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S19.E02: #Streetwear


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5 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Katie designs for a demented Raggedy Ann.

While I agree, I still found her look in this episode perfectly cromulant with its Tokyo cartoon vibe, especially for streetwear.  But yes, in general, no.

31 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

I thought the overall, the argument really crystalized how things can spiral out of control with people and their various privileges (being a man vs. being a woman, black vs. white, etc.) go sort of unchecked and left to chaos.

Astute and accurate.

Edited by Lassus
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1 hour ago, raven said:

That was some ugly runway.   What is it with dangly things on clothes?  This is what I get for not being young and hip and cool - the only adjectives allowed on PR.

I didn't realize the show was back and turned in for this one, lol.  I turned it off at the judges' disingenuous "something happened?  we had NO IDEA.  Oh someone, please tell us about the work room drama we didn't know about"   Sure thing, judges.

Love ya Christian but you should not have asked for the model switch.  Like that designer (sorry, first ep, don't know everyone's name) would have told you no.  He's the mentor or whatever his title is and she's gong to say no to him?  Of course not.  It set the tone going forward, though the various bullyings/dramas/meltdowns were not Christian's fault but that of the various players involved. 

 

You forgot "fresh".  I heard it so many times last night that i kinda wished I had some booze for a drinking game.  It would've made the whole episode better....

Also, agree with the bolded.  They didn't know?  Bull.  They were down a whole designer and didn't even comment on it.

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53 minutes ago, Lassus said:

While I agree, I still found her look in this episode perfectly cromulant with its Tokyo cartoon vibe, especially for streetwear.  But yes, in general, no.

Astute and accurate.

cromulant? i had to look that one up

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9 hours ago, candall said:

Wow.  No kindness, no generosity or compassion for Meg, who was really not psychologically equipped for this competition in the first place. 

She talked too much and she was annoying, but she'd probably want to go home and cut her wrists if she heard people say she thought of herself as a "white savior" or accused her of effecting the hubris to explain cultural appropriation to brown and black people.

She was just a socially inept, emotionally fragile woman who made the horrible mistake of thinking being on Project Runway made her the same as all the other cool kids.

.

Thank you,  that was kind of my take on her too.  I have been that person before, trying too hard and trying to prove my liberal bonafides.   

 

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There were a lot of social complexities in this episode, muddied by some truly horrific personalities. Meg was awful. Kenneth had bad timing. Prajje had been frustrated with Meg from the morning and then let it out in the workroom. I felt bad for the models. I felt bad for Zayden, who was just trying to sew.

I felt bad for those who had really great outfits (Aaron) who get so little screen time, and the other designers, who could really benefit from constructive critiques, not getting a chance to hear from the judges. (Hi, Sabrina, great top, stupid car wash flaps, and where are the pants?)

I'm very, very glad that Meg will no longer be on my screen. 

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5 hours ago, BlueHawk said:

 

Zaydens face when he suddenly found himself between Meg and Prajje (sp) yelling at each other was priceless & hilarious! I rewound that scene 3 times the laugh I had was so good! Hope he sticks around --- funny and grounded is definitely needed.

 

Zayden has stolen my heart, for this moment and then his general - people need to calm down - attitude when he was painting his coat.

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10 hours ago, MuMuGuy said:

Meg went full Gretchen Jones at that point.

Gretchen is the reason I'll never watch that season again.  I don't think Meg is untalented, but some people are just not meant to be contestants on reality programs.    

I'm a Zayden fan as well, he or Aaron could have won and I'd have been happy.   

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30 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I was surprised the body suit with the tutu on suspenders didn't make the top - mainly so Brandon could wax poetic on how much he loves a REVEAL!

That look he got during the reveal, he enjoyed it. It was nice and dramatic but if that was street wear, I'm walking down the wrong streets.

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38 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

I was surprised the body suit with the tutu on suspenders didn't make the top - mainly so Brandon could wax poetic on how much he loves a REVEAL!

He did get to say how much they like a two-fer when he realized some jacket was reversible.  But what was odd was that it looked like the reversability wasn't shown on the runway, but instead during the judging. 

One thing that cracked me up was that when Meg was screaming about taking off her microphone, you could tell that her "shirt" wasn't a t-shirt with gigantic armholes, as I originally thought, but instead two dangling vertical pieces of fabric tucked into her waistband, like a giant dickie.  And then on the runway, there was an outfit with two straps of fabric coming out of the crotch of the pants, which I didn't really understand, but it had a shirt that was just two pieces of fabric dangling there, just like Meg's, albeit with a matching piece of crotch strap stuck on it.  And Nina or Elaine admiringly said they'd never seen a shirt like that. 

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Meg seemed exhausting to be around, she was also crying last week and bitching repeatedly at the beginning of this episode because it was getting late. She went from passive aggressive to straight up aggressive towards Kenneth and I don't think she would have behaved that way towards someone more outspoken. Yes, it was way late to be asking for a switch, and I think he only came to his decision when he realized Prajje was bound to get lavished by the judges, but I think at least some of the designers would have defended her if she'd said "I've already designed, patterned at this point, I wish you'd have come to me this morning." It's telling that everybody either defended Kenneth or kept their opinion to themselves.

Edited by dmeets
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I'm re-watching, and Christian instigated one model switch and one was spontaneous. The first was the night before, taking a white male model and asking to switch him with Coral's model. The next day, Ken spontaneously (and no doubt emboldened by Prajje's move) asked Meg to switch her Asian model and take a white one.

I thought the whole idea about inclusiveness was not putting people into cubby holes? PR has always been about Making It Work. Work with what you have.

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16 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I thought the whole idea about inclusiveness was not putting people into cubby holes? PR has always been about Making It Work. Work with what you have.

I do get that *given what Prajje wanted to do* it wouldn't have worked with a white guy. But he didn't have to go down that particular path, as much as he was fixated on it.

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30 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

there was an outfit with two straps of fabric coming out of the crotch of the pants

Was that the car wash outfit? Not that I don't want straps dangling from my crotch. I'll stand on my car and dance to YMCA wearing that.

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50 minutes ago, nokat said:

Was that the car wash outfit? Not that I don't want straps dangling from my crotch. I'll stand on my car and dance to YMCA wearing that.

No, it was just two straps hanging from the crotch, not an octopus's worth.  It was one of the designs in the top four.  Maybe Zayden's?  I wish they had a page with all the runway looks. 

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Sabrina did the car wash look.  Aaron did a butt apron with side flaps.  Darren had a string belt, Kenneth had a crotch string and a side flap, Kristina did a bunch of straps hanging from wrists and the back, Shantall had s string loop under the breasts, Ocravio had a construction worker colored belt around the waist and hanging in front of the crotch, Coral had a bunch of fringe strings on the jacket, Bones used his model's braids to create long front strings, and Zayden had the two big loopsstraps hanging from the crotch area, and a wide strap across the top that hung off the sides.  

I missed one or two that had small strings and straps here and there, but they mostly all embraced modified car wash in some form.

Edited by izabella
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5 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

Also re Meg. I think she meant no ill will or malice. She was saying (over and over) that she was an ally. I get her struggle, but she could have said it much better. 

She hasn’t learned that being a real ally means listening and not making it all about you. Unfortunately, that’s all too common. But we learned from the first episode that Meg's MO was making it all about her, so it’s no real surprise that she hadn’t got that memo. 

Incidentally, I keep seeing this Instacart commercial on Hulu that features a woman who’s a dead ringer for Meg.

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16 hours ago, Surrealist said:

If Meg had told Kenneth "No," I've no doubt he would have made a stink about that too.

Absolutely agree.   Meg wouldn't have understood how important it was to him culturally, etc, etc, etc. and she would have been lambasted.     Then he didn't use the kimono anyway!   

Meg was really obnoxious in her argument but I was surprised how everyone came at her.  Prajje should have stayed out of it.  

Somehow I think Tim would have stepped in and settled this and Meg would have stayed.   (not for long, though)

So there is no "Heidi" this year?  Everyone seems to have equal say in  the discussions.  Weltroth, Garcia, and the guest influencer were good.  Brandon seemed to have gone mute.    I've missed five or six seasons, got sick of it, but thought I'd check it out.    

Edited by weaver
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17 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

So glad Meg left.  She was too much drama, even for this show.  And on a shallow note, she had an appalling sense of style!  What was with the dingy, poorly fitted bra under a ragged rectangle of fabric with a hole cut for her head??

 

Hahahhahahhaaaa, that is exactly what bugged me almost as much as her "look at how culturally aware I am, everyone -- just look!!!" behavior. I mean, whatever with the visible bra and the shirt (though it seems like it would be way less annoying to the wearer if it were attached just a little at the bottom), but why not a better bra in a pattern or a color? I was baffled! That said, I don't even own a white bra (because they get so grubby looking), so what do I know?

Edited by TattleTeeny
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5 hours ago, SweetSable said:

That's the only outfit I remotely liked.  For me this episode was a whole lot of ugly - both clothes and behavior.

That outfit was gorgeous.  And she didn't even make finals.  I did like the short reversible jacket outfit in the final three too.  

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Meg was annoying on so many fronts. Last week’s loud sniffling through others mediation, then this week’s debacle.

She was absolutely tone deaf at breakfast, practically lecturing POC on cultural appropriation (Meg, please, they already know this).

Apparently Meg inserted herself into Prajje’s wanting the Black model (it wasn’t shown but referenced in the later argument). Meg supported Prajje getting the Black model.

Later, she was asked to do the very same thing she supported before-allow a person of color to have a model that reflected the designer. This time, it is SHE who must give something up and WHOA, the brakes came on.

Then she came up with an imaginary argument about what possibly could happen, if she didn’t agree. Instead of calmly stating why she didn’t want to trade, or trading with grace, she did the worst possible thing and agreed to trade in the rudest way possible. In the resulting kerfuffle, after Prajje yelled at Meg, Meg took it out on Kenneth.

I do think she is too thinned skinned for this arena. I also think she is clueless, rather than outright obnoxious.

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Ahh finally the ep which didn't repeat last night in my area, is up on demand. I came in 15 mins late and had no idea why Prajje was getting into the model swap convo gone wrong between Meg and Kenneth.

or about he dingy bra thing. 😮

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16 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Meg could not have refused, not after her verbose "I'm so woke, you can't believe" BS. She made the bed she didn't want to sleep in, so she quit! 

As annoying as she was, completely unaware that people were not responding well to her speeches, they bullied her and no one came to her aid.  
Interesting how all the loud mouth drama queens were seated together.  No plus size models this week.  They focused on race this week and looks like the show might have manipulated and hoped for this.  Pretty shitty to watch.   
The Haitian designer and “his people” was a bully and obnoxious but he is talented. Good luck to him if he can’t stand the idea of white men wearing his designs.  He moved to America, a melting pot, can’t exclude that many people from your business and succeed.   

I like how the guest judge called out the one who took random materials from other designers to help him get through the most humiliating moment of his life . The guest designer let him know that putting personal items in your designs only works if people want to buy it.  

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I didn’t hear Prajje say he couldn’t stand the idea of white men wearing his clothes. Not a single word. Prajje, in fact did for Kenneth what some say they wished happened for Meg. He defended Kenneth against a bully. Meg was the bully to Kenneth. She yelled at him, told him to “shut up.”

After Prajje took Meg to task, Meg then went and yelled at Kenneth some more.

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2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

 Her annoyance was justified, but she went way over the top and out of line. Kenneth was ready to back down. She could have said something like "you know, I've been thinking and in light of all the work I've put in I can't risk it. I do understand where you're coming from. Next time maybe we could address something like this a little earlier?" Then she was so full of rage she was mad at everyone! She was yelling at her model, for crying out loud. For having the audacity to speak. She was furious at Prajje "I've already shown you that I am a 'good white person'! Why are you so ungrateful?" And continuously referring to "the race thing"? Her heart may have been in the right place but oh so tone deaf, so unwilling to listen. 

Meg tried to appear to Prajje as an ally, but she did the standard "white lady" thing and made it all about her. The first thing a potential ally needs to learn is to sit back and listen, not turn on the tears and suck up all the energy in the room. I'm an old white lady and I wanted to smack her. Seriously? "I understand what you're going through as a person of color because I didn't see plus size ladies on TV when I was a kid"? Girl. Respect a person's lived experience. 

100%. The only sympathy I have for Meg is that she has lived this long with such terribly poor social skills, and that she showed her ass on national TV. Kenneth seemed like a very meek person. If she had said no when he originally suggested the change, or after considering it for a bit, she would have been fine. Sure, one of the other designers might have objected (the way Prajje ultimately did), but she would have been on firm ethical footing in saying no. Instead she said yes -- TWICE -- and acted like a martyr and then like a straight-up asshole. "Just stop talking." -- who the eff does she think she is? That is asshole behavior. 

I wonder if she will acknowledge it? (I'm remembering a few seasons ago on Project Runway Texas -- Ken Lee was PISSED at Sarah for leaving a challenge to seek medical help. At the reunion show, he completely owned his dick behavior. He didn't have to do it -- Sarah was the "villain" of that season -- but because he a grown-up he apologized sincerely.)

Also, re: her anger at her model -- nobody, no matter how oppressed their particular group has been historically or systemically -- has the right to be abusive toward another person. Just because her model is male and she is female does not mean his gentle comment -- probably to try to ease the molasses-level tension -- was misogynist. Woman or man, she was absolutely out of line in her language and behavior toward Kenneth when their models arrived.

1 hour ago, bourbon said:

Exactly. There was nothing hateful and probably nothing "fake" about Meg's conversation with Prajje about being "offended on [his] behalf" about cultural appropriation. She was guilty of nothing more than being a try-hard. It's awkward but well-intentioned and if Prajje, as he said, was uncomfortable, he could have diffused her rant there and then with "Yeah, I get it." This was about "privilege" and power...but Meg had none of it. Kenneth and Prajje were holding all the cards, and play them, they did. 

But...this show has long had a bullying problem.

I have to disagree here. Harmful behavior is still harmful even if the intent is not to harm. In the morning, Meg was overboard with the microaggressions toward Prajje (whitesplaining, interrupting, cultural appropriation) and it's not surprising that it triggered some anger from Prajje.

I'm not sure where the power discussion comes in -- Prajje and Kenneth may have had power than Meg in terms of social capital amongst the designers, because by that point I imagine the designers had realized Meg was a needy and performative person who was hard to be around. But historically, which is where systems of privilege come into play, someone like Meg is more likely to have power and privilege than Prajje and Kenneth, and I think that's where Prajje's beef was.

I thought Kenneth came across as sincere. Yes, his patchwork designs a steaming hot mess. I'd like to see what else he has to offer.

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1 hour ago, NYCFree said:

I didn’t hear Prajje say he couldn’t stand the idea of white men wearing his clothes. Not a single word. Prajje, in fact did for Kenneth what some say they wished happened for Meg. He defended Kenneth against a bully. Meg was the bully to Kenneth. She yelled at him, told him to “shut up.”

After Prajje took Meg to task, Meg then went and yelled at Kenneth some more.

He said it would be disrespectful to his people to see a white man wear it.  They spoke of cultural appropriation.   It’s why he switched models, because he didn’t want to use the white one.  
It’s not Prajje’s job to take Meg to task.   He needed to mind his business and let Kenneth be a grown up and walk away.  

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45 minutes ago, lovinbob said:

Harmful behavior is still harmful even if the intent is not to harm

1) That's a very broad statement that I can't either agree or disagree with, and that's the problem 2) what was her "harmful" behavior? Annoying and overboard yes, but harmful? I'm not buying it. And how did she whitesplain? How did she have microaggressions? And how on earth did she do "cultural appropriation?" She was trying way too hard to show her liberal cred, but it seems she was in a no win situation. Be interested in my problems, but not *too* interested. Care about my culture, but not *too* much. Take the blame for my lot in life, but not *too* much blame. Apologize to me, but not *too* much. Someone like Meg is more likely to have privilege and power in many situations. But -- for a variety of reasons -- not in this workroom. 

But anyway, it's a show about fashion not Sociology 101. 

Edited by bourbon
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1 hour ago, Bluesky said:

No plus size models this week. 

It was a little hard to tell from the runway because the outfits themselves were so big, but I was on the lookout and remember seeing one woman who might not have been a stick.  No curvy men, though.  Why aren't they being represented?  Flat-assed men with beer guts wear clothes, too!  And they all think they look fantastic, so the designers will have confident models.

In other shallow news, that one male model with the giant nose.  I feel kind of bad for saying this, but good heavens he was ugly.  I've become accustomed to female models who I don't think are traditionally pretty but I understand they may have a face the camera loves, or they may have an excellent runway walk, but I can't see a camera loving that guy's face, and most (all?) of the males on the runway looked bowlegged when they were walking, and it's distracting.

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24 minutes ago, bourbon said:

 

But anyway, it's a show about fashion not Sociology 101. 

And we are all talking about it.  This is the kind of stuff reality show producers and editors dream of. Two quick notes:

1. My love for Silver Fox Aaron grows 

2. DD can walk the f*** out of clothes.

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19 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

Of all the people, the only one I really felt bad for was Coral because she and Prajje had already had a discussion about switching models and she had already told him no so it should have been a moot issue at that point. But there came Christian to ask her again.

Ah, I'd forgotten that there was an initial refusal.  And really, Christian "asking"?  I think it's more than that.  Unless you're Bones, and even then, you have to apologize later.

And, so much for all the designers braying that Meg could have just said no.  How did that work out for Coral?

I felt bad for the white model in the Meg-Kenneth trade.  He was just sloughed over to Meg, without anybody telling his new designer what a great catch he was, like Christian did for the other one, saying how he was instrumental in Geoffrey's win last season.  Nope.  It was just "Kenneth wants Meg's model, and the only thing he has to trade for him is you.  Shoo."

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4 minutes ago, IdEatThat said:

I don’t know when I’ve watched a more unpleasant hour of tv.  The drama, the bullying, the fugly clothes and then no one goes home.  BS to all of it. 

It was unpleasant, but I guess you haven’t watched this season of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills with Ericka, have you?  😂😫😂

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1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

It was a little hard to tell from the runway because the outfits themselves were so big, but I was on the lookout and remember seeing one woman who might not have been a stick.  No curvy men, though.  Why aren't they being represented?  Flat-assed men with beer guts wear clothes, too!  And they all think they look fantastic, so the designers will have confident models.

In other shallow news, that one male model with the giant nose.  I feel kind of bad for saying this, but good heavens he was ugly.  I've become accustomed to female models who I don't think are traditionally pretty but I understand they may have a face the camera loves, or they may have an excellent runway walk, but I can't see a camera loving that guy's face, and most (all?) of the males on the runway looked bowlegged when they were walking, and it's distracting.

You make a good point. If we have curvy women, why not men with moobs and beer guts. Men with frog butts.

There are people who photograph well, especially with a photographer who knows how to make them look good, but they are fugly up close or on video.

That said, when the models come in to the workroom, it's funny to see the designers next to the giants.

Edited by nokat
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54 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

Of all the people, the only one I really felt bad for was Coral because she and Prajje had already had a discussion about switching models and she had already told him no so it should have been a moot issue at that point. But there came Christian to ask her again.

There were several times that someone not saying or doing something could have stopped this whole mess. Making the wrong decision at those times started right there, with Christian. Prajje had asked Coral to switch models, she'd said no, end of story. If ever there was a make it work moment, this was it. Prajje was stuck in his vision. It was Christian's job to try to get him to reframe it to work with the model he had. Instead, Christian threw his weight around. He may not be a judge, but he's still PR professional staff and should have maintained professional distance.

I wonder if there's somebody whose job it is to drape the judges' clothing. Last week someone had to pool Elaine's dress around her feet, this week Nina's sleeves needed artful arranging and probably picked up and wrapped around her so she could walk. I can't wait until it's Brandon's turn to be draped, otherwise I'd hope PR would fire that person and hire some extra models.

 

 

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Ah, I'd forgotten that there was an initial refusal.  And really, Christian "asking"? 

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There were several times that someone not saying or doing something could have stopped this whole mess. Making the wrong decision at those times started right there, with Christian.

I've been saying for three seasons now, that Christian is there to hand out snarky soundbites and promote himself, not help the contestants. He's just a shit-stirrer. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

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