S26.E10: Week 9

[dizzyd]

24 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

I seem to remember a bachelor named Clayton who sent someone named Cassidy home because she had slept with someone shortly before leaving for taping.  Does anyone remember which season that was???

But see the difference is he just realized or maybe a producer informed him he was too vanilla and falling into the background while the season has been so far about the inter women’s dynamics, that we needed some drama involving him to spice it up and Cassidy was just 1/30 and easily disposable but he is the bachelor and he needed to bring out his narcissism and show Bachelor nation that being the lead means that he’s the center of attention and the season needs to be all about him, to hell with the opinions or feelings of the 30 women, so surely that must mean he’s totally justified in his actions, double standard and gaslighting be damned. All of this for the show and ratings and to rile us up and give us something to talk about. After all, bad publicity is better than no publicity right. One more week and we’ll be done with him, although I thought today was finale night and I was getting ready for Survivor mode. 

[nickp1991]

Wow Iceland is so beautiful

[Andyourlittledog2]

I can't believe how much this pissy creep was gaslighting Susie and she kept apologizing and trying to explain but it just empowered him to rev up the anger and blame game. He is such an abusive jerk. In the limo Susie said she thought he'd be more compassionate about her point of view and talk to her about how she felt but he just turned on her.  The final scenes he is angry and feeling oh so sorry for himself.  Invalidating!

He wanted her to fight for their relationship after all they've been through. What relationship? What exactly is all they've been through?  They barely know each other. They've barely spent any real time together. 

I don't remember much about Jake and Juan Pablo was a class A man ho but Clayton wins the cad and abuser card so he's at the top of worst Bachelor ever for me.

[chocolatine]

It's frightening how quickly Clayton went from "I love you the most" to "this is all your fault." If he let himself act like that in front of cameras, can you imagine what it's like to be alone with him behind closed doors? Shudder. I wish Susie hadn't tried to apologize and just silently walked out while he was ranting.

I hope he's shunned from the Bachelor Family after this - no BIP, reunion parties, or Stagecoach hookups for him. "Don't let the stalactites hit your ass on your way out," indeed.

[EllenB]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

It's frightening how quickly Clayton went from "I love you the most" to "this is all your fault." If he let himself act like that in front of cameras, can you imagine what it's like to be alone with him behind closed doors? Shudder. I wish Susie hadn't tried to apologize and just silently walked out while he was ranting.

I hope he's shunned from the Bachelor Family after this - no BIP, reunion parties, or Stagecoach hookups for him. "Don't let the stalactites hit your ass on your way out," indeed.

And I hope Gabby and Rachel boil him in oil next week.

[Andromeda]

What a mixed episode. Glorious scenery of a place I plan to visit. Spoiled by the creepiest bachelor ever. I don't have a lot to add.  I agree with the general sentiment that Clay'un is a Grade-A Asshole and was gaslighting Susie. He was so furious, terrifyingly so, not upset that she was leaving. And that weird hypocrisy of saying his faith leads him...to be a man-ho? Obviously. Most women wouldn't be keen for their possible fiance to test all the waters available first!  I sure wouldn't. Nothing says true love like a comparison test.

Seems to me like he is extremely spoiled and immature, but that's no excuse for treating a woman you professed to love 10 minutes earlier like crap. He has no idea what love is. I still can't believe he said he couldn't stand to look at her anymore.  Geez! What a tantrum. Embarrassing. I knew this season would be a train wreck from early promos,  but this has exceeded my expectations. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Andromeda

[phlebas]

Ok, my several-hours-later thoughts:

The sex part is one thing -- not everyone feels the same way about the importance of sex. That can get ironed out.

But telling multiple people you're in love with them right BEFORE all the sex? Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but i think that's ethically problematic.

Clayton's reaction when she came back to talk was 100% deflecting blame. She made him feel bad for screwing the other two so he turned it around on her. It was a little reminiscent of Greg going at Katie on her season.

I feel bad for Rachel and Gabby. And for Susie. She didn't handle that well but it's not like she's super experienced in this. I get that Clayton felt ambushed, but you get through that by sharing perspectives. You do not respond with cruelty.

Until you figure that out, you shouldn't be engaged to anyone.

All IMHO. I get there's lots of ways to look at this.

Survivor tonight is going to be a welcome palate cleanser.

ETA: I've thought all season that Susie was being groomed to be the next Bachelorette. And she still might be, but this makes her as a lead a bit more complicated. Maybe that will be more interesting, but I think I'd still prefer Gabby.

Edited March 9, 2022 by phlebas

[DEL901]

5 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

I can't believe how much this pissy creep was gaslighting Susie and she kept apologizing and trying to explain but it just empowered him to rev up the anger and blame game. He is such an abusive jerk. In the limo Susie said she thought he'd be more compassionate about her point of view and talk to her about how she felt but he just turned on her.  The final scenes he is angry and feeling oh so sorry for himself.  Invalidating!

He wanted her to fight for their relationship after all they've been through. What relationship? What exactly is all they've been through?  They barely know each other. They've barely spent any real time together. 

I don't remember much about Jake and Juan Pablo was a class A man ho but Clayton wins the cad and abuser card so he's at the top of worst Bachelor ever for me.

That sentence….he wanted her to fight for their relationship…what relationship?   He said he loved her best, but he loved the others too, so he had sex with them to be able to assess their relationships.   What did he expect her to do at that point?  Perform acrobatics in bed to keep her lead position?    Would their entire relationship be like that?   He does whatever he wants and expects her to just accept it and show him why he should stay with her?   Would he feel the same if she had feelings for another man and decided to sleep with the guy to check the depth of her feelings.  

When it came to Hannah B and Luke P, she was clear that she hadn’t made a commitment to anybody and was a free agent.   She even had enough clarity not to spend the night with Tyler since their relationship was primarily physical.   Clayton loves everyone and feels entitled to sex   

Next week will be explosive.  I wondered why he told the f2 that he’d had sex with both, but clearly it was because he knew they’d watch the season and find out and he was trying to do damage control in advance.  But how do you come back from saying you love all 3 and had sex with 2…would have been 3 but Susie, his favourite, bailed on him.  

And what if he picks one of the other 2.  What will happen when they find out they were picked only because #1 walked away.   

Turns out nice guy Clayton is really a “nice guy”, one of those fakes who is only nice when they get their own way.   I can’t imagine how much damage control he is going to have to do in real life.  He is in sales….female clients aren’t going to respect him.  

And now we know why each step of the way, Clayton took responsibility for everything, apologized and said he was learning and growing….he was trying to strike pre-emptively before this episode aired.  

ETA.  I said this previously…Clayton clearly thinks he is on the Bachelor: Sister Wives Edition.  No other explanation why he thought the woman he “loved the most” would be okay with him both loving the other two and having sex with them.

Edited March 9, 2022 by DEL901

[seacliffsal]

I was so angry at Clayton during the last 20 minutes of this episode.  The way he totally turned on Susie and blamed her for his actions and decisions was scary.  I am so glad there were other people there (producers, camera people, etc.) otherwise I believe he would have started acting out his anger.  Oh, and then to play the 'faith' card.  I was just reading Matthew 18 this morning about one of Jesus' lessons on forgiveness and I don't know of any passage in the Bible that encourages/entitles one to unlimited sexual encounters (now, many people in the Bible did but it was their decision not due to direction from God).  So, he blames Susie for the break-up and then God for his lack of compassion towards Susie.  It seems that Clayton doesn't take responsibility for his actions and will find someone else to blame.  It warms my heart that it looked like from the previews that his dad has his number.

Well, congrats to Juan Pablo whose reputation just improved as well as to all of the women who were previously eliminated during this season.

[DEL901]

Something I forgot to mention…”nice guy” Clayton originally tried to lie to Susie and imply he’d only had sex and declared love for one other woman…but he kept tripping up and finally admitted he’d slept with both.   He couldn’t be honest in the moment to try to make himself not look so bad.  

As discussed before, he is a people pleaser and when people aren’t happy with him, first he resorted to lies (it was only one woman) and then anger. (How dare you not accept what I did?  If you really loved me, you would accept my decisions without question and fight for me to pick you).  Dude needs therapy more than he needs a relationship.  

[JenE4]

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

That sentence….he wanted her to fight for their relationship…what relationship?   He said he loved her best, but he loved the others too, so he had sex with them to be able to assess their relationships.   What did he expect her to do at that point?  Perform acrobatics in bed to keep her lead position?    Would their entire relationship be like that?   He does whatever he wants and expects her to just accept it and show him why he should stay with her?   Would he feel the same if she had feelings for another man and decided to sleep with the guy to check the depth of her feelings.  

When it came to Hannah B and Luke P, she was clear that she hadn’t made a commitment to anybody and was a free agent.   She even had enough clarity not to spend the night with Tyler since their relationship was primarily physical.   Clayton loves everyone and feels entitled to sex   

Next week will be explosive.  I wondered why he told the f2 that he’d had sex with both, but clearly it was because he knew they’d watch the season and find out and he was trying to do damage control in advance.  But how do you come back from saying you love all 3 and had sex with 2…would have been 3 but Susie, his favourite, bailed on him.  

And what if he picks one of the other 2.  What will happen when they find out they were picked only because #1 walked away.   

Turns out nice guy Clayton is really a “nice guy”, one of those fakes who is only nice when they get their own way.   I can’t imagine how much damage control he is going to have to do in real life.  He is in sales….female clients aren’t going to respect him.  

And now we know why each step of the way, Clayton took responsibility for everything, apologized and said he was learning and growing….he was trying to strike pre-emptively before this episode aired.  

ETA.  I said this previously…Clayton clearly thinks he is on the Bachelor: Sister Wives Edition.  No other explanation why he thought the woman he “loved the most” would be okay with him both loving the other two and having sex with them.

You bring up a good point of why he HAD to tell Rachel and Gabby about the 3 ILYs and 2 fuckings. It’s not just that they’d see it on TV, but he had to explain why Susie wasn’t there. I have no doubt he still thinks he did nothing wrong and hence, nothing to “admit to,” but he had to explain why one of his finalists didn’t show up for the rose ceremony.

The vitriol of the contestants toward him at TWTA suddenly makes a bit more sense, too. I think some of them were completely out of the loop and to them it was just about him believing Shanae, but others—like as Teddi expressed—know what he said/did to the final 3. It wasn’t just “expressing his love physically and emotionally” across the board—that’s been done and may even be expected. Rather, they know how he treated Susie…and we don’t know yet how he reacts to the others also actually having emotions about his actions and daring to express them. Someone send the memo to Katie that this is what gaslighting is. He totally turned around Susie’s feelings toward HIS actions as HER ruining everything and he doesn’t even know who SHE is so HE is rejecting HER and making her beg for forgiveness?!? Fuck you, Clayton.

Clayton will forever be vilified by Bachelor Nation/Family—and not even like a fun stirring up drama way like give them a ticket to Paradise and let him do his thing. He will be forced to the shadows and shunned at the music festivals. Meanwhile, Susie will be America’s sweetheart and—I don’t have an iota of doubt—our next Bachelorette.

Edited March 9, 2022 by JenE4
ATFR and TWTA are 2 different shows…but now I REALLY can’t wait until they tear him apart on ATFR!!

[Lamb18]

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

It's frightening how quickly Clayton went from "I love you the most" to "this is all your fault." If he let himself act like that in front of cameras, can you imagine what it's like to be alone with him behind closed doors? Shudder. I wish Susie hadn't tried to apologize and just silently walked out while he was ranting.

I hope he's shunned from the Bachelor Family after this - no BIP, reunion parties, or Stagecoach hookups for him. "Don't let the stalactites hit your ass on your way out," indeed.

I was thinking that, too, that it's a good thing she started expressing her point of view while the cameras and other people were around, and not waited until the fantasy suite door was closed and they were alone.

[willgracefan]

10 hours ago, adhoc said:

First episode I've watched this season. Lordy lord, so many "likes" I wanted to gouge my eyes out. I might try to watch next week, but I don't know if I can sit through more of this:

C: "Like, I thought you would, like, understand but now I find out that, like, you're, like, not my person and I'm, like, I'm just done...."

S: "Well, I'm sorry, but like, I just thought you know, like, if you were, like, serious you would have, like, told me and, like I believe everything you are saying but, like I don't know, like, how could you, like, do that...."

*********

"Well, I am in love with the other women, Susie. But I love you the most!"  Just what every woman wants to hear.

It was Gabby that did my head in with the likes.  Then I couldn't stop noticing they all were saying like! 

[phlebas]

So... you think Kira still wants him?

[DEL901]

[alexa]

39 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

I was thinking that, too, that it's a good thing she started expressing her point of view while the cameras and other people were around, and not waited until the fantasy suite door was closed and they were alone.

This morning, I am still in disbelief at how he acted.  Noone can be that dumb to think it is okay to marvel at oneself for telling two people you are in love, and then go into Susie's date and actually question her for questioning him about how he is feeling about everyone.  Even he felt odd about what he had already done, and then to turn it on her is just beyond belief.  Any normal person would know that most people would have reservations about someone that so freely gave their love and body to two other people, so recently.  I really still have no words, and everyone's reactions to Clayton--the women, the franchise, etc.  It all makes sense now.

[DEL901]

I wonder how Rachel and Gabby feel knowing that Clayton had sex with them while planning on Susie as his final 1 (provided, I’m sure, she didn’t suck in bed)?

Being understanding of him exploring his options if he was truly uncertain and was using the info from the Fantasy Suite date to solidify his decision.  I think even Susie could have some empathy for that.   But he already knew who he wanted as f1 and was just looking for notches   

Also, I’m sure they took his declarations of love as alsolute without realizing they should also have asked for their ranking relative to the other two women.  

[nlkm9]

Ok…… why does gabby wear all her jackets off of her . Omg i just cant with her .

[TheFinalRose]

I'm really surprised that Clay-en has gone dark and didn't issue the standard Bachelor-speak apology for his actions last night.  I suspect that during filming, the producers egged him on to take his walls down and express his love and explore the relationships in their private time. Maybe he even said but won't it look bad to say ILY and then reject them? They then fed him the standard line that it's all part of the process and part of the journey and each finalist knows that they are risking heartbreak at the end. So go for it! And Clay-en stupidly believed them, because that anger he was directing at the producers last night was meant for them, and it had the feel of someone who did something stupid when he knew it might be stupid but he disregarded his gut feelings and took their advice, which was purposely meant to create drama and not help him or any of the finalists have a happy ending. What a mess.  Anyway, my point is, it doesn't look good to be hiding out from social media when the Bachelor nation is on fire and you set the fire. 

[Hpmec]

All through the episode, Susie was practically shouting from the rooftops that she didn't approve of his sleeping with other women if she was his choice. Yet, the producers gave her the last date after they gave Clayton his shot at going undercovers with Rachel and Gabby. This is The Bachelor after all and, after a multitude of seasons, the women all know what to expect in the "Fantasy Suite."  

The whole scenario seemed very scripted. Susie is unhappy. Susie confronts Clayton. Clayton behaves like an ass, gets mad, and sends Susie away. Plenty of drama. 

After seeing the reaction in the previews to the news that he slept with both of them, it doesn't look like Clayton will be proposing to either Rachel or Gabby anytime soon. Seems like all three ladies don't like sharing. 

Susie, however, is a beauty pageant queen. There's no way she was ever going to end up with a big doofus like Clayton. Either she was using the "sleeping with another woman is a deal breaker" excuse to get off the show all together or using it to get off and then enhance her chances to become the bachelorette - which, I suspect, was her motive all along. 

If production didn't keep recycling these people, it would be impossible for men and women to go on this show for a shot at the lead. Would be happy to see a complete unknown as the Bachelor or -ette. Might rejuvenite this tired franchise a bit. And cast a few women and men who might actually be interested in meeting someone. That would be a novelty. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Hpmec

[rlc]

Wow. That was awful. The gaslighting was next level. Girl- run. I have no issue with the sex. I usually assume that they screw everyone who makes it to the fantasy suites- they just don’t make it so freaking obvious and scream out multiple ‘I love yous’ to multiple contestants.

What the hell was Susie supposed to do at that point? If she had stayed with him (and spent the night with him) after that conversation, can you imagine how her family and friends would have treated him IRL? What a freaking mess. Dumbest, skeeviest bachelor ever.

Also- seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I like Gabby. She’s fun, goofy, and somewhat natural/normal.

[Rebky]

This is how that last conversation would have played out if it was me instead of Susie:

Clayun: If you felt so strongly, why didn't you say something??

Me: Because you gas-lighting sonofabitch, I thought you might have a little integrity. My mistake asshole!!!! 

[CrazyDog]

This was just too much Bachelor for the week. I think show has jumped it's sixth or seventh shark.

Before tonight, I found Clayton a harmless, horndog, immature dude, who was in over his head as the lead of the show. Watching him declare his version of lust-love to multiple women was cringeworthy, but still laughable. 

After tonight? Yikes.

Before the blowout, I think both Clayton and Susie had valid points. Clayton is hardly the first lead to hook up with multiple people and it's basically the premise of the show, especially these days. Jesse's icky speech at the beginning was basically reminding the women to go to the FS or ELSE.

And Susie still has every right to not want to be part of that, even if having that expectation is tricky, or maybe just naïve, on a show like this. She could have talked to him beforehand.

Yet I really don't think she was into him. He was just lusting all over the place, but I also don't think any of the F3 had feelings for him either, or the editors cut out all the "connections" so they could devote all their airtime to Shanae. This is the most emotionless season. I think Susie was looking for a graceful exit, and I'm not sure why it's so horrible to think she may have just reached a point where she didn't want to stick around anymore. Maybe she had feelings for him, and reached a breaking point because he slept with the others, or because she  just wasn't into him and wanted out, or didn't want to "win" and be stuck with him for 6 months, or because she wanted to be the next Bachelorette, who cares. They're all valid reasons.

It does NOT excuse Clayton. He morphed into a hulking neon red flag in a zip up hoodie, and I truly hope he doesn't end the season with anyone. His rage, hypocritically bringing up his faith, making her feel like she needed to apologize to him? Hell no. If he truly has taken a social media break, that's cowardly. He needs to address his behavior, and I hope makes a truly sincere apology to all of the women, and does some serious work on himself.

But this show has been ugly for awhile now. Bland, recycled leads, poorly vetted psycho contestants, forcing the contestants into pure Stockholm Syndrome, making the F3 to cohabitate and share notes, and more. The producers set up the FS well, and got exactly what they wanted.

Why am I watching again? 

[TheMediumBopper]

Clayton really does have the emotional maturity of a fifteen-year-old boy. He needs at least another fifteen to twenty years before he can even start thinking about being a good husband to anyone. Congratulations, Susie, for indirectly helping to expose what a piece of shit he is. 

In a semi-unrelated note, I would pay fifty bucks to see Gabby's cool Grampa show up at the finale and kick Clayton's ass. 

[econ07]

If I recall back to an earlier season, Hannah Brown accused some guy named Luke of slut-shaming when she slept with one of the other contestants.  I remember coming on here and saying that Luke had every right not to want someone he might propose to, to be sleeping around with everybody, and many of you disagreed.

By that logic, how is Susie not slut-shaming Clayton.

For the record, I don't think she is.  I think Susie in Clayton's season and Luke in Hannah's season were asking very logical questions central to love and trust.

[DEL901]

17 minutes ago, econ07 said:

If I recall back to an earlier season, Hannah Brown accused some guy named Luke of slut-shaming when she slept with one of the other contestants.  I remember coming on here and saying that Luke had every right not to want someone he might propose to, to be sleeping around with everybody, and many of you disagreed.

By that logic, how is Susie not slut-shaming Clayton.

For the record, I don't think she is.  I think Susie in Clayton's season and Luke in Hannah's season were asking very logical questions central to love and trust.

I mentioned Hannah B and Luke upthread.   I think the situations are similar but not identical.  Luke questioned her morals and character.    Susie just said that if truly loved her why would he sleep with/say he loved the other 2.    Also, Hannah didn’t tell Luke she loved him., unlike Clayton and his entire F3. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by DEL901

[econ07]

20 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I mentioned Hannah B and Luke upthread.   I think the situations are similar but not identical.  Luke questioned her morals and character.    Susie just said that if truly loved her why would he sleep with/say he loved the other 2.    Also, Hannah didn’t tell Luke she loved him., unlike Clayton and his entire F3. 

I do appreciate the difference in saying you love someone.  However, I do think that Luke was essentially saying the same thing as Susie, whereas it was interpreted as him questioning Hannah's character.  And in Luke's case, he even said that they could get past it if they ended up together, which would make him appear as less of a slut-shamer than Susie if this prevents Susie from accepting a proposal or self-evicting.

[EllenB]

1 hour ago, TheMediumBopper said:

I would pay fifty bucks to see Gabby's cool Grampa show up at the finale and kick Clayton's ass. 

And bring the hulking bald guy - Tony? Was that Rachel's father?

[Rainsong]

Iceland is an appropriate location for a season that has left most of us cold.  It’s typically so bleak there that the buildings are painted in various bright colors to stave off the perpetual winter blahs. As the conventional wisdom states, there isn’t much actual ice there but there is incredible topography, active volcanoes & geysers and hot springs. We can only wonder what the Vikings who first saw the remote island must have thought of the alien landscape but at least one of them said to himself ‘This would be a good place to settle down.’ On the other hand, if you’d sailed a thousand miles from Norway in a primitive open longship across frigid seas you might not fancy the return voyage.

Clayton’s voyage begins at LAX – the staged footage is confirmed by the absence of masks and the absence of any other passengers in the terminal. But it was the only way to get the visuals. With only 300,000 inhabitants, can Iceland spare any of its population to work in the States? Or is the gate agent saying ‘It’s 75 degrees here every day. No way in helvíti I’m going back.’?

Clayton also appears to be only one on the flight which is a bit supernatural and spooky but a stop on the East Coast is standard before the hop to Iceland where more passengers may board. But again, there are no masks and there aren’t even any flight attendants so the boarding process is all for show. At least Clayton gets a first class seat…but they appear to be all first class. Contrast this with the grimy, cramped flying bus you’re forced to take to Atlanta or Phoenix with the spoiled ADD brat behind you screaming and kicking the seat while his mother ignores him. Maybe the travel budget was increased once they realized Clayton would be wearing the same clothes for 2 months and they’d save on wardrobe.

‘Continue on my journey to find love?’ Bit late in the game for that, Clayton. You sound like you’re hunting rare mushrooms in the woods. These are relationships, or should be. But that term doesn’t seem to be part of your lexicon, which overall is about as empty as that prop suitcase you’re carrying down the airplane gangway.

They have big GM SUVs in Iceland? Or was a promotional vehicle flown over in the belly of the plane like the presidential limousine? That must be one hell of ironclad contract with GM. Clayton is rolling his REAL bag into the hotel and the suitcase has disappeared. The continuity team on this production should fear their next employee reviews. Rachel gives us our first Balcony/Railing Shot™ as she steps away on cue. 

The remaining women are holed up in a single room. It’s a big week, they agree, displaying a staggering mastery of the obvious. Gabby doesn’t want anything to be off-limits. Oooh, saucy minx, her! Susie’s subconscious reaction is a frown, which probably indicates she DOES have some limits and is hopefully sticking to them.

Jesse arrives, puffy-faced and no doubt jet-lagged. He appears to have borrowed one of Clayton’s awful shawl-collar sweaters. His sales pitch for the fantasy suite (still a term that makes the skin crawl) is received in three rather different ways: Susie is nonplussed, Rachel is eager, Gabby looks a bit frantic. The continuity has gone from bad to hopeless since the three of them were staring at a date card in the first shot – the same date card that Jesse has brought to the room and is no longer visible in shots of the table.

Rachel gets the first date card. Susie not impressed and, in fact, her default expression is one of get-me-out-of-here skepticism as she casts a sidelong glance at nothing in particular. If Susie does happen to leave voluntarily or otherwise, it’s easy to imagine the producers will peg her as Bachelorette Candidate 1A.

Clayton is out standing in his field (*splash cymbal*) but then there are many such fields ie expanses of tundra on the island. Did they have to drive out to the hinterlands to board a helicopter when they could have done so on a helipad in town to see the same sights from the air? The pilot is compelled to point out nature’s wonders like a cone crater as the passengers are more concerned with canoodling. Our alleged flight instructor is strangely uninterested in rotary-based aviation or chatting with her pilot colleague.

Women who declare ‘It’s so cold in here’ on a regular basis and fight a never-ending guerilla battle to raise the thermostat setting are probably shuddering involuntarily under their blankets at the thought of standing on an arctic snowbed, even for a romantic tryst.

The helmets are mandatory equipment for spelunking and we should probably have some protection ourselves as they beat us over the head with the ‘going deeper’ metaphor. The subterranean cavern is impressive but the lovebirds barely glance at it. The producers must feel like parents who break the bank and move heaven and earth to take their young’uns to Disney World only to have the little darlings fall sound asleep in the stroller inside the front gates.

Gabby’s gameplan for her next Clayton encounter is simple: Any way you want it, that’s the way you need it, any way you want it. Hey, that’s a Journey lyric! A JOURNEY lyric! Eh, never mind. Susie now looks as if she might have a root canal without anesthesia tomorrow morning.

Clayton has worn his usual appalling collection of Mr Rogers sweaters so far but he’s also worn: a navy peacoat, a puffy parka and now a plaid topcoat – which prompts the idle question: how the hell did he fit all that into a smallish roller bag? For a city of a mere 130,000 souls, Reykjavik seems quite expansive and opulent especially compared to, say, Midland TX, also pop. 130,000. Tonight’s ‘date dome’ is impressive. Less impressive is Rachel’s sixth iteration of the hard-to-get speech. She’s beyond keen to hop in the Icelandic sack with Lantern Jaw.

Dialogue for the Clayton/Rachel dates is generated by a familiar six-sided die. Its faces read as follows:

‘We have such a deep connection’
‘It’s crazy’
‘We always have so much fun’
‘Today was great as always. Did you enjoy it?’
‘I was not expecting this at all.’
‘It’s happened so quickly.’

Shake hand, roll die repeatedly, write down resulting sentences and paragraphs. Roll cameras.

Clayton wasn’t transparent with the families? Hell of a time to bring that up! You already crossed the finish line, Big C! Don’t throw the damn thing into reverse now! Rachel is a producer’s dream, playing along with every scenario and prop no matter how predictable and obvious. This pair are so randy that the food is left alone as usual but so is the wine! Tsk tsk. A strange hand-in-hand walking tour of the smallish suite takes, oh, ten seconds or so. The ban on cameras in the bedroom isn’t categorical as we get a eyeful of Rachel with legs akimbo – but under a soundtrack of Susie voicing more disapproval of a sex-crazed Bachelor squiring multiple women in rapid succession with all of them aware of same.

Dawn breaks along – deep breath – Skólavörðustígur (damn right I copied and pasted) and we thank our stars that none of the cast will be attempting to pronounce any locations beyond the basic Iceland or, at a push, Reykjavik. The windows are etched with the word ‘session’ – which is what Clayton & Rachel have just had. Possibly more than one with the vibes Rachel was giving off.

The cameras are back again. And what happened to the traditional shot of doors being closed meaningfully and symbolically the night before? The fairies visited in the night to brush out Rachel’s hair and touch up her makeup for the ‘just woke up’ scenes. The Big L is finally exchanged – shouted, really - along Skólavörðustígur (pasted again, natch) which is mercifully empty.

Gabby and Susie are still jawboning the pros and cons of fantasy suites with Gabby strongly pro and Susie full-on con. Gabby’s fashion tic is the exposed shoulder – seems to be part of every outfit. Give the poor women a magazine or something to pass the time, please, even if it’s in Icelandic.

Rachel enters amidst a nearly-visible cloud of pheromones. ‘What’d you do?’ is the rather rhetorical question from Susie. Rachel is apologizing, but for what, exactly?

Gabby’s next. She wants a cruise, champagne and whales. We admire her optimism but she’ll have to settle for a side-by-side 4x4 since Chris Harrison’s severance took a bite out of the books. She is giving it the HARD sell but is Clayton buying? If he’s not, maybe that cocktail napkin of a dress Gabs is wearing may do the trick. Clayton pulled Rachel’s chair out but not Gabby’s. Oooh!  Foreshadowing?

The roll-of-the-dice dialogue is back. And Clayton is declaring his love…again? That volcanic cavern is nothing compared to the hole he’s digging for himself now but his lower half is now obviously governing his words and deeds.

Susie’s mind is spiraling so they built a nice staircase to match. As she’s talking herself (sensibly) out of the whole thing, a night of geodesic lust has concluded under the yurt with a now-standard suggestive shot of loose shoes and a cast-aside dress. Clayton departs with another declaration of love but the wording, crucially is different. But at least we’ve figured out who he’s been addressing in the umpteen preview segments they’ve aired.

Third-class emotional mail on slow boat from another hemisphere has finally reached Clayton who realizes he’s created quite the conundrum for himself. Ask not for whom he weeps…it’s all about him as usual. Susie is getting dolled up but her expression is that of a convict returning to court for sentencing. She manages to have a snippet of conversation in gale-force winds before going inside to be confronted with a serious pair of Nordic eyebrows on the spa hostess.

If women dislike being cold in a room, they definitely don’t like snow, ice, mist, cold water and voluntarily (?) subjecting themselves to same. Susie is justifiably fearless in a bikini but freezing her mic pack off, understandably.

Clayton has the virtual shovel out and is digging down some more by using the L word…again. Wandering eye? Short attention span? Emotionally stunted and unsure of what love really means? Just plain old horny? Probably all of these. The Journey™ to Clayton means getting his leg over and the devil take the hindmost.

The Bachelor is putting the bore in the aurora borealis but we’d rather focus on Susie’s plunging neckline and hectares of cleavage anyway. The camera shots are gratuitous but glorious. Her heart may not be full at this point but her DMs undoubtedly are. She needs a dating show to find a man like she needs another ice bath.

Clayton trots out the same lines in the same order and is dismayed to learn that it may not result in a third consecutive night of priapism. Susie is voicing her 159th variation of ‘you’re not getting any tonight or until we’re exclusive’ and rightly so. She’s got Clayton bang to rights and he confesses but only to an assignation with an unnamed ‘someone else.’ Is that one someone else or two though?

The tight end with the loose belt buckle is throwing the Hail Mary now – ‘I am the most in love with you.’ But the Blessed Virgin isn’t having it. Clayton desperately tries to un-ring two bells but the peals are reverberating through the room. Susie wonders why he didn’t think it through but introspection and planning aren’t his long suit. He’s inching ever closer to adolescent ‘I did it for you’ territory. Now he’s trying to shift the blame to the blameless. She ought to give him a dry slap for his impudence.

Why is Clayton throwing a tantrum? He made his bed good and proper. ‘Why would you not tell me that?’ Is he having a laugh? Why would he assume otherwise? Susie is a pageant-girl pleaser but she has her very reasonable limits. Clayton is now in ‘You made me do it’ mode – pathetic, off-putting and more than a little bit scary. Jokes aside, this is one emotionally stunted individual with some very strange ideas about commitment and boundaries. He’s starting to sound like a stock villain boyfriend from a John Hughes film.

Only Clayton is allowed to be a victim in Claytonland, even if that means victimizing and scapegoating someone else. But wait – he isn’t done punching the buttons on his personal elevator of morality. ‘Because of my faith I believe everything happens for a reason.’ That isn’t religion; it’s trite rationalization.

Save the tears, Susie, you’ve had the luckiest of escapes. And with your reputation intact.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Rainsong

[Quiet1]

I like Gabby too. I think she is funny and enjoys life. A fun person to hang out with. She just needs to stop with "yeah" and bobble head motions. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I mentioned Hannah B and Luke upthread.   I think the situations are similar but not identical.  Luke questioned her morals and character.    Susie just said that if truly loved her why would he sleep with/say he loved the other 2.    Also, Hannah didn’t tell Luke she loved him., unlike Clayton and his entire F3. 

Also, Luke was doing a "Born-Again Virgin" shtick; he'd gone from screwing anyone with a pulse to insisting that he AND anyone he was interested in must remain chaste until he personally says otherwise.

As for Clayton: I understand that The Bachelor has two more shows it's contractually obligated to air involving him, but if they don't afterwards permanently exile him from the franchise à la Luke Pell or Colton Underwood, I'm done with anything labeled Bachelor. Clayton's behavior was horrid, disgusting and not something I wish to watch or reward on any level.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS
Edited because "Clayton" and "Colton" are different names.

[phlebas]

13 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Also, Luke was doing a "Born-Again Virgin" shtick; he'd gone from screwing anyone with a pulse to insisting that he AND anyone he was interested in must remain chaste until he personally says otherwise.

As for Clayton: I understand that the Bachelor has two more shows it's contractually obligated to air involving him, but if they don't afterwards permanently exile him from the franchise à la Luke Pell or Clayton Underwood, I'm done with anything labeled Bachelor. Clayton's behavior was horrid, disgusting and not something I wish to watch or reward on any level.

COLTON Underwood.  Understandable mistake :)

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

3 minutes ago, phlebas said:

COLTON Underwood.  Understandable mistake :)

Oops! Corrected.

 

 

[alexa]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

I mentioned Hannah B and Luke upthread.   I think the situations are similar but not identical.  Luke questioned her morals and character.    Susie just said that if truly loved her why would he sleep with/say he loved the other 2.    Also, Hannah didn’t tell Luke she loved him., unlike Clayton and his entire F3. 

I agree.  I think that was completely different.  Luke had a completely different approach, and Susie was focused on her more personal feelings about it, and how she personally would have a hard time being with him if he loved and slept with the others.  Luke's approach was much more insulting and focused on the sex act in general, imo.

[tinkerbell]

5 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

Ok…… why does gabby wear all her jackets off of her . Omg i just cant with her .

I was wondering if she had the smallest, slipperiest shoulders in the world and jackets just can NOT stay put. 

[Bluesky]

18 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Clayton really is a cad, telling three women he loves them.

He’s covering his bases.  I mostly ff to see the scenery but slowed down with the last one.  His facial expressions were like a little kids. “Did you sleep with them”. Then you could see the wheels turning, calculating whether to come clean or not.  And finally the indignant looks “how dare you!” Going on the offense  Turning himself into the victim.
 

How do they drag this out for two more shows? 

[tennisgurl]

Well, on the plus side...Iceland is really pretty. Too bad the rest of the episode was so damn ugly, those last twenty minutes were ridiculously uncomfortable. I have mostly thought that Clayton throughout the season was a decent enough guy who was in over his head, was a bit on the dim side, and let his low self esteem and people pleaser tendencies lead to him making dumb choice after dumb choice, but this episode showed a really ugly side. No wonder he has spent all season on social media and on Women Tell All focusing on how much he has "grown" due to "mistakes" this season, he knew how bad all of this was going to look. The way he treated Suzie was horrible, gaslighting her and trying to invalidate her feelings while acting like a petty child, throwing a tantrum because he isn't getting his next fantasy suite. He went so quickly from "your the one I love most" to "I cant even look at you" it was extremely disconcerting. He went from apparently loving her to casting her as the villain of the story in about three seconds, trying to make HER apologize for actually sharing feelings, really everyone in this thread has already said everything I could say, I just want to add that he has really turned out to be an enormous asshole and this really cast a more sinister cloud over his earlier actions. What I think a lot of us were willing to write off as personal problems are probably more of the same, an extremely immature, entitled, gaslighting selfish dickhead.

Lets also not forget that he lied to Suzie about who he had slept with and who he was falling for, he only admitted the truth when he got caught and was too dumb to know how to cover his lies up.

The weird thing is, he actually had a half way decent point for a second before he went off the rails. Clayton dating several women is the point of the show and Suzie knows this and she knows what happens during fantasy suites, it probably is unfair for her to expect him to pick her early when she always knew that this was how the show would go. But while its probably unfair, it is still a valid thing to be unhappy about and something that they really should talk about, but Clayton was just SO angry that she would even dare bring it up, he lost any sympathy I might have had for him. It totally makes sense that she would feel unsure about his feelings towards her, but instead of honestly trying to assuage her fears, he immediately lashed out and acted like she was a horrible monster for even daring to not be thrilled at the prospect of sharing Clayton with two other women.

Clayton was clearly a terrible choice for Bachelor, and next weeks looks like its only going to get worse. At least with Clare we learned quickly on that she was a terrible Bachelorette and they managed to bring in someone else to salvage the season, now its too late.

Edited March 9, 2022 by tennisgurl

[tinkerbell]

4 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

I'm really surprised that Clay-en has gone dark and didn't issue the standard Bachelor-speak apology for his actions last night.  I suspect that during filming, the producers egged him on to take his walls down and express his love and explore the relationships in their private time. Maybe he even said but won't it look bad to say ILY and then reject them? They then fed him the standard line that it's all part of the process and part of the journey and each finalist knows that they are risking heartbreak at the end. So go for it! And Clay-en stupidly believed them, because that anger he was directing at the producers last night was meant for them, and it had the feel of someone who did something stupid when he knew it might be stupid but he disregarded his gut feelings and took their advice, which was purposely meant to create drama and not help him or any of the finalists have a happy ending. What a mess.  Anyway, my point is, it doesn't look good to be hiding out from social media when the Bachelor nation is on fire and you set the fire. 

Yes, I think that Clayton is very easily influenced by others.  Evidenced by - any time one woman says another is "fake", he feels the need to investigate, solve the issue, and eliminate someone.   

How easy it would be for the producers to tell him that of COURSE he should have sex with the top 3 women, to make sure he chooses the right one.  How else could he know for sure who he wants to marry?   Yes, he was stupid, but  it's pretty clear that he could be convinced that it's normal to be in love with all three women and use the fantasy suite date to "test drive" them all to make his decision. 

[silversage]

Susie wins the battle of how many "likes" one can cram in a sentence. I turned on the caption and one run on sentence had eight of them.

 

[DEL901]

I almost forgot about Clayton lying about how many women he’d slept with and declared love for.     He kept choosing is wording carefully, so carefully that anyone would be suspicious.  Then he just blurted out BOTH!   And then tried to justify it because he loved them….although not as much as he loved Susie.   

For all he talked about them discussing the situation, what he meant was for Susie to come to her senses and get over it.  

And I’m sure his faith leader might have something to say about “everything happening for a reason” being interpreted as it being okay to have sex with three women in a row after declaring his love for each of them so that they all, except Susie who asked the difficult question, thought they were the ONE.  

[Blintzie]

That last 20 minutes was truly disgusting. In Katie’s season when she accused Greg of “gaslighting” her, I had no idea what she was talking about. I was firmly on Team Greg. It’s fine to intellectually understand the concept of the Bachelor/Bachelorette, but if you actually start having genuine feelings for someone, and you think those feelings are reciprocated, it’s not unreasonable to think the person you love would abstain from declaring their love/sleeping with other people a week before you get engaged! What we saw last night: that was gaslighting. Susie had no reason to apologize, and I’m so glad she didn’t end up sleeping with that nitwit. I hope Clayton gets eviscerated in the final episodes and on social media. 

[call me ishmael]

2 hours ago, econ07 said:

I do appreciate the difference in saying you love someone.  However, I do think that Luke was essentially saying the same thing as Susie, whereas it was interpreted as him questioning Hannah's character.  And in Luke's case, he even said that they could get past it if they ended up together, which would make him appear as less of a slut-shamer than Susie if this prevents Susie from accepting a proposal or self-evicting.

I’ve been thinking about your point (what does that say about my life 🥺) and i still think it is pretty different.  I don’t think that people would have responded the same way if Luke P hadn’t been telling Hannah how ro behave throughout the entire season.  Basically he was acting like a very old school husband throughout the whole season telling her what she should and shouldn’t do.

Susie can be criticized for ignoring what often happens on this show.  But basically Clayton was telling her that he knew she was number 1 but hey he felt like sleeping with the other two anyway.  It was just a bachelor party.  And she was saying if you knew i was number 1 why would you want to.

Also, as people commented above what does this say about his treatment of Rachel and Gabby who each slept with someone who was “falling in love with them” a few days before he was going to dump them (apparently that didn’t dawn on him till after he had “gotten intimate” with someone, err two someones.

i remember when everyone hated Nick Viall because he asked Andi what she was thinking doing “fiance stuff” with him when she knew she was picking the other guy.  He got blasted because no one had ever asked that and it looked like a double standard because she was a woman.  But it’s a reasonable question.

[Adeejay]

20 hours ago, Amy Beth said:

Did the F3 hang out between dates in previous seasons? I thought they were usually separated at this point. 

In the earlier seasons, the F3 did not hang out between dates.  This was due to the fact that the Bachelor took each lady somewhere different for the overnighter.  For example, during Andrew Firestone's season, he took Kirsten to Utah, Jen to Arizona and Tina to Hawaii.  

Unpopular opinion.  It kills me when folks go on the show and then get all high and mighty about the fantasy suite or have a startling realization that the lead is dating more than one person.  It's part of the premise of the show. If you feel that way, don't sign up.  

[PBnJay]

3 hours ago, Rainsong said:

We can only wonder what the Vikings who first saw the remote island must have thought of the alien landscape but at least one of them said to himself ‘This would be a good place to settle down.’

Am I the only one who was expecting, and then vaguely disappointed, the Viking did not say 'This would be a good place to fall in love.'

Great recap as always, @Rainsong.

[Recyclorette]

3 hours ago, econ07 said:

If I recall back to an earlier season, Hannah Brown accused some guy named Luke of slut-shaming when she slept with one of the other contestants.  I remember coming on here and saying that Luke had every right not to want someone he might propose to, to be sleeping around with everybody, and many of you disagreed.

By that logic, how is Susie not slut-shaming Clayton.

For the record, I don't think she is.  I think Susie in Clayton's season and Luke in Hannah's season were asking very logical questions central to love and trust.

I don't think Susie was slut shaming Clayton at all.  She just stated her truth as to what she herself could and could not accept.

Luke, on the other hand, seemed to be trying to foist his truth on Hannah.  Yes, he was judging her.  

During Hannah's season, I stated here that I felt religion should not be a part of this show and I got some disagreement, too.  Some pointed out that it was important for couples to discuss this topic.  I agree, I just think it should be done during their private time.  Viewers of all faiths most likely watch this show and the Lukes, Sean Lowes, etc., certainly feel to me like they might have gone on this show to proselytize. 

Clayton perfectly exemplified what I find offensive about this when he said he relied on his "faith" while abusing Susie.  He was using that to shame and manipulate her, and that seems to be the direction too many comments of this type take.  

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

I was wondering if she had the smallest, slipperiest shoulders in the world and jackets just can NOT stay put. 

And the most annoying voice . Oh my god get her off my screen. How does anyone listen to that day in, day out ??and the stupid giggle. Ugh.

[b2H]

19 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I feel like I witnessed something really disturbing tonight.  It’s going to take a while to cool off. I really hope it’s not Susie’s door he’s knocking on next week. 

I find myself hoping it's Shenae.  Those two deserve each other.  

[nlkm9]

Omg!! Lol when ckayton saw susie he actually said “ do the jump!!” So they Actually are told to do it . 
by the way while I understoof what gabby meant to say i want you to explore your options and choose me, but it was sort if deneaning how she basically was saying its ok clayton to sleep with the others and then come to me. I think gabby is sooo needy it makes me sad.
 

[DEL901]

19 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I feel like I witnessed something really disturbing tonight.  It’s going to take a while to cool off. I really hope it’s not Susie’s door he’s knocking on next week. 

 

5 minutes ago, b2H said:

I find myself hoping it's Shenae.  Those two deserve each other.  

Sadly Shanae is not in Iceland.  If it is Susie, I hope that means the other two dumped him and he is ready to grovel.    But given how misdirection works on this show, it is probably his parents’ room.  

[LindaT]

"...if I had known that telling all three women I was in love with them and effing two of them and gaslighting one of them was frowned upon..."

Clayton, if you think you are "in love" with all three of them, you really aren't in love with any of them.