a new, better job he loved.  He wasn't the class clown anymore and started dressing better.

They both grew. They were no longer the people they married.

Kate's second marriage will work because Phillip is marrying a fully grown Kate who still loves her father, but whose life does not revolve around him. Phillip has known Kate for at least two or three years before the bar scene with Toby and has no clue how important football is to Kate because it isn't important to Kate anymore. Kate has found her own things to be important in her life.  

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Yes, if the equity is the largest asset, it may be more difficult to do an even split. But then the couple can agree to other arrangements, such as Kate keeps all equity but Toby pays less in alimony,

When I was divorced ( in Cali in the 80s) I got child support but gave up alimony to be able to continue raising our children in our home.  The agreement was that I would pay him. half the value of the house **at the time of our divorce** either when I remarried, sold the house, or our youngest child turned 18.  When I finally sold the house, it was worth several times what it had been worth when we divorced, but he got the lesser amount agreed on.

[MBayGal]

52 minutes ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

I did notice Parfait's shorter hair though. Wonder if Parfait is the "they're" in 2032. Like Jack, Hayley and Parfait.

Parfait??? Who is that?

[MBayGal]

50 minutes ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

San Ynez? See, at first I thought it was Spain and then Napa and then I went to TIU Reddit and they're saying it was filmed at a specific Spanish Winery. 

I thought they said Santa Ynez, which is a town north of Santa Barbara, Calif., with several wineries.  But the cast was seen filming at a winery in the Paso Robles area, which is a good hundred miles north of Santa Ynez.  Maybe they are pretending it's in Spain?  

[CountryGirl]

24 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Parfait??? Who is that?

Toby's new wife, Laura.

They met cute over grabbing for the last parfait in a coffee shop.

This scene shows the tail end of their meeting (we don't see Laura) but here's a future scene of them together.

I loved the embraces between Jack and Kate and Jack and Toby, showing the love between them. And the shared look between proud parents Toby and Kate. They did such a wonderful job raising this amazing young man.

 

[Crashcourse]

When Kate asked Phillip what he saw in her, what I got from him was "well, since I had a blind, barren wife with a crooked nose, a morbidly obese woman is no big deal."  Not exactly romantic.

[Pattycake2]

I just watched the latest episode after reading everything here. In the scene in the psychiatrist office, Toby said they had been in therapy for six months. I have to agree about the lack of chemistry between Philip and Kate. Phyllis seemed happy, but he could’ve been speaking to anyone. There was no real explanation about why he was attracted to Kate  And Kate didn’t seem head over heels in love with Philip. There was more chemistry between Toby and Kate in one scene than in all the flash forwards and flashbacks between Kate and Philip.

[Mrs Shibbles]

So, Kate is the one who filed for divorce.  She had already checked out of the marriage long before she filed, and even though Toby begged her to not go through with it, she still went through with it.  Yet, she said the paperwork signing was "brutal" so she needed cheering up afterward by Phillip?    She looked like she was happily signing the paperwork. 

Then, Phillip cheers her up by requesting Tubthumping at Karaoke, which is a silly song, but the lyrics talk about about getting knocked down, but getting back up again, and not being kept down?    Life didn't just "happen" to Kate.  She wanted it this way.   Ugh.     Them singing it at the engagement party was extra obnoxious.  Yuck.

[Eureka]

16 hours ago, bros402 said:

I believe Jack performing in this episode is ~2042-2045 - his daughter Hope was born some time after that. Rebecca deathbed scene is 2032. So Jack is around 10 at that point, he's probably 25 in the adult Jack timeline, so more like 2047? So that is the furthest ahead we have scene. Hope was first (and only) seen in Season 4, I think?

How did Toby afford the house? Obviously the housing market crashed and he bought it for rock bottom prices :P

Or maybe he got a new job working from home that paid well.

I imagine Hope was born after the 2043? Scene when Jack was performing because that would make him early to mid 20s and kids these days for the most part don’t get married and have kids that early. Maybe that changes in the next two decades in This Is Us land? 

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

When Kate asked Phillip what he saw in her, what I got from him was "well, since I had a blind, barren wife with a crooked nose, a morbidly obese woman is no big deal."  Not exactly romantic.

But that fun-loving Kate makes him so happy!

My theory is that Kate makes Philip feel superior in that she has a major flaw in her weight problem.  Philip didn't want her teaching at the school at first because she wasn't qualified.  Then the higher ups hired her and he became pleasantly surprised with how well she taught the blind students.  Those 20-minute chat ups must have really drawn Philip in as to how she'd be a great wife for him.  Remember how Philip and Kate bonded over his complaining about his first wife, which he would regale his students of that morning's encounter before class?  No wonder the blind, crooked-nosed IVF-trying woman left him!

Edited April 15, 2022 by CrystalBlue

[mansonlamps]

8 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Don't forget the crooked nose!

But yeah, about the fancy engagement party... I too wondered who paid for it. Like you said, Kate and Philip are old enuf that they should have to pay for it themselves, but neither seem to have a lot of money. Of course Kevin could easily have paid for it, but man, I don't think Philip would like that. And then there's Rebecca and Miguel. Actually, I have no idea what their financial situation is. 

 

I guess it's possible that there was a financial settlement after his wife was killed. Also, I have a vague memory of him having money when he first started appearing on the show. Maybe I just assumed that because of the English accent. 

Maybe he has been knighted and Kate, like Megan Markle is a duchess!

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, Eureka said:

I imagine Hope was born after the 2043? Scene when Jack was performing because that would make him early to mid 20s and kids these days for the most part don’t get married and have kids that early. Maybe that changes in the next two decades in This Is Us land? 

I seem to remember that the flash-forward to when Hope was born took place in 2050, so quite a bit later. We also saw Jack perform in a stadium (or some other kind of large venue) in that same episode. I imagine it took him several years to go from playing in bars to that kind of fame. (It seems that, unlike Rebecca and Kate, Jack didn't give up after his first try to break into the music industry.)

[maggiemae]

Thing is little Jack and grown up little Jack had light brown hair...chubby little Jack had quite dark brown if not black hair like Hailey, iirc.

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I thought they said Santa Ynez, which is a town north of Santa Barbara, Calif., with several wineries.  But the cast was seen filming at a winery in the Paso Robles area, which is a good hundred miles north of Santa Ynez.

Maybe they should have had a cameo of Thomas Haden Church and Paul Giamatti over in the corner of the party, tasting wine.

[ams1001]

Saw an article that said they went through 36 costume changes filming this one, plus the different makeup for each timeline. 

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

10 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I thought they said Santa Ynez, which is a town north of Santa Barbara, Calif., with several wineries.  But the cast was seen filming at a winery in the Paso Robles area, which is a good hundred miles north of Santa Ynez.

Maybe they should have had a cameo of Thomas Haden Church and Paul Giamatti over in the corner of the party, tasting wine.

But no Merlot!!!

(referring to movie Sideways, for those who are confused)

[gameshowjunkie]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:50 AM, bybrandy said:

Yep, I'd say even ones who don't have terribly traditional values.  I was surprised that my nephew's wife took his name.  But I'd say more people I know than not who have gotten married in the last year have changed their names   

But it isn't unusual either for people I know to not change their names, or to do some kind of hybrid, to hyphenate or to take a whole new name all together.  It also is more uncommon but not terribly unheard of in my circle for men to change their name to a new family name. 

 

Some of my doctor friends legally changed their names but seem to use their maiden names professionally. Not sure if they changed them when they got married or once they had kids..some parents don't seem to want to have a different last name from their kids. I got married 25 years ago and never changed mine, and I've been surprised when my husband and I have been questioned by some people when it came to identity- how can we be married when we don't even have the same name? Idiots.

I only know of one couple who combined their names, and I don't know any men who took their wife's name. I've read enough advice columns to see that it's still a big deal to some people. If my husband had tried to insist on my changing my name that would have been a big red flag...

3 hours ago, MBayGal said:

But no Merlot!!!

(referring to movie Sideways, for those who are confused)

No effing merlot to be more precise!

[Eureka]

5 hours ago, gameshowjunkie said:

Some of my doctor friends legally changed their names but seem to use their maiden names professionally. Not sure if they changed them when they got married or once they had kids..some parents don't seem to want to have a different last name from their kids. I got married 25 years ago and never changed mine, and I've been surprised when my husband and I have been questioned by some people when it came to identity- how can we be married when we don't even have the same name? Idiots.

I only know of one couple who combined their names, and I don't know any men who took their wife's name. I've read enough advice columns to see that it's still a big deal to some people. If my husband had tried to insist on my changing my name that would have been a big red flag...

No effing merlot to be more precise!

Yup, this year will be our 25th anniversary and I didn’t change my name either. When we moved from the Boston area soon after we got married (where many of my friends also kept their names) down to south of the Mason Dixon line, I confused people when I tried to set up phone service and wanted two phone book listings for us, one under each name. (Talking about dating myself with that reference!) Our kids have my husband’s last name, which is fine by me. One my kids has my last name as his middle name.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Eureka