S11.E08: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly Leather Pants

[Yours Truly]

24 minutes ago, byrd said:

Absolutely, she's not going to take back the word because she knows it drives Sutton bat shit crazy ! Sutton has fed right into Crystals hands. All Sutton had to do after she and Crystal agreed to put it to rest,  is not give a damn when the topic surfaced again.  Tell those witches that you are done with it and have no comments.  Moving on ! 

That's hard to do when KYLE keeps bringing it up. Kyle's the one that brought it up AGAIN last episode at the table. Not to mention Kathy's little quip that had both Kyle and Kathy having one of those "mean girl" laughs at someone else's expense that Kyle is famous for. Mean girls think it's no big deal and can usually incorporate it "innocently" into a group setting for ultimate effect but still with enough lightheartedness (wink) to claim innocent intentions IF called on it. 

Gurl bye!!

I hate the narrative that someone who is emotionally sensitive should ultimately be the bad guy in these situations. It's obvious that Sutton is emotionally fragile. Why is that referenced in such an angered way? She exhausting, she's being irrational, it's draining, it's frustrating.  To expect someone to have a better handle on their emotional distress when it's been expressed the person has had these challenges all their lives seems rather cruel and demanding.  So in order to justify this behavior towards someone not as equipped to be level headed we come up with "weaponizing emotions" and that's really not fair. I think if anyone is weaponizing emotions is Crystal with her trumped up account of what truly happened in her room and Suttons behavior. Sutton is just being herself. Albeit an emotional mess but I mean what can you do about that besides try to maneuver around it as smoothly as possible? What would be the point of taking the opposite route when dealing with her and causing even more distress? The Sick satisfaction of causing Sutton to completely melt down. Do people really deserve that level of cruelty even if they are "exhausting" from time to time. It's just so outrageous to me how easy emotional fragility gets villainize while Crystal's cruel smirks of antagonism is justified all because Sutton is annoying.  That's what it basically boils down to and it's such a common sentiment in society. So sad.  

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, ichbin said:

Sutton is overly sensitive and high strung.

Crystal takes obvious delight (or perhaps even a sense of power) in Sutton's discomfort or agitation.

Says more about Crystal than Sutton. 

I think if Crystal took so much pleasure in it she'd do something to make it happen. Sutton got stirred up all on her own and then walked away. Nobody even knew what she was upset about until she burst out about Crystal again. 

I think what Crystal enjoys is just not giving in to Sutton once she's started. No, you're not getting the new doll you want no matter how much you cry.

 

5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I do not celebrate Christmas so I am wondering about decorating the house for the holiday, isn't is supposed to be a personal thing with family heirlooms and such...department store like decor in your house seems so impersonal.  I guess it is the easiest way to get rid of everything when the holiday is over, let some one else clean it all up.

Seems like with this crowd they'd decorate this way--it's more about an elaborate show than regular Christmas.

5 hours ago, renatae said:

I'm also having trouble with oversensitive Crystal. Someone once said she's too sensitive for this type of show, and I agree.  It's  OK for her to feel violated, but it's not OK for her to state that Sutton violated her. Sutton did knock. She wasn't being "Tomasina." They both need to drop it.

Crystal's stated multiple times that she *felt* violated because somebody walked in on her. Sutton keeps repeating that she's been accused of violating her because that makes her the victim in ways she is not.

Quote

Yes, Wronged Erika is revolting.

Harry Hamlin had an affair with Ursula Andress? She had their baby at 44? I had no idea.

I didn't think that example really fit. The trouble isn't that the guy is so much older, but that he's so much older when Lisa's daughter is still a teenager. Harry was an adult. This guy's going after an adolescent.

2 hours ago, chlban said:

I thought Crystal's apparent analysis of why Sutton is after her is jealousy was telling. No, Honey, everyone is not jealous because you married some rich old geezer that some of us have never heard of.

I didn't even get what she was trying to imply. The only thing I could think of Sutton being jealous of in that moment was not being asked to go in on the gift--and that seemed more like feeling left out. I don't get what Sutton would have to be jealous of either. That Crystal is still currently married? That's a reach. Does Crystal just think everybody's jealous of her? Because I've got a lot less than Sutton does and I am definitely not jealous of her.

Quote

So while I am not team either one, I would hope Sutton would reel it in because she is setting herself up to be this season's victim and Crystal is loving it. Too bad she (Sutton) doesn't have a good friend to tell her the truth. Maybe Garcelle will try, heaven knows none of these other witches will. 

I think it would be pretty hard to be in Crystal's place in that moment and not enjoy Sutton succeeding in getting everybody to join in attacking me for no reason at a party. Who wouldn't be?

The other ladies did tell her the truth when she was having the last meltdown, they just do it gently. 

I did laugh when Garcelle was asking Sutton what she wanted from Crystal and she said, "AN APOLOGY!" And Garcelle started to say, "Okay, so..." and then Crystal just lightly said, "No." And Garcelle said, "Oh. Okay!"

 

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

When Crystal realized Sutton was bringing up the violate thing again, her immediate response was, "wait, me again". As in she didn't even realize until that moment, Sutton's latest nutty meltdown had anything to do with her, since in Crystal's mind, she was likely thinking she was just sitting there enjoying Garcelle's mini birthday celebration.

Yup. Also it was funny when Sutton, iirc, finally came out with it in front of Crystal and Crystal said, "Oy." That's why Sutton told her not to minimize her feelings or whatever. (You know, the way Sutton demands Crystal minimize hers.)

 

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

That being said, I could like Sutton more but the weaponized fragility always bugs me because it's just another way to control the people around her.  The times when I liked Sutton the most is when she stands up for herself when she's actually been wronged. I liked the fact that last season, she stood up for herself against Dorit and Rinna, who were both accusing her of things she plainly didn't do.

Yes. Or like when she says things about how she's so kooky, implying that this is why people are mean to her when nobody's being mean to her and if they are it's not because she's kooky. She's not that kooky. She's pretty basic. 

2 hours ago, albarino said:

Sorry, don't see it.  Guess I missed Garcelle breaking down and people kicking sand in her face?  Bless her heart.

 

It's not really an individual thing. There is a historical pattern of celebrating white women for being fragile and weak while seeing non-white women as strong and tough--like literally scientists even claiming that black women couldn't feel pain etc. And those ideas are still with us, if not that bluntly. There's also a history of using white women as victims to justify lynchings etc. And in modern days, it's just easy for white women to derail things about racism by making it about how hurt they are (sometimes with the idea that being called racist is far worse than systemic racism etc.)

Of course I'm sure there's plenty of situations where the white women on this show would show sympathy to a non-white woman who's crying or hurt. Sutton just happens to be somebody who as an individual is comfortable as the fragile white woman who needs to be treated very gently. The fact that the first time she did it here she was making herself the victim in a conversation about racism was just all the more textbook. So there is something eye-rolling about Sutton standing up in the middle of somebody's birthday party because they can't stand being near Crystal's face, yelling at her and then not only being comforted by the people at the party when she starts crying, but having Crystal come out as the bad guy for not comforting her with them.

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

Oh, and there goes Sutton sneaking in another insinuation that Crystal was playing with herself and that's why she was upset. Yet somehow Crystal's the one who's making it "sexual?"

Yup. For all that Crystal's "Just Jellus!" line is classic middle school Mean Girl, Sutton's told  Crystal her clothes were ugly, said she was probably playing with herself alone in her room and said Crystal has no friends. Just as classic. So if Crystal must be cast as the Head Bitch Mean Girl, Sutton would be the Mean Girl sidekick who's sometimes nice when the Alphas isn't around.

48 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

This is EXACTLY why I've got Crystals number. She's not trying to resolve any of it. I feel like Crystal's feeling "violated" is more contrived than anything and seeing just how much of a stir its making for the whole group is giving her some gross satisfaction.The original sentiment behind the awkward encounter was genuinely uncomfortable for both Sutton and Crystal. I won't suggest otherwise but as it has progressed Crystal has turned it into some blanket of protection that now absolves her of her deliberate misrepresentation of what actually transpired. 

But it's already been resolved. The only way Crystal's not trying to resolve it is by refusing to back off saying she felt violated in terms of her privacy and not sexually when Sutton demands it publicly. It's Sutton who's making it a stir for the whole group and loudly unresolving it AGAIN! 

Crystal is not misrepresenting anything now. She's agreed to Crystal's version of events where it was just an accidental, innocent, well-intentioned opening of the door. Sutton won the battle of interpretations. And now she's saying Crystal is defensive because she really was up to something weird in the room when Sutton opened the door--which is exactly what Crystal originally accused her of!

Quote

I think if anyone is weaponizing emotions is Crystal with her trumped up account of what truly happened in her room and Suttons behavior. Sutton is just being herself.

Why can't Crystal have been being herself also when she was upset right after the incident? 

Edited July 8, 2021 by sistermagpie

[Yours Truly]

36 minutes ago, byrd said:

I really think it was jealousy about Crystal being included with the gift.  That's when Sutton became Nuts at the table.  Lol !!!  

Yep , VILE KYLE ! 

I do think she felt a certain kind of way as well and it didn't help her already struggling demeanor. Thing is she was sitting there just working through it quietly. What the fuck else do they want from her? The only person that noticed was Kyle. Just leave it alone but of course Kyle's not gonna so there's that. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Heh, heh. Love you, poster of

Baby prostitute voice.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

11 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

That's hard to do when KYLE keeps bringing it up. Kyle's the one that brought it up AGAIN last episode at the table. Not to mention Kathy's little quip that had both Kyle and Kathy having one of those "mean girl" laughs at someone else's expense that Kyle is famous for. Mean girls think it's no big deal and can usually incorporate it "innocently" into a group setting for ultimate effect but still with enough lightheartedness (wink) to claim innocent intentions IF called on it. 

Gurl bye!!

I hate the narrative that someone who is emotionally sensitive should ultimately be the bad guy in these situations. It's obvious that Sutton is emotionally fragile. Why is that referenced in such an angered way? She exhausting, she's being irrational, it's draining, it's frustrating.  To expect someone to have a better handle on their emotional distress when it's been expressed the person has had these challenges all their lives seems rather cruel and demanding.  So in order to justify this behavior towards someone not as equipped to be level headed we come up with "weaponizing emotions" and that's really not fair. I think if anyone is weaponizing emotions is Crystal with her trumped up account of what truly happened in her room and Suttons behavior. Sutton is just being herself. Albeit an emotional mess but I mean what can you do about that besides try to maneuver around it as smoothly as possible? What would be the point of taking the opposite route when dealing with her and causing even more distress? The Sick satisfaction of causing Sutton to completely melt down. Do people really deserve that level of cruelty even if they are "exhausting" from time to time. It's just so outrageous to me how easy emotional fragility gets villainize while Crystal's cruel smirks of antagonism is justified all because Sutton is annoying.  That's what it basically boils down to and it's such a common sentiment in society. So sad.  

I like Kyle but she was definitely partly responsible for starting the drama by going up to Sutton. (On the other hand, it's likely Sutton would have found some other way to blame Crystal for the fact that she didn't bring Garcelle a gift so maybe Kyle just jumpstarted the inevitable).

Re the bolded part - Sutton isn't the bad guy because she's "emotional sensitive." She's the bad guy because she quite literally keeps being aggressive towards Crystal, and then when Crystal doesn't give her what she wants, uses tears and her emotions to blame Crystal for Sutton's own bad behavior. She's the bad guy because, in each of these situations, she is quite literally the bad guy - the person who keeps starting trouble but somehow wants to blame the other person for it. 

Crystal wouldn't having any opportunity to "smirk" if Sutton actually STOPPED attacking her.  The idea that Crystal is supposed to treat Sutton with kid gloves despite the fact that every single conflict they've had is because Sutton started it is truly bizarre to me. 

[chlban]

2 hours ago, albarino said:

Wait just a minute there, Crystal's husband did something we've heard of.  Crystal did not.  Therefore, we are jealous of her life.  *Jeesh*. 

Still scratching my head about the "jealous" comment.  Yep, how about you go home and try to parent your child?  So jealous about that one!

I had never heard of her husband either, but since marrying rich seems to be her only accomplishment, I assume she is proud of it. She certainly isn't getting any points for her motherhood skills. Thing is Sutton apparently divorced rich so she doesn't have to try to be nice to a husband, which seems to a challenge for Crystal, and she still has the bucks. 

[Shauna]

16 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Did Kathy fall on her head? LOL Who is hunky dory?

Apparently she fell on her lips.  Did you see the size of those things?  Which sister convinced her it would be a good idea to get injections or whatever the hell these women do to themselves.  Stupid.

[UsernameFatigue]

My problem with Crystal is that she claims to have/have had bulimia which is a mental disorder. She herself had a melt down when she refused to come to dinner at Lake Tahoe. And again when she told the ladies about her disease. None of them made fun of her, called her names, or reacted with bitch-faced smirks. Including Sutton. So STFU Crystal, and maybe clue into the fact that you are no saner, heathier, or better than Sutton. 

I also agree with posters who have said that Crystal has nothing to be jealous of. She is a cold mother, who makes Dorito, with her multiple (not sure about now) nannies, look like Mother of the Year. She married her wealth, and her hubby is someone most have never heard of.  She has zero personality, and as far as I can see no redeeming qualities.  I'd be friends with Sutton in a minute. Crystal? Nope, not unless she is hiding a personality and warmth under those ugly assed pants. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Feech said:

America will breathe easy and sigh in relief when we can all say:

”GOODBYE KYLE!!!!!!!”

[chlban]

29 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

That's hard to do when KYLE keeps bringing it up. Kyle's the one that brought it up AGAIN last episode at the table. Not to mention Kathy's little quip that had both Kyle and Kathy having one of those "mean girl" laughs at someone else's expense that Kyle is famous for. Mean girls think it's no big deal and can usually incorporate it "innocently" into a group setting for ultimate effect but still with enough lightheartedness (wink) to claim innocent intentions IF called on it. 

Gurl bye!!

I hate the narrative that someone who is emotionally sensitive should ultimately be the bad guy in these situations. It's obvious that Sutton is emotionally fragile. Why is that referenced in such an angered way? She exhausting, she's being irrational, it's draining, it's frustrating.  To expect someone to have a better handle on their emotional distress when it's been expressed the person has had these challenges all their lives seems rather cruel and demanding.  So in order to justify this behavior towards someone not as equipped to be level headed we come up with "weaponizing emotions" and that's really not fair. I think if anyone is weaponizing emotions is Crystal with her trumped up account of what truly happened in her room and Suttons behavior. Sutton is just being herself. Albeit an emotional mess but I mean what can you do about that besides try to maneuver around it as smoothly as possible? What would be the point of taking the opposite route when dealing with her and causing even more distress? The Sick satisfaction of causing Sutton to completely melt down. Do people really deserve that level of cruelty even if they are "exhausting" from time to time. It's just so outrageous to me how easy emotional fragility gets villainize while Crystal's cruel smirks of antagonism is justified all because Sutton is annoying.  That's what it basically boils down to and it's such a common sentiment in society. So sad.  

Very well stated. I was not nearly as eloquent, I just know that while Sutton is exhausting I am feeling zero sympathy for Crystal. I was open to her at first, but now I just see her as another mean girl. The last thing this show needs.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I like Kyle but she was definitely partly responsible for starting the drama by going up to Sutton. (On the other hand, it's likely Sutton would have found some other way to blame Crystal for the fact that she didn't bring Garcelle a gift so maybe Kyle just jumpstarted the inevitable).

Re the bolded part - Sutton isn't the bad guy because she's "emotional sensitive." She's the bad guy because she quite literally keeps being aggressive towards Crystal, and then when Crystal doesn't give her what she wants, uses tears and her emotions to blame Crystal for Sutton's own bad behavior. She's the bad guy because, in each of these situations, she is quite literally the bad guy - the person who keeps starting trouble but somehow wants to blame the other person for it. 

Crystal wouldn't having any opportunity to "smirk" if Sutton actually STOPPED attacking her.  The idea that Crystal is supposed to treat Sutton with kid gloves despite the fact that every single conflict they've had is because Sutton started it is truly bizarre to me. 

See, this is how Sutton's part in this gets overblown. Considering that we didn't get a chance to see how Sutton would have left the event if Kyle hadn't brought it up I wouldn't have assumed Sutton would have made a scene. Actually it seems to me Sutton is more anxious when someone puts light on her discomfort knowing full well that she's most likely going to embarrass herself. 

I honestly think Sutton doesn't WANT to be singled out so this theory that Sutton WANTS to emotionally manipulate situations seems misplaced to me. She can't even get through the average group interaction without incident. I highly doubt she wants to initiate an awkward exchange. Hell her inappropriate interruption of Crystal and Kyle's conversation read to me that Sutton is highly anxious of sensitive topics because she knows her awkwardness will get her in trouble. Now THAT she has actually proven. 

But Sutton removed herself from the table because she was becoming increasingly upset and by the time Crystal got to her she had already been peppered by the women (which I am so confused by because just the episode before they understood Suttons upset over the whole ordeal so for them to be so "confused" about why Sutton was still not exactly over it bugged me). By then Sutton was already trying to defend her struggling with her feelings and ended up bringing it back to the source. Which is Crystal. I understood the whole procession and the result. 

 

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

My problem with Crystal is that she claims to have/have had bulimia which is a mental disorder. She herself had a melt down when she refused to come to dinner at Lake Tahoe. And again when she told the ladies about her disease. None of them made fun of her, called her names, or reacted with bitch-faced smirks. Including Sutton. So STFU Crystal, and maybe clue into the fact that you are no saner, heathier, or better than Sutton. 

I also agree with posters who have said that Crystal has nothing to be jealous of. She is a cold mother, who makes Dorito, with her multiple (not sure about now) nannies, look like Mother of the Year. She married her wealth, and her hubby is someone most have never heard of.  She has zero personality, and as far as I can see no redeeming qualities.  I'd be friends with Sutton in a minute. Crystal? Nope, not unless she is hiding a personality and warmth under those ugly assed pants. 

THANK YOU!!!

Edited July 8, 2021 by Yours Truly

[SemiCharmedLife]

8 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

 

I do not celebrate Christmas so I am wondering about decorating the house for the holiday, isn't is supposed to be a personal thing with family heirlooms and such...department store like decor in your house seems so impersonal.  I guess it is the easiest way to get rid of everything when the holiday is over, let some one else clean it all up.

I loved looking at the way the Housewives decorated for the holidays, but was surprised to see that all 3 of Kyle's trees looked very similar.  Maybe one had to get up close to see the differences...

Regarding personal touches, I think the vast majority of the population who decorates for Christmas do use sentimental ornaments and putting the tree up together as a family tradition.  I'm sure Kyle had professionals decorate so the results would be lavish and make a statement about how beautifully her house is decorated. It was for "show."

Edited July 8, 2021 by SemiCharmedLife
typo

[Maximona]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

Neither of those two words are specifically sexual.

From the song Funny Honey in the musical Chicago:

Amos:
A man's got the right to protect his home and his loved ones, right?
Fogarty:
Of course, he has!
Amos:
Well, I come in from the garage, Officer, and I see him coming
through the window. With my wife Roxanne there, sleepin'...
Like an angel...

Roxie: Amos:
He loves me so ...an angel!
That funny honey of mine!

Amos:
I mean supposin', just supposin', he had violated her or somethin'...you
know what I mean...violated?

Fogarty:
I know what you mean...

 

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

My problem with Crystal is that she claims to have/have had bulimia which is a mental disorder. She herself had a melt down when she refused to come to dinner at Lake Tahoe. And again when she told the ladies about her disease. None of them made fun of her, called her names, or reacted with bitch-faced smirks. Including Sutton. So STFU Crystal, and maybe clue into the fact that you are no saner, heathier, or better than Sutton. 

Iirc, Crystal didn't do any of those things when Sutton was talking to her about her father or whatever that conversation was. Crystal only acts that way when she's reacting to something she perceives as an attack by Sutton. It's not really that unusual a way of reacting to that sort of thing. It's just not Sutton's way. Though I'm sure at this point she reacts to Sutton getting emotion negatively immediately.

Sutton told Crystal she was crazy and weird in this ep, so it's not like she always gets that sensitive about those words in every context. In fact, here she is doing exactly what's described--reacting to Crystal saying she felt violated by telling her that's crazy and she must be defensive because she was doing something weird. It's not really a matter of principle for any of them.

Quote

From the song Funny Honey in the musical Chicago:

Yes, the word *can* be sexual. It doesn't have to be. Parking violations aren't sexual.

Edited July 8, 2021 by sistermagpie

[chlban]

2 hours ago, Feech said:

I have come to the conclusion that Garcelle is the best Housewife across all of the franchises. She is smart, elegant, dignified, kind and a very good friend. She can glam it up and still show her home life that is not without problems but still you can feel the love.

They would do well to recast the show around her and get rid of the rest of the cast. Especially the rancid Richards sisters.

You may be right. I really do genuinely like Garcelle. She is smart and appears to be both a good mother and good friend. Most of these women don't even know what friendship means, certainly not this bunch of mean girls. I retain some odd affection for some long timers Like, heaven help me;  Lu and even crazy Ramona, but Garcelle is the only woman in the franchise I would actually want to be friends with IRL. 

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, Maximona said:

From the song Funny Honey in the musical Chicago:

I didn’t suggest it couldn’t be used in that manner but it’s not even in the definition of the word, whereas what happened to Crystal literally is mentioned. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

6 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

See, this is how Sutton's part in this gets overblown. Considering that we didn't get a chance to see how Sutton would have left the event if Kyle hadn't brought it up I wouldn't have assumed Sutton would have made a scene. Actually it seems to me Sutton is more anxious when someone puts light on her discomfort knowing full well that she's most likely going to embarrass herself. 

I honestly think Sutton doesn't WANT to be singled out so this theory that Sutton WANTS to emotionally manipulate situations seems misplaced to me. She can't even get through the average group interaction without incident. I highly doubt she wants to initiate an awkward exchange. Hell her inappropriate interruption of Crystal and Kyle's conversation read to me that Sutton is highly anxious of sensitive topics because she knows her awkwardness will get her in trouble. Not THAT she has actually proven. 

But Sutton removed herself from the table because she was becoming increasingly upset and by the time Crystal got to her she had already been peppered by the women (which I am so confused by because just the episode before they understood Suttons upset over the whole ordeal so for them to be so "confused" about why Sutton was still not exactly over it bugged me). By then Sutton was already trying to defend her struggling with her feelings and ended up bringing it back to the source. Which is Crystal. I understood the whole procession and the result. 

The other women are not responsible for telling Sutton, a fully-grown adult, how to regulate her emotions in public.  Many people here keep giving Crystal a hard time for being "cold," but really, what she has been is calm in the face of Sutton's ever-escalating hysteria.  

First of all, Sutton could have controlled her face when she saw the gift. But fine, let's say that was involuntary. That happens.  But she kept up with the glum looks until Kyle came over. Now, yes, Kyle was poking and prodding.  But Sutton could have just said to Kyle, "truly, I'm fine. Let's focus on Garcelle! What a beautiful ring you guys got her!" But no. It became about "I don't want to be here, I don't like being around people who don't like me." At every stage of this, Sutton could have stopped the escalation but she didn't. Instead, she chose to let her emotions get out of control because, IMO, she felt vulnerable and she was looking for a target. And oh what a surprise, that target was once again Crystal who was literally doing nothing but giving Garcelle a nice gift and minding her own business.

So no, I am not about to cut Sutton some slack for her fragility. She wields it like a weapon when she feels bad, and IMO, neither Crystal nor any of the other women should have to tend to her like she's a precious china doll. She's a grown up; she should act like it. 

[chlban]

3 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Yes ... white woman can cry and its a sign of her being fragile and she should be coddled and taken care of ... if a POC cry's or acts the way sutton does they don't get the same consideration ... IE Crystal is a bitch for not being emotional but Sutton is fine for being unhinged .. it doesn't add up ....

I am not saying it's OK for Sutton to be unhinged, I just also think that Crystal is a total bitch and her jealousy comment cemented that for me. She thinks she is special. Why would Sutton be jealous of her?  Nonsense. Everything isn't about race. I also think Kyle, Rinna, Dorit and Erika are total bitches. Garcelle is strong as hell, not at all afraid to make her points and stand her ground AND she is basically kind and a real friend, therefore not a bitch. Jury us still out for me on Kathy and Sutton, but I lean bitch on both. Nothing to do with race.

Edited July 8, 2021 by chlban

[WhatAmIWatching]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

Because I have a very inappropriate sense of humor, in Sutton's place I'd use humor to shut this bullshit down.  

I'd present the women with goodie bags and use this bag to do so, laughing every step of the way. 

  

 

 

Hahaha! That's too funny! I would absolutely do the same.

I agree with those saying that Sutton was not only embarrassed that she didn't bring a gift, but also hurt and jealous that Kyle/Kathy didn't choose to include her with theirs, that they chose Crystal instead, and then add Kathy calling her Thomasina once again, fueled the anger. Kyle and Kathy, and herself, were who she was mad at, she misplaced all of it onto Crystal. A lot of emotions and forgotten manners on Bolognese Night!

I'm awful and did giggle a bit when Sutton tried to storm out but kept stopping to vent more. Sutton, Rinna's yard isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure! Dramatic much?

..then at the end there, when Crystal was walking toward them, then stopped and smiled at the camera? It looked like maybe production told her to stop there or something, or am I imagining things? (Lisa seemed to get caught looking at the camera a lot this episode too.) 
 

Cheers for Garcelle who tried to untangle the Gordian knot of pettiness! I loved her no-nonsense approach.

 

[WaltersHair]

56 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

The only person that noticed was Kyle. Just leave it alone but of course Kyle's not gonna so there's that. 

I'd bet it was a producer who noticed and elbowed Kyle to go find out. Eileen did the same exact thing at a painting party maybe 5 seasons ago. It's a go-to tactic to create drama and if I can see it the wives should too.

[chewycandy]

I didn’t mind Sutton’s dress, there was a tiger on it, right? I love her love of cats. I also liked Erika’s outfit at her shack, they looked like very fancy pajamas. 

[RealHousewife]

I do think Sutton's style ages her. She's only 49, but she dresses like a rich little old lady. Normally I see her kind of fashion more on women around 70+.

[gingerella]

4 minutes ago, chlban said:

3 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Yes ... white woman can cry and its a sign of her being fragile and she should be coddled and taken care of ... if a POC cry's or acts the way sutton does they don't get the same consideration ... IE Crystal is a bitch for not being emotional but Sutton is fine for being unhinged .. it doesn't add up ....

I am not saying it's OK for Sutton to be unhinged, I just also think that Crystal is a total bitch and her jealousy comment cemented that for me. She thinks she is special. Why would Sutton be jealous of her?  Nonsense. Everything isn't about race. I also think Kyle, Rinna, Dorit and Erika are total bitches. Garcelle is strong as hell, not at all afraid to make her points and stand her ground AND she is basically kind and a real friend, therefore not a bitch. Jury us still out for me on Kathy and Sutton, but I lean bitch on both. Nothing to do with race.

Hmmm, let's see...Crystal, despite being saddled with a classic stripper name, has a husband who seems to love and adore her; a home that far exceeds anything that Sutton could afford; has a plethora of materials goods far exceeding Sutton's self-perceived war chest of couture. These are the things that matter to someone like Sutton so, yanno...seems fairly obvious to this viewer.

As for the above bolded part in the first quote, that is a fact, not something some here are perceiving. To not see it is one of the root issues of unconscious bias, for which I shall include a definition, which to me, seems to be exactly what is going on vis a vis Crystal's perceived 'over-reacting' vs. Sutton's white fragility melt-down and subsequent nasty fighting back about being a victim in this situation:

Quote

"Unconscious bias (or implicit bias) is often defined as prejudice or unsupported judgments in favor of [Sutton] or against one thing, person [Crystal], or group as compared to another, in a way that is usually considered unfair. ... As a result of unconscious biases, certain people benefit [Sutton] and other people are penalized [Crystal]."

NB: I added the names to the definition

So let's put the situation thusly:

Crystal (a person of color) is defined as a hysterical over-reactor to being walked in on naked on a reality TV show, garnering snarky, negative comments from the perpetrator. Meanwhile, Sutton (a white woman) who walked in on her, claims to be a victim because Crystal is upset at her actions, and is viewed as a victim who has been wronged because she doesn't like Crystal's feelings about the situation, and the women rally around who? The white woman who is crying victim - while they all coo over her, leaving Crystal to bear the mantle of 'over reactor'. I don't see anything confusing about this situation.

[Natalie68]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I agree about her infuriating face (though, to be fair, I don't really know much about her "baseline" face). But when she smiles, she really is very pretty. 

As someone who has been told they have resting bitch face I find these comments interesting!  Sometimes you just can't help how your face looks!  I never knew it could infuriate people.  HA!  No snark.  If Crystal's goto is a slight smile, that could be a coping mechanism. And seriously, I am not sure what is an appropriate face when someone is losing their shit for no good reason.  

[Feech]

I think Garcelle’s interaction with her sons was one of the best I have ever seen on the Housewives. The warmth and affection and the loving exasperation was amazing.

I also look forward to Erika Jayne’s interaction with her son when he walks her out of her house in handcuffs.

[Mr. Miner]

Message to Bravo

 

[TattleTeeny]

9 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

As someone who has been told they have resting bitch face I find these comments interesting!  Sometimes you just can't help how your face looks!  I never knew it could infuriate people.  HA!  No snark.  If Crystal's goto is a slight smile, that could be a coping mechanism. And seriously, I am not sure what is an appropriate face when someone is losing their shit for no good reason.  

Oh, I have one too. But hers looks to me (and again, what do I really know?) like she's digging it, which seems a bit unfair to someone she seems to believe has a...disorder of some kind (and maybe she does?). Or, these scenes are so producer contrived that maybe she -- Crystal -- has a hard time not laughing? (I have that too, haha!)

[WhatAmIWatching]

2 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Oh, I have one too. But hers looks to me (and again, what do I really know?) like she's digging it, which seems a bit unfair to someone she seems to believe has a...disorder of some kind (and maybe she does?). Or, these scenes are so producer contrived that maybe she -- Crystal -- has a hard time not laughing? (I have that too, haha!)

RBF club! I've liked wearing masks solely because people have stopped telling me to smile all the time. I'm trying to remember what I came to the store for, leave me be!

For what it's worth, I don't see a smirk, I see a mild grimace, or one of those uncomfortable slight smiles when you're not sure what's really going on, and aren't sure how to react to whatever it is, but are trying to stay polite.

[Maximona]

5 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

these scenes are so producer contrived

Bingo!

Sutton has a boutique to promote, and I'm sure that's why she's on this show.

I don't know what Crystal has to promote,  but I'm sure I'll find out!  😊

Who knows what any of these women feels about anything that "happens" on this show.

[For Cereals]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I think what Crystal enjoys is just not giving in to Sutton once she's started. No, you're not getting the new doll you want no matter how much you cry.

This!  I don’t see smug, mean girl.  I see “you look silly, do you need a nap?”  Like a mom would a toddler throwing a tantrum which is what Sutton did.

[Natalie68]

5 minutes ago, For Cereals said:

This!  I don’t see smug, mean girl.  I see “you look silly, do you need a nap?”  Like a mom would a toddler throwing a tantrum which is what Sutton did.

I am curious what the appropriate expression would be in this situation?  What should Crystal done instead of looking how she did?  I am seriously asking.  

[Cosmocrush]

5 hours ago, chlban said:

I admit to a fondness for Harry Hamlin although I have no idea why.

My fondness for Harry goes way back to LA Law in the late 80s.  He was also People magazine's Sexiest Man Alive back when that was a big thing.   So, you're not alone @chlban.  😉

[Marley GMA]

19 hours ago, Julyolo said:

Rinna's kitchen is badly in need of an update. 1980's much?

I am shocked at her whole house.  Looks like a dump, old and outdated.  

[byrd]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

My problem with Crystal is that she claims to have/have had bulimia which is a mental disorder. She herself had a melt down when she refused to come to dinner at Lake Tahoe. And again when she told the ladies about her disease. None of them made fun of her, called her names, or reacted with bitch-faced smirks. Including Sutton. So STFU Crystal, and maybe clue into the fact that you are no saner, heathier, or better than Sutton. 

I also agree with posters who have said that Crystal has nothing to be jealous of. She is a cold mother, who makes Dorito, with her multiple (not sure about now) nannies, look like Mother of the Year. She married her wealth, and her hubby is someone most have never heard of.  She has zero personality, and as far as I can see no redeeming qualities.  I'd be friends with Sutton in a minute. Crystal? Nope, not unless she is hiding a personality and warmth under those ugly assed pants. 

Me thinks maybe Sutton interrupted something with Crystal,, maybe this is why she's angry that Sutton entered her room.  Someone already mentioned this in the thread. I could not help but wonder why this was such a big deal for her.  

[byrd]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Hmmm, let's see...Crystal, despite being saddled with a classic stripper name, has a husband who seems to love and adore her; a home that far exceeds anything that Sutton could afford; has a plethora of materials goods far exceeding Sutton's self-perceived war chest of couture. These are the things that matter to someone like Sutton so, yanno...seems fairly obvious to this viewer.

As for the above bolded part in the first quote, that is a fact, not something some here are perceiving. To not see it is one of the root issues of unconscious bias, for which I shall include a definition, which to me, seems to be exactly what is going on vis a vis Crystal's perceived 'over-reacting' vs. Sutton's white fragility melt-down and subsequent nasty fighting back about being a victim in this situation:

So let's put the situation thusly:

Crystal (a person of color) is defined as a hysterical over-reactor to being walked in on naked on a reality TV show, garnering snarky, negative comments from the perpetrator. Meanwhile, Sutton (a white woman) who walked in on her, claims to be a victim because Crystal is upset at her actions, and is viewed as a victim who has been wronged because she doesn't like Crystal's feelings about the situation, and the women rally around who? The white woman who is crying victim - while they all coo over her, leaving Crystal to bear the mantle of 'over reactor'. I don't see anything confusing about this situation.

Kinda seems to me that they are over Sutton's whining ..

[Persnickety1]

I need to rewatch this episode and focus on something besides the food and pasta bowls.

I do remember seeing place cards at the table that apparently Harry himself had made.

I'd bet some hard-earned cash that Rinna (despite what Harry said about her having done nothing to help prepare) at least told Harry where to seat the ladies to make sure the Sutton/Crystal fuckery would yet again erupt.  

Rinna, always stirring the cauldron of shit, even in the most subtle of ways.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

The other women are not responsible for telling Sutton, a fully-grown adult, how to regulate her emotions in public.  Many people here keep giving Crystal a hard time for being "cold," but really, what she has been is calm in the face of Sutton's ever-escalating hysteria.  

First of all, Sutton could have controlled her face when she saw the gift. But fine, let's say that was involuntary. That happens.  But she kept up with the glum looks until Kyle came over. Now, yes, Kyle was poking and prodding.  But Sutton could have just said to Kyle, "truly, I'm fine. Let's focus on Garcelle! What a beautiful ring you guys got her!" But no. It became about "I don't want to be here, I don't like being around people who don't like me." At every stage of this, Sutton could have stopped the escalation but she didn't. Instead, she chose to let her emotions get out of control because, IMO, she felt vulnerable and she was looking for a target. And oh what a surprise, that target was once again Crystal who was literally doing nothing but giving Garcelle a nice gift and minding her own business.

So no, I am not about to cut Sutton some slack for her fragility. She wields it like a weapon when she feels bad, and IMO, neither Crystal nor any of the other women should have to tend to her like she's a precious china doll. She's a grown up; she should act like it. 

My thing about Crystal is that she's being a straight bitch. Her straight faced tactics and smirks aren't something I applaud.

Here we go with the it's no ones responsibility to worry about another grown adult in distress. I mean sure we don't HAVE TO be nice to people but......

I just don't understand what's so hard about assessing a situation and not aggravating it more? If one is going to participate and contribute to an interaction that's getting out of control why would someone opt to go in the negative direction instead of what would maybe, possibly correct the issue? Oh that's right, cause its more fun and dramatic to roll eyes, point fingers and exude disapproval. I really don't understand how that's a more acceptable approach than just being nice. Not just, not mean, but ya know nice. It amazes me how extremely burdensome "being nice" seems to be. It's such an offensive idea and for the life of me I can never wrap my head around it. If I see a situation where coddling someone will keep a situation from exploding than, I mean it ain't no skin off my nose to comfort someone. EVEN IF I think they are being silly or gasp irrational. At the very least I'm going to act in my own best interest and I sure as hell know I do not feel comfortable in uncomfortable situations so I'd rather just tie it up in a nice bow if possible and keep it moving. I don't think Sutton means for these blows ups to get that bad but because of the awful way the women as a whole approach her and her distress Sutton just can't map out the right way out of those group conversations.

They were ALL coming at her, all be it mostly inquisitive but still it doesn't take a rocket science to know that that's overwhelming even to the average person so I COMPLETELY understand why Sutton ended up losing her cool. PLUS, as I'm mentioned before Sutton DID try to keep it to herself and manage her own mood before Kyle came over and ultimately pulled it out of her so. I dunno, I think she was handling it just fine, or at least good enough to be unnoticed by all the other women. That's worth noting.

She confided in her friend once Kyle wouldn't let it go. She didn't yell it across the table and no I don't think she needs to go as far as being perfectly happy with a fake smile slapped across her face.  Kyle kept prodding and Sutton was being honest. Why should she lie? Look, my thing is she was sitting there getting through it. Good for her. Kyle could have just let it be but again ratings. Sutton also left the table and again good on her. I don't see it as theatrics because she did it rather seamlessly and again the others didn't notice til voices were raised over by the bar. I saw Sutton more than once try to change the subject and move on to something else and she wasn't allowed to. She was all I'll make margaritas, when she saw the other women coming their way as a way to keep from them joining the topic Sutton was trying to shut down upon their approach. The other woman with their Ohhhhh Sutton, what's the matter, nooo, nooo, tell us, what's wrooooonnnngggg? I mean they were a bit much too actually. Laying it on thick. Changing the subject for someone like Sutton when she gives opening to change the subject is the perfect way to move on from a topic to keep it from getting to the place that shit show went to. No one took the hint cause, one more time, RATINGS. 

[RealHousewife]

14 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I am curious what the appropriate expression would be in this situation?  What should Crystal done instead of looking how she did?  I am seriously asking.  

Honestly, I don't know! lol In this episode, the only smirky looks I noticed were when Crystal responded "not yours" to Sutton asking what planet she was from (or something like that) and then she had the same expression after her pants were called ugly. Maybe Crystal just doesn't know how to respond to Sutton? I like Sutton, but I'd find her difficult to deal with too. It's possible Crystal has this nervous smile thing going on. Or ya'll think it's more "hehe, this lady is bananas!" Maybe she genuinely found the ugly leather pants insult hilarious? It was mean, but it made the preview for a reason. It's a great shady line. 

All this talk of self-satisfied smirks, calling others jealous, and Crystal shrugging and trying to keep her cool, perhaps she's trying to channel the legendary season 1 Camille! 

Has there been another housewife so fun to hate since? I think not! 

[byrd]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

That's hard to do when KYLE keeps bringing it up. Kyle's the one that brought it up AGAIN last episode at the table. Not to mention Kathy's little quip that had both Kyle and Kathy having one of those "mean girl" laughs at someone else's expense that Kyle is famous for. Mean girls think it's no big deal and can usually incorporate it "innocently" into a group setting for ultimate effect but still with enough lightheartedness (wink) to claim innocent intentions IF called on it. 

Gurl bye!!

I hate the narrative that someone who is emotionally sensitive should ultimately be the bad guy in these situations. It's obvious that Sutton is emotionally fragile. Why is that referenced in such an angered way? She exhausting, she's being irrational, it's draining, it's frustrating.  To expect someone to have a better handle on their emotional distress when it's been expressed the person has had these challenges all their lives seems rather cruel and demanding.  So in order to justify this behavior towards someone not as equipped to be level headed we come up with "weaponizing emotions" and that's really not fair. I think if anyone is weaponizing emotions is Crystal with her trumped up account of what truly happened in her room and Suttons behavior. Sutton is just being herself. Albeit an emotional mess but I mean what can you do about that besides try to maneuver around it as smoothly as possible? What would be the point of taking the opposite route when dealing with her and causing even more distress? The Sick satisfaction of causing Sutton to completely melt down. Do people really deserve that level of cruelty even if they are "exhausting" from time to time. It's just so outrageous to me how easy emotional fragility gets villainize while Crystal's cruel smirks of antagonism is justified all because Sutton is annoying.  That's what it basically boils down to and it's such a common sentiment in society. So sad.  

Yes I agree, it can be cruel, which is exactly why I wish she had more backbone in this situation . Shut down Cathy and Kyle, shut THEM ALL DOWN ..Simply tell them no discussion or comments are needed on this subject . They can't force her to speak on it if she would toughen up a  little. Listen,  I have seen Sutton shut Dorit down and others on this show, that's why I keep saying , toughen up and don't let them steer you where you have no desire to go .  In my opinion there is something else going on beneath all of this drama she can't be that sensitive about Crystal.

[Yours Truly]

39 minutes ago, For Cereals said:

This!  I don’t see smug, mean girl.  I see “you look silly, do you need a nap?”  Like a mom would a toddler throwing a tantrum which is what Sutton did.

That's not mean? Interesting.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I just don't understand what's so hard about assessing a situation and not aggravating it more? If one is going to participate and contribute to an interaction that's getting out of control why would someone opt to go in the negative direction instead of what would maybe, possibly correct the issue? Oh that's right, cause its more fun and dramatic to roll eyes, point fingers and exude disapproval.

Or because the person isn't just spinning out of control in an abstract way at all, they're yelling at you again and demanding you give them what the want. I mean, it's not like Sutton just broke down in tears because she forgot to bring a gift and Crystal came over and started telling her about the gift she gave to make her feel worse. She came over to where everyone was standing and got to listen to Sutton again tell her she (Crystal) was crazy and wrong for using the word violated to describe her own (Crystal's) feelings and refused to change the word or agree that she was being crazy. Sutton went negative.

[Boo Boo]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Neither of those two words are specifically sexual. I mean what happened is a pretty textbook definition of violating someone’s privacy/space. 

But the cast thought she was inferring something sexually perverse.  And that's what Sutton is reacting to.  The juxtaposition of those words suggest something worse than walking in on someone.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Boo Boo

[chlban]

27 minutes ago, byrd said:

Kinda seems to me that they are over Sutton's whining ..

Yeah, I am thinking Sutton will end up this season's victim, although I am holding out hope it's Erika. BTW, with all this focus on Sutton and Crystal , did anyone else do a little happy dance when they got Erika to list all of her vast sources of income? That clip should come in handy now that a judge has ruled the victims can go after Erika for their stolen money.

20 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Honestly, I don't know! lol In this episode, the only smirky looks I noticed were when Crystal responded "not yours" to Sutton asking what planet she was from (or something like that) and then she had the same expression after her pants were called ugly. Maybe Crystal just doesn't know how to respond to Sutton? I like Sutton, but I'd find her difficult to deal with too. It's possible Crystal has this nervous smile thing going on. Or ya'll think it's more "hehe, this lady is bananas!" Maybe she genuinely found the ugly leather pants insult hilarious? It was mean, but it made the preview for a reason. It's a great shady line. 

All this talk of self-satisfied smirks, calling others jealous, and Crystal shrugging and trying to keep her cool, perhaps she's trying to channel the legendary season 1 Camille! 

Has there been another housewife so fun to hate since? I think not! 

True enough, but there is a distinct difference between those you love to hate-Camille, Taylor- and those you actually hate-Brandy and Leah from NY. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by chlban

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, Boo Boo said:

But the cast thought she was inferring something sexually perverse.  And that's what Sutton is reacting to.  

 

The cast are idiots that isn’t Crystal’s fault. Crystal has specifically stated that she doesn’t think it was anything untoward and that it was innocent on Sutton’s part but this is not good enough for Sutton and that is ridiculous.  

[Boo Boo]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

The cast are idiots that isn’t Crystal’s fault. Crystal has specifically stated that she doesn’t think it was anything untoward and that it was innocent on Sutton’s part but this is not good enough for Sutton and that is ridiculous.  

Just saying when other people's perceptions all run together, it's likely the way Crystal originally described what happened to them.

If someone told me they got walked in on accidentally while naked and felt violated, I would think that they were embarrassed.

If someone said the person who walked in on them naked was creepy, I would think it's no accident that she walked in on them naked or they lingered way too long in a creepy way.

As you noted, she already clarified it and Sutton should move on.  Sutton is an irritant and she's clearly got issues.  But I still don't like Crystal either and her "you're just jealous" bullshit.

[Yours Truly]

9 minutes ago, byrd said:

Yes I agree, it can be cruel, which is exactly why I wish she had more backbone in this situation . Shut down Cathy and Kyle, shut THEM ALL DOWN ..Simply tell them no discussion or comments are needed on this subject . They can't force her to speak on it if she would toughen up a  little. Listen,  I have seen Sutton shut Dorit down and others on this show, that's why I keep saying , toughen up and don't let them steer you where you have no desire to go .  In my opinion there is something else going on beneath all of this drama she can't be that sensitive about Crystal.

She's tried to assert herself a number of times on this topic and yet it keeps popping up in little quips (usually by a Richards.. hhmmmmmm). She's usually the butt of it and as exhausting as it is to Crystal I'm sure it's doubling exhausting to Sutton because it all ended with Sutton either being the butt of a joke (Tomasina) or someone with predatory tendencies. At best she may here it come up from time to time as "harmless" jokes. You know the one's that sooooo lighthearted that she won't be allowed to be upset even though she will be and then BAM! Another example of how Sutton is weird and overreacts. I just don't understand why it's so wrong for people to just be mindful. To put the onus on the party that is the least capable of what is being asked of them instead of calling on those that are obviously more equipped is what's backwards to me in all of this.   To me, Sutton can't handle certain things well so if I were in that group I'd make it a point to shift topics away from what may set her off. Not begrudgingly or resentful, just matter of factly. It truly doesn't boil my blood to be helpful in that way. Makes me so sad to see Sutton stumble through all that nonsense. Whether she "brings it upon herself" or not. I think it's pretty evident that she's a person who struggles and that's enough for me to keep my anger in check and lead with compassion instead. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

THESE WOMEN TREAT SUTTON LIKE A NEWBORN BABY it's insane to me.  A newborn baby would need less care.

19 hours ago, Julyolo said:

Crystal's birthday present for Garcelle seems a bit over-the-top considering how long they've known each other. I'm a bit suspect of people that over gift.

LOL.  Even giving a wonderful gift at someone's birthday is wrong somehow.  Wasn't it something that Crystal already owned?  How could that be over the top?

How does someone not know to bring a gift to a birthday party? I think that Sutton is insane.

The only person NEEDLING Sutton about being a Peeping Tom is Kathy, yet every time Kathy uses that phrase, Sutton goes off on Crystal.  The behaviour is out of this world.  

Edited July 8, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[eleanorofaquitaine]

19 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

My thing about Crystal is that she's being a straight bitch. Her straight faced tactics and smirks aren't something I applaud.

Here we go with the it's no ones responsibility to worry about another grown adult in distress. I mean sure we don't HAVE TO be nice to people but......

I just don't understand what's so hard about assessing a situation and not aggravating it more? If one is going to participate and contribute to an interaction that's getting out of control why would someone opt to go in the negative direction instead of what would maybe, possibly correct the issue? Oh that's right, cause its more fun and dramatic to roll eyes, point fingers and exude disapproval. I really don't understand how that's a more acceptable approach than just being nice. Not just, not mean, but ya know nice. It amazes me how extremely burdensome "being nice" seems to be. It's such an offensive idea and for the life of me I can never wrap my head around it. If I see a situation where coddling someone will keep a situation from exploding than, I mean it ain't no skin off my nose to comfort someone. EVEN IF I think they are being silly or gasp irrational. At the very least I'm going to act in my own best interest and I sure as hell know I do not feel comfortable in uncomfortable situations so I'd rather just tie it up in a nice bow if possible and keep it moving. I don't think Sutton means for these blows ups to get that bad but because of the awful way the women as a whole approach her and her distress Sutton just can't map out the right way out of those group conversations.

They were ALL coming at her, all be it mostly inquisitive but still it doesn't take a rocket science to know that that's overwhelming even to the average person so I COMPLETELY understand why Sutton ended up losing her cool. PLUS, as I'm mentioned before Sutton DID try to keep it to herself and manage her own mood before Kyle came over and ultimately pulled it out of her so. I dunno, I think she was handling it just fine, or at least good enough to be unnoticed by all the other women. That's worth noting.

She confided in her friend once Kyle wouldn't let it go. She didn't yell it across the table and no I don't think she needs to go as far as being perfectly happy with a fake smile slapped across her face.  Kyle kept prodding and Sutton was being honest. Why should she lie? Look, my thing is she was sitting there getting through it. Good for her. Kyle could have just let it be but again ratings. Sutton also left the table and again good on her. I don't see it as theatrics because she did it rather seamlessly and again the others didn't notice til voices were raised over by the bar. I saw Sutton more than once try to change the subject and move on to something else and she wasn't allowed to. She was all I'll make margaritas, when she saw the other women coming their way as a way to keep from them joining the topic Sutton was trying to shut down upon their approach. The other woman with their Ohhhhh Sutton, what's the matter, nooo, nooo, tell us, what's wrooooonnnngggg? I mean they were a bit much too actually. Laying it on thick. Changing the subject for someone like Sutton when she gives opening to change the subject is the perfect way to move on from a topic to keep it from getting to the place that shit show went to. No one took the hint cause, one more time, RATINGS. 

Crystal has tried on three separate occasions to be "nice" to Sutton and each time, has gotten metaphorically kicked in the head for it.

1. She tries to be "nice" to Sutton by letting her in on the joke at the restaurant. What she gets in return is Sutton claiming that Crystal kicked her - and spiraling out of control. 

2. She tries to be "nice" to Sutton by having a conversation on the boat where she says she's ready to move forward. What she gets in return is Sutton saying that she wants an apology for no discernable reason.

3. She tries to be "nice" to Sutton by admitting that she talked about the situation with the women and saying, okay, we're going to go out there and quash it once and for all. What she gets in return is Sutton once again demanding an apology and insisting she has no right to feel the way she felt.

She's under no obligation to be "nice" to a person who keeps trying to use Crystal as a punching bag every time she feels vulnerable. 

The onus is NOT on Crystal to play nice with Sutton because Sutton can't apparently control her emotions. The onus is on Sutton to learn how to play well with others. I honestly think that blaming Crystal for Sutton's reaction at the bolognese party is really blaming the victim. 

I do think Kyle was prodding for plot line purposes and so yeah, I can say that she shouldn't have done that. But even Kyle is not responsible for Sutton's emotions, either. If Sutton is too high strung for the show, then maybe she should reconsider being on the show. 

[Yours Truly]

20 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Or because the person isn't just spinning out of control in an abstract way at all, they're yelling at you again and demanding you give them what the want. I mean, it's not like Sutton just broke down in tears because she forgot to bring a gift and Crystal came over and started telling her about the gift she gave to make her feel worse. She came over to where everyone was standing and got to listen to Sutton again tell her she (Crystal) was crazy and wrong for using the word violated to describe her own (Crystal's) feelings and refused to change the word or agree that she was being crazy. Sutton went negative.

Sutton was already in the middle of her episode so I don't fault her for being emotional by the time Crystal joined the group. Sutton was addressing something she was still struggling with cause the other woman just HAD TO know what was the problem even though Sutton tried multiple times to change the subject with Kyle and the woman once they approached. I think it was mishandled and I still think Sutton has good reason to be sensitive about it especially if she's not allowed to shut down the conversation. More than once Sutton tried to just leave it alone but the other women weren't having it. I think it's okay for her to still feel upset about what happened and I also think it's ok for her to not be 100% smiles and I don't think she inserted a negative vibe with her less than joyful expression because no one even noticed it besides Kyle.  So there's also that. 

6 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Crystal has tried on three separate occasions to be "nice" to Sutton and each time, has gotten metaphorically kicked in the head for it.

1. She tries to be "nice" to Sutton by letting her in on the joke at the restaurant. What she gets in return is Sutton claiming that Crystal kicked her - and spiraling out of control. 

2. She tries to be "nice" to Sutton by having a conversation on the boat where she says she's ready to move forward. What she gets in return is Sutton saying that she wants an apology for no discernable reason.

3. She tries to be "nice" to Sutton by admitting that she talked about the situation with the women and saying, okay, we're going to go out there and quash it once and for all. What she gets in return is Sutton once again demanding an apology and insisting she has no right to feel the way she felt.

She's under no obligation to be "nice" to a person who keeps trying to use Crystal as a punching bag every time she feels vulnerable. 

The onus is NOT on Crystal to play nice with Sutton because Sutton can't apparently control her emotions. The onus is on Sutton to learn how to play well with others. I honestly think that blaming Crystal for Sutton's reaction at the bolognese party is really blaming the victim. 

I do think Kyle was prodding for plot line purposes and so yeah, I can say that she shouldn't have done that. But even Kyle is not responsible for Sutton's emotions, either. If Sutton is too high strung for the show, then maybe she should reconsider being on the show. 

Yeah, I disagree. 

[UsernameFatigue]

47 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

My fondness for Harry goes way back to LA Law in the late 80s.  He was also People magazine's Sexiest Man Alive back when that was a big thing.   So, you're not alone @chlban.  😉

I also loved Harry in Mad Men. What I like most about him though is that he doesn't take himself too seriously, or actually seriously at all. The apron he was wearing was a hoot.