S39.E12: Just Go For It

[4N6MAL]

On 12/12/2019 at 6:31 AM, Lantern7 said:

I swear, that wasn’t my intent. I was just thinking that Elaine seemed to be the opposite of the type Survivor would cast. And she called herself that during her trip to IOTI.

And you must be a teenager LANTERN7, if you think that Elaine is OLD! WOW!

[Lantern7]

1 hour ago, 4N6MAL said:

And you must be a teenager LANTERN7, if you think that Elaine is OLD! WOW!

*sigh* Turns out I'm three years older than her. While I was right to assume she was an older contestant,  I didn't know the gap between her and Elaine was 18 years. And I wasn't aware that Karishma (37 years old) and Noura (36) were not that far behind. And I still feel that Elaine and Janet going this deep into the game is surprising, especially since the host prefers younger men.

I apologize if I came off as generalizing . . . in general. I'm hoping Janet can pull off the win, but I wouldn't be shocked if Dean and Tommy wake up with immunity idols by their faces.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Lantern7

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Sandra would have told Dan to stop touching her and might very well have crossed the no punching rule the next time he did it. Sandra had no problem telling people that she did not like them or what they were doing. Russell knew that Sandra didn't like him. There would not have been any doubt about where she stood.

Of course Sandra wouldn't have hesitated to tell Dan to stop touching her.  I was comparing her to Missy and Elizabeth who used the situation to aid their game and I'm not sure Sandra (or some other past players) wouldn't have done the same thing if she thought she could get a person she wanted out, voted out. I certainly don't see her sticking her neck out for a third party the way Janet did.  Maybe we just don't know.

  My point is that, due to Dan being on their season, Missy and Elizabeth were faced with a moral vs game play decision that they really shouldn't have had to make and past Survivors haven't had to make.  I know I wouldn't have done what they did, but I think  many other, young, competitive types might have made the same wrong decision in the moment.   They will suffer long term consequences for their decision.  

[Zuleikha]

Would this be true if it were a full on punch in the face?

No, but I'm surprised no one has brought up the full on wrestling match over an idol clue that happened one season between two female contestants. IIRC, one of them was voted off unrelated to that, but neither of them were evicted or warned.

Survivor's been a pretty dirty game. Regardless of what we think SHOULD be the case, we've seen in the past that Survivor has no clear anti-harassment policy, and contestants have harassed each other (with the Richard/Sue incident being a particular low point). Competitive reality TV in general doesn't have strong anti-harassment policies. So to me, there seems like a difference between what we may wish to be the case and what Kellee had a reasonable expectation to believe would be the case.

I do think production was in a tough place. Kellee's explanation for why she didn't ask for Dan to be evicted is because it would mess up her game. But how would it be different if production had evicted Dan on her behalf? That could still mess up her game, too. With either no clear policy or a clear policy that Dan didn't violate, I think it makes sense to let Kellee make the call. She chose that she preferred to leave him in the game and initially target Missy.

[Kaiju Ballet]

I really appreciated Elaine as a player. She was unapologetically herself, was self-deprecating, and even leveraged being underestimated as much as she could.

I was really surprised to hear that she was a glass half-empty person, since she seemed to always be positive and warm in her interactions with others. I hope that Lauren gained a lot more respect for Elaine after her dismissive TH earlier in the season.

I wish I could hear more behind Tommy describing Dean as being previously perceived as a goat -- did Dean tell him the circumstances behind his idol play?

[simplyme]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:55 PM, MVFrostsMyPie said:

And, no offense, but if you’re 26ish, why do you still go by Tommy? 

He and production may have agreed on Tommy to help differentiate him from Tom.

19 hours ago, Trepis said:

The idea that womens bodies are property , we talk about how Dan wouldn't ever have touched the guys; I dont think he ever consciously thought ' I dont want to touch Deans hair' : the thought jsut never enters his mind. 

Sorry. According to Tommy, Dean's too busy running his hands through his own hair. No room for anyone else's paws.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Well, Varner has weighed in. 😐

he says the reunion is pre-taped Bc the cast is supporting DAN and want to call out production. 

What do we make of this? Varner turned out to be off his rocker the last I heard. I certainly hope the "entire" cast isn't backing Dan. I think it's more likely the reunion show is getting pre-taped just because the network/producers are afraid of some kind of outburst in the audience.

[4N6MAL]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

*sigh* Turns out I'm three years older than her. While I was right to assume she was an older contestant,  I didn't know the gap between her and Elaine was 18 years. And I wasn't aware that Karishma (37 years old) and Noura (36) were not that far behind. And I still feel that Elaine and Janet going this deep into the game is surprising, especially since the host prefers younger men.

I apologize if I came off as generalizing . . . in general. I'm hoping Janet can pull off the win, but I wouldn't be shocked if Dean and Tommy wake up with immunity idols by their faces.

I'm rooting for the old girl too, Janet! 😊 But Elaine was my favorite, busted can of biscuits and all!

[mythoughtis]

3 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Well, Varner has weighed in. 😐

he says the reunion is pre-taped Bc the cast is supporting DAN and want to call out production. 😯

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/survivor-dan-spilo-inappropriate-touching-incident-jeff-varner-slams-cbs-pretaped-reunion.amp

And he knows this how?   He wasn’t there.  There’s film of Dan touching various contestants.  He got ejected for touching a producer.     At least   3 of those cast members have already apologized regarding the Kellie incident.   

Edited December 13, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Well, Varner has weighed in. 😐

he says the reunion is pre-taped Bc the cast is supporting DAN and want to call out production. 😯

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/survivor-dan-spilo-inappropriate-touching-incident-jeff-varner-slams-cbs-pretaped-reunion.amp

Who gives a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut what that sack of shit Varner thinks of the situation?  Anybody?  Anybody?  Bueller?

3 hours ago, RescueMom said:

Great list - you missed one that I saw someone argue on Twitter yesterday:

F. Whine about how unfair it is that other people can touch her but you can't ("If Janet gets to hug you than I have every right to hug you too!")

Waddafuck are we talking about here - a human being, or a toy?  “You’ve played with her long enough, Janet - now it’s MY turn!”

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

On topic, I really wish they had made it clearer when the ejection occurred. It looked like the next morning after the TC.

That was definitely the impression the edit inferred, but its accuracy is open to question.  All we know at this point is Dan’s ejection resulted from some hands-on action with a staffer after an Immunity Challenge, but we have no clue which IC.  There is quite possibly a couple days’ worth of a Reward Challenge / beach politics / Immunity Challenge cycle we’re getting cut out of because of this latest round of SheDanigans.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Nashville
Hit Save too soon

[Ms Blue Jay]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What do we make of this? 

That he's a moron

[fishcakes]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

47 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What do we make of this? 

That he's a moron

Yeah, Varner and Hatch seem to think if they make the case that Dan was set up by TPTB, then it lends credence to their claims that they were set up. Which would be a fantastic argument except for all that pesky video footage of each of their acts of douchebaggery.

[simplyme]

57 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

What do we make of this? Varner turned out to be off his rocker the last I heard. I certainly hope the "entire" cast isn't backing Dan. I think it's more likely the reunion show is getting pre-taped just because the network/producers are afraid of some kind of outburst in the audience.

Varner's opinion is completely immaterial. Moreover, so is that of most of the cast. The only things that matter are the person who made the complaint, Dan, maybe witnesses, and lawyers. Varner goes on and on about Kellee, seemingly unaware that this last incident did not involve her. It sure sounds like it involves workplace sexual harassment, though, which was prime for a lawsuit if TPTB didn't act.

Which is why Varner's rantings can be summarised as "Angry Derp."

Edited December 13, 2019 by simplyme
typed "staff" instead of "cast." Derp myself.

[30 Helens]

Yeah, Jeff Varner is the guy you want to explain the boundaries of appropriate behavior. <giant eye roll>

The Hollywood Reporter has a good article that summarizes what many of us are thinking.  
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fien-print/survivor-39-dan-kellee-critics-notebook-1262266

I really can’t fathom why CBS/ Survivor producers chose to air this season.  I mean, it’s not like it happens live.  They knew what was coming.  Are they really so tone deaf that they thought they would come off well? That another chipper “We’re learning and evolving!” response would fly today, as it (sort of) did in the era of Sue Hawk and Richard Hatch? (An incident which, factored in, proves that they have not learned or evolved AT ALL.)

I’m really angry at CBS and all the producers involved in this trainwreck: partly because of the way they handled this situation, but mostly because they may, in fact, have killed my favorite show. 

[phlebas]

I am going to turn to Jeff Varner for all my future ethical decisions.

[gail56]

3 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

And he knows this how?   He wasn’t there.  There’s film of Dan touching various contestants.  He got ejected for touching a producer.     At least   3 of those cast members have already apologized regarding the Kellie incident.   

On another forum I visit there is someone who is somewhat of an insider. He says he has heard that Dan is suing and that it is the final 4 who are supporting Dan and are threatening to boycott the reunion.  So that rumor is out there and not just with Varner. How true it is remains to be seen.

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, gail56 said:

On another forum I visit there is someone who is somewhat of an insider. He says he has heard that Dan is suing and that it is the final 4 who are supporting Dan and are threatening to boycott the reunion.  So that rumor is out there and not just with Varner. How true it is remains to be seen.

Lemme guess, Dan will represent himself, and when CBS shows the incriminating footage, Dan will ask the jury, "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?"

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, lilabennet said:

I'm not sure about Survivor, but on The Challenge a punch will automatically get you ejected while some other sort of physical altercation (like a violent push, even down to the ground) means that production will talk to all of the cast members and if one says that they feel unsafe, then the person is ejected (or sometimes just sent to a hotel for a while to calm down).  Sometimes if there is only one person likely to say they feel unsafe, then the other cast members will talk them out of insisting the offender goes home before production gets to them.  The offender is given a warning and a second violation sends them home.  Girls usually get away with more than guys do and better competitors get away with less because people want them to go home.

I remember way back when the show started, hearing that the only real rules on Survivor were that contestants couldn't share the million dollars and that they couldn't physically attack/touch another contestant. It was a big deal when they started having challenges where contestants were actually made to fight each other. It was a change in the rules. But I assume that was only for the challenges and they were still forbidden from fighting any other time. 

Now, contestants touch each other all the time, usually quite willingly. But I think with a punch where it was clearly a fight, they might pull the contestant. But they may try and get the other contestants to say they are voting for him first (like with Brandon).

19 minutes ago, gail56 said:

On another forum I visit there is someone who is somewhat of an insider. He says he has heard that Dan is suing and that it is the final 4 who are supporting Dan and are threatening to boycott the reunion.  So that rumor is out there and not just with Varner. How true it is remains to be seen.

I would be surprised if any of the final 4 really wanted to boycott the reunion, since one of them is the winner (and maybe others still think they won). I know they'll get the money either way, but would any of them care enough about Dan to miss their moment in the spotlight? They may support him, but skipping the reunion wouldn't accomplish anything. However, the cast supporting Dan does explain them not wanting to do a live show.

But regarding Dan, what really matters is the other person involved in the incident. Presumably that crew member/producer complained about what Dan did. It doesn't matter who supports Dan if the person he allegedly touched does not.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Dan is suing. CBS will probably settle.

[blackwing]

I don’t mind the loss of Elaine... she seems like a nice person but her “awww shucks Jeff, ahm just a redneck hillbilly” persona grew old.  I think she is way smarter than she portrays herself and I think portraying herself as a hayseed fish out of water (like JT to some extent in his first season) was part of her strategy.  
 

Ecstatic that we never have to see Dan again.  I wonder if Kellee has a case for a lawsuit against the producers.  She’s clearly still feeling the anguish and she could slap them with emotional distress.  I hope all of Dan’s clients fire him.  And I am truly shocked that he is only 48 years old. I get that the beard makes him look older but still, he easily looks 58.  
 

I don’t get why Rob tried to get Dean to take the deal by saying “you’re risking your vote, that’s a big move that you can impress the jury with”.  Every single person who went to the island except for Janet risked their vote.  So I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
 

Funniest line of the night was Tommy saying that Dean just sits there all the time and runs his hand through his hair.  And then I started noticing him doing it all the time.  I’m sure he always did, just never noticed it.  

Edited December 14, 2019 by blackwing

[Rachel RSL]

5 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I’m really angry at CBS and all the producers involved in this trainwreck: partly because of the way they handled this situation, but mostly because they may, in fact, have killed my favorite show. 

Of course this is all secondary to the real world stuff that is going down, but I’m also angry at how letting Dan remain in the game for so long killed what started out as a great season. It seems so long ago but remember the first month of this season? When every week was a blindside and we were commenting on what a mature cast it was? That seems like a million years ago. 

2 hours ago, gail56 said:

On another forum I visit there is someone who is somewhat of an insider. He says he has heard that Dan is suing and that it is the final 4 who are supporting Dan and are threatening to boycott the reunion.  So that rumor is out there and not just with Varner. How true it is remains to be seen.

First of all, fuck Jeff Varner. (That goes without saying but I felt the need to say it anyway because, seriously, fuck that guy.) Would the final four really break their contracts and lose, not only their money, but set themselves up for a countersuit from a major corporation? And would they really want to attach themselves to Dan rather than distance themselves from whatever rabbit hole he would drag them down? I’ll take it with a grain of salt until I actually see it happen.

That being said, if it is true, and all Dan’s cronies want to boycott, I’m totally fine with them bumping the non-Dan supporters up to the final 3, having a live vote with a teeny tiny jury, and giving the money to one of them instead. I wish we could give this year’s million to Reem.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I don’t get why Rob tried to get Dean to take the deal by saying “you’re risking your vote, that’s a big move that you can impress the jury with”.  Every single person who went to the island except for Janet risked their vote.  So I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.  

You know Rob was praying for that coin to land on “no” so he could grin that charming grin and tell Dean what a dummy he was.

[princelina]

12 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

if Rob and Sandra return in future seasons, I’d love it if they heckled/encouraged players during challenges.  Maybe there can be a special reward called “Roasting with Rob” where he feeds the players and mouths off to them.  Or something.

My wish is for Rob and Sandra to exit the spy shack and ask questions along with the jury 😄 

[Scatterbrained]

11 minutes ago, princelina said:

My wish is for Rob and Sandra to exit the spy shack and ask questions along with the jury 😄 

Maybe they can take Dan’s place on the jury.  They’ll have to share a vote, though.

[BK1978]

13 hours ago, 4N6MAL said:

And you must be a teenager LANTERN7, if you think that Elaine is OLD! WOW!

I am the same age as Elaine and I was surprised when I found that out.  I would have said she was in her late 40's - early 50's.  But then again I am notoriously bad at guess people's age.

Honestly, in a show that tends to not cast many people over the age of 35, 41 would make her old.  Not in real life mind you (unless we are living in ancient Rome) but for the show, yes she is considered an "older woman".  Hell there have been seasons in the past where being 41 would make you the oldest contestant in the cast. 

Also, I might find her to be annoying but I have to say Karishma looked beautiful when she debuted in the jury.

[BK1978]

5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

That being said, if it is true, and all Dan’s cronies want to boycott, I’m totally fine with them bumping the non-Dan supporters up to the final 3, having a live vote with a teeny tiny jury, and giving the money to one of them instead. I wish we could give this year’s million to Reem.

I have certain triggers that will make me laugh when it comes to Big Brother.  The same goes for Survivor.  Any mention of Reem (if I see her name mentioned) will automatically get a laugh emoji from me.  Reem, Shambo, Cao Boi, Jimmy T. are all laugh triggers for me.

7 hours ago, blackwing said:

And I am truly shocked that he is only 48 years old. I get that the beard makes him look older but still, he easily looks 58. 

As I was saying previously I am bad when it comes to guess ages.  I thought for sure Dan was mid-to late 50's, possibly early 60's. 

[azshadowwalker]

On 12/11/2019 at 7:13 PM, Haleth said:

This whole season has been a disaster.  Is this a jump the shark moment?

If Ghandia and Ted didn't do it, and Hatch and Sue didn't either, I have my doubts. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Who gives a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut what that sack of shit Varner thinks of the situation?

I will now try to work "Who gives a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut" into my every day conversations. Thank you.

[fishcakes]

8 hours ago, BK1978 said:

Honestly, in a show that tends to not cast many people over the age of 35, 41 would make her old.  Not in real life mind you (unless we are living in ancient Rome) but for the show, yes she is considered an "older woman". 

I haven't been paying attention to this line of conversation because I was too enraged by other matters, but are people saying they think Elaine looks old? To me, she looks about average for her age. And when she was in the water and not wearing that dumb cap, she looked very pretty. Maybe she doesn't care about her appearance that much, but the hat is not doing her any favors. The show does have a skewed version of what's old though. In Panama, they initially had four tribes: younger men, younger women, older men, older women, and Cirie, at age 36, was on the older women tribe. She was hilariously and understandably, "um, Jeff, I think there's been a mistake," about it.

8 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

If Ghandia and Ted didn't do it, and Hatch and Sue didn't either, I have my doubts.

There absolutely should have been changes after the incident with Sue and Hatch. At the very minimum, TPTB should have banned people walking around naked for no reason. But a few people have mentioned Ghandia and Ted and that situation was different. That was at least plausibly an honest mistake on Ted's part, he and Ghandia talked it out, he apologized, and he was the one who said they should no longer sleep next to each other or hug each other all the time and she agreed. But then Ghandia went to Helen and Jan and told them what happened, omitting the part where she and Ted talked. At the reunion show, Ghandia admitted that she had played up the incident as a strategy, it backfired, and she said she was sorry (not to Ted, but just sort of a general, "I was wrong" thing). I don't think Ted was necessarily as innocent as he claims, but I also don't think Ghandia was as offended or frightened as she claimed. That one was just sort of ugly on everyone's part.

I believe TPTB will make policy changes after this season and treat conduct like Dan's the same way they do other physical assaults and have it result in immediate ejection. From what I've read, it sounds like they already went part of the way toward this with Season 40 and that was before they knew how much blowback there would be when 39 aired (they have been historically and notoriously clueless in anticipating audience outrage when players act like assholes). So I think they'll probably lay down the law in subsequent seasons, but it might be too late. People are really disgusted with how they handled this, and given that the show is trending in the direction of casting increasingly abusive players, I see them losing a lot of their audience as of now. I know that I'm in it to the bitter end, but that's probably the minority position.

[gingerella]

18 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

But regarding Dan, what really matters is the other person involved in the incident. Presumably that crew member/producer complained about what Dan did. It doesn't matter who supports Dan if the person he allegedly touched does not.

What's really fucked up about all of this is that it took a crew member/producer to get him booted. Apparently the contestants safety isn't important enough for CBS or Survivor Producers to intervene, only if something happens to one of the staff. Fuck that shit, and fuck this show. I've lost all respect for Peachy at this point.

[fishcakes]

As badly as they handled this, I don't believe they ejected Dan because it was a crew member. If he had suddenly started groping Lauren again, I think it would have been enough to get him kicked out. This seems pretty typical of the way harassment complaints are handled everywhere. The first person who complains gets ignored (or maybe there's a bullshit warning to the offender), but no real action is taken until there's at least one more person on the record as having been victimized. The first victim can and usually is be dismissed as a mistake or a misinterpretation; with subsequent victims, there's an established pattern of behavior. It's not like the people in charge suddenly believe it happened; it's more that they know their chances of being held liable for doing nothing just increased.

The difference here is that they had all of Dan's gross behavior on video so they could have done something as early as in the first three days, and they chose not to. But the pattern of not doing something about it until they feel they can no longer sweep it under the rug is sadly pretty typical.

[phlebas]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

As badly as they handled this, I don't believe they ejected Dan because it was a crew member. If he had suddenly started groping Lauren again, I think it would have been enough to get him kicked out. This seems pretty typical of the way harassment complaints are handled everywhere. The first person who complains gets ignored (or maybe there's a bullshit warning to the offender), but no real action is taken until there's at least one more person on the record as having been victimized. The first victim can and usually is be dismissed as a mistake or a misinterpretation; with subsequent victims, there's an established pattern of behavior. It's not like the people in charge suddenly believe it happened; it's more that they know their chances of being held liable for doing nothing just increased.

The difference here is that they had all of Dan's gross behavior on video so they could have done something as early as in the first three days, and they chose not to. But the pattern of not doing something about it until they feel they can no longer sweep it under the rug is sadly pretty typical.

After they saw the social media reaction to the merge episode, CBS must have gotten extremely stressed over what they knew was coming but couldn't change.

And even with all this time to prep, I expect them to botch it at the reunion.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, gingerella said:

What's really fucked up about all of this is that it took a crew member/producer to get him booted. Apparently the contestants safety isn't important enough for CBS or Survivor Producers to intervene, only if something happens to one of the staff. Fuck that shit, and fuck this show. I've lost all respect for Peachy at this point.

Not to disagree with any of this, but I also think one other consideration was that the crew member wasn't in the middle of a game for a million dollars or requesting that they let it slide. 

The powers that be may have been afraid that removing Dan against the wishes of the cast would have brought on lawsuits from people who felt the removal caused "everybody to hate me"  like Janet did, or from people who were upset that a carefully nurtured alliance member was now gone (like Tommy felt when Dan finally was removed.)

The outrage we feel watching this go down may not be shared by the ones in the game who are focused on the million.  I think they should have removed Dan within the first few days before strong alliances were made and with no explanation to the rest (other than he had to get home)  so that no one would be blamed for his ouster.  Later on I'm not sure what they should have done.

[Lsk02]

2 hours ago, phlebas said:

And even with all this time to prep, I expect them to botch it at the reunion.

I have a feeling everything said will be very calculated and edited because of the potential lawsuits out there. 

[meatball77]

I think they're going to spend a lot of time at the reunion talking to Karishma.  Use her bullying and argue about it to take up time and then act like they're being woke because they acknowledged that sexual harassment exists.

I'd actually have a bit of respect if they admitted that they can't discuss things because of a lawsuit.

There's no way the top four would boycott the finale.  I'm sure they don't get their money if they don't show up to the finale.

[BK1978]

12 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I haven't been paying attention to this line of conversation because I was too enraged by other matters, but are people saying they think Elaine looks old? To me, she looks about average for her age. And when she was in the water and not wearing that dumb cap, she looked very pretty. Maybe she doesn't care about her appearance that much, but the hat is not doing her any favors. The show does have a skewed version of what's old though. In Panama, they initially had four tribes: younger men, younger women, older men, older women, and Cirie, at age 36, was on the older women tribe. She was hilariously and understandably, "um, Jeff, I think there's been a mistake," about it.

I was saying how she and I are the same age but I thought she looked older.  But as I pointed out I am very bad at guessing how old people are.  I will say this though, I hardly ever watch Ponderosa videos but Elaine's popped up in my recommendation list on YouTube so I decided to watch it, what I noticed was without the hat she does look younger.  So I think you hit the nail on the head.

Edited December 15, 2019 by BK1978
Because I fail at the English language on a regular basis...

[azshadowwalker]

10 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I haven't been paying attention to this line of conversation because I was too enraged by other matters, but are people saying they think Elaine looks old? To me, she looks about average for her age. And when she was in the water and not wearing that dumb cap, she looked very pretty. Maybe she doesn't care about her appearance that much, but the hat is not doing her any favors. The show does have a skewed version of what's old though. In Panama, they initially had four tribes: younger men, younger women, older men, older women, and Cirie, at age 36, was on the older women tribe. She was hilariously and understandably, "um, Jeff, I think there's been a mistake," about it.

There absolutely should have been changes after the incident with Sue and Hatch. At the very minimum, TPTB should have banned people walking around naked for no reason. But a few people have mentioned Ghandia and Ted and that situation was different. That was at least plausibly an honest mistake on Ted's part, he and Ghandia talked it out, he apologized, and he was the one who said they should no longer sleep next to each other or hug each other all the time and she agreed. But then Ghandia went to Helen and Jan and told them what happened, omitting the part where she and Ted talked. At the reunion show, Ghandia admitted that she had played up the incident as a strategy, it backfired, and she said she was sorry (not to Ted, but just sort of a general, "I was wrong" thing). I don't think Ted was necessarily as innocent as he claims, but I also don't think Ghandia was as offended or frightened as she claimed. That one was just sort of ugly on everyone's part.

With everyone supporting Ted, what choice did Ghandia have but to let him off the hook? Just think about how everyone supported Dan and not Kellee in 2019. Now think of everyone supporting Ted in pre-MeToo era and where it put her. Dan was contrite to Kellee initially, too. But, hey, it's easier not to see just how shitty the Ted and Ghandia situation was because it covers for all of the those who kept their mouths shut at that time and vilified her so they could watch the show with a clear conscience. 

I mean, just look at the way the situations played out. Ghandia was worried enough about being touched that she brought it up with Ted, but it's being dismissed as "she wasn't really that bothered by it." Kellee was worried about Dan enough that she brought it up with him. There is literally no difference in how the two women handled unwanted touching, but for some reason it's a problem now, but not then. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by azshadowwalker

[Al Herkimer]

Ted was 150-200% happy with his wife.

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, Al Herkimer said:

Ted was 150-200% happy with his wife.

Only people in unhappy marriages commit sexual harassment?

[Nashville]

On 12/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, 30 Helens said:

The Hollywood Reporter has a good article that summarizes what many of us are thinking.  
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fien-print/survivor-39-dan-kellee-critics-notebook-1262266

This article does a pretty good job of summing up many of my feelings about this season - unfortunately.

On 12/13/2019 at 3:54 PM, 30 Helens said:

I’m really angry at CBS and all the producers involved in this trainwreck: partly because of the way they handled this situation, but mostly because they may, in fact, have killed my favorite show. 

IMHO the key failing of this season is that TPTB, by virtue of their (mis-)handling of the situation, totally and absolutely broke the fourth wall.  Production repeatedly failed in its long-standing role as a quasi-unbiased observer of the tribal goings-on - first by not acting when it should, then by acting only once the toxicity of the situation had spread beyond the tribal realm to its own crew.  This course of action AND inaction has now firmly established Production to even the most casual of viewers as an unqualified influencer of the game’s outcome - and I don’t know if it’s possible for them to recover from that.

7 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

I have a feeling everything said will be very calculated and edited because of the potential lawsuits out there. 

With the possible exception of the F3 being present when Peachy pops the top of the urn, I would not be a bit surprised if the vast majority of this season’s Finale consists of little more than Probst on a barstool trying to mansplain away all of Production’s missteps in this debacle of a season - after which, no doubt, both CBS and Survivor Productions will both slap each other on the back and congratulate each other on how wonderfully transparent they’ve been on the subject.  😞 

Oh, and PS: Anybody thinking any F3 resulting from this season are going to take a knee in support of DAN...? Please give me a shout off-line. I know of a dandy bargain-priced bridge in Brooklyn you might consider an exciting investment opportunity....  😛 

[Rachel RSL]

6 hours ago, simplyme said:

Only people in unhappy marriages commit sexual harassment?

Oh, definitely not! I think @Al Herkimer was wryly pointing out one of the excuses Ted gave as to why he couldn’t possibly have done what Ghandia claimed he did. I believe another one of his excuses was “I’m not even attracted to you!!” 🙄

[BigRedCheese]

I think production and Jeff were certain that the game would police itself, Janet gathered her posse, Kellee had two idols, and I think they were positive she would play one of them. Dan would be gone, and that would be the metoo moment for the show they could crow about. When Kellee didn't play an idol, they were caught flat footed.

Dan's not the first person they didn't pull from the game when I thought they should have, I felt strongly that Will should have been pulled from the game, I still think that Second Chances was a way to quickly change the subject from that, delaying the season they already had in the can. I even think a case can be made for removing Brandon Hantz in his first season for his beyond creepy fixation on Mikayla.

All that being said, I hope this isn't the end of Survivor, I don't think they are bad people, and I think (hope) they will learn from this.

[fishcakes]

11 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

With everyone supporting Ted, what choice did Ghandia have but to let him off the hook? Just think about how everyone supported Dan and not Kellee in 2019. Now think of everyone supporting Ted in pre-MeToo era and where it put her. Dan was contrite to Kellee initially, too. But, hey, it's easier not to see just how shitty the Ted and Ghandia situation was because it covers for all of the those who kept their mouths shut at that time and vilified her so they could watch the show with a clear conscience. 

I mean, just look at the way the situations played out. Ghandia was worried enough about being touched that she brought it up with Ted, but it's being dismissed as "she wasn't really that bothered by it." Kellee was worried about Dan enough that she brought it up with him. There is literally no difference in how the two women handled unwanted touching, but for some reason it's a problem now, but not then. 

No one was supporting Ted; at most, they had no opinion. Brian talked to Helen about it, but simply reported what Ted said to him, and Helen was supporting Ghandia and said she believed her. No one else even had a chance to weigh in because it was all talked out between Ted and Ghandia and amongst the entire tribe (and the two very puzzled Thai Red Berets) within a day or two. And there is a lot of difference between Ghandia/Ted and Kellee/Dan. Once the situation arose between Ghandia and Ted, it was Ted who said he didn't want them sleeping near each other or continuing to be as affectionate as they mutually had been up to that point, and he never went near her again. With Dan and Kellee, Kellee said she didn't want him to touch her and he continued to do it up until she was voted out weeks later. I did say I don't think Ghandia was as offended or frightened as she claimed, but I base that on what she said at the reunion, where she admitted that she was simply using the incident as a game strategy. My statement wasn't a kneejerk, "women are liars" reaction, and I think my posts on the Kellee/Dan situation demonstrate that that would never be my reaction.

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Oh, definitely not! I think @Al Herkimer was wryly pointing out one of the excuses Ted gave as to why he couldn’t possibly have done what Ghandia claimed he did. I believe another one of his excuses was “I’m not even attracted to you!!” 🙄

To be fair, he never said he didn't do it. He owned up right away, apologized, and never did anything remotely like it to her or anyone else again. The only thing he denied was when she said he was trying to "get with her," which I believe. I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to have sex with her right there in the cave with everyone else sleeping three feet away. But on a lighter note, the 150 to 200% in love with my wife thing was always so funny to me mainly because, aside from the weird quantification, he later said something about how they had to give, like, 1000% in the challenges. So challenges > wife, I guess.

Edited December 15, 2019 by fishcakes

[Rachel RSL]

Oh I completely agree. I would never put Ted in the same category as Dan. Not even close for the reasons you mentioned. (I also remember Ghandia’s comment about Ted and how she was going to “punch his ass in the eye” which always makes me laugh.)

[simplyme]

5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Oh, definitely not! I think @Al Herkimer was wryly pointing out one of the excuses Ted gave as to why he couldn’t possibly have done what Ghandia claimed he did. I believe another one of his excuses was “I’m not even attracted to you!!” 🙄

Doh! *facepalm* My bad. There are something like four Survivor seasons I haven't seen. Take a wild guess what one of them is. 🤦‍♀️ Thank you for explaining.

Knowing that changes what @Al Herkimer wrote to really funny...

[Steph Sometimes]

I went on the Facebook Survivor page (which is always interesting) and there are a number of people saying they're rooting for Dean. Dean! I'm missing something right?

I keep thinking about the premiere and how female-focused it (and the next episode or two) seemed. So many of the first confessionals were women (it really stuck out to me that we heard from so many of them before we even heard from a guy) and we were given several scenes of women starting fire and getting idols, etc. I couldn't imagine we wouldn't be getting a woman winner. But now I'm wondering if it's just edited that positive way because of all that's happened, and one of the two guys wins. I honestly am assuming the two guys are in the final 3. And those two guys aren't anything great.

She hasn't been my favorite this season, but I'm rooting for Lauren. if Janet's out early

Edited December 15, 2019 by Steph Sometimes

[Rachel RSL]

13 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I went on the Facebook Survivor page (which is always interesting) and there is a number of people saying they're rooting for Dean. Dean! I'm missing something right?

I feel the same way. A friend of mine told me last week that Dean is her favourite and I was like whaaaaaa??

[enoughcats]

On 12/13/2019 at 3:13 PM, Zuleikha said:

but I'm surprised no one has brought up the full on wrestling match over an idol clue that happened one season between two female contestants.

 It's not just the competition when two folks spy an idol.  Something else has been missing for a while now.

The team challenges that are wrestling/rasslin'/hand to hand combat that are either team vs. team or contestant vs. contestant.  Both have had lots of unfriendly contacts, lots of holding contestants back by grabbing the bottoms of their outfits (remember the blurred out efforts of the editors),  and physical contact required of the contestants.

I don't remember seeing a mud match in a long time. 

[SVNBob]

On 12/12/2019 at 12:15 AM, 30 Helens said:

Thank God for Rob and Sandra. This season would have been lost without them.  But as for the cooking, twenty bucks says that was staged for the camera.  Fiji Doordash dropped that food off 10 minutes before.

He's Italian; he cooks.

On 12/12/2019 at 6:25 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Karishma did clean up nice for jury duty.

Very Bollywood.  And not unsurprising she did so, given her profession.

On 12/12/2019 at 2:50 PM, TaraS1 said:

Why does Sandra never get to give the dumb "lesson"??  

She did give Vince stealth training for his test.  And that fit into her wheelhouse given her background in the US Army.  But as for being the main "host" on IotI...she's letting Rob do it.  They could alternate, or have her be the main (since she is the Queen who has stayed Queen), but it's probably too cheesy for her.

On 12/13/2019 at 11:07 AM, ProfCrash said:

Brandon was "voted out of the game" at an impromptu tribal council because he was dangerously close to punching Philip. I long suspected that Production took it to the BS fake Tribal, complete with a vote, because they could not pull Brandon, in their minds, until he threw a punch but they all knew it was coming. Probst stood there on the beach with his arm around Brandon, giving him comforting massages and the occasional squeeze, to keep Brandon from going after Philip. It was stupid but the line in the sand was physical violence. So they came up with a charade to make Brandon leave before the violence occurred, most likely knowing he was going to be voted out any way.

Recent tweets from Corrine are saying that that whole scenario was indeed fabricated and that the only part in it that was the cast's idea was to forfeit the challenge immediately.

However, that was in a response to a tweet about Dan being the "first person removed from the game" from the bandy-legged troll, and I have yet to see anything from anyone else on that season that confirms Corrine's story.

In other news, a Secret Scene about Dean and his shoes.  Unfortunately, it doesn't show him finding them afterwards.

[Ms Blue Jay]

23 hours ago, fishcakes said:

To be fair, he never said he didn't do it. He owned up right away, apologized, and never did anything remotely like it to her or anyone else again. The only thing he denied was when she said he was trying to "get with her," which I believe. I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to have sex with her right there in the cave with everyone else sleeping three feet away. But on a lighter note, the 150 to 200% in love with my wife thing was always so funny to me mainly because, aside from the weird quantification, he later said something about how they had to give, like, 1000% in the challenges. So challenges > wife, I guess.

🤣  I never watched this season.  (Cue the choruses of everyone saying "DON'T DO IT.").  But this percentages shit is so funny to me.  I talk like this too, but I never go above 100%!  Hahhahahahaha.  Okay fine I've definitely said 1000%  but I would never even think to go to 150-200.  LOL

Edited December 16, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[albinerhawk]

On 12/15/2019 at 4:44 PM, Steph Sometimes said:

I went on the Facebook Survivor page (which is always interesting) and there are a number of people saying they're rooting for Dean. Dean! I'm missing something right?

I keep thinking about the premiere and how female-focused it (and the next episode or two) seemed. So many of the first confessionals were women (it really stuck out to me that we heard from so many of them before we even heard from a guy) and we were given several scenes of women starting fire and getting idols, etc. I couldn't imagine we wouldn't be getting a woman winner. But now I'm wondering if it's just edited that positive way because of all that's happened, and one of the two guys wins. I honestly am assuming the two guys are in the final 3. And those two guys aren't anything great.

She hasn't been my favorite this season, but I'm rooting for Lauren. if Janet's out early

I also recall that this season was marketed as a season with a lot of strong women on it. 
 

Just saw this article about new changes CBS is implementing on Survivor. Seems rather vague. Not sure what they mean by biases. 
 

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/survivor-cbs-policy-change-dan-spilo-alleged-misconduct-1203446825/

[EllenB]

2 hours ago, albinerhawk said:

Just saw this article about new changes CBS is implementing on Survivor. Seems rather vague. Not sure what they mean by biases. 

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/survivor-cbs-policy-change-dan-spilo-alleged-misconduct-1203446825/

That sounds like the corporate language used when one or more lawsuits are lurking right outside the door.