S04.E06: A Chip Driver Mystery

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

One of the new residents creates a division in the ranks.

Original air date: 10/31/19

[jmonique]

I looked forward to the show all week, and ... meh.

I really got nothing more than that right now. Just: Meh.

[Yokosmom]

I agree. I just don’t know where they are going with this season. I was expecting some dramatic twist at the end of the episode. I did like the scene with Jason and Chidi dancing. I don’t remember Jason telling Chidi that he wasn’t a monk. Was that shown earlier?

Edited November 1, 2019 by Yokosmom

[Melina22]

7 minutes ago, jmonique said:

l looked forward to the show all week, and ... meh.

I really got nothing more than that right now. Just: Meh.

My feelings exactly. It's almost a bit shocking. Other than Jason and Chidi dancing, which made me smile... nothing. It's like there was almost nothing driving the story. Odd. 

[JessDVD]

That was excruciating, which is a word I never thought I'd use to describe this show. 

I did laugh more than necessary at the b-b-bad to the bone lines. But it went downhill after that. I don't get where they're going with Brent. Everyone else has redeeming qualities that make them sympathetic but Brent is just every negative stereotype of older white man that the writers can possibly think of with no nuance. I find it so lame that the show that made me root for Eleanor despite her being an absolutely horrible person, is writing a character so one-dimensional.

I will continue to hold onto hope that they're going somewhere with it. At least last week's was really good. 

[BobH]

I have to admit, I was expecting Brent or one of the other humans to have a “Holy mother forking shirtballs.  This is the Bad Place” moment.  I still think that might be where we’re headed for the third act twist of season.

not sure how I feel about this one.  I think it’ll depend on whether freeing Bad Janet has some payoff later in the series.

Edited November 1, 2019 by BobH

[EyewatchTV211]

5 minutes ago, Yokosmom said:

I agree. I just don’t know where they are going with this season. I was expecting some dramatic twist at the end of the episode. I did like the scene with Jason and Chidi dancing. I don’t remember Jason telling Chidi that he wasn’t a monk. Was that shown earlier?

Yes, they showed this. When Chidi was enjoying The Good Place too much and not motivated to get better/teach ethics, they realized he needed to be tortured again by having to keep that same secret. So Jason came out to him. Remember the ep where he made his bud hole in Chidi's place and Chidi barely opened the door when Eleanor and Michael came to visit?

[Paloma]

7 minutes ago, BobH said:

not sure how I feel about this one.  I think it’ll depend on whether freeing Bad Janet has some payoff later in the series.

Maybe the book that Michael gave her when he freed her is "Chekov's" book and will play an important role in how things end.

[phalange]

I’m glad Eleanor and Michael realized that Simone is right. You can’t coddle racists and misogynists like Brent. And Chidi punching him was so satisfying. I honestly don’t expect that Brent will change because people like him often don’t. And tbh, I’m not sure what Simone is really supposed to be improving on, since other than not believing anything was real at first, she hasn’t really done anything terribly bad. 

I liked Michael’s message to Bad Janet about trying to be a little better today than you were yesterday. The book he gave her: is that what Michael and Janet were writing last season when the humans were on Earth? Surely it’ll come into play again; Bad Janet said no one will read it, so I’m guessing that means someone will. 

[Dots And Stripes]

I liked that there was a different narrative structure. I also appreciated that Michael articulated something that the show has been getting at for a while: trying to do the right thing matters.

My biggest hang up with the experiment is the amount of lying and deception needed. It’s hard to imagine that proving humans are good (or at least can be good if they try) requires so many lies.

[Amarsir]

I hope they're going somewhere really good with Brent. I mean I trust that they are, but it's taking a long time and he's just more unlikable than he is funny. 

I do think the conclusion they're approaching makes inherent sense. If someone went their whole life getting unearned praise, actually earning some could be a new experience for them. It's also notable that he made Chidi more impulsive and is at least enabling Simone to confront her own confrontational nature. So maybe there's some good through adversity too.

But for halfway through the final season they're taking a lot of time on this. We get who Brent is already and he hasn't changed in 6 episodes.

[jmonique]

Introducing the new humans and reintroducing Simone has derailed the show for me so far. I'm invested in Team Cockroach, not Brent, the Arrogant Cis White Male.

And now they've done that Mike Schur thing, and not only did we skim past the ramifications of Eleanor getting ALL her memories back and Tahani learning she and Jason were once in love (yeah, I said it, fight me), but we're five months into Chidi and Simone being together. We've skimmed right past Eleanor actually dealing with that, so ... what? So we could get 30 minutes of Brent being self-involved again, racist again, misogynistic again, and now butt hurt?

I'm sure this will lead somewhere ... and then we'll finally get there, and the show will go on Thanksgiving hiatus. But hey! We got another Bad Janet fart joke, right?

[Blakeston]

I stand by what I said when the Brent character was first introduced - he's mostly a tool for the writers to vent about the kind of person they hate the most (as opposed to being the right choice for the show).

Admittedly, they might be headed somewhere amazing with this character, but thus far it's been exactly what I expected. 

The writers have been kind of obsessed with showing us how much they hate sexist jerks from the beginning of the series. But in the past, they often found ways to successfully incorporate it into the show - like the Bad Place demons being fratboy douchebag types.

That was funny. Brent isn't.

[tennisgurl]

"Thats why they're called Baby Boomers. You prick their fragile egos just a bit, and boom! They become babies."

Not this shows best effort to be honest, especially after such a great episode last week. Probably do to the overuse of Brent, who is less of a character and more of an avatar of everything the writers hate in a person. I mean, people like Brent totally exist, and I get why the Bad Place sent him, as he will drive everyone up the wall, but he isnt interesting or particularly funny, and episodes featuring a lot of him are usually boring. With our original cockroaches, while they all had serious personality flaws, they came from a real place, and underneath the jokes, they felt like real people, and we could understand how they got to be how they are. They dont seem to be doing that with Brent, he is just an uber privileged, racist, sexist old white guy who exists to be awful. Even Elanor, who was an absolute garbage fire, still got some depth pretty quickly. I mean, I trust these writers, but they better be coming up with something really good with him. Of course, his worst sin is that he is boring! So very boring!

Anyway, I did like Michael talking to Bad Janet and the episode having a different structure, and the lesson that Michael got out of it, that if your just a little better than you were yesterday than thats something to be proud of. And with Michael giving Bad Janet the book on humans, and her actually looking like he was getting through to her for a second, I wonder if this will continue the theme that demons and Bad Place denizens might be capable of self improvement, just like humans. I hope that it continues through the season, it would be interesting if the cockroaches had a whole contingent of defected demons joining them.

Jason and Chidi really made the episode.

[Cerulean]

I’m wondering if Brent is “too bad to be true”. If the first demon was always intended to be a plant, maybe there was a long plan? Although, presumably Gen would have noticed something, as an argument against. 
Once Tahani and John really were friends, he was humanized. Would Brent really be so narcissistic to have found no one? He had so many “bro’s” he listed. 
I did find it funny that he was cheating at golf!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Maybe all the Bad Janets are linked and any positive changes to this one will spread like a virus to the others.

[possibilities]

Bad Janet actually having a good reason to be cynical and consider humans to be horrible was a surprise to me. 

Did I imagine it, or did "bitch" actually get said? I thought (1) that's the kind of word that gets converted (batch, maybe) (like fork or shirtball), and (2) it's NBC during prime time. Either my mind autocorrected, or there's something happening with the show that made it possible for Simone's words to get past the "Good Place" filter.

[GaT]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Other than Jason and Chidi dancing, which made me smile... nothing. It's like there was almost nothing driving the story. Odd. 

When you think how fast the first season moved, I think they've used up all their ideas & they're just trying to hold on until the end.

[bros402]

4 hours ago, phalange said:

I’m glad Eleanor and Michael realized that Simone is right. You can’t coddle racists and misogynists like Brent. And Chidi punching him was so satisfying. I honestly don’t expect that Brent will change because people like him often don’t. And tbh, I’m not sure what Simone is really supposed to be improving on, since other than not believing anything was real at first, she hasn’t really done anything terribly bad. 

I liked Michael’s message to Bad Janet about trying to be a little better today than you were yesterday. The book he gave her: is that what Michael and Janet were writing last season when the humans were on Earth? Surely it’ll come into play again; Bad Janet said no one will read it, so I’m guessing that means someone will. 

Chidi punching Brent felt so good.

I think Brent might end up not changing and that will be a conclusion of the experiment - that some people do need the Bad Place.

I don't know what Simone has to improve on, but it might be that she judges books by their covers. In some cases, literally.

58 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Bad Janet actually having a good reason to be cynical and consider humans to be horrible was a surprise to me. 

Did I imagine it, or did "bitch" actually get said? I thought (1) that's the kind of word that gets converted (batch, maybe) (like fork or shirtball), and (2) it's NBC during prime time. Either my mind autocorrected, or there's something happening with the show that made it possible for Simone's words to get past the "Good Place" filter.

Bench was said, it just sounded like bitch with her accent

[Harvey]

I am so tired of the Bad Blace's inane type of humor, which is always some very childish level of insult and a fart noise. It was cute in the first 2 seasons, now it's just exhausting. And lazy writing, they don't let their characters grow. It's good this is the final season, I never saw a show run out of steam as fast as this one. Of course it's because they refuse to let a big chunk of their characters grow with all those resets.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I wasn't feeling this episode, sadly.  I just find Brent (and to extent John) tiresome and the issue is that while the show has usually been known for refreshingly moving at a breakneck speed, this is one of the few times where it feels like things are dragging things out and even some padding is going on.  I was lenient at first, because I really thought this concept was going to be dropped quickly once another big twist kicks in, but instead Team Cockroach is still stuck dealing with trying to reform these tool-bags, and its annoying.  It really does feel like Brent in particular is less of a character and more of everything the writers hate about the atypical, arrogant, over-privileged, sexist, racist white men out there, but I felt like they more or less did that with both Trevor and Shawn with much better results thanks to better writing (and, nothing against the actor here, but he's no Adam Scott or Marc Evan Jackson.)

At least it did all ended with Simone pretty much being proven right and not only getting to watch Tahani go off on his ass, but Chidi punching him was great to watch as well.  I'll give them that!

I am curious to see if Michael actually did make any headway with Bad Janet.

There were still some good funny bits at least, like Eleanor creating a "Hottest Savior Of The Week" award that everyone but Michael has won, Chidi and Jason's dancing, and Tahani getting offended by Eleanor not understanding her hair reference.

I won't give up hope yet, but I do hope the show starts revving things up for these last episodes.

[Wanda]

I think the last 2/3 episodes are leading to the test being for the original 4 humans and Michael. Tahani and Eleanor have shown great growth. Both are moving away from their selfish instincts to knowing they need to do things for the greater good. Jason was able to control his impulses and help save Janet in the Bad Place, Chidi this episode made a decision to react strongly to Brent without overthinking it first and Michael. Michael for a few episodes now has not on;y shown he has grown from an evil demon, but he is trying to change the mindset of the Bad Place demons themselves, which requires facing his internal demon. Taken in that context, even an episode like tonights’ isnt just filler because Michael is releasing Bad Janet after trying to give her some knowledge. That’s huge progress from the being who was still gleefully torturing Chidi in the Trolley Problem 2 seasons ago.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, phalange said:

And tbh, I’m not sure what Simone is really supposed to be improving on, since other than not believing anything was real at first, she hasn’t really done anything terribly bad. 

She’s not supposed to be improving in the same way the others are. She’s the one that best proves Michael’s point that people are better than their point totals indicate because of unintended consequences. She was only chosen because of her potential to upset Chidi and Eleanor. 

[Harvey]

I am curious to see when will that point counter person come into play who has been in that traingle cocoon in their living room since episode 1.  There must be some use to him at some point if they put him there.

[LBS]

Oh I loved this episode!  It was a 'quieter' episode than most and I enjoyed the introspective narrative between Michael and Bad Janet about humanity.   I thought it bookend nicely to Simone's exasperation at the end with Eleanor.  Why indeed do we have to forgive those who aren't exactly asking for forgiveness.  Why do the good people have to turn the other  cheek in order to be considered good.    It also hearkens back to previous episodes that touched on that maybe some people aren't redeemable and that is an uncomfortable concept for a lot of people.  We all want to believe that even the worst people can be humanized so to be speak and it's scary to think that even in the Good Place they can't.   I also appreciated an episode that wasn't full bang on special effects, twists, and puns.  I actually paid more attention to the dialogue and I can't wait to re-watch. 

[whiporee]

I'm in the minority because I liked this a lot. There's a lot of nuance going -- I'm not sure the writers are dong it intentionally, but there's some really neat stuff. 

I se why Simone's in the Bad Place. She judges other people rather harshly, even if the person she's judging is someone like Brent.

Who, honestly doesn't seem to be terrible. He's an asshole and someone we'd like to avoid, but he's a product of his circumstance. Just like Tahani, or Eleanor, or even Simone. The guy was raised with a sense of privilege, and like Eleanor, I'm seeing growth in him. it was just a moment, but he was genuinely devastated when he realized no one liked his book. He accomplished something, and he was mocked and insulted for it. In addition, it's fiction -- he didn't use their names, and if he used them as archetypes for his novel, there's nothing wrong with that. it may have been stupid, or sexist or racist -- though I do think we're getting pretty deep into the weeds when we're talking about this stuff in amateur fiction. There's a degree of condescending smugness from Team Cockroach that i hope proves consequential, and there's a degree of condescending smugness from the writers' room if it doesn't. 

Michael's tone when talking to Bad Janet was amazing. This Danson fellow can really act. 

[RainbowBrite]

This doesn't feel like the same show as seasons 1 and 2 to me, although I can't really verbalize why. It just doesn't have the magic spark that it did before.

I totally agreed with everything Simone said about Brent but I am not invested in either of them. Every time John comes on screen I prepare to be annoyed. I miss the "bottle episode" feeling of the earlier seasons...the same core group, dealing with tertiary characters like Shawn and Gen. 

[TaraS1]

That was such a strange episode, particularly the way it just kinda ended. Something even seemed off with the way Bad Janet was being played.  

And I 100% thought Brent said bitch lol

[manticoraus]

12 hours ago, JessDVD said:

That was excruciating, which is a word I never thought I'd use to describe this show. 

I did laugh more than necessary at the b-b-bad to the bone lines.   it went downhill after that. I don't get where they're going with Brent. Everyone else has redeeming qualities that make them sympathetic but Brent is just every negative stereotype of older white man that the writers can possibly think of with no nuance. I find it so lame that the show that made me root for Eleanor despite her being an absolutely horrible person, is writing a character so one-dimensional.

I will continue to hold onto hope that they're going somewhere with it. At least last week's was really good. 

Brent is basically Eleanor only without being female and without the supposed justification of the Brents of the world existing in order to make it so Eleanor thinks she should  act the way she does.

It doesn't help that he lacks the self-awareness though part of the issue is that he's never been attributed something that he knows he didn't do. It doesn't help that he went from being effectively one of the more envied and admired people in a Social Circle two men getting rewarded with heaven. There have been hints that he has issues his inability to accept failure his line about his father in his book as well as his want to be reunited with his friends. And honestly he's no worse than Jason or tahani in that regard

 also if I made the weird classism that underlined the good place the show as a whole kind of comes to a head with a character. After all he's effectively getting Less in death than he did in life. You already lived a life of idle material non scarcity. Only now he has less social privilege and less friends and he's expected to act even better and accomplish more outside of what he's already done. And when we might look our noses down on him inheriting well that doesn't change the fact that it's true that's did in fact work for a living you do actually have to work to maintain a business even for marginal gains.

Moreover there was plenty of criticism that they could give that would have actually helped him and improve as a writer without taking the fact that they actually read the book and make it all about that. For instance if they had just insisted that him booking them for consistent positive praise without letting them make their own judgments that would have been one thing. But as it is seems the reason we're supposed to you him evil is because all of them Envy what he had in life. Which is just the reason he would need to ignore anything that they advise

Edited November 1, 2019 by manticoraus
Addendum

[RainbowBrite]

25 minutes ago, TaraS1 said:

That was such a strange episode, particularly the way it just kinda ended. Something even seemed off with the way Bad Janet was being played.  

And I 100% thought Brent said bitch lol

I'm 99.9% sure he said bitch. It wouldn't be unusual for NBC primetime...Friends was saying it over two decades ago. 

[AnimeMania]

I could watch Bad Janet fart all day, I even (mentally) added a few more every time she sat down.

It was funny that Bad Janet wanted a copy of Brent's book.

I thought it was weird that they let Brent say "damn it", should it have been modified?

[questionfear]

11 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

I'm 99.9% sure he said bitch. It wouldn't be unusual for NBC primetime...Friends was saying it over two decades ago. 

Closed captioning said "bench". 

[Blakeston]

I think Team Cockroach has been kind of stupid with their gameplans for Brent and John. Why let them think they earned a spot in the Good Place with their behavior on earth?

[jmonique]

8 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I think Team Cockroach has been kind of stupid with their gameplans for Brent and John. Why let them think they earned a spot in the Good Place with their behavior on earth?

That. Exactly. 

If Brent were faced with the same situation as Eleanor -- the absolute knowledge that whomever this Brent Norwalk is who went on hunger strikes, and saved orphaned children is not HIM and HE isn't the Brent who's supposed to be there -- he would have likely had a lot more realizations a lot faster.

Instead, they've just spent six months coddling him and playing into his entitlement, and we're nearly halfway through the last season already.

And count me in amongst those who thought there'd be MORE after Janet left. SOMETHING to give us a cliffhanger to make me accept that this was a bridge to SOMETHING more. I get that I'll hopefully eventually look back on the season in its entirety and see where this episode was taking us, but as someone living through it in real time, I repeat: meeeeeeeeeeeeh.

[Bruinsfan]

I definitely heard "bitch" from Brent and was surprised by it in the moment. It made me wonder if the same rules about swearing weren't in play for this experiment in The Medium Place setting. If that was supposed to be "bench" instead, the actor pronounces n like t.

This is the first episode I can recall being mostly bored with. Tahani snapping and giving it to Brent was a highlight, as was Michael's conversation at the end with Bad Janet. But about 90% of the screen time was just meh.

[albinerhawk]

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

I'm in the minority because I liked this a lot. There's a lot of nuance going -- I'm not sure the writers are dong it intentionally, but there's some really neat stuff. 

I se why Simone's in the Bad Place. She judges other people rather harshly, even if the person she's judging is someone like Brent.

Who, honestly doesn't seem to be terrible. He's an asshole and someone we'd like to avoid, but he's a product of his circumstance. Just like Tahani, or Eleanor, or even Simone. The guy was raised with a sense of privilege, and like Eleanor, I'm seeing growth in him. it was just a moment, but he was genuinely devastated when he realized no one liked his book. He accomplished something, and he was mocked and insulted for it. In addition, it's fiction -- he didn't use their names, and if he used them as archetypes for his novel, there's nothing wrong with that. it may have been stupid, or sexist or racist -- though I do think we're getting pretty deep into the weeds when we're talking about this stuff in amateur fiction. There's a degree of condescending smugness from Team Cockroach that i hope proves consequential, and there's a degree of condescending smugness from the writers' room if it doesn't. 

Michael's tone when talking to Bad Janet was amazing. This Danson fellow can really act. 

I agree that this is the point of the episode. It's about being better than you were. Brent's book was an accomplishment he never would have achieved before. This was also evident in the golf game. At the beginning he was using the filter to improve his game. At the end, he's practicing his drive to improve his game without the filter. 

I would like to note that as someone who is for vaccinations that I'm surprised that they called out anti-vaxxers. That's a pretty controversial topic to pick a side on. Wonder if they'll lose viewers.

[Loandbehold]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course, his worst sin is that he is boring! So very boring!

I think the Brent character serves a purpose in the experiment, but so far, he's been too one-note and, as you say, boring.

9 hours ago, bros402 said:

I think Brent might end up not changing and that will be a conclusion of the experiment - that some people do need the Bad Place.

I agree. Brent failing to improve (or only improving a little) doesn't mean the experiment was a failure. It just means that there's a good reason to still have a Bad Place.

9 hours ago, bros402 said:

I don't know what Simone has to improve on, but it might be that she judges books by their covers. In some cases, literally.

Remember that the Bad Place had the pick of the first four subjects. By making Simone one of them, they shook up Team Cockroach. In that sense, Shawn's plan worked. (Someone else made this point upthread, and better than I did.)

I did enjoy the scenes between Michael and Bad Janet. Both such wonderful actors who play off each other really well.

I agree w/ another poster who said that the test is actually for The Soul Squad. Actually, I believe it's for both the four human test subjects as well as our original gang. After all, Eleanor., Tahani, Jason, and Michael are not trying to get the subjects to improve so they can go to the Good Place. They are doing it so humanity will have the chance. And they're suffering trying to accomplish this by running the test. That's altruism. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

I'm 99.9% sure he said bitch. It wouldn't be unusual for NBC primetime...Friends was saying it over two decades ago. 

It was bench. I re-watched. (He physically can't say bitch, anyway.) Everyone reacted to it as though he said "bitch", though.

28 minutes ago, albinerhawk said:

I would like to note that as someone who is for vaccinations that I'm surprised that they called out anti-vaxxers. That's a pretty controversial topic to pick a side on. Wonder if they'll lose viewers.

Well, they won't lose any followers of utilitarianism.

[iMonrey]

Quote

My feelings exactly. It's almost a bit shocking. Other than Jason and Chidi dancing, which made me smile... nothing. It's like there was almost nothing driving the story. Odd. 

I see I am not alone in thinking this episode was really a letdown. I've been struggling with the season as a whole and I keep waiting for some big twist but it's the same week after week. I just don't think the current "experiment" is servicing the main characters very well, and the loss of Eleanor and Chidi's budding relationship has really left a big hole where a lot of the enjoyment used to be.

Quote

Anyway, I did like Michael talking to Bad Janet and the episode having a different structure, and the lesson that Michael got out of it, that if your just a little better than you were yesterday than thats something to be proud of.

It was interesting but I expected something more to come from it. It seemed to be leading up to some big breakthrough in the experiment - and yet . . . nothing. Also, the point of the experiment isn't to prove that Michael can improve and be a better person. It's to prove that that the humans can improve. 

Quote

I think the last 2/3 episodes are leading to the test being for the original 4 humans and Michael.

Except that doesn't make any sense because the original four already showed that they could improve. That's the whole reason the Judge agreed to this experiment. Michael et. al. wanted to prove to her they could repeat that improvement with four new humans. 

[JessDVD]

I heard condescending bench from Brent and I have to say, that is one other line that I laughed at because as much as Brent is awful, I personally find Simone a little one-note also, just not that level of irritating. I don't think I'd have gone as far as bench in my analysis of how she was acting, but condescending isn't unfair IMO. I find Simone to be a shade of Mary Sue - as much as Brent is being written as nothing more than a caricature of white male privilege and this is clearly written to be a bad thing (not that his behavior isn't bad, just that the show isn't trying to spin it otherwise), I feel like Simone tends to be written as, always the one in the right and thus the show wants us to find her to be superior, with not much more dimension than that. It's just not as forceful or irritating as Brent.

Really though, the fact that we're still even having all this conversation about Brent, John, and Simone is indication that the show needs to move us along. We're all still here primarily because of the original 4, Michael and Janet, and I don't want any more episodes where most of it is evaluating Brent's merits or lack thereof. I did kind of feel this way last year with the stuff in Australia, although I hate the writer's hand of Brent more, and I liked the Australia stuff more on a full season 3 re-watch so maybe (PLEASE) with the context of the rest of the season it'll work.

[SomeTameGazelle]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It was interesting but I expected something more to come from it. It seemed to be leading up to some big breakthrough in the experiment - and yet . . . nothing. Also, the point of the experiment isn't to prove that Michael can improve and be a better person. It's to prove that that the humans can improve. 

If all the experiment does is prove or disprove the theory that humans can improve, I will be pretty disappointed. The important thing is whether it leads to a shakeup in how the afterlife operates and what that means. So if it turns out that the most important findings are about Michael and Janet rather than humans I am OK with that.

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I just don't think the current "experiment" is servicing the main characters very well, and the loss of Eleanor and Chidi's budding relationship has really left a big hole where a lot of the enjoyment used to be.

I have been enjoying the little bits we have been getting of Eleanor's feelings for Chidi in previous episodes and I felt this episode was lacking because it didn't really have any. It feels like it is time for Chidi to have a reason to be particularly drawn to Eleanor even though she has told him Simone is his soulmate.

[Enginerd]

2 hours ago, albinerhawk said:

I would like to note that as someone who is for vaccinations that I'm surprised that they called out anti-vaxxers. That's a pretty controversial topic to pick a side on. Wonder if they'll lose viewers.

Is it, though? It's only controversial if you think callously letting children die or be disabled by preventable illnesses is a valid choice. I don't think that's a viewpoint that deserves any oxygen or respect. (I do recognize that some people can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, and that's even more reason the rest of us need to be.) Sure, some people are going to be offended because they insist on being ignorant, but oh well. 

[tennisgurl]

I think it would be interesting if they explored more about how Brent, like everyone else on the show, is a product of their environment. He spent his whole life being coddled and told how much better he is than everyone else who isnt exactly like him and society has just reinforced that message over and over again, to the point where he is remarkably shallow, lacking in empathy, and seemingly lacking a real internal life or any ability to do deal with adversity or even any kind of criticism. In many ways, that could be its own kind of problem. There are a lot of interesting studies done on children of privilege, and how many of them struggle in life when they deal with any kind of real adversity or criticism, because they've had everything handed to them, so they totally fold in any real situation, or suffer when it comes to problem solving skills in the work place, or getting feed back. Instead of coddling him more in the Good Place or teaching him about ethics, or using him as a joke/way to bash people that the writers hate, they should put him in situations where he HAS to take criticism, or HAS to deal with adversity, and maybe he would actually grow a bit. 

I also think they could do more with Simone, because while she is a thousand times more likable than Brent, and I do think that she was right that people cant keep apologizing to crappy people and expecting to always forgive them, I feel like she isnt that deep of a character either. What do we really know about her? What is her family like, what are her worries or flaws? She almost seems so perfect that its hard to get her to really develop. She and Brent are basically the opposites of each other, and yet are actually pretty similar in how they're drawn.

Edited November 3, 2019 by tennisgurl

[SomeTameGazelle]

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

I don't know what Simone has to improve on, but it might be that she judges books by their covers. In some cases, literally.

Brent's book? When she told Tahani it was bad it was based on the content, not the cover.

[Guest]

I can’t say that I loved this episode but I am interested to see where it goes. This is one of the few shows that I try not to judge until the end of season. As much as I love the show this point in every season has dragged a bit before it picks up in the end. 

This episode felt like one that is setting something up that will become more interesting once the whole picture is complete.

I did really enjoy the Chidi, Jason, and John plot and the way the characters went back and forth reading sections from the book. 

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

I don't know what Simone has to improve on, but it might be that she judges books by their covers. In some cases, literally.

I noticed that Michael said the same thing. I like Simone but she doesn’t seem to be very empathetic. 

4 hours ago, jmonique said:

That. Exactly. 

If Brent were faced with the same situation as Eleanor -- the absolute knowledge that whomever this Brent Norwalk is who went on hunger strikes, and saved orphaned children is not HIM and HE isn't the Brent who's supposed to be there -- he would have likely had a lot more realizations a lot faster.

Instead, they've just spent six months coddling him and playing into his entitlement, and we're nearly halfway through the last season already.

I agree. I think the in story explanation for this is the rule that Michael wouldn’t know anything about the subjects ahead of time. They’re wasn’t an opportunity to pre-plan the same cues that told Eleanor and Jason that Michael believed they were someone else. 

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

5 hours ago, jmonique said:

That. Exactly. 

If Brent were faced with the same situation as Eleanor -- the absolute knowledge that whomever this Brent Norwalk is who went on hunger strikes, and saved orphaned children is not HIM and HE isn't the Brent who's supposed to be there -- he would have likely had a lot more realizations a lot faster.

Instead, they've just spent six months coddling him and playing into his entitlement, and we're nearly halfway through the last season already.

I think the issue with using the same set up as they did with Eleanor is that they are supposed to prove that people can change when there isn't anything in it for them.  Its easier to change when you know something good is in it for you - e.g., staying in the good place and not going to the bad place.  They created an issue (which they acknowledged) by telling Brent that there is a better place he could get to.  Michael and Eleanor specifically said that this was just an interim solution because he would be improving for selfish reasons but they at least needed to get the ball rolling and this was the only way they could see to do it.  He initially didn't want anything to do with the group so they needed to find a way to get Brent to spend time with the others so he could eventually start improving for non-selfish reasons.

3 hours ago, albinerhawk said:

I would like to note that as someone who is for vaccinations that I'm surprised that they called out anti-vaxxers. That's a pretty controversial topic to pick a side on. Wonder if they'll lose viewers.

Since this is the last season, does it really matter?  Not that I want them to lose a bunch of viewers but it does seem less risky to alienate some viewers if you aren't going to be around much longer.

[Sarah 103]

16 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I stand by what I said when the Brent character was first introduced - he's mostly a tool for the writers to vent about the kind of person they hate the most (as opposed to being the right choice for the show).

15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Not this shows best effort to be honest, especially after such a great episode last week. Probably do to the overuse of Brent, who is less of a character and more of an avatar of everything the writers hate in a person. I mean, people like Brent totally exist, and I get why the Bad Place sent him, as he will drive everyone up the wall, but he isnt interesting or particularly funny, and episodes featuring a lot of him are usually boring. With our original cockroaches, while they all had serious personality flaws, they came from a real place, and underneath the jokes, they felt like real people, and we could understand how they got to be how they are. They dont seem to be doing that with Brent, he is just an uber privileged, racist, sexist old white guy who exists to be awful.

My theory is that Brent seemed like fun idea when they were in the writers' room, but didn't fully think through having to deal with and write for this character for a full season. He's flat, one-note and doesn't really do much for the show overall.

Eleanor was pretty awful when she was first introduced, but she was also compelling and someone we were rooting for pretty early on in the series. We didn't get that with Brent. 

[cpcathy]

I've had it with Brent. Even the podcast today had him on it, and it dragged. Hopefully the show will do one of its famous resets and we get some serious plot movement soon.

[Paloma]

1 minute ago, Sarah 103 said:

My theory is that Brent seemed like fun idea when they were in the writers' room, but didn't fully think through having to deal with and write for this character for a full season. He's flat, one-note and doesn't really do much for the show overall.

Eleanor was pretty awful when she was first introduced, but she was also compelling and someone we were rooting for pretty early on in the series. We didn't get that with Brent. 

Also, Kristin Bell is a charming actress who can make you care about her character even when the character is annoying or unlikable (Eleanor in the first season; Veronica Mars in the last season). The actor playing Brent...not so much.

[morakot]

I was amused by the book as my writing friends and I had JUST had a conversation about completing your first novel. It's a huge accomplishment but is not likely to be good. And Brent's book was so hysterically not good.