S02.E01: What Have They Done?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Following first-day-of-school events, Madeline is worried by Bonnie’s behavior and, later, is shocked when Abigail says she doesn’t want to go to college. Mary Louise, Celeste’s mother-in-law, offers her unvarnished assessment of Madeline’s character. Jane learns from her new coworker, Corey, that she’s known in town as one of the “Monterey Five.”

Season premiere, airing Sunday, June 9, 2019.

[mojoween]

The sweaters on this show are tremendous.

I was worried that there was going to be a Game of Thrones issue where once the showrunners left the original source material it was going to be apparent they weren’t as good as the creator, but it was reassuring to know that Liane was involved in this story.

I miss Tom.  So I guess they are going to get their coffee at that tiki hut on the beach now?

So happy to see Calamity Jane back at the therapist.  She is so good at it.

[kieyra]

That was pretty good. I thought season one would be a “one and done” for me, as most of these themes are not stuff that interests me (the high-pressure world of being rich and beautiful and all that), but the cast is undeniably great.

I’d seen the trailer and knew Meryl Streep would be an antagonist, but they’re having her play it as much more of a loose cannon than I expected. 

[Gem 10]

Could someone refresh my memory as to what happened that night on the stairs.  Did Bonnie push him down the stairs intentionally?  If so, why her?

[kieyra]

9 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Could someone refresh my memory as to what happened that night on the stairs.  Did Bonnie push him down the stairs intentionally?  If so, why her?

Yes. IIRC, because she was a past victim of domestic abuse and she snapped. Or it was strongly hinted to be the reason.

Meanwhile: I have to give a shout out to Abigail. I usually hate bratty teens, but that actress is like a bratty teen prodigy (she played a similar character on Halt and Catch Fire). And despite being a bratty teen, she’s making somewhat reasonable points as an angry gen-Z.

[formerlyfreedom]

Per the Book Spoilers pinned mod note in the main forum, Book Talk is still off limits in episode talk, and posts will be removed. Thank you.

[One Imaginary Girl]

So, is Mary Louise going to fall down some stairs by the end of the season? I wouldn't mind, but really I suspect she's going to turn out more layered than she appears so far.

[Gem 10]

3 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Yes. IIRC, because she was a past victim of domestic abuse and she snapped. Or it was strongly hinted to be the reason.

Meanwhile: I have to give a shout out to Abigail. I usually hate bratty teens, but that actress is like a bratty teen prodigy (she played a similar character on Halt and Catch Fire). And despite being a bratty teen, she’s making somewhat reasonable points as an angry gen-Z.

Thanks so much.  Now I remember.  It was about abuse.  Geeze, she has to live with that, until the end of the season of course.

[icol]

After meeting Mary Louise, not surprised Perry ended up being an egotistical man. She adores him and puts him in a pedestal that enabled him and probably his actions a lot. 

Love the season opener. And I gasped with Mary Louise's final line delivery. That was an Emmy trophy waiting to be delivered to her.

[Razzberry]

That was awesome.  Loving Streep and her passive-aggressive snark, and good to see the ghost of Skarsgard still haunting the place.  Jane needs to get over not accepting child support payments and put that money away for Ziggy.

[JakeyJokes]

6 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

That was awesome.  Loving Streep and her passive-aggressive snark, and good to see the ghost of Skarsgard still haunting the place.  Jane needs to get over not accepting child support payments and put that money away for Ziggy.

Right? She could at least put it in a trust and not let him have it until he's 18 or 21.

Abigail eschewing college in favor of a start-up might be the Silicon Valley version of an NYC or L.A. kid wanting to go into show business instead of college. Abigail made good points, but I can't help but think that pissing off and hurting Madeleine is her primary motivation over anything else.

Nathan is a TOOL.

I went to a somewhat affluent public high school that bordered a major city. My friends had moms like Renata and my brother works for the school and deals with them from time to time, and I encounter them often when working customer service. Laura Dern is SO SCARY REAL in this part.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm glad it didn't seem like a different show.  It seems like the same show, except now Meryl Streep is here.

[ECM1231]

Meryl is sublime. That is all.❤

[memememe76]

That was great.

I cannot remember, but did Jane know Perry was married that night? 

It appears that Perry's death is being reported as an accident, but his abusive behaviour has been hidden. Would the police do that? 

I cannot wait to see Bonnie scenes with Jane and Celeste.

[Ms Blue Jay]

7 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

That was great.

I cannot remember, but did Jane know Perry was married that night? 

It seems like Jane was claiming to Celeste that she did know.  But I didn't remember that detail from Season 1.

[Irlandesa]

10 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

It appears that Perry's death is being reported as an accident, but his abusive behaviour has been hidden. Would the police do that? 

I don't know that the police knew.  I think that's why Bonnie was upset.  She thinks, had the whole truth come out, she would have been exonerated.  But instead, they went with a lie which implicates her the most.

[scrb]

Did they claim Perry fell at the end of S1?

Or is it something they've come up with in the interim?

I noticed Jean Marc Vallee is not the director for this season, but still credited as an executive producer for this season.  Maybe he wasn't fully on board with doing a second season?

This first episode seemed like it was trying to give the dreamy feel that Vallee gave to S1 but it wasn't quite the same.  Vallee put in just the right amount of these atmospheric scenes but in this episode, several characters are staring out into the ocean with different songs playing.

Jane is dancing by the ocean, lost in her earphones.

My recollection is that the memories and daydreams that the characters went relived in S1, particularly Jane, were silent.  Jane seems a little too happy compared to the other women, though she seems to have a good gig.

Fact that they're seen as the Monterey Five suggests the community doesn't believe their story.  I think their lawyers might advise them to give different statements.  They really don't have anything to feel guilty over, it was pure self-defense.

But for dramatic reasons, Mary Louise seems like the perfect character to pick over the residual guilt these characters have.

[Razzberry]

You just know Steep is gonna be stirring the pot about her sainted son's death.  The Monterey 5 needs to hang together on this one.

Would love to see some Felicity Huffman type of bribing going on for Abigail.  Wouldn't put it past any of these helicopter parents, they seem a little overly competitive. 

And yes, Nathan is such a tool. Doesn't he work?

[chocolatine]

As much as I hated the Maddie/Joseph affair last season, Ed running into Joseph's wife and her new boobs at the grocery store was all kinds of awesome. 

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think Meryl Streep needs to dial it down a notch. Her performance in this episode felt too much like an Emmy reel, all I saw was Meryl Streep acting instead of an organic portrayal of a mother grieving her child. Also, I hope Mary Louise finds out about Perry's abusive ways ASAP. If Celeste has to keep pretending that Perry was the perfect husband, she'll be stuck in the same lie she was before he died.

I noticed that Jane and Ziggy are living in a different place from last year. Is it just me, or does their new place look like the apartment Celeste rented when she was trying to leave Perry last season? 

I think Abigail is still a brat, but the way she was talking up the stupid startup to Maddie was completely realistic - that's how every startup founder and early-stage employee in the Bay Area talks. That startup will most likely be out of business by the time Abigail graduates high school.

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

As much as I hated the Maddie/Joseph affair last season, Ed running into Joseph's wife and her new boobs at the grocery store was all kinds of awesome. 

LOL!  Thank you!  I never realized that was Joseph's wife!

[Cheezwiz]

This looks good so far. I had completely forgotten about Maddie having an affair last season, so thanks for that reminder.

1 hour ago, JakeyJokes said:

I went to a somewhat affluent public high school that bordered a major city. My friends had moms like Renata and my brother works for the school and deals with them from time to time, and I encounter them often when working customer service. Laura Dern is SO SCARY REAL in this part.

Hell yes! Nothing worse than dealing with ultra-competitive parents with lots of money. Ugh.

Mary Louise is already a piece of work. I'm curious to know if Perry's abusive behavior will be revealed to her and if she'll even believe it. Meryl's doing great work - she's making my skin crawl already.

I'm hoping they don't spend an inordinate amount of time on Maddie's bratty teenage daughter - she feels more like a plot-device to create additional stress rather than a real teenager.

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't know that the police knew.  I think that's why Bonnie was upset.  She thinks, had the whole truth come out, she would have been exonerated.  But instead, they went with a lie which implicates her the most.

I'm really feeling bad for Bonnie.

[izabella]

32 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Also, I hope Mary Louise finds out about Perry's abusive ways ASAP. If Celeste has to keep pretending that Perry was the perfect husband, she'll be stuck in the same lie she was before he died.

I suspect the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and Perry learned how to manipulate and abuse from his mother (and his father?).  Mary Louise is full of anger, just like her son was.

Has Celeste taken her sons to a child therapist?  They lost their father, so that alone would be enough.  But, also, wasn't one of the boys the one who strangled Laura Dern's daughter?

Edited June 10, 2019 by izabella

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

But, also, wasn't one of the boys the one who strangled Laura Dern's daughter?

Yes, that was the central mystery of last season. It was one of Celeste's sons (not sure which one) that had been biting and choking Laura Dern's daughter Amabelle. Learned from observing at home.

And yes those kids need psychiatric help stat - they are still being aggressive.

[Corgi-ears]

I can't believe the premiere left unanswered last season's huge cliffhanger: namely, if Jane ever hooked up with Tom, the Coffee Shop Guy That Maddie Thought Was Gay. 

For that matter, what happened to that old coffee place? What is this new coffee shanty that smells like weed? Somebody hold me.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Corgi-ears

[mojoween]

Tom was Jane’s date to the trivia night in last season’s final episode but I guess that was that.

I’m concerned for Celeste because there is no proof of Perry’s abuse, is there?  The only hospital visit I can recall is for Perry’s damaged urethra but the only one who knows about the abuse is her therapist. She told Celeste to get documentation but it doesn’t seem like she has that.

Mary Louise doesn’t seem like the type of woman who will just take Celeste's word for it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

thThis show reminded me that one of the reasons I'm glad I don't have kids is that I could not handle dealing with the other parents or the school situation. Watching the principal force a room of adults to sing that stupid otter song was so painful.

I had to laugh that even though Renata is now friends with the other women, she is still a huge pain in the ass. That quick speech to Amabella's new teacher about how she has a genius IQ and she expects him to pay special attention to her and also make sure she isn't bullied or choked this year made me feel so sorry for that poor guy. He has no idea what he's in for. I did love her red superhero power suit for the photo shoot though. She is definitely not shy.

I know that I should feel a little bad for Nathan because Bonnie is clearly shutting him out. But then Nathan opens his mouth and any tiny bit of sympathy I have for his situation disappears. He accused Ed of being snide simply because Ed very logically pointed out that maybe the best way for Nathan to get through to his wife is NOT by asking his ex-wife's new husband to talk to his her for him. It's not like Ed and Bonnie are great friends and that's why Nathan is asking Ed to talk to her. Nathan just has no idea how to communicate with his wife so he's desperate enough to ask a man who he openly despises to help him. Part of me wants to give Nathan a little credit for admitting he needs help, but again, that feeling disappeared when Nathan started talking again. He couldn't even ask Ed for help without insulting Maddie and being a dick again. Ugh, he's exhausting.

Sorry, Madeline, but a 3.8 GPA and a 1350 SAT means Abigail is not going to get into a top tier school so even if she wanted to go to college, Stanford and Princeton are very unlikely. As for this job she was offered, what kind of startup would hire a high school graduate with no experience in anything?

One thing this show is doing well is reminding us how engrained it is for women to blame themselves. Celeste blames herself for Perry's death, thinking that if she had told him she was leaving him another night then he would still be alive. Even if that were true, how can she believe that Perry would have just let her walk away? If he were still alive, he would be making her life hell. Meanwhile, Jane still blames herself for being raped by Perry.

Everyone on this damn show needs to be in therapy. I'm glad that Celeste went back to he awesome therapist, but she needs to find one for her kids. They have lived in a violent home, one of them bit/choked/bullied/threatened Amabella, their dad died recently, and they are constantly hitting each other. They could definitely use some professional help.

If Jane doesn't want to spend the money that Celeste is giving her, that's fine, but that doesn't mean she should just let the checks go uncashed. It's money for Ziggy so she should just set up a trust for him and deposit all the checks there. Then she won't have to feel guilty for spending what she sees as tainted blood money but Ziggy can have his college paid for or have a down payment for a house when he's an adult.

Mary Louise thinks the sun shines out of Perry's ass so I think that if Celeste tells her he was abusive, his mother is not going to accept or believe that her perfect little angel was capable of doing such a thing. I just hope that if Celeste tells her, Mary Louise won't use that as an excuse to pull that thread and accuse Celeste of killing precious Perry. If it comes to that, the other members of the Monterey Five are going to have to keep Mary Louise away from Bonnie who seems like she's ready to crack.

Edited June 10, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Armchair Critic]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

I suspect the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and Perry learned how to manipulate and abuse from his mother (and his father?).  Mary Louise is full of anger, just like her son was.

I think so too. I have read no spoilers but am assuming that Perry either learned his wicked ways from his mother or she was adept at covering for his father. Either way she knows what her son was.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Armchair Critic

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, scrb said:

Fact that they're seen as the Monterey Five suggests the community doesn't believe their story.  I think their lawyers might advise them to give different statements.  They really don't have anything to feel guilty over, it was pure self-defense.

They lied.  Bonnie was right that they should have told what really happened from the start.  Shoot, Celeste probably would have paid for her attorney.  There were enough witnesses to see that Bonnie was defending her friend.

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Ed running into Joseph's wife and her new boobs at the grocery store was all kinds of awesome. 

Ohhh!  That's who that was!  The expression on his face was hilarious.  "Don'tlookattheboobs,don'tlookattheboobs..."

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Also, I hope Mary Louise finds out about Perry's abusive ways ASAP. If Celeste has to keep pretending that Perry was the perfect husband, she'll be stuck in the same lie she was before he died.

I have a feeling Mary Louise was (and continues to be) one of those "oh, no, not my child!" mothers who deny that their precious angel ever did anything wrong.  I know they type.

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Tom was Jane’s date to the trivia night in last season’s final episode but I guess that was that.

Ha!  After that fiasco he probably moved to Boston.

[humbleopinion]

The episode's music was so good I got distracted and need to watch the episode again...

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a27820603/big-little-lies-season-2-soundtrack-music-list/

Harvest Moon just fits this show so well.....

[hoodooznoodooz]

Hee! [paraphrasing:] “I’m kicking myself for telling Jane her bangs look good.”

Edited June 10, 2019 by hoodooznoodooz

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mary Louise thinks the sun shines out of Perry's ass so I think that if Celeste tells her he was abusive, his mother is not going to accept or believe that her perfect little angel was capable of doing such a thing. 

Yes, or even that Celeste provoked him or something.

[teddysmom]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Her performance in this episode felt too much like an Emmy reel, all I saw was Meryl Streep acting instead of an organic portrayal of a mother grieving her child.

 I think there was abuse in Perry's family history, either he saw his father hit his mother, or Mary Louise beat him.  She does seem a little over the top, but hopefully we'll get a flashback to explain things.

I didn't see a show spoiler thread, this has been in all the previews but I'll hide it just in case.

Spoiler

Mary Louise confronts Celeste with "you were going to leave him, you left that out, didn't you".  So how does she know that unless Perry called her from the car at the gala.  Seriously? Your wife tells you she's leaving becos you beat the shit out of her and you call Mommy? 

I have to say I have a soft spot for Skarsgaard. I have seen him on talk shows and he's so sweet and self effacing,  and he was fantastic in Little Drummer Girl on AMC.  

Edited June 10, 2019 by teddysmom

[AttackTurtle]

I enjoyed the first episode.  

Meryl Streep is obviously an amazing actress and this is no exception; however last year, I thought Nicole Kidman ran circles around every other actor on the show and I'm curious to see if she is able to bring it again this year or if they're all going to fall under Meryl's shadow.  

I can't help but love Madeline.  I have this feeling that this character isn't a huge stretch for Reese Witherspoon.  I love Reese, but I can totally see Madeline having the same temper tantrum that Reese did when she and her husband were pulled over a few years ago.  

If I recall, despite the lie about him falling, the ladies did tell the police that Perry was beating the shit out of Celeste?  If his mom knows this and is still praising him in front of her, I'd be like, get the fuck out of my house.  (sorry for the language). 

[teddysmom]

5 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

If I recall, despite the lie about him falling, the ladies did tell the police that Perry was beating the shit out of Celeste?  If his mom knows this and is still praising him in front of her, I'd be like, get the fuck out of my house.  (sorry for the language). 

I was watching the S1 finale before the premiere, and I can't remember if this scene took place in the finale or the premiere in a flashback, but the male detective told the female detective, "it was self defense, case closed", and she said "no they're lying". 

This was not premeditated murder, or even manslaughter, all Bonnie did was push Perry away from Celeste, she didn't think "okay there are some stairs, hopefully he'll fall and crack his head open". 

No jury in the world would convict her. She would get a standing ovation and a parade. 

[Pop Tart]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't know that the police knew.  I think that's why Bonnie was upset.  She thinks, had the whole truth come out, she would have been exonerated.  But instead, they went with a lie which implicates her the most.

6 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

If I recall, despite the lie about him falling, the ladies did tell the police that Perry was beating the shit out of Celeste?  If his mom knows this and is still praising him in front of her, I'd be like, get the fuck out of my house.  (sorry for the language). 

Yes and Celeste had bruising and lacerations on her face - and I'd think they would have gotten photos of her stomach and ribs too as several of the women told the police that Perry was kicking her. And I'd think enough people saw her at the party all beat up so that it would at least be known that on that night Perry was beating her, even if no one knows about any other time he beat her.

With the Monterrey Five their big mistake is similar to someone who has hit and run. Often the initial act in a hit and run (the hit) might not be criminal or only minimally so, like inattentive driving or speeding or something, so that the person who killed someone with their car would be able to go on with their life. But if they run, that becomes the much bigger crime. That's what has happened here. If they'd told the truth in the moment then perhaps Bonnie might have been charged with some kind of manslaughter, perhaps, but would probably have not served any time, a deal worked out because she did it in defense of Celeste and the other women. But now they've all made it worse and made it seem like something far more nefarious happened because they lied. And they all could be charged at this point with obstructing justice or accessory after the fact or something.

I do believe it's possible that Mary Louise might not know the extent of what happened. The death has been explained as an accidental fall - at least for now - by the police. And even though the detectives suspect something more, they're probably clamping down on any more details getting out as they continue to pursue the matter. Its not unusual for it to seem like the police are doing nothing at all because they don't announce what's going on, even as they're actively working through a case day by day.

[AttackTurtle]

The police indicated they assumed that Celeste pushed him, but that it would be self defense and an involuntary manslaughter case at worst and she’d be looking at a year...

As a criminal lawyer, I say bullshit.  First it’s not up to the police to prosecute.  No prosecutor would pursue this case.  There were multiple witnesses whom he also assaulted.   Celeste has a therapist, who would vouch for the abuse, and at least one of her witnesses is a pretty influential woman (Laura Dern’s character).  No one would’ve been charged.  

That it was Bonnie really doesn’t change it for me, she didn’t know she’d kill him, her actions in no way exceeded what he was doing to all of the ladies.  

[BeatrixK]

I am constantly amazed by Streep and her ability to turn in a WOW -- in this case...she managed to make me loathe a grieving old lady.  Srsly, girl....how you manage that?!?!

[Carolina Girl]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Celeste blames herself for Perry's death, thinking that if she had told him she was leaving him another night then he would still be alive.

Except technically she DIDN'T tell him - he intercepted the phone call from the landlord and he trapped her in the car.  She didn't have a lot of options.  

I don't know, I just can't think that the police, after hearing the women talk about the abuse Perry was inflicting on Celeste and Jane, and the obvious physical evidence of same, are still hanging on to this like a dog on a bone.   I can't see either a police department or the D.A.'s office wasting resources on it.  

And excuse me, Mr. Principal Jackass with the Otter Song.  You plied the parents with alcohol at a fundraiser, and it's MADELINE'S fault that the fundraiser was ruined?  

Oh, and you other judgey parents can stick it up your collective asses.  

[Wickedeve]

Quote

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think Meryl Streep needs to dial it down a notch. Her performance in this episode felt too much like an Emmy reel, all I saw was Meryl Streep acting instead of an organic portrayal of a mother grieving her child.

I'm totally on board with this unpopular opinion 😬 For me, it was as if Meryl Streep was in her own show. Everything from the fake teeth to her affected acting took me out of every scene she was in, and that was surprising. I was even thinking that she should watch Nicole Kidman and Robin Weigert's scenes for a master class in how to bring it on this show.

[teddysmom]

6 minutes ago, Wickedeve said:

I was even thinking that she should watch Nicole Kidman and Robin Weigert's scenes for a master class in how to bring it on this show.

These scenes are the best of the show. They are amazing together.  Last season when she explained to Celeste how Perry would fight custody was brilliant. "Don't you always tell everyone how great he is? So which is it?"

I don't understand how if a woman is being kicked by her husband, and he has hit her, and another woman shoves him to get him away from the victim, and he accidentally falls and dies, that is considered a "crime".  There was no intent to hurt him, just to stop him.   Celeste needs to help Bonnie get a lawyer and clear this up. 

The lawyer could also make a case for the "cover up", I pushed him to make him stop, and he fell. She didn't push him to make him fall.  Excuse me, but if Perry wasn't beating the shit out of Celeste, he'd still be alive.  I don't recall Bonnie having some big plan to shove him down a flight of stairs just because. 

What was the deal with Nathan asking Adam Scott (forgot his character) to talk to Bonnie? JFC. 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, AttackTurtle said:

The police indicated they assumed that Celeste pushed him, but that it would be self defense and an involuntary manslaughter case at worst and she’d be looking at a year...

As a criminal lawyer, I say bullshit.  First it’s not up to the police to prosecute.  No prosecutor would pursue this case.  There were multiple witnesses whom he also assaulted.   Celeste has a therapist, who would vouch for the abuse, and at least one of her witnesses is a pretty influential woman (Laura Dern’s character).  No one would’ve been charged.  

That it was Bonnie really doesn’t change it for me, she didn’t know she’d kill him, her actions in no way exceeded what he was doing to all of the ladies.  

Though maybe people may find it incredible that little Bonnie was able to push Perry, who's a giant, over the ledge, no matter how much she took him by surprise.

[Dominii]

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I think Meryl Streep needs to dial it down a notch.

I totally agree. That scream, while jarringly horrible (and quite amusing), was way too over-the-top. Celeste should have thrown her out of the house right then, but Celeste is so passive... If Mary Louise had screamed like that in Renata or Madeline's homes, she would have been crying into her motel room pillow that very same night.

I hope that Mary Louise doesn't become a caricature of a "crazy mother." We have enough of those stereotypes in film and television.

Here are a few other wishes:

1. That Celeste grows some balls and takes care of her life and her children's mental health.  

2. That Madeline treats her husband better, and, even more that that, tells her teen daughter that of course she can leave home after high school and skip college. If she does that, she will not be able to move back home or receive financial assistance from her family ever again. If and when she decides to go to college later on, she has to foot the bill herself.

3. That Renata, well, there's no way Renata is going to change. She's the best character on the show, IMO, but Holy God, can you imagine having somebody like that in your life?

4. That they would change Amabella's name to Annabella. With that kind of pretentious and ugly name, it's no wonder she was bullied!

5. Bonnie is just meh. There were several mentions of men getting boners for her in season one, but I just didn't see it. Her personality is milquetoast. Pump-up her character a bit, please. ~Maybe it's just Zoe's acting style.~

6. Jane leaves me cold too. I like her better than Bonnie, but not much. Make her change her hairstyle (which is ghastly) and progress in her career and personal life. Maybe she really is on the spectrum, which actually explains a lot!            

[MaggieG]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

thThis show reminded me that one of the reasons I'm glad I don't have kids is that I could not handle dealing with the other parents or the school situation. Watching the principal force a room of adults to sing that stupid otter song was so painful.

I had to laugh that even though Renata is now friends with the other women, she is still a huge pain in the ass. That quick speech to Amabella's new teacher about how she has a genius IQ and she expects him to pay special attention to her and also make sure she isn't bullied or choked this year made me feel so sorry for that poor guy. He has no idea what he's in for. I did love her red superhero power suit for the photo shoot though. She is definitely not shy.

I know that I should feel a little bad for Nathan because Bonnie is clearly shutting him out. But then Nathan opens his mouth and any tiny bit of sympathy I have for his situation disappears. He accused Ed of being snide simply because Ed very logically pointed out that maybe the best way for Nathan to get through to his wife is NOT by asking his ex-wife's new husband to talk to his her for him. It's not like Ed and Bonnie are great friends and that's why Nathan is asking Ed to talk to her. Nathan just has no idea how to communicate with his wife so he's desperate enough to ask a man who he openly despises to help him. Part of me wants to give Nathan a little credit for admitting he needs help, but again, that feeling disappeared when Nathan started talking again. He couldn't even ask Ed for help without insulting Maddie and being a dick again. Ugh, he's exhausting.

Sorry, Madeline, but a 3.8 GPA and a 1350 SAT means Abigail is not going to get into a top tier school so even if she wanted to go to college, Stanford and Princeton are very unlikely. As for this job she was offered, what kind of startup would hire a high school graduate with no experience in anything?

One thing this show is doing well is reminding us how engrained it is for women to blame themselves. Celeste blames herself for Perry's death, thinking that if she had told him she was leaving him another night then he would still be alive. Even if that were true, how can she believe that Perry would have just let her walk away? If he were still alive, he would be making her life hell. Meanwhile, Jane still blames herself for being raped by Perry.

Everyone on this damn show needs to be in therapy. I'm glad that Celeste went back to he awesome therapist, but she needs to find one for her kids. They have lived in a violent home, one of them bit/choked/bullied/threatened Amabella, their dad died recently, and they are constantly hitting each other. They could definitely use some professional help.

If Jane doesn't want to spend the money that Celeste is giving her, that's fine, but that doesn't mean she should just let the checks go uncashed. It's money for Ziggy so she should just set up a trust for him and deposit all the checks there. Then she won't have to feel guilty for spending what she sees as tainted blood money but Ziggy can have his college paid for or have a down payment for a house when he's an adult.

Mary Louise thinks the sun shines out of Perry's ass so I think that if Celeste tells her he was abusive, his mother is not going to accept or believe that her perfect little angel was capable of doing such a thing. I just hope that if Celeste tells her, Mary Louise won't use that as an excuse to pull that thread and accuse Celeste of killing precious Perry. If it comes to that, the other members of the Monterey Five are going to have to keep Mary Louise away from Bonnie who seems like she's ready to crack.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, but love the bolded part. I love what Laura Dern brings to Renata. That poor teacher looked like deer caught in the headlights. 

[teddysmom]

4 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Sorry, Madeline, but a 3.8 GPA and a 1350 SAT means Abigail is not going to get into a top tier school so even if she wanted to go to college, Stanford and Princeton are very unlikely. As for this job she was offered, what kind of startup would hire a high school graduate with no experience in anything?

That's what I thought, too!!!   Yes she'd be accepted at a state university  but 3.8 and 1350 is not Stanford material by a long shot.  

If Madeline was my real estate agent I'd tell her to shove her listing up her ass. You do not take personal phone calls while you're with a client showing a house, unless the phone call is your kid is in the ER.  She was gossiping about Jane's bangs and whining about Bonnie being "out of it".  And you sure as fuck don't tell the client to "hold on a minute I AM ON THE PHONE". 

Not liking her very much this season. 

13 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I know that I should feel a little bad for Nathan because Bonnie is clearly shutting him out. But then Nathan opens his mouth and any tiny bit of sympathy I have for his situation disappears. He accused Ed of being snide simply because Ed very logically pointed out that maybe the best way for Nathan to get through to his wife is NOT by asking his ex-wife's new husband to talk to his her for him. It's not like Ed and Bonnie are great friends and that's why Nathan is asking Ed to talk to her. Nathan just has no idea how to communicate with his wife so he's desperate enough to ask a man who he openly despises to help him. Part of me wants to give Nathan a little credit for admitting he needs help, but again, that feeling disappeared when Nathan started talking again. He couldn't even ask Ed for help without insulting Maddie and being a dick again. Ugh, he's exhausting.

Agree he is such an asshole.  Some of the character development is bordering on cartoonish. Tori getting boobs so no one would look at her nose?   That'll show Joseph. 

[Penman61]

24 minutes ago, Dominii said:

4. That they would change Amabella's name to Annabella. With that kind of pretentious and ugly name, it's no wonder she was bullied!

It almost sounds like you're blaming the victim and I SUPPORT YOU 100%. It's just the kind of pretentious "different" name you'd expect Renata to inflict on her child.

26 minutes ago, Dominii said:

5. Bonnie is just meh. There were several mentions of men getting boners for her in season one, but I just didn't see it. Her personality is milquetoast. Pump-up her character a bit, please. ~Maybe it's just Zoe's acting style.~

LOL that suspension of disbelief required to buy into "OMG Bonnie boners everywhere, can you even?" and simultaneously pretend that Nicole Kidman and Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern are not fucking goddesses...

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I, for one, think Meryl Streep is doing a fantastic job. It's amazing to me that someone can inhabit a character so thoroughly that all you're left thinking is Man, that Mary Louise is a real piece of work. I wonder if her husband, Perry's father was the same psychopath Perry was.

Um, Jane? You should set up an account for Ziggy and let HIM decide what he wants to do with the money when he's old enough. Jane is a victim of Perry but so is Ziggy. He got a rapist for a father and if that father happened to be rich, then like Celeste said, he's entitled to some of the money.

I do wish there had been a reason for these women to lie about what happened. If they had been poor, I could see it but they are rich enough not to worry about being falsely imprisoned. I guess we just have to go with it now that they have lied and are in trouble more for the cover-up. I'm also want to know why that detective is so hell-bent on uncovering the truth. Perry clearly was beating Celeste as she had fresh cuts and bruises. Why not let it go like the other detective said? It was self defense and who cares what they are lying about? It could be panic or a dirty secret they want to keep in their small community.

So far I like Tom better than the new guy Jane works with. I'm not sure what direction they are going with him.

Abigail is right that college is expensive but her parents can definitely afford it so I don't think that's a valid reason for her not to go. I can see why she's against it because Madeline reeeeaaaally pressures her into trying to get into a top tier school. It's pretty controlling. It's one thing if your kid has the motivation to go for a top tier school but if they're not into it it really shouldn't be that big a deal. It's ridiculously difficult to get into those schools unless you are super rich.

[Dminches]

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

I don't understand how if a woman is being kicked by her husband, and he has hit her, and another woman shoves him to get him away from the victim, and he accidentally falls and dies, that is considered a "crime".  There was no intent to hurt him, just to stop him.   Celeste needs to help Bonnie get a lawyer and clear this up. 

I don't think that would be a crime.  The only "crime" is the Monterey 5 all agreeing to lie about it.  If they told the truth the police would have closed the case by now.

[teddysmom]

21 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Abigail is right that college is expensive but her parents can definitely afford it so I don't think that's a valid reason for her not to go. I can see why she's against it because Madeline reeeeaaaally pressures her into trying to get into a top tier school. It's pretty controlling. It's one thing if your kid has the motivation to go for a top tier school but if they're not into it it really shouldn't be that big a deal. It's ridiculously difficult to get into those schools unless you are super rich.

Madeline should respect her daughter's wishes. She wants to work now, why not let her? A lot of kids need that year out of the education environment, to determine what field they want to go into. 

[Dominii]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

LOL that suspension of disbelief required to buy into "OMG Bonnie boners everywhere, can you even?" and simultaneously pretend that Nicole Kidman and Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern are not fucking goddesses... 

LOL, this!!! Nicole Kidman has to be one of the most beautiful women on the planet!

[Haleth]

21 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Madeline should respect her daughter's wishes. She wants to work now, why not let her? A lot of kids need that year out of the education environment, to determine what field they want to go into. 

Plus if she works for a year or 2 at a npo that assists the homeless it will help with that college application. 😊

Madeline has the picture in her head of what the ideal family looks like, and in that pic the 18yo child goes to college. 

I wonder how much we'll see of the young actor who plays Ziggy since he's gone on to bigger things. I know we only caught a glimpse in this episode.