S02.E01: What Have They Done?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/9/2019 at 10:07 PM, chocolatine said:

As much as I hated the Maddie/Joseph affair last season, Ed running into Joseph's wife and her new boobs at the grocery store was all kinds of awesome.

I loved how Ed kept trying to make conversation (“So you were self conscious about your boobs?”) even though he was clearly thinking “LOOK AT HER FACE!”

[answerphone]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

As I said upthread, it looks to me like Jane and Ziggy are living in the apartment that Celeste rented when she was trying to leave Perry last season. I can see someone like Celeste prepaying the rent for a full year, so she's probably having Jane and Ziggy live there for free at least until the lease is up. However, Jane accepting a free apartment wouldn't square with her not cashing the "rape money" checks, so I'm not 100% sure. At any rate, it looks like the same place, with the wall of windows that Celeste was cleaning last season in preparation for the move.

Thanks! I didn't pick up on that at all.

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

  Hide contents

[izabella]

1 hour ago, NurseGiGi said:

I didn't care for the ending last season. The whole scenario was a no brainer and clearly self defence. Bonnie pushed him and he fell. Simple as that. Why lie? I don't think I will watch this season, just seems like an excuse to extend an issue that should have been a non issue to begin with.

I think it's because "Bonnie pushed him and he fell" could easily become "Bonnie pushed him down the stairs deliberately" to a detective.  And since he wasn't hurting Bonnie, and she was nowhere near him but ran to push him, it's harder to claim self-defense. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by izabella

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I think it's because "Bonnie pushed him and he fell" could easily become "Bonnie pushed him down the stairs deliberately" to a detective.  And since he wasn't hurting Bonnie, and she was nowhere near him but ran to push him, it's harder to claim self-defense. 

There would be no need to bring up self-defense. This was a clear-cut case of defense of others.

I can't even fathom a prosecutor going after a woman who pushed a man away from his wife as he was savagely beating her, with multiple well-respected members of the community being able to confirm what they saw.

[SnarkAttack]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:32 PM, Dominii said:

LOL, this!!! Nicole Kidman has to be one of the most beautiful women on the planet!

But Zoe is more sensual, which men respond to.

[Penman61]

I don't think there's much debate that the actual event as depicted wouldn't be prosecuted.

But obstructing justice by lying to law enforcement about the event IS a crime, so that IS a problem for the Monterey 5, if law enforcement chooses to make it one. 

And certainly an investigation into said obstruction can do REPUTATIONAL damage to them, which is probably worse than jail, for Maddy, at least, and probably Renata.

[Lady Calypso]

I agree that Bonnie could have gotten off if they all had been honest. The evidence was clearly in favour of Bonnie killing Perry as self defense. But it seems like maybe Madeline (and, in turn, everyone else) had been too afraid of the social ramifications that Perry's death by Bonnie would cause. I don't think it was necessarily about protecting Bonnie, more like protecting all of them. I could see the thought process being that Perry accidentally falling to his death looks better socially than Bonnie killing Perry to protect Celeste. Even if it was for the greater good, maybe Madeline thought, in the moment of her interview, that it would just look better if it was an accident. 

But, as it turns out, they're still the talk of the town and not in a good way. But now it's too late to go back and reverse the decision, even though Bonnie clearly wants to. 

 However, I could be wrong with my assessment. 

The other stuff in this premiere was decent enough. I'm not so sure about Jane's part yet. I do like that she's hesitant on taking Perry's money for Ziggy, at least for now. But I think it would be beneficial if she does; I assume that'll be for the season finale, when she finally accepts the money.

Madeline's stuff with her daughter is actually fairly intriguing. I like that Madeline and Abigail are both being incredibly stubborn on their viewpoints on college. Abigail isn't understanding that the start-up is less likely to succeed at her age, even if she really wants it to. There's a lot of factors to it and with her getting this job offer in June, that's way too early to commit to a job offer that could very well not be there in nine months. I imagine that's exactly what is going to happen, as well.

But Madeline also doesn't understand that her wanting Abigail to go to college is an issue for her and she's not listening to Abigail. Taking a year off isn't a bad idea, especially if Abigail has no true idea on what she wants to do. Why waste the money on college if it's not what Abigail wants? That could end up meaning money down the drain.

No surprise Nathan is still a dick. 

Now, for the Mary Louise stuff. She is quite a handful, isn't she? It's not hard to see how Perry partially became the guy that he was. Mary Louise is definitely darker than she appears to be. I'm not going to be surprised if she turns out to be an abusive woman. I could see her being the abusive parent. The way she assessed Madeline wasn't entirely wrong, but it proves that she's going to be a dangerous person for the Monterey Five.

I can agree that there's something off about Meryl's performance, but since she is a veteran and talented actress, I can only imagine it's on purpose.

Overall, not a bad premiere. I really need a bit more Renata, even if she is really terrible. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Whoa, Mary Louise is one of those "you need me to tell you about youself" kind of people. And one who uses her older age to pull rank as it were.

I hope we're not going to find out Perry was horribly--possibly sexually--abused by Mary Louise. Leave his character as the scumbag he was and don't try to do a post-mortem soap opera-style redemption.

Celeste better stay woke. Mary Louise creepin'.

Quote

What she's describing sounds like it could easily be pretty shady.

Yeah, that was my immediate take; something like a cover for human trafficking or underground bumfights. Whatever, she probably has no idea what she might really be walking into. Hopefully Maddie will thoroughly check it out beforehand.

[Anela]

2 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

But Zoe is more sensual, which men respond to.

She has that younger "free spirit" thing that some men go for. 

This doesn't need to be a competition between them, though. Different men go for different kinds of women. I think Madeleine's ex took up with his new wife, because he thought she would be easier, "no work" - he doesn't know how to talk to anyone, and doesn't seem to want to. He wants others to do the hard part for him. His new wife has more depth to her, which he might not have been expecting. But I can't remember much about season one. I binged it over a couple of days, two years ago.

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Is this based on research or just personal feelings?

It's pretty common these days for some kids to take a gap year between high school and college.  All of those kids that I've known have then gone on on to college.

Madeleine is a control freak and her daughter seems to have learned at an early age how to push every single one of her buttons.  This is just another example.

All of them? I’m surprised to hear that. And well no, I didn’t delve into research and statistics. Most of the ones I’ve known don’t return to school. It’s hard to go back once you’ve been away from the school structure. Especially if you have a job during that time. You’re making money instead of spending money and not willing to give that up. Of course, working minimum wage may seem great right out of high school, but years later, it ain’t looking so good. And by then it’s not easy to go back to school, it’s a different mindset. And often it’s not possible to go back, depending where your life is at that point. As for taking a year off because the person doesn’t know what they want to take, if they don’t know by then, they most probably won’t know a year later. Some people do fall into a vocation along the way but it’s hard nowadays to get a good paying job without a degree. 

[jmnf19]

4 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

But Zoe is more sensual, which men respond to.

Men like younger women. 😛  Zoe is 20 some odd years younger than Nicole Kidman.

Edited June 12, 2019 by jmnf19

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:01 AM, Dominii said:

Bonnie is just meh. There were several mentions of men getting boners for her in season one, but I just didn't see it. Her personality is milquetoast.

When men are checking out women who are 20 years younger than they are, they're usually not looking at their personalities!

[Anela]

8 hours ago, jmnf19 said:

Men like younger women. 😛  

Not all of them. 🙂 Usually the shallow ones. 

 

Meryl Streep reminded me also of my grandmother. My mum told me that when she was newly married to my dad, dad's mum told her, "My sons can do no wrong." So if there were any problems, she would automatically put them on mum. 

[Eyes High]

I really hope Jane’s surfer coworker isn’t supposed to be a love interest, because he came off as a spectacular dick. Rudely asking if Jane was on the spectrum? Implying that dancing by yourself when you think you’re alone is “psycho” behaviour? Making her feel insecure about her job? Needling her about being one of the Monterey Five? Bastard. 

It’s too bad they wrote out Tom the barista. He was very sweet.

[jmnf19]

4 hours ago, Anela said:

Not all of them. 🙂 Usually the shallow ones. 

Ah, grasshopper...

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:13 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Has anyone noticed that the actress who plays Maddie's bratty teen looks alarmingly like Amber Heard? Is it just me?

Oh yes.  No fault of the actor, but it's so weird and distracting!!  They're both very pretty.

 

On 6/11/2019 at 8:01 AM, Lemons said:

Jane looked like she had a fancier apartment.  That and her expensive brand clothes aren’t being paid with her minimum wage job. 

They really should not have made Jane this sexy hipster with an attention getting haircut.  It doesn't make sense for her character at all.  I don't know why this bothers me, but so many other wild things on the show don't.  It's just all wrong for me.  

 

On 6/11/2019 at 8:16 AM, Melina22 said:

I'm feeling sort of overinvested in the Mary Louise character, maybe because I was raised for part of my life by a Mary Louise. This helps me understand and distrust the character, and at the same time, I appreciate Meryl's complex portrayal, and the way she's nailed this strange and difficult person. 

Nicely put!

 

On 6/11/2019 at 10:14 AM, gibasi said:

I didn't read the spoiler.  I agree the first season was perfect.  I am willing to give the second season a chance but didn't think there was a need.  And I don't want to see the lady detective obsessing over what she thinks was a murder.  

I like the actor, I want her to have a good role - she was Kelly on "King of Queens" and did anyone catch her on "The Fix" this season?  I really liked that show.  But this role on this show is so thankless.  Feel bad for her.  Not a great role.  

On 6/11/2019 at 10:17 AM, ferjy said:

Because more often than not, when they take time off before college, they end up never going. 

I always say that I wish I took a gap year.  I think it's a great idea personally.  I don't see how a child at 16 or even 17 can know what they want to study for the next 4 years let alone pick their career for the rest of their life.

 

20 hours ago, SnarkAttack said:

But Zoe is more sensual, which men respond to.

Age difference of twenty years also.  I agree that Nicole is beautiful, and Celeste is supposed to be too.  But.... hey..... men are men.... 

[JennyMominFL]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I like the actor, I want her to have a good role - she was Kelly on "King of Queens" and did anyone catch her on "The Fix" this season?  I really liked that show.  But this role on this show is so thankless.  Feel bad for her.  Not a great role.  

I always say that I wish I took a gap year.  I think it's a great idea personally.  I don't see how a child at 16 or even 17 can know what they want to study for the next 4 years let alone pick their career for the rest of their life.

Its pretty common in Europe, but seems less common here.

a Wall St Journal article from 2016 says that 90% of students who choose a gap year go to college.

https://www.gapyearassociation.org/data-benefits.php

Edited June 12, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It’s too bad they wrote out Tom the barista. He was very sweet.

It seems to fit the writers' goal, which apparently is to show us that pretty much everyone in Monterey, outside of the main characters and the therapist, is an absolutely horrible person.

[athousandclowns]

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I really hope Jane’s surfer coworker isn’t supposed to be a love interest, because he came off as a spectacular dick. Rudely asking if Jane was on the spectrum? Implying that dancing by yourself when you think you’re alone is “psycho” behaviour? Making her feel insecure about her job? Needling her about being one of the Monterey Five? Bastard. 

It’s too bad they wrote out Tom the barista. He was very sweet.

I was trying to figure out where I’ve seen that actor before and he’s not listed yet. 

Much too young looking. 

[dmc]

Dumb question, but it was self defense, 6 witnesses why not go to the police? 

Ed still creeps me out

Abigail is still annoying, a start up?  Just bypass and pick up unemployment now 

Edited June 12, 2019 by dmc

[izabella]

46 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

I was trying to figure out where I’ve seen that actor before and he’s not listed yet. 

Much too young looking. 

I know him as the eldest son, Ben, on "Big Love."  According to IMDB, he's about to turn 34 in the next couple weeks.  His name is Douglas Smith.

Edited June 12, 2019 by izabella

[janey99]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

I know him as the eldest son, Ben, on "Big Love."  According to IMDB, he's about to turn 34 in the next couple weeks.  His name is Douglas Smith.

He was also in The Alienist a couple of years ago.

[Razzberry]

On 6/12/2019 at 5:04 AM, Eyes High said:

I really hope Jane’s surfer coworker isn’t supposed to be a love interest, because he came off as a spectacular dick. Rudely asking if Jane was on the spectrum? Implying that dancing by yourself when you think you’re alone is “psycho” behaviour? Making her feel insecure about her job? Needling her about being one of the Monterey Five? Bastard. 

It’s too bad they wrote out Tom the barista. He was very sweet.

When Tom booted Renata's husband for starting some shit with Jane he made some threats on his way out, like he knew people that could hurt his business.  I guess he wasn't kidding.

And yeah, that new guy is such a dick.  Just what the show needs. lol  

[jeansheridan]

On 6/11/2019 at 8:16 AM, Melina22 said:

but I noticed that she had nothing negative to say to her grandsons, even after seeing one of them stab the other with a fork. I

She shut them up fast in the car so she does believe in discipline. 

I am enjoying Meryl. I can't wait for her to meet Renata. She's fun and the character has a very lived in feel. But her ability to be overtly unsettling is a delightful surprise. She is at the the age when she doesn't give a rat's ass about being nice. I also like the introduction of an older woman. 

I also see the potential of a cool plotline where Celeste sees the patterns of how Mary Louise raised Perry and how she will need to do things differently. One of her reasons for leaving Perry was to break the pattern. To me that's an interesting topic.

I like Jane's coworker. Tom was fine but maybe the actor took a new project. And as the youngest character I can see Jane recovering the fastest. Her rapist is dead, Ziggy seems better, life is just better for her. So she is happier.

 

I actually liked seeing Madeline respond to being insulted by Mary Louise. Madeline has a fairly healthy ego (except with her own daughter). She is genuinely confident and in your face. Honking at the car, being sharp with the principal, not especially caring about her clients because damn, that view! (the last was unprofessional but funny). 

So I like her calling Mary Louise on her BS and I like her overt sharpness when Mary Louise continued to be insulting. I hope Maddy can help Celeste deal with her because Celeste just doesn't have the skills.

Also did you see Celeste drinking in her praise in the car. "The light shines on your mother ..." She soaked that up. Kidman is a genius at reacting. She is so there in every scene. It's hard to make a passive character interesting.

[Melina22]

26 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I actually liked seeing Madeline respond to being insulted by Mary Louise

Her facial expressions were priceless. I laughed out loud. 

[Rebky]

Who names their child Ziggy?  Is it short for something and I missed it?

Edited June 14, 2019 by Rebky
There and their are two different words

[Penman61]

5 minutes ago, Rebky said:

Who names there child Ziggy?  Is it short for something and I missed it?

IIRC it's strongly implied in S1 that Jane named him in homage to Bowie's persona Ziggy Stardust.

[JenLily]

59 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

She shut them up fast in the car so she does believe in discipline. 

Interestingly though, she wasn't reacting to the noise they were making. She intervened when they ignored/disrespected their mother. I wonder if that was the environment in which she raised Perry, that the mother was to be obeyed at all times. It would go a little ways towards explaining (not justifying!) why he then went on to exert all the control he could over every woman he encountered as an adult, when he was out of her reach.

[ch1]

2 hours ago, Rebky said:

Who names there child Ziggy?  Is it short for something and I missed it?

I could swear last season someone referred to him as Ziegfried.

[jeansheridan]

On 6/12/2019 at 5:04 AM, Eyes High said:

really hope Jane’s surfer coworker isn’t supposed to be a love interest, because he came off as a spectacular dick. Rudely asking if Jane was on the spectrum? Implying that dancing by yourself when you think you’re alone is “psycho” behaviour? Making her feel insecure about her job? Needling her about being one of the Monterey Five? Bastard. 

But isn't all that bluntness the behavior of someone on the spectrum? I found him refreshingly direct. Plus I like his hair. He can stay.

Another disturbing pattern for Celeste is her willingness to put up with a disturbing person for the sake of her boys. The boys like Mary Louise and she's a big help. Just like Perry was a great dad. She's in a trap again.

[Razzberry]

I don't think Abby is talking about deferring college for a year, though it may come to that.  Seems she flat out doesn't want to go.  Since she'll likely be 18 and  can't be forced, it puts Madeline "Because I said so" Mackenzie in a pickle.

I can totally sympathize with Abby, but come on. For-profit homeless housing? How does that work?

Oh, and HBO's new tweaked software prevents me from taking screenshots, which sucks.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Razzberry

[StardustMemories]

On 6/10/2019 at 9:12 AM, teddysmom said:

I was watching the S1 finale before the premiere, and I can't remember if this scene took place in the finale or the premiere in a flashback, but the male detective told the female detective, "it was self defense, case closed", and she said "no they're lying". 

This was not premeditated murder, or even manslaughter, all Bonnie did was push Perry away from Celeste, she didn't think "okay there are some stairs, hopefully he'll fall and crack his head open". 

No jury in the world would convict her. She would get a standing ovation and a parade. 

I don't think it's as cut and dried as you are proposing here.  Bonnie is (by Monterey standards) a middle class woman, and black.  Perry was a very wealthy white man, and up until that night, just about worshiped in the community for his looks, charm, and what appeared from the outside to be a perfect marriage and family life.  Even if all the other wealthy white women backed her up, and they would have, she still would have had many questions to answer (why you? if everyone was seeing this abuse why were you the one who pushed him when you barely knew him? many other people were closer and didn't react to stop him, but you came running out of nowhere, why?).  We even saw in this episode that the school principal and others in the community are not happy with the "Monterey 5" and think they are hiding something.  Not to mention Perry's mother.

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, StardustMemories said:

don't think it's as cut and dried as you are proposing here.  Bonnie is (by Monterey standards) a middle class woman, and black.

I also think the social stigma and scandal of a manslaughter case would hurt them all. Renata is high profile, Jane has no money for a defense and if they were involved in manslaughter charges her rape might become public (I don't know if she did a rape kit or even reported it). 

Right now it's just a horrible accident and gossip. Sure it sounds absurd, but doesn't the idea of these five woman killing a seemingly nice man at a school fundraiser also seem far fetched? An accident seems easier to take. And of course there is poor beaten up Celeste. All the gossips probably love the idea of this perfect marriage being less than ideal. Or love the idea of pitying her. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:30 PM, Penman61 said:

LOL that suspension of disbelief required to buy into "OMG Bonnie boners everywhere, can you even?" and simultaneously pretend that Nicole Kidman and Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern are not fucking goddesses...

This is just like with Allison (Ruth Wilson) on The Affair.  Someone on that forum called it her 'magic vagina'.  And she has that free spirit thing, like Bonnie's character.

On 6/9/2019 at 11:59 PM, memememe76 said:

I cannot remember, but did Jane know Perry was married that night? 

I thought they had made a point last season of saying that the stuff with Jane occurred before he married Celeste.

On 6/10/2019 at 12:20 PM, teddysmom said:

Some of the character development is bordering on cartoonish. 

On 6/10/2019 at 9:37 PM, DakotaLavender said:

Yeah, the acting is great but this show has lost me. It has become a show that already in ep 1 is clearly in love with itself.

I was soooo disappointed with the ep. I had enjoyed season 1 and found the characters to be nuanced in spite of the different over-whelmingness of each character.  But now every  character is too OTT in their own way.  Maybe if only one or two characters were written that way, it would be OK, but with all of them, it just becomes soap-opera-ish rather than HBO quality:

- Look at uninhibited, coping, young Jane dance to music by herself on the beach, with her young hair color and hair style (which are awful, by the way)!  Also, look how principled and wonderful she is for refusing the money (never mind how short-sighted that is in terms of thinking of Ziggy)!  

- No way would Maddie, for whom appearances are very important as well as her reputation, have shushed her customers when she could make big bucks from them.  She was also written as just unremittingly awful in her interactions with Abigail.

- Renata's overbearingness with the teacher, and her in-your-face fabulousity at the photo shoot, just were too much.

- Nathan being just so un-interested in actually caring or understanding about what was really going on with his wife, and how quick he was to slam Ed, just seemed one-dimensional.

- Joseph's wife at the grocery store mentions her new boobs and unhappiness in their marriage within one minute of conversation was just too coincidental and fake.

- The principal's super-snarky comment to Maddie was so stock-villain.

- With Celeste being very aware of the danger with her husband (since she had decided to leave him), and her knowing that her son 'strangled' a female classmate probably based on what he had seen in the home, and her awareness of the significance of the loss of the boys' father, there is no way that she would not have those boys in therapy.

- As has already been said, much about the Mary Louise character is just too much - the screaming, the comment about other schlubby balding guys, saying what she did to Maddie, to name a few.

The only reason I will probably stick with it is because I am curious about what they will do with the season.  But it is not the look-forward-to-it show that it was for me last season.

[Eyes High]

19 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

But isn't all that bluntness the behavior of someone on the spectrum? I found him refreshingly direct. Plus I like his hair. He can stay.

No, there's being on the spectrum, and then there's being an asshole. The two are not the same thing, although TV shows written by uninformed idiots would have you believe otherwise. It's also ableist as fuck to suggest that people on the spectrum are inherently rude assholes. They are not, and there are many, many neurotypical people who act like rude dicks. Surfer dude was being a dick, and that's all there is to it. 

Also, being "direct" is not the same thing as being nasty and rude, although dicks like this fellow often take refuge in the claim that they're just being "refreshingly" blunt (the "I'm just being honest!!!" defence of assholes everywhere). There's nothing "refreshing" or novel about acting like a nasty person and making mean comments. Surfer dude was guilty of rudeness, not directness. But I suppose if he has nice hair, that's all that matters, right?

Edited June 14, 2019 by Eyes High

[FemmyV]

On 6/10/2019 at 11:30 AM, Penman61 said:

LOL that suspension of disbelief required to buy into "OMG Bonnie boners everywhere, can you even?" and simultaneously pretend that Nicole Kidman and Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern are not fucking goddesses...

Think of it like Male Movie Critics' Meg Ryan syndrome in the '80s/'90s: there were tons of insanely beautiful, hot, actresses in amazing roles, but movie critics fell all over themselves for Meg, because she looked like she was actually in their league.

On 6/10/2019 at 9:41 PM, Miss Slay said:

Hated it.

The pacing was off. They need the original director back.

  Reveal spoiler

Without the book, the shows feel like typical television, slowpaced and aimless.

The first season was perfect there was no need for a second.

May be no need, but I'm going to enjoy it anyways.

On 6/11/2019 at 6:35 AM, txhorns79 said:

It's hard to read Mary Louise's motivations.  I'd almost say everything she is doing is purposefully designed to unsettle people to get them to reveal information they'd rather not reveal, but it is not clear.

ML operates by manipulating people, pushing the big Neg buttons to make them feel guilt/pity.

On 6/11/2019 at 12:03 PM, gingerella said:

Calling it right now...Mary Louise is going to find out about the checks going to Ziggy, and she's going to investigate that shit and find out about her dear boy's exploits...

And I'm going to call this: We are going to find out the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

I wonder how far the execs are willing to push this story, in showing us how the dynamics of Perry and Celeste's marriage came to be: ie, anger/punishment/guilt/sex/disgust. Just saying ...

On 6/11/2019 at 3:34 PM, Blakeston said:

There would be no need to bring up self-defense. This was a clear-cut case of defense of others.

I can't even fathom a prosecutor going after a woman who pushed a man away from his wife as he was savagely beating her, with multiple well-respected members of the community being able to confirm what they saw.

ie, involuntary manslaughter is still an offense.

[jeansheridan]

11 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

There's nothing "refreshing" or novel about acting like a nasty person and making mean comments. Su

I didn't read him as being an asshole but I admit I only interact with autistic adults on a casual basis at my job (they visit from a group home specifically for adults with autism). The people who do interact with me are blunt and sometimes unaware of social clues. But my contact IS casual so I am not that informed. 

I am willing to give the show more time to develop his character to see if they get more nuanced.

[topanga]

On 6/10/2019 at 10:13 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Has anyone noticed that the actress who plays Maddie's bratty teen looks alarmingly like Amber Heard? Is it just me?

On 6/11/2019 at 12:40 PM, BetyBee said:

But when they're pushed to go, they often flunk out.  If she doesn't want to go, I'd say let her work for a year and see if she changes her mind.  It actually seems like a realistic storyline to me.  Madeline regrets not going to college, but her daughter has had everything handed to her in life and doesn't appreciate the opportunity.  

Why do teenage girls in adult dramas have to be bratty and insufferable? 

On 6/11/2019 at 1:42 PM, txhorns79 said:

I agree with the stipulation that if daughter is not going to college, she is on her own financially, and should not look to her parents to bail her out if things don't work out as she thinks they will. 

This. If she already knew she didn't want to go to college, why couldn't she sit her parents down BEFORE the college counselor meeting to discuss her plans for next year? Instead, she yells at her parents that she doesn't want to go to college then shrieks at her mother that she's going to work at a start-up. All why lounging in her luxurious bedroom at her dad's house.  

[chocolatine]

9 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I thought they had made a point last season of saying that the stuff with Jane occurred before he married Celeste.

Max and Josh are the same age and Ziggy, so it's most likely that Perry and Celeste were married when he raped Jane.

Spoiler

In the book he was definitely married when he assaulted Jane. Celeste was finally pregnant after multiple rounds of IVF. He couldn't abuse her or have rough sex with her without risking the pregnancy, so he needed another outlet for his rage.

[LibertarianSlut]

On 6/12/2019 at 10:23 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't see how a child at 16 or even 17 can know what they want to study for the next 4 years let alone pick their career for the rest of their life.

That hasn't been my experience.  I went to college straight out of high school, and everyone I knew took gen ed classes for the first two years.  I didn't declare a major until I was a junior, at 20.  And even then, if you plan on going to grad school, your major doesn't really matter.  It wasn't until I was 21 and applying to law schools that I felt I was even beginning to hone in on what I wanted to study.  I had no idea what my career was going to be until I was 25, all while getting a higher education.  

I'm not saying that is the path that Maddie's daughter has to take by a long shot.  I just don't think that going to college straight out of high school means that one is committing to much at all, especially if the person in question is not footing the bill.

On 6/14/2019 at 12:17 AM, StardustMemories said:

Bonnie is (by Monterey standards) a middle class woman

I read Bonnie as upper class.  Maybe not upper-upper class, like Perry, but she appears to be rich.  The median income in Monterey County is less than $35,000, which is from where a jury would be pulled.  The only one who strikes me as not upper class is Jane.

Did anyone catch Mary Louise telling the little boys that fast food is banned in San Fransisco?  Was she just trying to scare them, or is that actually a thing?

[love2lovebadtv]

6 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

That hasn't been my experience.  I went to college straight out of high school, and everyone I knew took gen ed classes for the first two years.  I didn't declare a major until I was a junior, at 20.  And even then, if you plan on going to grad school, your major doesn't really matter.  It wasn't until I was 21 and applying to law schools that I felt I was even beginning to hone in on what I wanted to study.  I had no idea what my career was going to be until I was 25, all while getting a higher education.  

I'm not saying that is the path that Maddie's daughter has to take by a long shot.  I just don't think that going to college straight out of high school means that one is committing to much at all, especially if the person in question is not footing the bill.

I read Bonnie as upper class.  Maybe not upper-upper class, like Perry, but she appears to be rich.  The median income in Monterey County is less than $35,000, which is from where a jury would be pulled.  The only one who strikes me as not upper class is Jane.

Did anyone catch Mary Louise telling the little boys that fast food is banned in San Fransisco?  Was she just trying to scare them, or is that actually a thing?

That's great if you can do that but some professions actually require a specific degree, even for admission to graduate school. If your school didn't offer that major, then you would have had to change schools. Lots of people select colleges partly because of the academic program they're interested in - although Madeline seems to just want her daughter to attend a prestigious college. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 6/12/2019 at 12:16 AM, jmnf19 said:

Men like younger women. 😛  Zoe is 20 some odd years younger than Nicole Kidman.

Not one to say who's pretty or who's not. But I do feel Nicole Kidman looks plastic. She doesn't appear to have full range of motion of her face and neck. I especially noticed it when she sat up alarmingly in the fertility clinic dream. 

[Lady of nod]

On 6/14/2019 at 12:17 AM, StardustMemories said:

I don't think it's as cut and dried as you are proposing here.  Bonnie is (by Monterey standards) a middle class woman, and black.  Perry was a very wealthy white man, and up until that night, just about worshiped in the community for his looks, charm, and what appeared from the outside to be a perfect marriage and family life.  Even if all the other wealthy white women backed her up, and they would have, she still would have had many questions to answer (why you? if everyone was seeing this abuse why were you the one who pushed him when you barely knew him? many other people were closer and didn't react to stop him, but you came running out of nowhere, why?).  We even saw in this episode that the school principal and others in the community are not happy with the "Monterey 5" and think they are hiding something.  Not to mention Perry's mother.

I think you might be onto something, but I also think that it was a spur of the moment decision of Madeleine's to take charge and come up with the "he tripped" story to protect Bonnie. I think everyone was in shock and all thought that was the best thing to do at the time. And now they're stuck with their big little lie. Sure they might have gotten off with the truth, but Bonnie isn't in the same league with these other women so who knows. That female detective seems to have it out for them. I'm wondering why, and if there's a storyline there.

I loved season one - thought it was the best show of last year, and was both excited and a bit worried about a second season. I gotta say though, the first episode didn't disappoint, and bringing in Perry's mom as a pot stirrer is working well (though I already wanna slap her). Glad to see the author was involved with the writing. 

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Lots of people select colleges partly because of the academic program they're interested in - although Madeline seems to just want her daughter to attend a prestigious college. 

Agreed - Madeline is cut from exactly the same cloth as those TV actors who got caught up in that real-life college admissions scam. Hyper ambitious, and her kid's choice of school is all about stroking HER own ego and having bragging rights, not what's best for the kid, or what aligns with her interests.

That being said, her daughter is an insufferable brat who has no concept of the multitude of educational options open to her. I wish TV was more nuanced at writing teenage girl characters, 'cause they aren't all bratty all the time.

[aemom]

I found the college conversation interesting. 

Here in Quebec, school is structured very differently. Elementary is K-6, High school is 7-11. Then you attend Cegep which is at a college. You either take a 2 year pre university program or a 3 year technical program after which you can go a get a job. If you did pre university, then you continue on to University for a 3 year program to get a Bachelor's degree,  unless you are studying engineering which is 4 years. School is also dirt cheap. University tuition will set you back about $1,500 to $2,000 per year and most students live at home. 

Because so many kids actually go to University, the degrees have less clout these days and most graduates are not working in their fields. I'm not sure if that's true in the US as well, but to spend that kind of money when you're not sure what you want to do, seems really wasteful to me.

My elder son decided to take a 3 year technical program in college. The program concludes with an internship at a relevant company and they offered him a full time position.  He'll be 20 soon, and he's working in his field and likes what he's doing. So I don't think that college/university is for everyone. I think Maddy would be better negotiating a plan where they decide what happens next if this job goes south.

Edited June 16, 2019 by aemom
Typo

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, aemom said:

Here in Quebec, school is structured very differently. Elementary is K-6, High school is 7-11. 

I love this. We can get very myopic in America about education. I meet so many stressed out teens who feel pressured into getting into universities. And then the expense! My goddaughter works two jobs and goes to school full-time and her parents have major loans. She is doing well but is exhausted. 

I don't think the daughter is a brat. I think both scenes were written to show them both at their worst. Maddie was pretty horrible this ep. Some of it was satisfying (the shove it line). I saw hints of Tracy Flick which is never a bad thing for me. I guess I trust the writers to smooth it out in later eps. But I do like Maddie's new sharpness. 

I actually like the little scene between Nathan and Ed. Now that Adam Scott doesn't need to be vaguely creepy, he can be the slightly baffled outsider watching this strange world. Plus he is genuinely funny. 

[LibertarianSlut]

16 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

That's great if you can do that but some professions actually require a specific degree, even for admission to graduate school. If your school didn't offer that major, then you would have had to change schools. Lots of people select colleges partly because of the academic program they're interested in - although Madeline seems to just want her daughter to attend a prestigious college. 

I was responding to the contention that going to college out of high school necessitated a child of 16 or 17 deciding on their career at the time of application.    

Sure, there are exceptions to every rule and and there are some grad schools that require certain majors--I don't know why or whether that should or would prevent Maddie's daughter from going to college wherever she can get accepted and just take math, English, science and some electives for two years until she figures out what she wants to do.  That was my original point.  

If Maddie's daughter does decide on a career path, declares a major and changes her mind, she may have to switch schools, but I don't think that's a big deal.  I switched schools, and I acutally picked up credits, didn't lose them.  But even if, worst case scenario, the girl had to switch schools and spend like two more years in school, I don't think her mom would be mad or complain about having to pay the extra tuition.  Those extra years in college don't just go away--it is still getting a higher education.  I think she's making her mom a lot madder by refusing to even go and try.

-----------------------------------------

I'm not saying college is for everyone, or that this young woman has a moral responsibility to go because she is financially fortunate and her mom didn't go to college, etc.  None of that is true.  If she wants to do for-profit homeless housing, great!  I don't know how that would work, but I'm sure there are ways.  Maybe this start-up is looking for big corporations to foot the bill for the housing and pay a fee to the start-up in exchange for splashing their advertising across the place, great publicity, and a huge tax write-off.  I don't think it's a bad idea off the bat without hearing more details.  I would also want more information about why the kid doesn't want to go to college.

So, I'm not saying the daughter, or the mother, is wrong--I see both sides, and I guess that's what makes good TV.  I'm just saying it's a false dichotomy to posit the idea that one either takes a gap year or they are stuck choosing a career at an age when it's difficult to choose a prom theme.

[candle96]

On 6/10/2019 at 12:32 PM, Dominii said:

LOL, this!!! Nicole Kidman has to be one of the most beautiful women on the planet!

Plus the look of her flawless skin at age 50 plus makes me think she has made some deal with the devil. Whoever her plastic surgeon/skin care team is - Bravo. 

(about a decade ago she did some weird stuff to her face, but she seems to have toned it back and now just looks amazing.)

[MaryPatShelby]

On 6/14/2019 at 8:51 PM, chocolatine said:

Max and Josh are the same age and Ziggy, so it's most likely that Perry and Celeste were married when he raped Jane.

  Reveal spoiler

In the book he was definitely married when he assaulted Jane. Celeste was finally pregnant after multiple rounds of IVF. He couldn't abuse her or have rough sex with her without risking the pregnancy, so he needed another outlet for his rage.

I'm confused by this discussion.  It was made clear in this episode: Jane told Celeste that she knew Perry was married when she went back to his place..  And she asked if Celeste hated her sometimes, because she had slept with Perry (unwillingly) but gone there with him willingly knowing he was married. 

[Eri]

I'm late to the game and only just completed the first season recently, just in time to watch the second season.

I think Madeline sees Abigail as her "trophy" kid and a reflection of herself. In an indirect way, I also see it as a "one-up" to Nathan ("Look at the daughter I raised, by myself for over a decade without any support from you, going to a top tier university and making a life for herself. *I* did that Nathan, not you").

Madeline means well but her usual approach will only be met with resistance. I thought it would've been nice if she had compromised with Abigail by capitalising on the foolish website project she attempted last season. Why not support her getting involved with volunteering/interning for Amnesty International or the Peace Corps? Those organisations usually require a minimum of a bachelor's degree but if Abigail truly feels that passionate about human rights then she might consider it. Not only would Madeline not have to worry about her "doing nothing" with her life, but she could also call her out on BS if she made excuses on it.