S05.E16: The Adirondacks

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, circumvent said:

I liked most of the episode. Nothing really stuck out for me, they went for the cliche of one partner realizing, last minute, that getting married is not the thing they want, but it wasn't as saccharine as most shows do. 

Given how this show seems to love to go for maximum melodrama, I was surprised they didn’t do the cliche of Madison pulling Kevin aside for the “talk” just as the vows were supposed to start, followed by her running away in tears. Glad they didn’t do that.

[Empress1]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

We already know that his baby's mother is living in Boston

I'd forgotten. Thanks.

[Ohiopirate02]

19 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Question is, did Jack see he wasn’t supposed to tape over it and did anyway or did he just not bother to look?  His refusing to apologize and insulting her show was an asshole move regardless. 

Not victim blaming, but Rebecca’s a novice at this VHS thing. My husband (not a Jack-style asshole) still could not be trusted not to grab the nearest tape and shove it in the VCR without noticing the “do not tape over” label and I didn’t like to knock out the tabs unless I knew I’d want to keep something forever. So I’d hide my tapes. Every once in a while I still find a VHS tape buried in the back of a closet or a drawer I haven’t cleaned out for years. 

Rebecca did write on the tape do not use.  Also that Dynasty episode was aired in May, and May baseball games are not must watch.  The Pirates winning or losing that one particular game that Jack could not stay awake for would have little to no impact on their overall record.  I just looked it up and the Pirates finished that season in last place with a 57-104 record.  Jack literally missed nothing and probably would never have gone back to finish watching the game.  But to him, that baseball game was more important than taking the 2 seconds to look at the VHS tape before using it.  

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Rebecca did write on the tape do not use.  Also that Dynasty episode was aired in May, and May baseball games are not must watch.  The Pirates winning or losing that one particular game that Jack could not stay awake for would have little to no impact on their overall record.  I just looked it up and the Pirates finished that season in last place with a 57-104 record.  Jack literally missed nothing and probably would never have gone back to finish watching the game.  But to him, that baseball game was more important than taking the 2 seconds to look at the VHS tape before using it.  

More proof that Saint Jack was really kind of a lousy husband, no matter what the show wants us to think.

[ShadowFacts]

12 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

We already know that his baby's mother is living in Boston and that she now wants to be involved with their daughter.  I presume that one of the reasons he applied to Harvard is so that he and their daughter can be closer to her mother and that she and/or her family will help with childcare.  Even though Malik's parents currently have custody, I expect that, now that he is 18, he can ask for custody and it will very likely be granted to him.

I think that whole situation will come front and center in the final season.  We've had multiple maternal abandonments throughout the series, now again with Madison (in a most horrible way), so I think they are setting up to address it once again with Malik's daughter. Maybe with a little different outcome, for the good of the child. I hope.

[CarpeFelis]

Slightly OT, but one more thing that’s been bugging me about this show: Rebecca’s aging makeup. Since the makeup artists (or whoever does prosthetic appliances for aging) have given present-day Rebecca well-defined nasolabial folds, I think we are to assume she’s never had plastic surgery. She’s supposed to be in her early 70s. For a woman over 70, her jawline looks way too good. It’s a tiny bit saggy, but would belong on someone about 10-15 years younger.

[Sake614]

Can someone please slap the snot out of Tess? ‘This dress isn’t me.’ Seriously? As others have already said, it isn’t ABOUT you. You’re a bridesmaid in someone else’s wedding. You don’t have to like the damn dress, you just have to wear it for a few hours. Then you can burn it if you want. But for Beth to say ‘okay we’ll just make it you” did nothing but encourage future bratty behavior. Stop bowing down to her because she’s gay and you want to be the cool mom who accepts her without hesitation. Find another way to show your acceptance. Being gay is not an excuse for being disrespectful.

Randall can suck it with the whole ‘my mother was a force of nature’ crap. He never met his mother. She was a drug addict who walked away and never looked back. Never told William she was alive, never looked for her son. And he never met her. He HEARD she was a force of nature. He HEARD lots of things about her. And now she’s a saint. Stuff it Randy P. 🤬 

re the flash forward, I like the idea that Kate and Toby are renewing their vows a lot better than her marrying the Brit. 

[CarpeFelis]

15 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

More proof that Saint Jack was really kind of a lousy husband, no matter what the show wants us to think.

And not exactly the greatest dad who ever lived, either. He played favorites just as much as Rebecca did.

[ams1001]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

In the dark days of VHS tapes, I carefully recorded an entire library of good shows I was saving for my old age.  Only to have my last two VCR recorders die while tearing up tapes and now it's nearly impossible to find players at all.  So I threw them all out.  Same with wall to wall book cases of favorite books that I can no longer read because they aren't large print. 

I still have my VCR in the closet. No idea if it still works. Now I'm running into DVDs that won't play on my combo DVD/BluRay player. I borrowed a bunch of movies from a friend a couple years ago and couldn't watch some of them.

27 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Every once in a while I still find a VHS tape buried in the back of a closet or a drawer I haven’t cleaned out for years. 

I found a few in the closet when I moved into my condo that the previous owner left behind. I think one of them was the 9/11 tribute special.

6 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Alex isn't Tess's girlfriend since they're non-binary.  And I'm not sure if "partner" is appropriate when they're in middle school, either.    

I referred to Alex as her "they-friend" a while ago. No idea if that's PC but yeah, "partner" sounds weird when you're talking about middle schoolers, but I know "girlfriend" is not right here.

As for the valedictorian thing, what grade are they in? Tess is supposed to be 12 (going by her Halloween 2008 birthday, and assuming the show is real time, which it theoretically is, since they've all been recently vaccinated for covid, she'll turn 13 this fall) which would have her finishing 6th grade this spring (in reality - not that I'm expecting too much from this show there - starting school in New Jersey she would have missed the October 1 cutoff and would be ~two months into her 7th grade year when she turns 13, unless she skipped at some point; my birthday is October 1 so I just barely made the cutoff and turned 12 at the beginning of 7th grade). Though Alex could be a year older and graduating 8th grade; have they specified if they're in the same grade? Do middle schools have valedictorians? I don't remember mine doing that.

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

I still have my VCR in the closet. No idea if it still works. Now I'm running into DVDs that won't play on my combo DVD/BluRay player. I borrowed a bunch of movies from a friend a couple years ago and couldn't watch some of them.

I found a few in the closet when I moved into my condo that the previous owner left behind. I think one of them was the 9/11 tribute special.

I referred to Alex as her "they-friend" a while ago. No idea if that's PC but yeah, "partner" sounds weird when you're talking about middle schoolers, but I know "girlfriend" is not right here.

As for the valedictorian thing, what grade are they in? Tess is supposed to be 12 (going by her Halloween 2008 birthday, and assuming the show is real time, which it theoretically is, since they've all been recently vaccinated for covid, she'll turn 13 this fall) which would have her finishing 6th grade this spring (in reality - not that I'm expecting too much from this show there - starting school in New Jersey she would have missed the October 1 cutoff and would be ~two months into her 7th grade year when she turns 13, unless she skipped at some point; my birthday is October 1 so I just barely made the cutoff and turned 12 at the beginning of 7th grade). Though Alex could be a year older and graduating 8th grade; have they specified if they're in the same grade? Do middle schools have valedictorians? I don't remember mine doing that.

What’s the cutoff in their jurisdiction?  Because Tess could be in seventh.  It’s December 31 where I’m from so that’s the grade she’d be in if she lived in Ontario, Canada.  

[ifionlyknew]

27 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

Randall can suck it with the whole ‘my mother was a force of nature’ crap. He never met his mother. She was a drug addict who walked away and never looked back. Never told William she was alive, never looked for her son. And he never met her. He HEARD she was a force of nature. He HEARD lots of things about her. And now she’s a saint. Stuff it Randy P. 🤬

This.  Randall might make excuses for her never looking for him. but she had resources. She could have found him. And if she found him and saw he was adopted by a family who loved him then she could have walked away. But to never even try does not make her a "force of nature".  

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, PRgal said:

What’s the cutoff in their jurisdiction?  Because Tess could be in seventh.  It’s December 31 where I’m from so that’s the grade she’d be in if she lived in Ontario, Canada.  

According to state law, you have to be 5 by October 1st, but localities can set different dates, apparently, though the state "recommends" they use the 1st. But I did a little more googling; I couldn't find a date for Alpine specifically, but it looks like Bergen County (where Alpine is) also uses October 1. Then I found a list of towns that have later cutoffs, one of which is Tenafly. Alpine public school students go to Tenafly high school, so I suppose it's possible they would use the same date. But that date is October 15th, so she still would have missed it (there are five towns that use the 15th, and two that use the 31st, but those two are in Middlesex county.)

I know, I'm overthinking this. Probably just because I know if I had been born a day later I would have almost certainly been a year behind in school and sometimes I wonder how that would have changed my life.

But this is a world where it takes an hour to drive from practically-NYC-North-Jersey to Philly (despite the fact that it takes an hour and half from my house in central Jersey) so who the heck knows. She can be in any grade they want her to be.

I feel like sometimes they've forgotten how old she's supposed to be, anyway (despite the fact that her birthdate is one of the few that has been explicitly shown...heck, even the TIU Wiki doesn't know Annie's birthday!). I know the actress is older, too, which doesn't help. (I have no idea why you would cast a child three years older (the actress was born in August 2005) than her character if you plan to have that character on the show for several years. She may have looked young enough at the beginning but it's almost guaranteed she'll start looking older at some point. I know Hollywood often casts 20 somethings as teens, but casting a 12yo as a 9yo is even more of a stretch, especially as she gets older. A lot changes in those years.)

[monakane]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:19 PM, stonehaven said:

I can totally see why Kate gets remarried. Toby and Kate never talk about stuff . Toby applying and not telling Kate about the time in SF is NOT something you do if you care about someone.

I can't stand Toby.  I find him to be a smug smart ass.  I'm glad Kate finds someone new.

[cameron]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

That's what my daughter did, except just picked the color, and they all looked great and comfortable. Some chose dresses they already had. To me it's better than a uniform look anyway.

I've always liked the character and actor, but they have been trying to make him into comic relief and that annoys me.

He is a grown man and was old enough to fight in a war.  Expect better behavior from him, don't care if he had shut himself away from humanity for years.  You just don't show up on someone's doorstep unannounced, especially just after they have had babies.  No slack from me.

[PRgal]

13 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

According to state law, you have to be 5 by October 1st, but localities can set different dates, apparently, though the state "recommends" they use the 1st. But I did a little more googling; I couldn't find a date for Alpine specifically, but it looks like Bergen County (where Alpine is) also uses October 1. Then I found a list of towns that have later cutoffs, one of which is Tenafly. Alpine public school students go to Tenafly high school, so I suppose it's possible they would use the same date. But that date is October 15th, so she still would have missed it (there are five towns that use the 15th, and two that use the 31st, but those two are in Middlesex county.)

I know, I'm overthinking this. Probably just because I know if I had been born a day later I would have almost certainly been a year behind in school and sometimes I wonder how that would have changed my life.

But this is a world where it takes an hour to drive from practically-NYC-North-Jersey to Philly (despite the fact that it takes an hour and half from my house in central Jersey) so who the heck knows. She can be in any grade they want her to be.

I feel like sometimes they've forgotten how old she's supposed to be, anyway (despite the fact that her birthdate is one of the few that has been explicitly shown...heck, even the TIU Wiki doesn't know Annie's birthday!). I know the actress is older, too, which doesn't help. (I have no idea why you would cast a child three years older (the actress was born in August 2005) than her character if you plan to have that character on the show for several years. She may have looked young enough at the beginning but it's almost guaranteed she'll start looking older at some point. I know Hollywood often casts 20 somethings as teens, but casting a 12yo as a 9yo is even more of a stretch, especially as she gets older. A lot changes in those years.)

I suppose they might have aged her a couple of years since the actress is older and looks her age.  Maybe that’s how it can work out for Tess to be a full-fledged social worker in 2030/2031, a job that requires a master’s degree.  

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think that whole situation will come front and center in the final season.  We've had multiple maternal abandonments throughout the series, now again with Madison (in a most horrible way), so I think they are setting up to address it once again with Malik's daughter. Maybe with a little different outcome, for the good of the child. I hope.

I guess that would make the most sense, otherwise I'm pretty baffled at the Malik storyline in general. No matter how good a guy he is, no high schooler's parents would be so psyched about a teenager getting so wrapped up with a guy with both a kid and a complicated baby mama situation. IRL, they'd be encouraging him to go far away to school, her to go in another direction and let the long distance do its thing.

I really like Deja as a character and her development has been interesting to watch, but she's too young to be getting into all this heavy stuff, especially since she's only been able to even be a "kid" for a very short time, given all that she went through in her early life. When you're a teenager, every relationship feels like the ONE, but the adults should know better and be encouraging her to be young and do her own thing.

All that being said, why is maternal abandonment such a theme for the show? The deep focus on it feel like even more of a shift into the This is Randall show that it tends to slip into.

Quote

This.  Randall might make excuses for her never looking for him. but she had resources. She could have found him. And if she found him and saw he was adopted by a family who loved him then she could have walked away. But to never even try does not make her a "force of nature".  

Yeah, if she'd turned out to still be alive but was still an addict with no resources or no motivation to find him, that'd be one thing. But she crafted this whole other life and just left him in the past without a word. Did they even clarify that she was aware he'd landed in fortunate circumstances rather than kicking around in the foster system for 18 years? Because that was the more likely scenario, getting adopted by a family who'd lost their triplet on that day was a one in a million scenario.

Quote

Can someone please slap the snot out of Tess? ‘This dress isn’t me.’ Seriously? As others have already said, it isn’t ABOUT you. You’re a bridesmaid in someone else’s wedding. You don’t have to like the damn dress, you just have to wear it for a few hours. Then you can burn it if you want. But for Beth to say ‘okay we’ll just make it you” did nothing but encourage future bratty behavior. Stop bowing down to her because she’s gay and you want to be the cool mom who accepts her without hesitation. Find another way to show your acceptance. Being gay is not an excuse for being disrespectful.

Exactly. And Tess is well aware that Beth is tiptoeing around her for fear of saying the wrong thing or being insensitive to her gender or sexual identity, but that's only going to make her more entitled and self-centered in the end, she knows when to play that card. All kids do it to some extent, like children of divorced parents learn to play certain cards that press the guilt button, but Tess needs to be reined in.

[AriAu]

Quote

We saw them meet, fall in love, weather health crises, have children. It’s going to be emotionally draining to watch that unravel. And I can’t imagine how they’ll get to the point that the audience is actually rooting for Kate and Philip, especially given that he’s been presented thus far as a rather unpleasant arrogant jerk.

Quote

e don't yet know who does what to bring everything about, but the flash forward where Toby is sitting alone in his bedroom is simply sad.

This show has always had a pretty high content of misery, but this will be unpleasant to watch...maybe they could couple it with Rebecca's cognitive decline and Kevin's career tanking!

Was anyone able to see anything in the "Rising Star" article....or even what magazine it was in? Maybe Randall's rising star can crash as well by 2030-let's go all in on misery.

Quote

Am I the only one who is afraid that Miguel is dead or otherwise out of the picture in 2025 and the wife Nicky is referring to is...Rebecca? I swear I will throw something at the screen if the showrunners go that route.

LOL

[General Days]

16 hours ago, virginia blue said:

I think the showrunners are making a risky choice here with the Kate/Toby/Philip twist. Love them or hate them, the show has invested a lot of time and energy into Kate and Toby’s relationship. We saw them meet, fall in love, weather health crises, have children. It’s going to be emotionally draining to watch that unravel. And I can’t imagine how they’ll get to the point that the audience is actually rooting for Kate and Philip, especially given that he’s been presented thus far as a rather unpleasant arrogant jerk.

 

I've expected Kate and Toby to split, and I'm fine with it. Sometimes, even once-great couples split. If Kate was marrying Gregory (Timothy Omundson) in the future, I'd be fine with it. Since Kate has a history of being abused by Marc, I'm not okay with some guy who started out demeaning her being her end-game.

 

Quote

Am I the only one who is afraid that Miguel is dead or otherwise out of the picture in 2025 and the wife Nicky is referring to is...Rebecca? I swear I will throw something at the screen if the showrunners go that route.

 

You are not alone. I feel like Sally was a giant misdirect, and that the reason we saw Nicky sitting at a dying Rebecca's bedside is because she's his wife, not just Jack's.

(Besides, what grown woman forgets to pack her stockings for a wedding? A woman with cognitive impairment.)

 

15 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Oh Randy P!  I'm so over Randall's identity crisis, we need a new word for over.  Seeing him there once again, having an emotional talk with one of his mothers, tears streaming down his face, with babbling brooks, rivers and lakes all around, and all I could think was PLEASE LEAVE YOUR CLOTHES ON.  Yikes.  

What I found is that this show is so much more fun to watch once your gummies have kicked in.  Lesson learned.  

 

Randall, don't listen to Dreamboat Annie about the clothes. She's high as kite. 😉

[ams1001]

48 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Was anyone able to see anything in the "Rising Star" article....or even what magazine it was in? Maybe Randall's rising star can crash as well by 2030-let's go all in on misery.

According to the TVLine recap, it was The New Yorker. Which I mostly have only ever read for the cartoons.

38 minutes ago, General Days said:

You are not alone. I feel like Sally was a giant misdirect, and that the reason we saw Nicky sitting at a dying Rebecca's bedside is because she's his wife, not just Jack's.

God, I hope not. Especially after he went off on Miguel, who he had just met, for "moving in on" his best friend's girl, even though Jack had been gone for years by then and he didn't know the whole story. (Though I recall someone suggested after we first saw that future scene that maybe Rebecca thinks he's Jack at that point and he's just playing along. Which could be interesting. The idea that he would actually marry his sister-in-law who is in serious cognitive decline is really icky. Her symptoms are mild now, but I imagine in 4-5 years she's likely to be significantly worse.)

Edited May 27, 2021 by ams1001

[Ohmo]

6 hours ago, circumvent said:

I disagree that teenagers expressing themselves through clothes is silly though. It is part of being a teenager.

For me, it wasn't about Tess expressing herself through clothes, it was about when she was choosing to do it. Deja and Malik were on the phone with each other, and I wish that had been paired with Tess on the phone with Alex. I like Alex, and have always had the sense that they are further along with being comfortable about their identity than Tess currently is about hers.

A phone exchange where Tess complains about the dress and Alex reminds her that Kevin was one of her first allies about her sexuality (because I think Tess would likely have told Alex that) would have been a home run there instead of what we got. I think Alex would have the maturity to remind Tess of something like that, it would have been something I think Tess would really hear from Alex, it would have further acknowledged them as a couple, and it would have shown some growth by Tess during this process.  Missed opportunity.

[General Days]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

God, I hope not. Especially after he went off on Miguel, who he had just met, for "moving in on" his best friend's girl, even though Jack had been gone for years by then and he didn't know the whole story. (Though I recall someone suggested after we first saw that future scene that maybe Rebecca thinks he's Jack at the point and he's just playing along. Which could be interesting. The idea that he would actually marry his sister-in-law who is in serious cognitive decline is really icky. Her symptoms are mild now, but I imagine in 4-5 years she's likely to be significantly worse.)

I can't actually imagine Nicky having sex, particularly with Rebecca, so it's less icky to me, and more just Nicky caring for Jack's wife in her decline. I like your idea that he might play along with her mistaking him for Jack, though. There's something very sweet about that.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

*So Kate just had to call the British dude on Kevin's wedding day to tender her resignation?  Seriously?  And puffed up like a peacock when he refused to accept it.  Of course, she didn't even bother to wait until her next day at work to explain that her husband had landed a job up in SF or any details...but she was compelled to call and quit on the spot.  Again, on Kevin's wedding day.

When Kate went outside to make the call, I was 100% sure she was calling Toby to apologize for jumping on him over the 'I love my kids, but' thing and tell him they could and would work out him taking the job. Or at least to tell him that she understood how hard things were for him right now and that they'd work it out. Instead, Kate made it all about Kate (and later we learned why it had to be British Guy).

[Persnickety1]

12 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

When Kate went outside to make the call, I was 100% sure she was calling Toby to apologize for jumping on him over the 'I love my kids, but' thing and tell him they could and would work out him taking the job. Or at least to tell him that she understood how hard things were for him right now and that they'd work it out. Instead, Kate made it all about Kate (and later we learned why it had to be British Guy).

That's what I thought, too!  

Then I realized this is Kate we're dealing with so of course it had to be about her.  😂

 

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

For me, it wasn't about Tess expressing herself through clothes, it was about when she was choosing to do it.

Which leads to the point that she must have tried the dress before and she would have had the same feelings. But the writers wanted some extra drama I guess. Unrealistic and out of character.

I think your scenario would have been much better, and conveyed the same idea of respecting her identity and individuality. My guess is that they rushed with a bad idea to reconnect Tess and Beth because it was the season finale

[MissLucas]

Speaking of British guy: Apparently Madison's mother had a British accent. There are already some mad theories out there how these two could be related. Because there's no such thing as coincidence in Pearson world!

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

I really like Deja as a character and her development has been interesting to watch, but she's too young to be getting into all this heavy stuff, especially since she's only been able to even be a "kid" for a very short time, given all that she went through in her early life. When you're a teenager, every relationship feels like the ONE, but the adults should know better and be encouraging her to be young and do her own thing.

Originally when Malik came into the picture, Randall and Beth were not happy at all, they didn't encourage it. Then it evolved into Randall mentoring him, and now he's off to the Ivy League school of his choice.  We know from the future that Deja is in medical school, so she turns out fine, too. That's the trouble with showing too much of the future, we know that, and it's why I can't get too ramped up about Tess and the dress--she ends up a social worker on apparently good terms with her entire family. So now it's only Toby that we don't know about how he weathered divorce, but it doesn't look too cheery. And Miguel who is probably gone.

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

The idea that he would actually marry his sister-in-law who is in serious cognitive decline is really icky. Her symptoms are mild now, but I imagine in 4-5 years she's likely to be significantly worse.)

Yes, and probably not competent to enter a marriage.  I think it's a non-starter.

[smartymarty]

My guess is that the girls were not given the bridesmaid dresses until that day, on account of the wedding being on their opposite coast. Yes, that's a stupid thing to do, what if they didn't fit, yada yada, but I thought that's what the show wanted us to believe. (And I thought the dresses were absolutely gorgeous on all of them.)

Stop making Nicky annoying. It's not funny. It's annoying. Why would he have the chairs delivered to the wedding venue rather than the house where they live together??

If Malik goes to Harvard, prepare yourselves for a Randall Speech about how it's important for Janelle to know her real mother. Because from this episode, it seems Randall is more enthralled by the mother he never met than the one who raised him. "And that's more important, Deja."

So felt for Madison, who really is in love with Kevin, having to be the one to call the wedding off. She's the one you'd expect to be rationalizing that "maybe he'll grow to love me." Instead, we get Kevin with everything about faaaaamily.

Wanted to gag at the backflash wedding. What terrible parents Jack and Rebecca were. Coddling the kids -- oh no, they saw us disagree! As others had pointed out, no sincere apology from Jack, and the kids are not taught that you can still love someone even though you've had a disagreement. What a waste of a Saturday afternoon.

I too thought that Kate was going to call Toby about him accepting the job. For one, since their disagreement, he might have turned the job down already. Getting that confirmed was far more important than Kate quitting her current job. And Jamie (that was British Guy's name on A Million Little Things) must already be interested in Kate, because normally there'd be no reason to press someone who has a legitimate reason for resigning from doing so when you have lots of other qualified applicants. We have seen nothing to suggest he's smitten already. (Plus, I'm mad because I really liked him with Maggie on AMLT. She finally wasn't insufferable.)

I assumed that Tess wanted pants instead of a dress. Not because *all lesbians hate dresses,* but because it never would have occurred to me that she just didn't like *that* dress. It was beautiful on her. Not her style? Who cares? Again, horrible parenting.

So tired of this family not letting go of Jack. I feel so badly for Miguel. Normally, the conversation at a wedding with this type of family would be "Hey, too bad Dad's not here." "Oh yeah, right! So glad Mom has Miguel." It's been 25 years, people! Yes, you remember him, but not to the exclusion of the new people in your lives.

[Persnickety1]

On 5/26/2021 at 6:50 AM, LeighLeigh said:

Just curious how many teenagers you have? I have three. This is extremely realistic. It is always interesting to hear parenting advice from people who aren’t parents. 

*raising hand*

I raised a teenager who is now a lovely 31-year-old woman, gracious, respectful and sensitive to the feelings of others, and who realizes the world will not always revolve around her (although my world, as her mother, will always revolve around her).  

Had my lovely daughter been in Tess's place, I'd have told her, "I can appreciate that, but today is not about you, dear.  It's about Madison and Kevin.  You only have to wear it for a couple of hours, then you can change into something else.  Let's go see if Madison needs help with anything."  

Of course, I'm not a Pearson by blood nor by marriage, so I enjoy keeping drama to a minimum, even when raising a teenager.  

 

[tinderbox]

I was completely shocked that Kate would end up marrying Philip five years in the future.  It never even crossed my mind as a possibility.  (I will say, I loved the actor in the role he played earlier this year on A Million Little Things and was sorry to see him go.  In fact, I STILL want him to return!)
 

Someone upthread mentioned the possibility of Madison wearing the earrings her mother had given to her, years earlier, during the future scene.  If she’s wearing them it means she did find her true love.  However, that doesn’t mean it’s Kevin.  While watching that scene, I spent the entire time trying to spot an engagement or wedding ring on her finger but her left hand was off camera 99% of the time.  I wasn’t able to see Kevin’s left hand either.  Did any of you?  I was always a Sophie fan and wanted to see Kevin and Sophie together in the end but now I’m not so sure how I feel.  
 

As for Tess.  If I were her mother, I would have told her to grow up, wear the damn dress for the day, and move on.
 

The child actor who played little Kevin during the flashback of this episode is a complete doll.  

Edited May 27, 2021 by tinderbox

[Boo Boo]

16 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

*raising hand*

I raised a teenager who is now a lovely 31-year-old woman, gracious, respectful and sensitive to the feelings of others, and who realizes the world will not always revolve around her (although my world, as her mother, will always revolve around her).  

Had my lovely daughter been in Tess's place, I'd have told her, "I can appreciate that, but today is not about you, dear.  It's about Madison and Kevin.  You only have to wear it for a couple of hours, then you can change into something else.  Let's go see if Madison needs help with anything."  

Of course, I'm not a Pearson by blood nor by marriage, so I enjoy keeping drama to a minimum, even when raising a teenager.  

 

Your daughter sounds so lovely. Good job mom!

I can totally picture my kid complaining about the dress.  And I would've said what you did.  I probably would've thrown in a few curse words though which wouldn't have been helpful.

[watch2much]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:09 PM, t7686 said:

edited to add: I also think it could be that the Brit guy is Madison’s brother. Her mom did have a British accent. It would be soapy but I could see it.

wow, I never thought of that but given this show....it just might be....and Kate could be renewing her vows with Toby for all we know....

I, too, hope Kevin eventually falls truly in love with Madison and they end up together.  I'm so over Sophie....they've had enough tries to make it work and clearly it doesn't.

[Boo Boo]

3 minutes ago, watch2much said:

wow, I never thought of that but given this show....it just might be....and Kate could be renewing her vows with Toby for all we know....

I, too, hope Kevin eventually falls truly in love with Madison and they end up together.  I'm so over Sophie....they've had enough tries to make it work and clearly it doesn't.

Spoiler

Someone up thread said that Fogelman said Kate is marrying British guy and the scene is exactly what it was.

 

[suzeecat]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:04 PM, Spencer Hastings said:

I knew that Madison and Kevin wouldn’t go through with it. 

Ugh, I hated this British guy in A Million Little Things and I hate him here.  Toby got on my last nerves at first but come on. Definitely didn’t see Kate remarrying though, so there’s that. 

Oh wow, I THOUGHT it looked like the same guy!  Is there a shortage of British actors that they have to keep recycling the same one(s)???

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Given how this show seems to love to go for maximum melodrama, I was surprised they didn’t do the cliche of Madison pulling Kevin aside for the “talk” just as the vows were supposed to start, followed by her running away in tears. Glad they didn’t do that.

This is Us if it was a Lifetime Movie.

4 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Can someone please slap the snot out of Tess? ‘This dress isn’t me.’ Seriously? As others have already said, it isn’t ABOUT you. You’re a bridesmaid in someone else’s wedding. You don’t have to like the damn dress, you just have to wear it for a few hours. Then you can burn it if you want. But for Beth to say ‘okay we’ll just make it you” did nothing but encourage future bratty behavior. Stop bowing down to her because she’s gay and you want to be the cool mom who accepts her without hesitation. Find another way to show your acceptance. Being gay is not an excuse for being disrespectful.

Randall can suck it with the whole ‘my mother was a force of nature’ crap. He never met his mother. She was a drug addict who walked away and never looked back. Never told William she was alive, never looked for her son. And he never met her. He HEARD she was a force of nature. He HEARD lots of things about her. And now she’s a saint. Stuff it Randy P. 🤬 

re the flash forward, I like the idea that Kate and Toby are renewing their vows a lot better than her marrying the Brit. 

I am getting so annoyed at Randall putting his biological mother/father and Saint Jack on a pedestal. Yet, the woman who actually did the hard work of raising him has to give him constant apologies and he treats her with disdain.

I'm sorry, Laurel was the definition of a wasted life. She was almost as bad as Nicky in wasted potential, with the exception that she did not live like a totally secluded hermit. "A Force of Nature" would have least tried to see if her baby boy was okay.

 

 

[watch2much]

well, regardless....I'm glad they are pulling the plug on the show after next season.  Some weeks it feels like more of an obligation rather than an enjoyment to watch.  I had hoped we'd start seeing more of the next generation's story, i.e. Jack's success as a singer, his sister's work....

I will miss Kevin.....he seems to have grown the most and taken responsibility for his mistakes.  The other two seem to enjoy whining.

[MissLucas]

As for British guy being Madison's brother I checked with IMDB - Chris Geere is seven years older than Caitlin Thompson. Not sure how old Madison was supposed to be in the scene with Mother-from-hell but Philip looks too old for being her presumably younger brother. (Of course Mom could have had a secret love child before hooking up with Dad.) 

Still I think there's got to be some significance in hiring a British actress for that short scene.

Also: this show has now given us two highly significant jewelry heirlooms connected with Kevin. And in both cases the stones seem to be emeralds.

[Tango64]

Even with the wedding and all the drama surrounding Kevin and Madison, Randall still has to try to turn it into This Is Why You Shouldn't Adopt. I had hoped he saw the folly of idolizing Laurel after that group therapy, but no, he keeps manipulating Rebecca into apologizing and telling him she loves him the most, while telling her how totally freaking awesome his birth mother was. 

[Dreamboat Annie]

3 hours ago, General Days said:

Randall, don't listen to Dreamboat Annie about the clothes. She's high as kite.

LOL!!!  Okay, okay.  Randall looks amazing shirtless.  I will give you that.  I guess he can take his clothes off, but definitely never, ever in the presence of either of his mothers (ghosts or not).  He can even go skinny dipping.  But how about just with Beth?  Definitely never, ever with either of his mothers (ghosts or not).  And hey, I was not high as a kite.  I know this because when I am, more goldfish crackers land on the floor than on my lap. 😂

 

48 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I am getting so annoyed at Randall putting his biological mother/father and Saint Jack on a pedestal. Yet, the woman who actually did the hard work of raising him has to give him constant apologies and he treats her with disdain.

Hear!  Hear!  That is probably the best comment I have ever read about Randall's parentage whine fest.  Even worse that Rebecca is now in a weakened state and he still won't give the poor woman a break.  

 

Did Malik tell Deja that he was actually going to Harvard or just that he applied there and was accepted?  Because that would be a really convenient way to write Malik out.  I have always suspected he would break up with Deja by telling her he had to "do the right thing" for Jenelle by being with Jennifer.  Boston and Cambridge are literally right next to each other.  Randall and Beth's daughters are still so young it's very unlikely they'd be with the people they're seeing now when they are adults.  I hope they do this swiftly because with only 18 remaining episodes there doesn't seem to be extra time to spend on the relationships the girls had as young teens/tweens.

In an interview with Dan Fogelman about this episode, he talked of Kate and Toby.  He said that even the most loving marriages can end, and also that "marriage is not for everyone".  I think he was talking about Toby, who I would believe doesn't remarry.  After all this isn't Toby's first failed marriage.  Kate is not his first wife.  I don't recall - was Toby really miserable in the hotel room?  And when he said something like "I'm not sure she'd want me there", was he talking about Rebecca or Kate?  Do we know?  Anyway, if it was Kate (or even Rebecca) perhaps their split was not amicable because (given this is the Pearson family) why else would Jack and Hailey's Dad not be wanted there?  

[qtpye]

29 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

LOL!!!  Okay, okay.  Randall looks amazing shirtless.  I will give you that.  I guess he can take his clothes off, but definitely never, ever in the presence of either of his mothers (ghosts or not).  He can even go skinny dipping.  But how about just with Beth?  Definitely never, ever with either of his mothers (ghosts or not).  And hey, I was not high as a kite.  I know this because when I am, more goldfish crackers land on the floor than on my lap. 😂

 

Hear!  Hear!  That is probably the best comment I have ever read about Randall's parentage whine fest.  Even worse that Rebecca is now in a weakened state and he still won't give the poor woman a break.  

 

Did Malik tell Deja that he was actually going to Harvard or just that he applied there and was accepted?  Because that would be a really convenient way to write Malik out.  I have always suspected he would break up with Deja by telling her he had to "do the right thing" for Jenelle by being with Jennifer.  Boston and Cambridge are literally right next to each other.  Randall and Beth's daughters are still so young it's very unlikely they'd be with the people they're seeing now when they are adults.  I hope they do this swiftly because with only 18 remaining episodes there doesn't seem to be extra time to spend on the relationships the girls had as young teens/tweens.

In an interview with Dan Fogelman about this episode, he talked of Kate and Toby.  He said that even the most loving marriages can end, and also that "marriage is not for everyone".  I think he was talking about Toby, who I would believe doesn't remarry.  After all this isn't Toby's first failed marriage.  Kate is not his first wife.  I don't recall - was Toby really miserable in the hotel room?  And when he said something like "I'm not sure she'd want me there", was he talking about Rebecca or Kate?  Do we know?  Anyway, if it was Kate (or even Rebecca) perhaps their split was not amicable because (given this is the Pearson family) why else would Jack and Hailey's Dad not be wanted there?  

I feel like this show's definition of a good mother is one that is a total doormat to her children and husband.

Rebecca has always been this way with Randall and Kate, with Kate just recently acknowledging after 30 years that Rebecca was a good mother to her.

Randall acts like he is doing her a giant favor by being her son.

She conveniently ignores Kevin until she needs him to do something for her. Perhaps it was because he felt neglected but it did not seem like Kevin had a ton of respect for her while growing up, either. It was all about pleasing Dad by being a sports hero.

Now they are repeating this pattern with Beth and Tess.

[Ohiopirate02]

39 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

 

In an interview with Dan Fogelman about this episode, he talked of Kate and Toby.  He said that even the most loving marriages can end, and also that "marriage is not for everyone".  I think he was talking about Toby, who I would believe doesn't remarry.  After all this isn't Toby's first failed marriage.  Kate is not his first wife.  I don't recall - was Toby really miserable in the hotel room?  And when he said something like "I'm not sure she'd want me there", was he talking about Rebecca or Kate?  Do we know?  Anyway, if it was Kate (or even Rebecca) perhaps their split was not amicable because (given this is the Pearson family) why else would Jack and Hailey's Dad not be wanted there?  

Toby wasn't looking that great in the hotel room, but neither did Tess and Randall in their scenes.  Because, they are not gathering together for a happy occasion.   They are gathering around Rebecca's deathbed after her decade long battle with alzheimers.   And now that we know Toby and Kate divorce it has a potential to get awkward.  

10 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

She conveniently ignores Kevin until she needs him to do something for her. Perhaps it was because he felt neglected but it did not seem like Kevin had a ton of respect for her while growing up, either. It was all about pleasing Dad by being a sports hero.

Rebecca asks Kevin to build her the house right after Kate expresses her concerns that Kevin might relapse.   Kate tells Kevin to keep busy, and Rebecca says build me that house.  Rebecca is trying to give Kevin a project that is complex and longterm so he stays sober.

[Cosmocrush]

On 5/26/2021 at 5:29 AM, cameron said:

Rebecca needs to realize that Jack has been gone for a long time and that Miquel is her husband now and has been for quite a while.  He should be the one here for situations like this.

Sure, but Jack is the father of her kids. 

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Tango64 said:

Even with the wedding and all the drama surrounding Kevin and Madison, Randall still has to try to turn it into This Is Why You Shouldn't Adopt. I had hoped he saw the folly of idolizing Laurel after that group therapy, but no, he keeps manipulating Rebecca into apologizing and telling him she loves him the most, while telling her how totally freaking awesome his birth mother was. 

The other thing that Randall seems to have forgotten is that Laurel had no idea whatsoever what had happened to him.  She might have thought William had custody of him since he was his biologic father and could've proved his paternity. After all, if she got the police reports, she would've discovered that he was there with the baby when the EMT's arrived and then disappeared with him.  Yet, she apparently never even tried to find William, let alone try to discover what had happened to her son.  So, all of Randall's nonsense about his biologic mother is just that; even if Rebecca and Jack hadn't adopted him; Laurel would never have been involved in his upbringing and Randall still would've never known her. William thought she was dead and she seemingly didn't seem to care enough to track him or Randall down.

The version of Laurel we saw on the show was NOT a 'force of nature' IMO.  Seemed like she spent much of her life passively waiting around for others to come to her, not vice versa.  I didn't find her life story inspiring at all. 

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am getting so annoyed at Randall putting his biological mother/father and Saint Jack on a pedestal. Yet, the woman who actually did the hard work of raising him has to give him constant apologies and he treats her with disdain.

I'm sorry, Laurel was the definition of a wasted life. She was almost as bad as Nicky in wasted potential, with the exception that she did not live like a totally secluded hermit. "A Force of Nature" would have least tried to see if her baby boy was okay.

I agree somewhat and disagree a little.  To be fair, Randall did preface his talk with Rebecca by emphasizing Laurel being his biological mother.  What I didn't like was his attitude while still at Rebecca and Miguel's house, he clearly didn't want to get into it then but he was condescending about it, I felt.

As for Laurel, her life was wasted in the sense that she kept herself in her own prison in a way.  She was punishing herself.  The bigger issue is that five years in prison for using drugs is nonsensical and does zero to rectify anything. She had a big assist from the justice system for her failed life, if it was that.  As far as not finding Randall, it couldn't have happened until he was at least five years old, and how much help is a convicted felon going to get in the search?  I do think she could have/should have tried to find William, though, to get some answers, but I can also see why she would want to close that chapter. I wonder, and I may have missed some details along the way, if William had ever told Randall Laurel's last name and if so, he could have had his investigator follow up on that and find her prison records at least.

[debraran]

Guess Chrissy/Kate knew for quite a while about her marriage (but then I guess we did too)

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by debraran

[Boo Boo]

21 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

 

What I found is that this show is so much more fun to watch once your gummies have kicked in.  Lesson learned.  

Are we twins?  

I make my own gummies and woah, every reality show I watch is hilarious...until I have too many and I then I can't stand the arguments!  

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

*Tess's girlfriend, who I believe was also the one with Tess when they made that video cursing and mocking the teachers or whatever that mess was, is now valedictorian of the class a year later?  The shark has been jumped, show.  

They made the video cursing the teacher, because the teacher refused to use their proper pronouns. There is no reason why they couldn't have been a great student all along who was rightfully pissed at being mislabeled as female.

7 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

We already know that his baby's mother is living in Boston and that she now wants to be involved with their daughter.  I presume that one of the reasons he applied to Harvard is so that he and their daughter can be closer to her mother and that she and/or her family will help with childcare.  Even though Malik's parents currently have custody, I expect that, now that he is 18, he can ask for custody and it will very likely be granted to him.

Malik lives with his parents and they help, but that does not mean they have legal custody. I'd be pretty surprised if they would have actually gone to court to get custody over Malik (or am I just not remembering them talking about that). I'm guessing if he goes to Harvard, he plans to take Janelle with him.

In most states, minors with children have legal rights to make decisions for the child, even though they don't have the legal right to make those choices for themselves.

[Lone Wolf]

The problem with this forum is if you don't watch the show as it airs (which I don't), by the time you do watch it (for me, the next day) everyone's already said what you think!😲

I'll just add that I knew Kevin and Madison weren't getting married when she asked him if he loved her (or at least I knew that they better not be).  If you have to ask that question that late in the game, you're doomed.

These characters' personalities are so fluid...now Nervous Randy P. is the calming influence on his "brotha".  I know, I guess people step up when they need to, and the writers need to move the plot forward.  And, like it says in the MST3K Theme Song, "Repeat to yourself, 'It's just a show, I should really just relax'."

Really good misdirect at the end.  I'm in the Bug-Marries-Brit camp.

All that being said, there are shows that I've genuinely dreaded knowing were coming to an end, and that I knew I would miss. It's been fun, and I'll be watching next season, but this ain't one of them. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Toby wasn't looking that great in the hotel room, but neither did Tess and Randall in their scenes.  Because, they are not gathering together for a happy occasion.   They are gathering around Rebecca's deathbed after her decade long battle with alzheimers.   And now that we know Toby and Kate divorce it has a potential to get awkward.  

Rebecca asks Kevin to build her the house right after Kate expresses her concerns that Kevin might relapse.   Kate tells Kevin to keep busy, and Rebecca says build me that house.  Rebecca is trying to give Kevin a project that is complex and longterm so he stays sober.

I guess that is true to a degree that she knows adult Kevin loves to do things for people and building the house will let him focus on something positive (fulfilling Jack's dream).

However, you have a son on a hit show and never once bother to go to a single taping? When you do go to a taping you have to run out to watch Kate sing, even though she does not want you to come along?

Also, Kevin is the only one who has had success in a creative field...which was very close to her dream

I also did not love that Kevin's wedding is where she is crying over Randall's birth mother being so beautiful.

I have heard that having 3 children is the hardest number because 1 will get neglected. More than 3 is when children start pairing off and help parent each other but I do not know if that is true.

[ams1001]

39 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

All that being said, there are shows that I've genuinely dreaded knowing were coming to an end, and that I knew I would miss. It's been fun, and I'll be watching next season, but this ain't one of them. 

I feel the same way.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I guess that is true to a degree that she knows adult Kevin loves to do things for people and building the house will let him focus on something positive (fulfilling Jack's dream).

However, you have a son on a hit show and never once bother to go to a single taping? When you do go to a taping you have to run out to watch Kate sing, even though she does not want you to come along?

Also, Kevin is the only one who has had success in a creative field...which was very close to her dream

I also did not love that Kevin's wedding is where she is crying over Randall's birth mother being so beautiful.

I have heard that having 3 children is the hardest number because 1 will get neglected. More than 3 is when children start pairing off and help parent each other but I do not know if that is true.

I am in the camp who sees how badly both Jack and Rebecca neglected Kevin through the years.  I empathize with Kevin because I was that child growing up with my mom.  I can watch the show and see how Rebecca failed Kevin as an adult like what you listed. But in this instance,  Rebecca is thinking about Kevin and what Kevin needs.  She is not using Kevin for his money.   What Kevin needs right now is something to keep him busy so he doesn't pick up a bottle.  Building that house is that something.  Of course he will still bond with his kids, but they are infants and Madison is breastfeeding,  so his time with them will be limited.  And the house is something he can contract people to build while he films another project.  Who knows, he may even meet a lady architect or contracted, and she can be his future wife.